Justice Watch Discussion Board "Breaking News" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Breaking News, mame, 13:38:46, 5/15/2000 mame, Sioux, 13:52:18, 5/15/2000, (#1) News Report (KOA) 5/15, straykat2, 14:01:25, 5/15/2000, (#2) I hope, darby, 14:27:55, 5/15/2000, (#3) BPD News Release, Anderson, 14:39:49, 5/15/2000, (#4) OK...I'm on point..., Cassandra, 14:40:59, 5/15/2000, (#5) Looks like, luvsflowers, 14:43:11, 5/15/2000, (#6) Thanks, Anderson, Cassandra, 14:44:41, 5/15/2000, (#7) SECOND time?, Seashell, 15:06:03, 5/15/2000, (#9) Right On!, Paralegal, 18:53:41, 5/15/2000, (#43) I propose, Sioux, 15:15:45, 5/15/2000, (#11) But seriously, folks,, Cassandra, 14:59:00, 5/15/2000, (#8) Release/page one, mame, 15:10:12, 5/15/2000, (#10) Seashell--she may well be, fiddler, 15:40:31, 5/15/2000, (#15) Thanks, mame, shadow, 15:31:42, 5/15/2000, (#12) Yup, Real Stormy, 15:38:56, 5/15/2000, (#13) release/page2, mame, 15:40:16, 5/15/2000, (#14) MW, NOVA, 16:25:38, 5/15/2000, (#23) more in a bit..., mame, 15:57:14, 5/15/2000, (#16) There is a Bright Side, Ruthee, 16:20:49, 5/15/2000, (#21) thanks mame, pip, 16:03:03, 5/15/2000, (#17) Thanks mame,, Country Girl, 16:19:53, 5/15/2000, (#20) Time for the internet sleuths, mary99, 16:17:26, 5/15/2000, (#19) Pip - Mame, Anderson, 16:15:52, 5/15/2000, (#18) Mary99>>, ayelean, 16:40:12, 5/15/2000, (#24) Mame, Ruthee, 16:24:43, 5/15/2000, (#22) NOVA, Real Stormy, 16:55:13, 5/15/2000, (#26) To Real Stormy, NOVA, 18:45:03, 5/15/2000, (#41) Interesting, lake, 16:41:57, 5/15/2000, (#25) Thank You Mame, momo, 17:31:18, 5/15/2000, (#28) momo, NOVA, 18:59:17, 5/15/2000, (#45) Nova , momo, 19:29:59, 5/15/2000, (#59) And, lake, 17:05:30, 5/15/2000, (#27) Momo, Real Stormy, 18:00:06, 5/15/2000, (#31) Real Stormy, momo, 18:19:48, 5/15/2000, (#32) Lake , momo, 17:59:46, 5/15/2000, (#30) Well, momo, lake, 18:42:31, 5/15/2000, (#40) So sad, starry, 17:46:53, 5/15/2000, (#29) Mary99, Nova, Mame, Morgan, 18:32:25, 5/15/2000, (#37) Momo, Real Stormy, 18:27:52, 5/15/2000, (#35) It's not wishful thinking , momo, 18:36:21, 5/15/2000, (#38) This didn't tell me, darby, 18:23:10, 5/15/2000, (#33) Darby, momo, 18:27:46, 5/15/2000, (#34) momo, darby, 18:31:49, 5/15/2000, (#36) Right Darby, momo, 18:41:56, 5/15/2000, (#39) Here's a question, darby, 18:54:04, 5/15/2000, (#44) Darby , momo, 19:10:33, 5/15/2000, (#50) So,momo, lake, 18:52:00, 5/15/2000, (#42) How about this? , darby, 19:09:20, 5/15/2000, (#49) Darby, momo, 19:12:38, 5/15/2000, (#51) Lake, momo, 19:02:34, 5/15/2000, (#47) darby, lake, 19:00:01, 5/15/2000, (#46) No, momo, lake, 19:05:29, 5/15/2000, (#48) Momo and Darby>>, ayelean, 19:21:05, 5/15/2000, (#55) lake, darby, 19:19:02, 5/15/2000, (#54) Yeah Lake , momo, 19:14:49, 5/15/2000, (#52) Well, momo, lake, 19:18:55, 5/15/2000, (#53) LOL, Denver, 19:28:02, 5/15/2000, (#57) Dare I say it Ayelean?, Real Stormy, 19:24:46, 5/15/2000, (#56) Yeh, R/S, lake, 19:29:29, 5/15/2000, (#58) ayelean, darby, 19:36:58, 5/15/2000, (#61) Lake, Real Stormy, 19:32:02, 5/15/2000, (#60) Well, lake, 19:37:39, 5/15/2000, (#62) so many messages, pat, 19:58:24, 5/15/2000, (#66) Lake, Real Stormy, 19:43:12, 5/15/2000, (#63) But Real Stormy>>>, ayelean, 19:56:59, 5/15/2000, (#65) ayelean>>>so true...!, mary99, 20:09:19, 5/15/2000, (#67) Well, R/S, lake, 19:47:12, 5/15/2000, (#64) hmmmmm, lee2, 00:10:03, 5/16/2000, (#76) Lake, Real Stormy, 20:21:54, 5/15/2000, (#68) Yes, Ayelean, Real Stormy, 20:24:35, 5/15/2000, (#69) Never Ending..., shadow, 20:57:01, 5/15/2000, (#71) mary99, lake, 20:51:04, 5/15/2000, (#70) Ramseys framed, lake?, mary99, 21:06:12, 5/15/2000, (#73) Lake, I'm getting scared, Real Stormy, 20:59:13, 5/15/2000, (#72) Well, I'm back at the deli counter,, Holly, 21:24:19, 5/15/2000, (#74) MW/FW info..., mary99, 21:44:31, 5/15/2000, (#75) curiouser and curiouser,, listener, 00:19:23, 5/16/2000, (#77) So, lake, 01:29:36, 5/16/2000, (#78) Mary99, Morgan, 04:49:35, 5/16/2000, (#79) darby & lake & mame, fly, 08:00:34, 5/16/2000, (#80) All Too Typical, Lacey, 08:10:31, 5/16/2000, (#81) if you're into getting between the lines...., fly, 08:23:37, 5/16/2000, (#82) Thanks, fly , darby, 10:15:44, 5/16/2000, (#83) too sinister to contemplate., becky, 11:14:44, 5/16/2000, (#84) ................................................................... "Breaking News" Posted by mame on 13:38:46 5/15/2000 The Boulder Police Department released a lengthy statement concerning the investigation into the Mystery Witness. I just received a copy. I am scanning it and will post in a few moments. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "mame" Posted by Sioux on 13:52:18 5/15/2000 YEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAA!!!!! Sioux [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "News Report (KOA) 5/15" Posted by straykat2 on 14:01:25 5/15/2000 I just heard a radio news report that the BPD has decided that MW is not relevant to the JBR case. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "I hope" Posted by darby on 14:27:55 5/15/2000 the Whites are addressed so that this can be put to rest--one way or the other. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "BPD News Release" Posted by Anderson on 14:39:49 5/15/2000 News Release May 15, 2000 City's Home Page http://www.ci.boulder.co.us BOULDER POLICE END INVESTIGATION INTO CALIFORNIA WOMAN'S REPORT Boulder Police and prosecutors have concluded an investigation that began in February when a 37-year-old California woman reported her belief that JonBenet Ramsey was murdered as part of a child sex ring. The investigation found no additional evidence to support this theory. In February, the woman contacted the Boulder Daily Camera with allegations of a child sex abuse conspiracy involving her own family members, the Ramsey family and close friends of the Ramseys. The woman also claimed that some of her own family members were at a party attended by JonBenet Ramsey and her parents on December 25, 1996, just prior to JonBenet's death. The woman believed