Justice Watch Discussion Board [ JonBenét Ramsey Discussion ] [ Missing & Exploited Children and True Crimes ] [ Front Porch ] [ Work Out Room ] " More Intriguing Sleuth Stuff" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... More Intriguing Sleuth Stuff, sarah, 13:09:00, 4/17/2000 The California Connection, sarah, 13:12:28, 4/17/2000, (#1) didn't JR meet FW, Edie Pratt, 13:19:07, 4/17/2000, (#2) You recall correctly, EdieP, Holly, 22:00:36, 4/17/2000, (#8) More Stuff>>, sarah, 13:24:08, 4/17/2000, (#3) Mountain View, sabrina, 20:01:30, 4/17/2000, (#4) Sabrina, sarah, 21:30:53, 4/17/2000, (#5) Outstanding,, Holly, 21:57:56, 4/17/2000, (#7) Mountain View-- Researching CA Records, sabrina, 22:48:23, 4/17/2000, (#17) Sarah, et al., Msracoon, 21:32:37, 4/17/2000, (#6) More Bio on JR, Starling, 22:17:57, 4/17/2000, (#9) provokes great questions, SJ, 22:21:55, 4/17/2000, (#10) Holly..., rose, 22:22:47, 4/17/2000, (#11) rose., Holly, 22:59:14, 4/17/2000, (#19) Distribution Center, Msracoon, 22:29:15, 4/17/2000, (#12) Msracoon, Twinkle, 22:33:38, 4/17/2000, (#14) Msracoon, frankg, 22:32:38, 4/17/2000, (#13) Thanks Twinkle & Frank, Msracoon, 22:37:50, 4/17/2000, (#15) Hey y'all, Msracoon, 22:42:13, 4/17/2000, (#16) MsRac., Holly, 22:57:45, 4/17/2000, (#18) Sabrina., Holly, 23:01:00, 4/17/2000, (#20) Holly, Msracoon, 23:03:49, 4/17/2000, (#21) MsRac., Holly, 08:08:06, 4/18/2000, (#27) OCS Officer Candidate school, listener, 23:16:56, 4/17/2000, (#22) AG Warehouse/Menlo Park, Starling, 23:39:59, 4/17/2000, (#23) More Warehouses, Starling, 00:11:10, 4/18/2000, (#24) Trailing Edge., Holly, 08:13:06, 4/18/2000, (#29) Extraordinary work..., Dr. Who, 07:12:32, 4/18/2000, (#25) Amazing, mary99, 07:30:38, 4/18/2000, (#26) Boykin was born in California, SJ, 22:44:49, 4/18/2000, (#52) Another snippet From the depo, sarah, 08:10:40, 4/18/2000, (#28) Sarah, Chart, 13:17:39, 4/18/2000, (#31) Chart., Holly, 14:34:14, 4/18/2000, (#36) Holly, Chart, 15:01:33, 4/18/2000, (#39) Maybe FW moved to Boulder , lee2, 16:25:32, 4/18/2000, (#46) Holly..., rose, 12:56:18, 4/18/2000, (#30) It might, Holly, 16:13:37, 4/18/2000, (#43) Pretty weird stuff sarah and chart..., Dr. Who, 13:44:01, 4/18/2000, (#33) Dr. Who, Chart, 14:26:07, 4/18/2000, (#35) Peachtree Deacon?, Edie Pratt, 13:26:54, 4/18/2000, (#32) EP, a deacon..., Dr. Who, 13:52:55, 4/18/2000, (#34) Bennett Ramsey Group, Chris, 14:35:00, 4/18/2000, (#37) Wow, just think..., Dr. Who, 14:54:50, 4/18/2000, (#38) JR the Pilot, Denver, 15:05:49, 4/18/2000, (#40) the plane, Denver, 15:09:04, 4/18/2000, (#41) Interesting, lee2, 16:20:38, 4/18/2000, (#44) Sarah, Johns business in Amsterdam, seenal, 15:38:16, 4/18/2000, (#42) proceed with caution, stryker, 16:21:57, 4/18/2000, (#45) pooper scooper used to post>>>, ayelean, 17:17:31, 4/18/2000, (#47) ayelean, stryker, Chart, 20:35:15, 4/18/2000, (#49) chart, stryker, 21:27:06, 4/18/2000, (#50) Dr.Who, Edie Pratt, 17:25:59, 4/18/2000, (#48) Chart, Dianne E., 21:56:09, 4/18/2000, (#51) Dianne E., Chart, 23:29:11, 4/18/2000, (#53) Chart, Dianne E., 23:51:05, 4/18/2000, (#54) ................................................................... " More Intriguing Sleuth Stuff" Posted by sarah on 13:09:00 4/17/2000 I'm hoping you sleuths can help connect the dots. Two of these posts are vicariously placed on another thread. This will give them some order. About the deposition from Lee Hill: The deposition was for a civil case , and John was the plaintiff. BECAUSE of this, and because, according to John and his wife Patsy, his sole mission in life was/is to FIND the "killer" of his daughter., of course John would want to "outpour" (another of his words) as much information as possible, right? WRONG. John came represented to the hilt by THREE DIFFERENT law firms at this deposition. 1- John Craver- White and Steele 2- William Gray - Purvis, Gray, Schuetze and Gordon 3- Bryan Morgan - Haddon, Morgan and Foreman The Enquirer, a multi-million dollar corporation and also a plaintiff, came with one attorney. John was very tight-lipped during his deposition- offering little to nothing, often using the words "I don't remember" even for questions that were pretty broad-based. However it can be noted several times in the deposition, when Hill was basically 'chootin' the chit about seemingly unimportant trivia, John's recollection was crystal clear.... ______________________________________________________________________________________ We were told MW contacted Lee Hill AFTER the deposition, correct? Now that we know about MW, Hill's deposition, and what kind of information he was attempting to extract , seems to take on new meaning and significance You might want to go back and scan the deposition to get the flavor and flow of his questions. ______________________________________________________________________________________ It is also interesting to note that indeed, John did spend time in California. And there are two cities in California that Mr. Hill was able to extract from John, both are located on the California coast. More .. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "The California Connection" Posted by sarah on 13:12:28 4/17/2000 ... And the coastal connection------ California is a big state. Oddly enough, the cities and towns I am concerned about are all situated on California's west coast. The cities listed below are all along the coastal highway of California: : Listed north to south: Mountain View Los Osos San Luis Obesbo Port Huenme Newport Beach ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MW lived in Los Osos,: her therapist a short drive South to San Luis Obesbo. Fleet White lived in Newport Beach, the most southerly location. In between these cities, up the California coast, are situated the towns of Mountain View and Port Huenme. From the Deposition: . What type of work did you do with the Navy? A. I was in the civil engineer corps and went through OCS, officer candidate school. 16 A. At Newport. ____________________________________________________________________ 5 Q. After you completed OCS, where did you go next 6 for training in the Navy? 7 A. I went to Port Waneenee, California, which is the civil engineer corps school. ________________________________________________________________ LATER.... ...... 7 A. I went to work for a company called Vidar, 8 V-i-d-a-r. 20 Q. Where were they located? 21 A. Vidar? 22 Q. Yes, sir. 23 A. Mountain View, California. _____________________________________________________________ [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "didn't JR meet FW" Posted by Edie Pratt on 13:19:07 4/17/2000 thru Priscilla White? I read somewhere here, or PMPT, that PR met PW first, then introduced their husbands. Anyone else remember that? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "You recall correctly, EdieP" Posted by Holly on 22:00:36 4/17/2000 Supposedly PW and Mrs Garroter became friends first, when the Whites rented a house two doors away. Then, supposedly, they introduced their hubbies, who became best friends. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "More Stuff>>" Posted by sarah on 13:24:08 4/17/2000 Chronology connections from the deposition: For those of you starting to nod off..What I want to do with these threads is to give you an overall picture, because the depo. is long, tedious, and at first read one may tend to think it has little substance. All earlier caveats in place, here is SOME data painfully extracted by Lee Hill from John. I am trying to be as concise as possible, mainly because John would have us believe his life was so trite and b-o-r-i-n-g. I'll start with John's time at Michigan State: He leaves Michigan State and voluntarily joins the navy appx. 1966 He goes to OCS school at Newport -RI or Calif., I don't know. John goes to Port Hueneme - on the coast in California appx. 1966-67 From there he goes to Subic Bay in the Philippines ---appx. 2 years At some point later, John goes to Atlanta. From active duty, John worked at AT&T in Ohio - in the '70s He left AT&T and worked for a company called BCS. He was asked what BCS stood for, but John did not answer directly. He only said they (sold?) electronic equipment. He was a salesman for BCS, and connected with VIDAR at this point, according to John. The association with BCS lasted appx. 2- 3 years. He left BCS, began working with VIDAR, but he was home based in Atlanta. It was during this time, John started his own company, Access Graphics. Appx 1989. Access became involved with Sun Micro Systems somewhere during 1989 - 1990. It was the association with Sun that propelled Access Graphics to new growth. During this time period, Access also connected with Lockheed Martin. Summary John was in California, on the coast, at Port Hueneme -- in 1966. His association with Vidar , located on the Calif. Coast, appears to be somewhere around '73 to '75, 76. Later, John's company, Access Graphics, opens a satellite company in Amsterdam, Holland. Access Graphic had two warehouses: One was located in Pennsylvania, and one was located in California. John admitted traveling to Holland, France, and England. Again, John ONLY answered questions posed to him by Hill. He did not volunteer information, so there are large time gaps that need to be considered. Questions: When was F. White in Newport? Can anyone pull up some dates that MW has furnished for us? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Mountain View" Posted by sabrina on 20:01:30 4/17/2000 Is a suburb of San Jose near the center of "silicone valley"... Is not near the coast, there is a mountain range between Mountain View and the coast. There also was a fairly large navy base there named "Moffett Field" but that closed a few years ago. I used to live there. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. " Sabrina" Posted by sarah on 21:30:53 4/17/2000 Sabrina, I am looking at a map of California. From what I see on the map, if you live in Mountain View, you may not be able to see the beach from the picture window in your living room, but it is at or near the coastal line of California when viewed on a map. John worked with Vidar, which at that time was located in Mountain Valley. John Ramsey had a satillite office in Atlanta, but I imagine some point in time he traveled to Mountain View just as he traveled to another satillite office in Amsterdam. Also, from the deposition, John said he had a warehouse in California. He was not forthcoming as to where in Cal. that warehouse was located. Since you lived in California in or near that area, maybe you might be able to find where in California his warehouse was located. Who knows, it might provide another link? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Outstanding," Posted by Holly on 21:57:56 4/17/2000 Sarah. Now we can place JR from time to time in CA, near the MW mess, at the critical times. If MW is 37 now, then in 1968, she was just 5 -- nearly JB's age. And that was during her period of abuse. I wonder if FW was in the Navy? It's imperative we find out where that Access warehouse was. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Mountain View-- Researching CA Records" Posted by sabrina on 22:48:23 4/17/2000 I don't live in Mountain View anymore but it is packed with high tech companies and is part of Silicone Valley. It may look like it's near the coast, but you cannot get on a road and drive to the coast, there is a mountain range in the middle. It also had a heavy navy connection and I believe the base at one time was quite large and was an air base... If there is any research to be done I'd be more than happy to do it but I am about 500 miles away from Mountain View now. I know one can go to the county offices in CA and research property records,business licenses, etc. for that particular county only. If someone lives nearby there and wants to research this, it's pretty easy, but you have to go into the county offices to look up the records, it's not on line. (I have done it in my county when investigating an exboyfriend!!) The older stuff is on microfisch. If there is anything to research in my county I would be happy to do it, I live about 3 miles from the county building but I don't think any of these businesses were in my county.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Sarah, et al." Posted by Msracoon on 21:32:37 4/17/2000 Where can I find that deposition transcript? I scrolled thru it but did not study it before. thanks. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "More Bio on JR" Posted by Starling on 22:44:48 4/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:44:48, 4/17/2000 *Born December 7, 1943 in Lincoln Nebraska *Attended Randolph Elementary School the same year Jeff Ramsey was born *Attended Lefler Junior High in Lincoln Nebraska *Attended High School in Okemos Michigan 1957 Summer jobs at an engineering company and the state highway department *Attended Michigan State University (worked for his father while attending college, lived in Emmons Hall) 1961 *Joined ROTC and became president of the "Theta Chi Fraternity" *Announced his engagement to Lucinda Pasch in 1965 *Earned a degree at Michigan State in Electrical Engineering in June of 1966. *Married Lucinda Lou Pasch in July of 1966. *Navy Service - OCS at Newport *Civil Engineer Core School at Port Waneenee *Fullfilled ROTC obligation at Subic Bay Phillipines (assigned to the Public Works Center, Facilities Engineer over the Naval Supply Depot Facility - traveled to Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan & Thailand) *Beth was born 1969 *Active Duty ends 1970 *Stayed in the Reserves for 8 years (drilled with the Naval Air Station in Atlanta, Cecil Field Group in Florida and was Officer in Charge of Construction for the Southeast 70-78) *Earned his Master's Degree at Michigan State University Business School 1971 *Melinda was born *Hired in Chicago - Moved to Columbus to work with AT&T. 1972 *Was fired from AT&T 1973 *Moved to Huntsville Alabama and took a job in technical sales. BCS Associates 1973 *A year and half later moved to Atlanta Georgia 1975 *Worked for Vidar (Mountain View California 5 year work period) *Worked for Accurex (electrical engineering) *John Andrew was born *Had an affair, seperated from wife and his mother died, 1977 *Divorce finalized 1978 *Took a managing positon at Southern Peripherals and Instruments in Atlanta. (His bosses were unhappy with him because he tried to expense about 5k's worth of repairs on his Porche and personal flying costs.) *Starts dating Patsy Ramsey in 1979 *Married Patsy Ramsey on November 5, 1980 *Became a deacon at Peachtree Presbyterian Church *Borrowed money from Don Paugh and moved to Dunwoody and launched Techinical Equipment