Justice Watch Support JW "Enquirer--Thread Five" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Enquirer--Thread Five, LurkerXIV, 22:16:48, 3/22/2001 Whitefox, Pedro, 22:49:03, 3/22/2001, (#1) thanks, whitefox, 22:55:05, 3/22/2001, (#2) Lurker, momo, 23:13:11, 3/22/2001, (#3) my oh my oh my!, ayelean, 23:49:45, 3/22/2001, (#4) The Need for Speed..., Dunvegan, 01:13:35, 3/23/2001, (#5) Bull,, Holly, 05:22:18, 3/23/2001, (#6) Dunvegan-Your Ned Post, Diwi, 05:53:34, 3/23/2001, (#7) Diwi,, gaiabetsy, 06:14:49, 3/23/2001, (#8) We are to believe, 1000Sparks, 06:28:35, 3/23/2001, (#10) Gaiabetsy, Diwi, 06:25:22, 3/23/2001, (#9) Christians, v_p, 06:47:44, 3/23/2001, (#12) Oh, Diwi,, gaiabetsy, 06:41:50, 3/23/2001, (#11) Thanks for your efforts WY and..., Dr. Who, 07:37:30, 3/23/2001, (#14) And another thing, v_p, 07:21:36, 3/23/2001, (#13) One shot..., Diwi, 07:38:37, 3/23/2001, (#15) NE , DuBois, 08:02:19, 3/23/2001, (#16) That's a little like, Watching you, 08:23:03, 3/23/2001, (#18) how bout, freebird, 09:16:53, 3/23/2001, (#22) Pedro, Rose1, 08:21:38, 3/23/2001, (#17) .....oh my pedro, jonesy, 09:12:19, 3/23/2001, (#20) jonesy..., Pedro, 09:15:33, 3/23/2001, (#21) Rosie, Pedro, 09:06:18, 3/23/2001, (#19) Great Analysis, ayelean, LurkerXIV, 09:43:40, 3/23/2001, (#23) Awake vs. Asleep, Florida, 10:14:55, 3/23/2001, (#25) Ayelean, Cassandra, 10:10:49, 3/23/2001, (#24) Patsy said....., rose, 11:03:50, 3/23/2001, (#30) rose. Maybe Burke, Holly, 15:49:57, 3/23/2001, (#43) The clincher for me..., Ayeka, 10:39:16, 3/23/2001, (#28) Rosie..., Pedro, 10:38:30, 3/23/2001, (#27) Rosie..., Pedro, 10:43:15, 3/23/2001, (#29) Diwi..., Nedthan Johns, 12:19:49, 3/23/2001, (#31) Well, Ned, you don't believe that JBR......, sds, 13:20:32, 3/23/2001, (#32) Ned, Diwi, 13:28:14, 3/23/2001, (#33) Oh, come on ,Diwi, OJ........., sds, 13:33:35, 3/23/2001, (#34) SDS and Diwi, Nedthan Johns, 14:34:22, 3/23/2001, (#36) Sheesh!, JR, 14:13:59, 3/23/2001, (#35) JR, Nedthan Johns, 14:45:56, 3/23/2001, (#37) Ned, JR, 15:07:26, 3/23/2001, (#38) The article, momo, 15:28:49, 3/23/2001, (#40) Momo, mary99, 15:41:24, 3/23/2001, (#41) What did The NE mean, Mini, 15:20:24, 3/23/2001, (#39) Ned...., rose, 15:44:05, 3/23/2001, (#42) JR, Nedthan Johns, 16:44:12, 3/23/2001, (#44) Rose, Nedthan Johns, 16:46:22, 3/23/2001, (#45) Ned, momo, 17:11:17, 3/23/2001, (#46) Or, Momo..., Dunvegan, 18:56:41, 3/23/2001, (#47) Pity Pat, Pity Pot, Seashell, 14:37:31, 3/24/2001, (#48) Chip Ahoy, Seashell!, Edie Pratt, 14:42:09, 3/24/2001, (#49) ................................................................... "Enquirer--Thread Five" Posted by LurkerXIV on 22:16:48 3/22/2001 For our Web-TV'ers. Newsweek Interview, courtesy of janphi: From the Newsweek interview 3-19-00: [NW:] There is also a report that the tape of Patsy's 911 call to police that morning may also have captured the sound of your youngest son, Burke, asking, 'What is going on?' You told the police that Burke was upstairs asleep in bed when you called the police. JR: That 911 thing is a Red Herring. I have never heard it, but people have told me that at best it sounds like chipmunks. Not particularly intelligible. I'd like to see the media demand that the police release it. [NW:] Do you recall Burke coming down and you having any kind of conversation? JR: I have no recollection of that. At all. With 99.99 percent certainty that did not happen. PR: We saw him asleep in bed - we had run to check on him and he was asleep in his bed - and the next time I saw him was when I was sitting in the sunroom and he was walking down the front stairs with John and Fleet White to leave. JR: I remember we looked in on Burke and saw that he was asleep. My thought was that was where he needed to be; let's just leave him there. People said to me, 'Why didn't you wake him up and see if he knew anything?' That's bizarre. If Burke knew his sister had been taken he would have woken us up. He wouldn't go back to sleep. That never crossed my mind to wake him up and ask if he knew where his sister was. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Whitefox" Posted by Pedro on 22:49:03 3/22/2001 I did move this post here, you begin a thread that already existed :-). "Enquirer-thread 5" Posted by whitefox on 22:39:55 3/22/2001 I know many did not believe this, but may now. I heard this tape a long time ago, and only once. I do not remember what show it was, but heard it without a doubt. Some others here heard it also. Think it was quickly quelched by the Ram team. The Rams realize that it was heard, and will be again very soon, so are covering their bases, and making a little cash too. You know that Lin Wood was encouraging this, or it would not have been in his office. Also, that way, he could protect them from saying "too much". When you all hear the tape, you will see that it is audible, and not difficult to understand what is said and who said it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "thanks" Posted by whitefox on 22:55:05 3/22/2001 Pedro :) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Lurker" Posted by momo on 23:13:11 3/22/2001 I'll bet John left himself that .01% just in case he is proven wrong. I know he was talking to Burke on the 911 tape. It will surface. Then he'll say the traumatic situation at hand made him forget. I'm not surprised at anything the Rams do anymore. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "my oh my oh my!" Posted by ayelean on 23:49:45 3/22/2001 hasn't anyone missed me most of the day, boo hoo. I could only catch a minute here and there on the threads today, and had little or no time to post. I was going crazy! I think you guys have said it all in your posts and I have little to add. I sure have loved reading all this tonight. First let me go on record for telling everyone that Jams was out of the LOOP! I have been saying it for weeks! Next, I think the reason they went to the Enquirer is they are desparate to beat others to the punch. What someone said about learning from Clinton, getting caught in a lie isn't as painful if you divulge it before someone else does. LinmusthavelosthisWOODie when he heard that tape. He had to think of the fastest way possible to get the news out without really getting it out. Lots of the general public don't read or believe the Rags. Telling the INQuirer is a little like having your cake and eating it too. And the money don't hurt either, folks. One of the things I find the funniest is Patsy taking cookies for the event. LMAO I wonder what she'll bring for the execution? I'm surprised she didn't sing that 'Crazy' song. The pineapple, I've said this before, the pineapple is the dividing factor between one and both parents being the murderer. Only the murderer knows about the pineapple. It could never be admitted to, without the other parent being tipped off, because they made the mistake of feeding it to her when they were alone with her. When Nedra stayed with Patsy where did PaPaugh sleep when he visited? With John? With JAR? With Patsy? With Nedra in a twin bed? Just trying to get a visual here. Remember that is when JB regressed in her toileting. What would be the reasoning to lie about Burke being awake? Why wasn't it ok in PR and JR's mind to say Burke was awake. Obviously they didn't want him awake, and if they didn't want him awake it means they didn't need his input. Is it what they were talking about before they knew he was awake they don't want us to hear? How are they going to keep him silent? If they never talked to him about the murder how did Burke come up with that story he said he was told about someone had a knife and took JB. Wasn't that talking about it? How does John know Burke woke up when Patsy screamed, John was suppose to be in the shower when Patsy screamed. Ned--a while back you mightily defended the idea that Burke was never heard on the tape, so now that we know they lied about it, you say, 'So because they lied doesn't make them murderers.' A while back you mightily defended Patsy bleaching JB's hair and when it was established that it was so, you said 'So because she lied about JB's hair doesn't make her a murderer.' Then when someone said the dna couldn't be someones blood because someone couldn't bleed that little bit, and you said someone could have cut their finger and got one drop of blood on her panties. Ned, one drop of blood is a thousand times more than that suggestion of a dna deposit we are talking about. Mee too--I might be able to help you with your webtv loading problem, try emailing me at my ayelean@webtv.net addy. More when I think of it. Thank you WY for posting this so fast. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "The Need for Speed..." Posted by Dunvegan on 01:13:35 3/23/2001 Just one of my favorite quotes from the Enquirer article: "Both John and Patsy expressed a stunning ignorance about the most notable line in the ransom note, which reads, "Don't try to grow a brain, John." "Even though references to the line have appeared in published reports many times since JonBenet's murder, they said they were totally unaware that the words are nearly an exact repeat of a line from the movie "Speed." "'Oh, is that from that movie?" asked Patsy, her eyes opening wide.' John admitted he had seen the film but insisted there's no way he could have remembered the line. "'I watched part of 'Speed' on an airline one day -- without the headphones. All I see is this bus.'" ...Perhaps this is where John got his inspiration to throw people under such a vehicle... Some serious evidence against the Ramseys must be coming together well: (1) Someone must have pulled records showing John's business flights, and what in-flight movies were showing when he was flying...to see if John had any exposure to any of the movies that are quoted in the note. To place John in such a position that it can be proven he was sitting (I hope they subpoena whoever sat next to him that day...and ask them if John used his headphones. Plus, John's must have flown coach, as first-class gets movies for free.) (2) They's heard the enhanced 911 tape...and, sure enough, there's Burke in the background...provable via voiceprint. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Bull," Posted by Holly on 05:22:18 3/23/2001 I could always tell when my kids were feigning sleep. Did they turn on a light and actually look at the little guy? I would have gotten a nine year old up and said , "Help us, your sister is gone. Did you hear anything?" Wasn't he supposed to be up anyway? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Dunvegan-Your Ned Post" Posted by Diwi on 05:53:34 3/23/2001 Responding to your post in the previous thread on this topic, it was interesting to see some old writing of mine, and Ned's response at the time. It's funny what passing time can do to folk's beliefs and opinions, no? But I really think the issue here is beneath the surface. Ned may have, over time, swung in the other direction, but I think my own thoughts and ideas have been pretty consistent. I think the Rams are innocent. I strongly believe that, not because of my personal feelings about the case and the many issues it raises (politics, money, media, public perceptions and private lives), but because there is no compelling hard evidence or facts which lead me to construct a believable scenario by which I can see the Ram's doing this. Most notably, what is lacking most to me is a motive. Not only for the crime, but its coverup. Some of the things anti-Rams have John and/or Patsy doing, writing that ridiculous note, staging and acting, pathologically lying, etc., are just not credible to me. They don't fit with the Ram's personal history, and they don't fit with any kind of human psychology and behavior I'm familar with. One basically has to posit the Rams as quite mad, in order to have them do all they must have, if they are indeed guilty. But (despite my critic's appraisal), I have tried to state my take on this case clearly from the beginning, and I think it's been a calm and cool, fair and logical one. I am not a Ramsey supporter but when they do/act in clearly suspicious or questionable ways, I will call a spade a spade. The Atlanta intruder story, coming right when they were sued, seemed too coincidental for me, and it was a "red flag." One could interpret the story reasonably as a possible means towards gaining public sympathy and taking the heat out of a hot