Justice Watch Support JW "MSNBC now" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... MSNBC now, Thor, 18:40:54, 5/13/2001 MSNBC, ayjey, 08:20:51, 5/14/2001, (#1) ayjay, janov, 09:09:51, 5/14/2001, (#2) It really made, ayjey, 09:55:25, 5/14/2001, (#3) Ha ha ha Fruedian slip?, Imbackon, 10:03:08, 5/14/2001, (#4) Imbackon, ayjey, 10:57:43, 5/14/2001, (#7) Imbackon II, ayjey, 11:12:01, 5/14/2001, (#10) Don't , Tricia, 10:07:06, 5/14/2001, (#5) Trisha, ayjey, 11:05:09, 5/14/2001, (#9) I think it excludes an intruder, too,, Cassandra, 10:28:31, 5/14/2001, (#6) Thanks Thor, watchin', 11:03:28, 5/14/2001, (#8) I feel a rant coming on..., Dunvegan, 11:25:22, 5/14/2001, (#11) the clouds have lifted, smellthecoffee, 12:41:01, 5/14/2001, (#14) Dunvegan, janov, 12:01:38, 5/14/2001, (#12) Dun, Gemini, 12:07:40, 5/14/2001, (#13) ................................................................... "MSNBC now" Posted by Thor on 18:40:54 5/13/2001 For anyone interested, just am catching the tail end of the 2 hr special on JB but noticed that coming up at 8:00 CST there is a one-hour JB special on "the latest developments on the murder." This may be the Katie/Lou interview that aired last Tuesday, in case anyone wants to tape it. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "MSNBC" Posted by ayjey on 08:20:51 5/14/2001 I watched the MSNBC "Intruder theory" last night and I now feel that Lou Smit cast enough doubt to completely exclude an "intruder". I was a fence sitter waivering between parent(s) and other but after watching this show, I don't think either parent did this to JonBenet. They may suspect or even know who did it, but I cannot envision John or Patsy killing JonBenet in this manner. There are still a sh..load of things that I can't explain away, but to think someone could listen to their 6 year old daughter gasping and see her clawing at a rope around her neck is just too much for me....IMO. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "ayjay" Posted by janov on 09:09:51 5/14/2001 I agree,the crime was too horrific to consider a parent as perp. Given the information we had;no footprints in the snow,"gently strangled(staged)child","molestation as staging",reports by Arndt of witnessing the "devils cult" group,posturing by Patsy(splaying hands).....and on and on..no wonder we,the public,believed it was possibly a parent. Now that we see the viciousness and animal brutality evidenced in those photos,we really need to rethink what kind of psychopathic animal committed this crime. Poor Patsy,"keep your babies close",has known all along ,while being crucified in the American media. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "It really made" Posted by ayjey on 09:55:25 5/14/2001 things a lot more clear for me after seeing the autopsy photos. This wasn't a mother who lost control, this was a sadistic person who was intent on killing a 6 year old child! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Ha ha ha Fruedian slip?" Posted by Imbackon on 10:03:08 5/14/2001 Here is Ayley, or whatever's first line: I watched the MSNBC "Intruder theory" last night and I now feel that Lou Smit cast enough doubt to completely exclude an "intruder". Think about it... Imbackon [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Imbackon" Posted by ayjey on 10:57:43 5/14/2001 Oops, good catch! Forgot to add theory at the end. I wish I could be as sure of the Ramsey's guilt as some of you here but I can't. (And thank the good lord I will never be the one that has to make that decision.) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Imbackon II" Posted by ayjey on 11:12:01 5/14/2001 Ok, after looking at my correction, I still didn't say what I wanted to say, which is: I think Lou Smit cast enough of a shadow that I can't rule out an intruder. 'nuf said on this! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Don't " Posted by Tricia on 10:07:06 5/14/2001 let the autopsy photos sway you into thinking "a parent couldn't do this". If I had access to them I could show you photos of a normal mother who threw her 7 kids off a 12 story hotel room floor. Or how about the picture of a child who died because his "normal caring parent" lost it and stuffed a tennis ball down his throat (in a brief moment of anger) and killed him. Or how about the pictures of the sweet mother who beat her daughter to death then kept her in a garbage bag until she dumped her in a river. Then had her husband go back a year later and find the skull in the river and crush it until nothing was left. My point is nice normal parents do horrible things to their kids. Why do you think Lou Smit would show these awful pictures on tv? So you would say just what you are saying "A parent would never do that to a child" Oh yes they would. Tricia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Trisha" Posted by ayjey on 11:05:09 5/14/2001 It wasn't only the autopsy photos. My second job is an ambulance attendant and I have seen parents stick their baby's face into a toilet bowl full of lye, I saw 1 baby (5 yrs) that the father held down in a bathtub full of scalding water. I have seen what a parent can and will do. But until we receive more concrete evidence, I think Lou Smit cast THE shadow of a doubt (which is exactly what he intended to do) It does make one want to hesitate before jumping on a bandwagon tho! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "I think it excludes an intruder, too," Posted by Cassandra on 10:28:31 5/14/2001 and puts it right back in the Ramsey home court, but which one? I've been leaning back to Linda Arndt's theory of whodunnit for some time. Cassie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Thanks Thor" Posted by watchin' on 11:03:28 5/14/2001 for the heads up on the programing! I guess we will be subjected to the RamSpin for the entire month of may (sweeps). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "I feel a rant coming on..." Posted by Dunvegan on 11:25:22 5/14/2001 ...And, at all costs, I intend to avoid becoming involved in polemic bickering with the thinly-veiled, poorly-conceived, caricature-like posters and operatives from InterMountain Disinformation Imposters and Outrageous Trespassing Swindlers (e.g., IDIOTS). My hat is off and in the air to Mrs. Brady for her consequent sleuting in pinpointing and pulling the veil off of what "InterMountain Corporate Affairs" has been up to regarding "disinformation". Not that the finely-tuned and sensitive noses of Justice Watch habitutes hadn't already smelled out all the rats. And their cheese. We're not about to take the bait. Now, thanks to Ma Brady, the rat has a name. In their own words: http://www.intermountainca.com/technology.htm InterMountain Corporate Affairs is leading advanced technology communications through the millennium. Not only do we maintain client compatible state-of-the-art hardware and software, we also invest substantially in staying ahead of the communications industry. Through our Advanced Technology Communications department, InterMountain Corporate Affairs offers enhanced services in Strategic Communications, Government Relations, and Economic and Community Development Consulting. Seed search engines and create web rings Maintain 24-hour monitoring of all regional media with online capability Develop virtual agencies to serve your needs in multiple locations Produce multi-media presentations and videos Feed chat rooms and forums with strategic messages Monitor chat rooms, forums, and gossip lines for early warnings of rumors about clients and issues In addition, InterMountain Corporate Affairs maintains a strong information-access capability which utilizes professional private librarians and research firm contacts, as well as our own databases of political information, community, and media, to get the "real" insight. I've worked in Computer Security for over 10 years. What InterMountain is creating as a public relations methodology is nothing more than an institutionalization of one of the more egregious and Orwellian malodorous malificences I have seen purpetrated on the Internet to-date. InterMountain is only selling said service because they developed this methodology...and because they believe it worked. I'll bet anything that they developed this "service" originally while working for the Ramseys...and are now offering it to the lie-buying public-at-large. This sort of tactic smacks of the instituationized disinformation described in Orwell's "1984". It resonates with terms in "1984" like "Newspeak", "Doublethink", "Thoughtcrime", and "Big Brother". This is too much like institutionalized agents who pretend to be something that they are not...all in order to trap or destroy a movement, or to contain "dangerous" opinions. I'm actually very interested in the machinations of this sort of deleterious methodology. I can see that I may well someday be called upon, as an Internet security consultant, to protect a client against just such a "Big Brother-Big Money" campaign of disinformation, and deception-via-infiltration and Internet interference. John Ramsey "wants to change how the world gets its news"...just like any petty despot, or egocentric dictator...just like anyone dependent on lies and disinformation to hide their crimes, and fog-over their guilt. John Ramsey sounds like he'd LOVE to BE Big Brother. And if he can't be, he'll hire a PR firm that runs itself like Orwells "Ministry of Truth" (Newspeak for "Ministry of Propaganda".) Up until the InterMountain debacle, we in the Internet security field had names for these sorts of shenanigans: fraud, deceptive business practice, malicious intrusion, and/or hactivism. My opinion is that it is deplorable for a company (even a PR/Marketing company) to build this sort of madness into their business plan. Morally, this conduct is truly "bankrupt". We know our own minds here at Justice Watch. Personally, I will not joust with the "atavars of avarice". I will not answer or interact with bought and paid-for Ramsey flacks and flunkies. Be gone or stay. I do not care. I know my own mind. From "A Summary and Interpretation of George Orwell's "1984" Doublethink Doublethink is a