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Evil Parallels, Brightlight, 20:40:24, 5/03/2000 Thanks Bright, Msracoon, 21:00:03, 5/03/2000, (#1) BrightEyes, lee2, 21:07:21, 5/03/2000, (#2) Bright, lee2, 21:09:56, 5/03/2000, (#3) OMG!, mary99, 21:27:09, 5/03/2000, (#4) lee2, Brightlight, 22:03:51, 5/03/2000, (#5) Bright, lee2, 22:12:29, 5/03/2000, (#6) Oh Yeah - , lee2, 22:15:20, 5/03/2000, (#7) mary99, Brightlight, 22:49:08, 5/03/2000, (#8) What?, Seashell, 23:08:13, 5/03/2000, (#9) Celebrities, lee2, 23:10:45, 5/03/2000, (#10) I had read about Brice Taylor's book, lee2, 23:14:24, 5/03/2000, (#11) Here's an interesting link:, lee2, 23:22:11, 5/03/2000, (#12) bonnaci, maundy, 23:22:56, 5/03/2000, (#13) Maundy, Sharon, 08:44:16, 5/04/2000, (#23) Kristoferson, maundy, 23:27:50, 5/03/2000, (#14) Kristofferson, peel, 00:36:26, 5/05/2000, (#50) Maundy, lee2, 23:36:37, 5/03/2000, (#15) Project Monarch Link, Jade, 00:37:32, 5/04/2000, (#16) Candy Jones, Franklin scandal, Cher, 01:35:36, 5/04/2000, (#17) More on Candy Jones, lee2, 12:41:04, 5/04/2000, (#32) calling the butterfly dreamer, Cher, 01:54:21, 5/04/2000, (#18) this is shocking, dustii, 04:56:22, 5/04/2000, (#20) Unbelievable!, Househazard, 04:44:24, 5/04/2000, (#19) Funding for "Special Projects", Cassandra, 07:54:03, 5/04/2000, (#21) No surprise, Msracoon, 08:12:33, 5/04/2000, (#22) Too Close for Comfort, janphi, 09:17:48, 5/04/2000, (#24) Regarding China Lake, lee2, 10:38:05, 5/04/2000, (#28) Janphi, lee2, 09:53:29, 5/04/2000, (#25) lee2--thank you, janphi, 10:06:12, 5/04/2000, (#26) Janphi , lee2, 10:34:56, 5/04/2000, (#27) thanks again, lee2, janphi, 11:27:22, 5/04/2000, (#29) janphi, Sioux, 11:43:11, 5/04/2000, (#31) Janphi, lee2, 11:37:12, 5/04/2000, (#30) Janphi and Sioux!, gaiabetsy, 12:54:52, 5/04/2000, (#33) Brightlight, Thanks for an Interesting Thread, LurkerXIV, 13:29:46, 5/04/2000, (#34) What a crock!!!!, milo, 18:23:20, 5/04/2000, (#38) "assasins", peel, 00:50:58, 5/05/2000, (#51) The Butterfly & Other, Brightlight, 15:17:07, 5/04/2000, (#35) Well you can believe it or not --, Holly, 17:20:52, 5/04/2000, (#36) This entired topic is , SJ, 17:42:19, 5/04/2000, (#37) Misc., Brightlight, 18:28:57, 5/04/2000, (#39) Brightlight and everybody, janphi, 18:58:45, 5/04/2000, (#40) Another Satanic conspiracy?, milo, 19:00:21, 5/04/2000, (#41) Free the sex slaves!!, milo, 19:03:43, 5/04/2000, (#42) Then there's this, Milo, Brightlight, 19:31:34, 5/04/2000, (#43) Thank you, Brightlight and Morgan, mary99, 19:55:34, 5/04/2000, (#44) Mary99, Sioux, 10:39:48, 5/05/2000, (#57) "who do we turn to then?", peel, 01:02:05, 5/05/2000, (#52) Brightlight, nostradamus, 20:44:08, 5/04/2000, (#45) I don't believe things just because someone wrote them, CommonSense, 20:55:11, 5/04/2000, (#46) No outside influence, janphi, 23:37:56, 5/04/2000, (#47) In the case of , fordie, 07:11:35, 5/05/2000, (#53) Janphi, Milo, Cher, 00:12:38, 5/05/2000, (#49) Cher, Sioux, 10:45:28, 5/05/2000, (#58) Cher, lee2, 08:56:04, 5/05/2000, (#54) If you want to bury your head in the sand , lee2, 23:59:22, 5/04/2000, (#48) Lee2, pip, 10:13:50, 5/05/2000, (#56) Milo..., 7kluz, 09:58:34, 5/05/2000, (#55) nostradamus, Brightlight, 12:01:44, 5/05/2000, (#59) milo, fly, 12:13:11, 5/05/2000, (#60) Do you think this , gaiabetsy, 12:38:39, 5/05/2000, (#61) Gaiabetsy, lee2, 13:02:48, 5/05/2000, (#63) yup, gaiabetsy, pip, 13:01:13, 5/05/2000, (#62) mary99, Brightlight, 13:51:16, 5/05/2000, (#64) Brightlight, lee2, 14:03:00, 5/05/2000, (#65) Janphi your post#47>>>, ayelean, 16:19:23, 5/05/2000, (#66) Brightlight, mary99, 20:02:51, 5/05/2000, (#67) End of thread, SJ, 20:11:38, 5/05/2000, (#68) ................................................................... "Evil Parallels" Posted by Brightlight on 20:40:24 5/03/2000 Please forgive the length of this but it may be important in terms of the similarities between JB, MW and a USG mind controlled, sexual abuse project which originated in the early 1960's using children. I've just finished reading a book titled "Thanks For The Memories: The Truth Has Set Me Free," published in 1999 by Brice Taylor/Susan Ford. Taylor is the pseudonym for Ford. Her story is a horrendous account of her years as a mind-controlled sex slave which began as an infant in CA. From the Preview by Pamela J. Monday, Ph.D: "If the child has survived the initial trials, and if they also prove intelligent but malleable, then if the programming goes right, a very, very small infant that has been conditioned from day one is a powerful weapon, because if you get a mind that early, as anyone knows, you can, 9 times out of 10, I would say, determine the general behaviors of that child and the adult that they will become." Gloria, a former patient and mind control subject. "A shocking personal surreal testimony exposing a level of mind manipulation, psychological trauma, institutionalized evil and covert madness few scientists dare study or therapists know to effectively treat." Leonard Horowitz, author. Sister Joan Marie, Order of St. Benedict, said, "I am edified by the courage, determination and faith that Brice Taylor exhibits in Thanks for The Memories, as she attempts to put an end to the abuse of children and adults. Claire R. Reeves, President, MASA - Mothers Against Sexual Abuse, "Thanks For The Memories is astounding and shocking and is written with incredible clarity. Hundreds of survivors from all parts of the country have told me similar stories of the abuses they have suffered. The courage of this author is nothing short of amazing, as is her journey to reclaim her life. The only way to stop this kind of evil is to expose it lest we too fall victim to the whim of unscrupulous power brokers. Your outrage will keep you riveted while your emotions scream: How could this happen in America? Fords programming related to MKULTRA, a highly classified clandestine program of mind control which Congressional Hearings in the 70's sought to disband. The program simply continued under other titles of which there are hundreds of subprojects. Ford was actually part of PROJECT MONARCH which was begun in the early 1960's. Day care centers and prisons have also been direct targets of PROJECT MONARCH. I have researched the MKULTRA subprojects for the past decade and Project Monarch specifically. After ten years it is still difficult to believe that people have been subjected to such evil and I know that some here with little, if any, knowledge of these projects will simply negate them. That would be most unfortunate as the American public must know the truth. I am not even comfortable in posting this information. But for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear... Parallels between those unwittingly involved in Project Monarch and JB and possibly MW (all quotes are from Fords book): 1) Infants and children are programmed for sexual abuse. Ford was born and raised in CA and was among many female infants entered into the program by her parents at home. Family, friends and neighbors often take part in the sexual abuse of the child. 2) Her mother and father were instrumental in her sexual programming and sexual activities, often handing her over to the perps themselves. Her parents benefited financially although they had also been programmed. 3) As a child, Ford was used as a sexual slave among the rich and powerful throughout the U.S. and internationally. (A status not often accorded other child victims.) 4) "A majority of the victims/survivors come from multi-generational families and are ostensibly programmed 'to fulfill their destiny as the chosen ones or chosen generations' (a term coined by Mengele at Auschwitz)." 5) "There also appears to be a pattern of family members affiliated with government or military intelligence agencies." 6) LOCKHEED: One of the places Ford names as a programming center. As was Disney. 7) "Throughout my formative years, I was molded to be extremely sexual through the sexual abuse with my father and others...Slave Auctions: Elitists in the market attend auctions that appear at first like children's fashion shows and then progress to striptease acts...My father took me to a slave 'model' auction where I wore a fancy white taffeta and black velvet polkadot dress, a hat and matching purse...There was a modeling ramp where all of us children were displayed. I modeled casual clothes, then sophisticated evening clothes and then sensual/sexual attire and, finally, appeared totally naked." 8) As she grew into an older child: "I was taught how to walk elegantly with a book on my head and had to be able to squat down without dropping the book and then stand up again. I was was taught to be 'dignified' and trained in social etiquette; to act polished and to have good manners. I was assigned to work with language input tapes in a small sound room equipped with headphones." 9) "Many of the abused come from families who use Catholicism, Mormonism, or charismatic Christianity as a 'front' for their abominable activities (though members of other religious groups are also involved.) Victims/survivors generally respond more readily to a rigid religious (dogmatic, legalistic) hierarchical structure because it parallels their base programming. Authority usually goes unchallenged, as their will has been usurped through subjective and command-oriented conditioning." 