kitchen. Then the Star story, and John's refusal to part with a measily $3000 to possibly break the case wide open, catch the perp, and bring justice for Jon Benet. Another red flag, because John and his counsel gave the story itself (and caller) a lot of credibility. My thoughts at the time (and they still remain unaddressed in a satisfactory way from the more die-hard pro-Rams), are that John's "refusal" could reasonably be interpreted as either a tacit, subconscious or not, admission that there WAS no "break" in that caller's story,b because the Rams are the perps. At best, it made me question the Ram's sincerity in actually wishing to bring justice for their dead daughter. You are a millionaire, someone calls admitting they did it and gives enough details to make YOU believe they are credible, and then you "refuse" to part with a tiny percentage of your wealth? Doesn't make any sense to me. In the aftermath of that, the Rams and their team, and their more vocal supporters, shifted the blame in this from them, to the "authorities." Yes, you guessed it, those SAME authorities they have been criticizing and condemning all along. I thought (and still do) this absurd. Rationalizing nonsense, and "denial." Now the NE thing. Another red flag to me. All of this time, they have been blasting these tab rats (and make no mistake, I hate the tabs and the people who make their living this way), but what do they do? They sit down cordially with the devil. What does this say about ANY comments they have made in the past, condemning the tabs? It tells me they have been, ahem, a bit insincere at best. And if they were about this, maybe they are being that in other areas of the case. This to me IS a "break" in the case, however, it is on a very subtle level and it deals with the sociological and psychological issues. The Burke thing is meaningless. Just another inconsistency which only proves they are human beings. I also have never understood expectations people want to affix to others to remember details in times of severe trauma. Anyone who's experienced such will know exactly what I mean. No, there is no real "evidence" here, nothing substantial to make me lean in the other direction. All these recent events however, have been red flags to me, that something is seriously wrong with these folks. At the very least, ANY criticism they level at ANY tab (or even the mainstream media), will not pass my giggle test. Yet, I think Ned's past emotional outbursts which were directed my way, should be thought about by both sides, in a deeper way. As Ned replied to me in such a way, just recently, a lot of you went ballistic on him, even forcing it all in the WO room for fun and games. So there's a lesson here, and it's not to be made light of in my view, because it deals with a lot of what's going on deep inside us all. We all sincerely wish to see justice here (anti and pro-Ram alike). But the only way that's going to happen, in a civilized country, in a land of laws, is if we step back from our own "schtick" now and then, and try to look at things from the "other" point of view. I remember Ned's post, but was surprised to see that it was Ned. Thought it was someone else, frankly. But it goes to show me that my reactions back then and now, are pretty much the same. It doesn't really matter to me, these "hats" we wear, but the reason and logic we bring to discussion and dialogue about this case. Ned's anti-Ram rhetoric at the time, washed over me and left me cold. The recent (mostly emotional) attacks on him however, did the same. What I said back then however, remains pretty much the way I feel now. This case is NOT going to be solved, and no justice forthcoming for Jon Benet, by appealing to our emotions. The real story here is not within the pages of the National Enquirer. It's in how WE, as people who have a strong stake and interest in this case, allow our logic and reason to prevail. Now, in JW, all the over the top (to me) anti-Ram rhetoric is as silly as is the pro-Ram apologists elsewhere. To many of you, Ned has become that in here, but I wouldn't be too quick to judge. That, in essence, has been my own view on the case from the beginning, boiled down to the most basic sociological/psychologica/political ideas. We simply do NOT have enough real information here to "judge" anything, yet. What the Rams sitting down with the NE says to me, is that Ned's vehement anti-Ram all caps response then, and many in JW's approach to his turn-around, is an indication that a lot of us truly don't know WHAT this case is all about. I have no problem in admitting my doubts and confusion, either way. When someone preaches hard knowledge of something however, in which they really do not have such (and the Ramsey case is only one example of this in our society), I look more at their own psychology than I do at what they are trying to say. What am I trying to say? Hell if I know. I'll stop blabbing now and have that fifth cup of java. :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Diwi," Posted by gaiabetsy on 06:14:49 3/23/2001 I'm with you. This case will never be solved with hard evidence, AND HENCE, the Rams will never see the inside of a jail cell. They were lucky. However, the evidence lies in their psychological make-up as far as I'm concerned. Trouble with that is SO WHAT? So they are badmouthed by a lot of posters. It's that old "sticks and stones" thing. They are still free, they DO OBVIOUSLY have plenty of money, they'll probably live to ripe old ages. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "We are to believe" Posted by 1000Sparks on 06:28:35 3/23/2001 that the Rams never talked to Burke about THAT night? that they found out AFTER the GJ? I guess they are a close Christian family. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Gaiabetsy" Posted by Diwi on 06:25:22 3/23/2001 No, I think the only way the case WILL be solved, will be with "hard evidence." In cases like this however, the impatience and frustration of common folks like us, is part of the problem. If and when the Rams are finally charged, it will be because the authorities will have gathered enough "hard evidence" to make their case stick. Perhaps that is what they are doing already, and perhaps that's why the Rams were/have been criticizing them for so long. Give it time, people... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Christians" Posted by v_p on 06:47:44 3/23/2001 One of the (ex) manager's on one of our proprerties was a "christian." In fact, the first day I met her she told me so within the first five minutes. Went on for days about how she prayed about her property and her new position. I tracked her Supervisor down and told her she would have to keep a close eye on that one. Fast forward 3 months ... said Christian has been terminated for misappropriation of company funds. Sometimes waving that Christian flag is a convenient way to sugar coat your chit. You're right Sparky, if they were true Christians they would have talked about it and prayed about it together. My God, he would have to be scared to death the same thing would happen to him, unless he knew his parents were responsible ... then he'd only be scared to death to ask questions or make waves. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Oh, Diwi," Posted by gaiabetsy on 06:41:50 3/23/2001 how I hope you are right! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Thanks for your efforts WY and..." Posted by Dr. Who on 07:37:30 3/23/2001 all the buckaroos and cowgirls that are making this thread one of the more intersting and entertaining things those of us following this tragedy have had to read in a while... I guess with the Wolf and Hoffman-Paugh civil suits NYL has in the ringer and the much leaked Ram->Thomas civil litigation "coming soon" the Rams are hard at work "lie-proofing" their various testimonies, trying to "tighten-up" those not so little inconsistancies they seem to never be able to work through and/or out of... They seem to do a great job of never being aware of that parallel reality gaft between their spin and their actions...most recently exampled by their home invasion, thwarted robbery...(approx.) four years after having their daughter brutally murdered in their home while they slept. I believe they have said they feel [have been?] "threatened" by someone/people and still fail to use their home alarm system and have firearms in their home that are not secured? Not a good thing to have easily accessible firearms visavis their claim in this Enquirer interview [held at their attorney' office] they now fear for Burke and his potential future mental anguish [of having his sister killed, et. al.?] I guess Darney and ST's attorneys will have to ask Burk and LHP if they can recall Nedra sleeping in JBR's room everynight the R's are now claiming as they work to close off that potential incest "problem" ... Interesting reading... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "And another thing" Posted by v_p on 07:21:36 3/23/2001 Why would Burke pretend to be asleep? I used to pretend to be asleep when my step-father was mad and raising hell. But if I were to hear my mother's horrifying scream coming from another room I'd be there in a second, scared to death, wondering what the hell was going on. Burke was pretending to be asleep because he was scared...if he was pretending. Why did he pretend to be asleep? I think it's because he didn't want something to happen to him ... I think he was afraid if they knew he knew what happened, he'd be next. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "One shot..." Posted by Diwi on 07:38:37 3/23/2001 Anyone truly interested in seeing justice for Jon Benet, must temper their emotions with the utmost in patience. Any official criminal charges made against the Ramseys, have to be as airtight as possible, because they're only going to get one shot at this. I think that's why no indictment has been forthcoming, yet. Let's face it, if and when they are ever charged, they are going to have the best defense money can buy. And the reality is (and why nothing was done after the Grand Jury), there simply IS no winnable case here, yet. I think anyone who really feels the parents are guilty, should realize that. With the state of the evidence/facts we all know now, the Ramseys would be acquitted very quickly and easily in any criminal trial, and if they are guilty, that would be the ultimate tragedy for Jon Benet's memory in the case. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "NE " Posted by DuBois on 08:02:19 3/23/2001 Didn't they merge with the other tabs out there? They just settled with one, and it was reported that they both were happy with the settlement. Maybe part of the settlement was that they give an interview. If you look at it as part of a settlement, they would have been paid. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "That's a little like" Posted by Watching you on 08:23:03 3/23/2001 feeding the dog that bit you, or whatever. The Rams have been consistent in their attacks against the media, specifically the tabloids, and now Patsy is serving them cookies with green frosting and hugging their reporter? Give me a freaking break. This is just too too much. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "how bout" Posted by freebird on 09:16:53 3/23/2001 ...paying your rapist for services rendered! Good lord, only Patsy would give cookies and affection to 'their tormentors' ...Stepford wife indeed [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Pedro" Posted by Rose1 on 08:21:38 3/23/2001 "You had better learn good manners"?????EXCUSE ME?? I don't take kindly to threats, Pedro. If you read here as a moderator, you will see that " I " am quite versed in manners. I was also quite versed in manners at Jams forum too. She has deleted me much earlier for reasons only of anger. She does not like that I post here, or anywhere else. I can and have gone head to head with her on case - SHE can't hack it. I suggest that if you care to write something to me like you did on the other thread, and care about people as individuals here, where you "moderate", then you can email me anytime at writerose@home.com. I will be more than happy to converse with you there - threats, are not a good thing, and nothing, IMO, that should be posted on such a forum as this. Thank you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. ".....oh