Justice Watch Support JW "Newseum Transcript 2" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Newseum Transcript 2, Dunvegan, 23:04:11, 3/24/2001 Newseum Transcript (2 of 3), Dunvegan, 23:07:21, 3/24/2001, (#1) Red flag..., dustii, 03:05:17, 3/25/2001, (#2) very interesting , luvsflowers, 06:26:19, 3/25/2001, (#3) Thanks Dun..., Country Girl, 08:08:45, 3/25/2001, (#4) Dunvegan and Luvs, momo, 08:13:41, 3/25/2001, (#5) They don't discuss, v_p, 08:51:16, 3/25/2001, (#6) Momo...that's the reason I'm transcribin..., Dunvegan, 10:17:40, 3/25/2001, (#7) Dunvegan, ayelean, 10:40:27, 3/25/2001, (#9) I'll tell you what I'm waiting for:, gaiabetsy, 10:31:06, 3/25/2001, (#8) bless your little fingers, Dun, Edie Pratt, 12:51:13, 3/25/2001, (#10) Truly Amazing Dunvy ....., Mandarin, 13:54:23, 3/25/2001, (#13) My Header: What Edie Said First, janphi, 13:39:58, 3/25/2001, (#12) janphi!, LurkerXIV, 14:13:45, 3/25/2001, (#15) Thank you, LurkerXIV, janphi, 17:07:59, 3/25/2001, (#21) Yes, Lurker...I did have an extraordinar..., Dunvegan, 17:26:36, 3/25/2001, (#23) Thanks so much, Dunvegan!, LurkerXIV, 13:39:49, 3/25/2001, (#11) LOL...Lurker..., Dunvegan, 14:17:26, 3/25/2001, (#16) if they were TRUELY innocent, Edie Pratt, 14:09:40, 3/25/2001, (#14) luvsflower and Dunvegan, listener, 15:08:49, 3/25/2001, (#17) Blubbering Johnnie, sarah, 16:50:27, 3/25/2001, (#19) Listen up.., Greenleaf, 16:02:35, 3/25/2001, (#18) And Greenleaf.., sarah, 16:54:56, 3/25/2001, (#20) Well, Sarah....., sds, 17:14:02, 3/25/2001, (#22) ................................................................... "Newseum Transcript 2" Posted by Dunvegan on 23:16:44 3/24/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 23:16:44, 3/24/2001 OK...it's running a little longer than I originally thought it would...and I'm about to run screaming, after having John and Patsy Ramsey cackling and moaning in my ears for hours. They are as irritating to listen to a an aural case of the hives! Anyway...it's shaping up to be a three-parter. Sorry. I'll post Part Two now. Three tomorrow. (God, I hope it's only 3 parts....) [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Newseum Transcript (2 of 3)" Posted by Dunvegan on 23:07:21 3/24/2001 M: So, it's a real...it's a real conundrum - J: - Yes! M: - I mean...uh, no coverage then doesn't protect our rights against the government...uh, abuse...but, too much coverage, you're saying, this kind of saturation: any detail, any gossip, any rumor...also - P: - gets in the way - M: - creates a situation where our rights are, uh...we've lost rights. And, so, we need reporting - J: -Absolutely. That's...that's the conclusion I've come to...(Crosstalk between John and the moderator) M: -but, where do you draw the line? J: - and I've gone the full gamut of...in the beginning I was...you know, this system is terrible. We need the government to take it over, and by God, that's the answer. And...then, of course then you realize - whoa-whoa - that's a bad idea! Uh...we need...a democracy needs freedom of the press. It...and I think Plato said that...a long time ago. But, it's got to...uh, it's very biased with...with, as Patsy said, adjectives...um, um...there was a report recently in the Atlanta paper, where it was reported that we were selling our house to pay legal bills, which is true...uh, but the article said that "the Ramseys have to give up their lavish lifestyle." Well, that wasn't...necessary. You know, that...that hurt! I mean, the fact of the matter is that we were losing our house, because this has been horrendously expensive, and...you know...we'd worked all our lives, and - P: (crosstalk) - See, it's those - J: ...our savings... P: - little adjectives - J: - but, the adjective of "lavish lifestyle"... P: - Paints a portrait - J: - paints this horrible picture! We feel like we been created into modern-day, real-life J.R. Ewings. (Quiet laughter from audience) M: Um hmmm (affirmative.) J: And, we were created...uh, probably in the beginning by the tabloid media... P: Um hmmm (affirmative.) J: ...to be hated. Because that sells...sells their paper. People wanna...you know...find someone that's...life is...I don't know why people read tabloids. And...but...some do, and...and the big problem is that many, many, more see the headlines...and that's where the damage is done. But, um... P: I mean as journalism - J: That is just - P: Yeah! J: perpetuated, from our perspective...um... M: Well, why do people read tabloids? They're in business because - J: (exasperated) Yeah! P: It's profit! M: - they're some of the largest circulation - P: There's something about...I don't know whether it's Americans...the human psyche...something. We're just...we're NOSY! You know, you (laugh) wanna know...what our neighbor's doin'. You know. Where are they going? Where are they coming from? And...I don't know what it is. I mean, I think it's...sickening. But, they sell so many magazines...it's just unimaginable. J: Well, and you know, the issue is not, in my mind, not...if people want to buy that stuff and read it, you know, they deserve to pay the two bucks, or whatever they have to pay for to buy it. But, the problem is: it's right in the front of everybody's face...these lurid headlines...which often are toned down in the story, you know. "Father...uh...Assaults Daughter in Bed!" ...and then you, you...that's the headline. And, so, if you're passing through the grocery line...and you see that, you think, "Whoa!" and that gets burned in your brain. And then the next time you see it, it's burned again. The story may be totally different. But the headlines are what do the damage. And I'm convinced hundreds of millions of people see those headlines...because they're walking past the supermarket check-out stand. And that's where the damage is done. I don't...you know...if the tabloids...I mean, that people buy child pornography magazines, people buy all sorts of...strange things...it's a free country, I guess. But the fact...that the "pushers" put this stuff right in our face... P: - with children in the (garbled...may be "buggies")... J: ...is what's wrong with...our...our contention is, you know, let...tabloids, if they t-t-they've got an audience, that's fine...you know, that's not to be...uh, the issue. The issue is: the pushers of this pornography, journalistic pornography...in my opinion, uh...should be criticized, by their customers for putting it in front of their children - P: - "Pushers" being: the grocery stores, the drug stores, you know...where...that give them the floor space. J: And, they do that because they because it's very profitable...they make a lot of money. M: Well, it's right - P: (Shouting down the moderator) AND THEY MAKE LOT OF MONEY! M: - there...the tabloids are right there with the candy - P: - That's right! J: - You can't miss it. M: - and the other stuff that may or may not be good for you, when you're checking out. P: (loudly) And, you may not stoop to actually pick one up and looking at it, or buying it, for heaven's sake...but, nevertheless, you're gonna see the headline. Perfect example: a few weeks ago...you know...it...of course, we know, uh...that part of the crime scene that we have this Hi-Tec boot footprint that is unidentifiable. Well, a headline ran: "Ramseys Turn Over Hi-Tec Boots". You know. So, if you just saw that, what would that tell you? We had a Hi-Tec boot...you know. That is not what happened. Our investigators, you know, investigating...um, you know...into... J: - one of the leads -- P: - into one on the leads that we had, obtained a pair of Hi-Tec boots! M: Oh. So, you went and got some boots. P: (laughing) So...our investigator obtained these boots...turned them over to the police authorities. Well, the headline implies that it was...they were our boots! You know.... M: Could you tell us who's they were? I mean, or just - J: Well... M: - did you go to a store and buy them, or what? J: No... P: (unhappily) -No. J: These were...we have probably a half a dozen good leads. That we've been working on. We've given all the information to the police. Uh...one of them may be the killer...none of them may be the killer. And, so, uh...but this pair of boots belong to one of the leads that we have and the footprint is, from our perspective, an identical - M: Matches. J: - match. May or may not be anything. But, we gave them to the police, and said, "Here, this needs to be looked at. Please, look at them." And...we can only hope that they have. Um...but, um...you know, I've often thought that if we could, if we could marshal all the effort that the journalists have put in to this case, to finding the killer, we'd of had him a long time ago. M: Hmmmm. J: And there have been...three or four, maybe half a dozen journalists who have really dug into some things, as I said earlier...some very, very interesting...bits of information, that we wouldn't have found, and I know...the - M: I want to go back to the students, but - J: - the police wouldn't have found. M: - could you name those journalists...I mean, the journalists that were really...turning up things that were - J: Well...Dan Glick of Newsweek...uh... M: - helpful to the case. P: - he found a tremendous amount. J: - dug into a lot of stuff, just in his process of investigative reporting. Uh...Charlie Brennan of, formerly the Rocky Mountain News, um...broke this story about the...ummm...very similar circumstance that happened to this young girl in Boulder, nine months after JonBenet was assaulted. Um...he had a difficult time getting it even printed. He...he was a freelance journalist, at the time...and nobody in Boulder would, or in Colorado would print the story. And, it ended up being printed by the Dallas Morning News...and, of course, it made national headlines because it was, you know, very...a very similar attack, uh...had been kept quiet by the police...had not been even disclosed to the prosecutors, who were looking at us very hard...and it needed to be looked at very seriously, in my opinion. They broke that story, and that's great. M: Let's get back to our students. You're on "Inside Media". STUDENT QUESTIONER #4: My name is Esther (redacted) and I'm one of Mr. Morrison's students...I just had a question: You wrote in your book, "Death of Innocence," that you started taking pictures of the media that were covering you. Now, may I ask why you began doing that? And, what you intend to do with the photographs? J: Well, it was a defense...what we found was that...and, these are mostly tabloid photographers...they hated to have their picture taken. I don't know why. If they were wanted for arrest somewhere...hmmm... M: Oh...now YOU'RE doing it! P: Heh, ha ha ha! (loudly) J: Sorry! P: (gleefully) Editorializing! J: (John and Patsy crosstalk) I... P: The best defense - J: They... P: ...the best defense was to turn the tables on 'em! J: They'd flee, basically. P: Yeah! J: They just hated to have their picture taken. They hated to be followed. They would follow us in their car...you know, we'd be out driving, and we'd notice this car...they always used rental cars... P: Um hmmm... J: In Colorado, rental cars have headlights that - P: - the headlights - J: - are on all the time. So, it was very easy to pick them out, because it's the only car with headlights on, all year round. Well, if we could get behind them...and follow them...if you pursue them in the same way...they hated it. So, it became...it became kind of a game, in some respects. Although, it was...a very... P: Dangerous game. J: - uh...yeah, you know when Princess Diana was killed, you know, and that fleeing of the...uh, tabloid photographers: I knew exactly how they felt. P: Um hmm (affirmative.) J: And, it's silly...because it can't hurt you...well...they can hurt you immensely with a camera. Because of the things they say and the picture. Uh...I've often said I'd rather have a gun pointed at me than a camera. Because, at least I know the gun...I know the worst it can do. The worst damage it can do. But that...just the feeling of being pursued, it's a...it's like the red fox being pursued by the hounds. Uh...it's...I think it's just an instinctive...uh, feeling that you have: that you don't wanna be pursued. M: Can we talk about perceptions, a little bit? One question that you're obviously asked every time that you do an interview is: did you kill your daughter? When you first thought about answering that question, probably still today, do you think about what the best way to answer that question is, in terms of the tone you take, and the words you choose? P: You know, this...this never ceases to amaze me that people think that we are so calculating. Somebody said that...that if we really did this, that we are the best...we ougha get a...uh...an Oscar, or something, cause we're the best actor...actors...around. I mean, when somebody asks me that, I say, "NO!" I mean, I don't think about...anything except, "NO! I didn't do it!" So, I don't...I don't plan how I'm gonna say (laugh) it...or, it's just...um...I just say, "No." What else is there to say? You know.... J: Y-y-y-eah...I m-m-m-ean, it's a...it's a...uh, (pause) It's...you know, on one level it's a...it's a very...foolish question. Cause we know...who we are...that we loved our children...normal people. Ahh...but now if..if somebody asks me that, I say..."So why, why...before I answer that, but why do you ask the question? Why would you even...suspect that. Or, why would you wonder that? What in my background...would make you think that? What...what...of the evidence, you know about, would make you think that?" "Why would you even ask that question?" M: Thinking back, was there a moment where you realized that...you were suspected, although not named as suspects, that moment...and, you're saying to yourselves, you know, "Well, we just go and tell them 'No...that's ridiculous.'" J: Yeah... M: But, I guess...you know, you must have been thinking, "That's not good enough, that's not going to be good enough." Uh... P: See! That's where I think you're wrong: why shouldn't that be good enough? I mean, why do I have to defend myself...I have been, you know, a good mother. I have been...tried to be...a good...person. I mean, what in my background have I ever done - J: See, we actually had - P: - to make you THINK that? J: - the Chief of Police in Boulder say, "Well, you prove to me you're innocent...and I'll be the first to say it." P: (exasperated gasp) J: And, I felt like saying, "Do you know what you've just said?" P: Right. M: The opposite of what - P: (crosstalk) - Yeah! Backwards of - M: - is supposed to be the law. P: - Innocent until proven guilty. M: Umm hmm (affirmative.) J: And, yet...he had no concept of what he had just said. And yet, that's the perspective that they took on this case. "Prove to me you're innocent." M: It's a very unusual position you were in - J: Yeah. M: - and, and...and I think that some of us are just fascinated about (sputters)...in morbid way, I have to admit...but what would it be like to be...to have that happen to you? And...and just the incredible frustration that...of not being able to communicate what you wanted to communicate. J: Yeah. Well, it...the big issue is...the big perspective issue is, I think, is that we're not unique in this. This happens a lot...in our country. I think the...the whole, the whole approach, in large degree, of the justice system has taken on this, "You're guilty...you gotta prove you're innocent." And, that's why we've got innocent people in jail. That's why you read about it everyday in the paper. People being released based on DNA evidence that was tested... P: Um hmm (affirmative.) J: ...and like, "Whoops! They weren't guilty." P: Um hmm (affirmative.) J: But the police don't...if I can use our experience as a...as applying to the 18,000 police jurisdictions that are out there, which isn't fair, but...they make a decision, they decide guilt, and try to prove it. And, your job, it to prove you're not guilty. And...that's backwards. P: You can't...how do you prove you're not guilty? M: Reginald, got a question for them? STUDENT QUESTIONER #5: My name is Reginald (redacted), and I'm a Junior at the University of Maryland, and my question is: if you were a journalist covering this case, how would you have gone about things differently? M: And, if you could, along those lines...touch on some of the characterizations that you mentioned. You've mentioned terms that journalists use: "lavish lifestyle". JonBenet is constantly referred to in stories as a "beauty queen." M: That was the basis for the sensationalism of the story. P: Well, I know you've heard this a million times..."the pen is mightier than the sword." That...I mean, John just said he'd rather have a gun pointed at him than a camera. I mean, when you write a story...every word counts. Particularly, those adjectives. "The Ramseys give up 'lavish lifestyle'." You know. Katie Couric said...we were on the Today Show...and she said, you know...just in her...you know, quick, "bub-bub-bub-bub-bub-bub-ba" you know, "Ramseys just take a 'self-sponsored' polygraph test." And, I said, "WHOA, WHOA, WHAA...whoa, whoa, whoa! Listen to what you just said! 'Self-sponsored polygraph test.'" I mean...those little adjectives there...absolutely send a picture, you know, to the listening audience...to your reading audience, you...combined with everybody else reporting about this are building a characterization, you know, of the person that you're reporting about. So: Watch those descriptive things. You're there to report the news. Unless you're on the editorial page, you do not have...total carte blanche to give Reggie's, you know, personal opinion...you know...of what happened here, or who these people are. Or, how they came across to you. You know, unless somebody comes up to you and says, "Gee, when they were out in the hall...what did they really act like?" Then you can say what Reggie feels like...but Reggie reporting as a representative of USA Today, or the University of Maryland, or whatever...shouldn't insert...you know...your own little adjectives, because that's what...that's what nailed us! I mean, people say, you know, (takes on a huffy, deep voice) "Ramseys live in a mansion! A b-i-i-i-i-g mansion!" You know, the price of the house kept going up...you know. We tried to sell it, and the realtor said it kept going down...I think it was Diane Sawyer who came into the house, and she said, "This is the mansion?" You know, it just got...it...it...was make-believe! And, it was all because of the words chosen by each individual journalist. Time after time after time. M: Meghan? STUDENT QUESTIONER #6: Hi. I'm Meghan (redacted). My question for you: I know you guys touched on the law in England, as far as privacy laws...but, do you feel that privacy laws and other limitations should be placed upon journalists or media coverage, in cases such as the killing of your daughter? P: Funny you should ask...our eighth grade son, Burke, is...in his civics class studying privacy in the media. (sigh) And that's, you know, what he's going to be studying all year...where do we find the balance between the public's right to know...and an individual's right to privacy? Both of those are equally important. So it's...when one over-steps the other, that it starts getting ugly. Um...do you have any...? J: Well, I think...I mean, the things that were...offensive to me, just as a person...were how...why should a photographer be able to take my picture, without my permission...and sell it? That didn't seem right. Now, um...I know in France, for example, they have laws where you can't do that...without the person's permission. The...um...but, the big issue, I think, really...and, and maybe you have to have laws...cause there's always people who'll stoop to the lowest common denominator. We've got to protect our justice system from...ah...this intrusion...and, and in fact it's being used for entertainment. I marvel at shows like CourtTV, and uh...you know, the...televised OJ trial. This is for entertainment. And, and that's not right. P: And, one of the big problems, too...is that, you know, I think you said that if one of the students gets one thing wrong, you know: a detail incorrect on your paper...you get an "F". The press in this country: media, broadcast, print, whatever...has no accountability. If they make a mistake, there is no one to smack their hand. There's no one...the liable laws are the only thing that we have to retaliate with as a private citizen...but, even that is like, like David and Goliath. You know...trying to...to fight this. So, um...unless someone...as a matter of fact I think Brill's Content...do you'all...you should get Brill's Content magazine...they're kinda a "media watchdog"...on their own industry. They did a survey of some of the top media executives, in the country. And posed two different, self-regulated kind of questions to them. You know, Would you, in lieu of a law being passed...would you voluntarily, as a news organization agree to...I'm paraphrasing...but "back off", you know...children, particularly...and respect the privacy of people...and, I think the whole thing came about right after JFK, Jr.'s plane went down...and they were talking about how horrible it was...people sticking cameras through to Caroline Kennedy's home, and that kind of thing. And, I mean, almost without fail...every one of 'em said, "Oh, no!"...you know..."We judge everything case-by-case and have all these wonderful...um, mantras about how they are...really want to do things ethically. But, you know, when they choose between ethics and getting' the scoop first...you know, and be on the air in five minutes...guess what...they're gonna go with that one without checking things. M: Did it, did it bother you at all when Brill's used a picture of your daughter on it's cover? They got quite a bit of criticism from other members of the media, who thought that they were also guilty of exploiting her death. J: Yeah. P: Well... J: Well...we were so numbed by that time...you know, it's.... M: Of all the exploitations, this wasn't so bad because it was media criticism? J: (laughter) Well! Ha...that helps! P: Well! (laughs) It's kinda like...it's kinda like why we're here today! You know...preaching to the choir, kinda! I mean...there is some choir-members here, if I'm not mistaken...you know.... So. I mean...they were using her picture...as an example...uh...of people using her picture. (Laughs) You know what I mean...So! M: Some people have said that the problem with the law is that it could also stop those, sometimes rare occasions, when it's important for journalists to be able to take photographs of things going on in public- J: Yeah, I know. And, that's a different...how do you - M: - to show, to show...how about this: there has been some...there's been talk about re-creating the National News Council. It would be a place that people, in your situation, could go to...you know...cast the light back on those...it's kind of like an institutional way of turning the video camera on to the...what would your opinion be about that kind of an institution? J: I think that...I mean, from what you've described, I think that would be very necessary to...It's probably the only, from my awareness, the only way a group of professionals who don't have an oversight group, like the American Medical Association...or the Bar Association...and, you know, anybody can call themselves a "journalist." And there's...it ranges from the lowest of the low, like the tabloid...to the best of the best. And, unfortunately...you know, the...lowest of the low bring down the whole standard of the industry. There used to be accountability. As I looked at it from, OK...how do you fix this? Maybe, it can't be fixed...maybe you just hope there's enough good journalists out there that...and people begin to understand that this is where I get accurate, correct information. You know, in the old days, you know that if Walter Cronkite said it...it was true. You just didn't question that. And now, I've learned...I'm not sure where you go for that absolutely, most-of-the-time, accurate information. But, if...maybe the way it's fixed is if enough people like you guys, that understand what your role is...and it's a critical role in a democracy and a free society...that, it would...counterbalances the bad, uh...and um...cause I've thought about this a lot. You know, how do you...how do you fix all these wrongs we've seen? And...um, it's not easy. P: And the trouble is, you know...you students sitting there are saying, "I will never stoop to this. I was raised better. My momma wouldn't like this!" (laughs) You know...and you might have really great...you know...determination to go out there and really fix it. But, all of a sudden...when Globe Magazine, or somebody is waiving this big check, and a free expense account...then, uh...a car, and...you know...blah-blah-blah...it's like: (whispers) "Oooooh! Gosh! Welllll...let's just do this for a little while." You know...and get back into the real stuff later...or something. You know...the "almighty dollar" does strange things to people.... So, you know, don't give up your... J: Principles. P: ...principles. Just...don't. It's just...that's where things start a downward spiral. M: Tell us who you are. STUDENT QUESTIONER #7: I'm Maura (redacted), also from the University of Maryland. You were talking about your son. I was wondering what steps you take to shield your son from the media, and how has he been effected? P: Well, first step is I'd rather not answer that question. Cause I just don't like to talk about him a whole lot or tell anything about him. For that very reason... J: We try to be very careful that his picture is not taken. The issue really is...you know, we've seen...we've seen the good in our society, and we've seen the bad...and we know there's both. The good...far outweighs the bad...and that's the good news. But, there are bad people out there. And...you know, that's why...and people that aren't...their head's not screwed on right. And that's why you have John Lennon being shot, you know, out in New York...for no good reason. And, so, we don't want Burke to be...identifiable. P: I really wanted him to come today. In fact, I'd spoken to his Principal and all that...to get him out of school, because he's studying this privacy and the media all year. And then, at the last minute, I learned that it was open to the public...and, I just...I just...I mean, initially, I thought that we were going to be in your classroom at the university...so, I said to his Principal: "Oh, great...so, we can visit a college...and, you know...perfect topic to discuss...and then, you know...when that "open to the public" thing came out...I just...chickened out. M: There is a line you draw with him. I mean, we have to talk about the lawsuit. That was the reason you sued - J: Right. P: Right. M: - the tabloid. I mean...tell us about that. J: Well, part of our responsibility...we feel...is that this is going to effect our children, it's going to effect their children...and who knows how far downstream that'll go? You know, Patsy and I...it's not a issue to us as to how people feel...whether 20% of the people feel we're guilty, or 80%. We know the truth...we, you know...are comfortable with...ourselves. But, we've got a responsibility to try to reclaim our good family name...for the sake of our children. And, so that's...that's really what's driving those kinds of efforts...I think, more than anything else...that's, that's why we've chosen to speak out. You know, a good criminal attorney will tell you...tell their client, "Look: if you're under suspicion by the police, my preference is to put you in a closet, close the door, tell the police to 'go prove it'...but, we're not gonna help you." Any...that's Criminal Defense 101. And...uh, that's why, for three years, we never spoke out. Because our attorneys said, "You know, you're under investigation...under suspicion by the police..." Uh, we are fully prepared to meet them in a full court of law, and I promise you...it's the only thing I'll promise you...we will...be victorious. We'll win...there's no question about it. But, we're not going to practice our trade in front of a camera. And so, for three years, we...bit our tongue. You know, we wanted to say, "That's not true." You know...that's...and protect our name and our reputation...but, uh...we were strongly advised against us...against it. M: It was Burke that was accused of, by the Star...was that the... J: Oh...I think all of the tabloids... M: ...and the lawsuit? Do you feel that it was...that there was some justice, in how that was resolved? J: Uh...it was settled. Uh...prior to a trial. And, uh...it was satisfactory to us. I mean the only accountability, ultimately, that there is available, to a citizen against the media, regardless of who it is...is in court, and financial accountability. You know, we can't have them in prison because of the laws: they operate under the First Amendment. In fact, I've often thought of the tabloids as a...basically a form of organized crime operating under the protection of the First Amendment. But, they can be held accountable financially...still, very difficult to do, because most of the laws in this country...as they pertain to, you know...speech...are put together with the USA Today's and the Washington Post's, and the New York Times' in mind. And, they want to be very careful that they're protected so they can exercise their role in society. The lowest of the low operate under the same rules. And, they're two different organizations. End of Part Two of Three [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Red flag..." Posted by dustii on 03:05:17 3/25/2001 Oh my Patsy, what a headline to pick..... "Father...uh...Assaults Daughter in Bed!" One more bit that made me look twice... again by Patsy "...shouldn't insert...you know...your own little adjectives, because that's what...that's what nailed us!" Interesting..huh? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL dustii ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "very interesting " Posted by luvsflowers on 06:26:19 3/25/2001 this items stood out at me QUOTE The story may be totally different. But the headlines are what do the damage. And I'm convinced hundreds of millions of people see those headlines...because they're walking past the supermarket check-out stand. And that's where the damage is done. I don't...you know...if the tabloids...I mean, that people buy child pornography magazines, people buy all sorts of...strange things...it's a free country, I guess. John--child pornography--who said anything about that?? could you subconcious be speaking here?? where in the world did you pop that out from?? P: You know, this...this never ceases to amaze me that people think that we are so calculating. Somebody said that...that if we really did this, that we are the best...we ougha get a...uh...an Oscar, or something, cause hey Patsy--is the word you are looking for LIARS???? isnt that what John Douglas said to you and John?? J: Y-y-y-eah...I m-m-m-ean, it's a...it's a...uh, (pause) It's...you know, on one level it's a...it's a very...foolish question. Cause we know...who we are...that we loved our children...normal people. Ahh...but now if..if somebody asks me that, I say..."So why, why...before I answer that, but why do you ask the question? Why would you even...suspect that. Or, why would you wonder that? What in my background...would make you think that? What...what...of the evidence, you know about, would make you think that HEY John---a simple NO!!! thats what the FBI says---people who add beyond yes or no are usually lying. So why cant you just say NO??? J: But the police don't...if I can use our experience as a...as applying to the 18,000 police jurisdictions that are out there, which isn't fair, but...they make a decision, they decide guilt, and try to prove it. OH 18,000 is it? thats an interesting number--where did you get that from--could it be the RANSOM NOTE??? but Reggie reporting as a representative of USA Today, or the University of Maryland, or whatever...shouldn't insert...you know...your own little adjectives, because that's what...that's what nailed us! YES it is Patsy---it was the adjectives. Very good thank-- you for that infomation. J: Well, I think...I mean, the things that were...offensive to me, just as a person...were how...why should a photographer be able to take my picture, without my permission...and sell it? That didn't seem right. Now, um...I know in France, for example, they have laws where you can't do that...without the person's permission. So John shall we look for you to turn up in France at some future point in time--like say if an arrest is imminent?? J: I think that...I mean, from what you've described, I think that would be very necessary to...It's probably the only, from my awareness, the only way a group of professionals who don't have an oversight group, WEll John---that sounds kinda like the ransom note again---you remember--a group of individuals dont you? But, if...maybe the way it's fixed is if enough people like you guys, that understand what your role is...and it's a critical role in a democracy and a free society...that, it would...counterbalances the bad, uh...and um... ooops--there it is again--that pesky ransom note flooding your thoughts--counterbalances patsy You know...and you might have really great...you know...determination to go out there and really fix it. But, all of a sudden...when Globe Magazine, or somebody is waiving this big check, and a free expense account...then, uh...a car, and...you know...blah-blah-blah...it's like: (whispers) "Oooooh! Gosh! Welllll...let's just do this for a little while." You know...and get back into the real stuff later...or something. Hey Patsy--I guess this is why you and John just recently broke down and gave in and went to the tabs yourself huh? john "Look: if you're under suspicion by the police, my preference is to put you in a closet, close the door, tell the police to 'go prove it'...but, we're not gonna help you." Any...that's Criminal Defense 101. And...uh, that's why, for three years, we never spoke out. Because our attorneys said, "You know, you're under investigation...under suspicion by the police..." WEll John I remember you speaking out--what about the CNN--the Subtract news brief?? forget about those huh? Uh, we are fully prepared to meet them in a full court of law, and I promise you...it's the only thing I'll promise you...we will...be victorious. Ahhh victory--that ransom note again I will have to study this more later. Im out of coffee and I cant stand anymore right now. thanks again Dunvegan. Luvs [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Thanks Dun..." Posted by Country Girl on 08:08:45 3/25/2001 Somebody should tell John the FACTS of this case! There was no "footprint" that can be a "match" to anyone! The LOGO of Hi-Tec was found and it can't even be sized because it's the same on every sole. "The imprint was of the 'poon'--the area on the sole at the heel where the brand name is stamped. The size of shoe couldn't be determined from the imprint, since the poon is the same size in all shoes, the better to advertise brands." (PMPT paperback, page 746) John talks about headlines (BTW-it was John who talks about the father in bed with the daughter) and yet he continues to spew misinformation about this case and claims he doesn't know this, doesn't read that, etc. Patsy and John demonize the tabloids and turn around and give a two hour interview to the Enquirer. How hypocrital is that? They claim they want to protect Burke and their interview led to headlines screaming his name. Did they not think to have control over what headline would be used? They don't care. They have used the media from day 1 with their CNN interview, the infomercial, their press conference about their polygraphs, etc and now the Enquirer. They admit their criminal defense attorneys wanted them to just shut up but they can't. Can't wait for part 3. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Dunvegan and Luvs" Posted by momo on 08:21:37 3/25/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:21:37, 3/25/2001 You know, one thing that keeps standing out to me is that John just hates the country. John, nobody's keeping you here. Also Patsy has made a few remarks about Oscars and acting. Patsy, dear, you are NO actress, sugar! Get over yourself already! These two idiots crack me up everytime they open their mouths. I noticed that Patsy mentioned that Burke is studying media and journalism. Hmmmm, wonder if he's also been getting interested in the case? That would be so neat if Burke could bust this thing wide open. Dunvegan, could you tell me how to get to the Ramsey interview once I get there? :-) Thanks [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "They don't discuss" Posted by v_p on 08:51:16 3/25/2001 JonBenet's murder with Burke, yet they were going to take him out of school for the day to attend this seminar? Did they think no one would ask questions about the murder? Johnisms I noticed - group of professionals whether 20% of the people feel we're guilty, or 80% [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Momo...that's the reason I'm transcribing..." Posted by Dunvegan on 10:17:40 3/25/2001 ...this disgusting interview... You can't get there from here...or anywhere! Seems, the best I can figure, is that the Newseum leaves up webcasts for about 3 weeks, and then takes them down. Here's what I could find at the web site for "Freedom Fourm" at: http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=13041 Webcasts of programs will be available at all times for about 24 hours, or until the next scheduled program. Friday Webcasts will be available continuously at all times, all weekend, until 11 a.m. Monday morning. Freedom Forum does have an article, that they distilled from the interview: "Ramseys Urge Journalism Students to Use Press Powers Responsibly." You can find it at: http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=3295 And, here's a copy of my original correspondence with the Freedom Forum, re. obtaining a free cassette of the Ramsey webcast (BTW - They said "2 weeks"...it took 6 months to arrive): Subject: RE: INQUIRY: How could I get a copy of an audio cassette copy of a program? Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:17:51 -0400 From: Max Cacas Thanks for writing. Please provide us with your postal mailing address, and we will try to get a tape copy of this program to you within the next two weeks. Thanks for your interest in free! Radio programs. - Max Cacas - Online Producer -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 5:14 PM To: webcast@freedomforum.org Subject: INQUIRY: How could I get a copy of an audio cassette copy of a program? Please forward me information on how I can obtain a cassette copy of the following program: Monday, Oct. 16 2-4 p.m.; 4-6 p.m. Eastern - 'Inside Media: Coverage and Controversies with the Ramseys.' University of Maryland journalism students, other Newseum visitors examine role and behavior of the news media in covering controversial stories. Guests: John and Patsy Ramsey, parents of JonBenet Ramsey. Moderators: Blake Morrison, USA TODAY; Eric Newton, Newseum news historian. Co-sponsored by University of Maryland School of Journalism. Recorded Oct. 12 at the Newseum. Heck, Momo...if everybody could easily get to the webcast, I'd just post the URL and be done with it! Do you think I'd endure hours of John and Patsy, guffawing, stuttering, and screeching (Patsy often "screeches") in my ears, plus typing my little fingers off? But, man...the Freedom Forum moderators pandered to them...the students picked up on the tenor...and asked extremely polite questions...and John and Patsy were so starved for both exposure and sanction, that I think they said some wildly damaging things. Plus, they got so-o-o-o-o comfortable, and this interview went on so-o-o-o long, that they slowly fell (what seemed to be pretty completely) into their natural and highly individual speech conventions. I'm finding it a WEALTH of information.... But St. Dunvegan here (gotta be a martyr if I'm willing to transcribe with those two devils dancing in my ears, in stereo, for days...) can find no better way to get this fascinating and curiously incriminating data out to Justice Watch, in case anyone here wants to do some analysis. I'll finish up and post the rest in a trice.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Dunvegan" Posted by ayelean on 10:40:27 3/25/2001 Thanks so much for transcribing this. I cannot imagine myself doing what you are doing. I am printing it out and intend to highlight Patsy's in one color and John's in another color to help me separate the joined at the hip, BOPsy twins. I find they mimic each other so much it is hard to differentiate them. Now we have two people in this whole world that use 'and hence' and they happen to be married to each other. I highly doubt that John wrote the Chistmas note, yet John uses the term in his spoken word. I'm beginning to think these two started the plot of a crime novel the day they got married. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "I'll tell you what I'm waiting for:" Posted by gaiabetsy on 10:31:06 3/25/2001 I can't wait for the day when these two rediculous people get to eat all their silly words! The day I see them in handcuffs and cowering (instead of preening) in front of the cameras will be the day I feel like some justice has been done. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "bless your little fingers, Dun" Posted by Edie Pratt on 12:51:13 3/25/2001 and your ears! What a tortuous process you've been thru...ayeeeeeeee! They make me soooo sick, I'm only glad I skipped breakfast. I don't know why they are wasting so much time blaming the tabs and other media, when it's THEIR tv performances that have convinced the public of their guilt. Did the tabs instruct Patsy to cover her head and clasp her hands before her, days after the murder? Did the media tell them to say they weren't mad at the killer? Did the tabs wave a big check under their noses to hold up a teeny tiny photo and declare JonBenet "that child"? I could go for days, but why bother? And who exactly do they think they are? They compare their situation to Diana or John Lennon, like they are that important. They aren't any more notable than Mark David Chapman, and where the hell is he when you need him, anyway? I wish John Ramsey would stand outside the Dakota one day... Ugh, poor Dun, you need a break, girl. That was grueling:-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Truly Amazing Dunvy ....." Posted by Mandarin on 13:54:23 3/25/2001 You are absolutely the best! How do you find these things out? And here I thought I was just going to have a quick glance at JW and TA DA!!! All these fantastic threads with the Rams taking the prime spotlight as "Talking Heads". Something's definitely up with the Rams. Wonder if Nedra's passing has changed the dynamics of their superficial relationship. Could enormous guilt be plaguing them now? Are they at total odds with one another. Or is Burke, having become a full-fledged teenager, starting to put them through the "proverbial" teenage hell? I CANNOT believe the two of them actually believe the world to swallow their b.s. that Burke has lived in the dark all these years. Their very own words contradict it. Where was Burke when they were writing DOI. Does he not have friends with TV? Where was he when they gave Babwa Wawa the house tour? Where was he when they did the A&E infomercial? Where was he when they did the book tour (Katie Couric, etc.) And where the hell was he when Patsy and Susan Stine were on the computer all day when the Rams & Paughs were living with them. And where was Burke every time the Rams appeared on CNN and LKL? In other words, do they really expect us to believe that Burke is deaf, blind and stupid too? Like everyone else Dunvy .... I'm hanging out at my keyboard waiting for Part III. You're the top dog here on JW and we all know how the Rams hate dogs chasing their pack of lies. Don't keep us waiting too long Dunvy! Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "My Header: What Edie Said First" Posted by janphi on 13:39:58 3/25/2001 Meaning, "Bless your fingers, Dunvegan!" Thank you, thank you! John: But, it's got to...uh, it's very biased with...with, as Patsy said, adjectives [Yeah, yeah, adjectives, that's what you call them...I'm just on pronouns and haven't mastered them yet.] John: there was a report recently in the Atlanta paper, where it was reported that we were selling our house to pay legal bills, which is true... [At least, that's what we want you to think!] John: uh, but the article said that "the Ramseys have to give up their lavish lifestyle." Well, that wasn't...necessary. You know, that...that hurt! I mean, the fact of the matter is that we were losing our house, because this has been horrendously expensive, and...you know...we'd worked all our lives, and - [Yeah, truth hurts, huh? That whole sentence was just a gosh darn adjective! Expensive, huh? "Expensive lawyers," as in expensive Porsche's and Jaguars? As in $10 grand-a-pop pageant participation? As in 3-story homes, including vacation ones? As in silk scarves? As in airplanes and jets? As in loss of a 6-year LIFE, John? Like YOU two (the "we" of "we," right?) have worked all your lives? No one else has? Patsy earned a lot, too, huh?] John: ...our savings... [Ah, that's what's eating you, huh?] John: - but, the adjective of "lavish lifestyle"... [And that adjective within that phrase would be...what, John? Do you know?] John: We feel like we been created into modern-day, real-life J.R. Ewings. (Quiet laughter from audience) [Patsy's an oilMAN, too, huh? Don't flatter yourselves. JR never killed anybody--somebody shot HIM. Oh yeah, victims...victims of a feather...no, victims with the same initials, like to publicly harrass officials--if that doesn't work, just act like a jerk--but be prepared to explain the interstitials!] Patsy: We're just...we're NOSY! [We wanna see the GJ transcripts!] Patsy: I mean, I think it's...sickening. ["Oh, it's nauseating beyond belief."] John: if people want to buy that stuff and read it, you know, they deserve to pay the two bucks, or whatever they have to pay for to buy it. [Slick, JR, slick. Lawzy, how much dem tings cost, anyway?] John: "Father...uh...Assaults Daughter in Bed!" ... The story may be totally different. [Then again, it might not be.] John: And I'm convinced hundreds of millions of people see those headlines...because they're walking past the supermarket check-out stand. And that's where the damage is done. [Ah, good, the brainwashing has worked on John, he's convinced. Not the ramblings of a guilty conscience--nopey nope, it's those HEADLINES!] John: I mean, that people buy child pornography magazines [Oh, they do, do they? Against the law, aren't they? Have go to where, Amsterdam, to get them?] John: But the fact...that the "pushers" put this stuff right in our face... [There you go again, John, giving you and Patsy only ONE face between you. How odd that you've had child porn pushed in your face, I never have.] Patsy: - with children in the (garbled...may be "buggies")... [Well, at least JonBenet couldn't read them] Patsy: - "Pushers" being: the grocery stores, the drug stores, you know...where...that give them the floor space. [Like Access did with workstations in showrooms? DesPICKable!] Patsy: (Shouting down the moderator) AND THEY MAKE LOT OF MONEY! [And no one ELSE in the whole wide world is allowed to make money EXCEPT US! Get it? JUST US!] Mod: the tabloids are right there with the candy - John: You can't miss it. ["It," John, can't miss "it"? Which one? Which one single copy of one single issue is there with the candy, huh?] Patsy; Perfect example: a few weeks ago...you know...it...of course, we know, uh...that part of the crime scene that we have this Hi-Tec boot footprint that is unidentifiable. Well, a headline ran: "Ramseys Turn Over Hi-Tec Boots". You know. So, if you just saw that, what would that tell you? We had a Hi-Tec boot...you know. [Umm, yes. But, ummm, how did you see this if you ordered the local stores not to stock them so you wouldn't see them? Hanging out in the stockroom again, were you?] Patsy: That is not what happened. Our investigators, you know, investigating...um, you know...into...- into one on the leads that we had, obtained a pair of Hi-Tec boots! So...our investigator obtained these boots...turned them over to the police authorities. Well, the headline implies that it was...they were our boots! ["Neener, neener, cops got the wrong ones!" Where is this "implication," anyway? I don't see it] John: Well...Dan Glick of Newsweek...uh... [Uh, got snowed by LouSmit...] John: Uh...Charlie Brennan of, formerly the Rocky Mountain News, um...broke this story about the...ummm...very similar circumstance that happened to this young girl in Boulder, nine months after JonBenet was assaulted. [But, of course, it being a newspaper and all, you didn't read it, right?] John: And, it ended up being printed by the Dallas Morning News...and, of course, it made national headlines because it was, you know, very...a very similar attack, uh...had been kept quiet by the police...had not been even disclosed to the prosecutors, who were looking at us very hard...and it needed to be looked at very seriously, in my opinion. They broke that story, and that's great. [It did? National headlines? Seems like some us would've seen that then, huh?] John: these are mostly tabloid photographers...they hated to have their picture taken. I don't know why. If they were wanted for arrest somewhere...hmmm... [Oooohh, chills. First, let's imply that these photogs are all criminals on the loose, then imply that if they're not, the Rams WILL have them arrested for crimes they are not committing, then let's just leave the innuendo out there, just like we say we hate for the media to do] John: They just hated to have their picture taken. They hated to be followed. They would follow us in their car...you know, we'd be out driving, and we'd notice this car...they always used rental cars... [But, uh, John, they haven't found any dead bodies of family members in their basements, have they? YOU have!] John: Well, if we could get behind them...and follow them...if you pursue them in the same way...they hated it. So, it became...it became kind of a game, in some respects. Although, it was...a very... Patsy: Dangerous game. [And you know how we love and thrive on DANGER! Our favorite game! Cops & robbers, catch us if you can!] John: - uh...yeah, you know when Princess Diana was killed, you know, and that fleeing of the...uh, tabloid photographers: I knew exactly how they felt. [Ooops, we almost forgot to mention her this time!] John: I've often said I'd rather have a gun pointed at me than a camera. [And just think how close you have come to getting your druthers!] Patsy: Because, at least I know the gun...I know the worst it can do. [Hey, it's just death, no biggie! I've stared death in the face, did you know that? And I won! Bwahhaahah, VICTORY!] Patsy: You know, this...this never ceases to amaze me that people think that we are so calculating. [See how innocently I can play that line so you think it just rolled off my tongue straight from my brain? See? Calculating, who moi?] Patsy: Somebody said that...that if we really did this, that we are the best...we ougha get a...uh...an Oscar, or something, cause we're the best actor...actors...around. [Wanna see the acceptance speech WE wrote?] Patsy: I mean, when somebody asks me that, I say, "NO!" I mean, I don't think about...anything except, "NO! I didn't do it!" [Of course, I'm not saying it now, either. I'm just telling you what I usually say when someone asks me, which is to tell them what I usually say when someone asks me. It's not to directly say "No" to you, who is asking me. It's to make it SOUND like I did, without actually answering you. Nyah, nyah, fooled you!] John: "Why would you even ask that question?" [Because she's dead and you were there. But you still didn't answer it.] John: What in my background... Patsy: I mean, what in my background have I ever done - [Oh, maybe everything to the extreme.] Patsy: I mean, when you write a story...every word counts. Particularly, those adjectives. "The Ramseys give up 'lavish lifestyle'." You know. [So this is really what's eating you? The word "lavish"? Is it the word or the actual having to give up? Well, some day soon, anyway.] Patsy: Listen to what you just said! 'Self-sponsored polygraph test.'" I mean...those little adjectives there...absolutely send a picture, you know, to the listening audience [For crying out loud, Katie, you can't just say the TRUTH like that! You're supposed to lie about good folks like us and help us look better than good! Didn't you get the memo?] Patsy: you...combined with everybody else reporting about this are building a characterization, you know, of the person that you're reporting about. So: Watch those descriptive things. You're there to report the news. [Where did Patsy get the idea that the Today Show is a NEWS program? They only do the NEWS for about 5 minutes every half-hour. Where did she get the idea that Thomas Nelson could BOOK her ONTO the NEWS??????? That's NUTZ!!] Patsy: Unless you're on the editorial page, you do not have...total carte blanche to give Reggie's, you know, personal opinion...you know...of what happened here, or who these people are. Or, how they came across to you. [Good grief! It's an entertainment show, they can do any damn thing they want to!] Patsy: reporting as a representative of USA Today, or the University of Maryland, or whatever...shouldn't insert...you know...your own little adjectives, because that's what...that's what nailed us! [Yeah, it's that stupid TRUTH stuff--you can't DO that! Stop it! Report only what rich people, like us, tell you to report, nothing else!] Patsy: "Ramseys live in a mansion! A b-i-i-i-i-g mansion!" [Let me reiterate that, in case you hadn't heard. We're rich. We're fat cats. We have big houses. Therefore, we are innocent. Only poor people kill their kids.] Patsy: I think it was Diane Sawyer who came into the house, [We are good friends, you know. She's rich. She's high profile. She came to my house. Of course, I wasn't there. And she came to look at the murder scene. But she is well known and it was my house.] Patsy: Funny you should ask...our eighth grade son, Burke, is...in his civics class studying privacy in the media. (sigh) And that's, you know, what he's going to be studying all year...where do we find the balance between the public's right to know...and an individual's right to privacy? [A whole year on ONE topic? In Burke's class? Let's see, how big a donation do you have to give Lovett to arrange that? And ya think they won't talk ABOUT YOU? Gimme a break.] John: why should a photographer be able to take my picture, without my permission...and sell it? [Maybe because you made yourself a public figure when you killed your one-of-a-kind child with the one-of-a-kind name in a one-of-a-kind crime and did an unprecedented sit-down, in-studio interview the day after her funeral before even talking to the police? Maybe that's why.] John: Now, um...I know in France, for example, they have laws where you can't do that...without the person's permission. [OK, then, John, move to France where they don't have presumption of innocence in the law, either! Go on, go ahead!] Patsy: The press in this country: media, broadcast, print, whatever...has no accountability. If they make a mistake, there is no one to smack their hand. [Right, no one. No ARBitron ratings, no Pulse reports, no instant polls, no Neilsen families. Right. Unlimited advertisers, unlimited corporate dollars. Right.] Patsy: do you'all...you should get Brill's Content magazine...they're kinda a "media watchdog"...on their own industry. [Uh, Patsy, you're speaking to a JOURNALISM class! What a stupid thing to say!] Patsy: Would you, in lieu of a law being passed...would you voluntarily, as a news organization agree to...I'm paraphrasing...but "back off", you know...children, particularly...and respect the privacy of people...and, I think the whole thing came about right after JFK, Jr.'s plane went down...and they were talking about how horrible it was...people sticking cameras through to Caroline Kennedy's home, and that kind of thing. [There, got a Kennedy mention in before time was up. Forgot Jackie, tho. Oh well, got her kid in, that's enough to relate it to moi, Patseline. 'Course JFKJr. wasn't murdered at home, but close enough!] [Discussing JBR on cover of Brill's] J: (laughter) Well! Ha...that helps! P: Well! (laughs) [Yes, ha ha ha, got JonBenet on the cover. She's dead, but that's OK. Ha ha haha, got the cover!] Patsy: So. I mean...they were using her picture...as an example...uh...of people using her picture. (Laughs) You know what I mean...So! [Ha ha ha, just can't contain my pitty-pat!] John: you know, anybody can call themselves a "journalist." [Or themselves "journalists," plural.] John: And, unfortunately...you know, the...lowest of the low bring down the whole standard of the industry. [Just because they don't like US!] John: And now, I've learned...I'm not sure where you go for that absolutely, most-of-the-time, accurate information. [Ah, but we know that THIS WEEK it's the National Enquirer, for sure!] John: I've thought about this a lot. You know, how do you...how do you fix all these wrongs we've seen? And...um, it's not easy. [Since I have nothing else to do BUT think about this. Since I'm unemployable, you know. Because our child died. In our house. With no one home but us. Dumb reason, really.] John: You know...the "almighty dollar" does strange things to people.... [Amen, brother! Preach it, John, you lowlife money-ho.] Patsy: that's where things start a downward spiral [And I know a thing or three about those!] Patsy: [about Burke] Well, first step is I'd rather not answer that question. Cause I just don't like to talk about him a whole lot or tell anything about him. For that very reason [Besides, I don't KNOW anything about him and we're not speaking to him right now, anyway.] John: We try to be very careful that his picture is not taken [It all started on Christmas morning, 1996, when the batteries were dead. Before that, we had LOTS of pictures. But you have to understand (because I said you have to), he's not as pretty as JonBenet.] John: that's why you have John Lennon being shot, you know, out in New York...for no good reason. [Well, one more celebrity mention can't hurt. Martyred, no less. Oooh, Patsy's gonna give me brownie points for that one!] John: And, so, we don't want Burke to be...identifiable. [Except we can't let him go in the Witness Protection program because we need his lawsuit income right now. Maybe later. Nobody knows it's him, anyway. Changed his name to Burke Doe, former bro of JonBenet Doe. Fooled everybody. Inturder didn't even know he lived at our house that's on TV with the address on the mailbox that we stand in front of for press conferences. Nope, nobody knows!] Patsy: I really wanted him to come today. [Then the long-winded, entirely too detailed excuse for why he didn't. IOW, she never thought about it for even a second. It just sounded good.] John: Well, part of our responsibility...we feel...is that this is going to effect our children, it's going to effect their children...and who knows how far downstream that'll go? [Second mention of "downstream"--maybe thinking "up the river"?] John: You know, Patsy and I...it's not a issue to us as to how people feel...whether 20% of the people feel we're guilty, or 80%. [Also, we have a choice for you today of London, Grand Canyon, Golden Gate, Tri-boro--which bridge would you like to see?] John: But, we've got a responsibility to try to reclaim our good family name...for the sake of our children. And, so that's...that's really what's driving those kinds of efforts [Those efforts, not these. Not coming to stupid j-school lectures. Nope, all that OTHER stuff we do. Lying, obfuscating, obstruction. Those things.] John: Any...that's Criminal Defense 101. And...uh, that's why, for three years, we never spoke out. Because our attorneys said, "You know, you're under investigation...under suspicion by the police..." [That's right, for 3 years we never spoke to CNN, BBC, selected press people at our news conference, ABC, NBC, Fox, Newsweek, Thomas Nelson Publishers--nope, we never said a word to them in 3.25 years. Of course, we fired the lawyers at 3.4 years. Now we have a libel attorney, we can talk and talk and talk and talk. (And never say a damn thing.)] John: Uh, we are fully prepared to meet them in a full court of law, and I promise you...it's the only thing I'll promise you...we will...be victorious. [As long as it's in Boulder, where we paid in advance.] John: But, we're not going to practice our trade in front of a camera. [Heavens no, not like we made Jon Benet do!] John: And so, for three years, we...bit our tongue. You know, we wanted to say, "That's not true." You know...that's...and protect our name and our reputation...but, uh...we were strongly advised against us...against it. [Because we couldn't.] John: In fact, I've often thought of the tabloids as a...basically a form of organized crime operating under the protection of the First Amendment. [Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. My libel lawyer can beat up your libel lawyer! Uh, I hope.] John: most of the laws in this country...as they pertain to, you know...speech...are put together with the USA Today's and the Washington Post's, and the New York Times' in mind. And, they want to be very careful that they're protected so they can exercise their role in society. [Uh, speech, that thing I don't do well with cotton-mouth. Yeah. all those USA Today's--there are so many of them. How dare they have a role in society? I say who does and who doesn't!] [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "janphi!" Posted by LurkerXIV on 14:13:45 3/25/2001 I just love your wry rejoinders. You and Dunvegan add an unprecedented dimension of writing excellence to this forum. You both must have had superior English teachers in your life. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Thank you, LurkerXIV" Posted by janphi on 17:07:59 3/25/2001 That was really sweet. I honestly can't help it--some things just write themselves. I was trying to think of something nice to say about my English teachers, but I only remember two of them (it's been A WHILE back!). I was a class cut-up and usually the teacher's pet, as well (ick), in the "verbal" classes. Probably didn't learn nearly as much as I should have and am "unlearning" too much posting online. Two journalism teachers in high school were probably the most influential on my future. Loved them both dearly and got much more emotional support from them through the years than I ever did from my parents. Strange how that worked. Thanks again. blush [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Yes, Lurker...I did have an extraordinary..." Posted by Dunvegan on 17:26:36 3/25/2001 ...English (and Drama) teacher in High School: Margaret Doyle. Mrs. Doyle virtually adopted me and kept me out at her house in my Junior and Senior years of High School. All, just to allow me a breather from the "hell-hole" and nut-house I grew up in...staying at her place (they had a HORSE!) with her and her 3 daughters, was a God-send. Mrs. Doyle would call my guardian...and give some convoluted and clever story about requirements...grading papers...anything. And, I would get to stay with her family weekend after weekend...sometimes for solid weeks at a time. I used to sit on the floor, at her feet, for hours correcting papers of junior classmen...we'd discuss issues, writers, philosophy, research...everything good. She was one in a billion. She cared and reached out to help me. Margaret Doyle passed away from a heart attack, several weeks after I graduated from High School. Devastating. This autumn...we're having a High School reunion. On one of the online boards devoted to our alumni...I asked about her daughters. I found out that the eldest (I was closest to her of all the girls) passed away several months ago. Devastating. But, Margaret lives on in everything I do. Thanks for the complement, Lurker...I'm passing it on directly upstairs to a woman who most thoroughly deserves it. And, to her daughter. It's because there were people that, once upon a time, who cared about me, that I feel a responsibility to care about children at risk...and children like JonBenet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Thanks so much, Dunvegan!" Posted by LurkerXIV on 13:39:49 3/25/2001 This is a fascinating read. I had read reports and excerpts at the time of this interview, but never the whole schmeer. Those two are incredible! Normal people? I don't think so, John. And how in the world did child porn magazines enter into it? When John thinks of the First Amendment, is that the first thing that pops into his head? "Father in Bed With Daughter!" Yup, we hear you, John. And "Almost Miss America", up on her podium, talking down to students whose average IQ certainly surpasses hers by double digits....Lordy, she makes me soooo sick! These two are the Frick and Frack of Murderers' Row. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "LOL...Lurker..." Posted by Dunvegan on 14:17:26 3/25/2001 "These two are the Frick and Frack of Murderers' Row." ...not to mention the "Burke and Hare" of Boulder. I just received from Scotland a long-awated first-edition copy of "Knave's Looking-Glass", by William Roughead. Roughead has been characterized as, "the first 'true crime' writer." "Knave's Looking Glass" is his volume where he recounts and "dissects" the infamous case of Burke and Hare in "The Wolves of the West Port: a Tale of Terror." Burke and Hare is the story of one of the most celebrated cases of mass murder in British criminal history. It occured in Edinburgh in the late 1820's. B & H became sort of "accidental mass murderers"...it started when an old man died at the lodging house where they lived, and which one of their women owned, owing the house money. Hare thought a surgical college would pay good money for the corpse, since dissection of corpses was illegal...and, consequently hard to come by. There was a lucrative "underground" in the grave-robbing trade, at the time, to fill just this particular demand. Well...after the initial easy money, Burke and Hare didn't feel lodgers were dying fast enough on their own to line the pair's pockets. So, they decided to assist their tenants in quickening their pace to serve science. This bit of grim murder history is where the term, "to burke" comes from. burke (būrk) v.tr., burked, burk·ing, burkes. 1.To suppress or extinguish quietly; stifle: burked the investigation by failing to reappoint the commission. 2.To avoid; disregard: "To make The Tempest a tragic and depressing play he was willing to burke all the elements that made it the exact opposite" (Robert M. Adams). 3.To execute (someone) by suffocation so as to leave the body intact and suitable for dissection. Didn't John...(Where was it? DOI?)...once say that HE chose Burke's name?...and that the name came to him in "a vision"? What the heck did he mean by that...? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "if they were TRUELY innocent" Posted by Edie Pratt on 14:09:40 3/25/2001 the FIRST person/agency they would sue would be Boulder's spokesperson, Leslie Aaholm. She is responsible for all the media attention and the country's FIRST suspicion that the parents killed JonBenet. "there's NO killer on the loose" set off the dominos, and yet, the Ramsey's have done NOTHING to punish that woman for her telling comments on Dec. 28th, 1996. Nothing. Second in line for a suit would be Lockheed Martin, for their dismisal of Fat Boy. Is it constitutional to fire an employee for HIS REFUSAL to take a polygraph? Whoa! Don't pull a BPD! LOL, these two are too much... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "luvsflower and Dunvegan" Posted by listener on 15:08:49 3/25/2001 luvs......Thank you for your analysis of all the Johnisms, 'cause quickly skimming, I only noticed the *and hence* one. Could be the three annoying chainsaws going full boar in the yard that are distrupting my thinking process. And Dunvegan, thank you for the above and beyond! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Blubbering Johnnie" Posted by sarah on 16:50:27 3/25/2001 Gosh, golly gee, Johnnieboy just can't seem to stop blubbering all over himself and mimicing that awful ramsom note written by the ole one legged hairless midget pedophile Intruder.. From the Ramsom note: " we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics.." So Johnnie says: " .. it would...counterbalances the bad, uh...and um...cause I've thought about this a lot." The ramsom note says: "You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back.." So Johnnie says.. "..whether 20% of the people feel we're guilty, or 80%. We know the truth" >>p.s.--so do we, Johnnieboy,lol.<< The ramsom note says: .."so I advise you to be rested" So Johnnie says: " ".. uh...we were strongly advised against us...against it." Hey doncha think maybe Johnnieboy sounds a lot like that ole Ramsom note writer? Why is that? The ramsom note says: , John! Victory! S.B.T.C. So Johnnie says: .."it's the only thing I'll promise you...we will...be victorious." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Listen up.." Posted by Greenleaf on 16:02:35 3/25/2001 Patsy: "... I said, "WHOA, WHOA, WHAA...whoa, whoa, whoa! Listen to what you just said! 'Self-sponsored polygraph test.'" Ransom note: "Listen carefully!" FWIW, my critique of "the interview:" Well, you know, it sounded, you know, pretty silly to me. And, you know, really, you know, it did. Patsy, you know, rambled on and on, you know, like an idiot, you know. And, John, you know, hee-hawed around, you know, like a juvenile guiltlinquent, you know. Also, you know, there were power-puff questions, you know. And, what did we learn, you know. Nothing, you know; absolutely nothing, you know, except how very dumb they both are. You know? Greenleaf (I think) Dunvegan, thank you, thank you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "And Greenleaf.." Posted by sarah on 16:54:56 3/25/2001 Uh..I mean er, wha -tha,. AND that Johnnie boy wants to overthrow the government, and our country, lol [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Well, Sarah....." Posted by sds on 17:14:02 3/25/2001 I guess that Johnny Boy forgot about calling in the Russian Army again.....Remember he wanted to do that to save his little daughter? Sarah, you got his number and so did Neidra. Like I said, what a bunch of loosers these Ramseys are. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]