Justice Watch Discussion Board [ JonBenét Ramsey Discussion ] [ Missing & Exploited Children and True Crimes ] [ Front Porch ] [ Work Out Room ] "Holly Interviews Mame PART 2" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Holly Interviews Mame PART 2, ToppCat, 20:30:26, 4/20/2000 oh goodie, more news! , mary99, 20:57:04, 4/20/2000, (#1) Anyone having trouble posting , Colorado-an, 22:12:05, 4/20/2000, (#3) Technically, Holly, 22:07:55, 4/20/2000, (#2) HollY !!, mary99, 22:48:44, 4/20/2000, (#4) HELP!!, starfish, 23:28:18, 4/20/2000, (#5) yikes!, mame, 23:38:38, 4/20/2000, (#6) mame..., szundi, 23:40:43, 4/20/2000, (#7) That was great!, Msracoon, 23:46:34, 4/20/2000, (#8) szundi!, mame, 23:50:37, 4/20/2000, (#9) Hey mary99, Holly, 23:50:55, 4/20/2000, (#10) Holly and mame..., szundi, 23:56:32, 4/20/2000, (#11) Very Interesting!, canadiana, 00:11:21, 4/21/2000, (#12) Finally!, Greenleaf, 00:36:06, 4/21/2000, (#13) Blush ! :-), mary99, 02:15:54, 4/21/2000, (#14) Please, please, please, janphi, 03:41:42, 4/21/2000, (#15) Hmmm, janphi., Holly, 06:37:21, 4/21/2000, (#17) Janphi, starfish and all , mary99, 06:32:12, 4/21/2000, (#16) Holly, mary99 & of course, mame..., janphi, 07:38:26, 4/21/2000, (#22) Amazing, mary99., Holly, 06:44:14, 4/21/2000, (#19) oops! Hi Holly!, mary99, 06:42:08, 4/21/2000, (#18) mary99., Holly, 06:53:10, 4/21/2000, (#20) I have a question, Househazard, 07:21:02, 4/21/2000, (#21) I have a question, too, janphi, 07:55:06, 4/21/2000, (#24) janphi, Holly, 08:20:53, 4/21/2000, (#25) Househazard., Holly, 07:51:21, 4/21/2000, (#23) ................................................................... "Holly Interviews Mame PART 2" Posted by ToppCat on 20:30:26 4/20/2000 Hi Everyone, The second Mame interview (part two) is now up at the broadcast site. It's a great show with lots of information. Holly did a GREAT job with these interviews. I'm posting this because ListBot had a message saying that they are experiencing "severe" delays getting list Emails out tonight. So, if you're on the Email list, you have a notice coming your way . . . but I have no idea when you'll receive it. http://www.holoworld.com/ramseyreports Take Care, Frank (ToppCat) [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "oh goodie, more news! " Posted by mary99 on 20:57:04 4/20/2000 Thanks Toppcat, can't wait to listen. Much anticipation today, after searching the web to no avail, I'm so thankful we have you, Mame and Holly! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Anyone having trouble posting " Posted by Colorado-an on 22:12:05 4/20/2000 or is it just me? I don't know what I am doing wrong. Anyway thanks Toppcat, for those of us who are technically challenged I appreciate how much work you do to get these to us. Can't wait to get over to listen, the first half was great! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Technically" Posted by Holly on 22:07:55 4/20/2000 well done, TC. Mame delivers and it was alot of fun! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "HollY !!" Posted by mary99 on 22:48:44 4/20/2000 You are awesome! Fantastic questions, detailed answers, and you and Mame have an incredible rapport. Everyone who needs more info on Mystery Witness needs to listen up now. Mame has news! Holly, your questions are great. You're a natural reporter and interview # 3 sounds like a good idea. Mame has good solid info and shares lots of her thoughts and experiences with us concerning her time with Mystery Woman without giving case evidence away. The story of MW is so compelling and sad, I always get choked up. She symbolizes so many things that we as a society need to look at; our injusticesystem, the culture of denial of ritual abuse, our horrible tolerance for sexual exploitation and our inability to confront ugly secrets like generational incest. Detectives, forensic specialists, pathologists, profilers, all kinds of scientists have tried to find the way to the end of the tunnel, to no avail. Thank you for bringing her story out. It means more than all the other 'expert opinions'. The power of the pen is mightier than the sword. Congratulations, Toppcat, on your new book, Shoebox Holography. My kids are at the age for science projects. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "HELP!!" Posted by starfish on 23:28:18 4/20/2000 We need transcripts! For both Part 1 and Part 2. Are they available yet? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "yikes!" Posted by mame on 23:38:38 4/20/2000 i still haven't finished the hunter transcripts! mr. mame is around this weekend. maybe i'll find time to do them. not sure, i'll try! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "mame..." Posted by szundi on 23:40:43 4/20/2000 Did you ever find Sadie? The suspense is killing me. szundi [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "That was great!" Posted by Msracoon on 23:46:34 4/20/2000 thanks y'all. that was tremendous!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "szundi!" Posted by mame on 23:50:37 4/20/2000 yes, you animal lover you! she was found at the corner store on pearl street. she goes right behind the counter where the dog biscuits are! she must have taken a detour because she came home smelling mighty awful! had to be taken to "scrub your pup" our dog washin' spot. you scrub your own. the twins had fun doing that! no tickets...thank goodness! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Hey mary99" Posted by Holly on 23:50:55 4/20/2000 Did you hear your name mentioned? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Holly and mame..." Posted by szundi on 23:56:32 4/20/2000 ...really enjoyed your conversations. Listened to both of them earlier. Of course, I was worried about Sadie and kept thinking that the phone ringing in the background was the Dog Warden calling to tell mame she had 20 min. to come and get her OR ELSE! szundi [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Very Interesting!" Posted by canadiana on 00:22:13 4/21/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 00:22:13, 4/21/2000 Thank you Holly, mame, TC! Really enjoyed hearing your 'take' on everything. Great questions and answers, many thanks. So glad to hear your dog is back and safe! TC tell us more about your book! edited to ask mame if your experience with The Witness has changed your view of the case? Have you changed your initial opinion or perhaps her experience has confirmed your beliefs? I have no idea what your opinion is, but I wondered if anything has changed for you now. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Finally!" Posted by Greenleaf on 00:46:34 4/21/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 00:46:34, 4/21/2000 I got my Real Player up and going, and Holly's interviews with mame were the very first time I was able to hear anything. It was the 2nd half of the 2nd interview that I found the most compelling. Holly seemed a bit timid during the 1st interview, but things really got rolling later on. I am fascinated with mame's knowledge of the case. She divulged many bits and pieces that I had not been privy to; i.e., that MW spent three weeks with her. Holly's pertinent questions displayed her broad knowledge of the case, as she elicited relevant responses from mame. I came away with the feeling that these two gals, a part of our JW family, are extraordinarily suited as super sleuths. Between the two of them, they seem to know many nuances of the case, which sometimes seem lost on the main- stream media. Thanks to you both. That was most refreshing. I guess I'll have to pay more attention to you both, from now on. LOL. Thanks also to TopCat. You deserve a lot of credit for getting this broadcast together for all of us. Thanks also to B.J. I am going to buy your book if I can find it. I have a few questions, too, for mame, but it's late, and I'll wait until tomorrow. Peace and love, Greenleaf [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Blush ! :-)" Posted by mary99 on 02:15:54 4/21/2000 Hey, Holly, you give me too much credit. All my questions about Mystery Woman have been answered, thanks to your probing questions. You stopped and backed up and asked Mame to clarify a few times (about the Xeroxes and the stun gun marks)and I was listening thinking Wow, you don't miss a chance to ask a question. Do a part three, soon, and Kudos to all. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Please, please, please" Posted by janphi on 03:41:42 4/21/2000 Will someone give us lowly "have nots" a synopsis of the interview? I can't pick up the webcasts, like many others. Oh, mary99, what questions were answered? I'd like to know, been working really hard on that MW angle for background. Please tell! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Hmmm, janphi." Posted by Holly on 06:37:21 4/21/2000 MW is from CA, 37 yrs old. Lifetime of sex ring abuses. Provocative photo posing (sleazy)since childhood. Abusers include people we are interested in. Her abuse experiences include garotting, head whacks. In therapy for 10 years w/Mary Bienkowski 99% of her experience documented by Bienkowski before JB's murder, some before her birth. Wanted to come forward earlier, very difficult. Brought documentation. Video tape made of her evidence stunned Plasket and mame. Hill wanted to use LA area law enforcement - not small town cops. Gave up everything - home, car, pets to come. False reports claims by S Luis Obispo cops are false. They just never investigated her claims. Macky Boykin indicted on 64 counts of abuse where she was sole victim. Prominent journalist ready to go to CA to talk with CA DA and pull Boykin record. Mary saw his mugshot. Motivated because she wants to stop current abuses to children. Wants to stay private until cops finish investigation. Has rejected thousands of dollars in media offers. Wants to preserve her integrity. Needed medical help, MRI in Denver. Mame's neighbor was obnoxious ER Dr in Boulder. Lived with Mame for 3 wks. Has stun gun scars in neck. Mame saw them. They DO resemble Smit drawings of JB injuries. If her abusers/handlers find her they will kill her. She is out of state. There's more, janphi. mame is working on transcript. Hope this helps a bit. If you have a specific question, email me -- mreg@erols.com. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Janphi, starfish and all " Posted by mary99 on 06:32:12 4/21/2000 Here's some of the latest news: Toppcat has a new book, Shoebox Holography. It's a manual designed to be used in schools to teach students how to make Holograms using lasers. Possible applications in forensics. He's lecturing at the Smithsonian for the annual meeting of the National Association of Educators, beginning the 29th and open to the public May 6th. It's for sale at Amazon.com. We are honored to have ya, Toppcat! Toppcat is planning a special barbeque for Mame and they make some jokes about aprons. Here's Holly Holly: Hi, what's new? Mame: Sadie is missing, hope animal control doesn't arrest her. Holly: Let's catch up from yesterday, your newspaper beginnings. Mame: My Dad went to Boston Univesity, I grew up around newspapers. Mame's nickname at age 3 was 'scoop''cause she was well-informed and remembered everything, read at age 3 1/2, worked in the ad deptartment at 14, went to school in Columbia MI and went to a girl's school. Wished she went to U Miss across the street, they had a great journalism school. She went to work for the newspaper when there was a strike, against her Dad's wishes and was marketing and promotion director for Gannett Papers. The newspaper, Gannett Corporate, liked her though and she tried all different jobs in the course of her employment w/ Gannett but never did newsroom reporting. She even had a bodyguard when she and her husband to be were dating! After she went to work in Chicago as a reporter! Holly: Why a body guard? Were there threats? Yes, says Mame, but no big deal. Holly: How did you come to follow this case? Did you watch OJ? When Mame arrived in Boulder, with Scott, she never thought of reporting. She went on the Internet but didn't post, didn't want to give up her anomyity. Mame has always been a real crime and trial buff. She saw how lousy the reporting was after the JBR murder. She likes Carol McK, of course BJ PLaskett, but they were the exception to the rule. Her interest in Rams started when she saw a small little blurb in the newspaper and she found the Internet in Jan. 97. Her neighbors weren't talking about it except in whispers and that's when she realized how the journalists weren't bring the real story to the people, just sound bites, no ethics, pageant snippets. Mame says the problem was: "We've got a dead kid,a DA who won't pull the trigger, etc." BJ was never concerned with being liked, he just spoke to the reader. Mame thinks of BJ and Chuck Green as the journalists most like her Dad. She holds BJ Plasket in high esteem and quotes her Dad, "If you post a paper on a tree and people stop and read it you're a journalist!" So Mame believes that too many reporters weren't giving the real story: they were sick of the roller coaster, the community was indifferent, the problems in the DA's ofice and the BPD, the foot-dragging, etc. So Holly wants to know: Will this case ever go to trial? Mame says, sadly, she is losing hope for seeing this case being prosecuted. Clients who talk get their attorney upset. Holly: What's the point of logging on if it's over? What about the DNA, and the cold case comment from Dr. Lee? Mame says it's all over, unless something like a confession