my pedro" Posted by jonesy on 09:12:19 3/23/2001 ....did you threaten 'the rose of many hats' mayhaps you forgot she is joined at the hip with...jeanilou...LOL ..carrion - [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "jonesy..." Posted by Pedro on 09:15:33 3/23/2001 ...I don't know her from before, I give her a warning and she answered back. That's all. :-) Still be biten here since Wednesday, Jonesy don't you have a job for her? she's meaner than you!!! Pedro [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Rosie" Posted by Pedro on 09:06:18 3/23/2001 Your post asking Who's Pedro... and answering by yourself with wrong information and wrong assumptions was a prove of bad manners to me, most coming from a new poster at JW. I answered your post in the place where you did post about me, is my right. I advice you to became familiar with a forum before you judge or talk about any of its members because you don't know who they are or what they do contribute to our community. You don't like me to correct you in public? Fine, just don't attack me in public when I give you a warning, just follow it, period. I don't argue my moderating decisions with you, nor I have to. Please read the house rules, we aren't here to discuss how other webmasters run their forums, we aren't interested in a conflict with them unless they hurt JW. JW isn't the place to argue with other webmasters about your deleted posts, e-mail them and deal with it in any other way. Understand that only the fact that you seems unfamiliar with who' who and the rules here made me not delete your posts. Pedro [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Great Analysis, ayelean" Posted by LurkerXIV on 09:43:40 3/23/2001 I wondered where you were when this news was breaking. You have those Ramseys down "Pat". I think Mary Keenan should hire you as her case researcher and profiler when the Rams are prosecuted! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Awake vs. Asleep" Posted by Florida on 10:14:55 3/23/2001 This whole scenario has bothered me all along and is one of the reasons (in a long line) I lean toward their guilt. Why wouldn't these parents awaken Burke and ask if he heard anything? Why wouldn't Burke ask his parents what was going on? I can't imagine any of my children not jumping up, coming out of their bedrooms and asking what was going on if they heard me screaming. They would have been right in the middle wanting to know what had happened. There is no way any of them would have stayed in their rooms and hidden the fact they were awake. The Ramseys supposedly had a close, loving family with excellent relationships with all their children. According to all reports, JonBenet and Burke were not overly disciplined and were not in fear of their parents - so why would Burke be afraid to come out of his room that morning? Why would he hide the fact he was awake when they came into his room? What would cause a 9 year old boy to not even ask a question about something that was obviously wrong in his home? Now that they've admitted that he was awake it seems to pose more questions than it answers and it makes the family dynamics that day appear more wierd than before (if that's possible). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Ayelean" Posted by Cassandra on 10:10:49 3/23/2001 I posted on Darby's thread "Are the Ramseys up to something?" with some of the same points you made here on this thread. Love your possible sleeping arrangement suggestions. Wonder where he was? I am still puzzled by his travel plans for Xmas '96. "Something wrong there", to me. Cassie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Patsy said....." Posted by rose on 11:03:50 3/23/2001 When Burke walked down the stairs with Fleet and John that morning she said she was in the sun room. Did she go to Burke before he left the house with Fleet? Did Burke go in to see her and seek comfort from his mother before he left? Or did he just walk out the door with Fleet and go? I feel so sorry for this child if his parents have not addressed his fears and questions about his sisters murder. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "rose. Maybe Burke" Posted by Holly on 15:49:57 3/23/2001 had a stun gun to his back. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "The clincher for me..." Posted by Ayeka on 10:39:16 3/23/2001 From the Enquirer: Even though references to the line have appeared in published reports many times since JonBenet's murder, they say they were totally unaware that the words are nearly an exact repeat of a line from the movie, "Speed." "Oh, is that from that movie?" asked Patsy, her eyes opening wide. Compare this to the article (dated August, 1997) linked on Maw Brady's page: http://www.bouldernews.com/extra/ramsey/1997/08/15-1.html Boulder County District Attorney Alex Hunter said Thursday he objects to the Ramsey family using in an advertisement movie lines that may have been part of a ransom note. A spokeswoman for the Ramsey family said Thursday that a full-page ad will run in Sunday's Camera with lines from the movies "Dirty Harry," "Speed" and "Ransom" - the latter a movie about the kidnapping of a child. It's true that lying doesn't make one a murderer, but it doesn't cast one in a good light, either. Ayeka, Emphasis mine [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Rosie..." Posted by Pedro on 10:38:30 3/23/2001 ...again, read the house rules, you can't post about otehr forum issues nor about other forum posters. I give you before a warning, a nice one reminding you of the house rules. By implications I make reference to your judgement of *Who's Pedro...?