Justice Watch Support JW "Newseum Transcript 3- Final Part" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Newseum Transcript 3- Final Part, Dunvegan, 13:29:17, 3/25/2001 Newseum Transcript (3 of 3), Dunvegan, 13:31:54, 3/25/2001, (#1) Newseum Transcript (3 of 3)- End, Dunvegan, 13:32:57, 3/25/2001, (#2) One last thing...Janphi:, Dunvegan, 13:53:31, 3/25/2001, (#3) Yikes....oh the confessions and lies..., Country Girl, 14:22:20, 3/25/2001, (#4) We were close??, Country Girl, 14:35:42, 3/25/2001, (#7) NTSB?...SBTC?, Dunvegan, 14:31:49, 3/25/2001, (#6) excellent, CG, Edie Pratt, 14:24:41, 3/25/2001, (#5) What are the percentages..., Dunvegan, 14:46:07, 3/25/2001, (#9) Edie,, Country Girl, 14:43:13, 3/25/2001, (#8) CG...I really think what J&P mean..., Dunvegan, 14:53:19, 3/25/2001, (#11) Take A Bow Dunvy ..., Mandarin, 14:49:31, 3/25/2001, (#10) I cannnot get over ..., Mandarin, 15:00:06, 3/25/2001, (#12) hey, Mandarin, Edie Pratt, 15:07:05, 3/25/2001, (#14) Ha ha ha, DUN, thank YOU!, janphi, 15:06:33, 3/25/2001, (#13) who is..., Texan, 19:03:04, 3/25/2001, (#15) Urge to purge, Anton, 21:33:04, 3/25/2001, (#17) ....yep, jonesy, 21:16:04, 3/25/2001, (#16) Hey, Edie! , Dunvegan, 04:41:37, 3/26/2001, (#18) Mrs. Moxley, v_p, 06:34:04, 3/26/2001, (#19) Have you ever, momo, 07:49:03, 3/26/2001, (#20) Here's what I don't get - , gaiabetsy, 07:57:45, 3/26/2001, (#21) Dunvegan, you poor thing!, Cassandra, 09:29:39, 3/26/2001, (#22) Dunvegan, Mini, 13:15:38, 3/26/2001, (#23) Edie ..., Mandarin, 13:42:37, 3/26/2001, (#24) SO Close they could taste it?, Sabrina, 14:02:06, 3/26/2001, (#25) Mini...good question..., Dunvegan, 14:23:52, 3/26/2001, (#26) Sabrina, momo, 14:35:11, 3/26/2001, (#27) Dunvegan, ayelean, 15:33:24, 3/26/2001, (#28) DUNVEGAN!!!, janphi, 18:21:45, 3/26/2001, (#33) yeah, Ayelean, Edie Pratt, 17:12:12, 3/26/2001, (#30) Ayelean ..., Mandarin, 15:44:34, 3/26/2001, (#29) Marc Klaas..., Dunvegan, 17:19:24, 3/26/2001, (#31) re Burke, Bets, 17:56:07, 3/26/2001, (#32) Dear Bets, Edie Pratt, 18:29:50, 3/26/2001, (#34) All Patsy can say ..., Mandarin, 23:30:31, 3/26/2001, (#35) Bets & ayelean, Anton, 00:16:44, 3/27/2001, (#36) ................................................................... "Newseum Transcript 3- Final Part" Posted by Dunvegan on 13:29:17 3/25/2001 ARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH! (Whew! I hope you forgive me, but I just had to scream...having Ram-ear-itis for 2 days is really painful.) Completely subjective remark: Having listened, at high volume and with headphones, to the Ramseys for two days...it is my considered, and entirely personal belief, that their voices sound evasive and G-U-I-L-T-Y. Now, that out of the way...I'm posting below the last part. The tape suddenly started buzzing, and then no sound of recording followed...so, I'm assuming that either the sound reproduction machine had a barfing attack...or the tape is otherwise faulty. I tried several differend playback decks...and gave up. Here, without further ado, is the last installation of "John and Patsy do Media".... [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Newseum Transcript (3 of 3)" Posted by Dunvegan on 13:31:54 3/25/2001 MODERATOR: You know, you talked a little about the court of public opinion...I think, Amanda, you had a question about perceptions, initially? STUDENT QUESTIONER #8: Right. I'm Amanda...I'm another student. Do you think the media overplayed your daughter as a beauty queen? And, how did the media's portrayal, with the pageant pictures effect the public's view of you as parents? PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think a lot of things...you know; timing, availability of video footage, all contributed to...that perception of John and me as parents...and also, enabled...the world...to...see...so much of JonBenet, vs. one little school picture. And I, I'm almost certain, that is why...you know, the world knows of her so much more than just a child who was killed somewhere and they just have one little picture available. Uh...you know, I grew up in a...in a small town in West Virginia. Lived in Atlanta for years, and years, and years...it's a...kinda of a "Southern thing"...is the beauty pageant deal. I was involved in the Miss America pageant, it paid a lot of my college tuition with scholarships from the Miss America pageant...I'm gonna watch it this weekend on television. Um...but people have condemned that...for their own sick reasons. I mean, it is not unlike parents I know who get their...their eight and nine year olds up at the crack of dawn, and take them to an ice hockey rink, its 5 a.m., because it's the only time that they can get "rink time." Um...it's not unlike little boys being...you know, dressed in...um...those wrestling outfits they wear. You know, I mean...it's just...JonBenet was a performer. She...we would have a dinner party, and she would come downstairs with a pom-pom on her head...and a tutu on, and say, "Watch me, watch me...I wanna sing a song for you!" You know...and everybody would have to sit there and...and watch...while she did her little thing. And, I've gotten letters from mothers and parents that say, you know, "My little girl was the same way. Now, she's a vocal performance major at...XYZ University." It was just something to...grab a-hold of...um, ... JOHN RAMSEY: You know, she did a lot of things...and that was one of them. She also took violin lessons, and French lessons, we had her signed up to do rock climbing...our approach with the kids was we would like them to find one thing that they were good at, that they could be proud of themselves...and, they tried a lot of different things. JonBenet tried...she took dance lessons, and...and, uh...we have pictures of that, too...but the, the uh...pageant pictures are what got out. And, um...she did...I used to tell her that it doesn't matter whether you're the prettiest or have the prettiest dress on...it's your talent that counts, and uh...cause, each one of these little events had a talent portion, and...she would always tell me, "I worked really hard on my talent, Dad." And, in fact, I wear this medal that she'd given me...in her last little competition. Where she'd won the overall talent award. And, she was just a very talented kid. She loved to get on a stage, and perform. My biggest fear was that she was going to run off to Hollywood. And, uh...(laughs) PATSY RAMSEY: Now, see...Burke is not like that. He came home a couple weeks ago, and saying that he thought he might want to try out for the middle school play...and I was like, "Wow! You know, this is...this is a big deal!" And I said, "What part are you trying out for?" I'm thinking the lead, you know...he said, "Aw, I wanna be on the sound crew." You know. OK. (sounds disappointed) But, you know, kids are different. Burke can do...you ought to see what he can do with a skateboard. You know...blows my mind. But kids have different...fortes. JOHN RAMSEY: But...to be specific...it absolutely...portrayed a picture that was inaccurate...biased...opinions...I believe. No question. MODERATOR: Let's take a look at one of the tabloid pages that we're talking about today. This one, you know we're talking about the words that are used. And this banner red headline says, "Little Beauty Sex Murder." Doesn't say "Violin-playing Girl Killed."