happens. Holly thinks justice is coming and MW is our best hope. Mame quotes Steven Jackson, Westword writer, (who has a best-selling true crime book out now, called Monster and also wrote "The Accidental Jurist"): Steve Jackson, thinks a trial will come to pass if either one of the perps confesses or if someone is charged for a related crime and domino effect brings down the JBR perp. Camera article was written by the editorial page write, not feature writer. Holly asks about the Hunter announcement and how the public picked up on it. Mame and BJ went to see Lee Hill when this story broke open. MW was not there. Mame and BJ saw connecting documents from MW family and case people, 'notables?' Holly asks, and Mame said yes, there were case figures in Boulder in the MW documents. Holly: What did you think when you saw it? Did you think it might be fake? Mame: No, never that kind of questioning. But after Steven Miles, Mame felt that Hill would never take a case which might bring embarassment. She and Plasket saw a lot of pictures, there was even a video that Lee Hill took of the evidence in CA. A few days later, Mame and BJ went to Lee's office for another interview, and met MW. She is a brown-haired, blue-eyed attractive woman. She and Hill spent 3-4 hours with Mame and BJ and they saw the videotape of letters and a mug shot of Macky Boykin, who was so awful looking Mame was haunted for a week. Mame had no idea MW had no safe place to stay. She found out that she was going from one hotel to another. Mame as a mother, as a human being, wanted to help. It's about whether or not one wants to stop at the car wreck or keep going. Mame let Hill and MW talk it over privately and she called her (saintly) husband who said, no problem. MW wasn't violent or clingy, she was funny and her kids loved her. MW needed a MRI for a suspected anurism as a result of her abuse prior to leaving California. Denver was providing a very good safe place for MW and even a policeman was hired. Holly wants to know if she was being threatened. No, Mame says, but she was being offered tens of thousands of dollars to keep her mouth shut. The tabs were hounding her and she had to leave Denver. MW needed get some clothes and Mame gave her a skirt to wear to the hospital. MW said, I hate getting dressed up, it reminded her of her abuse. She was put in ads, and on calendars as a child and was exploited. Holly asks if it was acceptable...meaning porn or not. Mame says, it was all iffy considering what these people were doing to her. She wasn't in pageants as far as Mame remembers. She was dolled up and had blonde hair and blue eyes and the Barbie look. Mame and Holly talk turkey about the evidence. 99% of this evidence was written down before JonBenet was murdered, and a lot before she was even born. All the so-called 'false' police reports were never followed up properly. Lee Hill wanted to work it through the LA court system, but the emergency situation that prompted MW to leave made that impossible. Holly asks Mame why not tell us here name? (GO Holly!) After all, her abusers know her name, the cops know her name, the tabs know her name. Mame says she really wants to her privacy, she is doing this for the sake of 'children who may be getting hurt now' Mame tells a story of how SChiller moved physically away when Jane Stobie brought up the issue of abuse when they were discussing the case. How people think it's too awful to talk about. How this small girl may be in danger. Holly: Explain the sex ring, these 'handlers' and if it's for sex or ? Mame: Well, it's a group, that's been doing this for generations. They talk about PB and his outrageous comments about MW. A victim/witness advocate from Boulder blew her cover, and there were cops all over the hospital. The Dr was a real **s and acted very badly to MW, they sent her home w/o any pain meds. She has stun gun injuries in her neck, but they were scarred over by the time MW showed them to Mame. She and Mame watched BaBa Wawa together. Holly wants to know if MW ever met the Ramseys. Mame hedges(gotcha, Mame!) and says better not say. The possibility of the domino effect stemming from the FBI charging someone in another state with an interstate crime could bring a resolution. Both agree that there is a high probability that the FBI could blow it or the BPD will brush her off. Mame says "The power of the pen rides again." Right now everyone is waiting foor the investigation to finish. MW can be rehabilitated if she has to come out and tell the media