10) "Paul Bonaci, a courageous survivor who endured almost two decades of degradation under PROJECT MONARCH, has disclosed strong corroborating evidence of widescale crimes and corruption from the municipal/state level all the way up to the White House...After thoroughly tormenting the young boys into mindless oblivion, they were used (along with girls) for pornography and prostitution with several of the nation's political and economic power-brokers...The perpetrators took full advantage of these innocent victims, committing unthinkable perversions in order to satisfy their deviant lusts. Some victims WERE APPARENTLY MURDERED...A U.S. District Court recently awarded a $1 million settlement to Bonaci, after years of legal aid from his attorney, John DeCamp." "A former military officer connected to the DIA told Susan Ford, 'In the big picture these people (MONARCH victims) are in all walks of life, from the bum on the street to the white collar guy.'" "The ultimate purpose of the sophisticated manipulation of these individuals may sound unrealistic, depending upon our interpretive understanding of the physical and spiritual realms." Over the past ten years I've met many survivors who had been involved in PROJECT MONARCH. They, down to the last one, were exactly like MW...not one was sensational or wanted to go public. They only wanted the ugly truth to surface. The few who did attempt to go public in order to make the truth known were often ridiculed and belittled by those who were ignorant of the facts of this extremely sensitive, highly classified project. They were also intimidated, harassed, threatened and were made targets of disinformation campaigns by those who insisted they remain in slavery. These victims were also programmed to commit suicide if they ever felt a need to start talking about their experiences. Is this what was meant when we've heard that people will be shocked when/IF the real truth is revealed? Is this why P&J are so arrogant as they know the truth could never be made public? Is this MW's connection and perhaps JB's too? Ford's book details the nearly impossible escape from those who hold their victims in bondage. For anyone who may be interested in ordering the book ($24.95): Brice Taylor Trust P.O. Box 655 Landrum, SC 29356 NOTE: "In order to keep MKULTRA from being easily detected, the CIA segmented its subprojects into specialized fields of research and development at universities, prisons, private laboratories and hospitals. Of course, they were rewarded generously with government grants and miscellaneous funding. The names and locations of some of the major institutions involved in MONARCH programming experimentation were/are: Cornell, Duke, Princeton, UCLA, University of Rochester, MIT, Georgetown University Hospital, Maimonides Medical Center, St. Elizabeth's Hospital (Washington, D.C.), Bell Laboratories, Stanford Research Institute, Westinghouse Friendship Laboratories, General Electric, ARCO and Manking Research Unlimited. The 'final product' was/is usually created on military installations and bases, where maximum security is required. Referred to as (re) programming centers or near-death trauma centers, the most heavily identified are: China Lake Naval Weapons Center, The Presidio, Ft. Dietrick, Ft. Campbell, Ft. Lewis, Ft. Hood, Redstone Arsenal, Offutt AFB, Patrick AFB, McClellan AFB, MacGill AFB, Kirkland AFB, Nellis AFB, Homestead AFB, Grissom AFB, Maxwell AFB and Tinker AFB. Other places recognized as major programming sites are Langley Research Center, Los Alamos National Laboratories, Tavistock Institute and areas in or by Mt. Shasta, CA, Lampe, MO and Las Vegas, NV. "The most publicized case of MONARCH monomania has surfaced through the book TRANCE Formation of America: The True Life Story of a CIA Slave by Cathy O'Brien." "One of the first documented cases of a MONARCH secret agent, was that of the voluptuous 1940's model, Candy Jones. The book, The Control of Candy Jones, portrays her 12 years of intrigue and suspense as a spy for the CIA. Jones, whose birth name is Jessica Wilcox, apparently fit the physiological profile as to be one of the initial experiments or human guinea pigs under the government's 'scientific' project, MKULTRA." [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Thanks Bright" Posted by Msracoon on 21:00:03 5/03/2000 Truly interesting indeed. And the Truth set her free. How very cool! Making note of title and so forth. Thanks again. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "BrightEyes" Posted by lee2 on 21:07:21 5/03/2000 I have read "Trance Formation of America" and I am in the process of reading "The Franklin Cover-up." I, too, was struck by the parallels. Have you read "Trance Formation of America"? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Bright" Posted by lee2 on 21:09:56 5/03/2000 I'm sorry I had your name wrong! I had to log in between reading your message and posting my own and had a blonde moment I guess. Sorry! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "OMG!" Posted by mary99 on 21:27:09 5/03/2000 It's so disgusting that our government has funded these projects, ruining countless lives in the process, for some military advantage. Was the Cold War the reason behind the development of these 'psycho-robots'? Brightlight, the parallels between the MKULTRA 'fashion shows', MW's allegations and JB's 'pageantry' costumes is remarkable. And the USAF bases, and the maximum security clearances, and the multi-generational abuse... Is the FBI involved in this too? MW will never have justice if the CIA can help it. The 1 million dollar award to the abuse survivor is notable, but has anything changed...is it still going on under Clinton, today? Thank you for posting this. I plan to send for the book, it's high time I read it, The Franklin Coverup and Trance Formation of America. What's happening to our country? How will the truth ever come out? Who could believe something this sick exists except those who've lived through it? And who will believe them? PS Does the 24.95 include S&H? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "lee2" Posted by Brightlight on 22:03:51 5/03/2000 > Have you read "Trance Formation of America"? No, not yet. You might also enjoy Walter Bowart's books; Operation Mind Control: Our Secret Government's War Against Its Own People (1978) and Operation Mind Control -- Book I and II. > I'm sorry I had your name wrong! I had > to log in between reading your message > and posting my own and had a blonde > moment I guess. > Sorry! Not to worry, I've been called a lot worse! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Bright" Posted by lee2 on 22:12:29 5/03/2000 "Trance Formation" is mind boggling to say the least. I haven't read the other(s) you referred to. I will be curious to hear of the parallels you may possibly draw after reading "Trance . . . " Thanks for starting this thread. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Oh Yeah - " Posted by lee2 on 22:15:20 5/03/2000 What I wanted to say - in addition - and this is in response to Mary99's post - is this: A & E had an excellent special on LSD a few months ago - including the CIA's part in the experimentation with the mind altering drugs on innocent people - including a scientist - who ended up jumping out a hotel window. Finally - the government settled with his widow - but not until the 1970's (years after this incident occurred). I believe there's a book out on this, too. The CIA and the government can cover up anything in the name of "national security" - because of the National Security Act of 1947. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "mary99" Posted by Brightlight on 22:49:08 5/03/2000 > It's so disgusting that our government > has funded these projects, ruining > countless lives in the process, for > some military advantage. Was the > Cold War the reason behind the > development of these 'psycho-robots'? No, the Cold War wasn't the reason. It was for the purpose of sexual gratification and mind control experimentation. There is a military aspect of PROJECT MONARCH though involving Vietnam vets who were subjected to mind altering drugs and/or electroshock. > Brightlight, the parallels between the > MKULTRA 'fashion shows', MW's allegations > and JB's 'pageantry' costumes is remarkable. > > And the USAF bases, and the maximum > security clearances, and the multi- > generational abuse... And the connection with Lockheed. > Is the FBI involved in this too? No, at least not to my knowledge. However, it was often impossible to know who was doing the programming. Often the victim was told or recognized the person/people involved. The same was true for locations. Sometimes they knew exactly where they were taken, other times their handlers went to the extreme to make sure they were confused and didn't know. > MW will never have justice if the > CIA can help it. If this is what she's involved in then it will be very difficult but not impossible, as Susan Ford and others have proved. Most of all she needs good protection. > The 1 million dollar award to the abuse > survivor is notable, but has anything > changed...is it still going on under > Clinton, today? Yes, it continues. But these projects transcend any elected official. Fords #1 'handler' was Kissinger (mind control) but her actual 'owner' was Bob Hope (sexual). Thus, the books title. She names names. The government names I'd heard before but not the celebrities. > Thank you for posting this. > I plan to send for the book, > it's high time I read it, The > Franklin Coverup and Trance > Formation of America. I don't think you'll regret it but it's a very black place to be. > What's happening to our country? > How will the truth ever come out? > Who could believe something this > sick exists except those who've > lived through it? > And who will believe them? What's happening to our country is another story. Unfortunately. MKULTRA began in 1953 and continues although not under the same name. The truth will only come out when people like us open our minds to it and then take a stand in getting the information out. You've seen how MW was treated. There are many thousands, if not more, who have been subjected to this despicable atrocity for decades. > PS Does the 24.95 include S&H? I'm glad you asked because I had posted what was on the back of the book but checked a little more thoroughly when I saw your question. There's an order form included in the book which says to add $5.00 for shipping (U.S.). A corporate attorney in Conn. who knows I've been researching this subject for years had sent me my copy so I didn't know. Thanks for caring about these people. Maybe we can make a difference. For them and for us. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "What?" Posted by Seashell on 23:08:13 5/03/2000 "Fords #1 'handler' was Kissinger (mind control) but her actual 'owner' was Bob Hope (sexual). Thus, the books title. She names names. The government names I'd heard before but not the celebrities." Hope and Kissinger? Won't she have huge lawsuits on her hands? This part I'm having big trouble believing. Didn't JBR wear a black and white polka dot dress, or was it striped? I'm speechless. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Celebrities" Posted by lee2 on 23:10:45 5/03/2000 Cathy O'Brien named celebrities in her book as well - including Kris Kristofferson. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "I had read about Brice Taylor's book" Posted by lee2 on 23:14:24 5/03/2000 before - but didn't realize it was released. Here is one of the few links I found doing a search tonight on 1Blink: http://www.davidicke.com/icke/temp/brice.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Here's an interesting link:" Posted by lee2 on 23:22:11 5/03/2000 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/UK/This_Britain/2000-04/satanic300400.shtml [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "bonnaci" Posted by maundy on 23:22:56 5/03/2000 Bonnaci's attorney filed civil suits against 16 people involved in the Franklin Coverup. 15 were dismissed. Only King's lawsuit went to trial and a default judgement was entered as King did not send an attorney (he is or was incarcerated in Florence, CO). He filed an appeal but dropped it. That said, it is still an important judgement as it must have had merit to even be heard. Johnny Gosch's mother testified and corroborated Bonnaci's testimony about being present at the kidnapping of her son, whom he later met again at a ranch in Buena Vista, CO. An episode of AMW went to this ranch with Bonnaci in '97. The current owner was not involved in this. The A&E show was about the government mind control projects. The scientist that died was involved in them. Some of what Project Monarch survivors say is a little out there. However, it's not beyond reason to guess that they may have been fed information specifically to discredit them. Of the mind control victims, the ones with "implants" are the hardest for me to believe. Recently I read Edna Buchanan's book "The Corpse had a familiar face". She jokes that Miami has the highest percentage of seniors who think they are being mind-controlled thru radio waves. Sounds like senility, right? Till it occurred to me: what is their percentage of Holocaust survivors? Project Paper Clip brought Nazi scientists to the US to continue their work. Put two and two together. Another thing I have read is that U of Arizona was one of the first facilities to get into this. I think in POS, John says he never went to Phoenix to see Kim Ballard. But he never says he never went to Phoenix. And Patsy's father was also involved in the govt thru the Corps of Engineers. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Maundy" Posted by Sharon on 08:44:16 5/04/2000 Interesting stuff. Just as a point of clarification - The University of Arizona is located in Tucson, not Phoenix. (Arizona State University is the one in Phoenix.) Wondering which school you are actually referring to....thanks. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Kristoferson" Posted by maundy on 23:27:50 5/03/2000 lee2, i think you mentioned this before? I remebered he was a Rhodes scholar. I've heard something about CIA recruiting them. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Kristofferson" Posted by peel on 00:36:26 5/05/2000 ...and kristoferson's father was big military, right....not that I can beleive everthing about this but i do beleive that our gov. is very evil...and I have been saying that for years...another point...in some tin foil hat web sites, you will find people that beleive that Clinton has been an operative for the Cia since his college days..that is why he never was charged with rape when he was in England as a student. research it yourself... Read the book "compromised" about both Bush sr. and clinton and their roles with the cia and drug running....the world is very , very scary. and [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Maundy" Posted by lee2 on 23:37:15 5/03/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 23:37:15, 5/03/2000 I may have mentioned that I found it ironic (after reading "Trance Formation of America") that he played Lou Smit in the miniseries "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Project Monarch Link" Posted by Jade on 00:37:32 5/04/2000 http://www.aches-mc.org/monarch.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Candy Jones, Franklin scandal" Posted by Cher on 01:35:36 5/04/2000 Hmmm. Brightlight, the parallels are astonishing, particularly the part about the black and white slave costume. I read the book The Control of Candy Jones quite a number of years ago. It was a very frightening, interesting book. Candy Jones was a radio personality and also the wife of another NY radio personality, Long John something or other. Nebel? Can't remember the last name but I think that's it. It has been 20 years since I read it. In this book, Candy Jones relates how she worked with the CIA. I believe they used a lot of different drugs on her. Electroshock, too. I know I found the book credible at the time. I would like to go back and re-read it, and I may do that. John DeCamp is both an attorney and a state senator from Nebraska (Nebraska has a unicameral). I do not know him personally, but people close to me know him. I could ask about him. DeCamp was very involved in the investigation of the Franklin mess. I used to have numerous newspaper clippings of the Franklin debacle. It was an incredibly bizarre story. One would just never think such craziness could go on. And in America's Heartland, no less! The stories about the CIA guys who were experimented on were also covered by 60 Minutes and some of the other news shows. I recall seeing the programs. There is also at least one book out about the CIA men and what happened to their lives as a result of these experiments. There is no question whatsoever that this took place. Brightlight, thanks for starting this unusual and scarey thread. It certainly bears some additional reading to see if there are further ties to the JBR case. Cher . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "More on Candy Jones" Posted by lee2 on 12:41:04 5/04/2000 "In 1976 a book by Donald Bain titled "The Control of Candy Jones" was published by Playboy Press. This one- of-a-kind book is the story Candy Jones, who was America's leading cover girl during the forties and fifties. In 1960 Jones fell on hard times and agreed to act as a courier for the CIA. An excellent subject for hypnosis, Jones became the plaything of a CIA psychiatrist who used her to exhibit his mastery of mind-control techniques. This psychiatrist used hypnosis and drugs to develop a second personality within Jones over a period of 12 years. This second personality took the form of a courier who could be triggered by telephone with particular sounds, and after the mission was completed and the normal personality resumed, did not remember anything. These missions were elaborate, and frequently involved world travel to deliver messages. According to the book, Jones and other victims were once even subjected to torture at a seminar at CIA headquarters, as a means of demonstrating this psychiatrist's control over his subjects." to follow the link: http://www.angelfire.com/or/mctrl/mindsecretstate.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "calling the butterfly dreamer" Posted by Cher on 01:54:21 5/04/2000 Read the link from post 16. This stuff is pretty far out. Even for me, and I like to think I can at least entertain ideas that are far out, without necessarily embracing them. Also, scroll to the bottom, and look at the source of this report. There is something really creepy, though, that I found on this link. If you use your "find in page" function and enter this phrase, refers to the monarch butterfly it will take you to the section that discusses the symbolism of the butterfly. Now, just the other day one of our posters had a dream about a butterfly! And it was sort of scarey, eerie dream about the butterfly. Does anyone else remember this? Cher . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "this is shocking" Posted by dustii on 04:56:22 5/04/2000 I find this absolutely horrific, and the similarities are scary. If you go to the site that jade posted the address for, and follow the link at the bottom of the page, there is lots of interesting reading. I have just started to read through some of it, and the nancy drew meets the exorcist link, blew my mind! There is so much happening in the world that we just don't know about. My head is spinning. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL dustii ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Unbelievable!" Posted by Househazard on 04:44:24 5/04/2000 Yet, I believe it. I STILL think the friends of the Ramseys were involved as well as the Ramseys themselves. That psychic, Allison? had mentioned the name Marvin or Martin. Lockheed merged with Martin Marietta. I also believe that part of Lockheed is based out Arlington or Irving, TX. I think it depends on which division of Lockheed you're looking for. My husband used to work for Lockheed. He wasn't white collar or anything, so I don't know if he knows anything about their 'inner' doings. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Funding for "Special Projects"" Posted by Cassandra on 07:54:03 5/04/2000 is tucked away in the funding of various government agencies, some quite surprising, I have read. I think we would all be disturbed and amazed at the sheer scope of it. Be careful of the toes you tread upon. They are not nice people. They have ugly secrets that must remain hidden. Research gone bad, and mad. Cassie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "No surprise" Posted by Msracoon on 08:12:33 5/04/2000 it will be to most, but these publications CAN NOT be located at the Public Library. Wonder why? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Too Close for Comfort" Posted by janphi on 09:17:48 5/04/2000 Well, I would tend to believe Ms. Ford a little more without that long list of celebrities. Sorry, that part is not believable. Otherwise, there is our China Lake Naval Weapons Station link to Macky Boykin to MW. We can take that one from there. Obviously, Lockheed-Martin ties to that one as well as several others we've found--but they do a LOT of things, so that's no biggie. But I will say this about degrees of separation and evil parallels. I casually read a little about the Franklin Cover-Up and Silverado, because I never paid attention to those banking scandals. (Too much thinking involved. Can't figure out who the good players are and the bad ones are.) Well, lo and behold, in a related S&L fraud, which I did know about, there was a long-ago good friend outed as a CIA operative. Sheesh! He died 7 years ago, but it just goes to show how scary this "guilt by association" thing can be. In the story about the same big scandal was one very beloved former boyfriend of mine from long ago and one former close acquaintance of mine. This is why I wanted to be extra-careful what I sleuthed and posted about MW. Couldn't get into chat last night to talk about something I wanted to say and see if it would be OK. Anybody know if it's down? Oh never mind, no one ever answers my questions anyway. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Regarding China Lake" Posted by lee2 on 10:38:05 5/04/2000 I sent my "Trance Formation of America" book to a friend of mine - but I'm fairly certain (if memory serves me correct) that China Lake was mentioned in that book as well. Regarding the celebrities - Cathy O'Brien lists some celebrities as well, including Loretta Lynn. It's difficult to comprehend - and sometimes I think our minds just do an automatic shut-down when things seem too absurd - however, if this stuff is true - that's EXACTLY what keeps it going - the idea that it's too "way-out" to be true - and people will just dismiss it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Janphi" Posted by lee2 on 09:53:29 5/04/2000 Dispelling yet another myth "no one answers my questions" - LOL! I tried to get into chat last night and couldn't either - through Java script or MIRC. I read this morning that this new computer virus can affect Internet Relay Chat - so I'm wondering if that isn't the culprit? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "lee2--thank you" Posted by janphi on 10:06:12 5/04/2000 Thanks for answering! I know I was a little whiney, but I've been working my tail off researching and trying to learn a lot about this case and I'm as frustrated as everyone else. You might be right about the virus; after I read that it affected MiRC as well, I had that little "aha" moment. Sorry 'bout my grumpiness. I don't have much sleuthing time left and I'm just wishing I had a theory in my mind that answered most of my questions. I have one, but it's so far different from the prevailing one that I feel I must be overlooking something very important; just don't know what. Thanks again. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Janphi " Posted by lee2 on 10:39:15 5/04/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:39:15, 5/04/2000 I didn't think you were whining! I hope you didn't take my post that way! I understand your feelings about this - - although I've only taken a 24/7 interest since February 2000 it can become "consuming" to the point of mental exhaustion! I always read your posts - and you have, indeed, done an enormous amount of sluething. Best regards . . . (and good luck with the "I love you" virus!) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "thanks again, lee2" Posted by janphi on 11:27:22 5/04/2000 Just another comment about the believability and unbelievability of some of these stories of prominent people and their double lives. About 25 years ago, when I first met my husband, he had a best female friend whom I got to know pretty well. This particular person--and I want to be kinda careful here--had a job as a consultant with NASA for quite a few years that entailed her entertaining and hostessing events and such for the astronauts' girl friends in the 1960's and early 70's. Not the wives. The girl friends. Mistresses. She had to make all the arrangements for them to go to the Cape separately from the wives, yet with the same amount of VIP courtesy, etc., for the launches. She set up the separate viewing area, totally out of the line of sight of the "other," made the separate hotel arrangements and she was the moderator of the ground communications and telephone from space. Can you believe that? I was in shock when she told me all this and showed me her pix with all of them. I was in my early 20's and I have to say that no matter how "tough" or "worldly" I thought I was before that, I honestly lost my innocence that day. Yet by the same token, whenever the subject of space program nostalgia comes up and I'm around my holier-than-thou sister, if I bring up my little bit of trivia for others, she "pooh-poohs" me and wants to know why I "always dwell on the negative" and says I made this up. Wonder why it threatens her so much? (She's not cute enough to have been one of the astronauts' mistresses, I'm sure of that!) So, yes, I believe some of this, but just not sure about all of it. I feel like it takes a while for really shocking things to sink in, then that becomes the standard and they raise the bar a little to shock even more next time. Then the dance of evil starts all over again. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "janphi" Posted by Sioux on 11:43:11 5/04/2000 Just one word about your story: WOW!!! I do believe it, and I believe that most people with some amount of power have tons of opportunities to enjoy corruption of all sorts. BUT, I wouldn't say ALL of them fall for it, or for all the degrees of corruption they could have been exposed too. I mean, one thing is that a politician falls for an extramarital affair and another thing is that he/she manupilates a world wide child-sex-ring of pornography. But maybe he /she HAD THE CHANCE to do it and said :"No, I'll stick to the good-old fashioned misstress.I'm fine with simple suff. Thank you." Wouldn't that make him/her a monument of nobility? Sioux [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Janphi" Posted by lee2 on 11:37:12 5/04/2000 "(She's not cute enough to have been one of the astronauts' mistresses, I'm sure of that!)" Janphi - thanks for the good laugh! Regarding the astronauts girlfriends - I have no trouble believing that. Most of us are brought up to know "right from wrong" and "good from bad." I think that anything that disputes those basic "truths" that we're comfortable with is subject to immediate "mental" dismissal. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Janphi and Sioux!" Posted by gaiabetsy on 12:54:52 5/04/2000 Yep, I believe it too. You know how athletes in college aren't supposed to get money and cars and other stuff handed to them under the table? Well, when I was in college, it was "a given" that athletes had special priviledges. Geez, they never showed up for class or seemed to take the same tests the rest of us had to take. Why is that? Because they're special. I think some rich and prominent and powerful people feel "special" too, and create their own worlds to live in. Perhaps these worlds include child pornography and sexual encounters with children. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "Brightlight, Thanks for an Interesting Thread" Posted by LurkerXIV on 13:29:46 5/04/2000 You and I, along with MsRac and Mee Too, have believed all along that JonBenet may have been a "special" child, groomed from the start to serve some kind of "elite" group. There are many, many indicators in JonBenet's short life, which closely parallels that of Ford, O'Brien, et al. You have certainly done your homework on this issue (10 years of research), and now I understand why you are drawn to the JonBenet case. I only hope that someone in power can be moved enough to stop this cruel and heartless exploitation of innocent children. I go to the All-Powerful One daily in my prayers for this intention. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "What a crock!!!!" Posted by milo on 18:23:20 5/04/2000 Its hard not to get upset knowing that otherwise intelligent people can be so gullible as to fall for ANY of this mind control and secret child sex slave conspiracy crap! For one, IF our government was that evil, and there really WAS a vast high level secret conspiracy of these proportions, then wouldn't they just send an assassin to eliminate those who become "uncontrollable"? Just the fact that someone is "allowed" to go around selling books and giving speeches to other paranoid loonies should prove there is no conspiracy. Years ago in Sociology 101 we discussed this strange fixation so many people have with "secret conspiracies", and the text book answer - which I believe - is that many people like to think that the world is the way it is because "bad people" are secretly in charge. This is more comforting to them than the very scary thought that NO ONE is in charge. Otherwise, people might have to take responsibility for their actions (or inaction). When you get right down to it there isn't any difference between believing that a secret branch of the government is to blame for the sorry state of the world today, and its the fault of another country, or another race or religion. What's the difference between believing really wacky stories about CIA organized child sex rings led by Kris Kristoferson, Bob Hope, and Henry Kissenger, and believing in a vast secret Catholic conspiracy, or Jewish conspiracy? If you can read a book or webpage put out by some loony fringe group and believe Mason's rule the world, then how is that any different from reading some neo-Nazi propaganda and believing there is a worldwide conspiracy to destroy the white race? If someone can be gullible enough to believe idiotic stories that say any part of our government is performing mind control experiments on children and forcing them to become sex slaves, then that person might be gullible enough to believe something like David Koresh is Jesus. Four hundred years ago some of you people would have been gossiping and passing on the strangest, most unbelievably twisted rumors - and eventually enough gullible people would be roped into believing the same crap, and that's when the ignorant superstitious villagers grab their torches and start burning witches at the stake. After all, if you can believe Bob Hope is a truly evil man - which he certainly MUST be if he controls a group of child sex slaves - then you can believe in just about anything. (It's in a real book, right?! It MUST be true!) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. ""assasins"" Posted by peel on 00:50:58 5/05/2000 You know, I believe that our gov. is evil enough to do these kinds of things, although I hope against hope that it doesn't. Did you ever hear about WACO? Well, did you read that just a couple of days ago the leading infra-red expert who was testifying agaist the authorities at Waco just happened to be found dead...they are investigating and knowing the gov. it will probaly turn out to be one of those funny "suicides"...I heard Mark Furhman say today on the radio that that makes 3 witnesses for the Davidians that have turned up dead...now. do you really blame people for being a wee bit paranoid? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "The Butterfly & Other" Posted by Brightlight on 15:17:07 5/04/2000 "The name MONARCH is not necessarily defined within the context of royal nobility, but refers to the Monarch butterfly. When a person is undergoing trauma induced by electroshock a feeling of light-headedness is evidenced; as if one is floating or fluttering like a butterfly. There is also a symbolic representation pertaining to the transformation or metamorphosis of this beautiful insect; from a caterpillar to a cocoon (dormancy; inactivity), to a butterfly (new creation) which will return to its point of origin. Such is the migratory pattern that makes this species unique." Thanks For The Memories by Brice Taylor/Susan Ford The black budget supplies unlimited money for funding of classified projects. Zero accounting. The book Blank Check scratches the surface of the black budget. Lawsuits? These people are too powerful; they work covertly using disinformation campaigns targeting those who dare go public. They are very successful in smearing people and ruining reputations. The problem in dismissing information simply because it sounds impossible or implausible without first researching the subject is that the opinion is then based on a foundation of ignorance. The several hundred subprojects of MKULTRA are all extreme and appear on the surface to be outlandish. The problem is, these projects did occur and are continuing today. Subjects were all unwittingly involved. Read: Human Drug Testing By the CIA, 1977 Hearings Before the Subcommittee on Health and Scientific Research of the Committee on Human Resources United States Senate September 20 and 21, 1977 Senator Richard Schweiker: "...One of the key statements in the outline of the project [MKULTRA] that has become available to us is that agency sponsorship of sensitive research projects will be COMPLETELY DENIABLE. It appears to me that the agency was overwhelmingly successful in achieving that objective." From the Doctor in charge of human experimentation, Dr. Sidney Gottlieb (also a former CIA agent): "...Research--which much later came to be organized under the cryptonym MKULTRA--was begun in about 1952. Their purpose was to investigate whether and how it was possible to MODIFY AN INDIVIDUAL'S BEHAVIOR BY COVERT MEANS...I was able to contact an officer of the Bureau of Narcotics who had participated first hand in the OSS investigations. With him, I made an arrangement, funded by the CIA, whereby he would COVERTLY administer chemical materials to UNWITTING PEOPLE." And this from another Doctor involved in MKULTRA, Dr. Paul Hoch: "It is possible that a certain amount of brain damage is of therapeutic value." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Well you can believe it or not --" Posted by Holly on 17:22:43 5/04/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 17:22:43, 5/04/2000 but this scenario is absolutely possible. I have never trusted Bob Anderson, the founder of ARCO. He is also the founder of the Aspen Institute and is a BIG player. It wouldn't surprise me if Fleet White Sr, Jr and Ramsey, Paugh and others aren't involved. There won't be any lawsuits by Hope or Kristoferson. If JB was a subject, she never had a chance. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "This entired topic is " Posted by SJ on 17:42:19 5/04/2000 totally bone chilling. I have no doubt this all exists. People in power can do anything they want and make it look like they have done nothing at all. And when someone does try and go public, or expose them, that person is made out to be a lunatic, if even allowed to live. If this kind of think is all connected to JBR, God help us all. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Misc." Posted by Brightlight on 18:28:57 5/04/2000 lee2: > A&E had an excellent special on LSD a > few months ago-including the CIAs part > in the experimentation with the mind > altering drugs on innocent people- > including a scientist-who ended up > jumping out a hotel window. > > Finally the goverment settled with his > widow-but not until the 1970's (years > after this incident occurred). The scientist was Frank R. Olson who died in a 13 story fall in 1953, a week after the CIA had given him LSD. In 1994 his body was exhumed to look for evidence of drugs in his body and for fractures and trauma that cannot be blamed on the fall. James Starrs, professor of law and forensic sciences at George Washington University's National Law Center, headed the team of scientists. > The CIA and the government can cover up > anything in the name of "national security" > - because of the National Security Act of > 1947. The Congressional Hearing held in 1977 on Human Drug Testing would agree. Senator Kennedy said, "In the U.S. the ends never have, and never will, justify the means. Freedom can be eroded by internal excesses, as well as by external threats. The story we will hear in these next two days is of well motivated, patriotic Americans who, by their work, eroded the freedom of individuals and institutions IN THE NAME OF NATIONAL SECURITY." Msracoon: > No surprise it will be to most, but > these publications CAN NOT be located > at the Public Library. Wonder why? For the same reason the mainstream media will never report on these issues. janphi: > Oh never mind, no one ever answers my > questions anyway. I have always thought your posts were very interesting and informative. But I couldn't begin to answer any of your questions because your research is over my head. I'm probably not the only one but it doesn't mean we aren't interested in following your work. Lurker XIV: > I only hope someone in power can be > moved to stop this cruel and heartless > exploitation of innocent children. You may be pleased to know that 'someone in power' has been approached and was already aware of the atrocities detailed in Fords book. And has been taking it very seriously. I'm speaking of JBs case, not in general. No doubt that it must stop but you can see how difficult it is just getting the word out and having it accepted. Which is the very reason most people won't talk publicly. I mentioned JRs powerful connections in email almost two years and was told by that person that they "knew nothing about this sort of thing and weren't interested." How much more protection could evil desire? Holly: > I have never trusted Bob Anderson, the > founder of ARCO. He is also the founder > of the Aspen Institute and is a BIG > player. Isn't it interesting that Elian's new home at Wye River Plantation is owned by the Aspen Institute? Some things never change. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Brightlight and everybody" Posted by janphi on 18:58:45 5/04/2000 Thank you for this thread and thanks for the compliment, BL. I am truly sorry to everyone for being snappish that way. I have taken 6 weeks out of my work to follow this 24/7 and I am my sole support, so I have to quit soon to go back to RL. I know I've taken it too seriously and it is all getting to me. Again, I apologize. I am still in shock over finding out about my friend. He died in October 1992, and my mother was very close to death at the time, and in fact died Nov. 2--a few days later, so when I read a small snippet in the newspaper that Bobby (Robert Corson) had been found dead in a west Texas motel room, it was sort of filed away in my mind for later notation. He had been on his way back to Houston to turn himself in and to testify in his S&L fraud trial. He supposedly had died "of natural causes." He would have been about 44. I remember wondering if it was a heart attack or what, but I felt the paper would have said that. I'm not in touch anymore with any of the friends we had in common. Now, to find out on the 'Net in the readings today that you all posted, that he was a CIA operative is just beyond anything I could have dreamt up as the scenario. I don't know how to find his brother to ask him about it, or even if I would ask him. Ye gods. Still trying to wrap my mind around this, y'all. Whew. I'm speechless. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Another Satanic conspiracy?" Posted by milo on 19:00:21 5/04/2000 What happens when enough gullible, superstitious people start believing in absurd conspiracies: GUATEMALA CITY (Reuters) - A rumor that kidnappers were stealing children to use their hearts in satanic rituals apparently motivated a mob that killed a Japanese tourist and a Guatemalan bus driver in a popular Mayan market over the weekend, officials said on Thursday. The Guatemalan Institute of Tourism (INGUAT) said in a news release that the attack on a group of 23 Japanese tourists on Saturday in the northwestern village of Todos Santos Cuchumatan was caused by "rumors about satanic rituals." The Japanese tourists were shopping and taking pictures in the town's colorful market when they were attacked by angry villagers. Tetsuo Yamahiro, 40, was smashed over the head with a rock and killed. Edgar Castellanos, a Guatemalan tour bus driver, was also killed and his body doused in gasoline and partially burned. "Let it be clear that (the attack) was a confusion caused by a rumor that satanic rituals were going to be performed and that children were being kidnapped to have their hearts stolen," Todos Santos Mayor Julian Mendoza said in the news release. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "Free the sex slaves!!" Posted by milo on 19:03:43 5/04/2000 So, any of you other villagers want to get together and smash a few bricks in Bob Hope's face, then set him on fire and free his poor mind controlled child sex slaves? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "Then there's this, Milo" Posted by Brightlight on 19:31:34 5/04/2000 "Snoops, Sex and Videotape" published in Insight magazine on 9/29/97. This article is about Clinton ordering bugging of his summit guests but the BIG shock involved allegations of underage boys provided as prostitutes. Yep, little boys servicing powerful officials and fulfilling their every perverted desire for days at a time. The reason these sex crimes involving little boys weren't pursued? You got it...NATIONAL SECURITY. Here's one hell of a quote: ". . . . Despite the protestations by FBI agents who uncovered this exploitation, supervisors in the Seattle field office of the FBI -- as well as supervisors and managers at FBI headquarters in Washington -- refused to mount a criminal investigation or support local prosecution. Instead, according to one source, the FBI agents "were told to forget about it" because arresting the men involved with the children "would jeopardize the national-security mission." It's all here: http://www.accessone.com/%7Erivero/POLITICS/ECHELON/apec2.html Go ahead and laugh but do it knowing you've become part of the problem, not the solution, of this hideous crime perpetrated against children and babies. Think about it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Thank you, Brightlight and Morgan" Posted by mary99 on 19:55:34 5/04/2000 You have the links and the in-depth knowledge to support my worst fears. How will this ever end? If we trust the government, and they betray our trust, who do we turn to then? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "Mary99" Posted by Sioux on 10:39:48 5/05/2000 **If we trust the government, and they betray our trust, who do we turn to then?** To ourselves. To read history and get information.To explore the possibility of a real change in this state of things. Sioux [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. ""who do we turn to then?"" Posted by peel on 01:02:05 5/05/2000 Keep your faith in God, surround yourself with your family and friends who have similar values, and try to not be a slave to POP CULTURE, thus insulating yourself....there are some things that are not going to change..I think to live in this world one must try for good, support good vs. evil, but also realize that maybe this world can never be truely good...evil vs. good...that is a subject that really fascinates me. And one more thing...sometimes you will have to turn the tv, the radio talk shows, and computer off and give your mind and spirit a break from some very dstressing world problems. Stay balanced. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "Brightlight" Posted by nostradamus on 20:44:08 5/04/2000 The link that Jade left earlier today had other links that I followed. One of the links talked about children who underwent experimental radiation treatment for 12 minute sessions on their ears, located just a tiny step away from the brain. Now when someone goes to a dentist and has an x-ray done, they are equipped with battlefield equipment and the radiation is only allowed for a brief second. I guess my point is that I was one of those children and it was shocking to see the findings of follow-up studies done on illnesses in the children subjected to the lengthy radiation. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "I don't believe things just because someone wrote them" Posted by CommonSense on 20:55:11 5/04/2000 Listen folks, there are people out there that write and pubish propaganda that is not true. There are also many unstable people who imagine wild secret activites and then write about them as fact. Before we all take off on a UFO, let's keep our wits about us and stick to the facts of JonBenet's death. JonBenet was found dead in her own home and there is virtually no evidence to suggest that her death is linked to anything or anyone outside of her home. There are two people using the media and the public to try to escape justice by making the public and authorities look in any and every direction but theirs. These conspiracy theories and sophisticated plots are red herrings. The answer to the case is simple - we don't need to create an elaborate scene to explain what happened. Let's keep it simple - because that's where the facts lead us. JonBenet was killed by at least one of her parents (Patsy - I believe) and the other one either assisted, has engaged in obstruction of justice or both. I have VERY serious doubts about Fleet White, Bob Hope or any of the other people tossed in the fire, being child abusers. And . . . even if by some chance they are (and again - THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THIS), it doesn't change the fact that Patsy and John Ramsey are the ones involved in this crime. Instead of chasing aliens - we should be working toward getting these two before a jury of their peers. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "No outside influence" Posted by janphi on 23:37:56 5/04/2000 I would tend to agree that the basics of the case are the pieces of evidence found in the home, plus testimony and background. IMO, I just don't feel that this crime happened in a vacuum, for one reason. I have been searching the 'Net for 6 weeks, a little every day, to find out how a garrote is made. What does one look like? Can one be bought ready-made? Are there different kinds? What kind is the one from JB's neck supposed to be? If I can't find this, out of a trillion websites (I'm still looking--I will find one), I just can't figure out how either Ram could just come up with a garrote on the spur of the moment after accidentally killing their daughter. I know that one of them did. I know there was no intruder, because of the lies and obfuscations the Rams have spouted. I want to know the outside influence that caused that garrote to be made so quickly and easily. That means looking in a lot of dark places where this type of info might be found. There is a very real possibility that was presented in the form of the MW. By researching the practices she has experienced at the hands of her perps/perves, I have found exact explanations for the circumstances by which the evidence came to be in the staging of JB's death scene (what we know of it). I want to continue on this path if we can. JR reiterated that the garrote is a sophisticated killing device. I have found knowledgeable references which say otherwise. I hope we can pursue this collectively, wherever it leads. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "In the case of " Posted by fordie on 07:11:35 5/05/2000 "auto-erotic ...whatever...I think the garrotte would be a perfect way for the user to control the amount of pressure required to get the desired result. therefore, any one using this practice as standard daily/weekly ritual, MAY just have one in their home, to use whenever. That is the only reason I can see, that a garrotte would be ready and waiting ...for use...any use. anytime. Otherwise, it would have to be constructed when needed, and that would take ...time. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL fordie ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Janphi, Milo" Posted by Cher on 00:12:38 5/05/2000 Janphi, I, too, would like to reiterate that I have found your posts interesting and I have been following the work and progress you've made. I'm sorry you have to go back to RL. Also, it's incredible how you keep turning up old "friends" in your sleuthing! Milo, not everyone believes this has to be a conspiracy. If you've ever read Escape from Freedom by Erich Fromm, you will know there are principles by which the less scrupulous among us can manipulate others. The operations do not need to be dictated or even put into writing. They are unspoken assumptions. Somehow these sick people find each other. They just do. I don't know how, since thankfully I am not one of them. But there is almost like an invisible force that brings them together and an invisible glue that binds them thereafter. Cher . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "Cher" Posted by Sioux on 10:45:28 5/05/2000 I always liked Fromm too. He was a constant prescence in my formative years. Sioux [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "Cher" Posted by lee2 on 08:56:04 5/05/2000 The book you mentioned by Erich Fromm sounds interesting. Thanks for the lead . . . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "If you want to bury your head in the sand " Posted by lee2 on 23:59:22 5/04/2000 about what may or may not exist - that's one thing. But sometime, when you have a few minutes - look up "The Bohemian Grove" on a metasearch engine (i.e. 1blink - a.k.a. www.1blink.com). We're forgetting one word here - and that's "power" Oftentimes sex crimes aren't about sex - they're about POWER. Using children in pornographic photographs with a drunken politician isn't just about sex - it's about blackmail and power. Better yet, follow the trail someday of people who have mysteriously died in the pursuit of the truth. This isn't just about JonBenet. This is about people who are abused in the pursuit of financial gain and power by others, seemingly more cunning, who seek only to control. I, for one, am not going to hang my head in shame because someone else doesn't agree with my beliefs. What makes one theory more ludicrous than the next where this murder is concerned? It seems to me that after three and a half years everyone is still scratching their collective forehead at the blackboard anyway. I'm relatively new to this discussion group - but I have done my own research in an attempt to back up what may or may not be true. I pay my taxes, don't wear camouflage and have never owned a firearm. I've never been abducted by aliens and haven't taken any survivalist courses. I consider myself a realist - and when you start to hear the same things over and over again it doesn't hurt to at least pay attention. I may live eight blocks from the beach - but I rarely find my head in the sand. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "Lee2" Posted by pip on 10:15:11 5/05/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:15:11, 5/05/2000 Thanks for your post. It's a good reminder that none of us "own" the truth - and some activities are outrageous by design, so as NOT to be believed. I don't know the truth - but I am learning to look at things that may seem too offensive to consider. Many didn't believe the Halocaust wasn't really happening, either. In fact, there are some who still believe it never happened. Our denial may protect us as individuals, but it is a powerful tool for those who get away with atrocities. I feel an obligation to consider outrageous - even ridiculous - possibilities before I discard them. That's just me. I have a long personal history of resentement toward abuse of power, particularly power used to hurt innocents. Whether or not these acts are at play in the Ramsey case is not what concerns me - they go on under our noses, and in our denial we are complicit. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "Milo..." Posted by 7kluz on 09:58:34 5/05/2000 go ahead and stick your "head in the sand". If you don't believe that our government could be so corrupt, you are in denial. These sort of things are done with regularity. Don't kid yourself. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "nostradamus" Posted by Brightlight on 12:01:44 5/05/2000 > The link that Jade left earlier today > had other links that I followed. One > of the links talked about children who > underwent experimental radiation treatment > for 12 minute sessions on their ears, > located just a tiny step away from the > brain. Now when someone goes to a > dentist and has an x-ray done, they are > equipped with battlefield equipment and > the radiation is only allowed for a brief > second. I guess my point is that I was > one of those children and it was shocking > to see the findings of follow-up studies > done on illnesses in the children > subjected to the lengthy radiation. Good heavens, nostradamus, that's incredible. I would like to talk to you more about this but I don't have a generic email address, do you? Very, very interesting. Thanks for sharing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "milo" Posted by fly on 12:13:11 5/05/2000 Just saw your earlier post. Excellent. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "Do you think this " Posted by gaiabetsy on 12:38:39 5/05/2000 "hiding one's head in the sand" and refusing to see the truth is genetic? I mean, maybe it's some crazy "take" on the coping mechanism we're all "hard-wired" with. I mean, think about all those pioneers crossing the expanse of country with few belongings and only a promise of something better. They found a way to stay alive, which means they kept their minds occupied some way or another to get through. Anyone in a cult or sex ring must have a little bit of this going on - delusion. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "Gaiabetsy" Posted by lee2 on 13:03:58 5/05/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:03:58, 5/05/2000 Your post reminded me of that story about the prehistoric fish that was discovered somewhere off the coast of Africa (I believe). Scientists wouldn't believe it - because they didn't have "proof" - but if I recall the story correctly - these local villagers had been fishing for - and catching - this particular variety of fish (thought to be extinct) for years. We expect the "proof" to be presented to us on a silver platter. If it isn't in the newspaper - or on the news relayed from someone we "trust" - it just isn't "so." However, those skilled at deception have a lot to lose - and a lot of money behind them. Silencing the "truth" is priority two for them (right after priority one - which involves garnering more and more power and money). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "yup, gaiabetsy" Posted by pip on 13:01:13 5/05/2000 I think it's an adaptive mutation - and WE are the pioneers in your analogy! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "mary99" Posted by Brightlight on 13:51:16 5/05/2000 > You have the links and the in-depth > knowledge to support my worst fears. > How will this ever end? > > If we trust the government, and they > betray our trust, who do we turn to then? Excellent question, mary99. Knowledge is power. IMO we're in this mess because of a number of reasons, not the least is blind trust...which is just that, blind. Our society in general has been subjected to subliminal programming through television, radio, movies, videos and now the internet. Most people are apathetic which is the goal of those in control. Mind control has not been the primary area of my research the past decade+, however, it was shocking when I realized I often had to order books and documents from other countries in order to get information because those very items were banned in this country. We're one of the few countries in the world where censorship is alive and well...and most are oblivious of that fact. Our publishing houses were bought long ago, as was network media. When I want real news I listen to the BBC on shortwave. I very rarely watch TV because of the subliminal programming. "My" area of activism are POW/MIAS. Yet people still believe the government line/lie that they all returned in 1973 when Nixon went on network news to announce "all POW/MIAS are home." Few knew that those 591 returnees brought names of others who they had left behind in captivity only a few days before. Yet, that information remains classified. National Security, you know. I have worked directly with former intelligence officers, Special Forces and SEALs who have spent years on the ground in SE Asia gathering their own intelligence on the locations and idenities of those who were abandoned, doing the job the USG/military have refused to do. There are 572 Americans in Laos who are waiting to return home from the war. And there are several hundred more in Cambodia and Vietnam. These aren't just names and suppositions, we have done our own DNA on these men; have hand written letters from them, hair samples, blood samples, photos and videos. Yet the vast majority of Americans simply sit back listening to the spoon fed media and accept the government line/lie that these men are all dead. Or the government line/lie on various other issues. That way no one has to take responsibility and actually DO something to right the wrongs. I get calls from European journalists from time to time doing updates on POW/MIAS still alive in communist captivity. They always marvel at how Americans are the only ones who don't know the truth. And perhaps the worst part is that the U.S. first began abandoning American servicement in communist captivity in 1917 at Arch Angel, Russia. It's continued after every war of this century. We still have American POW/MIAS in captivity in Iraq, Bosnia and Somalia. AND, IF this horrendous cycle isn't broken...whose family is next? YOUR husband, brother, grandson? God help. The disinformation campaigns from our own government against the POW/MIA movement, in general, have been highly successful. Although I've never been part of the movement, nor have I belonged to any of the organizations. The families of these abandoned men have been made to appear "emotional and distraught," therefore, they aren't to be believed. It is imperative that we all work to restore our country to one of health. Pick a cause and research it indepth, arming yourself with knowledge. Other doors will open in the process and it will offer an education that no institution of higher learning could ever give you. And the truth will set you free...after it makes you madder than hell. An older "former" CIA operative once told me, "The people in this country are in the process of being taken hostage and they don't even know it." In the past few years he's changed that to, "The people in this country HAVE BEEN taken hostage and they don't even know it." Whether it's mind control...sexual abuse of children AND adults...our voting process...health/disease...POW/MIAS...or a multitude of other issues...choose one and research it indepth. It will take several years just to bring yourself up to speed. Most aren't willing to make that sacrifice. Another former intelligence officer told me, "Reality is not what it seems." Pretty scary, isn't it? Brightlight [CIA codeword for POW/MIAS during, AND AFTER, the Vietnam War.] [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "Brightlight" Posted by lee2 on 14:03:00 5/05/2000 after reading your latest post - I assume you've read what Ross Perot kept running up against when he went to Viet Nam to look into the POW/MIA situation . . . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "Janphi your post#47>>>" Posted by ayelean on 16:19:23 5/05/2000 I found very interesting. This 'complicated' killing tool the garrote is not pictured on the 'net. Someone had to make it look like what they heard it looked like. HHMMmmmm. The knots on the picture I saw, reminded me of something you might see in macrame (note I can't make that little mark over the e). I wonder if the woman who loved words that have that little mark to frenchify a word, would have had an affinity for macrame? If you follow 'oscam razor' or the K.I.S.S. method of examination of evidence, then PR gleaning info from MW is very logical. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "Brightlight" Posted by mary99 on 20:02:51 5/05/2000 Thank you for your detailed posts and followups. You've put a lot of effort into explaining the 'big picture'. Conspiracy theorists unsettle the general public because they peel back the layers which cloak the dark truths of modern life. Of course fiction writers like Grisham, Ludlum and Clancy all borrow extensively from the model you have illustrated, but while they may fascinate us, and try to raise our collective consciousness, they are still writing fiction. Your shocking assertion that POW's and MIA men are alive and unwell in Viet Nam, Laos and Cambodia has devastated me. I literally cried to think that we, the American public have been fed a pack of lies for years, and as we now talk of 'revisiting Viet Nam' my heart aches to think of the betrayal of our trust which we as a country have permitted by our collective wish to let it all 'slip/slide away', into the forgotten past, in our quest for a new, (brighter) day dawning. I have read all the recent posts which criticize this train of thought as paranoid and gullible (in my words), and irrelevant to the case of JBR, and I just want to say this to the naysayers: * Many who believe the Ramseys are guilty, also believe they remain unindicted due to strings pulled behind the scenes, from day 1 Many who think the Ramseys are guilty... * also think JR's connection to Lockheed Martin and his Gov't security clearance raise a red flag re: influence * also think that John Douglas and Lou Smit acted improperly and unethically if not illegally * also think the failure to appoint a special prosecutor is a miscarriage of justice Is this not the hallmark of a Government conspiracy? To apply 'occam's razor': doesn't it make more sense that the Ramseys were protected from prosecution if JR was involved in the training of his daughter for prostitution and pornographic exploitation as part of a top-secret program?. Even his marriage to a beauty queen, fits into the big picture of breeding for beauty (PR) and brains (JR). (Not that PR is beautiful, but she knew the 'how to', and was willing, to manufacture a 'product'-- which she did sucessfully up to JonBenet's untimely demise.) I think PR was a real 'Patsy' and never knew the real agenda till it was too late...leaving the question of 'Did she kill JonBenet or not?' still up in the air. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "End of thread" Posted by SJ on 20:11:38 5/05/2000 Go to part 2 please. Thanks! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]