...or something like that. That's deliberate...well, you know, obviously this sensationalism of...and then, then also it says, "Crime Scene Photos" in the Globe. And, these are photographs of the, of the crime scene and of her...which we're not going to show to you, but you get the idea of what's selling this newspaper. It's being sold on the words: "beauty", "sex murder", and "six-year old". And that is the fundamental elements of the...of it. And, it brings up a question: the psychology of tragedy. And, you know, we've been exposed to so many murders, and so many things over the years that it seems to me that...that whether you look at OJ Simpson, or the...or the Kennedy death that there's some kind of American fascination with, you know: the last possible victim. The last possible person you would think could be accused of murder. OJ Simpson. The last possible person you think could run his plane into the ocean...Kennedy. The last possible person you could think would be killed in their own home...your daughter. And, do you think...have you thought about that? And do you...is it, is it so much the...is it almost just the worst terrible situation that...you know, you say that many other people have been in the same situation...your case was singled out...I mean, you were right there in-between OJ and Monica Lewinsky...in a slot, almost... JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. MODERATOR: ..."The Story!" And, do you think that what I'm just...is there any validity to what I'm saying about this tragedy that...this psychology of tragedy? JOHN RAMSEY: It's...it's...I think you have to look at who buys that stuff. It's an element of voyeurism. Just like people that buy any other kind of pornography. The problem with the tabloids is that the headlines are visible to hundreds of millions of people. A very small fraction of people ever buy one of those things. But...I used to...I used to do it myself! Walk through a grocery store, you know: "Two-Headed Baby Born in Kansas!"...you think, "Whoa!" You know? Could that be? You kinda know it's not true...but you...there's just this little element of, "Gee, I wonder if that's true?" And, there's a survey taken...back...that 7% of the Americans believe that the tabloid stuff is true. You think, "Well, that's great." But, that's one out of ten...roughly. That's a big number that believe that stuff. MODERATOR: Well, the problem I have is that when you see four in a row, and says "It was John!"..."It was Patsy!"..."It was Burke!"..."It was all of them!"..."It was none of them!" Those things can't all possibly be true. JOHN RAMSEY: No, it's kind of...Burke's...what they figure was that Burke sells...and we actually have that on tape from one of the editor's of the tabloids. So...let's run more Burke stuff. PATSY RAMSEY: He's nine years old... JOHN RAMSEY: Our fundamental position with the tabloids, is look, if we as a society are going to permit this stuff...fine...you gotta take the good with the bad...freedom of press, and freedom of speech. But, are we going to let them attack our children? We let them attack our movie stars...and our politicians...but are we going to let them attack out children? For profit? And, it's a form of pornography...and we allow it to be displayed...for all to see...at the Wall-mart...at the check-out stand. You know: why shouldn't it be wrapped with the brown paper wrapper, just like...a Penthouse magazine? MODERATOR: Another question from our students... How are you doing...Good morning. Phil (redacted) from University of Maryland, Public Relations student. I'm wondering if...if you're ever to be prosecuted, would you testify on your own behalf, for JonBenet's murder? JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, sure. We asked to testify before the Grand Jury...and we were never called. We've never been concerned about a trial, I mean, we don't want to go through that horrible, uh...disgrace. Uh, but we've never been afraid of the outcome: it would be a massacre. And uh...the good news is a Grand Jury looked at a one-sided presentation...for 13 months, and said, "No." And it takes about that much evidence to indict someone...you know. Would we want to go through that...horrible embarrassment? No. Would we? Sure. Cause we know the outcome. It would be a...in fact, I've said...I'd love to have it televised, if they ever did that...I'd love for the public to see what's been done to us. MODERATOR: Patsy, we have a number of media who are here, covering this event, and they're going to go back and write stories, or file stories for broadcast, and...I'm wondering what you would tell them as they start thinking about how to put their stories together, and what you would tell my students who are going to be scrutinizing their stories, about this, tomorrow? (pause) MODERATOR: Write your story...write your own story here! PATSY RAMSEY: Write your story! (laughter) I'm glad you came to class today, I hope you learned something! MODERATOR: Nothing else? PATSY RAMSEY: You know what? The proof's in the pudding! Let's see what happens tomorrow. Right? JOHN RAMSEY: I'll tell you what our...our thought process is...what we've been trying to do for, literally for three and a half years now, is to get...objective...experienced investigators...on this case. We've hired...uh, one fellow who's investigated 300 homicides, works on full-time. There's only so much a private citizen can do. So...how do we get the government to do the right thing here, from our perspective? How do we get them to investigate...if we get them...if we get the government to look at...uh, the leads we have...with one tenth of the energy that they've looked at us...we'd be thrilled. So, how do we do that? The only way we can do it, is through public pressure. Our government responds to public pressure. The police respond to public pressure. And, so...if we can get the public...and the media to start saying, "Wait. Something is fishy, here." You know, there was another girl who was attacked the same way, nine months later. Same M.O., same...you know, a carbon copy of...the only difference was that it was interrupted...thankfully...before potentially a murder took place. Who knows what the outcome would have been. And...bring pressure on the police to do the right thing. That's what we hope to do. And, that's the only...there's no...you know, we've got 18,000 police jurisdictions in this country, all of which are autonomous...authorities, in their local communities. There's no higher authority. We can't go to the next...you know, to the Division level, and say, "Would you please investigate this?" MODERATOR: That would be the "good media"...looking at the role of the media... JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah! Right! And...and not...I don't care...we've told people that we've...we've told the police: "OK, if we have our...if we could ask for one thing...take two of your detectives and say, OK...you go and investigate the Ramseys, keep investigating...YOU two, assume the Ramseys are innocent, and go look at...uh... PATSY RAMSEY: Everything else. JOHN RAMSEY: Everything else. MODERATOR: In your book - PATSY RAMSEY: We'd be thrilled! MODERATOR: - you detail leads that remain...untracked... JOHN RAMSEY: As far as we know. We don't know what's going on. So, if we can bring that kind of awareness to the surface...and bring public pressure to bear on the bureaucrats, which the police are, that's our only hope. PATSY RAMSEY: The other thing is too...I mean, I'm not...sure I understand why the media wasn't all over Governor Owens like a cheap suit...when he made such an outrageous comment. You know...insinuating - MODERATOR: Repeat the comment for the...you mean... PATSY RAMSEY: Well...he implied that he knew that we were guilty! You know... JOHN RAMSEY: - Despite what the Grand Jury concluded. PATSY RAMSEY: This is the, you know, I mean I don't know how many times before we said, "God, can't we go to the State Attorney General? Or, Janet Reno? Or, somebody? And, then...here the Governor comes out (!) I mean, even if we are guilty...you know, he should not...be the justice system! To come out and say, (lowers voice to imitate Owens) "I have decided they're guilty!" MODERATOR: You had the same kind of thing with the mayor? JOHN RAMSEY: Sure. In the very beginning... PATSY RAMSEY: YEAH! MODERATOR: (garbled)..."our town is safe...there is no killer on the loose"...that sort of... JOHN RAMSEY: A lot of people say that was the turning point... PATSY RAMSEY: That was the pivotal... JOHN RAMSEY: ...from that day on...and we, said...we were asked...what would you ask the people of Boulder, and we said, "Be aware that there's a killer out there." And, the mayor came out and said, "Oh, no...there's no killer...." PATSY RAMSEY: (whispering in staccato counterpoint, in the background, imitating the mayor:) "Don't worry...don't worry...don't worry...don't worry...." JOHN RAMSEY: ...the subliminal message is there. MODERATOR: Yeah. And these are the people...in charge of the law enforcement infrastructure... PATSY RAMSEY: Exactly. MODERATOR: ...that you, responsible to the people... PATSY RAMSEY: The media, to me, should have been saying, "Whoa! Wait a minute!" Who gave the Governor the right to do...you know, is this where we're going as a country? To allow our publicly-elected officials to do this? But, you know it was, you know...sensational...or sexy... JOHN RAMSEY: Well, there's been a lot of investmentt in our guilt. MODERATOR: Let's get to our students. Yes, you're on. STUDENT QUESTIONER #9: My name's Danielle (redacted) and I'm not a student in Mr. Morrison's class...I'm a little further along. I'm in the law class right now, and studying something similar to what is sounds like your son is studying...and, we're studying the difference between public figures...and public people and private people. Do you consider yourselves to be public people, and where does the line get drawn? JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah...we don't consider ourselves public people. I've always wondered why there was a distinction...why should the law look at citizens differently? A citizen is a citizen, under the law. In fact, that law, is a real problem...it's very protective of the media because they can, in effect, make you a public person...thereby protecting themselves from...the normal libel and slander laws...if you're a public person you have to prove it was done with malice. And, that's a very difficult...uh, threshold. I've always wondered, why should there be a difference? A citizen is a citizen, under most of our laws...why is there a difference in a class of citizen, relative to the media? So...are we considered a public figure by the courts? Probably...absolutely, yes. And I think that was probably...you know...we became that when we did our little CNN interview, in the beginning. Had I known...I mean, you can't know...but if someone who had been through this whole process, and took us aside and said, "Wait a minute. You've got to understand how this works."...It would have been difficult...because we couldn't have spoken out. I mean, the only public vehicle to speak out, is through the media. Really. I mean...how do you...how do you communicate today? It's gotta be through the media. Well, as soon as you do that...you're a public figure, therefore...uh...you have no... PATSY RAMSEY: You're exempt from... JOHN RAMSEY: ...fundamentally no rights...protection under the libel/slander laws...which is what the media will tell you IS your protection. So...I think it's a huge problem in our...structure. I don't think there should be a difference...public people...you're a citizen...period. MODERATOR: Sarah, do you want to... STUDENT QUESTIONER #10: My name is Sarah (redacted) and I'm actually one of Blake's students. But, you were talking earlier about how you've thought about this a great deal...how do we fix the problems of the media. How would you, from your perspective? JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I don't...I don't have a good answer. I've mean, I've thought about it a lot...it's run the gamut from...you know...in the beginning I thought this would just be a public broadcasting system and...that's it. We realize, well, that's...not gonna work...the whole reason that we have freedom of press is that...is to keep the government accountable. So...long term, that was a bad idea. I think it's a...ultimately, the media...the bad elements of the media have to be held accountable. Financially. In court. That's ultimately the solution. I don't...uh...I...say about me what you want...but if you violated...me under the law...I expect accountability. I think that, pure and simple, is the way you address...you know...the bottom end of the problem. PATSY RAMSEY: I think another way is...and this really didn't dawn on me until a journalist said, "Well, hey! If a police officer tells me something...am I allowed to report that? He should be a credible source." And I said, "Well...I guess so...you know...it seems to me like the problem is that the people in the justice system, or any kind of law enforcement, should not be allowed to have such a open dialogue...for communications in the press...if they do, you know. The Chief of Police of Atlanta can come out and say, "This happened. We know that, you know, ten people were killed in an office building on this day." And, that's it. I mean, there shouldn't be the ability for a cop, like Steve Thomas, to have these...you know, under the table, deep throat conversations with...I don't care who it is...whether it's Tom Brokaw, or Tony Frost from the Globe. That's a ... JOHN RAMSEY: That's a violation of public trust.... PATSY RAMSEY: I think...a big...big thing. Journalists can just say, (changes voice) "Wh-h-h-a-t! Here's the Chief of Police and the lead detective! He's the Governor...why shouldn't I repeat that!" You know, I think that is probably where the biggest...there SHOULD be a law...somewhere, somehow eliminating that...scenario.... MODERATOR: Question here. STUDENT QUESTIONER #11: Hi. Good afternoon. My name is Aton (redacted) and I'm a Freshman journalism major at Maryland. You spoke earlier about communicating through the media...I just wanted to ask, in your opinion, what's been the most effective mode of communicating your side of the story? Has it been through your book, or through appearing on shows, just 20/20...just what do you think has the best effect on letting the public know...you know...your side? JOHN RAMSEY: Well, the book we wrote, so that there was a...one document that was complete...unedited...uncut, that would be around for anybody that wanted to read it...forever...what we've enjoyed...in terms of communicating, the most, is live television. And that's...because you can't be cut. And, it's embarrassing for the host to cut you off...you're trying to make a point. It also becomes a "numbers game." I mean, the book...you know, a good book in this country will sell, you know...the average book sells a very few numbers...it's about 60...65,000 books that come out every year, or something like that. And, the average book sells about 6,000 copies. A best-seller will sell about 200,000 copies...so, you reach 400,000 people. You go on the Today Show...you'll talk to 7 million people. You do a Barbara Walters' Special...and you'll talk to 20 million people. And, so that becomes a bigger...for us that was the issue...you know, for three years...hundreds of millions of people have heard that we were evil people, that killed our pa-...killed our child. How do you, how do you make a dent in that? And, um... PATSY RAMSEY: I've always said in these litigations, that part of the settlement should be equal...inches. You know, if there have been... MODERATOR: And, in the same place! PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah! JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah! Right! PATSY RAMSEY: If there have been a hundred and fifty...you know, banner headlines that said, "Parents Did It!"...or, "Son Did It!"...or, "The Dog Did It!"...or, whatever. There should be...I want a hundred and fifty headlines, same size, type, same color that says, "Parents Are Nice People"...or, something! (laughs) JOHN RAMSEY: Now...the problem is... PATSY RAMSEY: I'd put them outta business! JOHN RAMSEY:...it, it works on me...is that the first headlines...the first impressions stick with you. I was watching a biography about Ricky Nelson the other night. And, I'd always thought that Ricky Nelson was cooking up cocaine in the back of an airplane, it caught on fire...and it crashed. That was the initial headline. And, here, twenty years later, in this biography...I find out that that's not true at all. That the NTSB investigated it, and that was totally false! Yes...it was reported...but...I thought, "Oh, my God! That happened to me!" I thought, "That's what happened!" And I was...I had no...I wasn't aware of any follow-up information that came out that said, "no...that's not at all what happened." And, that's the problem in our situation. And, there...and we...I've always said we can find, convict, and...uh, uh...execute the killer...and there'll still be 15% of the people walking around there, who still believe the parents did it. MODERATOR: Another question? STUDENT QUESTIONER #12: My name is Dena...I'm a Junior, a journalism major at Maryland. And, your last question kind of, um...leads into mine, about the television. The TV moment that struck me most was when I saw you on Larry King Live with the detective...I don't remember his name... PATSY RAMSEY: Steve Thomas. STUDENT QUESTIONER #12: Oh, OK. He...like outright accused you of murdering your daughter. As I was watching it...I remember like, feeling the tension...you know...on the set; it felt very tense and awkward and I was wondering how you felt doing that, and when you were going into that interview, did it turn out the way you had expected it to? Or, did you feel like it... JOHN RAMSEY: Well... PATSY RAMSEY: (loudly...in a "Don't go there, Pal!" tone) You could have cut it with a knife! It was SO tense in there! (laughs) JOHN RAMSEY: There's an old axiom that you should never argue with a fool in public. And, there we were. But, um...he was, he was our primary accuser. And, um...if we're going to address this head-on, you know...we've got to address him head-on. It was, for me, it was the last place in the world I wanted to be. I couldn't hardly stand to be in the same room with the guy. All the horrible things he'd done to my family. But, um...that was not a pleasant evening. Did it turn out the way I'd hoped? Um...I guess that's in the eyes of the viewer. I don't know...what our frustration has been, with...with a guy like that is that...uh, um...he, he is...can be...he's a poster child for all that's wrong with the justice system. And, unfortunately, it came to bear on us. And...uh...we'd hoped that people would...would see that. As we so clearly saw it. PATSY RAMSEY: You should have been there during the commercial breaks. (John laughs in the background) You know, at least...at least when you're on the air, everyone is kinda doing something...you know...I mean, when it was silent...I mean, even Larry King, was like, "Well...uh...how about those Braves?" And, mean Steve Thomas was fidgeting...and lookin' at his watch...and you know...I mean, I was closer than I am to you...and he was just...you know (laughing)...it was... Voice from the audience: You can tell us! PATSY RAMSEY: ...heh... MODERATOR: ...Somewhere beyond weird... PATSY RAMSEY: Way! MODERATOR: One more student question, then we'll turn to our reporters. STUDENT QUESTIONER #13: Hi. My name's Chris. I'm a Sophomore at Maryland, a journalism student. My question's more about your role as parents, more than media figures. And, my question is: How do you deal with the ever-present negativity imposed by constant accusations, and suspicions, but still mourn, as parents, the loss of your daughter? 'Cause that gets seems to get lost so easily in the shuffle. Like, this is the most important part. That's not really addressed that much. JOHN RAMSEY: You're absolutely correct. The one fact that everyone knows about us, for sure, is that we are parents of a murdered child. And, and that has been totally lost. And I could tell you, after losing two children now, that you never get over that. A hole in your heart that never goes away. You learn to live with it. (sigh) Um, but your life's changed forever. It's a...you don't laugh the same...you don't enjoy things the same as you did. What's been interesting, and thankfully it's given us a lot of faith in humanity, is that...uh, people that have approached us, when we're out...you know: traveling or grocery store, or whatever...100% of the time...not one exception...100% of the time have been kind...sympathetic...apologetic. And, people say, "How is it to go out in public?" And I say, "It's great! People have been wonderful to us!" And, and that's without exception. So, that's the good side we've seen...in dealing with this. And, the only people who've really been cruel to us...visibly...have been the Boulder Police and the media. And...(laughs) I hate to say "never", 'cause that'll give somebody the challenge to be...be the first. But, we have never...no one has ever come up to us and been anything but kind, and...uh, compassionate. And, that makes us - PATSY RAMSEY: Thank you. Thank you for your question. JOHN RAMSEY: - feel good. STUDENT QUESTIONER #13: You're welcome. MODERATOR: Let's turn to our reporters. Tell us who you are, and where you're from. MIKE WALTER: I'm Mike Walter, I'm with USA Today Live. I've heard you mention Barbara Walters, Larry King, Katie Couric. I want you to draw a distinction, if you can, about the local media. Do you find that the Atlanta television stations are treating you a little bit better than the Denver TV stations? Or, is there any distinction? JOHN RAMSEY: Um...I don't think so. I mean I think...it's...it's more of a tier...um. See, what I think...what I think happened in this was that the, um...the local...media in Colorado was getting information from the...the police...and, and drawing conclusions. And then, the national media was picking it up...as facts. So, they were kinda doing the investigative work for the national media. And, that's what kinda got replayed nationally. The...I think...at, at...at the level of local television stations, and local newspaper...I mean, the Denver Post has been pretty...uh, pretty heartless...frankly. Uh, and...and not objective. Where...where the Atlanta Constitution has been...probably more...more objective in the things that they report. With the exception of the "lavish lifestyle" we "had to give up"...I thought that was kinda of a cheap shot. But, um... PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, is...is there a difference between the mindset in Georgia, and the mindset in Colorado? I know that I would say, "Definitely. Yes!" And, I think a lot of that is due to the fact that the media...has just...of how it has been reported in Colorado. I mean, if you look at...you know, polls...and this, that, and the other thing...I mean, Colorado (very emphasized, loudly) HATES us! You know? Um... JOHN RAMSEY: Not everyone. We get some wonderful letters from Colorado people that say, "I'm embarrassed by what our Governor has said...and what has happened to you. I'm ashamed of our state." And we...and we knew wonderful people in Colorado. PATSY RAMSEY: (sigh) Yeah... JOHN RAMSEY: And, so...you can't...you can't categorically say that. But... PATSY RAMSEY: But, by and large, the media out there has kinda manipulated the...the...balance...you know... MIKE WALTER: Do you feel...I know you (garbled)...this will be my last question, because I know other people want to ask.... But, I heard you talking about leads that you've developed...and, and the police. Do you find that when you come to them with leads, that they just "poo-poo" it? Or.... JOHN RAMSEY: Pretty much. Pretty much. MIKE WALTER: How frustrating is that? PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, very frustrating! JOHN RAMSEY: Extremely frustrating, because where...where else do you take them? I don't know. I mean...ah... PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, I wish we could go to Atlanta homicide, and say, (assumes rushed, hushed voice) "Here! Look at this! You know, do something with this." Or, New York City. Or, LA. Someplace that...that does this a lot. But, all we have...the Boulder police...are...IT! You know. That's....that's....(slaps her hands together)..."The Wall!" That's it. That's all you have. JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah...and, and our frustration is the lack of openness... PATSY RAMSEY: - Expertise. JOHN RAMSEY: ... and objectivity. I don't...they can investigate us for...20 more years, if they want...if they would just investigate the rest of the leads as well.... PATSY RAMSEY: And, they'll tell you that they've done that! JOHN RAMSEY: ...objectively. PATSY RAMSEY: They'll say, (assumes dopey-sounding voice) "Oh, yeah...we know all about that...we've done that." But... JOHN RAMSEY: ...but, it's done with the objective of dismissing the lead. Their...their strategy in the beginning was...in fact, they said it publicly...that, uh...eliminate the defenses. In other words, here's the group of suspects; eliminate everybody and see who's left. And, of course, we were...the ones they wanted to have left. So, uh...that was their strategy in looking at leads. PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, we've heard that they would...you know, interview you...and say, "OK, where were you Christmas Night?" (assumes silly voice) "Well...I was at home with my Mom...." "OK! Check. You know. Take his word for it." (laughs) "He was home...or, you know. JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. We've looked into a number of the alibied, so-called, interesting leads that weren't valid at all. That were accepted by the police...as... PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, I've heard...on the few snippets that I have watched of some people being interviewed...I said, "I don't know what else they said...but, I know THAT is a lie." You know. Well...whatever - JOHN RAMSEY: But, it is frustrating...absolutely. PATSY RAMSEY: Really frustrating. CONTINUED IN THE NEXT POST... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Newseum Transcript (3 of 3)- End" Posted by Dunvegan on 13:32:57 3/25/2001 MODERATOR: A third of the murder cases aren't solved. I mean, realistically...since the FBI was...denied...early involvement, in this case. I take it, from what you're saying, it would have been better...had they, hat they been there. But, since it happened...you know, what are the chances that this is really ever going to be solved? JOHN RAMSEY: Well, we've been told...I've asked these investigators that are working on it...independent of the police...who have lots and lots of experience. Collectively they've investigated like 500 homicides. I said, "How ya feeling? You feeling pessimistic, optimistic, or just kinda...neutral?" And, they said, "No...we're optimistic. This case can be solved. We gotta have the information the police have...or the cooperation of the police. But, it can be solved." PATSY RAMSEY: One of the DAs, who was on the case when Lou Smit was there...told us, "If we had had..." and I can't remember whether he said, "two more weeks" or "two more months"...He said, "We were ALMOST there." He said, "We were so close, I could TASTE it." I'm not kidding you! MODERATOR: Hmmm. PATSY RAMSEY: He said this. And then, you know, Romer steps in...yanks the rug out...takes everybody off, and puts in three Special Prosecutors. He said, "We were CLOSE!" I mean, he said, "I could TASTE it!" How close is that? MODERATOR: Um hmmm (affirmative.) PATSY RAMSEY: Questions from our reporters? SCOTT STREAMODERATOR: Yes. Hello, my name is Scott Stream, with the Chronicle of Higher Education. I was interested...you have spoken a little bit about accountability, and how you thought that the news organizations...really, the only accountability they had was financially. Interested to see what you thought about, a couple weeks ago the New York Times ran a retraction about...responding to their coverage in the Wen Ho Lee case, and acknowledging that they had been inaccurate in some of that reporting. Is that something that you would like to see, or would accept, as a form of accountability in this case...if that turned out that way? JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I think that's a....that's part of it. I mean, certainly saying, "I'm sorry." Yeah. Absolutely. Or, "I was wrong." And, doing it in an equal...level of...exposure. Um...make it across...it doesn't really matter...it doesn't take a lot of...uh...uh...extract a lot of...pain, frankly, for the damage that was caused. PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, the way these...you know, these publications...and you probably are...I'm not telling you anything you don't know...is that, you know, the possibility of being sued for libel and slander is a line item in the cost of doing business. ######## TAPE ENDS HERE ########### [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "One last thing...Janphi:" Posted by Dunvegan on 13:53:31 3/25/2001 You're S-o-o-o-o good...it was worth the entire transcription just to read your remarks! So true...so funny...why, I just feel like... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Yikes....oh the confessions and lies..." Posted by Country Girl on 14:22:20 3/25/2001 PATSY RAMSEY: And, then...here the Governor comes out (!) I mean, even if we are guilty...you know, he should not...be the justice system! Thanks for finally fessing up! JOHN RAMSEY:...... I was watching a biography about Ricky Nelson the other night. Thought you don't have a TV John! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "We were close??" Posted by Country Girl on 14:35:42 3/25/2001 PATSY RAMSEY: One of the DAs, who was on the case when Lou Smit was there...told us, "If we had had..." and I can't remember whether he said, "two more weeks" or "two more months"...He said, "We were ALMOST there." He said, "We were so close, I could TASTE it." I'm not kidding you! MODERATOR: Hmmm. PATSY RAMSEY: He said this. And then, you know, Romer steps in...yanks the rug out...takes everybody off, and puts in three Special Prosecutors. He said, "We were CLOSE!" I mean, he said, "I could TASTE it!" How close is that? DeMuth? Who? If they were so close, why would the grand jury matter? John talks about the grand jury only hearing one side of it yet Lou Smit and John Douglas both testified. And John, I hope you will keep your word about testifying at the trial and having it on TV. You have already changed your mind during the same interview about Court TV I guess. You need to remember your lines...you're getting confused. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "NTSB?...SBTC?" Posted by Dunvegan on 14:31:49 3/25/2001 Speaking of the Ricky Nelson reference.... JOHN RAMSEY:...it, it works on me...is that the first headlines...the first impressions stick with you. I was watching a biography about Ricky Nelson the other night. And, I'd always thought that Ricky Nelson was cooking up cocaine in the back of an airplane, it caught on fire...and it crashed. That was the initial headline. And, here, twenty years later, in this biography...I find out that that's not true at all. That the NTSB investigated it, and that was totally false! Yes...it was reported...but...I thought, "Oh, my God! That happened to me!" I thought, "That's what happened!" And I was...I had no...I wasn't aware of any follow-up information that came out that said, "no...that's not at all what happened." The NTSB John? We know that NTSB stands for the National Transportation Safety Board...but then what does "SBTC" stand for? "NTSB" rolled "trippingly-fast" off John's usually gob-stuck tongue...it took me 4 rewinds to get it, he said it so quick...John was amazingly facile with that one particualar abbreviation.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "excellent, CG" Posted by Edie Pratt on 14:24:41 3/25/2001 didn't he mention NO tv in this interview, too? (their words go in one eye and out the other for me, sometimes I can't pay attention:-) ) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "What are the percentages..." Posted by Dunvegan on 14:46:07 3/25/2001 ...that the ransom note writer/dictator uses "percentages" a good deal in their way of thinking...and in their speech...? Let's count from the Newseum interview the people who made references to percentages: JOHN RAMSEY: You know, Patsy and I...it's not a issue to us as to how people feel...whether 20% of the people feel we're guilty, or 80%. (2) JOHN RAMSEY: And, there's a survey taken...back...that 7% of the Americans believe that the tabloid stuff is true. You think, "Well, that's great." But, that's one out of ten...roughly. That's a big number that believe that stuff. (3) JOHN RAMSEY: And, there...and we...I've always said we can find, convict, and...uh, uh...execute the killer...and there'll still be 15% of the people walking around there, who still believe the parents did it. (4) JOHN RAMSEY: What's been interesting, and thankfully it's given us a lot of faith in humanity, is that...uh, people that have approached us, when we're out...you know: traveling or grocery store, or whatever...100% of the time...not one exception...100% of the time have been kind...sympathetic...apologetic. SCORE: John: 6 occurrences of "%". Patsy: 0 occurrences of "%" Everyone else: 0 occurrences of "%" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Edie," Posted by Country Girl on 14:45:38 3/25/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:45:38, 3/25/2001 Yep...from the first part of the transcript: JOHN RAMSEY: We took television out of our home a couple years ago...uh, because we didn't want our son to, uh...stumble across Geraldo trying us on television, or something like that...and that was the only way we could be assured that...uh...that wouldn't happen. We should keep a running thread of lies and contradictions...It could fill a book! Edited to correct html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "CG...I really think what J&P mean..." Posted by Dunvegan on 02:07:32 3/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 02:07:32, 3/26/2001 ...by taking TV out of their house is that that Burke was shielded from all televised or printed discussion of John and Patsy's guilt in the media...as best as they could limit it. Of course, the Ramz had a TV...radio...all the assorted rags and mags.... The Ramz even had their very own Internet fourm flunkie spewing invective and squid ink all over the Internet... But...I still wonder if the reason that little laptop was "swiped" from the Paces Ferry NON-mansion, was that Burke finally jerry-rigged some connectivity to the Internet, and John wanted to explore Burke's browser cache or e-mail for clues to what he knew...or what he was learning. Have the Ramseys said anywhere just WHO that "stolen" laptop belonged to? Didn't Nedra once say that the Ramseys had bought Burke a "state-of-the-art" laptop? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Take A Bow Dunvy ..." Posted by Mandarin on 14:49:31 3/25/2001 I don't know how you had the strenght to transcribe the Ramseys ramblings. It must have been strange having to listen to their voices while transcribing. What a monumental task! Now John's parroting Patsy's false claims that Jonbenet took violin, French and rock climbing??? And poor Burke, only choosing to be in the background of his school media play (where he, incidentally lived most of his life BTW). I almost spit my juice on the the screen when John said his biggest fear was that "Jonbenet was going to run off to Hollywood" - in your dreams Ramsey! Now I think I'll go to the washroom and throw up. Thanks again Dunvy. Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "I cannnot get over ..." Posted by Mandarin on 15:00:06 3/25/2001 The amount of celebrities John mentioned in this adnewseum .... . Ricky Nelson . John Lennon . JFK and JFK Jr. . Caroline Kennedy . Princess Diana . OJ Simpson there were a lot of others, but my mind is still buzzing from all their idle chatter. Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "hey, Mandarin" Posted by Edie Pratt on 15:07:05 3/25/2001 notice there's NO mention of fellow "victims" like the Moxley's, the Williams, Marc Klaas, etc? They have yet to commiserate with people in their same "boat", and I find that strange. You'd think they'd reach out to those who share their same kind of loss, people that would understand what it means to lose a loved one. What's a matter? The Sund's not glamourous enough? Yup, keep talking, you miserable excuses... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Ha ha ha, DUN, thank YOU!" Posted by janphi on 15:06:33 3/25/2001 You did all the work! I just wanted you to know it was appreciated by me! Couldn't help myself with the remarks. Might finish Part III, might not. I know you're sick of listening to them! That was one of Patsy's most slurred spectacles, as I recall from the first time I listened to it. Their lies are just incredible. Thanks for all your hard work. Being a GRITS myself, rolling in them will be doubly fun. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "who is..." Posted by Texan on 19:03:04 3/25/2001 The detective they hired that has worked on 300 murder cases? Lou Smit? If JR is talking about him, I thought he wasn't getting paid. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Urge to purge" Posted by Anton on 21:33:04 3/25/2001 I do believe Patsy needs to have an oral enema. PATSY RAMSEY: One of the DAs, who was on the case when Lou Smit was there...told us, "If we had had..." and I can't remember whether he said, "two more weeks" or "two more months"...He said, "We were ALMOST there." He said, "We were so close, I could TASTE it." I'm not kidding you! MODERATOR: Hmmm. PATSY RAMSEY: He said this. And then, you know, Romer steps in...yanks the rug out...takes everybody off, and puts in three Special Prosecutors. He said, "We were CLOSE!" I mean, he said, "I could TASTE it!" How close is that? Oh really? Governor Romer relieved Hunter, et al, of their prosecutorial duties and empowered "three special prosecutors"? I'll hold the bag if someone wants to hold Patsy. "We were ALMOST there. We were so close, I could TASTE it." That sounds like Maxwell Smart, doesn't it? "Missed by THAT much." Time for Maxwell to take off his shoe and call the nut squad for this woman. Anton [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "....yep" Posted by jonesy on 21:16:04 3/25/2001 .he is the det. that delegated his cases and then took the credit when the other det. solved the case - they were glad when he left !! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Hey, Edie! " Posted by Dunvegan on 04:41:37 3/26/2001 REAL difficult to see why "Jackie/Patsy" there isn't rushing to speak to, or about, Mrs. Moxley...compare her loss to that crime, talk about the Moxleys and she being in the same boat.... ...I mean...how much closer could Patz get to the "real Kennedys?" Oh. Yeah. I suppose that the possibility of Mrs. Moxley seeing right through Patsy has made that "not an option." Not to mention the Ramseys not wanting to get anywhere near that close to anything Mark Furman is investigating.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Mrs. Moxley" Posted by v_p on 06:34:04 3/26/2001 I've seen her on several shows and many interviews. I don't believe I've ever seen her smile a lot, much less get all giddy and giggle over her own insipid remarks. Why are they going to the NE to say they'd made a mistake in their earlier interviews about Burke. I mean, honestly, it makes no sense to feel an obligation to tell the world this 'truth.' Why didn't they put it in their book? They knew Burke had been awake then. I hope and pray they sue Steve Thomas. We already know the idiot representing the Ramseys can't control them. I think Steve will be well represented if it ever happens. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Have you ever" Posted by momo on 07:49:03 3/26/2001 seen or heard two more bumbling, fumbling idiots than these two? I listened to this several months ago when they still had it up. It sure is much more obvious what liars they are when reading the transcripts of the interview. Thanks again, Dunvegan. I hope your ears are feeling better. :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Here's what I don't get - " Posted by gaiabetsy on 07:57:45 3/26/2001 if you're the Rams, how many interviews and tapes do you have to review to convince yourself it's time to stop talking? These two slay me. Why don't they just shut up? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Dunvegan, you poor thing!" Posted by Cassandra on 09:29:39 3/26/2001 Thanks for the posting. I think, as you must agree, after all your work, that Ramsey interviews should be called "Ramsey Ad Nauseum". Seriously. I know they make ME want to barf! Dunvegan, you deserve a medal. Thanks. Cassie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Dunvegan" Posted by Mini on 13:15:38 3/26/2001 When John says, "...hundreds of millions of people have heard that we are evil people, that killed our pa-...killed our child," does that "pa" sound like "pay" or "pah"? Do you have a clue as to what he started to say? Also, does anyone know if there really are 18,000 police jurisdictions in the country or whether that was a number he just pulled out of the air? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Edie ..." Posted by Mandarin on 13:42:37 3/26/2001 Like you, I often wonder why the Rams never mention REAL victims like Mrs. Moxley and there are sooooo many others. They never give them a passing glance and that stands out as remarkable to me. You see, they're not savvy at all. The both of them are truly immature and the adnewseum proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they truly do have overblown egos. You know, the lights are on, but nobody's home, sort of thing. They are 100% (Johnism) pure narcissists and I get the sense that an audience is what they seek each and every day of their lives to make up for their dwindling bank account. But someone should tell them that you CANNOT fill a bottomless pit. I guess as long as they keep talking, they don't really have to stop and think about who they really are, if they ever knew that at all. Imagine living in a house with these two for a full 24 hours? Know that would be an authentic 'survivor' challenge. What would be interesting is to see how they react with Burke. Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "SO Close they could taste it?" Posted by Sabrina on 14:02:06 3/26/2001 PATSY RAMSEY: One of the DAs, who was on the case when Lou Smit was there...told us, "If we had had..." and I can't remember whether he said, "two more weeks" or "two more months"...He said, "We were ALMOST there." He said, "We were so close, I could TASTE it." I'm not kidding you! MODERATOR: Hmmm. PATSY RAMSEY: He said this. And then, you know, Romer steps in...yanks the rug out...takes everybody off, and puts in three Special Prosecutors. He said, "We were CLOSE!" I mean, he said, "I could TASTE it!" How close is that? I remember the wierdness of this when I first heard this audio. What do you suppose she was talking about? That they were 2 weeks or months short of indicting a perp and Romer pulled the rug out? I personally think they were that close to indicting the Rams and Hunter pulled the rug out. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Mini...good question..." Posted by Dunvegan on 14:23:52 3/26/2001 I tried real hard to discern what John "nearly" said on the Newseum interview tape... "...you know, for three years...hundreds of millions of people have heard that we were evil people, that killed our pa-...killed our child. That was odd. John drew up short even more abruptly on that one than his usual mumble-mouth backtracking: "...that killed our pa-...killed our child." It started to sound like he was going to say..."Pa-rent"...or, maybe even "Pa-tsy." Hmmmm...I hope that John wasn't about to slip and say, "...killed our Patsy...." John's obsession (during the Newseum intervie) with the audience of "hundreds of millions" of readers and headline scanners, I think drove him to call in the tabloids. And, it backfired. Big time. Because it also gave Patsy the very same audience, at the very same time. And, surprise John (!), she broke ranks. Patsy turned out to have her own agenda. Maybe that's what caused John to suddenly look so, "weary." Or, should that have been, "wary." Perhaps the little "break-in drama" woke Patsy up to how far John is willing to go. I'll speculate that due to the state of her unmade up face during the post-robbery press conference...Patsy had no advance information the break-in was going to happen. Whether or not John was really robbed? That's up for speculation...but Patsy probably had no idea. The clue: make-up was so important to her that she had the full-face on at 6 a.m. on the murder morning. She would have had it on the day of the break-in if she knew a press conference was part of the day's schedule (after all, she was out at lunch...that's a perfect excuse for looking her best...and Nedra said: "Never leave the house with out your make-up on!") Perhaps Patsy sees that the "robbery" looks hinky as heck. Maybe she knows that the tied-up door, and the moved Grandfather clock don't make sense. After all...she lives at Paces Ferry. She knows what's likely and what's not. And, she could examine at lesiure the "scene of the robbery." Perhaps she's beginning to see this break-in as a prelude to...perhaps....an "accidental shooting"...what with this newly hightened fear of an "intruder" John can now claim. Didn't John say to the press that the "intruder" got into his gun vault? Let's see: If Patsy is shot and killed...John would have two available defenses: 1 - John shot and killed her out of his "real" fear that she was an armed, murderous intruder...she surprised him...it was a mistake...an accident. 2 - The "intruder" came back and killed Patsy...with one of John's "stolen" guns. Dear Patsy: I suggest you "get thee to a nunnery"...before John "gets he to a gunnery." Do not walk...RUN...to the Atlanta Police Department* and tell ALL. Now. While you still can. * And...don't forget to use your one phone call to call the Enquirer...they'll get you the best lawyers in the world, AND give you a million dollars to boot, just for the exclusive. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Sabrina" Posted by momo on 14:36:45 3/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:36:45, 3/26/2001 Patsy may have worn make-up that morning. Remember, mama said not to ever leave the house without make-up. She probably washed it all away with the tears she shed at the prayer lunch claiming her innocence. :-) Edited to say that this post was supposed to be addressed to Dunvegan. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Dunvegan" Posted by ayelean on 15:33:24 3/26/2001 Again, mucho grats! I thought John may have had a brain fart when he said the pa... I think they have been use to saying/hearing 'parents guilty', but his sentence was talking about who the parents are guilty of killing, eg JB. I continually find John's sentence structure reversed and I don't think he is any where as swift as he has been perceived. John was a failure so to speak before Don Paugh got him under control. It is almost as if Don Paugh found a piece of clay or a puppet he could infuse himself into and live vicariously thru John. Now that Don doesn't have his hand up John's @$$ moving his mouth for him, we are just see the stupid John. John is sorta like Pinnochio without his creator, (I can't spell his name LOL) John left to his own descretion is back to just a block of wood. About relating to Mrs. Moxly, it is the subconscious of the Ramseys. They only relate to the people who are guilty of the crime, because they are guilty of the crime. They don't see themselves as the Klaases, or the Walshes, they see themselves as Susan Smith and OJ. They can't identify with innocence. The bad thing is though, now that they read it here they will try to convert. Ellique and Stonegate should be coming out of the woodwork with these threads, LOL. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "DUNVEGAN!!!" Posted by janphi on 18:21:45 3/26/2001 Sorry for yelling, but I found another "something" and hope you can check it out. In Part 2: John: ...You know, Patsy and I...it's not a issue to us as to how people feel... Did he REALLY say "a issue"? Wanna make sure it's not a typo. You know why: "...and hence a earlier delivery pick-up of your daughter." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "yeah, Ayelean" Posted by Edie Pratt on 17:12:12 3/26/2001 Marc Klaas embraces victims of these crimes, as does John Walsh. I imagine for the R's to get within a 10 mile radius of either mentioned, would be something akin to vampires at a garlic festival. Somebody (LKL?) needs to host a little powwow with the Ramsey's and other victims and see what happens then:-)compare notes and all... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Ayelean ..." Posted by Mandarin on 15:44:34 3/26/2001 What's even stranger, perhaps the strangest omission the Rams make is NEVER, EVER mentioning the Aisenberg's, who to me used the Ram's MO for their own crime. Good points Ayelean (as usual). Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Marc Klaas..." Posted by Dunvegan on 17:19:24 3/26/2001 ...ate the Aisenbergs on toast on LKL. One thing Marc will not suffer is a liar...if that liar is anyone who hurts children. Marc Klaas has some of the finest possible radar when it comes to lying child-killers. Marc and Steve did a very good number on the Aisenbergs on LKL. I doubt VERY MUCH you'll see Marc in the Ramseys' corner in this fight. Sic 'em, Steve. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "re Burke" Posted by Bets on 17:56:07 3/26/2001 In August of 1990 (date ring a bell?) I delivered my third child - a stillborn son. My other two children were 8 and 5, old enough to understand what had happened and to grieve in their own ways. My daughter was open in her hurt. She asked lots of questions and cried a lot about losing her baby brother. It was tough but we were able to work with her because of her honesty in expressing her emotions. Not so with my son. He got very quiet and didn't want to discuss anything about the baby's death. But, what we noticed was the beginning of these fits of anger over the least tiny provocation. A few days after our baby's death, he came in ranting about something the neighbor boy had done to him. His anger was way over the top and then he began to just sob about the incident. When I gently asked him if maybe part of the reason he was crying might be related to being sad about his brother, he screamed at me and slammed the door to his room so hard pictures in the hallway clattered to the floor. It became apparent we weren't going to be able to get through our child's protective shell so we arranged for him to see a Christian counselor. Sure enough, it took about two sessions for her to identify three areas of concern. First, my child blamed himself for his brother's death. During the pregnancy, hubby would say things like, "we all have to help Mommy so we can have a healthy baby". And when that healthy baby didn't come, my son believed he hadn't helped enough or had done something wrong and thereby contributed to the death of his brother. Then, when the guilt got too crushing, he blamed the death on me. With this pregnancy I'd had a lot of "evening sickness". Mornings were fine but by the dinner hour, I was nauseated and unable to eat more than crackers, if that. So, my son reasoned that I had starved the baby to death. Two pretty crushing concerns but they pale in comparison to the last one. Somehow my eight year old child got it into his head that because death had issued from my body, I might still have some of that death inside me. So, there he was, secretly terrified that his mom was going to die too. As you might imagine, it took lots and lots of talks before hubby and I, with the help of our son's counselor, could work him through the tremendous pain and loss he felt. It's hard to even think back on that time and the sorrowful little boy we were dealing with - it hurts me even now to think about it. Why am I telling you all this? Because I think about Burke. A child who lost his sister in such a brutal and terrifying way. If having a stillborn brother could hurt my son so deeply, imagine what it must have been like for Burke!! To have loved his sister for 6 years and then to have her gone in such a terrible, horrible manner. If ever there was a boy who needed to talk things out, I'd say it was this child. And yet, Patsy says they have never discussed JonBenet's death. I find that amazing. My heart aches for Burke, having to hold all that pain and confusion inside for over four years. It seems incredibly irresponsibible of John and Patsy not to have ever even broached the subject of JonBenet's murder with her only brother. Even if he's getting professional help, he still needs his own parents to work with him and talk things through until he can gain some sort of sense of peace about his sister's death. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "Dear Bets" Posted by Edie Pratt on 18:29:50 3/26/2001 wow, I am so sorry. Your post really brought some things into focus. I sometime forget that Burke was so little, and I'm sometimes callous in thinking he "got on with his life". Bless your heart, Bets. I wish Burke had you for a mom, or someone like you. Hope you've had wayyyy more joy than pain, since then:-)EP [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "All Patsy can say ..." Posted by Mandarin on 23:30:31 3/26/2001 All Patsy can say (actually said) in the adneuseum posted by Dunvy that when Burke told her in wanted to be in a school play recently, she IMMEDIATELY though "LEAD ROLE" and much to her chagrin he related that he wanted to be part of the sound crew - you know behind the scenes, in the dark (where his role obviously is/was in the Ram family then and now). Why can't she never just accept her children for what they are, instead of always wanting them "stage front and center". You can bet, he was well aware of her disappointment, if her story is true. She hasn't got a clue about children's feelings, no matter what age they are. In her books, you are either the "spotlight" for the family or you are nothing at all. Burke knows his place in that family and IMHO I think he always knew. Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Bets & ayelean" Posted by Anton on 00:16:44 3/27/2001 Bets -- bless you for sharing this with us. We all need to realize how pain and loss affects people. Your post is very revealing of how children react to loss. Your son's reaction and hidden reasoning sounds very familiar, so similar to my own childhood experience (to different trauma). I too wonder about Burke. Virtually every story I've heard about him post-murder says that he's a happy, "normal" kid. That makes no sense to me. Maybe he's well-trained, one way or another, to always be "on stage" in public. But as you said, he surely has some outlet for his emotions. One way, I imagine, is through video games. If he's lucky, he has someone to talk to, unknown to his parents. ayelean -- That's an interesting observation about Don Paugh using John as a puppet. That seems to run in the family, doesn't it? Apparently, Nedra lived vicariously through her daughters by putting them on stage. Don lived vicariously through his son-in-law by putting him on the corporate stage (a place for which John never displayed any talent). Patsy lived through JonBenet, much as Nedra did through Patsy. Seems that the Ramseys don't live their own lives. That might explain why they continuously put themselves out for the public. Anton [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]