Justice Watch Discussion Board [ JonBenét Ramsey Discussion ] [ Missing & Exploited Children and True Crimes ] [ Front Porch ] [ Work Out Room ] "Steve Thomas on LKL Thursday 5.4.00" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Steve Thomas on LKL Thursday 5.4.00, LizzieB, 10:36:53, 5/04/2000 Judging from the big , gaiabetsy, 13:10:00, 5/04/2000, (#1) Please..., Byron, 13:36:21, 5/04/2000, (#2) I'm told that...., mame, 13:47:36, 5/04/2000, (#3) A LKL without Lin Wood?, lee2, 14:31:56, 5/04/2000, (#4) Huh?, eedayspa, 15:28:26, 5/04/2000, (#5) Whoa mame,, Colorado-an, 16:30:16, 5/04/2000, (#6) Dershowitz, maxi, 17:18:04, 5/04/2000, (#7) Cat fight!, Ribaldone, 18:29:54, 5/04/2000, (#9) Whoa there - it's Ben Thompson, mother, 18:29:06, 5/04/2000, (#8) OH NO! NOT AGAIN!, Bobby, 18:45:43, 5/04/2000, (#10) now that's strange !, Cher, 18:52:33, 5/04/2000, (#12) Steve..., AutumnBorn, 18:51:36, 5/04/2000, (#11) Hunter is Very Defensive & Angry, straykat2, 18:58:15, 5/04/2000, (#14) Autumn, Bobby, 18:54:10, 5/04/2000, (#13) when alex first started, lecarl, 19:08:16, 5/04/2000, (#19) Corruption and Collusion?, straykat2, 19:01:59, 5/04/2000, (#15) I sure hope there are other qualified candidates, mother, 19:12:29, 5/04/2000, (#21) Durn!, maxi, 19:11:04, 5/04/2000, (#20) Maxi, lee2, 09:16:17, 5/05/2000, (#64) It's About Politics, Not Justice, straykat2, 19:06:58, 5/04/2000, (#18) Physics tomorrow., Ribaldone, 19:06:17, 5/04/2000, (#17) OH NO, Ribalone - not physics!, mother, 19:53:29, 5/04/2000, (#30) Physic/Psychic, lee2, 09:18:07, 5/05/2000, (#65) You're right, Bobby..., AutumnBorn, 19:05:53, 5/04/2000, (#16) Four-Square, Lacey, 19:35:06, 5/04/2000, (#29) It could have been worse......, sabrina, 19:58:25, 5/04/2000, (#32) Great show, Greenleaf, 19:22:37, 5/04/2000, (#26) Ben's E-mail address, Faith, 20:54:01, 5/04/2000, (#39) Hey, Buddy...you won't need the cuffs...:), Ajila, 19:20:34, 5/04/2000, (#24) the Cardinal in NY, lecarl, 19:17:39, 5/04/2000, (#22) :-(, Seashell, 19:32:09, 5/04/2000, (#28) Patsy's pubic hair plucking!, Holly, 19:20:18, 5/04/2000, (#23) Ben Thompson Said Something......, straykat2, 19:25:29, 5/04/2000, (#27) YES, HOLLY!!, Sharon, 09:47:04, 5/05/2000, (#72) Views on the LKL, Ryder, 19:22:28, 5/04/2000, (#25) I counted, Real Stormy, 19:57:31, 5/04/2000, (#31) Well, lake, 20:11:24, 5/04/2000, (#33) Speaking of the other side..., Kaethe, 21:35:26, 5/04/2000, (#44) No K, lake, 22:32:53, 5/04/2000, (#48) You have to be kidding, lake, Kaethe, 04:39:57, 5/05/2000, (#52) Wrong show Lake, Cutter, 07:44:01, 5/05/2000, (#58) LKL, Aurora, 20:27:32, 5/04/2000, (#35) Hunter said...., rose, 20:13:55, 5/04/2000, (#34) Could be, Gemini, 20:30:44, 5/04/2000, (#36) Rose, Aurora, 20:31:55, 5/04/2000, (#37) What do they think about when they wake up?, CommonSense, 20:39:54, 5/04/2000, (#38) Thompson and Dershowitz, maxi, 21:00:15, 5/04/2000, (#40) strangled..., rose, 21:17:58, 5/04/2000, (#41) OR, Holly, 21:27:28, 5/04/2000, (#42) U R so right, Rose., listener, 21:56:58, 5/04/2000, (#45) Thank you commonsense, Faith, 21:32:20, 5/04/2000, (#43) Rose, Gemini, 22:03:30, 5/04/2000, (#46) Heh ... CommonSense,, Slinky, 22:20:51, 5/04/2000, (#47) Ben & Steve, lake, 22:44:00, 5/04/2000, (#49) Lake, I totally agree!, v_p, 07:37:13, 5/05/2000, (#57) V-P, lee2, 09:28:10, 5/05/2000, (#67) Well, lake,, Ev, 23:36:01, 5/04/2000, (#50) follow the rules, pinker, 04:13:29, 5/05/2000, (#51) What if is was, Househazard, 05:47:17, 5/05/2000, (#54) A Real Case with Similar Charges, Andrea, 09:00:57, 5/05/2000, (#63) Dersh and Alex..., Byron, 05:31:58, 5/05/2000, (#53) Does anyone else, Real Stormy, 06:27:43, 5/05/2000, (#55) Real Stormy, lee2, 09:30:50, 5/05/2000, (#68) Let's make a deal!, Greenleaf, 07:48:43, 5/05/2000, (#60) Greenleaf-Payroll, Bobby, 10:18:15, 5/05/2000, (#76) Oops, Honey, I shrunk the kid, lee2, 09:34:08, 5/05/2000, (#69) I remember, fly, maxi, 07:48:13, 5/05/2000, (#59) my 2 cents worth, fly, 07:20:25, 5/05/2000, (#56) Then Ante Up!, Lacey, 08:00:26, 5/05/2000, (#61) Dershowitz, Starling, 08:19:31, 5/05/2000, (#62) Andrea--your illustration was, fiddler, 09:37:28, 5/05/2000, (#70) Aurora & Cutter, Ryder, 09:25:59, 5/05/2000, (#66) Great post Ryder, Bobby, 10:25:11, 5/05/2000, (#77) Ryder, kdubois2, 09:53:29, 5/05/2000, (#75) Damn that Greta!, vic, 09:50:50, 5/05/2000, (#73) Ryder, Greenleaf, 09:41:20, 5/05/2000, (#71) Ryder--I agree with, fiddler, 09:53:01, 5/05/2000, (#74) yes, Seashell, 10:51:29, 5/05/2000, (#80) Fiddler, Ryder, 10:49:13, 5/05/2000, (#79) street smarts vs. pedantic displays, Cher, 10:48:11, 5/05/2000, (#78) ................................................................... "Steve Thomas on LKL Thursday 5.4.00" Posted by LizzieB on 10:36:53 5/04/2000 According to the CNN web page, Steve Thomas is scheduled to be on Larry King Live tonight (Thursday). No other guests are listed. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Judging from the big " Posted by gaiabetsy on 13:10:00 5/04/2000 question Larry asked the Rams about polygraphs, maybe he'll solicit something new and interesting from Steve. Just when I think LK is becoming a senile old fool, I have to be honest and say he passes the test time and time again about interviewing people and getting them to reveal themselves. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Please..." Posted by Byron on 13:36:21 5/04/2000 ...DO NOT count on this, but I could swear I heard Boyles saying BOTH Steve Thomas AND Alex Hunter were going to be on show DEBATING. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "I'm told that...." Posted by mame on 13:47:36 5/04/2000 Alex Hunter, Steve Thomas and Deshowitz will be on LKL. And possibly, Ben Thompson... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "A LKL without Lin Wood?" Posted by lee2 on 14:31:56 5/04/2000 Say it isn't so! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Huh?" Posted by eedayspa on 15:28:26 5/04/2000 Verrrrrry interesting.....I wonder who from Ram Camp will push their way one......Wood? Pam? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Whoa mame," Posted by Colorado-an on 16:30:16 5/04/2000 That could be quite a show! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Dershowitz" Posted by maxi on 17:18:04 5/04/2000 will be there to say there isn't a good case against the Ramseys. But I have gotten the distinct impression from the way he said things in earlier interviews that he thinks the Ramseys probably did it anyway. Of course, DOI may have changed his mind. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Cat fight!" Posted by Ribaldone on 18:29:54 5/04/2000 Whoa Nelly . . . This is getting down and dirty. Steve's doing great, holding his own. Greta's the moderator. She's doing ok. The Rams aren't on so she doesn't have any butts to kiss. Back on. Gotta go. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Whoa there - it's Ben Thompson" Posted by mother on 18:36:28 5/04/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:36:28, 5/04/2000 STEVE, Hunter and Dershowitz (SP) - Thompson said he knows who killed JonBenet and that there should be an arrest. Greta is standing in for LK - looks like there could be fireworks between Hunter and Thompson. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "OH NO! NOT AGAIN!" Posted by Bobby on 18:50:28 5/04/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:50:28, 5/04/2000 A LAWYER JOKE IS COMING ON AGAIN! Steve Thomas is hanging in there but AH, AD, GVS are all doing their lawyer thing. Hope BT gets some back up from Boulderites, seems Guv dropped this thing. What do you guys feel? Q. What do you call 50 Lawyers handcuffed together in a sinking boat? A. A start. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "now that's strange !" Posted by Cher on 18:52:33 5/04/2000 Ribaldone--how strange that you should post about the "cat fight." I turned it on and just as Hunter was getting testy, a real live cat fight broke out outside. I had to leave to look for Mitzi and I missed the LK exchange. Wahhh! Cher . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Steve..." Posted by AutumnBorn on 18:51:36 5/04/2000 take the Vashon/Seattle passenger only ferry and I'll pick you up at the dock... He's coming for me. I just know it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Hunter is Very Defensive & Angry" Posted by straykat2 on 18:58:15 5/04/2000 It has just been revealed that Alex Hunter has NEVER prosecuted a murder case. What has he been doing in the DAs office for 28 years? Golfing? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Autumn" Posted by Bobby on 18:54:10 5/04/2000 I am jealous but I hope your right! Get the down comforter ready and hope for a power outage on that island of yours. Tell the others how common they are and how you really need the fireplace. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "when alex first started" Posted by lecarl on 19:08:16 5/04/2000 he tried to convict a woman for marijuana. His case was thrown out while he was standing there reading a law book, trying to figure out what to do. (I think this is in ST's book) he also tried one other case & got his ugly butt kicked & never tried another one I LOVE BEN. He's very good. In fact, he's great and he really insulted Alex a few times. AH tried to laugh his way thru the whole thing, meanwhile putting everyone else down, esp. ST, who doesn't jump in to defend himself(?) Ben said, "Alex is laughing. I don't think there's anything funny about a dead child. btw, I've alwats watched the R's close for signs of lying, esp. JR because I know she's lying, but I missed the interview on BOP, saw part of it tonight & JR said said, "We know it was an intruder," AND HE SWALLOWED immediately--he's lying. He knows it isn't an intruder. I think PR is blackmailing him into saying she'll blame Burke if he turns her in. Ben is great. I wish I lived in Boulder so I could vote for him. He'll have the last 50 votes he needs tomorrow so he can get on the ballot. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Corruption and Collusion?" Posted by straykat2 on 19:01:59 5/04/2000 Has Hunter been in collusion with defense attorneys all these years and is that how Hal Haddon and other defense attorneys have built their reputations? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "I sure hope there are other qualified candidates" Posted by mother on 19:12:29 5/04/2000 running for Boulder DA. As much as I would love to see a DA with the guts to prosecute, the evidence to convict has to be there, too. IMO, Ben Thompson knows that everyone wants justice for JonBenet, and he will focus on that issue for his campaign. I'd like to hear about his qualifications for running. I once ran for Probate Judge in our county (everybody should get involved once in their lifetime), and Thompson better have another issue besides JonBenet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Durn!" Posted by maxi on 19:11:04 5/04/2000 I missed the whole second half because I had to pick up my daughter at dance. I'll have to catch the replay at midnight. Speaking of cat fights, was Hunter being catty or what? I was completely unimpressed with him -- and I've defended him in the past. Rookie homicide detective indeed! What do you call a prosecutor who's never prosecuted a homicide? What's below a rookie? Did anyone ask Derschowitz if he had thoughta detective who quit and carried the entire case file over to the primary suspects (as well as Newsweek) to be as damaging to the justice system as a detectives who writes a book? I was trying to call in to ask him that. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "Maxi" Posted by lee2 on 09:16:17 5/05/2000 "what's below a rookie?" a wanna-be rookie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "It's About Politics, Not Justice" Posted by straykat2 on 19:06:58 5/04/2000 Hunter talks about how he has a whole team of lawyers who agree with him about this case. Yep, and they all have the same political alliances. It's about politics in Boulder and Denver, not justice. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Physics tomorrow." Posted by Ribaldone on 19:06:17 5/04/2000 Tomorrow night LKL will host some reknowned physics. They're going to help some people try to contact loved ones. Could be interesting . . . . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "OH NO, Ribalone - not physics!" Posted by mother on 19:55:37 5/04/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:55:37, 5/04/2000 I don't think I could stand a physic - have you ever had a physic? Also known as an enema - right up there with Patsy's pubic hair plucking - perhaps we are talking about psychics. LOL - don't get mad, I'm just giggly tonight. See, I can't even type - Ribaldone, although I kinda like Ribalone - pronounced "rye baloney" - ok, enough silliness, I'm going to bed. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "Physic/Psychic" Posted by lee2 on 09:18:07 5/05/2000 I'm LOL right now - my grandmother used to take her "physic" ever few days and when she would come to visit my mother would make my father (his mother) clean the toilet after she left. Haven't thought of that word for years! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "You're right, Bobby..." Posted by AutumnBorn on 19:05:53 5/04/2000 Power outages all the time. I've got some dry wood inside waiting. Nothing in e-mail yet, but he's going to contact me soon. I feel it. Steve, you won't need the cuffs. I'll come along quietly...LOL [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Four-Square" Posted by Lacey on 19:35:06 5/04/2000 God. Larry, Wolfie, ANYBODY but GRETA, puhleeeeeeez!!!! Steve Thomas is doing his best but I believe he was outnumbered, lol. He's been pretty consistent throughout The Book Tour and I am glad he challenged "Mr. Hunter" on the issue of probable cause. My opinion, Thomas wouldn't have pushed if he didn't already know the answer. Hunter stammered that "that's not the issue," (bool sheet), but I take that as a yes. Thomas is coming off like the typical whistle-blower whom everyone tries to discount. There's no avoiding it. From Serpico to Erin Brokovich (lol), nobody wants to take them seriously but it takes guts and mettle to take the heat when you know you are right. Dersh. talks about rumor and innuendo, and I don't see how he can justify that when the Thomas book is fairly forthright and provides documentation (if not an index!) to support assertions and allegations that really, I mean come on guys, we've been hearing about this shit in the onlines for years, it is not news, and Thomas covers it all pretty well. This is what happened, how, and why. I kept wondering where Dersh. was wandering with the Lot and Sodom & Gomorrah analogy, he just drifted off.. He was trying to illustrate a point about letting ten criminals go free to avoid condemning one innocent person. You know what, Lot went past TEN. Lot asked God what if there was ONE RIGHTEOUS PERSON in that land, would God spare the city, and God said YES. But there wasn't. There was not one righteous person in all of Sodom & Gomorrah, and the city was destroyed. Pretty shitty analogy if you ask me. Besides God was probably humoring Lot anyway, He knew the city wasn't worth saving. Oh, am I rambling? Ben what's-his-name is nutz. LOL Lacey . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "It could have been worse......" Posted by sabrina on 19:58:41 5/04/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:58:41, 5/04/2000 Jerrilyn could have been on too. UGH!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Great show" Posted by Greenleaf on 19:22:37 5/04/2000 Ben: Strong and positive; got in a few licks to Alan. His best retort to Alex: "This is not funny. A child has been murdered." (papaphrasing) Steve: Probably the best I've seen him yet. Held his own with Alan and Alex. Said it was funny that Alex wouldn't appear without Alan. Alex: Very angry and sad; looked and sounded like he was going to self-destruct any minute. I'm impressed with old Ben. He is going to be a force to be reckoned with. Good luck, Ben. Does he have an email addy? Anybody know? Greta did o.k.; nothing to write home about. I was sorry Larry wasn't there. I think he would have done better. It's so obvious that Alex and Alan are two peas in a pod. They both make me sick. Their appearance together was, imo, a set-up; prearranged to knock down Ben and Steve. Well, they didn't succeed. They made Ben and Steve look better than ever. Greenleaf [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Ben's E-mail address" Posted by Faith on 20:54:01 5/04/2000 bwthompson@earthlink.net [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Hey, Buddy...you won't need the cuffs...:)" Posted by Ajila on 19:20:34 5/04/2000 >Steve, you won't need the cuffs. >I'll come along quietly...LOL I am so tempted to make a bad joke here, lol. :) ahem, yes, the show was good tonight. Actually, I really liked some of Ben's comments. I felt I understand the lawyering part better from both sides. They usually have defense attornies on these shows it seems like, and I'm always left with the feeling there is no case. But, duh, that's what they are trying to make me think. Ajila [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "the Cardinal in NY" Posted by lecarl on 19:17:39 5/04/2000 who died yesterday had been taking chemo treatments for brain cancer. His face was swollen & he didn't have any hair on his head, eyelashes or eyebrows. According to PR, she was taking experimental drugs that were even more powerful than the ones the Cardinal was talking. I once said I don't think PR had cancer--now I'm going to say she wasn't even taking chemo treatments--if she was flying across the country puking her guts out, maybe she was being treated for drug addiction--that'll make you puke, too. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. ":-(" Posted by Seashell on 19:32:09 5/04/2000 Actually, I thought they all sounded like a**es; BT and ST becuz they claim they know who did it (and neither one has a clue as to how MW MIGHT fit into this case) and AH and AD becuz they always look and sound like a**es. ST's theory is weak and silly and BT's announcement that everybody knows who did it and he'd make an arrest by Jan. is presumptuous. AD kept bringing up the fact that JR is not included in this PR as perpette theory and he's right. That said, I hope BT is elected and arrests somebody for something soon. I don't know if his strong arm tactics are legal or even smart but I'd like to see those 2 sweat. JR was harping on his intruder in the house for hours speech again. Why don't these moderators learn something and listen better? They should have played the clip right after that little speech when he said that some pervert came in while they were sleeping. Which is it, JR? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Patsy's pubic hair plucking!" Posted by Holly on 19:20:18 5/04/2000 What an image! She cried and cried, wondering how nasty people could possibly say she wasn't cooperating. Pluck! Geez Louise -- I would have cried because it was happening as a result of my daughter being murdered. But it's all about Patsy, Patsy, Patsy... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Ben Thompson Said Something......" Posted by straykat2 on 19:25:29 5/04/2000 Thompson mentioned something about the possibility of a manslaughter charge. Can anybody at JW shed some light on that? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 72. "YES, HOLLY!!" Posted by Sharon on 09:47:04 5/05/2000 That's EXACTLY what I thought when I heard Patsy's "poor pitiful plucked me" quote. It wouldn't have mattered to me if you plucked every hair off of every part of my body, at that point. I'd have been weeping going in, weeping going out and weeeping all the while BECAUSE MY PRECIOUS BABY WAS MURDERED. Quite frankly, nothing else would've much registered. But that's just me....(and probably about every other mother on the planet). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Views on the LKL" Posted by Ryder on 19:22:28 5/04/2000 I thought that Thomas and Thompson handled themselves very well. Hunter's animosity towards Thomas has increased since last I heard him. As for Alan D., the words which I would need to describe my opinion of this guy would get me kicked off this forum. I don't even know why TV shows still run after his "expert" opinion. Rank counts, obviously, since Thomas was not given a chance to speak towards the end. If Hunter's pals get in as D.A. there is no hope for this case. He is not the least bit convincing when he says that the case will not be forgotten. Too much time of this interview was spent on being catty. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "I counted" Posted by Real Stormy on 19:57:31 5/04/2000 The "Hunted One" saying "To the table" 8 times in the space of 30 seconds. He was and is a boring ass.He seemed to be more nervous than usual. He sat there giggling much of the time. My favorite part (the guy talks in cliches') was when he said the case wasn't ripe. Thomas said it was not only ripe, but rotten. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Well" Posted by lake on 20:11:24 5/04/2000 Thomas proved tonight John Ramsey was right, he is a "moron". He is so dense he went head to head with Dershowitz and got his clock cleaned. What is so painfully obvious is Thomas doesn't learn from his mistakes, which in his case means he doesn't learn at all. His performance on this show gives us an insight into what his interaction with Lou Smit must have been like with regard to their opposing viewpoints - he didn't listen and process, and learned nothing. Much like many JW internet posters. God, am I glad that I have been and am on the other side of this issue. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Speaking of the other side..." Posted by Kaethe on 21:35:26 5/04/2000 Couldn't help but notice (the word for word post was a real give away) that you, lake, are guppy when posting "over there". Why let your guppy swim in that smelly old fifty-dollar swamp thingy when you can spend quality time in this old lake? Welcome home. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "No K" Posted by lake on 22:32:53 5/04/2000 I read at Jams forum. As do you apparently. You just caught me lifting guppy's post on the subect. Our opinion on this issue seems to be the same. No need to reinvent the wheel. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "You have to be kidding, lake" Posted by Kaethe on 04:39:57 5/05/2000 Lift an entire post off another board word for word, and paste it here...giving the original author no credit at all?? I'm sorry. That's not flattery, that's laziness and deception. There are many times that people on these forums have expressed ideas that I share completely, and almost always better than I could myself. But never would I think of copying those post and sticking them somewhere else to pass them off as my own words. No, I'd rather go on believing that you are Guppy. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "Wrong show Lake" Posted by Cutter on 07:44:01 5/05/2000 I have no idea what channel YOU were watching last night, Lake. I just read the LKL transcript that was finally posted on the CNN site and even in print Dershowitz sounds like an idiot. He rambles on about "accidental homicide". Dershowitz isn't even smart enough to realize that if Phatsy killed JBR in a fit of rage as Thomas suggests it would [at least] qualify for a "manslaughter" charge (duh). Thomas was the one on the show who questioned his ranting about "accidental homicide" making him [Dershowitz] look just as incompetent as Hunter. In fact, most Prosecutors in this country would consider this a "2nd degree murder" case, nowhere near "accidental homicide". What is this fool Dershowitz thinking?! Sheeesh, people wonder why there are incompetent District Attorneys like Alex Hunter around? The answer is simple, Alan Dershowitz is their teacher. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "LKL" Posted by Aurora on 20:27:32 5/04/2000 At least they had the sides evened up...eh? Two against two. They certainly do not agree on much. I thought AH was very disrespectful ...laughing while others were trying to make their points. No one did that to him. He came off as ho hum about all of this. When asked point blank if he intended to proscute this case...he never did give a straight foward answer. I can see what ST means by his double talk. A simple YES or NO..to the ? would be nice. Alex and Alan both ripped into Ben running for office and ST for writing the book . Ben wants closure in this and promises an arrest if he wins the election. I doubt he would make a statement like that without facts to back it up. He'll get those signatures..mark my words. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "Hunter said...." Posted by rose on 20:13:55 5/04/2000 that this case needed someone with more energy, when asked by did he think there would be an arrest. I took that as his saying he would not indict this case while his term runs out. Also, Dershy said that if the dead was caused by an accident that the murderer could not be charged with manslaughter?????? I would like to ask him why so many people are sitting in jail today on charges of manslaughter, for phyically abusing someone and causeing their death???? Death might not have been the objective when that person hit another person, but death did happen. What do you call it if not manslauter. If I got mad at a person and bashed him in the head in a moment of temper and he dies, I feel sure that the police would arrest me and charge me with manslaughter at least. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Could be" Posted by Gemini on 20:30:44 5/04/2000 because the strangulation was the cause of death, rose. About Thompson and Thomas ... Logan's Run is starting to look like foreseeable future multi-choice question: What does a neo-nazi look like? a) Oh, that's easy ... a skinhead. b) There's no real answer to that one. c) There are so many answers they'd take up more space than we're allowed per post. Open response question: What does a neo-nazi sound like? ________________________________________________ ________________________________________________ ________________________________________________ Take all the time you like. I'm not the keeper of the stop watch. (tick tick tick) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Rose" Posted by Aurora on 20:31:55 5/04/2000 Manslaughter and conspiracy AFTER the fact..is what they should be charged with ..along with obstruction of justice. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "What do they think about when they wake up?" Posted by CommonSense on 20:39:54 5/04/2000 Every night those two go to bed after one of these talk shows. Larry King had one detective on tonight who has written a book directly stating that Patsy killed JonBenet. Larry King had one attorney saying that if he's elected DA he'll make sure that the killer(s) are arrested ASAP, and then we have Alex Hunter, the DA who has hinted that the Ramseys did it but who is afraid to put them on trial. The Ramseys had better make a deal with Hunter's people before he's out of there. So . . . when you go to bed after watching that - as Patsy and John - what do you think of during those early morning hours when you wake up and can't go back to sleep. I doubt that either of the Ramseys suffer from constipation. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Thompson and Dershowitz" Posted by maxi on 21:00:15 5/04/2000 I didn't think I'd like Thompson, but I thought he was quite down-to-earth. In the little bit I saw, he held his own with Dershowitz and Hunter. Interesting, Hunter asked for Dershowitz as his "partner" tonight. I agree with Thomas that another prosecutor would have been more appropriate. But Hunter's got Scheck, Lee, and now Dershowitz. When does Cochran come in? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "strangled..." Posted by rose on 21:17:58 5/04/2000 If i put a rope around a persons neck in order to restrain them while I pushed a an object into their vagina to punish them, and I accidentally strangled them almost to the point of death and then bashed their head in, in a moment of extreme anger and that person died, I do believe the police would charge me with at least manslauter. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "OR" Posted by Holly on 21:27:28 5/04/2000 2nd degree murder. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "U R so right, Rose." Posted by listener on 21:56:58 5/04/2000 And I'll bet that they wouldn't be calling it an *accident* either. ST, and especially AD called this MURDER an ACCIDENT many times tonight. What's up with that? The general public is not that stupid! Also, Dershowitz mention a couple of times that you can't be charged for murdering someone who is already dead. Maybe he stated it as *you thought was already dead*. Exactly where is he going with that? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "Thank you commonsense" Posted by Faith on 21:32:20 5/04/2000 I am laughing so hard. My best friend told me once that if you are intimidated by someone, picture them sitting on the toilet while they're talking to you. It really helps. As for the constipation thing, I gotta hand it to you. You really got me laughing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Rose" Posted by Gemini on 22:03:30 5/04/2000 "at least manslaughter" wasn't my point. I don't know exactly how long a murderer would have to meditate on the action before said action becoming "premeditated", but my guess would be ... not long at all. In Thomas' theory, the act of strangulation was, obviously, premeditated. Therefore, a manslaughter charge would be too little, not too much. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Heh ... CommonSense," Posted by Slinky on 22:20:51 5/04/2000 I think you're very right about the Ramseys not suffering from constipation. LOL! ... Why, I would even say that ole' John-boy probably thinks that Patsy suffers from diarrhea of the mouth far too often! Slinky [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Ben & Steve" Posted by lake on 22:47:36 5/04/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:47:36, 5/04/2000 Are one shy of the three stooges. Both are braindead. Thomas should never have been given a badge and Thompson should be laughed at and not applauded by any reasonable person. Both of those clowns should be presumed guilty JW posters and nothing more. That way no resonable person would take their opinions or theories seriously. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "Lake, I totally agree!" Posted by v_p on 07:37:13 5/05/2000 >>>Both of those clowns should be presumed guilty JW posters and nothing more. That way no resonable person would take their opinions or theories seriously.<<< You are talking about PR and JR, right? V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "V-P" Posted by lee2 on 09:28:10 5/05/2000 Thanks for that laugh! Excellent response. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Well, lake," Posted by Ev on 23:36:01 5/04/2000 here we go again! Calling people schoolboy names and putting people in molds. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Now wouldn't it be a perfect world if everyone did what we think they should or said things the way we think they should? I guess I should go to bed ~ I've been up too long! At any rate, glad to see you back here again. I really missed all your sniping. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "follow the rules" Posted by pinker on 04:13:29 5/05/2000 What are the CO rules of civil procedure regarding grievance filing that was eluded to? Any shark food out there? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "What if is was" Posted by Househazard on 05:49:10 5/05/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 05:49:10, 5/05/2000 an accident? AD was saying that if you THINK the body is dead, then anything goes? I don't get it. If the molestation was part of the staging, then what about necrophilia (?). Messing around with a corpse. Does that mean I can go to the morgue and start beating and strangling corpses? I thought out of the bunch AD did the best (unfortunately). I thought he made a good point about Thompson using a promise of arrest to get elected. BUT Thompson has more murders under his belt than the DAs office combined! I think that's pretty impressive myself. I feel sorry for Hunter. He looks warped. He's had enough. He's tired and angry. I think if he could turn back time, he'd do it differently, but now he's got to stick with what he's done. Thomas looked cocky and ready to take on the world. LOL I don't like his theory, personally, but he's most passionate about this case. I think he may have written 'sueable' things in the book just to get the Ramseys in court. IF it was just an accident, go ahead and arrest her for that then. If that's all it was, that's all it was. As far as Patsy thinking of not cooperating when her pubes were being plucked, who said she WASN'T at THAT point? That's not what she was thinking, she's full of chit. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "A Real Case with Similar Charges" Posted by Andrea on 09:00:57 5/05/2000 I have a personal story about this manslaughter vs. 2nd degree murder issue when the perp thinks the victim is already dead. There is a case in my hometown (I live in a small town) involving the son in a family that is very close friends of my aunt and uncle. Also, I know the family from the community. This is what happened: A man in his 20s, Gerry (an alias), owns a farm and had Mexicans working for him. Gerry had 3 Workers (who were illegal aliens) in his truck-two in the back and one in the cab. They were going up a hill, it was raining, he lost control and flipped the truck. One of the workers in the back was able to jump away to safety when the truck flipped, but the other worker was trapped underneath the truck. Gerry said something to the Workers (who didn't speak English and didn't understand him) and left, presumably to go get help. When Gerry didn't come back after 30 minutes, the 2 Workers went for help because they could not get the truck off of their co-worker. After getting the help of an English speaking friend, they went to the police. The accident occurred in the afternoon, and by the time, the local and state police got to the accident site, it was very late at night. When the police and Workers arrived at the accident site, the truck was upright, and the other man was no where to be found. He was found the next day dead in a pond on the farm. The police arrested Gerry, and there was a witness who saw (or helped) Gerry put this man in the pond. First, he was arrested for reckless homicide and corpse abuse. However, the autospy found that injuries sustained from the wreck were not fatal, and the victim's lungs were filled with water. Therefore, he was alive when put into the water. So, now, Gerry faces 2nd degree murder charges. This case is still pending. Gerry has pleaded not guilty, and it has not gone to trial. I am sure that Gerry thought this man was dead. He did not mean to kill anyone. But, given the additional factor that this man was an illegel alien, Gerry panicked and did something stupid. But, he still has to face the consequences of his actions. I think this is very applicable to the JBR case. Let's say the blow to the head was an accident. The strangulation and movement of the body was staging. I would say that is reckless/neligient homicide and corpse