kind of manipulation of the mind. Generally one could say that Doublethink makes people accept contradictions, and it makes them also believe, that, the party is the only institution that distinguishes between right and wrong. This manipulation is mainly done by the Minitrue (Ministry of Truth), where Winston Smith works. When a person that is well grounded in Doublethink recognizes a contradiction or a lie of the Party, then the person thinks that he is remembering a false fact. The use of the word Doublethink involves doublethink. With the help of the Minitrue it is not only possible to change written facts, but also facts that are remembered by the people. So complete control of the country and it's citizens is provided. The fact of faking the history had already been used by the Nazis, who told the people that already German Knights believed in the principles of National Socialism. Newspeak Newspeak is the official language...the purpose of Newspeak is not only to provide medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to devotees of Ingsoc, but to make all other methods of thought impossible. Another reason for developing Newspeak is, to make old books, or books which were written before the era of the Party, unreadable. With Newspeak ,Doublethink would be even easier. Its vocabulary is so constructed as to give exact and often very subtle expression to every meaning that a Party member could properly wish to express, while excluding all other meanings and also the possibility of arriving at them by indirect methods. From the foregoing account it is very easy to see that in Newspeak the expression of unorthodox opinions, above a very low level, is impossible. It is only possible to say "Big Brother is ungood". But this statement can't be sustained by reasoned arguments, because the necessary words are not available. Ideas inimical to Ingsoc can only be entertained in a very vague and wordless form, and can only be named in very broad terms. One could in fact only use Newspeak for political unorthodoxy, by illegitimately translating some of the words back into Oldspeak. For example "All mans are equal" was a possible Newspeak sentence, but only in the same sense in which "All man have the same weight" is a possible Oldspeak sentence. It did not contain a grammatical error, but it expressed a palpable untruth i.e. that all man have the same size, weight ..... The concept of political equality no longer existed. In 1984, when Oldspeak is still the normal mean of communication, the danger theoretically exists that in using Newspeak words one might remember their original meanings. In practice it is not difficult for a person well grounded in Doublethink to avoid doing this, but within a couple of generation even the possibility of such a lapse would have vanished. A person growing up with Newspeak as his sole language would no more know that equal had once had the secondary meaning of "politically equal" (also free,....). There would be many crimes and errors which would be beyond of the power to commit, simply because there were nameless and therefore unimaginable. "War is Peace", "Ignorance is Strength", "Freedom is Slavery", "Guilt is Innocence". ---- "In my humble and constitutionally protected opinion, Robert Blake looks like the guilty party." -- Marsha Clark to FOX News ---- "In my humble and constitutionally protected opinion, the Ramseys look like the guilty parties." -- Dunvegan to Justice Watch [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "the clouds have lifted" Posted by smellthecoffee on 12:41:01 5/14/2001 So, I was right! Have been thrown out of two forums and now I know why. Intermountain Corporate Affairs must be seeking out all and any persons who really speak their minds on JBR murder. I am so relieved to find this information. Now, the big question is what do we do about it. We are all pawns waiting for the ax to fall. When I phoned, emailed and tried to communicate with compuserve for six weeks, they gave me misinformation until I was dizzy. We need to fight back and I'm willing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL smellthecoffee ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Dunvegan" Posted by janov on 12:01:38 5/14/2001 I'm not baa'ing,but I understand exactly what you are saying. Large numbers of people throughout history have been heavily influenced by others who project the "right" way. It is easy to conform,very difficult to be independent in ones thinking. What are the current polls saying in the Ramsey case? What percent believe in their guilt? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Dun" Posted by Gemini on 12:07:40 5/14/2001 Great post. You may also want to factor in how heavily many who have an interest in the Ramsey case were influenced by the the tabloids and popular media pundits in the early years of this case. It's all part of the same mindset. However, I agree the current efforts are more deliberate, directed and organized. Personally, I think all mind manipulation sucks. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]