Specialists, Inc. known as TecSpec. *Moved the business to the airport so he could fly in his spare time. *Joined two other entrepreneurs to create MicroSouth. (he was president/last I heard Jeff Ramsey still works for this and they had 6 warehouses at one point) *MicroSouth linked with a California firm, Calcomp. *Advanced Products Group was also created in 1986. *Burke Ramsey is born 1987 and his name came from a dream John had of a man in a white robe telling him to do so. *APG merged with CAD Source and CAD Distributors to form Access Graphics 1989 *John Ramsey's commutes to Boulder 1989-90 *JonBenet Ramsey is born August 7, 1990 *Lockheed Martin Acquires AG during 1991. *Ramsey's move to Boulder 1991 *December 18, 1992 AG, CAD Source are sued by Archetectronics - for "for trade secret misappropriation, breach of contract, tortious interference with contract rights, and copyright infringement" - U.S.D.J Mike MuCasey of New York presides. *January 8, 1992 Beth dies. *His father James Ramsey died in 1992. *Rearguement granted in part and denied in part in AG scandal before U.S.D.J. MuCasey. (Tsk.Tsk.Tsk) *JonBenet Ramsey found murdered in Boulder home 1996 *GE aquires AG when LM unloads it 1997 [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "provokes great questions" Posted by SJ on 22:21:55 4/17/2000 Need to re-read that depo, but I just started ST's book! If some of this can be connected, there is good reason to further investigate. Can someone in California check the Secretary of State to see if there is an Access Graphics listed as doing biz there (even though it was sold)? Or Ramsey or White? Property records will be available for the warehouse but where? Lots of cities to pick from! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Holly..." Posted by rose on 22:22:47 4/17/2000 Can a citizen get a copy of trial transcripts? The Macky Boykin transcript and any other papers connected to him could give a few leads on this case thread. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "rose." Posted by Holly on 22:59:14 4/17/2000 Because the victim was a minor, obtaining a court certified transcript might be hard. However, I know for a fact, someone is working on that issue. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Distribution Center" Posted by Msracoon on 22:29:15 4/17/2000 San Francisco [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Msracoon" Posted by Twinkle on 22:33:38 4/17/2000 Here's the url to the deposition http://www.thedailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/2000/0206deposition.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Msracoon" Posted by frankg on 22:32:38 4/17/2000 Try the following link.. http://www.thedailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/0206deposition.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Thanks Twinkle & Frank" Posted by Msracoon on 22:37:50 4/17/2000 for that depo. url. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Hey y'all" Posted by Msracoon on 22:42:13 4/17/2000 Did you hear me about the distribution center/shipping being in San Fran.? That would be the warehouse, right? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "MsRac." Posted by Holly on 22:57:45 4/17/2000 Where in San Francisco? I think I may puke. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Sabrina." Posted by Holly on 23:01:00 4/17/2000 Which county? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Holly" Posted by Msracoon on 23:03:49 4/17/2000 I'm trying so hard to understand this timeline. It's hard. Anyway, to answer your question; I went to the site and looking in the jobs available and chose Distribution Manager and some others. It just says the location for distr. center is San Fran. and email to Boulder about applying - Pearl St. Tell me, cause I haven't caught it yet, why are you going to puke? Because it's on the coast? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "MsRac." Posted by Holly on 08:08:06 4/18/2000 email me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "OCS Officer Candidate school" Posted by listener on 23:16:56 4/17/2000 is not in Newport Beach, Ca. Maybe it's Rhode Island. Mountain View & San Luis Obispo are not beach towns, but both are relatively close to beaches. I haven't had time to go back & check archives, but I still think that MW's therapist lived down in Southern Calif., in San Juan Capistrano, and that MW lived nearby....prolly in the Los Osos Parkway area. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "AG Warehouse/Menlo Park" Posted by Starling on 23:43:44 4/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 23:43:44, 4/17/2000 December 6, 1993 Computer Reseller News "The agreement is part of a larger plan by Access to move aggressively into systems configuration. To prepare for the shift, Access recently realigned its warehouse operations, opening master warehouses and integration centers in Menlo Park, Calif., and Harrisburg, Pa. The company this month closed its master warehouse in Wilmington, Ohio, where it had been relying heavily on Airborne Express' air freight services, and stopped maintaining inventory at seven regional warehouses provided by other freight carriers. Access is the second major distributor recently to close a facility in Wilmington, near Airborne's hub. Gates/FA Distributing Inc. is in the process of moving its warehouse from Wilmington to Memphis, Tenn. But unlike Gates/FA, Access is making the move as part of a shift away from air delivery toward ground transportation. "We're finding that ground transportation has gotten a lot better," said John Ramsey, Access' president and chief executive. Ramsey said that with Access' new East and West Coast facilities, the company is able to reach all of the United States with two-day ground service and more than half of the country with one-day service." "Menlo Park (population 32,000) is located in southern San Mateo County midway between San Francisco and San Jose. The physical setting of its nineteen square miles is spectacular, with San Francisco Bay to the east and the Pacific coastal range on the west." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "More Warehouses" Posted by Starling on 00:11:10 4/18/2000 Ok, this is what I've found out. When I ran a search for MicroSouth - I also got a hit on Vidar Distributors. I used www.altavista.com Through Vidar - I found this page: http://www.vidar.com/north_am.html There you'll see a bunch of links for a company called TekGraf. I have documents that says MicroSouth aquired TekGraf in June of 1993, which is located in Houston Texas. MicroSouth - it'self was aquired 3 months earlier by a company called Network Digital Imaging. I also have Ramsey articles after the murder from the Atlanta Constitution, that states Jeff Ramsey was still employed by MicrSouth - after JonBenet's death. Microsouth had offices in Atlanta, Tampa and Winston-Salem. All this interlooping is getting strange. But what hasn't been strange in all of this? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Trailing Edge." Posted by Holly on 08:13:06 4/18/2000 Did you know Patsy was President of a company incorporated as Trailing Edge (now defunct) in Boulder and Atlanta? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Extraordinary work..." Posted by Dr. Who on 07:12:32 4/18/2000 sarah, starling and others...good luck! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Amazing" Posted by mary99 on 07:30:38 4/18/2000 Fantastic sleuthing, keep going! Can anyone look up birth records online? If we knew where Boykin was born, could we track his criminal history ? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "Boykin was born in California" Posted by SJ on 22:44:49 4/18/2000 according to SS records. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. " Another snippet From the depo" Posted by sarah on 08:10:40 4/18/2000 Starling..you are amazin'. It's good to be with posters who like to connect the dots, rather than attempt to erase them. On another note- Lee's attempts to get information about the party per se, that took place on the 23rd - linked here because I don't know where else to put it.. If anyone is interested in reading the majority of this particular text, to get the feel and the flow of where Hill was going, it formally starts on page 41, line 17, of the depo. This is a condensed version. Lee Hill is interested in the party hosted by the Rams Dec. 23rd. He wants to know who exactly attended the party. John says, gee, golly, gosh, I can't remember... Hill asks if invitations were sent out and John knows enough to say no to that idea. As always, John puts the onus on Patsy. She called the party goers. She invited the people. 20 Q. Who did you invite to that party? 21 A. They were a group of friends and their children. 22 Certainly some of the people I've mentioned were there. 23 Priscilla White's parents were there. Some guests they 24 had, who we didn't know, were there. There might have 25 been others. That's all I can remember. 'GIFTS' : Could Lee be thinking about the Santa bear? Did Lee know about " little gifts" at this time? ......... 13 Q. Were gifts exchanged? 14 A. Patsy had little gifts for each of the children 15 and at least some of the adults, just token gifts. 16 Q. So somewhere we could expect that there is a 17 record of, for example, how many people attended the party 18 and who was there? 19 A. There wouldn't be a record. John does not OFFER any information about the party attendees. He does not tell us if anyone(s) else came bearing gifts, and what gifts, if any were exchanged. Hill continues to attempt to extract names from tight-lipped John. Wishy-washy John just can't seem to remember who was at the party. In all, when pressed, John offers two or three names to Hill. 20 Q. Someone would remember? Who is the best person that would remember? A. I think we've gone through that, hadn't we -- I don't know -- for the police, but -- B. Q: I don't know anything -- I haven't been a part of that or privy to it, so that's why I'm asking you. A: I mean, the best way we would have to remember is to just sit down and try to remember A. I think we've done that, but I don't remember what we came up with. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why won't John give names? Why won't John share as much information as possible? Inquiring minds want to know. Hill goes on to ask for specifics; was there a LAWYER at the party,,a journalist, anyone in law enforcement...(do you sense a clue here?) John answers 'no' to these questions, while at the same time will not give names. Of course the question begs to be asked, How is it that he will not give names, doesn't remember who was at the party, but knows the professions of the all but forgotten guests ? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Sarah" Posted by Chart on 13:17:39 4/18/2000 You ask good questions on an excellent thread. I mentioned on the daily that I stayed up much too late into the wee hours of the morning following a trail to Silicon Valley from this thread. Continuing with the Mountain View, CA reference I found a few JR connections. If any of you remember "pooper-scooper" from the old J-7 board, I found him still ranting about the JR/business connection to just about everything on a thread called "Looking for JonBenet's killer ?" - found at http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a169381.htm If you check it out, you have to zero into one particular company. Although, he was never taken very seriously at the time, some of what he says checks out. Access Graphics counted Silicon Graphics Inc., of Mountain View, CA, as one of it's largest vendors. http://www.crn.com/sections/10q/761_10QA.asp IT's location: http://www.sgi.com/company_info/images/airportmap_a.jpg "Screaming supermarket tabloid headlines and ever-present television camera crews became a daily reality for a distributor that wanted only to maintain its focus on its sales of the Sun Microsystems Inc. and Silicon Graphics Inc. brands: http://www.crn.com/sections/10q/733_10QA.asp As far as Silicon Graphics' being in trouble with illegal sales to both China and Russia, it's true. I found lots of documentaion. Some links to follow: http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/congress/1997_h/h970415m.htm and Silicon Graphics Cooperating With Commerce Department Regarding Sale of Computers to Russian Laboratory February 18, 1997 http://www.fas.org/MHonArc/AT-doc_archive/msg00017.html Infact the company admits in their own quarterly report -"The Department of Commerce is currently investigating the Company's compliance with the export regulations in connection with the sale of several computer systems to a customer in Russia during fiscal 1997." http://biz.yahoo.com/e/990216/sgi.html This may be alot of nothing, but it does show JR may have had involvement in unethical foreign business sales tjhrough his reselling deals with Silicon Graphics. It takes a brain better than mine to find any relevant connections here to what I was looking for when I started, but maybe someone else who has more business savvy can find something pertinent in this. If I've wasted alot of bandwidth on nothing, forgive me - I was just trying to develop a fruitful connection. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Chart." Posted by Holly on 14:34:14 4/18/2000 Fantastic. I wonder if Fleet White had any interest in shipping? Don't they ship computers overseas on cargoe vessels? Is it possible that FW already knew JR, or upon meeting him in 1993, started doing business together? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Holly" Posted by Chart on 15:01:33 4/18/2000 I was wondering also whether it could be possible that JR had already met FW in CA earlier, at sometime before Boulder. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Maybe FW moved to Boulder " Posted by lee2 on 16:25:32 4/18/2000 BECAUSE of John Ramsey - and the women were just to meet "accidentally" Maybe they had some other business dealings that have never come out . . . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Holly..." Posted by rose on 12:56:18 4/18/2000 Couldn't MW sign a release for her court records to be opened? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "It might" Posted by Holly on 16:13:37 4/18/2000 entail a motion in court, supported by an affadavit from her or her attorney. Harder to accomplish than you might think -- for good reason. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Pretty weird stuff sarah and chart..." Posted by Dr. Who on 13:44:01 4/18/2000 JR is smart enough to put together an almost FORTUNE 500 company and never seems to be able to answer any questions about anything when it comes to depositions and detectives questions concerning his daughters demise... Did *pooper scooper* post here, seems I remember that *hat* though I believe MW used many hats trying to communicate her mysterious message... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Dr. Who" Posted by Chart on 14:26:07 4/18/2000 I don't remember if "pooper-scooper" ever came along with us on the move from J-7 to JW. Maybe someone else remembers. He sounded as though he was trying to prove that there were some shady business connections to JR and, thus, I always thought he was in favor of the intruder theory, but with a conspiracy twist - in that there was a deliberately ordered cover-up from the start. I don't believe most of the folks here took his theory seriously, but he brought up lots of valid info while trying to prove it. It does tie in to JR's connection to Mountain View in a way he hadn't reported in the deposition. Regarding MW's posting here - I just never considered it. Maybe mame would know. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Peachtree Deacon?" Posted by Edie Pratt on 13:26:54 4/18/2000 someone wrote JR was a deacon for that church. What's a deacon, and is there anyone in this case familiar with that church other than the Ramsey's? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "EP, a deacon..." Posted by Dr. Who on 13:52:55 4/18/2000 is like a church *elder*, except some of them aren't old...make sense LOL? Different denominations assign their *deacons* different tasks...in some churches it's sort of an honorary *thing*, maybe collecting the collection plates/baskets during a service.In some churches they are the social and economic advisors to the churches ministerial staff and hold voting power on the way a church is run... hope that helps. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Bennett Ramsey Group" Posted by Chris on 14:35:00 4/18/2000 Remember this, from the June 13, 1999 Rocky Mountain News article by Lisa with two last names and Charlie Brennan... ''We've tried that before,'' Wood said. ''They're very good. We've lost them many a time.'' So good, in fact, that when 12-year-old Burke Ramsey testified before the grand jury May 19, the Ramseys accompanied him to Boulder and back to Georgia without being seen. Helping them go undetected was their decision to travel in John Ramsey's private nine-seat Mitsubishi aircraft, which he bought a year ago. Ramsey, an instrument flight-rated pilot, purchased the plane through his Bennett Ramsey Group Inc., a corporation registered in Wilmington, Del. Earlier in 1998, Ramsey had sold an older model Beech nine-seater. The family continued shedding assets this year, selling their Victorian-style vacation home in Charlevoix, Mich., in March. They filed a real estate transaction tax valuation affidavit, keeping private the sale price of their getaway, which they bought in 1992 for $336,000. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Wow, just think..." Posted by Dr. Who on 14:54:50 4/18/2000 with a plane like that you could travel anywhere undetected if I read the article correctly... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "JR the Pilot" Posted by Denver on 15:05:49 4/18/2000 Hmmm...I thought JR's eye sight was too bad to have a pilot's license...or was that another RamLie? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "the plane" Posted by Denver on 15:09:04 4/18/2000 N-number : N18475 Aircraft Serial Number : TH-879 Aircraft Manufacturer : BEECH Model : 58 Engine Manufacturer : CONT MOTOR Model : IO 520 SERIES Aircraft Year : 1977 Owner Name : BENNETT RAMSEY GROUP INC Owner Address : 3511 SILVERSIDE RD WILMINGTON, DE, 19810-4902 Registration Date : 23-Feb-2000 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Standard Approved Operations : Normal [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Interesting" Posted by lee2 on 16:20:38 4/18/2000 he had it set up as a Delaware corporation. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "Sarah, Johns business in Amsterdam" Posted by seenal on 15:38:16 4/18/2000 Thank you for posting your timeline and info on JR. Ever since the MW has come forward, I have a had a gut feeling that "child pornography" is involved in this heinous crime. Something that I have wondered about and maybe can be answered here is "Why would JR set up a company in Amsterdam, of all places in Europe? " I have read that Access had offices in the "red-light district" but I dont know if that is true. Im sure there was a warehouse there as well, I think I know where you are going with this. Im going to ask some other fellow sleuths about JR's business in Holland. JR is a slick man, quite slippery , I would like for the truth to come out about what happened to this little girl. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL seenal ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "proceed with caution" Posted by stryker on 16:21:57 4/18/2000 this multi-thread has been terrific and i'm so impressed with the work y'all have done. please be careful, however, or you might run into this:http://www.1112.net/lastpage.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "pooper scooper used to post>>>" Posted by ayelean on 17:21:32 4/18/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 17:21:32, 4/18/2000 on webbsleuths. you stated his theory correctly. I found his theory quite intriging and feel for sure that the ransom note tells John in coded form that if he doesn't protect the killer, information about illegal trading with China will be exposed. PoopScoop tried to make the writer of the ransom note foreign agents. I always thought that Patsy undoubtedly knew he was doing something that he could be arrested for as a traitor, and used it for blackmail. I think John is between a rock and a hard spot and has to defend the ransom note writer. It was also made known that the MW and PR knew each other. What a perfect foil to stage the murder using the MO of a sex ring. It may make everything true, MW's story, PooperScooper's story, Hey Rube's plot, everything tied together in a neat package, the perfect little murder. Of course all premeditated. (I had to edit to add that last line) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "ayelean, stryker" Posted by Chart on 20:35:15 4/18/2000 ayelean - I was very impressed by your version of pooper-scooper's theory, especially the ransom note/Patsy twist. Do you remember where it was written that PR ands MW were acquainted well enough for PR to be aware of MW's past? I've been very curious about any connection between them. I've begun to believe that is a possibility regarding the staging, since a poster here suggested it a while back. That poster may have been you - I'm not sure:-). stryker - Thanks for the surprise. We all could use the levity. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "chart" Posted by stryker on 21:27:06 4/18/2000 i just found that today, and i couldn't help myself. i have also been wondering about the similarities between jameson's story of abuse in her past and mw's story. wonder if she knew about mw and hijacked the story in order to be able to discredit her in some way? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "Dr.Who" Posted by Edie Pratt on 17:25:59 4/18/2000 Thanks a million:-) I have no religious background, I appreciate all education you guys give me on the subject. Now, I really have the creeps about JR,lol! He reminds me of that Walker Railey(sp?), the phony minister that got away with murdering his wife. Religion is the best beard for pedophiles, too. Plenty of ministers have been exposed for it over the years, I wouldn't be surprised if deacon's were in that club, too. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Chart" Posted by Dianne E. on 21:56:09 4/18/2000 I live in Mountain View, CA and can hopefully clear up a few points and add my two cents. Access Graphics made a deal with Sun early and was able to get a prime deal as a key distributor of Sun's products. This was all before the internet "boom". When Access Graphics says they have sales of 1 billion, this can appear misleading without further explanation. A SUN system is quite expensive so it doesn't take a ton of them to reach a billion dollars in sales, and Access Graphics was a reseller/distributor so the actual net profit for this business is not as great as it sounds at first blush. Part of the services that Access Graphics offers is they "bundle" products and services. Silicon Graphics is a vendor to Access meaning that they are selling products to Access who then resells them. Access is considered a vendor to Sun because Access buys from Sun, bundles and resells them. Somewhere JohnBoy states he turned down the job offer in Mountain View because of the expense. This statement, IMO, is completely untrue. Mountain View during those years was a bargain in this area. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Dianne E. ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "Dianne E." Posted by Chart on 23:29:11 4/18/2000 Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know about the job offer. You make an interesting observation. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "Chart" Posted by Dianne E. on 23:51:05 4/18/2000 Maybe the job offer was in DOI, as I recall the year was around 1986? The comment sounds like it could make sense when you consider the real estate market here NOW, but I can guarantee you things were much different then. The statement grabbed my attention as being a phony reason and made me wonder why? JohnBoy was in the high tech field, this is the area to pursue that goal, so why the phony reason for not wanting to move? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Dianne E. ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]