abuse. However, the autospy and the Rams say she died from strangulation. Now, the person who strangled her should face 2nd degree murder charges because what they did to cover up the "death" in fact may have caused the ultimate death of JB. The only problem with this is that the head blow would have eventually killed JB, but the Rams always say she was killed by strangulation. This case I mentioned before REALLY shocked the community. I don't know Gerry very personally, but my aunt and uncle attend church with the family, ran the Little League Ball Park with Gerry's parents, and went on vacation with his parents. As far as I know, they are basically good people. Gerry is in his late 20s, is married, and has three small children. He will probably spend many years in jail. I do feel for him and his family, and especially for the Worker's family. Sorry for rambling, but after reading these posts about what constitutes manslaughter/2nd degree murder, I had to add my 2 cents worth about my personal experience. Andrea [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "Dersh and Alex..." Posted by Byron on 05:31:58 5/05/2000 ...may very well be "smarter" than Steve and Ben...but do the words "smarmy" and "sleazy" ring a bell? I'll take people who tell it like it is over sleazemerchants any day. Remember, this bastard helped get OJ off. (I guess that's why I think Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford are far more admirable than Reagan or Clinton...oh yeah...damn the "economy") [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "Does anyone else" Posted by Real Stormy on 06:27:43 5/05/2000 Remember a couple of years ago on the old BNF when Fra said she had run into Dershowitz at the PO on Martha's Vineyard? She said she asked him who did it and he responded "The mother did." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "Real Stormy" Posted by lee2 on 09:30:50 5/05/2000 I like that story. I wish someone could have called in and confronted Alan Dershowitz about it. If they ever do a movie about AD they should get Woody Alan to play him. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "Let's make a deal!" Posted by Greenleaf on 07:48:43 5/05/2000 I got up afresh this morning, focusing on Alan D. and Alex H., and trying to decipher the subtleties in their obvious agendas. The words "manslaughter" and "accidental" squirmed in several times. What's this? Alan might be thinking that the Rams "accidentally killed their daughter?" Alan was 100% supportive of Alex, even offering words of high praise for his restraint. Where is this coming from? It's coming from the RST; mainly Patsy and John. (IMHO) Are they (the Rams) about to make a plea bargain with Alex before someone like Ben comes into office? Yes indeed. I believe that's what they are going to do. Alan was there last night to set the mode, to test the waters and, in the process, to knock down Steve and Ben as much as he could. One question Greta could have asked Alan: Did you and Mr. Hunter call each other prior to the program tonight? Did you two discuss the case and what course of action you would take on this program? Greta missed a lot of opportunities like that. It's coming down the wire, folks. A deal is brewing and old Alex is right in the middle of it all. Another missed Greta question: Mr. Hunter, did you speak with the Ramsey and/or their lawyers before coming on this program? Of course, he would say "no," but the inference would be there and the audience could decide for themselves if he were telling the truth. This would have been the kicker: Alan, are you now or have you ever been on the Ramsey payroll? Are the "powers that be" looking for a way for Alex to resign gracefully? (Maybe with a metal or somethng?) Greenleaf p.s. The obtuse Ram puppet, Lake, was quick to come back and call Steve a moron. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 76. "Greenleaf-Payroll" Posted by Bobby on 10:18:15 5/05/2000 Greenleaf while I was watching and sputtering to myself about lawyers it had occurred to me that AD and AH had spoken and planned there "togetherness" last night. I thought that JR might be bankrolling them through CNN. It would be a hoot if there was a money trail that could be shown but it'll never happen. The a$$wipes are too good with the paperwork. Hunter could never look honest to me again while ST and BT may have been outgunned(monied) last night I feel their honesty was apparent. BT has other platforms he represents while AH's only agenda is covering his butt. Anyway, Autumn, I hope you are having fun with you know who by now :). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 69. "Oops, Honey, I shrunk the kid" Posted by lee2 on 09:34:08 5/05/2000 "accidentally killed their daughter?" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "I remember, fly" Posted by maxi on 07:48:13 5/05/2000 And, in most of his tv appearance, I've gotten the impression he believes Patsy did it. He's just there to play defense atty or appeals atty, and to talk about his new book is about. I find Dershowitz very interesting when he's talking about law in the abstract, but he gets annoying when he turns on his cross examination persona. But then, don't they all! I'm not a big fan of trial attys on either side. Success in that profession seems to take a special way of thinking that often seems to have very little to do with the whole truth. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "my 2 cents worth" Posted by fly on 07:20:25 5/05/2000 Apparently, the word "accident" has very specific meaning and is not appropriate if there is reckless or negligent behavior. AD was basing his comments on Thomas' statement that it was an accident, followed by PR strangling JBR, probably thinking she was already dead. Whether or not "accident" is appropriate is debatable, but if Thomas is going to use that description, manslaughter is not the appropriate charge, according to AD. If the death is not premeditated (Gem - I've read where only a moment of premeditation is needed), but contains aspects of negligence, then manslaughter is a possibility. At least that is what I gathered from AD's comments. I can't believe some of you thought Ben Thompson came off well. Any doubt I might have had about whether he was as big an @ss as the news articles suggested were eradicated. He as bigger one than I'd figured. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "Then Ante Up!" Posted by Lacey on 08:00:26 5/05/2000 I was stunned by how they tried to twist "accident" to mean the whole homicide was just an unfortunate mishap so no big deal. FLOL, I've never encountered such incomprehensible jargon. (Except when some of these so-called expert talking heads get together and hash case.) Refer to the Henry Lee description of "not necessarily a homicide but rather an accidental death with subsequent staging of the crime scene to make it look like a homicide." (paraphrased for proper Engalesh, lol.) This type of accident begs the question, what was going on here that caused this kid to die??? I'm sure Dersh. knows what they mean by accident and was merely muddying the waters. (In that legal way which is probably justifiable but STILL!!!) And I'm not so much concerned with splitting hairs over the accident definition as I am with clarifying what was done AFTER the so-called accident, which kind of has the effect of upping the charges to the criminal act that everybody wanted to deny. Fly, I am like sooooooooo with you on Thompson, see prior post.. Boulderites will never elect this carpet bagger, looks like we're back to Keenan and DeMuth, help me Jeeeeeeeeezus!!! . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "Dershowitz" Posted by Starling on 08:19:31 5/05/2000 Dershowitz is wrong. Anyone, including Steve Thomas can look at the overall information on this case, and believe it was an accident because it all boils down to what happened in the home was actually some form of domestic vilonce. But in all reality this was a horrific murder. If Joe Blow on the east side, bludgeoned Lucy Goosey on the west side and then knowingly constructed with his own two hands, a device to deliberately snuff the remaining life out of poor Luch - Joe Blow is going to die by lethal injection. The important thing to remember is the size of JonBenet and the size of her perps. How Colorado law reads, regarding death to a child under the age of 10 by one in a position of trust superceeds any type of domestic violence claim. So, in this sense I disagree with Steve Thomas. By law, this was no accident. And for what it's worth, I think that Ben Thompson sounded immature, unprofessional and was made to look like an ass last night. Score 1 for Alex. Starling [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 70. "Andrea--your illustration was" Posted by fiddler on 09:39:56 5/05/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 09:39:56, 5/05/2000 interesting, both as to what constitutes murder, and as showing what basically good, responsible people are capable of doing when their backs are to the wall. The fact that this was a tragedy for everyone involved doesn't excuse Gerry from having to face the consequences of his actions, or inactions.... Sometimes I think the greatest hindrance to the prosecution of the Ramseys has been the general public's (mis)conception of what "decent" people could and could not do. Another interesting example, although fictional, is the book/movie "A Simple Plan." I highly recommend either or both. lake--what is a "resonable" person? Is that something like "resonant", as in making a lot of noise? (I saw you already had edited the post, so I'm assuming the spelling was intentional.) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "Aurora & Cutter" Posted by Ryder on 09:52:36 5/05/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 09:52:36, 5/05/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 09:48:59, 5/05/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 09:46:58, 5/05/2000 I agree with both of you. Aurora, in a few words your post #35 says it all. "Manslaughter and conspiracy AFTER the fact..is what they should be charged with ..along with obstruction of justice." Very well said. Cutter, the fact that Dershowitz - "the expert" could not come up with what Aurora says here and had to be reminded of the manslaughter charge by Thompson, IMO, is not because he is a fool, nor even because of a slip of the memory. I wish it were so (that would even be a better prognosis of his problem). The media has forced Dershowitz opinion on us frequently enough for me to gauge A.D.'s intelligence as sufficiently sound. It is rather the sleezier side of his defense attorney's tactics that have to be questioned. It is on the ethical level and in his relationship to the pursuit of truth that I have had bones to pick with Mr. Dersh on many occasions. Last night, we were basically treated to Dersh, the defense lawyer, where he comes out gun-slinging and trying to win argument at all costs, by attempting to corner people like Thomas and Thompson with legal rhetoric. Dershowitz knows and did not forget about the pertinence of the word "manslaughter" + the other items mentioned so succintly by Aurora in post #35. He was out to a] make Thomas look like a fool b] destroy the ethical credibility of Thompson as a candidate for D.A. BUT, it is very much to Thompson's credit that it backfired and that Dersh was made to look like exactly what he is: a smooth-talking defense attorney whose selective memory of legal terms depends on what it takes for him to WIN at all costs and with total disregard for guilt and innocence, truth and falsehood. For anyone who has met up with Mr. Dersh before, his moral indignation regarding the "threat to the justice system" which Thompson's statements supposedly represent was nothing short of hilarious. When Dersh is out playing legal logic for hire by the highest bidder, he can hold his own, but when he turns to moral issues, he is clearly out of his element. I didn't know what to expect of Thompson prior to yesterday's LKL. He now has my confidence. Unlike Hunter, he is very quick to realize what IS funny (i.e. ridiculous) in this argument. Suggesting that BT's statements regarding the Ramsey case is the single "referendum" issue upon which BT's candidacy for D.A. is based, was an attempt at crafty gun-slinging by Dersh. However, given the magnitude of the Ramsey case and the well-known bungling of Hunter regarding it, one can bet that the voters want to know and ASK the candidates to state their position regarding the record of the D.A. When DeMuth answers "No comment" the public understands that with him, they will be treated to not just more of the same but even worse. My reading of this mess is that DeMuth and Hoffstrom were the real problem, more so then Hunter and that the latter's main problem is having been too spineless to stand up to them. Watching and listening to Hunter yesterday, I basically saw a very nervous, embarrassed man who is weak to the point of cowardice. His ability to speak out both sides of his mouth at once is rendered evident every time he steps up to bat. Notice that when asked about Ramsey so-called "co-operation", he began by stating that he basically agreed with ST, yet mid-way through his sentence lacked the courage to go all the way and say "No, they did not co-operate." He just hummed and hawed, in such a way that by the end of the sentence, he sounded like he was basically backing up the rights of the Ramseys to not co-operate. Like John Ramsey, this guy is incapable of strong conviction in any of his words. He just spins like a weather vane right before your eyes and within a matter of seconds. His primary flaw is cowardice and the more I hear him, the more I realize that ST really has his number. On one side of yesterday's battle we had Hunter cowardice + defense lawyer sleeze. And I think that it was obvious that on the other side of the table we saw not only commitment to this case, to truth and justice, but we also saw two individuals very capable of standing up to sleeze and double-talk in an honest, intelligent and direct way. I applaud Thomas and Thompson because when all is said and done, in layman's terms, they cut through the crap. I am now much more confident that this case will not be shelved after all. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 77. "Great post Ryder" Posted by Bobby on 10:25:11 5/05/2000 I agree with kdubois2. That was weel worth the read! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 75. "Ryder" Posted by kdubois2 on 09:53:29 5/05/2000 Good post, i agree with alot of what you said. My favorite part of the show, was when ST made a the comment about Alex track record of 28yrs.At least someone told the truth about Alex's lack of prosecuiting cases. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 73. "Damn that Greta!" Posted by vic on 09:50:50 5/05/2000 I was SO irritated. ST asked Hunter if in his remaining six months would he be bringing this case to trial. And stupid Greta told Alex to "hold that answer" and never got back to it. I hate having so many people on a show, nobody has enough time and some people never shut up! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 71. "Ryder" Posted by Greenleaf on 09:41:20 5/05/2000 That was, imo, the very best summary and analysis of the LKL show that I've heard, to date. Excellent! Just excellent! Greenleaf p.s. Ryder (and others) please put your name at the bottom of long posts. Thank you. (It keeps us from having to go back to the top to find the author.) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 74. "Ryder--I agree with" Posted by fiddler on 09:53:01 5/05/2000 Greenleaf about your post. Also, about Hunter: I think that in certain circumstances, anyone's best qualities can turn into their worst. IMO, Hunter is a cautious, liberal-minded conciliator who does his best to be fair and reasonable. In most circumstances, that would be just fine. Dealing with the Ramseys, those very same qualities have proven to be disastrous. One of the saddest aspects of this case, to me, is how so many basically decent people have had their lives, or reputations, ruined by their own best qualities. Alex Hunter. Tom Koby. Linda Arndt. Steve Thomas. Lou Smit. John Eller. The list goes on and on--and this power of turning good to the service of evil is far more horrifying to me than just simple bribery, or conspiracy, or corruption. Those are easy to understand--but this Ramsey sinkhole is pure evil, IMO. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 80. "yes" Posted by Seashell on 10:51:29 5/05/2000 "Remember a couple of years ago on the old BNF when Fra said she had run into Dershowitz at the PO on Martha's Vineyard? She said she asked him who did it and he responded "The mother did." I remember that too. I'd still vote for BT over those other two candidates! I don't think he can do any worse and what's worse than this stalled case? At least he has b**** and murder trial experience. At this point, we need to oust the status quo, but I betcha Boulder doesn't want to change anything. It might bring the press back to town and disturb their routes out of town to go camping, skiing, biking, hiking, climbing and 4-wheeling. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 79. "Fiddler" Posted by Ryder on 10:49:13 5/05/2000 I also agree with you. I can see where Hunter's problems with this case may stem from what, in other circumstances, would be qualities. i.e. a strict commitment to impartiality and objectivity; a desire to use diplomacy as far as humanly possible. But you have said it very well: these are qualities which can be exploited, and WERE by the strength of the Ramsey machine. When faced with basic human weakness and lack of courage, it is difficult for me to take the line of "kicking the weak when they are already down and out, stretched across the floor and bleeding" as it were. There are times when I pity Hunter, but just as any sympathy from me to the Ramseys regarding the (perhaps accidental) loss of a child is completely eradicated by the very thing you bring up: the fact that so many innocent people have lost jobs and reputations because of Ramsey tactics in the cover-up, so it is with me and Alex Hunter. He was also instrumental in the dismantling of innocent lives and he could have cut his losses at many turns of this road. I also couldn't help but notice that what got Hunter moving in re-shuffling DeMuth and Hofstrom in the case AND what got him to begin courting the media, were two very public instances of people blowing the whistle on the workings of his office. Only when ST's book was on the verge of hitting the shelves, did Hunter move into the media limelight. i.e. : to save his skin. In spite of that, my feelings of anger towards the likes of the Ramseys and the Dershowitzs of this world, surpass by far what I feel for Hunter. Hunter, for me, was simply a bad umpire in all of this, whose calls were much rougher on those committed to truth than to those who do everything to snake around it. And subsequent to that, rather than improve his record, he has worsened it by channeling whatever passion and aggression he can muster towards Thomas, thereby giving us the impression that the bottom line for him is protection of his reputation. As I say, he has a lot in common with John Ramsey. If we ever get to the truth of this, we may find that these two men were basically decent folk, who made the mistake of protecting people far less decent than them, and in the process, opposing those who better deserved their support. Of course with regards to JR, this is just a possibility among many, but one which has occurred to me as potentially feasible, at least until we know the extent of JR's involvement in the death of his daughter. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 78. "street smarts vs. pedantic displays" Posted by Cher on 10:48:11 5/05/2000 Andrea--thanks for posting that story from your home town. I have often wondered about other scenarios where the perp only thought the victim was dead. I am curious, too, about whether there are any fictional works out there with that theme. Fiddler, A Simple Plan is an excellent analogy to this situation. I really, really enjoyed that movie. I was a little disappointed in Ben Thompson, but I would not go so far as to call him a name, as has one poster on this thread. We northerners have to remember he is from the south and may have a bit more of a folksy way about him than we are used to. Thompson demonstrated an ability to see to the quick of the matter, whereas AH and AD got caught up in legal rhetoric and flim-flammery. I would never say AH and AD are smarter than Thomas/Thompson--I think the former are ivory tower types where the latter are street-smart, quick thinkers. As far as lack of professionalism goes, I was appalled when AH snickered and squirmed. Not only was it the height of unprofessionalism, but it was extremely immature. Nor did I think Dershowitz came off well. At one point he was reduced to babbling; not just stammering but out-and-out babbling. When a person feels the need to call out their credentials (he said he'd been teaching this stuff xx years), it always makes me think they are secretly feeling very threatened. Good points in your analysis, Ryder. Cher . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]