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WestWord Part 3, Chris, 19:31:23, 3/30/2000 Niece...., rose, 19:47:54, 3/30/2000, (#1) Thank you, Chris, Seashell, 19:50:03, 3/30/2000, (#2) gramps, pat, 20:19:05, 3/30/2000, (#3) More Insight?, Chris, 20:51:38, 3/30/2000, (#4) Chris . . ., Allegra, 21:15:46, 3/30/2000, (#5) Allegra, Chris, 21:40:18, 3/30/2000, (#7) Chris . . ., Allegra, 22:42:35, 3/30/2000, (#12) Dear Chris, Msracoon, 21:26:51, 3/30/2000, (#6) Chris, pip, 21:49:23, 3/30/2000, (#8) Mame did the right thing, SJ, 22:04:20, 3/30/2000, (#9) I would.., MsPlum, 09:50:30, 3/31/2000, (#26) Ah, so she is under doctors' c..., Fra, 22:42:20, 3/30/2000, (#11) Fra..., MsPlum, 09:59:21, 3/31/2000, (#27) One more thing, SJ, 22:29:57, 3/30/2000, (#10) Right SJ . . ., Allegra, 23:04:01, 3/30/2000, (#14) I dont pretend..., Luvsbeagles, 22:46:02, 3/30/2000, (#13) I'm amazed, dustii, 00:25:44, 3/31/2000, (#18) Dustii.., MsPlum, 09:48:53, 3/31/2000, (#25) I'm amazed, dustii, 00:21:30, 3/31/2000, (#16) Dusti, pip, 00:25:36, 3/31/2000, (#17) Allegra, One more try?, Chris, 05:08:49, 3/31/2000, (#19) Chris , , , , Allegra, 09:35:35, 3/31/2000, (#22) OFF WITH HER HEAD!!!, sotto voce, 21:39:49, 4/01/2000, (#53) Soto voce . . ., Allegra, 04:39:15, 4/02/2000, (#64) Ahem, Watching you, 07:25:30, 3/31/2000, (#20) Fra, Ruthee, 09:32:51, 3/31/2000, (#21) well, pat, 09:43:18, 3/31/2000, (#24) Amen, Watching you, 09:39:28, 3/31/2000, (#23) Skeptics, Zandra, 10:10:34, 3/31/2000, (#29) My goodness, WY!, darby, 10:02:48, 3/31/2000, (#28) Heh, Darby, Watching you, 10:13:20, 3/31/2000, (#30) Truce, WY, darby, 11:04:34, 3/31/2000, (#32) Opinions are personal things,, Cassandra, 10:53:20, 3/31/2000, (#31) Thanks, Chris..., shadow, 11:10:13, 3/31/2000, (#33) Back to the article itself., Starling, 11:43:34, 3/31/2000, (#34) Starling,, doc, 20:16:45, 3/31/2000, (#44) Agreed, Starling, darby, 11:57:27, 3/31/2000, (#35) Darby, Hyacinth, 12:48:47, 3/31/2000, (#36) the last, pat, 14:05:17, 3/31/2000, (#37) Pat, Chris, 14:17:47, 3/31/2000, (#39) not sure what the relevance is, Edie Pratt, 14:12:58, 3/31/2000, (#38) I know the landscape..., Fra, 15:28:46, 3/31/2000, (#40) Fra, Where do you get off with..., SJ, 22:38:03, 3/31/2000, (#47) Fra,, doc, 20:25:03, 3/31/2000, (#45) Fra do not, MsPlum, 16:15:53, 3/31/2000, (#43) Fra, mame, 15:57:54, 3/31/2000, (#42) Fra,, LurkerXIV, 15:56:09, 3/31/2000, (#41) fra, Gemini, 21:59:25, 3/31/2000, (#46) Fra, tinky, 23:03:49, 3/31/2000, (#48) Mame, Chris, Ms Plum, mary99, 23:48:00, 3/31/2000, (#49) FRA, nostradamus, 10:30:50, 4/01/2000, (#50) Well, Fra,, pip, 11:36:08, 4/01/2000, (#51) the compassionate, mame, 11:50:27, 4/01/2000, (#52) Thank You , Nostradamus, CynAnne, 21:58:35, 4/01/2000, (#54) CynAnne.., MsPlum, 22:13:14, 4/01/2000, (#55) Nostradamus,, SJ, 14:07:57, 4/02/2000, (#65) ms. plum, mame, 22:14:43, 4/01/2000, (#56) will do.., MsPlum, 22:26:29, 4/01/2000, (#57) CynAnn, nostradamus, 22:38:56, 4/01/2000, (#58) Muchos Gracias , Nostradamus, CynAnne, 22:58:08, 4/01/2000, (#60) Thank You Mary..(no message), MsPlum, 22:44:03, 4/01/2000, (#59) For the record, sotto voce, 01:31:09, 4/02/2000, (#61) Fra, dustii, 03:05:28, 4/02/2000, (#62) mame..., szundi, 04:05:54, 4/02/2000, (#63) sotto voce, mame, 14:39:38, 4/02/2000, (#66) monster, mame, 10:09:11, 4/03/2000, (#67) Can't We Just Get Along?, shadow, 10:52:51, 4/03/2000, (#68) I have to agree, Watching you, 10:57:05, 4/03/2000, (#69) Fra...&...Mame, Cassandra, 12:54:42, 4/03/2000, (#70) Right, shadow..., darby, 12:59:59, 4/03/2000, (#71) Watching You, mame, 13:15:04, 4/03/2000, (#72) Cassie, mame, 13:18:50, 4/03/2000, (#73) ................................................................... "WestWord Part 3" Posted by Chris on 19:31:23 3/30/2000 Carry on... [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Niece...." Posted by rose on 19:47:54 3/30/2000 Am I dreaming or did one of the articles state that one of the men at the Whites Christmas party had a small child with him? That this same man was now in Germany with this child? The MW article states she is worried about her niece being abused too. Is this the same child that is spoken of as being a guest at the Whites? To me that is the only thing that has been alledged that connects to the Jonbenet case. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Thank you, Chris" Posted by Seashell on 19:50:03 3/30/2000 Thread 11 was a bit hot. Now I have t0 run back to long thread one to see if anyone answered my posts. Was it you, mee too, that needed some posts brought over from thread one? Thread too was not a case discussion. Let me know if I can help. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "gramps" Posted by pat on 20:19:05 3/30/2000 was grandpa paugh at the party on the 23rd? And was fleet senior or junior buds with grandpa paugh? And does anyone know who the children at fleet's parties were? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "More Insight?" Posted by Chris on 20:55:18 3/30/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 20:55:18, 3/30/2000 As many of you know, mame and I have become quite good friends. Mame was kind enough to open her home to me when I went to Colorado to visit with Wanda for the last time. It has gotten to the point where Mame and I often burn up the phone wires as well as the Internet wires. So, maybe my version of things is skewed by friendship. I hope it's not. I have asked mame's permission to share my perspective and some truths with you...if you don't care to "hear" it - scroll on by. Try to imagine what it might feel like to leave everything behind. The good as well as the bad. To take such a major step in your life that you know you can never, ever go back. I did something like that once during my life, maybe that's why I'm able to have empathy for The Witness. Think about leaving your job, your friends, your "support system" and heading out for parts unknown. You don't know where you'll be tomorrow, you just hope it's not six feet under. You arrive in a strange town with only the clothes on your back and a few dollars in your pocket. The places you should be safe (safe houses, etc.) turn you away. As a result, you are, in effect, put into solitary confinement. There is no choice but to stick you in a hotel room...alone. In a strange place where you barely know anyone. The person you have placed your trust in shares your story with someone he sees as compassionate and caring. Her first reaction isn't "wow, what a scoop, what a story" but rather a woman who is kind and loving and giving, her first reaction is, what can I do to help? A woman who was taught not to drive by that wreck on the highway pretending it didn't happen or that someone else would come along and pick up the pieces. When faced with a fellow human being whose alternative was to be put back into solitary confinement for committing no crime, what would you do? We're talking about a human being here. Flesh and blood, a heart, a brain, emotions. She's not just a label, she's a real person. I'd like to think that every one of us here would have opened our home to The Witness, whether she's connected to JonBenet or not. Fast forward two weeks. Two weeks of utter chaos. Everyone is hoping for safety. There are children involved. The Witness is ill and must be taken, unseen, to doctors, to hospitals. She needs tests and medication. Calls are being made left and right, searches on the Internet, brainstorming, etc. to try to find resources to help assure the safety of The Witness. Everyone knew going in that she wouldn't be able to stay with mame for long. Two weeks of chaos. Is it any wonder that mame completely and innocently forgot to appear in dog court? Some things in life are more important than dog court. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Chris . . ." Posted by Allegra on 21:15:46 3/30/2000 When I wrote my post I expected that Mame's friends would come forward and express their opinions of both her character and the situation, as well they should. You have done so eloquently. I would like to point out that my observations were not only fueled by the fact this situation could be viewed in another light but by the fact Mame did not contradict any misconceptions in the article. My point is, if the situation was that Mame forgot dog court and was arrested and this arrest had nothing to do with the MW situation then why hasn't she said so. Instead it appeared in the article to lend substantion to MW. They seem to want it both ways and I wonder why. If she forgot the court date and neither she or Lee Hill knew this unrelated event was coming then why even mention it to the person doing the interview? IMO they can't have this both ways. Either they are using an unrelated event for spin or someone knew it was coming and orchestrated this. Allegra [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Allegra" Posted by Chris on 21:40:18 3/30/2000 I don't know if it's clear from the article or not but I suspect that the writer of the article included that information about mame's arrest because he was doing his interview in mame's home when it happened. He watched the situation unfold in real life. Also, Lee Hill was not mame's attorney for the Baker vs. the Barker prior to that day. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Chris . . ." Posted by Allegra on 22:42:35 3/30/2000 I hope that's the case. I know Mame is busy and perhaps there is a report or something on the way that I don't know about. I do know that I would be yelling loud and long about its being included and setting the record straight. Perhaps she will. Allegra [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Dear Chris" Posted by Msracoon on 21:26:51 3/30/2000 Thank you for that post. It was wonderfully written and full of Love. Love, Ms.Rac. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Chris" Posted by pip on 21:49:23 3/30/2000 Well said [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Mame did the right thing" Posted by SJ on 22:04:20 3/30/2000 by taking in a woman in serious distress who needed safe shelter. I would have done the same, regardless of a Rams connection or not. Too bad that the MW can't be kept in other JW "safe houses" around the country to protect her until all this is settled. No woman should have to go through what she has and then have to "defend" it besides! She is a victim and a survivor and is putting her own life on the line. With such a serious situation, somehow a dog barking offense/hearing is insignificant. As for Mame not stating specifically that she knows for sure the arrest and the MW situation are connected, what is she supposed to say? Common sense dictates a connection. Prior to the MW, the majority of JW posters thought she was being harrassed. I find it difficult to believe anything else. I don't know Mame personally, like you do Chris. But I certainly trust her dedication to this case and I believe she is a person with a very good heart. She did a very good thing, and a brave thing as well. She has made herself a target. I applaud her courage. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "I would.." Posted by MsPlum on 09:50:30 3/31/2000 do just as Mame has done. I have many times in the past and would do it again if the need arised. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Ah, so she is under doctors' c..." Posted by Fra on 22:53:55 3/30/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:53:55, 3/30/2000 MW doesn't get my vote for "ideal house guest" -- abdominal bleeding and multiple venereal diseases. After attending to that Westword article for 30 minutes, I had but a single question -- Crikey... has anyone gotten MW help for those sexually transmitted diseases? Mame is kind-hearted. I could never get involved in a mess like this. . Edited to add: So you in the thread above me -- don't go sending her to my house! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Fra..." Posted by MsPlum on 09:59:21 3/31/2000 I only hope that one day you don't find yourself in need of a caring hand... What goes around comes around... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "One more thing" Posted by SJ on 22:29:57 3/30/2000 I posted here before I even read the second thread of this series. What jumps out at me is that Mame wasn't harrassed because the cops knew MW was at her house. She was harrassed because of her involvement in reporting of this case all along. It is that simple. No one in their right mind would try and shelter someone for safety in order to have it all blown by the cops finding it out on purpose. The MW's life is in danger, according to a very competent and reliable attorney. If he did anything to compromise his clients safety, he'd lose his ticket to practice law! Whether you buy MW's story, or its connection to the Ramsey case is not the issue here. The bottom line here is whether Mame or Lee Hill would deliberately further endanger someone who's life is believed to be in jeopardy for any reason? I don't think so. The thought alone is ludicrous. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Right SJ . . ." Posted by Allegra on 23:04:01 3/30/2000 It doesn't add up. Hill picks Mame's house because the police do NOT know of her involvement with MW. However, as to Mame being harassed because she is reporting this case, I fail to see why. Her interviews with BJ have exposed Hunter, case politics and the incestous connections in the case. All things the police have struggled under for years. The only interview she ever did that I remember shed a bad light on the BPD was when Phillips did a little ranting at the very end of a long interview about her boyfriend's arrest. I find it hard to believe that prompted this. It was disjointed and practically impossible to follow any sort of chain of events. I can hardly imagine the Boulder police were even aware of Mame's day in doggie court until she didn't appear in court and the inevitable warrant was issued. The police have always seemed to want this case covered. They have sure leaked to reporters often enough. Allegra [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "I dont pretend..." Posted by Luvsbeagles on 22:46:02 3/30/2000 to know if MW is truthful or not...and if she is truthful whether or not it has anything to do with the Ramseys, and although I dont know Mame she certainly seems like a nice lady who was sincerely trying to help someone...which is why I am going to say this...remember that you've got kids! As a mom I am sitting here worried to death that Mame has/had a person in her home that either is being pursued by people who are out to get her, and most likely anyone who is trying to help her....OR she has a person in her home that is mentally ill, and who knows where that could lead! Let me tell you...as a counselor I was in all kinds of scary situations myself, but the first thing that I did after being hired was obtain an unlisted number and remove my children's pictures from my desk. (and they stayed removed). There are all sorts of wonderful clients in the world..and all sorts of crazy ones and you sometimes dont know who is who. Please Mame...keep on doing what you do, but be careful for you and your family. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "I'm amazed" Posted by dustii on 00:25:44 3/31/2000 I'm sorry, but the lack of compassion and understanding of some people is way beyond my comprehension. I guess it takes all kinds of people to make up the world. I know which ones I want in my corner. I have had many occasions to seek the help of counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists, doctors etc. Thankfully I have never come across one that didn't believe what I had to say. How devestating that would have been in the healing process. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL dustii ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Dustii.." Posted by MsPlum on 09:48:53 3/31/2000 I agree with you. I am saddened to see that there are some very cold hearted folks here at JW. But it is a true representation of society as a whole. Humans are selfish beings. Ms. Plum [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "I'm amazed" Posted by dustii on 00:21:30 3/31/2000 I'm sorry, but the lack of compassion of some people is way beyond my comprehension. I guess it takes all kinds of people to make up the world. I know which ones I would want in my corner! I have had many occasions to see counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists, doctors, etc. Thankfully I have Never come across anyone who didn't believe what I had to say. How devestating that would have been to healing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL dustii ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Dusti" Posted by pip on 00:25:36 3/31/2000 I know exactly what you mean. My heart goes out to MW - I hope she finds peace sometime soon. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Allegra, One more try?" Posted by Chris on 05:08:49 3/31/2000 Perhaps you weren't around when these events unfolded because I remember, very vividly, the sequence of events. Add what was already common knowledge to the information I supplied and you have this: When mame discovered the situation The Witness was in she stepped up to the plate and offered to help. Nearly two weeks later mame recorded an audio with B.J. that further exposed the incompetence of the BPD, included copies of the 'threats' to The Witness' therapist AND taped an interview with MW herself. Hours...not days, but hours! later, Mame was arrested, outside her home for failing to appear in dog court. There are threads in the archives that back up the whole sequence of events if you take the time to review them. Fra, I can only hope you were joking. I think the statistics are that one in five people has some sort of sexually transmitted disease. When you go to a party with 50 people...well, you can do the stats. Just because The Witness is no John F. Kennedy, Jr. she certainly is no leper and doesn't deserve to be treated as one. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Chris , , , " Posted by Allegra on 09:58:45 3/31/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 09:58:45, 3/31/2000 >Perhaps you weren't around when these events >unfolded because I remember, very vividly, >the sequence of events. Add what >was already common knowledge to the >information I supplied and you have >this: I was around, even when I don't post I read almost daily. I too remember this sequence of events. >When mame discovered the situation The Witness >was in she stepped up to >the plate and offered to help. This became known to me when I read the Westword article and found out she had stayed with Mame. You provided the time frame in your post. >Nearly two weeks later mame recorded an >audio with B.J. that further exposed >the incompetence of the BPD, included >copies of the 'threats' to The >Witness' therapist AND taped an interview >with MW herself. I listened to it. You believe the BPD regarded this as a bombshell, I don't. I am sure that the police anticipated Lee Hill would go to the press and after their meeting with MW they had a good idea of what to expect. If he hadn't talked to Mame and BJ it would have been someone else. Lee Hill didn't get the results he wanted and they got to hear his version of events through the mouths of reporters. Predictable. >Hours...not days, but hours! later, Mame was >arrested, outside her home for failing >to appear in dog court. Yes. It seems that Boulder issues a warrant for anyone that does not appear for a scheduled court date. I fail to see how Mame's activities at the time have anything to do with her arrest. I do not believe in that many coincidences and reasoning processes gone awry in a few hours span. The only way I can agree with you that Mame was harassed is if I accept the following: 1) The police happen to be monitoring Mame's website right when the broadcast appears or they are constantly monitoring JW and see a message that the MW broadcast is up. This must have happened because the message went up without prior fanfare. 2)After the internet-monitoring detective finds the web-site he rallies the troops and they hang around the computer listening to the report, which as we know takes awhile. Then they pow-wow and are ready for some pay-back. In typical Boulder police fashion their eye is off the ball and they now regard Mame and BJ as their antagonists and not Lee Hill. They run checks on the parties involved and track down Mame's doggie troubles. 