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BR (cont'd) Part 3, Hyacinth, 17:09:11, 3/22/2000 Speculations about missing Chr..., Hyacinth, 17:15:40, 3/22/2000, (#1) The big thing is,, Ron S., 17:25:29, 3/22/2000, (#2) The Perfect Child, Zandra, 18:38:51, 3/22/2000, (#3) Zandra....Definite?, La Contessa, 10:13:25, 3/27/2000, (#26) Shivers, Hyacinth, 15:16:01, 3/23/2000, (#4) Hyacinth, mother, 15:51:47, 3/23/2000, (#5) mother, Hyacinth, 22:29:21, 3/23/2000, (#7) Continuation with scouts, Hyacinth, 22:24:39, 3/23/2000, (#6) This may mean nothing, Bunnyby, 22:46:19, 3/23/2000, (#9) The BR theory , momo, 22:42:29, 3/23/2000, (#8) Strange Too ..., mandarin, 00:25:23, 3/24/2000, (#10) Zandra... question..., Fra, 01:15:52, 3/24/2000, (#11) for Fra, Zandra, 08:23:59, 3/24/2000, (#12) John's reply, South, 09:45:40, 3/24/2000, (#13) How pathetic that the, fiddler, 11:03:32, 3/24/2000, (#14) About grins, Hyacinth, 15:38:57, 3/24/2000, (#16) Asperger's, Zandra, 15:33:52, 3/24/2000, (#15) NYL corrected, Hyacinth, 18:10:52, 3/24/2000, (#17) Zandra--I think Temple Grandin..., fiddler, 18:58:07, 3/24/2000, (#18) for fiddler..., Zandra, 16:42:23, 3/25/2000, (#22) Someone said ...., mandarin, 01:40:07, 3/25/2000, (#19) But About Burke ..., mandarin, 01:48:02, 3/25/2000, (#20) Let's Play a Game..., Zandra, 14:34:14, 3/25/2000, (#21) Zandra...Works For Me, La Contessa, 10:46:06, 3/27/2000, (#28) Zandra re Games ..., mandarin, 17:39:54, 3/26/2000, (#23) br, Taylor, 18:07:00, 3/26/2000, (#24) taylor, pat, 07:25:50, 3/27/2000, (#25) Burke, gaiabetsy, 10:35:40, 3/27/2000, (#27) Gaiabetsy....Some Speculation, La Contessa, 10:52:22, 3/27/2000, (#29) laContessa, fly, 11:13:36, 3/27/2000, (#30) mandarin, shadow, 11:21:30, 3/27/2000, (#31) ................................................................... "BR (cont'd) Part 3" Posted by Hyacinth on 17:09:11 3/22/2000 61. "How did you feel..." Posted by honeypot on 09:45:28 3/20/2000 when you watched the 20/20 interview? I felt moved. I wanted to believe them, but reality kept me grounded. I absolutely felt that when Patsy stated that if she knew that her husband was responsible for this they wouldn't be having this interview she WAS TELLING THE TRUTH. It was strong and it was emphatic. This is how you would expect all of her statements to be if they were the 100% truth. There was no reservation in her voice. honeypot [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 62. "JR" Posted by honeypot on 09:49:03 3/20/2000 If the BR theory is true, the Ramseys are guilty of a terrible crime. It is wholly against the law to cover up a murder; especially with such premeditation. Again, how do they prove it? That is where, I believe, the investigation is going. honeypot [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 63. "and, one more thing, JR" Posted by honeypot on 09:54:53 3/20/2000 If the BR theory is true, much better that they prove it. Much better for BR in the long run. Much better. He has been dealt a horrible injustice and better that it's out in the open. A child is a child. Nothing more and nothing less. A child does not reason as an adult and therefore the parents are responsible for his actions. Read my post "Imagine..." and it won't be hard to imagine why the death and why the cover up. honeypot [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 64. "If only..." Posted by Zandra on 11:32:35 3/20/2000 If John and Patsy Ramsey had told the truth to the police on the morning of December 26, 1996, none of would be here now reading these threads. Most of us would have no recollection whatsoever of the names "John and Patsy Ramsey, JonBenet Ramsey, Burke Ramsey, John Andrew Ramsey, Don and Nedra Paugh" and so on. The continual lying, and we know for a fact that they are lying about SOMETHING, is what has made them the focus of intense public scrutiny and contempt. We have no right to know their private business, and if they had reported the truth immediately to the appropriate authorities, it would remain their private business. Their lives, damaged as they might be, would go un. Why do they place themselves in the public eye, lie, and CHALLENGE the world to prove that it is a lie? Why do they attempt to bring blame on innocent people, knowing that the people they point to ARE innocent? Hyacinth, I agree with your explanation that the Ramseys have decided that the devil did it. Too bad they didn't simply tell THAT to the police! [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 65. "if burke did it" Posted by pat on 13:07:59 3/20/2000 i think there are more compelling explanations than sibling rivalry,,most of them having to do with sexual interest, sexual play and lack of empathy and maybe going to