Justice Watch Support JW "John and Fleet" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... John and Fleet, Suhila, 13:22:22, 3/18/2001 which part?, v_p, 13:43:16, 3/18/2001, (#1) V_P, Suhila, 13:50:17, 3/18/2001, (#4) about Burke's bed, mary99, 13:45:21, 3/18/2001, (#2) Interesting, janphi, 13:49:42, 3/18/2001, (#3) Janphi, Ginja, 15:48:03, 3/18/2001, (#5) help, Texan, 21:30:28, 3/18/2001, (#6) Thanks Janphi, Gemini, 22:40:38, 3/18/2001, (#7) It sounds, Holly, 05:45:23, 3/19/2001, (#8) Yea but...., Bets, 08:43:36, 3/19/2001, (#9) The bed, janab, 14:24:19, 3/19/2001, (#10) making the bed, Edie Pratt, 19:20:49, 3/19/2001, (#11) Eyes wide open, mary99, 00:27:41, 3/21/2001, (#12) Mary 99, janphi, 12:23:37, 3/21/2001, (#19) Just Asking..., Dunvegan, 00:52:07, 3/21/2001, (#13) Hi Dunvegan, janphi, 12:56:05, 3/21/2001, (#21) One thing for sure, darby, 07:10:08, 3/21/2001, (#14) Darby, gaiabetsy, 07:17:25, 3/21/2001, (#15) gaiabetsy, darby, 07:47:53, 3/21/2001, (#16) Hi darby, janphi, 13:34:41, 3/21/2001, (#23) there ARE some secrets there..., mary99, 08:54:18, 3/21/2001, (#17) ginja,, listener, 11:45:37, 3/21/2001, (#18) -, luvsflowers, 12:36:34, 3/21/2001, (#20) Hi, luvsflowers, janphi, 12:59:14, 3/21/2001, (#22) Oil Bidness Questions, janphi, 14:41:40, 3/21/2001, (#26) janphi, mary99, 14:09:43, 3/21/2001, (#25) Well, Mary99, I'm not sure, janphi, 15:07:30, 3/21/2001, (#27) janphi, fly, 13:50:29, 3/21/2001, (#24) russian mafia??, luvsflowers, 15:21:59, 3/21/2001, (#28) Fleet Oil Company, janphi, 18:30:03, 3/21/2001, (#31) even speaking Furbish, mary99, 17:20:29, 3/21/2001, (#29) luvsflowers and janphi , darby, 18:20:57, 3/21/2001, (#30) I saw the thread, RiverRat, 19:00:46, 3/21/2001, (#33) darby and janphi, mary99, 18:47:48, 3/21/2001, (#32) Well, darby, janphi, 08:54:41, 3/22/2001, (#42) mary99, luvsflowers, 06:17:18, 3/22/2001, (#34) Luvs, momo, 08:24:39, 3/22/2001, (#38) Oh well..., mary99, 06:43:48, 3/22/2001, (#35) Try this, janphi, 07:23:11, 3/22/2001, (#36) Thanks, Janphi, mary99, 07:38:48, 3/22/2001, (#37) Susan Stine - Grayson, janphi, 08:38:35, 3/22/2001, (#39) Hey, janphi!, Holly, 08:41:01, 3/22/2001, (#40) Janphi, momo, 08:45:08, 3/22/2001, (#41) momo, luvsflowers, 09:31:00, 3/22/2001, (#43) No problem, janphi, 10:38:04, 3/22/2001, (#44) That was me..., Ayeka, 12:13:37, 3/22/2001, (#45) So, who knows about, gaiabetsy, 06:24:37, 3/23/2001, (#46) Texas...., rose, 11:28:06, 3/23/2001, (#48) Texas trip, Ayeka, 11:27:14, 3/23/2001, (#47) ................................................................... "John and Fleet" Posted by Suhila on 13:22:22 3/18/2001 Take a look over at that swampy place and read the thread "John and Fleet", one poster seems to have a lot of information about Old Man White. Very interesting!!! [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "which part?" Posted by v_p on 13:43:16 3/18/2001 >>>Very interesting!!!<<< Gonna scan and email some of "dis" welbutrin to a certain poster... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "V_P" Posted by Suhila on 13:50:17 3/18/2001 I found the whole thread interesting, but the part about Old Man White and his women was to say the least thought provoking. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "about Burke's bed" Posted by mary99 on 13:45:21 3/18/2001 Seal posted this today and I wonder if anyone knows where that info can be found. It's not the first time I've seen it posted. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Interesting" Posted by janphi on 13:49:42 3/18/2001 and not true. I checked out what dis_man wrote during the period between his first incoherencies last year and these latest incoherencies, back when he was also "rascal." The owner of White's Black Gold oil distributors is/was James White. Fleet White Jr.'s father's name is Fleet White, Sr. Dis_man will have to do a little better than that. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Janphi" Posted by Ginja on 15:48:03 3/18/2001 God, you're good! :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "help" Posted by Texan on 21:30:28 3/18/2001 I don't go to the swamp - what about Burke's bed. What's going on. Help. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Thanks Janphi" Posted by Gemini on 22:40:38 3/18/2001 For the reasearch and the excellent memory. That's helpful. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "It sounds" Posted by Holly on 05:45:23 3/19/2001 like the poster at the swamp is making a case for FW Sr and the CIA or some other intelligence gathering organization. He should defer to the indisputable janphi on the oil company business. No one knows the White information like janphi. If FW Jr is a millionaire oil man you sure can't prove it by me. Someone like Robert O Anderson of ARCO has too many www references to search - his bio, company information, memberships, news articles everywhere you look. FW, if he really has made millions in oil, has kept it pretty secretive. No news articles I could find, no board memberships, no company profile, no website. Just some property references here and there. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Yea but...." Posted by Bets on 08:43:36 3/19/2001 What about Burke and the bed???????? I refuse to ever visit "that forum". Someone please have mercy on me and fill in the details of what's being said about Burke and the bed. Thanks! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "The bed" Posted by janab on 14:24:19 3/19/2001 The only reference I can find to Burke's bed is the fact that Seal posted that FW "even made up Burke's bed..." Hope that helps. . janab [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "making the bed" Posted by Edie Pratt on 19:20:49 3/19/2001 I wonder how that story got out in the first place. First off, it was only JR B & FW present, so IF it's true, WHO blabbed? And, could it be JR took B off to the side, and FW did it out of uncomfortablness? Did JR insist FW wake B by his side? Why'd they both go to B's room? Were B and FW "buddies"? Gees, do the Ramsey's ever have a private moment alone??? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Eyes wide open" Posted by mary99 on 00:27:41 3/21/2001 Edie, prezactly! Why did Fleet touch so many things in all the wrong places? Dis_man has finally spilled the crude--alluding to inside info gleaned from an oil exec who attended some wild parties in the 80's given by Fleet Sr. Last I knew, he was siding with the Trona faction who thought the world of Mackey B. Wonder what changed his mind so dramatically? Thanks for calling it to our attention, Suhila. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Mary 99" Posted by janphi on 12:23:37 3/21/2001 Do you know something I don't? All I got out of dis_man's gibberish was that the man he talked to -- I guess you could call him an "oil exec," but that's normally reserved for executives with large oil companies, not gas station owners -- said he knew all about the guy who owned White's Black Gold Oil Company. That's who he meant had the parties, not Fleet White's "old man," (father, I assume). I don't think dis_man checked into it far enough. But maybe you've gotten other info that this James White is related to Fleet somehow? I don't see anyone by that name in the immediate family, but I don't have the resources that others have. dis_man is right there, so I suppose he could've gone to the courthouse and looked some stuff up. However, he still would know that Fleet R. White, Sr. isn't named "James." I'll post more about some of this at the bottom of the thread. Let me know what you found out! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Just Asking..." Posted by Dunvegan on 01:00:20 3/21/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 01:00:20, 3/21/2001 ...does anyone know if this info is still current? Jamz posted it long ago: Info on the name FLEET WHITE: Fleet Oil Co., a California corporation, incorporated on 3/1/1962. Registered Agent: Fleet Russell White, Sr. --redacted-- Costa Mesa, Ca. 92627 Officers & Directors: Fleet Russell White, Jr. --redacted-- Boulder, Colorado 80302 Corporate Mailing Address: PO Box 7031 Boulder, Colorado 80303 Again...just asking: If this information is valid, I'd really like to know what kind of oil company operates out of a post office box? It just seems rather unusual, that's all. Edited to add: I was able to find a bricks-and-mortar address: Company: FLEET OIL CO (INC) Address: 743 15TH ST City, State, Zip: BOULDER, CO 80302 [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Hi Dunvegan" Posted by janphi on 12:56:05 3/21/2001 >Info on the name FLEET WHITE:Fleet Oil >Co., a California corporation, incorporated on >3/1/1962. >>>>>>>>>>>Correct, still active >Registered Agent:Fleet Russell White, Sr.--redacted--Costa Mesa, Ca. >92627 >>>>>>>>>>>Address no longer valid for FRWSr. or FOC; however, I believe the home is still in the family--property was transferred from Sr. to Jr. in late 1999 and hasn't shown up as a sale yet. Maybe just renting it out. Sr. now has phone listing in Aspen and didn't before last year, so I'm guessing has moved there permanently. >Officers & Directors:Fleet Russell White, Jr.--redacted--Boulder, Colorado >80302 >Corporate Mailing Address:PO Box 7031Boulder, Colorado 80303 > >Again...just asking: If this information is valid, >I'd really like to know what >kind of oil company operates out >of a post office box? It >just seems rather unusual, that's all. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>I'll add some info about this at the bottom of the thread for you and Holly. >Edited to add:I was able to find >a bricks-and-mortar address: >Company: FLEET OIL CO (INC)Address: 743 15TH >STCity, State, Zip: BOULDER, CO 80302 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>That was the former house the Whites lived in two doors down from the Ramseys. They were just renting that house and moved to the Cleveland address in late 1994, so I'm not sure why this addy still shows up for FOC. There is someone else living there that doesn't appear to be related to the family. A person named George Thacher [sic] Alexander was the absentee owner the last time I saw property records for it, but I don't have access to those to keep current on it. It was listed by an Atlanta real estate agent and another local agent who manages rental property for military and college people and the person last shown renting it went to West Virginia Univ. just like Patsy. In fact, her last year there in grad school was Patsy's first year. Don't know if all of these are coincidences or not. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "One thing for sure" Posted by darby on 07:10:08 3/21/2001 It would seem that the Ramseys have attempted to rewrite history concerning the Whites. They have denied in their book that they ever considered Fleet White a perp. John claimed in his deposition to Lee Hill that there was never any friction between himself and Fleet right after the murder. (yeah, right!) jameson hirself is acting as if there was never any problem involving the Ramseys vs. the Whites. Now why is this? I even started a thread about that in jameson's open forum which was adiosed, mostly due to the fact that candy and gsquared got involved in it getting a bit confrontational with jameson in the process. Both of them (c & g) referenced example after of example, quote after quote, to prove why it's just not true that everything has been just fine between the Ramseys and the Whites since the murder. OBVIOUSLY, THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE WHITES AND RAMSEYS HAS BEEN FAR FROM CONGENIAL--FROM THE MOMENT THE RAMSEYS DECIDED TO LAWYER UP. The Ramseys have made no false pretenses about their feelings about certain former friends (ie, Judith Phillips). My question is--why are the Whites treated differently? Why are the Ramseys seemingly walking on eggshells concerning the Whites? And why have Ramseys tried to rewrite history concerning the Whites? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Darby" Posted by gaiabetsy on 07:17:25 3/21/2001 don't you guess maybe the Rams are afraid of going up against lots of money? I mean, Fleet is loaded, isn't he? And, he seemed to have the ear of the governor, not to mention the newspapers. Plus, didn't Fleet give testimony in the GJ? Maybe the Rams are frightened Fleet might amend his tale to reflect their participation in the dirty deed! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "gaiabetsy" Posted by darby on 07:47:53 3/21/2001 I don't know if that's the reason or not. At any rate, I don't see the Whites filing (without withdrawing) any kind of lawsuit--against the Ramseys or anyone else. Checking on the "John and Fleet" thread at jameson's JBR forum, dis_man seems to think that the Whites will never do anything of the sort. Not that we can believe dis_man, but where the heck is he getting his info? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Hi darby" Posted by janphi on 13:34:41 3/21/2001 I think dis_man's got a favored perp in mind--the tattooed Goth girl from Los Osos that he originally thought was Nancy, before he found out otherwise. That's his "Callie." She evidently moves back and forth from Boulder to San Luis Obispo or Los Osos between divorced parents or something. He and I started out looking at the oil business things the same way and I was glad when he would come over here and post in English (rather than Furbish) about stuff he found--but he freaked everyone else out. When he stuck to just his findings in SanBernCo, which is near where he lives, he was fine. Then he went off in this other direction and lost me, after he met the Boykin daughter-in-law and posted that stuff. In my opinion, that woman probably doesn't know anything about these Whites, so he probably isn't getting any info from her. I think he has put together some tidbits--just like the rest of us, not criticizing--that I don't think fit together, but he seems to think they do. I'm just looking at dry data, he's going out and talking to people. He seems to think Steve Thomas has done contruction work in California (maybe because ST has a mail drop there for his publisher?) that is somehow connected to a building materials company owned by the White family. I've never seen any indication of anything like this, but then like I said above, he can go to the courthouse and look up ownerships and property and I can't. One of the FOC offices was in a small office building with a lot of homebuilders and even with the local equivalent of Habitat for Humanity or something for sheltering the homeless--maybe he's using that tidbit, too. Additionally, the people who bought FWJr.'s house in OrangeCo are large homebuilders there, so maybe dm thinks it all fits together. He gets these cryptic msgs from his "Callie" about police bracelets (I assume like Haddon's wife's company) and lumber and Arvada and whatever. I think the bracelets relate to Rex Krebs and the 84 Lumber Co. where he worked. dis_man asked me about White's Black Gold Oil Company, so I looked it up. It was not the old-time major national market brand I was thinking of, but just a holding company for some local Calif. gas station/convenience stores. Apples and oranges. When I sleuthed it, I found that the CA holding company was small and had been under at least three ownerships, the next to last being the one that added the "White's" to the name. One of the ownerships I saw was the White Family Trust. I had a hard time finding the names associated with that particular trust--White is such a common name, it's difficult to find the right stuff--but when I did, none matched to the very few White names in FW's immediate family. OTOH, I don't have any kind of genealogy and those who have found out this info have decided not to share it here, evidently. Maybe because of the threats, I don't know. None of this is bad. Anyway, that Trust's lead Trustee, I believe, is a Thomas S. White. That may have confused dis_man, because of the Thomas White in Boulder who has lived in several of the same houses the FWs have. Not the same Thomas White at all. Also, one of the stations owned at that time was an Arco Am/PM Mini-mart in Coachella. Then there was also an Arco owned by the WFT (maybe a different one) in El Sobrante, up in Contra Costa County. We could find property transactions in SanBernCo for the Whites and some thought it was this gas station. I did, too, for a while, but then found those other names. White's Black Gold has changed its name, but I don't know what it was changed to or who owns the remnants. The ownerships have been by James White of Ontario, California (SanBernCo) and by Mohammed JW Amer, of Diamond Bar, CA (LosAngCo), who also has an addy in Long Beach--which is a whole "other" story I'll post more about in a minute! Whew! Anyway, I think dis_man has woven a fantasy story with no real basis in fact. Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't think he really knows. A lot of what he spins is about Rex Allen Krebs and other people in Los Osos, not about Nancy or the Whites. JMHonestO. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "there ARE some secrets there..." Posted by mary99 on 08:54:18 3/21/2001 sez jamz about White... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "ginja," Posted by listener on 11:45:37 3/21/2001 Have you heard any updated thoughts from Diane E? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "-" Posted by luvsflowers on 12:36:34 3/21/2001 darby did you save the thread that got axed? i emailed you at the hot mail address I used to have for you--is that still a good address? janphi do you have an email that you can post? I have a question for you. luvs [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Hi, luvsflowers" Posted by janphi on 12:59:14 3/21/2001 Nope, but you can send it to Chris and maybe she'll be kind enough to pass it along to me when she gets back and gets a chance to. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Oil Bidness Questions" Posted by janphi on 14:41:40 3/21/2001 I won't pretend like I'm an "expert" of any kind on the oil business--it's huge and complicated and hard to explain. But the point I wanted to make was about the Whites and Fleet Oil Co. I don't know any more than anyone here--in fact, I feel certain most everyone here knows more than I do about the mystery people and I KNOW there are two fora full of people who are in contact with them one way or another. Even a JW poster or two or three maybe are, as well. I don't know them from Adam, tho I may have met Jr. at a party once. (Not that kind.) Curiosity drew me last year to look everywhere I could look--online only--just to see if I could find where Fleet Oil Co. might be actively drilling wells. From everything I can gather, it is and/or was an oil & gas exploration company. I know they were shown at one time to be hiring geologists, so that has to be the end of the business in which they are engaged. This has nothing to do with gas stations or major oil companies or offshore drilling or the national energy crisis or OPEC or anything like that--at least, not exactly and not directly. The exploration end of the oil business is the part where people put together land deals, speculating where oil may be found and where wells may be drilled to try to discover petroleum deposits or to "step out" and drill development wells near other wells which are already producing. There are landmen, lease brokers, geologists, reservoir engineers, service company people, seismographers, drillers and well operators, among others, who make up those who explore for oil. It's a high-risk, high-dollar enterprise. Small independents--that is, companies who are not among the majors such as Exxon-Mobil, Texaco, BP-Amoco, Phillips, Shell--discover and produce nearly 90% of the oil & gas recovered in the US. However, none of them actually market or sell gasoline to consumers, which is where the confusion usually comes in when talking about this to those not in the business. The majors drill large, expensive wells overseas; a few offshore US on the continental shelf; and some of the bigger, deeper finds inland US. The smaller companies rent rigs and hire out crews and drill smaller wells after buying the leases for the land on which they want to drill, which is usually decided in conjunction with a consulting geologist or one they have on staff if they're a little larger. I'm way oversimplifying this, but I'll try to make the point. Landmen spend their whole days in the courthouse--or now, in some cases online, but not very much of it is available that way--looking up property transactions for mineral rights. Mineral rights are the ownership of the mineral interests under the surface land. You may or may not own the mineral interests under your home or lot. In active petroleum areas, they have been bought and sold so many times and inherited and divided, that there may be as many as 5000 interest owners for one small parcel of land, with divided interests in the 1/10000ths or so. All of these mineral interests have to be accounted for and leased before a well can be drilled. Once they are, if there is oil or gas (or both) found in the well, all the interest owners get a cut (a royalty) of the action (money/revenue) from sales of the production from the well. Gathering systems have to be built or connections have to be laid to the pipelines that crisscross the US underground. At this point, the majors or independent brokers buy the production, in MOST cases, and take it "downstream" to their company-owned refineries, where it is refined into gasoline, among other petrochemicals. From there, it is trucked to the local gas stations, some of which are owned by the company, but more of which are independently franchised. The exception to this are the smaller companies that specialize in different aspects of the business--some own a small refinery and/or market their own gas locally (a rare breed nowadays); some buy production at the wellhead and re-sell it to larger independent distributors; some simply put together land deals and lease plays and package them to investors. Many of them never drill any wells at all. Still others just buy up producing oil properties from others and use the royalty income as their livelihood or as revenue for other oil-related activities. If Fleet Oil was ever active in drilling wells, I haven't run across their names in lots and lots of searching. HOWEVER, caveat--they could easily be partners with any number of other small independent producers and their name wouldn't show up on the well reports. In fact, that is standard on just about every oil & gas well drilled. There will be a lead producer and/or operator who will take care of all the activities required to find/recover/transport/sell any petroleum found in the chosen location. Other small oil companies (and majors, as well) will go in on the deals, putting up percentages of the money needed (in the millions) to lease and produce, in return for royalty interests when the petroleum is sold. The only way to find out where they are participating and getting royalties is to hire a(n) (expensive) landman to go to the courthouse and look up all the leases and division orders to see where their name shows up. These are in a constant state of flux (especially right now with prices up and domestic drilling activity picking back up!) and hard to stay current with. Of course, you'd have to GUESS what county in what state to use as a starting point, unless you could find a talkative lease broker or title specialist in Colorado! I can tell you it's not Orange County or San Bernardino. May not even be California, actually. We're talking needle in a haystack here. I'm guessing because of FWSr.'s advanced age, that perhaps if FOC ever did drill and/or operate, that they stopped doing it a while back--maybe in the early 1980's--and have been living on their royalties ever since. They do still participate in wells, as I've seen their name on a few things; they appear to also do some leasing of some properties; and it looks like they probably buy production in places--all of this providing income for their investments. IOW, they don't get W-2 forms, they get 1099's. There is no reason to ever see their names listed anywhere for things like this. When FWJr. is described in news stories as a "retired oilman" that is most likely exactly what he is. When he and JR kidded about FWJr.'s "old man" owning a gas station and hence, being in the oil business, I don't think they meant anything other than the one gas station that is on some property they own in OrangeCo., Calif.--and their name isn't on the sign there. The fact that they don't get involved in civic and philanthropic activities is no real biggie. I wish I knew where their original oil money was made--where the leases were or what oil field(s)--then I would have a better picture of what "type" of oildudes they might be. There are different "styles" in different places--from wild partiers to lone wolves and everything in between. West Texans are different from other Texans, who are different from Oklahomans and from Californians, just due to local influences and the conditions that necessitate the type of oilfield activities in the area. More about the other Fleet Oil companies in a minute. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "janphi" Posted by mary99 on 14:09:43 3/21/2001 You are much more informed on the various details of the White Oil business than I, or probably dis_man, for that matter. However, if he has actually done some informal sleuthing leading him to believe the Whites are under investigation he may not know the exact details of the companies transactions or their various transformations, but still be accurately reporting his awareness of FBI interest in their activities. He may well be mixing good information with less accurate info on purpose to keep some of his sources of info private...not a bad thing to do if one is sitting on a powderkeg. Who knows? He does have that fixation on "Callie" as the perp and I have NO clue as to who that might be, or if she is even a plausible 'suspect', as her only tie-in seems to have been a trip from Boulder to CA around the time of the murder...no proof she even knew the Rams for that matter. As for Rex Allen Krebs, isn't he another James Brewer Eustace type who has been thoroughly excluded from any connection to Boulder, the Rams and the murder. All he has in common is the same MO, and SLO victims, at least that's what I thought. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Well, Mary99, I'm not sure" Posted by janphi on 15:07:30 3/21/2001 If dis_man still thinks that White's Black Gold is FW's family, then there might be a totally different reason he thinks they're under investigation by the FBI, not related to Nancy. The other ownership names for White's Black Gold and the related Black Gold oil companies are all Middle Eastern/Arabic names--Khatchadwian, Sharifi and Khatchadourian, for example. There was a huge crackdown starting a few years ago on what was called the "Russian Mafia" (well, "called" that because that is what they ARE!) in California, who made up the majority (nearly 80%, if I'm not mistaken) of gas station/convenience store owners in the state--including the highest-grossing truck stop in the US. All of the names listed were similar to the names I just posted, so maybe they are Turkish or Afghan or something (somebody help me out with those, I don't know! I thought they were Lebanese till I read the Russian Mafia stuff!). They were skimming huge profits by underreporting their federal excise tax--or maybe overreporting and getting rebates, seems like that's what it was--through all these myriad dummy companies they had set up--companies with names like Black Gold, for example. It is an ongoing Dept of Transp investigation, in cooperation with FBI and DOJ, maybe others. Really a big deal. If dm has looked all this stuff up, but still thinks James White is FWJr.'s father, which is obviously not right (he also thinks he's British, er, "Brutish," too) then he may have jumped to these conclusions. I don't KNOW, of course, but I know that when I thought he knew more than I did, and I followed some of his leads, I also mistook this info at first as pertaining to the FWs. But it doesn't--as far as I can tell. I don't know about Rex Krebs. I can't connect him to Nancy, family-wise, but have been told differently. I can see HOW, but I can't see WHO is the link--almost proves up, but not quite. Since it came from Gwen originally -- just like the Rams connection did -- I won't believe it till I can see it. Keeping up with the trial proceedings, anyway, because they'll get into his family history very early on, maybe in a couple of weeks--then we may know for sure. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "janphi" Posted by fly on 13:50:29 3/21/2001 janphi - Thanks for that very coherent rundown. Very helpful stuff when trying to keep things straight and accurate. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "russian mafia??" Posted by luvsflowers on 15:21:59 3/21/2001 I wonder if the Russian Mafia is any kin to the Russian Army that JR wanted to call out to close down the city of Boulder? luvs [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Fleet Oil Company" Posted by janphi on 07:19:05 3/22/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 07:19:05, 3/22/2001 There are three Fleet Oil Company entities that might be confusing to people--I know they were to me at first. The first--and as far as I can tell the only one that is connected to the FW's--is the Fleet Oil Co. as posted above by Dunvegan, the company started by FWSr. in 1962 in California and in which FWJr. has been an active participant for many years, and now is listed as President. He runs this out of his home, evidently, as all that is needed is a phone and a fax and a mailbox and maybe a computer, if all he is doing is buying and selling leases or production. While FWSr. was still in California, Fleet Oil had an office in Irvine, not far from his home in Costa Mesa. It was probably also their office when FWJr. lived in Newport Beach, which was also very close by. What has been confusing to some people--and may also be a factor in dis_man saying the FWs are in the real estate business (which I don't think they are)--is the name of another entity connected to their oil business dealings. That is Fleet Properties, LP. This limited partnership name isn't a primary corporate name, not really even a subsidiary, just a bookkeeping/accounting entity, I'm guessing, to be used as the legal name (dba) when trading in only certain types of oil deals--again, just guessing, probably only when they are buying and/or selling already producing mineral interests--as opposed to buying mineral leases in undeveloped areas to package a prospect for drilling. Once the Fleet Oil prospect is drilled and if they're lucky, encounters production and then continues to produce, it can then be categorized a "property." I have also run across Fleet Exploration Co. as another dba, but only once or twice and always with their names attached to the deals. The reason this is confusing is because there is also a Fleet Properties, Inc., or Fleet Properties Co., Inc., which is a division of FleetBank or FleetBoston--their real estate and development department, which owns land and commercial property and lends money for same. They have been a large bank back East and haven't done much on the West Coast until recent years. They have lots and lots of dealings in several of the same counties in CA that Fleet Oil does, so you have to separate the two entities to know which is which, especially with the abbreviations of the listings online. There is one particular property in Michigan that I'm still not sure about--a "secret document" says it's connnected to FW's, but I don't believe it is. OTOH, a natural gas well was drilled nearby for the Ford plant by a company based in Traverse City (near Charlevoix) and in Midland, TX, which very well could've been a contact of FW's--maybe JR's, too, as the property is connected to people from East Lansing as well. The 2nd Fleet Oil Co. is Fleet Oil & Truck Supply in Long Beach, CA. It seemed to be accepted as fact on the fora when I came here a year ago that this was FW's company. I tried every which way to figure out exactly what it was--a wholesale oil distributor, a propane station, a gas station that also sold camper shells for trucks. I just didn't know. We had a poster here who said he/she lived near there and we asked if she would drive by and tell us what it looked like, but no response. The ownership docs on the place show a person by the last name of Harter as the owner and his having owned it for more than 10 years. To me, it doesn't fit at all with an oil & gas exploration company--OTOH, maybe it was part of their holdings in past years and they sold it to this person then. At some point, one of the jams posters, not dis_man, posted that the FWs had "sold their business years ago" and were still living off the proceeds. I odn't know if they meant THIS business or not--or if the poster even read the court clerk docs correctly. (Other statements of "fact" by this poster have not been true, so I'm not sure.) This same owner also has/had a business near Kingman, AZ, off Route 66 (I-40) named Fleet Oil Analysis, whic could be a couple of things--maybe an "instant lube" type of drive-thru facility or maybe a core sampling service. Can't speculate past that. I don't really know about this one, but I do know it doesn't appear to be connected to the FWs at this time. The third Fleet Oil Co. is in Georgia. It is a holding company of gas stations in small towns outside of Atlanta and in several rural areas of GA. The principals are George Hood and Marian Cunningham, plus some others. Together the two own 5-6 other oil-related companies and convenience stores. These gas stations are/were located (some are closed) in Buchanan, Cedartown, Ellijay and Jackson, GA. At least one of them was Arco branded when I checked them. Again, I don't see that these are related in anyway to the FWs. Edited to add: There was also a Fleet Oil Corporation registration in Oklahoma City that Dunvegan posted a few months ago. Because it was named "Corporation," (not "Company") and only listed the address for its attorney, J. Dennis Ryan, I didn't really pursue it past that point, except to check out the attorney. I didn't have any dates on its charter or ouster to really judge what it was. The office building where the attorney was is one I'm aware of, across the street from a former home of a good friend of mine, but that didn't tell me anything about the company. Ryan has had two subsequent addresses (assuming the one listed with Fleet Oil was the earliest), one of which is a former office building where I officed and the current one is in the suburbs. Don't know what to do with this info past that. FWIW, "Fleet Oil" does not appear to be among the smaller oil companies that were involved in the Penn Square Bank scandal in Oklahoma in 1982-84 (and longer)--this was the one that brought down a number of banks across the US, including one major in JR's part of Michigan. I half expected to find some tie-in there, because of some major players from Newport Beach. But other than one real estate deal which I might expound upon at another time, I couldn't find any connection between these guys and the FW's. However, I'd be reasonably certain that they all knew each other and may have invested together, but I haven't seen anything with the FW's names on it--if they were involved in any way, it would've been on the losing end. If those who know more about this information could help us flesh out the facts, I would appreciate it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "even speaking Furbish" Posted by mary99 on 17:20:29 3/21/2001 as dis_man likes to do, how could he possibly think Fleet White Jr is the son of a James White? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "luvsflowers and janphi " Posted by darby on 18:20:57 3/21/2001 luvs--No, and I wish I had thought to save that thread. jams even said that it was on the verge of being tanked. What I gathered before it was gone--gsquared more or less got jams to (reluctantly) concur that yes indeed, Patsy--the REAL Patsy had been emailing with gsquared. One of the things that gsquared said was that Patsy had asked gsquared to investigate something about Priscilla White. And now I forget what that something was. (sigh) Neither candy nor gsquared post here, so I guess I'll never know. Oh well. gsquared was trying to make a case that the Ramseys were very suspicious about the Whites, and she felt that Patsy herself made that abundantly clear. candy quoted both PMPT and ITRI several times to prove the same thing. BTW, yes that's still my email but I rarely check it. janphi--very, very good work. Somebody somewhere (a law office?) ought to pay you big money as a researcher. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "I saw the thread" Posted by RiverRat on 19:00:46 3/21/2001 It was too funny to watch her have to come back and eat hir words when she had to admit that the e-mails did come from Patsy. The sugject was something about a brother-in-law of PW. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "darby and janphi" Posted by mary99 on 18:47:48 3/21/2001 Darby, I have the posts you are interested in--can send them if you want. Essentially, the g person said she received email from an email address which belonged to PR and was in fact printed on the JBR Foundation letterhead, later confirmed by Linwood and ? to be PR's aol addy. jamz hedged, then confirmed it was PR's but also said these things can be faked. The email contained a line or two referring to an atty brother-in-law in the DC area of PW's. (The name was similar but not the same as the name of the atty who delivered the photo release revocation request to JP she referred to in the interview with Mame.) Janphi, good work on the oil business background. I wonder now if dis_man even checked the ownership of White's Black Gold...if not, his 'sleuthing' might have added up to good info about the wrong people. How could he think he was sleuthing White Sr. if the person he was in touch with (if he was in fact in touch with anyone) was talking about a different White? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "Well, darby" Posted by janphi on 08:54:41 3/22/2001 For all we know, he just found one of the WBG stations and talked to an owner-operator and asked about "Old Man White." Or he may think James White is related to the FWs. Who knows. For all I know, he MAY be, but someone will have to show me how he is. There was also James White Oil Company, which appears to have gone under in 1981 or so, or may have been merged into WBG. I don't have a middle initial for either of these James White's, so can't go any further. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "mary99" Posted by luvsflowers on 06:24:32 3/22/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 06:24:32, 3/22/2001 can you email me the thread at luvsflowers28@hotmail.com? also janphi please email me at that address if you can. also there was a poster who said they had an interest in the comment made by JP about the trip PR took to Texas. who was that? I cant find it anywhere. luvs now the john/fleet thread over there is missing too. wonder where it went? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Luvs" Posted by momo on 08:24:39 3/22/2001 That was Ayelean that was interested in the Texas trip. Of course, I know that Mary99 and I had also expressed interest in the trip. I believe that trip was extremely signifigant in the lives of Patsy and JonBenet. I don't know why but it bothers me for some reason. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Oh well..." Posted by mary99 on 07:11:01 3/22/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 07:11:01, 3/22/2001 2 down, 1 to go. Luvs, I mixed up the two J & F threads and lost the one in question. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Try this" Posted by janphi on 07:23:11 3/22/2001 Look in archives there. Last page (2). Public is separate. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Thanks, Janphi" Posted by mary99 on 07:38:48 3/22/2001 Was the Susan Stine/Life-Quest connection ever looked into? I vaguely remember she was also listed in a Boulder business as a corporate officer. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Susan Stine - Grayson" Posted by janphi on 08:38:35 3/22/2001 Well, I did look into it a little, quit a while back--I keep jumping around from lead to lead and never get to completely finish anything, lol! There is a Susan B. Stine who is part of a family trust in Texas. It's my impression that is her maiden name, so I can look it up sometime. The trust has investments similar to Life-Quest, tho right now I can't remember exactly what that was! Retirement homes or something? Sorry. Anyway, what struck me the most was that much of their stuff took place in Grayson County, Texas, so I sort of quit looking after that and just assumed that Grayson Equities probably had to do with the name of the county where the properties were located. That is in north TX, just north of Dallas and the county seat is Sherman. FWIW, I believe that the Thomas White in Boulder that lives with Ms. Clemons at one of the former addresses for the FW's graduated from college in Sherman (Austin) but I can't confirm that. Also, White's wife has done some kind of translation work at the University in Denton, not far away, but not in Grayson County. What also threw me was that the address for the company was in Conroe, TX, which is a northern suburb way down here in Houston, not anywhere near the part of the state where Grayson County is. I just don't think it has anything to do with Susan B. Stine who was from Boston originally. Obviously, I COULD be wrong! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Hey, janphi!" Posted by Holly on 08:41:01 3/22/2001 You go girl. Nobody researches like you. Check your phone messages, BTW. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Janphi" Posted by momo on 08:45:08 3/22/2001 The more you connect the dots, the more the whole slew of them should be running scared. :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "momo" Posted by luvsflowers on 09:34:27 3/22/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 09:34:27, 3/22/2001 thanks for clarifying. The hotmail account is down for some reason. Email me at luvsflowers28@yahoo.com if you want. Ive got something Im looking at thats kinda interesting. Mary you can email me too if you would like. luvs ah yes the J/F thread is still there. Dang its hard to keep all these forums straight. Forgive my error. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "No problem" Posted by janphi on 10:38:04 3/22/2001 Done deal. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "That was me..." Posted by Ayeka on 12:13:37 3/22/2001 On another thread, wondering about that Texas trip. (Ayeka, Ayelean... pretty darn close. :)) I agree with you, momo-- I think something very significant happened that trip. Ayeka [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "So, who knows about" Posted by gaiabetsy on 06:24:37 3/23/2001 that blasted Texas trip in detail? I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseam, but somebody please take pity on me and fill me in on the details? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "Texas...." Posted by rose on 11:28:06 3/23/2001 Is it not the place where they have a Beauty queen consulting camp. I once saw a TV article about this consulting group. They advise and help beauty contestants on every thing on how to win. Even provide advise and help in plastic surgery needs to enhance breast measurements. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Texas trip" Posted by Ayeka on 11:27:14 3/23/2001 Gaiabetsy, I snipped this from the first J. Phillips Transcript thread: mapek: This is from mame: she talks about a change in patsy after a trip to texas one summer. i wonder what year that was? was it the same summer jonbenet became a blonde? j_phillip: Yes. I believe it was the summer of 1995. Mapek: what type of change did you detect? j_phillip: Her eyes were different. j_phillip: She looked troubled. j_phillip: She looked stressed. j_phillip: Somewhat surprising fro someone who j_phillip: just came back from an all summer vacation. [snipped portion regarding hair dying vs. hot sun] mapek: did you also detect a change in JonBenet after that summer? j_phillip: She didn't look like herself anymore, j_phillip: instead of a curious little tomboy j_phillip: she looked much older and put together in a mature way.... j_phillip: Something that I hadn't seen before. It took my breath away. I have also read on JW (sorry, I cannot remember the source, but it may have been another JP interview) that Patsy returned from this same trip with a diamond ring. This whole thing has me wondering. Ayeka [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]