if the cops let her down, but Thomas might prove to be thorn in the side of a prosecution. Holly tells us how if the cops brush her off, it could become a defense tactic if the Rams are charged. The BPD will look like fools if the cops don't investigate this thoroughly. Mame does not know where she is, but does tell us that she had a good job, her own car, paid her bills, had gone to school and was a productive member of society before she left Cal. She was very distraught to have left her pets behind, but she had little choice. The importance of what she's doing now for other victims, and protecting herself left her little choice. Holly and Mame are going to give us another round in a week or so...Hero or Villian! Toppcat and Mame are going to bring us some Grand Jury coverage tapes and we'll look forward to that. Thanks for a great interview, Mame and Holly and please accept my very inaccurate rendering...I tried to get the gist but it's not word for word. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Holly, mary99 & of course, mame..." Posted by janphi on 07:38:26 4/21/2000 Thank you, thank you, thank you. Your transcripts are truly appreciated. I know how much work that was and will try to reciprocate in some small way, as I can. Again, my thanks! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Amazing, mary99." Posted by Holly on 06:44:14 4/21/2000 That's an excellent synopsis. Thanks. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "oops! Hi Holly!" Posted by mary99 on 06:42:08 4/21/2000 I guess you were busy transcribing while I was busy transcribing. I took forever cause I'm a slow typist and Mame talks fast. :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "mary99." Posted by Holly on 06:53:10 4/21/2000 Hah! You noticed she's a "speed talker", too! LOL. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "I have a question" Posted by Househazard on 07:21:02 4/21/2000 Do you know how close they are to finishing the MW investigation? I find this all so interesting. It amazes me that some (I'm not including people on this forum) people just will not admit that such a thing as a sex ring exists. It is scary, but sadly, it does happen. I had posted an Initiation thread a couple weeks ago and hope that MW is the key to finding out what really happened to JonBenet. P.S. You guys are really great!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "I have a question, too" Posted by janphi on 07:55:06 4/21/2000 For Holly to ask mame or for mame to tell us: Now I am so thoroughly confused about stun guns and their effects on the body, primarily skin, that I can't think straight! That research on the 'Net said that stun gun marks disappeared after 2 hours on most people and up to 24 hours on darker complected people. When looking at lots of the stun gun literature online, I did notice there were all types of different "strengths" (voltage, I guess?) of stun guns and, of course, the sellers of these don't differentiate in the skin problems caused. Is it possible the "higher powered" ones make permanent or long-lasting burns and the "lower powered" ones do not? It was my understanding that the reason "bad guys" used stun guns in repetitive abuse was so they wouldn't leave a trace on a victim's body, among other reasons. Did you (mame) talk to MW at any length about this? Would a perp have to keep "stunning" over and over in the same place to make that kind of burn? Do you know? Also, were MW's scars little round dots or little squares? I am still thinking about Ruthee's weaving loom marks as being square, but the stun gun demonstrations online showed rounded dots, and JB's abrasions were described as squares. Can we clear any of this up? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "janphi" Posted by Holly on 08:20:53 4/21/2000 I read the stun gun stuff over at Ken Polzin's site. It stated minimal effects also. Mame looked carefully. She reported observing what Lou Smit pictured, only "scarred" over. This is a question I have also. I'd like to know what medical people diagnosed regarding MW. They really should have re-autopsied JB and put an end to the speculation about her injuries. MW says, stun gun. There is alot of "erotica" info on cattle prods and stun guns. Search cattle prods on the net -- also includes stun guns. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Househazard." Posted by Holly on 07:51:21 4/21/2000 It has been over two months. Not a peep from the FBI or BPD. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]