far. And the lack of history of sexually abnormal behavior is what we assume. And sexual assaults occur with very young boys short of intercourse. The dilatation of the hymeneal opening could have been accomplished with an object. Boys and girls play doctor, stick things in each other but the play usually doesnt hurt anyone because when one says that hurts, it stops. Unless you cant say that and the other kid is impulsive and inappropriately aggressive and scared of being discovered. [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 68. "Pat...Recent Example" Posted by La Contessa on 18:27:21 3/20/2000 It was reported in the New York Post, a couple of months ago, that a 9 year old boy had RAPED a 7 year old girl. Happened in a grammar school in one of the 5 boroughs in New York. [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 66. "On page 31 it states..." Posted by honeypot on 14:51:07 3/20/2000 and I will paraphrase for obvious reasons. BR was interrogated quite extensively by the police on the morning of December 26 while he was at the Whites'. The Ramseys were not aware of this, nor did they give permission (the police claim that his grandmother gave permission.) Here's the clincher guys: We did not learn about this interrogation until BR was subpeonaed to appear before the gj in 1999. Who's zooming who? Do they expect people to believe that this boy did not tell them that the cops asked him lots of questions...etc., etc., zoomed honeypot [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 67. "On page 26 it states..." Posted by honeypot on 14:58:03 3/20/2000 and again I'll paraphrase. A person came into our house while we were asleep. The context of this statement is not in describing the actual crime, but rather he's remembering his thoughts while at the Fernies immediately after the death. Hmmmmm. That's interesting because in their interview on 20/20 they emphatically stated that they believe that person waited for hours for them to return home. which is it? honeypot [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 69. "EDIE, EDIE " Posted by moon on 18:33:12 3/20/2000 ARE YOU HERE OR SOME WHERE ELSE?? DAM ITS HARD TO FIND PEOPLE SOMETIMES!! [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Speculations about missing Christmas video" Posted by Hyacinth on 17:15:40 3/22/2000 Last night a horrible thought came to me about why the Christmas video is missing. If Burke received a bunch of Boy Scout related things (for Webelos) for Christmas: rope to practice knots, flashlight, duct tape for hiking, a knife for whittling, Hi-Tek hiking boots, duct tape for blisters, the Boy Scout Manual . . . that would certainly provide motivation for the Ramseys to destroy that tape. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "The big thing is," Posted by Ron S. on 17:25:29 3/22/2000 if Burke is innocent and has/had nothing to do with the death of his sister, why is it that they fail/refuse to come forward with this information. No real big deal, all they have to say is, "this is the reasone we believe that BR had nothing to do with JBR's death. Simple as that! I'm not buying the BR has been excluded, without any follow up, as to why he has been excluded. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "The Perfect Child" Posted by Zandra on 18:38:51 3/22/2000 No, I'm not referring to JonBenet. I wonder how old Burke was when he was diagnosed with Asperger's. About the time Patsy's focus of attention shifted to her daughter? Maybe before that, she hoped he was merely a geeky genius like his dad. Once he was identified as damaged goods, did he suffer Mom's rejection? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Zandra....Definite?" Posted by La Contessa on 10:13:25 3/27/2000 I know that it has been speculated that Burke has Asperger's. Do you know, for a fact, that this was his diagnosis? If so, how did this information come to you? Hyacinth - I, too, have always thought Burke was a weird kid from watching his reactions in the various videos of him at the funeral and memorial services for JBR. When the psychotherapist who interviewed him, 13 days after the murder, noted his pronounced "lack of affect," my suspicions, about him, intensified. Also, notice how his parents never mention him, unless asked. And then, they skim over him. Very telling IMO. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Shivers" Posted by Hyacinth on 15:16:01 3/23/2000 Watching the clips of the family fishing on the Today Show gave me the creeps. There is a strange quality about Burke; I can't quite put my finger on it. Self-consciousness is normal for a teenager --- so on one hand, I'm not sure how much to put into the smirking, self-conscious, awkward attempts to look like he was enjoying fishing . . . but that boy is old enough to know he was being filmed for a piece about his murdered sister, and still no solemnity, reverence or even a real awareness the seriousness of the situation. How much comes from the Ramseys, and the kinds of situations they put him in is anybody's guess. Still, IMO, here is an out-of-it quality about that child . . . that young man . . . Seeing his awkward grins and the close-ups of his big, teenagery hands, brought back all I'd heard and seen of him: reports about his behaviour the morning of the murder, and at the funeral, the pictures of him striding along laughing with his parents . . . gave me shivers. Then hearing the Ramseys's concerns about what will happen down the line with Burke . . . the repercussions they worry about . . .made the hair on my arms stand up. The Ramseys' words always seem loaded with ambiguousness; this "doublespeak" they use all the time . . . it's exhausting. SHUDDER [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Hyacinth" Posted by mother on 15:51:47 3/23/2000 Yes! What struck me most in this latest interview was the statement Patsy made saying that what concerned her most was how Burke would be affected by this in the future. Ron S. - dear friend - it's what we have been saying all along - give us the "reasons" Burke was cleared - not just say he's cleared. And . . I have one thing to say about the garrote (that was said 3 years ago) - if the perpetrator used the garrote to CONTROL a 48 lb. little girl, it had to be a person who wasn't very strong - an adult male wouldn't have to use the device to control a tiny girl. So - who is the person the Ramseys (and a "few" others)think was too young/small to commit the act? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "mother" Posted by Hyacinth on 22:29:21 3/23/2000 Totally agree . . . wish I'd seen your post three years ago. Someone with limited strength could have used the garrote to their advantage. The Boy Scout tightening stick (same design) uses the same torque force to allow younger boys to make tight lashings with their ropes . . . >And . . I have one thing >to say about the garrote (that >was said 3 years ago) - >if the perpetrator used the garrote >to CONTROL a 48 lb. little >girl, it had to be a >person who wasn't very strong - >an adult male wouldn't have to >use the device to control a >tiny girl. So - who >is the person the Ramseys (and >a "few" others)think was too young/small >to commit the act? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Continuation with scouts" Posted by Hyacinth on 22:24:39 3/23/2000 Does anyone know if Burke continued on with Boy Scouts in Atlanta? Does the book mention anything about that? It would be logical to assume that if this was tragedy brought on by experimentation with a lot of Boy Scout stuff, Christmas gifts: the manual, ropes, knots, tape, tightening stick, etc. that Burke and the family would never want to have anything to do with Boy Scouts again. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "This may mean nothing" Posted by Bunnyby on 22:48:08 3/23/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:48:08, 3/23/2000 but remember the Ramseys chat this week when they were asked if they would cover for one another and they said no: When asked the same thing about being willing to cover for Burke JR answered yes he would. I will have to go back to transcript to see his exact comment but when I read that I immediatley thought to one of the first interviews where JR said he would do ANYTHING to protect oe of his children. There was alot speculation then that it may have meant he was covering for Burke. Now the chat comment may have been unrelated and they were just saying 'IF this were the case yes we would protect him.' Alot of parents I have asked said they would cover if one their children took one of their other childrens life. My grandma who is a very honest woman who would not lie even said if she been in a situation like that she would have lied to police. I guess its part of being a parent. I think I'll go back and attempt to analyze all of Rams comments about Burke. I was surprised they let him be on film for Couric interview. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "The BR theory " Posted by momo on 22:42:29 3/23/2000 Something to think about would be the fact that on the 911 tape,after Pats thought she hung up the phone, Burke is said to be heard saying"What do I do?".I think If he did'nt know what was going on he would say"What is going on?" I always though that to be strange. IMHO of course [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Strange Too ..." Posted by mandarin on 00:25:23 3/24/2000 That the Rams, commenting on the enhanced tape, said they believed the tape was altered. So, it seems they are acknowledging that voices "can be heard"! John is heard saying, Go back to bed or words to that effect. Wish we were privy to that enhanced tape evidence. You can bet the Rams have heard it (via their lawyers). I'm also wondering how a now teenaged boy feels seeing his parents on their "World Wide Alibi" tour (Jay Leno's pun). It must be excruciating for him to go to school each day and face his peers & teachers while Mom & Pop are doing the morning AND night prime time shows. And here I thought they wanted to protect their son from the media spotlight. Yeah, right! Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Zandra... question..." Posted by Fra on 01:15:52 3/24/2000 You mention that Burke has Asperger's syndrome. Where did you hear that, please? I speculated that Burke had Asperger's about a month ago after seeing the TV special which ran on Sunday night, February 27th. Days before the special I had spent some time with a friend's son who has Asperger's, and when I saw the portrayal of Burke it dawned on me that he indeed had this unusual syndrome, too. TIA for your response. Fra [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "for Fra" Posted by Zandra on 08:51:12 3/24/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:51:12, 3/24/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:47:26, 3/24/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:25:17, 3/24/2000 Fra, I might have heard "Asperger's Syndrome" from you, but we had heard mention years ago on the forum that Burke was "slightly autistic" and required special schooling. I immediately looked up Asperger's on the Internet and discovered that it is, indeed, the "mildest form of autism", that many children with it remain undiagnosed, that many of them grow up to lead complete and fulfilling lives, with successful marriages and careers and that, according to the list of diagnostic points, Burke exhibits many of the symptoms of Asperger's--for instance, the inappropriate giggling and "hopping around" in the pew which was described at JonBenet's funeral, the instense focus on his computer games at a time when you might think he WOULD be able to drag himself away, the strange question he had for his police interviewer ("Is that a real Rolex?") when asked at the end of the interview if HE had any questions he wanted answered. But I asked, "When was Burke diagnosed with Asperger's?" because I, also, wished to know if the diagnosis has been made officially. Where did we hear that he was "slightly autistic"? Here are the links I included in my earlier note: http://www.autism.org/asperger.html http://www.ummed.edu/pub/o/ozbayrak/asperger.html And, oh yeah, here's another odd bit that makes sense when you look at it from the autism standpoint: Burke asking, "Does this mean I can't play with JonBenet anymore?" AT HIS SISTER'S CALLING HOURS WHILE SHE IS LYING THERE DEAD IN HER COFFIN. Now, he is nearly 10 years old at the time, and many of the 10-year-olds I have know have amazingly adult thought processes. Their brains are really beginning to function at this point. Admittedly, I have also know lots of 9-year-old boys who seem to have little brain power left at all to deal with anything besides soccer, computer games, Pokemon or similar stuff. But if you asked a question like that of a FIRST GRADER, the response would likely be "DUH! She's DEAD!" and a look of disbelief and disgust at your stupidity. Now, we have NEVER heard that Burke is stupid. I postulate this: the "does this mean..." question sounds very much TO ME like a "leading" type question asked by a child who KNOWS the answer, but is fishing to see if you have made the connection between his or her misbehavior and the result, as in "Does this mean I can't borrow the car anymore?", "Does this mean I can't jump off the top bannister anymore?" and so forth. What do you think? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "John's reply" Posted by South on 09:45:40 3/24/2000 that he would lie to protect Burke did just the opposite- it exposed Burke to speculation that that is exactly what he is doing- lying to protect Burke. Which is why I think it is a lie- he would use anyone to protect himself. A better lie would be "No, I would not lie to protect Burke. I believe that maintaining spiritual integrity is paramount. Hence, I would allow him to face the consequences of wrong actions." THIS lie would protect Burke and make John look good. Maybe he should hire me to be his spin advisor. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "How pathetic that the" Posted by fiddler on 11:03:32 3/24/2000 Ramseys would value a spin advisor far more than a spiritual advisor...but apparently true. As for Burke: I didn't realize he actually was diagnosed with Asperger's? Or is this just forum speculation? It could be true, but I think not all that relevant to the murder. If he really had Asperger's to the point where it was diagnosable, he wouldn't have formed close emotional attachments to anyone. He wouldn't have the capability to deceive, because he wouldn't have any conception of other people's minds or of emotion in general. He wouldn't have cared enough to fight with JBR in the first place--he probably would have avoided physical contact at all costs-- let alone realize the importance of covering it up. One of our friend's child has this, and you can read about it in Oliver Sacks' book "An Anthropologist on Mars". One of his pieces is about Temple Grandin, a professor at Colorado State University, who has this syndrome. I've heard her speak, too. You can tell right away she isn't "normal"--no guesswork necessary. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "About grins" Posted by Hyacinth on 15:38:57 3/24/2000 I just read on the "Ramseys Reconsider" thread a post by Seashell which says the Ramseys got $25 million from the Star on behalf of Burke. Did I read that right? I had not heard that before. I guess I'd grin inanely, too, if I was 13 and destined to come into that kind of money, courtesy of the tabloid media. This crime will probably never be solved if Burke did it. The huge settlement provides extra motivation for a confession later in life never to occur; not only could his parents go to prison for obstructing justice and being "accessories after the fact," but if Burke knows (as an adult) that confessing would force a repayment of $25 million dollars to the Star. . . a lifetime of silence is virtually guaranteed. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Asperger's" Posted by Zandra on 15:33:52 3/24/2000 Temple Grandin has a book out. I don't think we have any verification of Asperger's in Burke, only a story from somewhere much earlier that he is "slightly" autistic. If he is avoiding physical contact, that might explain the use of an "implement" to experiment with his sister. If he is detached from others emotionally, it might explain why he found it unnecessary to stop. All this is very speculative. I did not find anything in the description of Asperger's AT ALL that precluded Burke, from what we know of him. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "NYL corrected" Posted by Hyacinth on 18:10:52 3/24/2000 On the "Ramseys Reconsider" thread, NYL corrected that 25 million comment. Thank goodness it wasn't a 25 million settlement, but I am sorry that it didn't go to trial. Here's the post: 49. "NO WAY!" Posted by New York Lawyer on 16:03:45 3/24/2000 The Ramseys were lucky if they got $100,000. You would be shocked at how little the Ramseys settled for. The TV report talked about how much the Ramseys' SUED for, not how much they got. One of the reasons the settlement amount is secret is so that other potential media outlets don't laugh in the Ramseys' face and dare them to sue them. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Zandra--I think Temple Grandin is a noble person," Posted by fiddler on 18:58:07 3/24/2000 and I'm glad to hear from someone else who knows of her. What I meant was not that Burke (if autistic) couldn't do what was done to JBR, or would be in some way precluded from performing those actions. I just meant that someone with Asperger's--from what I've seen and read--wouldn't be interested in connecting with another person in the first place. Not that Burke couldn't play doctor, but that he would have no interest in doing so, or any curiosity about another person--as opposed to abstract knowledge. It seems more likely that if he felt curious, he'd go to the library or his computer, than to another actual human being. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "for fiddler..." Posted by Zandra on 16:42:23 3/25/2000 I was thinking that Burke may have viewed poking his sister with a stick to be little different from poking an inanimate object. She may have tolerated some poking because little sisters are usually happy to have attention from older brothers, up to a point. Anyhow, here is a link you may find interesting. It is an interview with Temple Grandin. http://amug.org/~a203/temple_blume.