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THE SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENCE, Ruthee, 12:08:12, 4/25/2000 Davis was not a pedophile, Ruthee, 12:16:25, 4/25/2000, (#1) Usually does not involve a criminal act, Ruthee, 12:21:26, 4/25/2000, (#2) John Ramsey and "This Country", Ruthee, 13:16:32, 4/25/2000, (#3) "Save The Children Advertises On This Site, Ruthee, 13:31:33, 4/25/2000, (#4) ALICE IN WONDERLAND, Ruthee, 14:03:49, 4/25/2000, (#5) BRAVO , Ruthee !, CynAnne, 14:35:04, 4/25/2000, (#6) ruthee, tinky, 14:55:58, 4/25/2000, (#7) Ruthee, sarah, 15:16:16, 4/25/2000, (#8) CynAnne/Sarah/Tinky, Ruthee, 15:23:24, 4/25/2000, (#9) Superb., Holly, 15:31:10, 4/25/2000, (#10) Fascinating as usual., Colorado-an, 15:37:25, 4/25/2000, (#11) Ruthee, Denver, 15:56:05, 4/25/2000, (#12) Ruthee, lecarl, 16:33:20, 4/25/2000, (#13) Lecarl, Ruthee, 07:05:25, 4/29/2000, (#24) Excellent thread, Ruthee,, LurkerXIV, 16:41:53, 4/25/2000, (#14) Ruthee, mary99, 19:57:41, 4/26/2000, (#15) Mary, Ruthee, 07:12:25, 4/29/2000, (#25) Ruthee, mary99, 08:59:14, 4/29/2000, (#26) Mary, Ruthee, 14:33:02, 4/29/2000, (#27) programmed for suicide or , SJ, 21:05:00, 4/26/2000, (#17) The use of the word pure by , SJ, 21:00:41, 4/26/2000, (#16) SJ, Anderson, 21:14:52, 4/26/2000, (#18) Ruthee, kdubois2, 21:47:54, 4/26/2000, (#19) Ruthee, one thing stands out....., sds, 10:52:01, 4/27/2000, (#20) URL Fit to a T, johnlin, 20:37:42, 4/28/2000, (#21) Johnlin, Anderson, 21:16:33, 4/28/2000, (#22) Re; Headstone, johnlin, 04:32:41, 4/29/2000, (#23) ................................................................... "THE SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENCE" Posted by Ruthee on 12:08:12 4/25/2000 Pedophiles and Child Molesters by Mark Gado. I'm going to be posting some clips from this web site and it's links. I'll be underlining portions that I think have the merit to occupy your time for contemplation. The reason I say that is that lately there have been so many forks in the path that most of us don't know where to focus or what to think. Myself included. I'll start with the the Title of this web site and the Title of the Ramsey book. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Davis was not a pedophile" Posted by Ruthee on 12:16:25 4/25/2000 "She was anyone's little girl. She could have been yours, or mine. She had long, dark hair that cascaded down the sides of her head like a waterfall and her friendly face would one day become a familiar sight to millions of Americans. Her name was Polly Klaas, a quiet, unassumig" "But Davis was not a pedophile. Although he had never been arrested for child molestation, he can be characterized as a situational child molester." ............. Sorry, I forgot how to use html to underline here. You'll notice that Davis had ...no history of child molestation. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Usually does not involve a criminal act" Posted by Ruthee on 12:21:26 4/25/2000 "Pedophilia is a psychological disorder that does not require, and usually does not involve, a criminal act. The pedophile might keep his desires a secret. He may never go public or share his fantasies with anyone." ........................... We are reminded over and over that the Perfect Ramsey family has no history of child abuse. There is much more and it gets more haunting. Stay tuned. Out for an errand. Your going to see some family members and some posters coming up. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "John Ramsey and "This Country"" Posted by Ruthee on 13:16:32 4/25/2000 "Other situational offenders see children as a substitute for an adult partner. Although these types of offenders do not harbor a singular sexual desire for children, they may react to a built up sexual impulse or anger, that to them, is irresistible. However, the victim is incidental. His main criterion for a victim is availability. The situational child molester will usually have few victims, sometimes only one, and never repeat the event again. He could be a social misfit or a psychopathic personality who harbors a seething resentment and hostility towards society in general." ............... John Ramsey has a grave concern for "this country" and "this society". The Ransom note expresses distain for the "country" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. ""Save The Children Advertises On This Site" Posted by Ruthee on 13:31:33 4/25/2000 "Some pedophiles believe that they have done nothing wrong and are simply more enlightened than the general public. They feel they are part of a special progressive movement and one day society will come to accept, what they see as, their sacred ritual of adult/child sex." ............................. What is the name of the Poster that we all know who is much more "enlightened on this subject than we. A special progressive movement...yeah right. JonBenet's photograph is also displayed at this site. It is used as an example of what would attract pedophiles. Would JonBenet Ramsey discussion boards attract pedophiles? If you were a webmaster and one of your members continually expressed the opinion that consensual sex between children and adults causes no harm, would you allow them to continue to post on your fourm? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "ALICE IN WONDERLAND" Posted by Ruthee on 14:15:47 4/25/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:15:47, 4/25/2000 Where have I seen that discussed in the past and again recently? ......................... The Internet and Pedophilia Modern technology in the form of the Internet has made interaction between pedophiles easier than in the past. .....He seeks validation through communication with others just like him and finds comfort in the anonymous corridors of cyber space. Pedophiles are just a few clicks away from each other, a vast improvement over the past. Before computers, pedophiles relied on newspaper ads, sex clubs and prison contacts for interaction with others like themselves........ You may notice that a number of these sites utilize language that tends to justify their interests. They attempt to legitimatize their behavior by claiming that sex between adults and the young is "pure", "kind", and "gentle" and utilize other descriptive labels that give the impression they are referring to some saintly endeavor rather than the sexual exploitation of children. ........ This is a fairly recent development, especially on the Internet, where groups of pedophiles view themselves as being persecuted by the rest of society....... It's almost as if they are talking about a political party rather than the sexual seduction of children.......... In 1998, U.S. Customs officials smashed one of the largest organizations of child pornographers ever uncovered. Over 200 suspects were arrested across the world in a strike named Operation Cheshire Cat. The target was an Internet-based organization called The Wonderland Club, whose name was derived from Carroll's Alice in Wonderland, long a symbolic favorite of the pedophilic underworld[1]. The club trafficked in some of the most vile child pornography ever seen including the rape of children..... They also screened live sexual abuse of children to their members. The victims were often member's relatives. ....... The investigation began in 1996 after another pornography ring called The Orchid Club was broken up in San Jose, California. Information gleaned during that case led investigators to England and Western Europe. Undercover agents made repeated attempts to break into the secret society of the Wonderland Club..... But fearful of continued molestation of future victims, police decided to act. In September 1998, U.S. Custom's officials coordinated a simultaneous worldwide raid in 14 countries." .................... You may want to take note that some describe these sexual contacts as "pure." You'll also see that porn contacts are often made with prison inmates. Of course there is the mention of the photos of adults raping children. Where have we heard this in the past? You may also note that some of the "members" submitted photos that included their relatives. We know that a prison inmate was turned into the Boulder authorities as a suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey murder. Who turned in the material. How did they come into possession of it? How did they establish a connection with the inmate? Who turned in a photo that they said showed the rape of a child family member. Did that person have a connection with "Wonderland?" Molestation can't be that bad, especially when a grandmother makes that statement that her granddaughter was "somewhat molested." Does this opinion run in families? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "BRAVO , Ruthee !" Posted by CynAnne on 14:35:04 4/25/2000 Let me be one of the first to congratulate you on your latest insightful piece . The comparisons you make between known cases of abuser ' profiles ' , and the oft-parroted " No history of abuse in the RamFam " are compelling when placed ' side by side ' , in effect . I've read ( and listened to ) many interviews with former F.B.I. profilers like Ressler and McCrary , and their theories run along the same ' lines ' as yours , I believe . And I think you've ' nailed ' Nedra , so to speak - it's almost ufathomable what can be ' kept behind closed doors ' ( especially wealthy doors ) , isn't it ... ? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "ruthee" Posted by tinky on 14:55:58 4/25/2000 very interesting! You always give us so much to think about. One of the strangest comments was the "somewhat molested" comment from Nedra. It really made my skin crawl. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Ruthee" Posted by sarah on 15:16:16 4/25/2000 ..Great thread..as always. I hope you continue to search in this direction. There is so much information that has been locked behind closed doors. Some of the posters on this forum, you included of course, will quietly and steadfastly put together all the little pieces that are needed, and we will make our own keys. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "CynAnne/Sarah/Tinky" Posted by Ruthee on 15:23:24 4/25/2000 Thanks for taking time to read this. You may want to check out the last page of the URL. The signs of the molested child and the molester. http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial/pedophiles/7.htm [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Superb." Posted by Holly on 15:31:10 4/25/2000 Ruthee. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Fascinating as usual." Posted by Colorado-an on 15:37:25 4/25/2000 Ruthee, I have been watching you reveal this today and as usual your work is fascinating. As I have said so many times before JW is so lucky to have so many intelligent minds working here. Thaks Chris for making this possible! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Ruthee" Posted by Denver on 15:56:05 4/25/2000 Ruthee, as always, you present such interesting research. Thanks! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Ruthee" Posted by lecarl on 16:33:20 4/25/2000 Darnay is suing PR for molesting and killing JBR. This fits in with what I thought might have happened. I remember Nedra saying that when PR was in high school she didn't date much because she was busy primping the little girls in the neighborhood and doing their hair. Either PR missed her calling as a hairdresser or there is something weird going on with her. I am always suspicious of anyone who would rather spend their time with young children rather than participate in age appropriate activites. Think about all the coaches & priests & ministers who've been charged with crimes against children. Women aren't exampy from this sort of thing. As a matter of fact, I saw an ad for something that's going to be on soon. I wish I'd written it down. I think it's going to be on the crime station--advertised as "a mother who comitted the ultimate crime against her daughter." And the mother is being interviewed & she says, "It was always just our little secret." I don't know if this is what it's about, but it sounds like it. Can someone tell me when it's going to be on? Or, am I the only one who saw it? I was just flipping thru channels & didn't catch the whole thing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Lecarl" Posted by Ruthee on 07:05:25 4/29/2000 I'm listening to you and your post makes sense to me. I have to admit that it's very difficult for me to accept that Patsy may have been sexually abusing JBR. I didn't say believe, I mean accept. I guess it's deeply rooted in my bias because I'm a woman. I know it happens. I'm at a disadvantage when I consider this aspect of sexual abuse of children. I have considered that the groin and vaginal area was cleaned in a very rough manner because of soiling. If that's true, the person who cleaned JonBenet may have roughly inserted a finger in the same location at a previous cleaning. The person was rough because they were angry with the soiling. My thoughts go back to the 23rd when someone said that JBR was alone on the stairs saying "I'm not pretty. Is it possible that she soiled herself during that party and Patsy cleaned her, telling her that when she did that she was ugly, or that made her ugly. If that did happen then the "chronic" evidence of abuse could have occured at that time with the same rough clean-up as was done on the night of the murder by the same person who cleaned her at the party of the 23rd? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Excellent thread, Ruthee," Posted by LurkerXIV on 16:41:53 4/25/2000 You make several very fine points. You are so right about those posters over yonder who download kiddie porn "for research purposes only". Right! They are the lowest of the low, and they and the Ramseys deserve each other. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Ruthee" Posted by mary99 on 19:57:41 4/26/2000 Well said, Ruthee. The Wonderland Club you mentioned perked my cyber-ears up. In August '98 (if my memory serves, hah!) there was a huge child porn bust in Fort Collins, CO. There was some kind of a standoff with the suspect and when it was over the next day, when the SWAT team or whatever got into his house, he had shot himself dead. He never made it into custody alive, so we don't know the whole story. But his name was linked to this Wonderland Club in the first news accounts...(check Rocky Mountain News archives). And that's why we never got the story out of him possibly; he chose 'self destruct' mode over arrest and prosecution. I found the initial story a few weeks ago while searching for child porn or sex crimes in the Boulder area. In the next few days, 3 or 4 other suspected members of this 'club', in other states, also committed suicide. The 'White Rose' warning that cults send out to cult members is said be designed to trigger a pre-programmed response. Considering the consequences to a child porn ring of a plea-bargain, (i.e. giving up names) it's not surprising that a porn ring would try to set up a fail-proof method to stop a member from giving up info if arrested. Programming sounds insane but it's a practical way of keeping mouths shut at all costs. Suicide can be part of the programming. If the cult is dissatisfied with the behavior of a member, if the cult feels they are a threat, no matter where they are, they can be controlled like a puppet from with a seemingly simple command or phrase, which would be meaningless to the average person. I think the man in Ft. Collins who killed himself may have been a member of such a cult and subject to the same kind of programming. That he would take the easy way out and commit suicide rather than face charges is not remarkable in itself; we know how child molesters are treated in prison, and kiddie porn purveyors must really be in for a rough time. What made me think it was a programmed response was the subsequent suicides of several other suspects in the next few days in other states. That makes me wonder if they were programmed to 'self destruct' if the group was threatened. These were organized cults, or clubs, probably not unlike the group who abused MW. That they would abuse their own family members is another common denominator between the Wonderland Club and the group who abused MW. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Mary" Posted by Ruthee on 07:12:25 4/29/2000 I have a little piece of news that supports your post. Last week while driving I heard a news story of a man that jumped off of a bridge. It's a famous suicide bridge in my area, and it caught my ear. This man was a gardener and was found to be molesting a small boy of one of his clients. He arrived for work and saw the police parked at the residence. He got into his car and drove directly to the bridge and jumped. This supports your post that at least some of these molesters have programed themselves to commit suicide if they are discovered. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Ruthee" Posted by mary99 on 08:59:14 4/29/2000 Yes, that seems very much like a programmed response. That the cops could have been there for another reason would flash through my mind before taking such a drastic step as suicide. These groups that abuse children are doing something repulsive, highly illegal and yet extremely lucrative. That the stakes are high goes without saying--similar to a drug cartel. Perhaps this gardener had taken pictures or videos of the boy to exchange with other contacts. Because he's dead, the police have to search for those contacts or connect him to a ring, without being able to interrogate him. I'm trying to figure out who programs these people? It stands to reason that the primary abusers who have an interest in making money would force the victim to submit to involuntary programming if the secrecy of the activites is to be protected. Then later, they are trained to abuse children as they have been abused. While sexual gratification may part of the motive, I suspect the main reason they do it is money. Kiddie porn has a huge underground network that survives despite all attempts to iradicate it. IMO, after indoctrinating the victims to be abused for profit and gratification of others, they then become the abusers of a new crop of victims when they reach sufficient age. Has the newspaper mentioned anything about this man being connected to a group, or if kiddie porn was found in his home? Have you read the material posted by Ms. Plum re: ghostwolf? This man gives a detailed account of the ritual abuse which included self-destruct programming. I found his whole account to be traumatizing just to read it. OTOH, maybe the man who jumped off the bridge was over-reacting to the embarrassment of being discovered and committed suicide to avoid going to prison. By his immediate response, though, it seems like he must have been involved in a ritual abuse group, though. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Mary" Posted by Ruthee on 14:33:02 4/29/2000 The last I heard they dropped a smoke type device into the ocean so it would follow the current with the body so they could locate him. I haven't heard anything else, other than he jumped. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "programmed for suicide or " Posted by SJ on 21:05:00 4/26/2000 were they murdered by others to keep them from talking? When that huge bust occurred in the late 90's, there were people from all over arrested, including Georgia, Colorado and California. Names that were published then never rang a bell though with this case. But who knows? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "The use of the word pure by " Posted by SJ on 21:00:41 4/26/2000 sexual abusers who see nothing wrong with adult/child sex stood out like a neon light. Doesn't JBR's headstone say something about her being pure? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "SJ" Posted by Anderson on 21:14:52 4/26/2000 Love, Purity and Joy A Gift To Her Family And The World Home In The Peace Of God [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Ruthee" Posted by kdubois2 on 21:47:54 4/26/2000 Another great job! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Ruthee, one thing stands out....." Posted by sds on 10:52:01 4/27/2000 Patsy Ramsey was undergoing treatment for ovarian cancer two years before the murder and we can assume was unable to perform her wifely duties. Therefore, can we summize that she was pushing jbr on JR as a substitute for her? And got jealous when her great idea worked beyond her wildest expectations????? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "URL Fit to a T" Posted by johnlin on 20:37:42 4/28/2000 Ruthee, that URL and the contained information was incredible, especially in light of the terms of "Pure", etc. Anderson, you (I think) live in the Marietta area so I know you have been to the headstone. How many other references were made to her being "with God", an "angel", etc. A little different from when Patsy referred to JonBenet as incorrigible when she was alive. IMO, we have 2 sickos, and JB was caught between the 2. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Johnlin" Posted by Anderson on 21:16:33 4/28/2000 The previous post I made on this thread is what is engraved on the stone that covers the grave. I don't think there's any inscription on the head stone other than her name and the dates. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Re; Headstone" Posted by johnlin on 04:32:41 4/29/2000 That's what I meant (sorry), the flat marble in front of the headstone; the same one that vandals like to do their thing. Keep decorating the Dogwood tree; put one on for me to JB, OK? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]