3) They are able to find a judge more than happy to immediately issue a warrant for the dangerous offense of not appearing in dog court even though this isn't standard procedure. Or, fortitously the warrants are issued as standard procedure and Mame's just happens to be there in the enormous, ever growing pile of warrants for missed court dates that the police only act on when they want to harrass someone. 4. Consumed with the need for revenge they neglect to reason out that Mame will be back on the internet in a few hours to report their sinister deed. No one realizes they will be raising MW's authenticity quotient by harassing the internet-reporter who interviewed her. They are oblivious to the fact that Lee Hill will have a field day with this. It's worth shooting themselves in the foot just to know Mame wore the cuffs. 5. The clock is ticking and they have to find cops on duty who will never talk about how unusual it is to be approached by detectives to deliver a failure-to-appear warrant or how they were told to treat Mame as harshly as possible. The detectives have to trust them because this behavior could cost them their jobs. A detectives job BTW, that these street cops would be glad to fill. Or, I could just believe that Mame was arrested as standard operating procedure for not appearing in court. Mame has said here many times that she is on a search for truth. If I were in her shoes and my only proof that I had been harassed was that I didn't like the timing then no matter how upset I was I would do the right thing. I would not allow this bit of unprovable, unrelated trivia to appear in articles concerning MW. I would want MW to be judged solely on the merits of her own case and not on something I suspected might have occured. You take the last word, Chris. Allegra [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "OFF WITH HER HEAD!!!" Posted by sotto voce on 23:22:43 4/01/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 23:22:43, 4/01/2000 Fra, (edited) I have now finished reading this thread and note that you seem to have changed your tune from the point when I first typed this post or I over-reacted because I was shocked to see your humor at the expense of a tormented woman who apparently has been victimized her entire life by cruel and heartless people. I didn't find your humor funny then or now. You made the perfect target for me to vent the anger and frustration I feel for the monsters who perpetrated the crimes against MW as I imagine those criminals laugh and scoff at her too. Allegra, it would appear that I was mistaken about you and your intentions too. I thought by your post that you were being facetious and I do not believe it is fair to belittle Mame in any way whatsoever for having the courage of her convictions. By the same token, I do not believe it is fair for any one of you to seek to diminish MW's circumstances, much less sit in judgement of her. She has been raped emotionally and physically thus suffering a multitude of ailments and a mountain of sorrows for her entire life. The woman deserves our compassion. Nothing anyone says about the BPD could surprise me after this most recent incident where they jeopardized MW's safety in the beginning. They do appear to be more involved with arresting a mother ~ who is obviously a law abiding citizen ~ for failure to make a court appearance in Kangar-oops!-Doggie Court, than enforcing the law by keeping Boulderites safe. And how about a police department sending officers out on a warrant for Mame's arrest instead of informing her by mail (like every other city does)that there was a warrant out because of her failure to appear? Better the police should be out making drug busts than busting a wife/mother/writer who failed to show up for a glaringly insignificant court appearance. Would they not be fulfilling their job description by "patrolling" or going out to look for burglars, stop speeders, keep an eye on teenagers and college students playing pranks, busting drug users and sellers? How about helping the vagrants find shelter, citing tickets for the traffic wrecks and domestic violence issues? Or how about busting parole violators? How about 911 phone calls? Instead, they opt to go to the home of a law abiding housewife and arrest her for something so insignificant? I would compare that to chasing piss ants while elephants are galloping out the door. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "Soto voce . . ." Posted by Allegra on 04:39:15 4/02/2000 >Allegra, it would appear that I was >mistaken about you and your intentions >too.I thought by your >post that you were being facetious Of course my post seemed facetious. How could it not? For a person to believe the BPD arrested Mame as a matter of harassment you have to believe silly things. I pointed them out. >and I do not believe it >is fair to belittle Mame in >any way whatsoever for having the >courage of her convictions. Convictions are simply strong beliefs. This post was about Mame's beliefs causing her not to speak up when unproven and unrelated incidents show up in places where only truth about MW belongs. Allegra [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Ahem" Posted by Watching you on 07:25:30 3/31/2000 blast yer hide, Darby, sometimes you make me wanna go aaarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh. I'll tell you why in a minute. First, wow, did this thread take a nasty turn, or what? What is it, all I have to do it leave the building for two seconds and youse guys freak out? I would like to know just who is in any position to judge anyone else on this forum. My God, man, Chris has come out several times defending Mame, and I don't need to meet Mame to know she has integrity. But, even if Chris never said a word, and even if I hadn't been around long enough to figure out what kind of a person Mame is, it isn't up to me to decide Mame's motives for taking this poor woman in and trying to help her. All right, damn it, I guess this is going to be longer than I thought. People help other people. It's what God put us on this earth to do - love one another and help one another. If someone is in need, we should help. Sometimes we get burned doing it, but that's part of it. We learn valuable lessons along the way. I am a little surprised at the attacks, not only on Mame, but on others, too. RonS is in a profession where he has to ask (himself, if no one else) hard questions. He's seen more than most of us. It came across as an attack on Mame, and frankly, I didn't like it either. But, is it necessary to carry it on and on and on? I mean, bop - one person whips on his butt, then another, and another, and on and on. Enough already. Why does everyone think he has to get another lick in? If we can't learn to back off, things just escalate until major damage is done. Backing off to let tempers cool and better judgment prevail can prevent permanent distrust and rifts between posters. Personally, I don't know what to think about MW. But, I'm not about to go into orbit over it. Darby, you were wrong in your first post on thread 2. You named me, so I'm going to answer you now. If you think about it, you and I are not that far away in our thinking - you are saying IF, and I'm saying, SHOW ME. Same diff, really, because IF what she says if true and it has bearing on JBR case, then I agree with you, at least some of it. What I object to are all the assumptions - it might be true, and it might have bearing, and therefore this must be true, and this person must be.... But, I defy you, Darby, you show me any post I have ever made saying no one should talk about this. I have disagreed, have stated openly that one cannot base truth on prior assumptions, don't understand how any conclusions can be drawn with so little to go on. That in no way says no one should talk about it. And, your statement that you don't want someone saying, I told you so.... So, is that what this comes down to? Which side is right and who can say I told you so? If that is the case, God help us all. See, darby, with me, I couldn't care less who is right and who is wrong. I care about truth, I care about logical discussion and logical thinking, and I damn well care about you, and mame, and Chris, and RonS, and Fly, and Shadow and on and on. Frankly, my ego is practically non-existent - I'm too old for ego crap. I don't care who agrees with me and I sure as hell would never say to you or anyone else, in a serious manner, I told you so, because that's not what this is about. And, believe it or not, I wouldn't think that way, either - ha, ha, I'm right, and you're wrong. I'm not built that way, darby. So, if you really want to know what WY thinks, I think there are a lot of people who need to grow up. Have at it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Fra" Posted by Ruthee on 09:32:51 3/31/2000 I agree, I find it very distasteful to mix with the masses. I have come to the conclusion that I should wear left over plastic gloves from my hair dye when I go shopping. You never know where the cashier's hands have been. Howard Huges was right and on top of that he was rich. I really don't believe that Jane Doe is directly connected to Fleet White, but that has nothing to do with my compassion for any person who is without resources and ill. You name the disease, or medical problem, I don't care what it is. I have a suggestion for ya. I've seen clear plastic covers that can be custom made to cover expensive funiture. No one ever knows everything about their house guests. These things are a god-send. There is a man that I admire who made a statement a long long time ago. I try to remember it every day and do what I can. It goes something like this. That you do for the least of my brethern, you do for me. I think he's one of the good guys, so I try to help him out. Ruth [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "well" Posted by pat on 09:43:18 3/31/2000 std's are just that,,not anything to get in a lather about. And the heartbreaking thing about them is the judgements of others. About 50 to 60 percent of college age girls have HPV so as far as I am concerned, they are part of the risk of being on earth and alive and willing to take a risk. This woman didn't make that decision,,it was foisted on her and thank goodness she got treatment. Mame is merciful. Children of strong, courageous, merciful women are the better for it in every way. We all are. And we have an obligation not to hack them to pieces with little ideas and petty criticism. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Amen" Posted by Watching you on 09:39:28 3/31/2000 Ruthie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Skeptics" Posted by Zandra on 11:06:07 3/31/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:06:07, 3/31/2000 One can believe completely in the sincerity and personal heroism of Mame and Lee Hill and still have questions about Mystery Woman. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "My goodness, WY!" Posted by darby on 10:02:48 3/31/2000 I wasn't angry, but it sounds to me as if you are. All I'm saying is that it's okay to talk about the possibility of MW's story having a bearing on the case even if we don't have absolute proof yet. The story is already public, so we don't have to be terrified of slandering the White family just by discussing it. If you agree, then fine. And no, I don't want people saying, "I told you so" just because some of us talk about MW, but this isn't the whole thrust of what I was trying to say. I just wanted to make it clear that speculation doesn't equal absolute belief in a concept, and I don't want people pouncing on those of us who are currently considering that MW's claims might have a bearing on the case if it turns out that her experiences are unrelated. Again, the implications are currently public and have not been refuted. Watching you--I wasn't trying to put you or any of the people I mentioned down. For the record, I have great respect fly's opinions in particular, so for me to group you with fly should be considered a compliment. The MW's information has caused an unusual rift in this forum, and I'm not entirely clear on why this has happened! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Heh, Darby" Posted by Watching you on 10:13:20 3/31/2000 me, mad? Honey, I spark on a dime, blow off steam, and then I'm over it. I don't know how old you are, but you're probably young enough to be my daughter, or even my grandaughter. Well, my kids could tell you how fast I blow, but they know I never, ever stop loving them, even if I get upset with them from time to time. It's the same here, I may breathe fire like a dragon for about two minutes, then it's gone. No animousity, no hard feelings - I'm too much of a clown to stay mad. You are one of my very favorite posters, Darby. I just wanted to make sure you understand WY isn't out to win anything - I want the same thing you do, for the killer(s) to pay for what they did. Truce, girl. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Truce, WY" Posted by darby on 11:04:34 3/31/2000 To be perfectly honest, WY, I kind of, sort of, DO care what certain people think of me, including some of the people on this forum. My Achilles heel. But yeah, the truth is absolutely number one. BTW, I'm not all that young, and ESPECIALLY don't feel that way today. Just between you and me (and I mean it), today is my birthday. Back to case. :-) I have to say after reading the Westword article that I absolutely have the same dilemma as Maundy (on the first thread) about whether it would be better to BE Lee Hill or MARRY Lee Hill. In any event, I have to give MW credit for having some smarts herself in choosing him as her lawyer. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Opinions are personal things," Posted by Cassandra on 11:04:03 3/31/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:04:03, 3/31/2000 and, something we all have a right to. Fra is one of the nicest people ever to post on a forum, to which I belonged. We go way back. As I recall her post, she admired Mame for her courage but pointed out that she could not, and would not do the same. Peace. Cassie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Thanks, Chris..." Posted by shadow on 11:10:13 3/31/2000 for giving us "insight" into mame's situation and motivation. I, for one, have never questioned mame's integrity - and, indeed, have thanked her many times for her reporting and keeping us on the east coast informed as to what's happening in Colorado. Rightly or wrongly, I have gotten the feeling recently that I've been lumped in with a group of posters that is "attacking" MW and mame. I have never "attacked" HW or mame. I have, however, maintained that I will withhold judgement on FW Sr. & Jr. until all the evidence is in. The really strange thing is that many of the "clashes" over the MW situation are taking place among posters who "really, really like each other," and totally agree on everything else in the JBR case. The Horror Mountain people must be getting a chuckle... shadow [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "Back to the article itself." Posted by Starling on 11:43:34 3/31/2000 No matter what we still have questions lingering. Here's a few excerpts from various articles involving our MW. How it all ties together is a matter of interpretation. "The woman said she knows the Ramseys through the Fleet White family. She said the godfather to her mother is Fleet White Sr., 86, of California. Fleet White Jr. of Boulder and John Ramsey were close friends until the death of JonBenét." Has she met one or both Ramsey's at any time? "The woman quoted in the article, whom Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter believes possesses credible information regarding the JonBenét Ramsey case, has been interviewed by the Camera and by the Boulder Police Department. She decided to tell her story after viewing a recent newscast about John Ramsey, father of JonBenét, based on statements he made in a legal deposition on Oct. 20, 1998. The Daily Camera disclosed the content of that deposition in a news article published Feb. 6, 2000." John Ramsey definately lied under oath, in the Miles deposition. I tried unsuccessfully to get in my question at the live chat at ABC the other night about the noticable discrepancy - but the interviewer worded my question, so that it was too broad of a generalization to get any significance from. I'm wondering what MW honed in on from the Fox interview, especially since she knows the Ramsey's. "The woman came forward after hearing broadcast excerpts from a deposition John Ramsey gave in a civil case, Hill said." This implies she honed in on direct testimony John was giving. "She said she knows JonBenét's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, through the family of Fleet White, a former friend of the slain girl's father. She said her mother is the goddaughter of Fleet White's father." This implies she personally knows both Ramsey's. "The woman said she knew the Ramseys through the Fleet White family. She said the godfather to her mother is Fleet White Sr. Fleet White Jr. of Boulder and John Ramsey were close friends until the death of JonBenét. Police cleared Fleet White Jr. as a suspect in April 1997." Yet another ascertion she knows both Ramsey's. "Police are also investigating the woman's claim that one of her alleged childhood assailants traveled to Boulder with a small female child and attended the same Christmas party as 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey the night she died." This seems to be the strongest parallel, IMO. Starling [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Starling," Posted by doc on 20:16:45 3/31/2000 Excellent summarization. You get an A! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Agreed, Starling" Posted by darby on 11:57:27 3/31/2000 The last statement seems to be the most significant in this article. In fact, from reading this article alone, I don't think there is anything significant which tells us that the Whites are guilty of any wrongdoing. I suppose I've gleaned some of my thoughts that the Whites themselves are implicated from past articles and statements. I think that care was taken in this article NOT to say anything accusatory about any named party (such as the Whites). Stronger words were used regarding the person the MW knows who attended the Whites' party, perhaps because that person remains annonymous. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Darby" Posted by Hyacinth on 12:50:31 3/31/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:50:31, 3/31/2000 You wrote: The MW's information has caused an unusual rift in this forum, and I'm not entirely clear on why this has happened! Similar thing happened with the dog barking arrest thread --- [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "the last" Posted by pat on 14:05:17 3/31/2000 part about the little girl at the party is the most significant. The rest could be that old six degrees of separation. But I wonder what drew her attention about deposition. Was it taped? I am confused about this. And never saw a guest list for fleet white's party,,that has been very quiet unless I missed something. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Pat" Posted by Chris on 14:17:47 3/31/2000 It's my understanding that The Witness saw Lee Hill on Fox News. She spoke with her therapist who looked for information on the Internet. I would imagine that when they read the deposition (which was posted on the Internet by then) they probably noticed a particularly heavy focus on John Ramsey's relationship with Fleet White. Disclaimer: All of this is based on what I have read. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "not sure what the relevance is" Posted by Edie Pratt on 14:12:58 3/31/2000 but, why is JR so careful not to dis FW? What does FW have on JR? JR has so many choice words for all who oppose him, yet FW was just a victim of police headgames, and it's not his fault that he thinks the Ramsey's are guilty. Why so magnanimous toward the one person who by all accounts thinks JR DID IT? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]