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Someone said ...." Posted by mandarin on 01:40:07 3/25/2000 .... and I agree, the missing videos and even the still photos from that '96 Christmas are very telling. The Hallmark family would NEVER have missed their Christmas photo ops. Patsy LIVED for Christmas, parades, pageants, dress-up. And can anyone believe that Mr. Big Shot CEO forgot to put the alarm on AND forgot to put batteries in the camera. Remember the Police picked up the Santa bear in those photos & the Rams feigned stupidity. Bet there were lots of incriminating photos and I'd bet $118,000 there was a video too. Even if they are telling the truth that there was no video this one particular year, then I'm more inclined to think that this was after all, a REALLY bad Christmas for them, stress filled, high drama & eventual rage. Good old CAP took every bit of incriminating evidence & ditched it. Bet she's waiting for her cut of the POS. Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "But About Burke ..." Posted by mandarin on 01:48:02 3/25/2000 Even if Burke did not have anything to do with this, he DEFINITELY knows what went on in that house. Make no mistake, children hear everything and if anything ever comes out from behind the Ramsey's facade, it will be via Burke's actions or words & the media will pick it up. He was whisked out of that house immediately by his father & never said a single word on the trip to Fleet White's home. Burke IS the key to the eventual truth. I don't know about the Asperber's - it seems to fly in the face of everything we've heard the Ramseys tell us about Burke, but then again how can anyone believe anything they say? Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Let's Play a Game..." Posted by Zandra on 14:36:32 3/25/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:36:32, 3/25/2000 Let's list some popular (and some not so popular) theories: 1. That JonBenet was killed by her brother, Burke 2. That she was killed by Bill McReynolds (Santa Claus) 3. That she was killed by her mother, Patsy 4. That she was killed by an intruder (other than McReynolds). We can do more if we like. Then let's list some things that we know about her death, and see if they fit the puzzle well, or not so well... A. JonBenet was found dead in her own house. 1. This works if she was killed by her brother 2. It makes less sense if she was killed by Santa. 3. Also works if she was killed by her mother. 4. Once again, less sense if she was killed by an unknown intruder. B. Her parents deny any knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances surrounding her death. 1. This makes lots of sense if she was killed by her brother, perhaps the most sense of any theory of how she died. 2. No sense at all if she was killed by Mr. McReynolds. If the Ramseys had even the slightest bit of real evidence that this is how she died, they would be screaming it from the rooftops. But nothing, nada. 3. It makes some sense if Patsy did the deed, but the question would be, why would John cover for his wife? Even the Ramseys feel that a parent would put a child before another parent. 4. Again, no sense if there really was an intruder. You might thing the family would have heard or found SOMETHING to report. C. JonBenet was found tied up in an odd way and molested with a broken stick. 1. Believable if this was done by slightly autistic pre-adolescent. 2. Pretty unbelievable if it was Santa. Doesn't seem like something he would do, even if he were capable of it. An old man, with no prior history. Very unlikely to be a first-time offender, at his age! 3. Doesn't seem like the kind of thing Patsy would do, even a deranged Patsy in a rage over bedwetting. 4. Who knows what kind of nutcase an intruder might be? Anything could happen. See how the game is played? Ok, I got tired of typing, but the interesting part for me is, that I can add items to list #1 OR list #2, but the results seem to be pretty consistent. YOU try it. Edited to correct a typo. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Zandra...Works For Me" Posted by La Contessa on 10:48:12 3/27/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:48:12, 3/27/2000 I have tried to fit the pieces of this case into every possible scenario with every possible perp. Burke did it is the only scanario where all of the pieces fit; no loose ends. It is the only one that explains John and Patsy's cohesiveness and their apparent truthfulness when they state, unequivically, they did not murder their daughter. But when asked if they would take a polygraph, they stutter and trip over thier words. If they didn't have SOME guilty knowledge of the murder and didn't cover it up, why this reaction to the polygraph question? In their book and the interviews we've seen they seem to be saying they have suffered enough, why is the media and the public being so cruel to them? Well I guess, if you have one child murdered and the other child, the murderer, whom you covered-up to protect, that is terrible suffering, indeed. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Zandra re Games ..." Posted by mandarin on 17:39:54 3/26/2000 Sounds like a fun exercise and I've tried myself, many times to envision different scenarios. Usually, the intruder theories peter out, no matter how hard I try to fit the pieces together. For example, someone like Santa, would be very recognizable walking or driving through the streets of Boulder AND he has so much white hair. The thought of this man climbing through a window undetected is beyond belief. Where did he park his bike? car? sled? Another example, given by Patsy is LHP. Now here's a lady who is quite obese and of course, her mode of entry would be a door, because she wouldn't fit through the window. From what I see of her on TV, she also does not use proper grammar, so the ransom note in no way resembles her common speech patterns. What's interesting is that Patsy only ever mentioned one perp and that is a female - LHP. John, on the other hand is the only one who mentions males (Santa & the others). Soooo .... since Patsy doesn't think Santa did it and John doesn't think LHP is the perp, these two are cancelled out by one or the other. John also mentioned that he is 99.9% certain that Burke did not kill Jonbenet. Reminds me of the ransom note where "you stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter". The fact that he has left even the tiniest bit of room for doubt is telling. I do wonder what the source of that fraction of doubt is all about? Still, I believe John was involved in the cover up, but at what point I am not sure. It's good to rethink some old suspects from time to time, but eveytime I go there, the damn note sticks out like a sore thumb. Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "br" Posted by Taylor on 18:07:00 3/26/2000 Several months ago, I copied some pictures that Burke had drawn and slipped them in the school psychologist's mailbox. I told her that this was not from anyone she knew, and no one from school. There were no identifying urls, etc. on the pictures. The psychologist was very quick to respond with the following: budding schizophrenia; hysteria.....or being in constant company with a hysterical person; sexual confusion; religious confusion.... The only scenario that has ever made sense to me had been the "cover-up" for Burke. Along with the MW information, and the tie to the Ramsey's friends, if indeed this is reliable, boys were abused, as well. In the one of the Owen's interviews, I seems to remember having read that he felt that no one would be indicted for this murder. My question to him would be to specify if this meant that the indictment would be attempted cover-up. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Taylor ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "taylor" Posted by pat on 07:25:50 3/27/2000 where did you get the pics to copy? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Burke" Posted by gaiabetsy on 10:35:40 3/27/2000 has always seemed like such a forgotten child by his parents. I hope I'm getting the wrong take on the situation because my heart goes out to him. He seems to be alone and would rather be that way. Perhaps he does have Asperger's, but I was sexually molested by my brother when I was very young, and to this day, I'd rather be alone than in a roomful of friends or family. Makes me wonder about him. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Gaiabetsy....Some Speculation" Posted by La Contessa on 10:52:22 3/27/2000 About a year ago, when I started posting on the JBR forums, one poster said Burke had been molested, as a toddler, by his nanny, who is old, now, and in a nursing home. Did anyone else hear this? Is there any truth to it? A child who has been sexually molested would have a natural distrust of people and like you, gaiabetsy, could well prefer to be alone. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "laContessa" Posted by fly on 11:13:36 3/27/2000 I've been following the forums since almost the beginning, and that is one rumor I have never heard. I doubt that it has any basis in fact. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "mandarin" Posted by shadow on 11:21:30 3/27/2000 "John also mentioned that he is 99.9% certain that Burke did not kill Jonbenet. Reminds me of the ransom note where "you stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter". The fact that he has left even the tiniest bit of room for doubt is telling." Actually, I believe this comment by JR was related to whether BR's voice was on the 911 tape - not about whether BR killed JBR or not! shadow [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE