Justice Watch Support JW "What a mess! (And other rambling thoughts)" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... What a mess! (And other rambling thoughts), Chris, 18:19:47, 5/05/2001 Chris, JR, 18:29:24, 5/05/2001, (#1) Hi Chris..., Phantom, 18:38:47, 5/05/2001, (#2) Chris, driver, 18:42:23, 5/05/2001, (#3) Email, Chris, 18:46:05, 5/05/2001, (#4) ...I'm right with you wha ever you decide Chris, Sixpence, 18:49:52, 5/05/2001, (#5) But you've been doing such a great job, Chris ! , Chatter, 18:57:40, 5/05/2001, (#6) Chris...., szundi, 19:11:20, 5/05/2001, (#7) BTW, Chris, 19:33:25, 5/05/2001, (#8) Chris, South, 20:53:32, 5/05/2001, (#9) I hear you Roar!, ayelean, 21:15:23, 5/05/2001, (#10) Chris, don't let the trivial things get to you..., Hannah, 22:27:46, 5/05/2001, (#11) Chris, Shamrockgirl, 22:41:31, 5/05/2001, (#12) I wonder, Gemini, 22:46:39, 5/05/2001, (#13) Gemini, Tricia, 22:58:54, 5/05/2001, (#14) This too shall pass, darby, 00:00:13, 5/06/2001, (#16) Moderators needed, you say?, Ellique, 23:31:52, 5/05/2001, (#15) Ellique, darby, 00:12:08, 5/06/2001, (#17) I'll nominate Ellique, mary99, 00:34:52, 5/06/2001, (#18) Way to go, Chris, A.K., 01:39:34, 5/06/2001, (#19) By the way Chris, JR, 01:50:30, 5/06/2001, (#20) AK, Annette, 02:08:25, 5/06/2001, (#21) JR, You crack me up, Ellique, 03:37:15, 5/06/2001, (#22) Ellique, JR, 03:40:14, 5/06/2001, (#23) Yes, Chris, Watching you, 05:43:38, 5/06/2001, (#25) I just got here, , starry, 05:41:17, 5/06/2001, (#24) Chris, Twitch, 05:51:17, 5/06/2001, (#26) Watching You, Greenleaf, 06:52:53, 5/06/2001, (#27) Greenie, Watching you, 07:18:50, 5/06/2001, (#28) I'm sorry, Pennant, 07:20:30, 5/06/2001, (#29) WY, AK, darby, 08:19:20, 5/06/2001, (#32) Chris, Jellyjaws, 07:59:16, 5/06/2001, (#31) I totally, Harley, 07:53:09, 5/06/2001, (#30) Darby, Watching you, 08:23:18, 5/06/2001, (#33) Wy may not be our leader, freebird, 08:46:50, 5/06/2001, (#36) Well, darby, 08:39:29, 5/06/2001, (#34) Actually, no, Darby, Watching you, 08:45:52, 5/06/2001, (#35) There are more than two factions, Maggie, 10:58:13, 5/06/2001, (#43) Chris, watchin', 10:05:24, 5/06/2001, (#39) what really bothers, DuBois, 09:44:13, 5/06/2001, (#37) Listen up!, Greenleaf, 10:01:25, 5/06/2001, (#38) GL, DuBois, 10:22:08, 5/06/2001, (#40) Dear Friends..., Pedro, 10:54:43, 5/06/2001, (#42) Thanks GL, Midnight_Wolf, 10:36:05, 5/06/2001, (#41) Pedro, Watching you, 10:59:10, 5/06/2001, (#44) Pedro, DuBois, 11:26:57, 5/06/2001, (#45) Hi Pedro..., Phantom, 12:11:17, 5/06/2001, (#47) Pedro, driver, 11:56:48, 5/06/2001, (#46) I agree with those, Florida, 12:22:13, 5/06/2001, (#48) Pedro, Twitch, 12:31:03, 5/06/2001, (#49) Phantom..., Pedro, 12:38:25, 5/06/2001, (#50) I didn't think..., Phantom, 12:51:50, 5/06/2001, (#51) ................................................................... "What a mess! (And other rambling thoughts)" Posted by Chris on 18:19:47 5/05/2001 I just got home from a very long day and it will take me a while to catch up. Actually, it's been a very long week and I'll admit that I am terribly behind on the threads. That said, there are two things I can say with absolute certainty... 1. It's time to recruit some new moderators. I originally said moderators would rotate and several who originally offered to help have dropped out. Please email me if you're interested in helping! webmaster@justicewatch.com 2. I'm going to make some changes and try to do what I can do to help us regain our focus. I hope everyone will join me in that. It's that or shut the whole thing off. Please give me a chance to read the threads where suggestions have been made, etc. Also, feel free to email me privately if you have thoughts that you don't wish to post publicly. Thanks, Chris [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Chris" Posted by JR on 18:29:24 5/05/2001 IMO people need to have their memories refreshed on what exactly a moderator does exactly. Thanks and thanks for all you do for us. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Hi Chris..." Posted by Phantom on 18:38:47 5/05/2001 I do not think this is really a big deal so that you might even consider ending the forum. But I've stated my opinion. I guess that it would be very fair if you wanted to make another place, like "The Nancy Krebs" forum, and have all posts about, or including her, put there. That seems a little weird to make one just for her, but WTH. :-) I don't know how to do that so I don't know if that would be hard or not. You could also just ignore all the posts and posters...this happens every so often, it would peter out.? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Chris" Posted by driver on 18:42:23 5/05/2001 Do you have your own private email address or do you want us to use the one that says jwmoderators.com? I don't think that I have anything to say, but I believe if I did I would not want to share those comments with all of the moderators. Ha! I don't even know who or how many moderators there are! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Email" Posted by Chris on 18:46:05 5/05/2001 My own private email address is webmaster@justicewatch.com. The email address JBRModerators@yahoo.com is accessed by all of the moderators of the forum. Thanks. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "...I'm right with you wha ever you decide Chris" Posted by Sixpence on 18:49:52 5/05/2001 ..but I'm too hot tempered to even moderate my own life... ..this is a mess ..I still plan on buying a six of Killian's and crying my eyes out for this child.. ..hope this door stays open.. ..Nik ..Justice for the murdered child of Boulder ..JFJBR [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "But you've been doing such a great job, Chris ! " Posted by Chatter on 18:57:40 5/05/2001 Maybe nobody else could do it like you do. Is anything wrong? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Chris...." Posted by szundi on 19:11:20 5/05/2001 ...get out the hose and cool everyone down. Do you think some of the rabble rousers might be plants from the dark side to get you so frustrated that you want to shut down? Don't fall for it. Please. szundi [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "BTW" Posted by Chris on 19:33:25 5/05/2001 Our chatroom (#justicewatch) is temporarily closed. We'll work on re-opening it when we get some of these other problems straightened out. Hopefully, we'll shoot for some "scheduled" (and moderated) chats. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Chris" Posted by South on 20:53:32 5/05/2001 I second what Szundi wrote. I have been scrolling past a handful of posters since this thing started again. I left the forum for a while the last time this MW crap got so out of hand. I think getting rid of this forum would be a bigger coup for the Ramsey's than Smit's TV exposure has been. I for one do not intend to be run off again by this crowd. I hope you find a way to work this out. You have always done an outstanding job with this forum. Do whatever you must. You are the (wo) man. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "I hear you Roar!" Posted by ayelean on 21:15:23 5/05/2001 ditto South's post. I just scroll. I've managed to fit the pieces of the puzzle together and it makes me happy. So I just scroll! It's another case of a few ruining for everyone. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Chris, don't let the trivial things get to you..." Posted by Hannah on 22:27:46 5/05/2001 Chris, People have a hard time understanding: Accept what you cannot change, Change what you can, Have the knowledge to know the difference. Scroll on by, if you don't like the subject! You can't please all the people all the time. Your forum, so please yourself. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Chris" Posted by Shamrockgirl on 22:43:30 5/05/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:43:30, 5/05/2001 Don't want to get on your case, but letting Pedro run a part of this forum was asking for trouble. He went nuts and he broke all the rules. Also leting the MW/Nancy Krebs people practically take over the forum didn't help either. They should have their own NK forum or have a seperate area for them alone. So that the rest of us who don't think it's a crediable scenario..a place to post stuff without getting flamed and told we are not "right" and don't care for justice for JonBenet. This forum is for many ideas regarding the murder of JonBenet, not just one. There is a place for all of us. I just don't buy that one......if they feel that way, let them start their own forum. JMHO [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "I wonder" Posted by Gemini on 22:46:39 5/05/2001 if it would help to have a "Ramsey Case Sideshows and Issues" (or something like that) forum where we could discuss any of the case players who crop up in the news in things unrelated to the case (like FW traffic tickets, Kane's career info, etc)? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Gemini" Posted by Tricia on 22:58:54 5/05/2001 Good idea! I like the name "Ramsey Side Show". Many issues could be put in the Ramsey Side Show. Crazy Aunt Pam plus a few others. Like it like it liiikkkee it.(from an old Aerosmith tune Dude looks Like a Lady) Tricia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "This too shall pass" Posted by darby on 00:00:13 5/06/2001 I'm all for Gemini's idea. I'm thinking that if discussing NK bothers so many people, then that's fine, we ought to take it somewhere else. If the greater good is served by doing so, then fine. However, I have a feeling that if we put NK in the exploited section of JW, the same arguments will happen there and even spill back onto the JBR board. The fact is, lots of people are quite interested in those discussions. The proof can be seen in the threads themselves. Even with all the case news generated by Lou Smit's appearances this past week, the recent FW threads have been the hottest topic at JW (with the possible exception of the chatroom meltdown). Take a look at CS, and you'll see the same phenomenon. Even with nobody to argue with, the threads about FW, NK and the JW "coven" causing posters to defect to CS contain the most posts. I do want to point out that the recent flurry of NK activity originated with candy's scan of the police report on FW's criminal complaint. Somebody started a thread over here about it, and of course the whole thing got discussed. This was inevitable. Then there was the news generated about FW's not showing up to court when subpoenaed. This turned into much ado about nothing, but it generated discussion. It's interesting to note is that most of the discussion does not really involve FW's reputation vs. NK's veracity but rather posters ridiculing or hurling insults at other posters. I have a feeling that more FW/NK stuff will crop up in the future. But for now, I think the existing threads are beginning to sink. As Chris herself has said many times--This too shall pass. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Moderators needed, you say?" Posted by Ellique on 23:31:52 5/05/2001 Chris I will think about your offer to let me moderate if that is alright with the majority of posters at JW. I am very unbiased, as you know, and I think I could and would do an outstanding job of letting everyone have their say whether pro Ramsey and con Ramsey without personal attacks. etc. I would be willing to learn how to do it and would travel to anyplace in the USA to do so. JWers, do you want me as a JW Moderator? Love, "I think I might be wrong", Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Ellique" Posted by darby on 00:12:08 5/06/2001 I don't think that job is any picnic. But if you want it, I think you ought to be given a chance. Do keep in mind that the moderator adventure is much like the Survivor show. The other moderators vote each other off until eventually there is only one left. Then they start over with fresh ones. Nobody comes out of it unscathed. You'll never be the same again. That's why I've never wanted to do it. But hey, by all means, go for it! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "I'll nominate Ellique" Posted by mary99 on 00:34:52 5/06/2001 ...it's a tough job but someone's gotta do it... Ellique seems to be even-tempered, unbiased and not a flamer...he gets my vote. Congrats on the sale of your worm farm, btw. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Way to go, Chris" Posted by A.K. on 01:39:34 5/06/2001 I know you've been busy, but I'm pleased that you see it's time for changes here. There are very few disturbers of the JW peace. But they have very purposefully tried to hijack your forum and wreak havoc -- we still don't know to what extent. You've created a wonderful and uniquely creative environment. That's why it's apparently so important to disrupt. Who knows how long these sleeper agents have been in place, but I wouldn't miss them if they disappeared. Over the years other troublemakers were given the boot. At the very least they should have no moderator privileges. It pains me to see good people give up and find other forums, while the jerks remain. I know you'll make a wise decision, and you have my support. Shamrock Pati, I have to disagree with you about pedro. I find him the height of diplomacy. I learn a lot from his civility and humor. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "By the way Chris" Posted by JR on 01:50:30 5/06/2001 Before I forget, Ellique lost a bet to me and my request was that he donate the money to JW. Ellique agreed to do so. ;-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "AK" Posted by Annette on 02:08:25 5/06/2001 I really have to agree with shamrockpatti re Pedro. Please would you read the Chat Thread in the WOR and see if you still find him "the height of diplomacy"? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "JR, You crack me up" Posted by Ellique on 03:37:15 5/06/2001 Of course I am a man; ALL MAN, and certifiably so, else how would I know about panty hose getting in my way at a foot washing. Men wash lady's feet too, you know. :>) By the way JR. I got the check for $51.00 off to Chris on Friday. She should get it for sure no later than Tuesday, maybe even Monday if the mail runs every day in OKEMOS. I included a note explaining the odd amount. Hang in there JR. We are going to get outside help and a brand new investigation team on this JonBenet murder yet!! Love, "I think I might be wrong", Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Ellique" Posted by JR on 03:40:14 5/06/2001 Nope - didn't knw that especially when the man makes comments about his wife having to sign financial documents. ;-\ I am sure Chris will be happy to see your check - forums aren't cheap. It's nice to know you don't welch on your bets. ;-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Yes, Chris" Posted by Watching you on 05:43:38 5/06/2001 this is a mess, and it's been a mess for quite some time. There are so many posters fed up with what has been going on here, this was bound to happen sooner or later. I don't make any secret that I am dead set against what a few posters have been doing to Fleet White, and I don't even know that man. That is not the way I was brought up to treat others. But, I was brought up to stand up for what I believe in. I have been called narrow minded, judgmental, opinionated, and more. I don't care what anyone calls me. Their petty names don't mean jack to mee - my integrity means a great deal to me. I could scroll, sure, and I've done it hundreds of times. But, when they bring it on threads that have been started that have absolutely nothing to do with FW/NK, how the hell do you scroll past that? They are there to cause trouble, no way around it. As much as I do not like the subject matter, if it had a positive effect on the forum, which it does not, and if the majority agreed it should be here, which they do not, and if it had one blasted thing to do with who murdered JBR, which it does not, I would not have a problem with it. What JW has become is a platform for a very few posters to infiltrate every blasted thread with comments about Nancy Krebs and Fleet White. It has basically been taken over and become the Nancy Krebs/Fleet White forum. And woe be to anyone who speaks up about it. The words, "censureship," "constitution," get thrown about, even though they are not true. You have set up different rooms here for different subjects. The Nancy Krebs story may be fascinating to some, but I no longer care to hear it. I have made some observations, asked questions, as have others, but answers have not been forthcoming. It is a dictoral form of inteference with the threads, actually, and one that some of our posters are familiar with, I would bet. It's a tact the cults use (yes, I have studied the cults and am very familiar with their tactics). It doesn't work on me but it does overload my brain with rhetoric and nonsense and only serves to anger me because it those kinds of tactics do not belong on any forum. I don't even know if those who are doing recognize that they are using cultish tactics, but I recognize it. Aside from all that, if there were one shred of evidence against FW that supported their allegations, other than their allegations that Nancy Krebs (we were not even to be trusted with her name for a very long time) said something about FW and his father, and if we had been treated like the adults we are instead of being treated like idiots, I would have supported their right to discuss this subject. But, they have caused this man to suffer by having his name tarnished in the most despicable way, and they have no remorse for it, they think he deserves it, they have acted as God almighty in judging him guilty on the (alleged) word of one woman and her therapist. And they have raised major hell around here if the rest of us didn't go along with it, interferring with threads, forcing it down our throats, until this poster just had enough of it. It had to happen. If it were not I, it would have been someone else. I know this is long, Chris, but I don't know if I'm going to be here to post anymore. It depends on what happens next. I don't want to leave, but I will if this continues. That is not a threat. that is my decision to protect my own hide. I'm not going to be part of a lawsuit against JW because of just a few fanatic posters. Mame made the statement within the past few days that there was "flesh" under JB's fingernails. She also used the term "defensive." I have read otherwise, that the material under her fingernails was old and cracked. Upon reading mame's post, I asked, if there were flesh under JB's fingernails, and it was defensive, why would they not have been able to obtain good DNA samples from it? It only takes one tiny miniscule sample for DNA, and mame claimed there was "flesh," which would have provided a fantastic amount of DNA for testing and in that case would have either implicated or cleared John and Patsy Ramsey by now. I made the point that with that much DNA, they have a full strand of DNA that could readily identify anyone. They have FW's DNA. If FW were involved in this murder, that "flesh under the fingernails" would have convicted him. It has not. End of story. Of course, that scenario depended completely upon mame's sources, which she again would not name, and her honesty in reporting those facts. No one will be surprised to learn that my questions were ignored and the brainwashing continued. So, either the DNA was identifiable or it wasn't. Either way, mame had some questions to answer, and she refused again. It is this type of stuff that drives people wild. She had the chance to prove then and there that FW was guilty because that good DNA under JB's fingernails said he was. FW is not in prison. He has been charged with no crime. He is under no suspicion. What has been going on here is not discussion. It has been outright accusations against Fleet White of child molestation, one of the most hideous of all crimes, being part of a sex ring, and of abusing Nancy Krebs. That is not discussion. That is blatant abuse of free speech and grounds for libel suits by Fleet White. I have seen mame actually dare him to come after her. This is just uncalled for. However, as strongly as I feel about it, I was willing to compromise. But, mame wasn't. It is her constitutional right to defame others. Well, then, let her, but I won't be here to see it. This subject does not belong on JW because it is defamatory, it is a personal attack against Fleet White and a chance to further attack the BPD. I don't have a problem with attacking public institutions, but this charge was investigated. Whether certain people like the results or not, that's the way it goes. Tell them about it. I have asked why these same posters have not called Child Protective Services with their complaints to get FW's children away from that "child molester," if they truly believe this and it isn't just a smear campaign. No answer. It has to be called exactly what it is. A smear campaign, and it will bring this forum down if it is allowed to continue. I can promise you, Chris, I will never go near anyplace you put the NK/FW discussion, if you put it in its own room or the Crimes section of your forum. Now, I'm done. I could probably go on and on, but I suspect I will be thoroughly attacked and called everything under the sun, but again, I don't care. I'm the person I have to look at in the mirror. I don't need this kind of aggrevation in my life. I would like JW back the way it used to be before a few special interest people came on board. I left yesterday feeling that I have done all I can do, and thinking I wouldn't be back. But, I have come to think of this place as my home, and I clean my home when it becomes cluttered with unnecessary things. JW needs a good house cleaning. It's up to you, Chris. If you think I am the clutter, then throw me out. There are a lot of people looking to see if you will let this travesty continue. The reputation of this forum is at state. I wouldn't blame you if you shut it down, but then, the only winners there would be the killers of JBR. I wouldn't want your job. Thank you for listening to me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "I just got here, " Posted by starry on 05:43:34 5/06/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 05:43:34, 5/06/2001 But, I ditto darby's #16 post. Actually, her #18 post about Ellique is fine with me, also. I just don't see why NK starts up such a ruckus. I haven't seen any FW bashing lately. If people think FW was involved, fine.... so be it. They're entitled to their opinions for whatever reason they have them. I don't think they should label him a pedophile or murderer, though, as the BPD has yet to put him under the umbrella of suspicion. I know, I know,,, how is that different from labeling the Scamsey's and throwing their "good" name under the bus? Well, for starters, there were only 4 known people in the house that night. If you don't believe Burke was involved, that only leaves 3. One of them died. They are the only ones ever labeled by the BPD as under that umbrella, so I think that makes them suspects. As usual, this is only my opinion. Johnny come lately.... edited to add lately. Made a beeeg difference in my post. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Chris" Posted by Twitch on 06:03:48 5/06/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 06:03:48, 5/06/2001 Wy started a thread yesterday in hopes of working this out. Things were going pretty well until the certain posters showed up and slammed a door in her face. Its all or nothing for some. I don't agree with the scroll past mantra. Some posters will contaminate any thread with their anti-FW messages. I posted yesterday, the reasons I think the discussion should be moved to Exploited Children forum. I still think its a good idea.That's all I'm going to say. I got really mad about all of this yesterday and I'm not doing that anymore. I'll keep saying I love JW. I respect all that you do Chris. I know its not easy but something really needs to be done. I apologize for singling out certain posters yesterday. Again, I blew my top. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Watching You" Posted by Greenleaf on 06:52:53 5/06/2001 WY, that was an excellent post; well thought out and stated succinctly. I found nothing to disagree with. In fact,you summed up my thoughts, almost to a "T." I view you as one of the most sensible, intelligent and fair posters on this forum. You are, my dear, a mature voice, ringing out in a wasteland of nonsense. But, remember, you are heard! Sometimes (and I am guilty of this) when we read something really outstanding, like from you, Edie, Dunvegan, reporter (and so many others) we become so moved by the words we fail to respond. I am in awe of the depth of your knowledge of the case, and of the broad scope of your reasoning abilities. All that, combined with your own unique brand of humor, makes for great reads on most all of your posts. The forum will settle down. It always has. Certain people, with obvious personal agendas, are not going to destroy this great forum. No, indeed! We need people like you, WY, to cry out and be heard, and to get us all back on track. I certainly would vote for you to be one of the moderators. Geeze, woman, if you don't step up to the plate, the job is going to be taken by Ellique. Now, WY, you can't do that to us! LOL! Greenleaf [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Greenie" Posted by Watching you on 07:22:06 5/06/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 07:22:06, 5/06/2001 I appreciate your kind words, but I must tell you about me and why I probably would not make a good moderator. First of all, I am honest to a fault. That means I will not compromise my beliefs. Ever. Which also leads some to believe I am opinionated. If opinionated means I form an opinion based on my own value system and my own good logic (and, in spite of comments otherwise, I have a damn good logic system), and I will not be moved from that opinion UNTIL AND UNLESS darn good, logical information proves otherwise, then I am, indeed, opinionated, based upon that criteria. Add that to a bit of a short fuse and an erratic schedule, and throw in the fact that in spite of some's claim that I am the leader of the pack, I am not, nor do I aspire to be and prefer not to be in the limelight in any way, I don't think I would make a good moderator. I am the type to give 100 percent of myself in anything I undertake. To do less as a moderator would not be fair. I know my own shortcomings. I hope others know theirs, too. I wanted to edit this because I want to acknowledge the many fine and sensible posters we have at JW. I am not now nor have I ever been or aspired to be anyone's leader. To say I am is an insult to every intelligent and well-spoken poster we have on here, and I respect every last one of you as an intelligent individual. I am WY. Period. I answer to no one but my own higher power, God. I love intensely and I believe in all that is good. I despise underhandedness and sneakiness. I am not perfect, but I am me. Take me or leave me. I lead no one. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "I'm sorry" Posted by Pennant on 07:20:30 5/06/2001 This is happening on the forum. I really enjoy reading all of the posters' thoughts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "WY, AK" Posted by darby on 08:19:20 5/06/2001 I understand and respect how you feel. I'm trying to see things from your viewpoint. But I really don't see posters outright calling FW the things you say they are lately, with the exception of one time--which I was appalled about, and said so. What I've seen mostly is a few negative things said about FW--few (if any) pertaining to NK--followed by a barrage of ridicule from posters acting as if people had called FW a pervert. Check out Sparky's two threads, and you'll see what I mean. As a matter of fact, I don't think FW himself would appreciate those threads, supposedly in his defense. I'll pose the question--Does ANYONE here feel certain that FW is/was a pervert? Please speak up if you do. For the record, I DON'T!!! That doesn't mean that everyone is 100% positive that NK brought only lies to the BPD. I think that you want everyone to declare that this is how they feel. Unfortunately, at the present time, not everyone can. Many people have grouped those of us who simply feel uncertain about NK into a "coven." If one person says something, it is being assumed that all of the folks who are uncertain about NK--and there are more than FOUR!--must agree with that person. If every one could be treated as individuals, you might notice that only one or two have said things that you find offensive. Every one of us deserves to be treated as an individual. AK--Holly said she has been a moderator since (I think) September, last year. She hasn't the power to ban anyone, and she said that her style is to allow Chris to delete offensive posts. JW has a team of moderators from all viewpoints. Some we know, and I'm assuming some we don't. I think you are making an issue about something that isn't one. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Chris" Posted by Jellyjaws on 07:59:16 5/06/2001 It was good to see your post and know that your sure hand is at the helm. I'm a scroller, myself, but the histrionics and stridency of the NK/FW proponants are becoming irritating and pervasive. It's difficult to ignore. The subject has become, in my opinion, as stale as yesturday's newspaper. For those reasons and for the general good, I would suggest moving those discussions to another area. Sometimes, when people don't have good boundaries, you have to set limits. So many interesting angles arose from the Saturday RMN article. I want read up a bit more this morning and exchange ideas with other posters. That's JW life to me. Thank you Chris, for your hard work for the Forum and for each of us. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "I totally" Posted by Harley on 07:53:09 5/06/2001 agree also with WY #25 post. As Greenleaf said there is nothing she said that I do not agree with. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Darby" Posted by Watching you on 08:23:18 5/06/2001 you have been one of the more restrained - you have questioned. I have no problem with your posts of late. But, the question you have just asked? Does anyone think FW is a pervert? Care should be used in answering that question. The proof is in the past posts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Wy may not be our leader" Posted by freebird on 08:46:50 5/06/2001 But she sure has a way of saying how alot of us feel in a diplomatic (mostly)way. I've said this before, I have no problem with anyone investigating who ever they want, But calling a man a sexual pervert and pedophile is pretty much a death toll for that person. His children could even be being shunned, I would not let my children hang around with a pedo sex ring, and would probably send out a posse to remove them from our community.This little game some people here play with words could have serious side effects for that family, to do this with no evidence is terrible. I try to scroll and scroll and scroll, but it is also a reflection to the rest of us, we read at other forums and see about the fruitloops at JW and people wonder why noone here disagrees with these people and it looks like our silence is acceptance. And lastly as a sexual abused person I am disgusted with people who ring that bell like it is nothing more than their constitional right to do so, this is a very serious issue to anyone who has been there and people shouldn't throw it around so lightly. Crap like that is what makes it hard for others to be heard and believed and that makes my blood boil. I no longer have respect for those who have participated in this. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "Well" Posted by darby on 08:39:29 5/06/2001 Of course we can't really control, nor do we really know, what people think. But what we're talking about is when people outright say it on the forum. I haven't seen a lot of that lately--with one exception. More of that may or may not have happened in the past, but we're talking about what has happened lately...aren't we? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Actually, no, Darby" Posted by Watching you on 08:45:52 5/06/2001 I know I'm hard nosed, but I'm not giving anyone a pass on what happened last year. This has been a continuation of that. There has been some attempt to temper the posts, but the meanings are perfectly clear. It's damn sneaky to say things without actually saying them but the meaning is there for all to see. No one is fooling anyone with the veiled insinuations and snide comments. It's been a full-fledged attempt to smear FW. There is no good reason for it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "There are more than two factions" Posted by Maggie on 10:58:13 5/06/2001 here. There are a few who believe Nancy's allegations. (We've never been told exactly what those allegations are, but apparently they are enough to label a man the most despicable kind of pervert.) There are a few who believe Nancy is a total fraud, and have no problem maligning a possible abuse victim. Then there are the rest of us. I truly believe the vast majority of posters and readers here feel they simply do not have enough information to label Fleet a pervert or Nancy a liar. Unfortunately, if we have the gall to ask a question or request some proof we are called heardhearted, uncaring, unsympathetic, and 'the reason these abuse victims won't come forward with their stories.' We are chastised for not accepting, without question, the conclusions of a couple posters who allegedly have information that would convince us if only they could share it. Although those posters seem to be sincere, honest, and exactly who and what they say they are, for most of us they are really only hats sitting atop posts, on a forum which held a virtual memorial service for a dead poster named 'curious.' I, personally, would like to keep abreast of any developments in the investigation of Nancy's allegations. I appreciated Holly's heads-up re the magazine show/journalist/fraud story recently. Although it started another feeding frenzy it began to answer a question which has lingered since last year...."If there is any truth to this story, why isn't mainstream media investigating and reporting on it?" The answer at the time was that respected journalists WERE chasing this story, and the truth would eventually be told. Apparently we can scratch one of those journalists off the list. It does get tiring, wading through all the garbage to find the tidbits I seek, and there is a year plus of proof there can be no civil discussion of this subject. So no matter where you put these threads, I will have to wear my hip boots occasionally to stay up to date. Bottom line, it won't matter to me where the threads end up, but moving them might have the beneficial effect of putting the red flag where the bull doesn't have to see it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Chris" Posted by watchin' on 10:05:24 5/06/2001 This has been a great forum because it is diversified. There are many differing opinions here and I find something important in most of them. Whether we are discussing the case or the forum dynamics is important to know who did what,where and when and how the act was comitted. When one leaves out discussing the why of the act or the subsequent failure to find resolution to either the forum issues or the Ramsey case, then we are leaving out discusion which leads to understanding of human nature which is paramount in dealing with similiar future situations. It is my opinion that the why of this case is the core issue for most controversy. There are many possible reasons this case has not been solved. There are many persons associated with this case, either directly or by varying degrees of separation who do, whether we like it or not or whether we wish to discuss it, have an affect on the investigation process and the ultimate outcome. I believe we can all agree this case is basicallu dead in the water. Some of us want to discuss why that is so. to do that we must discuss howcertain persons are connected and if there is cause to suspect them to be influential in supressing information or otherwise manipulating evidence and to what degree would that manipulation benefit the one in question. I have NOT discussed FW or insinuated he is involved in the murder of JonBenet. I do, however, believe that IF he indeed snubbed a court order and equated that order to toilet paper by directing ther server to 'stick it', that this is a very important element in this case and goes to privleged citizens. The Ramseys certainly seem to be fair game when discussing privleged suspects, and FW as a key witness should not be exempt. Before any discussion of FW can get off the ground a group bonmbards the thread with accusations that this is going to be a MW thred, thereby halting ANY discussion of FW. If you notice, that has happened on several occasions. I will refer you to the "Koby" thread where a poster had nothing to offer in the wasy of research or discussion but 'crashed' the topic by accusing this of 'going to mw or fw", having NO basis for saying that other than that statement gets topics halted and posters silenced or at war defending the topic. It is my belief that ithis is not merely an issue of MW or FW but an orchestrated effort on the part of some to halt any discussion they may not have researched and cannot post endless opinions on. I could be wrong on that point. Non the less, it an effort to keep the opinions of some out of the forum and I beliecve it is more of a personality issue than topic issue. There is NO evidence of FW being a murderere or a molester. I would NOT even suggest that. However, he was there when JonBenet was found and what if any role he played in innocently or deliberately manipulating evidence at the scene should be up for discussion. Before any of you suggest I am in the 'coven', a name that only serves to further intimidate others from discussing what is important to them, Read the last round of MW threads to see the amount of my involvement. I am merely trying to state that everyone here should be allowed to discuss their pet peeves with this case without intimidation and name calling and having a mass edodus to hold the forum ransom with threats of witdrawing their honored position. Everyone here has brought excellent points to the board with their own research and their own interest. That is how a forum operates successfully. mho. Ihope this can be resolved because I believe the best research and indepth discussions are right here on and when certain topics are not allowed we are left with one MIND. Who's will that be? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "what really bothers" Posted by DuBois on 09:44:13 5/06/2001 the heck out of a lot us is when sombody says " i have a good source that said this or that" but they cannot say who their source is. Or they put out something as fact, which we later find out not to be. Or when a poster uses bait, and then claims that they never said such a thing, we just took the information wrong. My question is, Why say anthing at all? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Listen up!" Posted by Greenleaf on 10:01:25 5/06/2001 I have a scoop. Listen up! My first cousin, once removed, works for a psychiatrist in the southeastern part of the US. I cannot disclose her location, or exactly what she told me, but I want you to know that I know what she told me is true. She has, after all, clearance with INTERPOL and is an agent for one of our most secretive government agencies. (Need I say more, about her creditability?) Well, as we were sipping mint juleps, under her rich granddaddy's veranda, she whispered, rather reluctantly, I might add, that she had some explosive news on the Ram case. Of course, my ears perked up, straightaway. It was not easy, but I got her to tell me what she knew. Ohmygod! You wouldn't believe it! It blew me away! Of course, I cannot tell, as I was sworn to secrecy, for the duration of this lifetime, but I just had to share that with you. Have a nice day. Greenleaf [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "GL" Posted by DuBois on 10:22:08 5/06/2001 Exactly!!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "Dear Friends..." Posted by Pedro on 10:54:43 5/06/2001 ...I think is time for you to know about this. A group of people from chat, people who most never contribute to this forum but to badmouth and plot against others, does hate me personally while for years I thought they were my friends and thus I trusted them. A forum was open in Delphi where my name and last name, my wife's name and last name, mentions to our ex-spouses and their names, all details of my life including pictures, were posted in public. I did give to these posters that information over the years and they did betray me, my wife and my family and even worst, my friendship. These group of posters are the following ones, Pip, Ibnora, Lizzieb, Annette, Sarah and other in minor scale. These posters dislike me because I won't allow them to insult and defame Chris and her husband and get away with it, I wasn't the moderator at JW chat room however I was the only person there who give a shit about JW. They did all kind of approaches to our JW members to drive them to other forums and they continuously have on their actions the worst for JW they could do. The fact that they all log (like cut& paste) the chat sessions make them slave of their fears, so they will lie and twist the truth because they are scare of been exposed here for their words, so they obey to the heads of this evil plots. When do you see any of those posters contribute in daily basis? Never!!!!! I been wrong and I been right, but I don't hide myself and I am always here available to argue and discus anything with anyone. Regarding the poster Maxi, she is a moderator at another forum, a forum that in the past wasn't friendly to us at all, seems that has changed now, I been told. Common respect and courtesy make me not go to other forums and tell them how to moderate, even less in public as maxi did, that's disrespect and against any common courtesy rule. Here in JW we are very open to these things and these thing goes against our interest. I am diplomatic, yes, but did any of you ever try to be diplomatic with 6 or 7 ladies who openly hate men and are telling lies about me and my private life for hours in a chat room while I try to defend myself? Sure I lost my temper, who wouldn't darn it...for God Shake!!! I'm human too!!!!!. Now folks, If you aren't happy with me, post it here, I'll quit, because you are important to me and I love JW I won't hurt JW by my presence, now If you support me, I will request the ban of these elements who contribute with nothing to our community, but evil I am not asking for your support, I am asking for your opinion, post here if you want me in or out, I will follow your wishes as long as the representation is a valid one. Annette, so much for love, If you know what I mean, I didn't knew your feelings at all. I know better than to argue with a scorned woman. AK: Thank you my friend, thank you very much. I will open this thread again next Monday afternoon and make my decision. Take care all. Pedro. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Thanks GL" Posted by Midnight_Wolf on 10:36:05 5/06/2001 Because this astonishing new information has come from you I will believe it wholeheartedly and ask no questions.I mean, after all, we should take everything everyone says at face value. It would be rude to question anyones sources, wouldn't it? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Pedro" Posted by Watching you on 10:59:10 5/06/2001 I want you to stay. Please. I think you have done a fine job. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "Pedro" Posted by DuBois on 11:26:57 5/06/2001 Please stay. I think that you are a very fair person. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Hi Pedro..." Posted by Phantom on 12:11:17 5/06/2001 You have been a perfect moderator here, and of course should stay. :-) I don't go to other forums very often, and usually then when someone saids something is going on. And it's sometimes about she/he said who-knows-what about I never-know what about, so I don't usually read very much and either scroll or look around and then leave. That's why I don't understand the COMPLAINTS about mentioning anything, especially KN or FW. If you don't like it, scroll...... Isn't that what's always done.? I guess it would be handier having a particular place for info or posts, so it doesn't make any difference. Besides, even in a particular place for those NK posts, you know some will complain. Someone always does about something. Right? :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Pedro" Posted by driver on 11:56:48 5/06/2001 a big STAY. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "I agree with those" Posted by Florida on 12:22:13 5/06/2001 who think the Nancy Krebs story belongs in the Missing and Exploited Children forum. All we are asking is that the Nancy Krebs threads be put in the appropriate forum unless there is news that she and/or what she said relates directly to the murder of JonBenet. I don't understand how moving these threads to another forum is censorship since they have nothing to do with the Ramsey case. As far as Ellique being a moderator I think he should first explain why he made a post at Jamesons last month saying he thought it would be a good idea to track the JW posters. Ellique is a charming, witty man but that post disturbed me greatly. Thank you Chris for keeping this forum going through all of this. It can't be a pleasant task but I think you've handled it well. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Pedro" Posted by Twitch on 12:31:03 5/06/2001 Please stay. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Phantom..." Posted by Pedro on 12:38:25 5/06/2001 ....this has nothing to do with NK story when come to me been bashed. I could tell you that Holly and Mame could be considerend personal friends of mine and people I like even if I disagree with them often. This is a revenge from some evil elements for non-JBR related issues mostly. Thanks Phantom. Pedro. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "I didn't think..." Posted by Phantom on 12:51:50 5/06/2001 you being moderator had anything to do NK. I just put in all in one post. I thought about saying that I really appreciated Holly's posts about posting. Very intelligent, and mostly what I meant myself, but don't or can't put into words. And I totally believe in free speech. There's enough users and abusers but usually you can find the truth about most stuff, or what you think is the truth. :-) And, you're welcome. 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