* . Please, delete your previous post to me with in 10 minutes. Thanks Pedro [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Rosie..." Posted by Pedro on 10:43:15 3/23/2001 ...I warned you very nicely, you are atrouble maker, and ISN"T MY PLACE TO MODERATE JAMESON'S FORUM. BTW: YES, MY SPELL IS POOR, CONSIDERING THAYT I SPEAK 7 LENGUAJES AND ENGLISH IS THE WORST ONE... Ok, fine now. Pedro [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Diwi..." Posted by Nedthan Johns on 12:19:49 3/23/2001 Good post, I think :0) I have to agree with you regarding the red flags. I have to disagree with you on the status of the Rams finances however. I doubt with the amount of money they have put out for lawyers, investigators and such they are still millionaires. They have sold their home in Mich. and their plane, and I can't imagine there is much less after 4 1/2 years of lawyer bills, expecially since John is funding them for every member of the family. I agree that they are "odd" people and have handle this situation in a far different way then I would have. I however still beleive they are most likely innocent and agree with you regarding the strangeness of this case. I just looked at the photos again in the DOI book, and especially at the photos of Melinda, JB's sister. I just can't imagine that the parents together murdered JB. I have ruled John completely out, and I think the allegations of prior sexual abuse are just that allegations. I really do not beleive she was molested prior to this case by her father. I am not 100% convinced of Patsy's non involvement. But I still hold on to that DNA evidence and think without a doubt it is somehow linked to the case. However to consider the Patsy done it scenario, one would have to think that John has chosen to cover and protect his wife, and to me this is just not reasonable. No matter how odd they appear and the strangeness of their comments in the press, I can now longer believe what I hear, considering the course is a tabloid, even if the parents chose to sit down with them. They have told us nothing we don't already know. I am waiting for this civil trail, and really wish this would be televised, because this is the one case we could all learn from. There was nothing to learn in the OJ case, we all knew he did it, it was watching pure injustice in our system, the Ramsey case however is a real Who dun It mystery, and I think a lot can be learned by watching this procedure. I actually think the Ramsey's would be in favor of it being televised. I wish the judge would re-consider. I am looking forward to this law suit, no matter what it brings, becasue I think both sides will have the best of experts, and that means the truth will most likely prevail. But as you stated Diwi, what we all want on both sides is justice for JonBenet. I feel that justice is served when ALL questions are answered. I am so glad that at least this child hasn't been forgotten and if the Ramsey's have to face years of civil suits, then they should do so, if this means getting at the truth. The real tradgedy in all this is what if they really are innocent, and after years and millions of dollars spent on "getting them" the real killer is out there running free, and perhpas murdering again. That's why it is so important to me to study ALL the evidence, it cannot be simply dismissed as accidental. We HAVE the Ramsey's in my opinion, they aren't going anywhere, we know where they are and what they are doing. Now how horrible is it to think they are innocent and the real perpertrator is free, his indentity unknown. That is what bothers me. I want that DNA explained, even if it did come from an innocent construction worker 3 years before the crime. Find who it belongs to. Explain the facts, then you solve the case. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Well, Ned, you don't believe that JBR........." Posted by sds on 13:20:32 3/23/2001 was molested prior to this night by her father, but do you believe that she was molested at all prior to that night? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Ned" Posted by Diwi on 13:28:14 3/23/2001 Overall, I find your writing and thinking pretty good (at least more recently), but when you said: "There was nothing to learn in the OJ case, we all knew he did it, it was watching pure injustice in our system-" I have to make a strong objection to that. I'm not in here to discuss the Simpson case, and I started a thread in the true crime area for that if you care to engage in any dialogue about it. I'm not 100 percent convinced of anything, even if I exist, but I'm about 90 or so percent convinced after almost 7 years of intensive and thorough research into the OJ case, that he is innocent. I'm always wary of the "we" you use above. I am not part of any "we," I am an individual, and no one "thinks" for me. If you believe the Ramseys innocent, I'm sure you will catch my drift in the objection I raise. It's the same as if someone said (including you), "we all know the Ramseys are guilty." Get it? Simpson is in all likliehood, totally innocent of the crimes he was charged with. These two cases are very similar, and you may want to check out an article I posted in true crime about the OJ case and "cyberspace." Back then, the net was only just beginning, but I was a part of it all with that case, till present. Today, in many ways I feel the JBR case is OJ2: The Sequel. Best to keep as steady a course in any of these "unsolved" cases, whether it be OJ, JFK, Jeffrey McDonald (check out a new book on that case called "Fatal Justice" if you wish a different slant on the popular myth of that one), of Jon Benet. We are in the midst here of a learning experience, Ned. That's a lifetime thing, ya know? I agree with most everything else you wrote. I would love to know the Ramsey's wealth at present, if anyone can find that out. The $3000 thing is still the most disturbing recent event to me. To give a story credibility and not then fork that over? Unreal. Now the NE thing. Nothing really which changes the basic facts here, only our perceptions. But I happen to think that's most of the ballgame in cases like this anyway. Not the reality of them, only our perception of it. I digress... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "Oh, come on ,Diwi, OJ........." Posted by sds on 13:33:35 3/23/2001 innocent? Surely you jest with the mountain of dna evidence that linked him to the crime? How do you explain Ron and Nicole's blood being in his Jeep Cherokee and fibers from the same car being all over the murder scene? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "SDS and Diwi" Posted by Nedthan Johns on 14:34:22 3/23/2001 SDS: I do not beleive that JB was sexually asulted prior to the murder. And Thomas's claims that Patsy asulted her down in her private area as some sort of corporal punishment is ludacris. Diwi: Not to argue the OJ case, but it's clear we are entirely on the opposite site regarding opinion on that case. However I must say I see no relation what's so ever to the Ramsey's case. They are night and day. The Ramsey case is a real who dun it. OJ in my opinion manipulated the system and won. But besides that, you are right I should not refer to "we" in my statements. Therefore let me re-phrase. It's still to early for me to be convinced one way or the other regarding the Ramsey's guilt or innocence, but I am leaning towards the later. The NE thing is odd, however I take it with a grain of salt and the story is just a re-hash. The $3,000 extortion plan from the inmate, does not at all strike me as odd, because you have to remember this is a nortorious crime, I can't imagine how many sickos and wackos have tried calling the Ramsey's for whatever reason. It's common sense for JR to be wary. Perhaps he could have suggested to the man to purchase the flight tickets over the phone if that's what the money was really for, but if anyone out of the blue called me up and claimed to have murdered my daughter and then asked for money, I'd be weary too, no matter how rich I was. The fact is if the man wanted to turn himself in, he didn't need cash to do it. I think that was John's biggest tip off he was a weirdo. I don't see anything telling about it, and it doesn't lesson the fact that the Ramsey's want the murderer caught. As it turns out they did find this man and he was a fraud, so I guess John did the right thing by not caving it to his request for extortion. I would think no matter what, the Ramsey's life has to be a living hell. Whether they are innocent or not. To have to deal with this every day of their lives, and crazy sickos crawling out of the wood work. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Sheesh!" Posted by JR on 14:13:59 3/23/2001 Diwi - perhaps the plan is to allow acquittal in the criminal trial and seek conviction in a civil trial - instant replay of another widely publicized trial. sds writes - "Oh, come on ,Diwi, OJ innocent?" With careful research you might have room for reasonable doubt in this case. One question - Do you really believe evidence is never planted? Ned...Ned...Ned... one more time i before e except after c (in most cases) but all of that aside, please refrain from using "we" or preface it with IMO. "There was nothing to learn in the OJ case." I personally think anyone with an open mind is always learning. Yes, there were things to learn, secure the area, don't contaminate the crime scene - gather ALL of the evidence, rewrite police procedure (if need be) and train your officers - among other things. IMHO! Florida - It's hard to keep an open mind when almost every action by the Rams has been questionable. They immediately call the police when told not to, they don't take advantage of John's workplace security department (been there - done that and know the "rules"), they don't leave the crime scene in tack and un-contaminated (maybe they are one of the few families in American that never watched anything on the Simpson trial?), they don't wake their other child assuring he is safe and unharmed and has no idea where their child is, they try to leave town immediately after the discovery of their daughters body in their own home (I personally would worry about a malfunction or bomb on my private plane at that point), they lawyer up immediately, they appear on public T.V. rather than hound the BPD (cooperation - I think not but I'll allow room for not having all the facts), they have friends protect their remaining child (living at home) rather than experienced security folks, they don't alarm their house after having a child murdered in their home (I alarmed mine immediately after being burglarized an never fail to set my alarm almost 5 years later and in a new State and town which is considered very low crime), they take numerous vacations and write book but don't take the time to sit in the BPD station on a daily basis begging them to catch the killer of "hat child," they call their beloved daughter "that child" rather than by name or our child or precious daughter, they never show anger at the possibility that their 6 year old daughter was molested - in fact they mostly fail to address it - most fathers would have murder in their eye at that one thought!, they take (in PR's case several before passing) polygraphs some 4 years after the fact - not immediately, they sue the tabs then talk to the tabs (contradition in ethics at best) they spin, twist and wring everything they have said previously inside out and then are appalled that the public doesn't believe them...I could go on and on and on and on and on... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "JR" Posted by Nedthan Johns on 14:45:56 3/23/2001 Oh please don't. Go on and on and on. After reading DOI I see what they did in an entirely new light. They were faced with incompetence and a police force that was inapt to handle this sort of crime. They were criminals in the BPD eyes from day one. How many times can one say they didn't do it? Yes they were given privledges but by all means the BPD gave it to them. I think the evidence speaks for itself, and anything the Ramsey's did after the crime is a result of the situation they were faced with, and that was a bunch of investigators who didn't know up from down. Again if the BPD wants to see a conviction in this case, have them gets their butts out there and determine where that male DNA came from. Really now how many males were there in the Ramsey basment during the time they lived there? How many males did JB come in contact shortly before the crime scene? Investigative work 101. If you want to catch the killer you've got to follow the leads. I would love to hear nothing more then the BPD say, hey guess what we found a construction worker that worked on the Ramsey home 3 years prior to the murder and guess what he has an alabi for the night of the 25th. But it looks as if he is a possible match for that DNA. Same genetic markers # 1,2,3, and after all he was in that windowless room, where he remembers cutting himself and he bled, and perhaps JB's panties came in contact with his old dried blood as she laid on the cold floor and her blood mixed with his, and left that stain on her crotch panties. I would love nothing more JR. But it's up to the BPD to get the job done [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Ned" Posted by JR on 15:07:26 3/23/2001 To my knowledge there is no official acknowledgement that this was male DNA but then I havn't followed the case as closely lately due to life complications. However, if you believe what was said in DOI then have I told you about this bridge I have for sale in Brooklyn? ;-\ [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "The article" Posted by momo on 15:28:49 3/23/2001 I just went back and read the article in the Enquirer. I think it's very telling that John said that when a child grows up and keeps things inside that around 40 years old it comes up and it hurts. It sounds more like he's talking about Patsy than Burke. She was just about to be 40 when JonBenet was murdered. Did Patsy lose it because of things from her childhood and the fact that she was stressed out from the holidays and about to be 40? That comment from John jumped out at me. I think you know who molested Patsy when she was a little girl and I think her mother turned the other way. I also think Patsy knew what John was doing to JonBenet. I think if Patsy did murder JonBenet then John is standing by her side because she has molestation on him. Of course, it is pretty obvious that there was prior sexual abuse. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Momo" Posted by mary99 on 15:41:24 3/23/2001 You know who I thought of when JR made that remark? Who has come out at age 37 to unload the motherload of lifetime abuse? No wonder JR is worried. Kids can be controlled, frightened, intimidated. Even as adults, they repress bad memories. But only for so long. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "What did The NE mean" Posted by Mini on 15:20:24 3/23/2001 when it described John as looking weary? It seems to be a very subjective description and unnecessary for the content of the interview. Was it a euphemism or if he was so weary-looking that they felt they had to comment on it, then why? Surely with his down-scaled lifestyle he should be able to get plenty of rest. He didn't appear to be weary in his interviews after the intruder. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "Ned...." Posted by rose on 15:44:05 3/23/2001 I know 6 million dollars does not go as far as it did, but give me a break, the Ramseys are not broke except maybe on paper. You are smarter than that Ned! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "JR" Posted by Nedthan Johns on 16:44:12 3/23/2001 To my knowledge there is no official acknowledgement that this was male DNA but then I havn't followed the case as closely lately due to life complications. However, if you believe what was said in DOI then have I told you about this bridge I have for sale in Brooklyn? ;-\ Nedd: JR, my comment about DOI was that the Ramsey's explained to me their reasonings for not cooperating. When in actuallity they did. I saw nothing wrong about their actions, but then again that's my opinion. I'm not stating the book is factual, just thier side of things. I tend to look at what is instead of what isn't or what may have been. What is, is the male DNA. Side step around it all one wants, it's still there. Although it wasn't stated in concrete, if it wasn't male they certainly wouldn't be clearing male suspects from it, nor suggesting it doesn't belong to John Ramsey. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "Rose" Posted by Nedthan Johns on 16:46:22 3/23/2001 I know 6 million dollars does not go as far as it did, but give me a break, the Ramseys are not broke except maybe on paper. You are smarter than that Ned! Nedd: Well with what lawyers charge these days, I would be surprised if the Ramsey's had a cent left. Were talking about 4 1/2 years here of services, not to mention investigators. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. " Ned" Posted by momo on 17:11:17 3/23/2001 Didn't someone make mention recently of the money that the Ramseys owe their attorneys and investigators? They have plenty of money, they're just not wanting to part with it. Another thing, I wonder what Haddon, et al thinks about the recent interview? They must be shaking their heads and thankful that they no longer represent those two idiots. Mary99, that PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) always comes out about 25 to 30 years later. And try as someone might, there is no stopping it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Or, Momo..." Posted by Dunvegan on 18:56:41 3/23/2001 ...maybe a promise has been exacted from the poor boy that Burke will not tell what he knows, until the perps are both deceased. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "Pity Pat, Pity Pot" Posted by Seashell on 14:37:31 3/24/2001 Wow, I'm finally am catching up a bit. I see the Ramsey humor is still going strong with contradictions, minimizing and half-timers disease. Did Burke say that he pretended to be asleep? Maybe he was scared he'd be next. Of course, the Rams are worried about him blowing up and shooting them with those unlocked firearms they keep around. Maybe they're subconsciously inviting that. Even with "chemo brain," I can see right thru those liars. They're so pathetic, but they keep me laughing. I think they're either afraid he'll rat on them or they're planning on throwing him under the bus that JR saw but didn't hear - and now it's coming for him! Has the focus of the investigation shifted to him or at least them? It's about time. And now I'll celebrate this new depth of the RamGrave with a chocolate chip cookie. I lead such a wild life! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Chip Ahoy, Seashell!" Posted by Edie Pratt on 14:42:09 3/24/2001 so nice to see your bad self, and glad you're doing all you can to stay well. How's your painting coming along? Missed ya:-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]