JonBenet was likely killed at the party by adults who sexually and physically abused her. Boulder Police spent about 11 weeks investigating the allegations, which included conducting 22 interviews, reviewing medical and psychological records, reviewing photographs and recordings, consulting with a forensic psychiatrist, and comparing the allegations against physical evidence and current knowledge of the case. As a result, Boulder Police and prosecutors working on the case have concluded that other than the woman's statements, there is no evidence to support this theory of JonBenet's murder. "The Boulder Police have spent a significant amount of time investigating the claims made by this woman and her attorney," Prosecutor Mike Kane said. "There is simply no credible evidence to link anything she alleges to the death of JonBenet. The expenditure of additional police and prosecutorial resources is unwarranted." Boulder Police have made no judgments or conclusions about abuse the woman may have suffered in prior years in California. It is well established that she was a victim of sexual abuse in 1979-80, for which a suspect was arrested and convicted. However, the current investigation did not find any connection between the abuse she suffered and the death of JonBenet Ramsey. Boulder Police have forwarded information to the FBI in reference to some of the woman's allegations regarding the operation of a child sex ring. Police also advised her to contact California authorities with any information she has regarding crimes that may have occurred in California. This is the second time Boulder Police have investigated the possibility of JonBenet's death being connected to a "sex ring" or pornographic operation involving numerous people. On each occasion, no credible evidence was found to support such speculation. "We needed to take the time to complete a thorough investigation," Police Chief Mark Beckner said. "Unfortunately, the allegations have led to speculation that Fleet and Priscilla White, former close friends of the Ramseys and hosts of the 1996 Christmas party, were somehow involved in the sexual abuse and death of JonBenet. We have no evidence whatsoever to support this and have never had evidence to support such an allegation. Nor do we have any evidence that John and Patsy Ramsey were part of or participated in a child sex ring operation." Because she is a sexual assault victim, Boulder Police are not releasing the name of the California woman. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "OK...I'm on point..." Posted by Cassandra on 14:40:59 5/15/2000 Just tell me whether to fasten or unfasten my seatbelt before I hang myself! Cassie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Looks like" Posted by luvsflowers on 14:43:11 5/15/2000 Mike Kane is back into the action. Wonder if he was in Boulder to give that comment to the reporter? Didnt a summit take place recently? I wonder about the results. Was anything reported? luvs [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Thanks, Anderson" Posted by Cassandra on 14:44:41 5/15/2000 I was on tenterhooks, whatever those are! At least I'm out of that seatbelt! Cassie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "SECOND time?" Posted by Seashell on 15:06:03 5/15/2000 "second time Boulder Police have investigated the possibility of JonBenet's death being connected to a "sex ring" or pornographic operation involving numerous people. On each occasion, no credible evidence was found to support such speculation." Was the first time shortly after her death when the computers were seized. What does it mean that the BPD turned over the info to the FBI? I thought the FBI was investigating this. And how come this release sounds like the BPD investigated thoroughly when their previous statements indicated that they were blase and ho hum? Is it just me, or does this release sound very political? Is it over now? Is she in hiding forever? Did or did not FW Sr. offer her hush money? If he did, I WANT TO KNOW WHY? (I thought that deserved a shout) I want to hear her story. I want to know why Hill and Mame found her so credible. And I really want to know about the White connection - proven or not. How can we decide for ourselves about the connection to JBR if we're given this drivel by the BPD? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "Right On!" Posted by Paralegal on 18:53:41 5/15/2000 I so totally agree with you Seashell, maybe now it's time for this poor woman's story to go public via Mame and BJ. I'm sorry, but I do not trust any "official" in Boulder CO making any kind of determination what is and isn't relevant. I have long suspected that JB's death involved that Christmas party (gut instinct) at the Whites, and as far as I'm concerned, this clinches it. Please Mame, please share with us what you can about the evidence in this situation. Seems the only way things are going to get done is if WE the PPL do something ourselves. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "I propose" Posted by Sioux on 15:15:45 5/15/2000 someone, mame or whoever, answer seashell's questions in the above post. I think this is again, a release of info that leaves more questions unanswered. Sioux [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "But seriously, folks," Posted by Cassandra on 14:59:00 5/15/2000 where does this leave MW? Does she have to live on the run? Go into Witness Protection? Cassie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Release/page one" Posted by mame on 15:10:12 5/15/2000 http://www.zing.com/album/pictures.html?id=4294543079&p=4290392861 [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Seashell--she may well be" Posted by fiddler on 15:40:31 5/15/2000 credible, and telling the absolute truth about her own personal experience, while at the same time not being "relevant" to the Ramsey case. If the physical evidence doesn't check out with her story, or if a personal connection can't be established, then MW's information might be interesting--but ultimately, not applicable to JonBenet. Just because there might be some similarities doesn't mean that whatever MW alleges happened to her, also must have happened to JBR. I think it's admirable and praiseworthy of mame to practice compassion-in-action for an obviously exploited, and suffering, person. Whether MW has any relevance to the JBR case or not is really beside the point. Many of the people on this forum have experienced bereavement of some kind, or sexual or physical abuse--it's probably why this particular case strikes such a deep chord with them. And, in the process of exchanging thoughts, we've become a community. If MW can find some degree of listening, acceptance, compassion, and healing through contact with members of this community, then however she came into this case was worth it. Thanks, mame, for letting us know the latest. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Thanks, mame" Posted by shadow on 15:31:42 5/15/2000 The fact that the BPD finds no "link" to the JBR case, doesn't mean the FBI isn't checking-out the rest of MW's allegations. shadow [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Yup" Posted by Real Stormy on 15:38:56 5/15/2000 About what I expected--no link. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "release/page2" Posted by mame on 15:40:16 5/15/2000 http://www.zing.com/album/pictures.html?id=4294543079 [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "MW" Posted by NOVA on 16:25:38 5/15/2000 Hello, All. I've been lurking on this forum for about a year and finally decided to post. I am a woman's advocate, rape crisis counselor, and volunteer for a local battered women's shelter in Northern California. I became intrigued with MW's story because it bore several similarities to some of my former clients who were also victims of intergenerational incest and abuse by people in positions of wealth and power. Like MW, most of these women had a difficult time pressing charges against their perpetrators because of the perpetrators connections. (Most of the victims did not want to make a big fuss via publicity, lawsuits, or the tabloids, they just wanted some peace from their tormentors and a sense of safety.) I know that I may sound paranoid, but I've been a volunteer for almost twenty years and have witnessed threats and intimidation towards some of these poor women. Regarding Mystery Woman--at least she wasn't labeled a looney tunes by the BPD, not that it matters much since the Boulder authorities have decided to pass the buck back to their California brethren who have viewed her as a nutcase. Mystery Woman, my prayers are with you. Sad, frustrating situations have taught me that true justice doesn't always come in this lifetime. I hope that you find peace and safety with victims like yourself who will do their best to nurture and protect you from the evil people who brutalized you. I still find it hard to understand why there is so much disbelief from people who don't want to confront the fact that there are child/adolescent sex-rings consisting of members who wear the mask of power, wealth, and respectability. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "more in a bit..." Posted by mame on 15:57:14 5/15/2000 i'll be posting a statement from lee hill...after i track him down. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "There is a Bright Side" Posted by Ruthee on 16:20:49 5/15/2000 I hope the good that comes from this episode is that Jane Doe gets the help she needs and that if there are crimes coninuing in California, they are investigated and prosecuted. One thing lingers in the back of my mind. I believe that Jane Doe received a card showing a bear with a heart signed with a first name. Who sent the card? Who knew enough about her experiences and the JonBenet experience to know that there would be another "wild bear chase" connected to JonBenet's murder? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "thanks mame" Posted by pip on 16:03:03 5/15/2000 That part 2 link is a picture of you and "da boys" - I'm thinking you meant to post a link to page 2 of the press release? pip [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Thanks mame," Posted by Country Girl on 16:19:53 5/15/2000 You are a special person. You walk the walk lady. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Time for the internet sleuths" Posted by mary99 on 16:17:26 5/15/2000 It's time for MW to think about releasing her info, as much or as little as she wishes, to the media, whether through BJ and Mame on an internet broadcast, through an investigative show like 20/20, or through Lee Hill. Let us know! There are enough brains and sleuths here at JW to equal if not surpass what the BPD accomplished, not that what they accomplished is so very much. How a woman who is apparently credible to Lee Hil and Mame has been ultimately brushed off by the BPD is nothing short of yet another instance of justice failed. I'm not satisfied that 'a full and complete investigation' ever took place. And my cynicism about the ability of the BPD to do such a full and complete investigation has been confirmed. I trust the people here at JW more than the BPD! When and only when our on-board sleuths can say there's nothing there will I believe it. I would love to have the privilege of hearing MW speak directly of her story and her allegations with Mame. She deserves to have her story told. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Pip - Mame" Posted by Anderson on 16:15:52 5/15/2000 On the drop down box on Mame's page, pull down to Page 2 and you'll see the scan of the second page of the press release. Thanks Mame for scanning in the actual copy of the release. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Mary99>>" Posted by ayelean on 16:40:12 5/15/2000 You are feeling what I am feeling. A sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that law enforcement just doesn't get it. It is an intuitive thing that most women and a few men are able to grasp. Saying that, I am being kind to the BPD by not saying that they could very well be covering for one of their own. I wish I had enough trust in the law to know that they look under every rock and don't ignore the slime they might find. I am so afraid that the FBI will bungle this and that MW will be left for the wolves. Even though I think it is a distinct possibility that much of the similiarities are smoke screen that is fogging what really happened here. That being that the MW's information is correct but no one is seeing how that information was being used in JBR's murder. Mame, I wish you could clarify what you know I want to hear. If the BPD and the FBI minimize this facet of the case will you in some way help MW to make all this public? I think that if Patsy knows about this MO either from the MW or Pricilla White, it is the smoking gun for JBR's murder. Mary99, please do not stop posting, you are in my head and saying what I want said. Thanx [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Mame" Posted by Ruthee on 16:24:43 5/15/2000 I forgot to say thank you for bringing this to our attention, and you too Anderson. The instant interesting point is that this information is realeased right on the tail of the Daily Camera piece and letters to the paper from Fleet White's attorneys. I guess it got to the point where enough is enough. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "NOVA" Posted by Real Stormy on 16:55:13 5/15/2000 I have heard one time too many that those of us who are sceptical of MW's story refuse to believe that there are child sex rings operating and they sometimes involve powerful, wealthy people. I ADMIT it, OK? Does being cognizant of that fact require that everyone believe every screwy story that is put forth? Without evidence? Destroying people's reputations without cause? This unfortunate woman apparently experienced some extremely traumatic episodes in her life. I don't know what they were and neither do you. I will take the word of people who have looked at her evidence and have determined that there is no link to the Ramsey murder. Face the fact, lady. The MW crusade ends here. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "To Real Stormy" Posted by NOVA on 18:45:03 5/15/2000 "Face the fact, lady. The MW crusade ends here." Did I say that MW's story positively relates to the death of JonBenet? Hmmmmm? I assume (since you have assumed my thoughts on the matter) that you are one of those individuals who find it hard to believe most abuse survivors stories unless you have witnessed the perpetrator in the act. Oh, I've come across a few phonies in my time, but many victims of incest and child abuse usually are telling the truth and rarely want to go public with their "incredible tales", especially if it involves a relative or a respected member of the community. Some victims come forward if they feel that others may believe them or that they may save potential victims. MW fits this profile to a T. I doubt if she will sell her story to the Tabloids or go on Geraldo anytime soon. The women's justice center where I volunteer has several files of such silent victims. These women are not all liars, nutcases, and fruitloops. They usually have something to back up their claims. Mystery Woman has a conviction in her past--a lot more than most victims can lay claim to, sad to say. Oh, and the "crusade", as you so lamely stated, is NOT OVER. There are still plenty of us out there who are willing to help victims of abuse, no matter what their connection is to JonBenet Ramsey's horrific murder. I doubt if you would ever dirty your hands over such UNBELIEVABLE people. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Interesting" Posted by lake on 16:41:57 5/15/2000 " The investigation found no additional evidence to support this theory." I think the word additional is important. I would say they have some evidence to support the theory, but no additional evidence from Jane Doe. But certainly the idea of the Whites and Ramseys being in some sexual abuse of kids ring is waaaay out in left field. This seems to be more of a secret molester type of event. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Thank You Mame" Posted by momo on 17:31:18 5/15/2000 for bringing us this latest information concerning MW. If nothing else can be learned from MW it's this. MW obviously felt that after she found out about the murder of JonBenet there were striking similarities. She came forward to see if what had happened to her could have happened to JBR. That's the gist of it. If anyone dosen't understand that then you have no reason to be here other than for JfJBR. We are all here for the same reason(except for the few who have other reasons to be here, you know who you are). Real Stormy, I don't think NOVA was even talking about you. She is a lurker and said that she just decided to post because of the MW story. She works with women such as MW. I think that the reason some of us choose to believe MW's story is because many of us here have suffered from abuse of various sorts and can easily understand. I don't come from the picture perfect world that some do. So considering what I went through as a child, I am more apt to believe someone who says they were abused. But that's just me. And I can understand that people who have been sheltered and brought up as children should be don't understand. I hope MW recieves the justice she deserves. Will she decide to be interviewed? I'm sure if she is telling the truth noone will sue her for liable. She should tell the whole world. Someone needs to be a voice for abused children. She has nothing to lose since she's left every last stitch of her life behind. Mame please keep us updated. Whether she is of any use to the case or not isn't important at this juncture. If MW was JonBenet would some of us treat her so harshly? I think not. Or at least I would hope not. momo [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "momo" Posted by NOVA on 18:59:17 5/15/2000 "MW obviously felt that after she found out about the murder of JonBenet there were striking similarities. She came forward to see if what had happened to her could have happened to JBR. That's the gist of it." Yup, that's how I feel about it. Although I do think that JonBenet may have possibly been abused, (the sexualization of her pageant performances were creepy)I doubt if we will ever know the truth about her short life. Oh, and no need for you to defend me against the likes of Real Stormy. I only flame back once and then I am done with it. It's not worth my time, especially when the poster assumes what my JonBenet theories are. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "Nova " Posted by momo on 19:29:59 5/15/2000 I think it's great that you give of yourself in the way that you do. To work with abused women is such an unselfish act. You are an inspiration to those in the same position MW finds herself in. I wasn't defending you(okay I was) as much as I was trying to get a point across(don't think I really did). I just try to live life fairly. We must be fair and just and reasonable here. I have always been the "victims advocate" when it comes to defending those who feel less than important in any way, shape or form. I can't help it. It's in my blood. I've always thought I should choose a job that deals with those less fortunate. Like abused children, for instance. As far as JonBenet's life, and how it might have been, lets just say this. No way would I want that waman being my mother. She's not nice. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "And" Posted by lake on 17:05:30 5/15/2000 As far as linking the Jane Doe experiences to the crime of JBR, the BPD has not even found enough evidence in over 3 years to link the Ramsey parents to the murder of JBR that is strong enough to charge them with a crime. And they were known to be in the house at the time of the crime. Some of the other peotential suspects may just been guests in the house at one time or another. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Momo" Posted by Real Stormy on 18:00:06 5/15/2000 Since I feel that MW's story is not relevant to the JBR murder, and apparently, unless one is into conspiracy theories, neither does the BPD, I was included in Nova's group who, because they are sceptical of MW's story, don't acknowledge that child sex rings exist. In order to refute her charges, I acknowledged that such perversions exist. Now, let me ask you a question. You were sexually abused as a child. I take you at your word. Does that require you to suspend common sense when you hear of someone's claim that they were abused? Wouldn't that require you to carefully consider the story and look at the evidence presented before you would accept it? It seems to me that if I were in your position and such a claim is made, I would want to make darn sure that it was true. To do anything else would be to trivialize your experience and do great harm to the cause of stopping this kind of abuse from occurring. For myself, because such sexual child abuse is so horrendous and so debilitating, I am happy to learn that JBR was not a victim of such a ring of perverts. And, because of your experience, I should think you would be happy that there was one less child who was abused in this manner. Murdering her was enough. To think that she could have suffered for many months prior to her death would be devastating. I am glad that she did not. And furthermore, I hope that, when you became an adult, you took steps to see that whoever abused you was called to account for it. It is, in my opinion, one of the worst, most vicious crimes that humans can commit. And that is why I take unsubstantiated accusations so seriously. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Real Stormy" Posted by momo on 18:25:22 5/15/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:25:22, 5/15/2000 I was never sexually abused as a child. I was physically and emotionally abused. There is evidence that MW was sexually abused. Just because her story dosen't connect with the JBR murder, does not make her abuse any less than it is. JBR was sexually abused IMO. The autopsy clears that up for me. Just because you think there was no child porn ring does not mean that JBR was NOT sexually abused. I don't understand what your point is there. Just because the BPD finds no connection does not mean she was not abused in a sexual manner. Is JBR's abuse any less because it was not done by several people, but only one or two? Please try not to take what I have said so personally. I saw nothing in Nova's post or mine to set you off like you seem to be. Be nice to the newbies. Edited to say I do not even begin to enter the realm of understanding why people would say they have been abused when they haven't. Why would sameone do that? Maybe people do. Why is beyond me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Lake " Posted by momo on 17:59:46 5/15/2000 The BPD had enough evidence and probable cause. The DA, on the other hand, hasn't tried a murder in 28 years. Do the math. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Well, momo" Posted by lake on 18:42:31 5/15/2000 The BPD detectives assigned to the JBR case had never worked a homicide. Do the math. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "So sad" Posted by starry on 17:46:53 5/15/2000 My heart goes out to MW. I hope she is able to hang in there. The BPD is obviously covering their asses. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Mary99, Nova, Mame" Posted by Morgan on 18:32:25 5/15/2000 Mary99....I admire your determination and faith in the powers of internet sleuthing. Nova....Thank you for posting. You are so right. Mame....Please tell Lee Hill if he thinks it's a great idea to dump all of MW's story into the hands of the Ramsey's, then he's a fool not to enlighten the internet community. We are here because we care about justice. Lou Smit and the Ram private dick have other agendas. BPD....Could you possibly be any more inept? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Momo" Posted by Real Stormy on 18:31:11 5/15/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:31:11, 5/15/2000 Honey, that WAS nice. You should see me when I'm not nice. As to whether or not JBR was sexually abused prior to the night of her death, there is disagreement among the experts. If you read Steve Thomas' book,you will know that the experts he cites feel that the pre-existing vaginal trauma was secondary to physical abuse. In any event, I will make my determination, for myself only, on the word of the experts who know about these things, rather than self-styled forum experts who engage, for whatever personal reasons, in wishful thinking. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "It's not wishful thinking " Posted by momo on 18:36:21 5/15/2000 on my part that JBR was sexually abused to fit into any scenario I might have as to what happened the night she was MURDERED. Her hymen was corroded. There was chronic inflammation. She was sexually abused that night and previously. No more to say about this. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "This didn't tell me" Posted by darby on 18:23:10 5/15/2000 what I wanted to know. I do believe that the BPD was unable to link MW to JBR. BJ's article already told us as much. However... There was more at stake here than just the JBR case. Besides, just because the BPD didn't find anything yet doesn't mean that there is no connection. In a nutshell: Did MW document abuse by Fleet White (Sr. and/or Jr.) prior to the murder? If not, the BPD owes it to the Whites to tell us! If so, the BPD owes the public, parents of young children in Boulder, and especially MW, to tell us! Yes? No? Either way, it's not fair to ANYONE not to tell the public the whole truth on this question. When is someone--anyone--going to step forward and speak the whole truth? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "Darby" Posted by momo on 18:27:46 5/15/2000 Have you noticed how quiet both the White's and Ramsey's have been about MW. Thing that make you go hhhhmmmm. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "momo" Posted by darby on 18:31:49 5/15/2000 Yes. You would think they'd both be screaming so loud (for opposing reasons), the whole world would hear them. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Right Darby" Posted by momo on 18:41:56 5/15/2000 The Ramsey's should have mentioned the investigation into MW's allegations on at least one of their interviews, wouldn't you think? The White's would have said something before the day before the release of the BPD's statement in regards to MW, wouldn't you think? I've said it before and I'll say it again. The silence is deafening. I know two families who may be breathing a sigh of relief now. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Here's a question" Posted by darby on 18:58:22 5/15/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:58:22, 5/15/2000 or two. Reading this paragraph... "We needed to take the time to complete a thorough investigation," Police Chief Mark Beckner said. "Unfortunately, the allegations have led to speculation that Fleet and Priscilla White, former close friends of the Ramseys and hosts of the 1996 Christmas party, were somehow involved in the sexual abuse and death of JonBenet. We have no evidence whatsoever to support this and have never had evidence to support such an allegation. Nor do we have any evidence that John and Patsy Ramsey were part of or participated in a child sex ring operation." I notice it says these two things: A) There's no evidence that Fleet or Priscilla White had anything to do with the sexual abuse or death of JonBenet. B) There's no evidence that John and Patsy Ramsey were part of or participated in a child sex ring operation. You know, I think that MW's sex ring claims were about the Whites, not the Ramseys. Weren't they? Is there perhaps a deliberate omission here or am I just extremely observant? LOL--either answer is fine with me. Maybe I should go back and re-read the article, you think? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Darby " Posted by momo on 19:10:33 5/15/2000 Yeah, I noticed that the BPD didn't exonerate the White's from being part of a sex porn ring. Just that they had nothing to do with the abuse or death Of JBR. Opposite with the Rams. Said they had no participation in child sex porn ring but did not exonerate them from participating in the murder. Now, we know that the BPD thinks the Rams are guilty and with good reason. But to not say that the White's were not a part of a child sex ring is very telling. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "So,momo" Posted by lake on 18:53:49 5/15/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:53:49, 5/15/2000 What does that suggest really? FW attempts to get Hunter removed when it is Hunter and not the BPD that the Rs are saying is attempting to be fair and objective and the cops are not. And yet JR says he still considers FW as a friend. Lee Hill tells JR that FW is working with the tabloids, and yet JR says he still considers FW a friend. Hunter himself comments to Singular that FW appears mad a hell, but the Whites have nothing bad to say about the Ramseys. The Ramseys fail to take advantage of the MW angle when it connects to the Whites. It is clear that both families are hiding something. And the longer this thing goes on, the more apparent it is what they are hiding. And the cops can't touch them. Either family. Interesting, is it not? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "How about this? " Posted by darby on 19:40:01 5/15/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:40:01, 5/15/2000 Boulder Police have forwarded information to the FBI in reference to some of the woman's allegations regarding the operation of a child sex ring. Police also advised her to contact California authorities with any information she has regarding crimes that may have occurred in California. Okay--so the Boulder police have no evidence that John and Patsy Ramsey were in a sex ring. However, the BPD has forwarded information to the the FBI in reference to some of the woman's allegations regarding the operation of a child sex ring. What does this mean? Does this mean that while John and Patsy didn't appear to be in a sex ring, there IS information worthy of forwarding to the FBI concerning the operation of a child sex ring? Who? What? Where? How? Huh? What crimes could have occurred in California? Who was with MW in California to abuse her that hasn't already been convicted? Methinks this is a verrrrrry carefully worded statement. Maybe that's why it took so long to get it out. You don't have to read between the lines, really--Just read the lines. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Darby" Posted by momo on 19:12:38 5/15/2000 Exactly!!!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Lake" Posted by momo on 19:02:34 5/15/2000 I can't keep up with your confusing posts. I'd think you'd be mad as hell that MW didn't pan out. I think you like the fact that the Rams and the White's can't be touched by the cops, as you say. Am I getting warm yet? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "darby" Posted by lake on 19:00:01 5/15/2000 Good observation. Like the no additional evidence comment. Additional being the operative word. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "No, momo" Posted by lake on 19:05:29 5/15/2000 I just find it interesting. But it is one hell of a big clue if you can see it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "Momo and Darby>>" Posted by ayelean on 19:21:05 5/15/2000 The one scenario that fits everything is if one or both of the Rams knew about the type, detailed description of the abuse and then use that information to STAGE the crime scene. The Rams would remain silent because they wouldn't want the fact that they knew about the MO be known. The White's would remain silent because it exposes all the perversion of White Sr. What is needed here is the revelation of How one or both Ramseys know about the MO of the abuse! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "lake" Posted by darby on 19:19:02 5/15/2000 I never thought I'd see the day that you and I are on the same page. Check it out--If Lou Smit is seriously investigating MW, he might be next. (fly will have a field day with that one.) Who next? jameson? Nah... There are no heros in this case, only truths. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "Yeah Lake " Posted by momo on 19:14:49 5/15/2000 I can see that and the big picture. I know alot more than you think I do. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "Well, momo" Posted by lake on 19:21:02 5/15/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:21:02, 5/15/2000 Can you see Lou Smit having to resort to a court order to get before the GJ in 1999, Ellis Armistead walking into the DA's office in 1999 and droping off copies of his Ramsey case file, and then the GJ returning no indictment a few months later? I think you see a lot less than you think you see. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "LOL" Posted by Denver on 19:28:02 5/15/2000 I find this strange territory when I am also agreeing with a Lake post, but, Lake, you have brought up some very interesting comments. While I have never been a Lou Smit fan, I say let him have it, and let it lead where it may. I also find it interesting that jamstine has been to Boulder recently looking into the MW situation, and has made numerous calls to people that have information about MW, but seems to be keeping a very low profile about the subject. Direct orders from the Rammers perhaps? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "Dare I say it Ayelean?" Posted by Real Stormy on 19:24:46 5/15/2000 Sure--maybe it's the other way around. The MW knew the MO of abuse after the fact. So did we all. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "Yeh, R/S" Posted by lake on 19:29:29 5/15/2000 Jane Doe made it all up, or dreamed it, like Thomas made up or dreamed up his threoy of PR killing JBR. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "ayelean" Posted by darby on 19:36:58 5/15/2000 Yes--I've thought of the staging MO aspect as well. Again back to the IF that seems to haunt me: IFFFF there is documented proof of abuse of MW at the hand of a FW prior to the murder, information of such may simply have been communicated from the Whites to the Ramseys, said info then used to help stage the crime scene by PR (or JR). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "Lake" Posted by Real Stormy on 19:32:02 5/15/2000 Are you the same Lake of the unknown juveniles and the "There were six in the house" fame? Kind of changed your tune, haven't you? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "Well" Posted by lake on 19:37:39 5/15/2000 Not really. There is just another juvenile in the picture. Jane Doe's neice. And another player, one of Jane Doe's abusers. It is shaping up quite nicely, thank you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "so many messages" Posted by pat on 19:58:24 5/15/2000 so little time. Novo, thanks for weighing in. Indeed someone above posted that the "vaginal trauma" was secondary to physical abuse. As if vaginal trauma by definition is not sexual abuse. That was steve thomas's denial. Any trauma to the vagina is sexual abuse. The feelings or motivation of the perp don't matter. And that statement was very interesting,,note that MW was not disrespected,,in fact it was acknowledged that her reasons for coming forward were to shed light on similarities between her abuse and jon benet's. Now what I want to know is exactly what seashell posted. Is there no known connection as of this moment or is there no possibility of a connection. Were MW/s neice and sister at the white party and where is that child and has she been interviewed.If there is a connection, then the rams must be sweating alot here. Thanks to mame and bj and all who have taken this seriously. I wish we could hear what mw knows and has as proof.I wish she would tell her story. Somehow we are all left hanging about this. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "Lake" Posted by Real Stormy on 19:43:12 5/15/2000 you are so funny. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "But Real Stormy>>>" Posted by ayelean on 19:56:59 5/15/2000 IF MW documented the MO before JBR died or was even born, and her abuser/s are associates of the Rams, and the specific abuse is not common, and then JBR is killed using the same type of abuse, regardless of how painful it would have to be, the abused MW would never be abe to live with herself if she did not come forward. It is conceivable that Pricilla thinking that Patsy is a true friend, confided this family secret. It is also conceivable that if MW ever met Patsy, Patsy could have befriended her to the point that she confided info to Patsy. I see all this as being way more believable than JBR being victimized by a ring of sadistic abusers or that JR and PR were members of a ring of sexual abusers. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "ayelean>>>so true...!" Posted by mary99 on 20:09:19 5/15/2000 I totally agree with you! IF Patsy Ramsey knew all this before 12-26, she used it to stage the unknown pedophile/intruder/kidnapper plot... The patently false, obviously phony pedophile/intruder/kidnapper plot. She did it, I'm convinced. The BPD 'hasn't changed the focus' of the investigation. They think she did it too! All the evidence has always pointed to the Ramseys as the primary suspects. MW has given the BPD more evidence to add to the growing pile. Patsy, the journalism major, has plagarized another person's MO! I agree that it's more likely than a sex ring involving the Ramseys and the Whites, but I'm not ruling that possibility out, not yet. One thing the BPD press release did not do was clear the Whites of any involvement with sexual abuse of MW. I'm in for the long haul. Justice for MW and JBR! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "Well, R/S" Posted by lake on 19:47:12 5/15/2000 Not nearly as funny as you. But remember that Lake is the only one still in the running in the when PR was going to be arrested pole. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 76. "hmmmmm" Posted by lee2 on 00:10:03 5/16/2000 arresting pole . . . is that anything like a whipping post? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "Lake" Posted by Real Stormy on 20:21:54 5/15/2000 I don't remember your position in the "Patsy arrested" sweepstakes. My position was and is--never. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 69. "Yes, Ayelean" Posted by Real Stormy on 20:24:35 5/15/2000 If the details of MW's abuse were documented prior to JB's murder, I would agree with you. The problem is that there is no such documentation, at least no documentation publicly known, despite the popular opinion on the subject. I could not, under any circumstances, condemn anyone on the basis of "if." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 71. "Never Ending..." Posted by shadow on 20:59:32 5/15/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 20:59:32, 5/15/2000 Why do I have this feeling that if the FBI, followed by the US Marshalls, followed by the UN, followed by whomever investigated MW's experiences and found no White connections, some people herein would question their abilities and/or "biases?" I don't know if the Whites had any involvement in this lady's woes, but I do know that the rich and "arrogant" Whites are a much better diversion than the poor and "nice" housekeeper and Santa and his wife. This case probably will end when Lou Smit and the DA's Office, working together, find a poor, homeless man whom they can charge with the crime. His public defender will plea bargain with Hunter - a confession gets him off with six months probation. Everyone will be happy because reputations will be salvaged and many people cleared to "get on with their lives." shadow [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 70. "mary99" Posted by lake on 20:55:08 5/15/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 20:55:08, 5/15/2000 You are going to give yourself a hernia in your attempt to squeeze the Ramseys into the Jane Doe allegations. PW told PR about JD's experience and PR covered up using the JD's exeriences? How amusing. You must really be into fiction. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 73. "Ramseys framed, lake?" Posted by mary99 on 21:06:12 5/15/2000 All the evidence points to Ramsey involvement, lake. Too much evidence to go into if your blinders are firmly in place. I'm not out to change your POV, as it seems to be set in stone, anyway. The coincidences of JBR's murder and MW's abuse at the hands of the FW clan didn't escape you, why do the facts of Patsy Ramsey's and John Ramsey's outright lies, contradictions, and back-pedaling escape you? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 72. "Lake, I'm getting scared" Posted by Real Stormy on 20:59:13 5/15/2000 I'm beginning to like you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 74. "Well, I'm back at the deli counter," Posted by Holly on 21:25:58 5/15/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 21:25:58, 5/15/2000 for another helping of baloney. Liars. Two weeks ago Boulder authorities said Kane was in town for a "forensic summit". How long did that take -- 20 minutes? I'll bet he was here regarding MW's claims. The mother of all press releases sounds more like Kane than the BPD. Yes, Darby. The distinction you make is valid. I'd say the Whites have not been eliminated as suspects in a possible child sex ring -- but the Garroters have. And why did they even mention the Garroters anyway? But here is what amazes me -- MW gave details of her lifetime of abuse. Details that matched the elements of the JB homicide. She told her story to her therapist YEARS ago. YEARS later, coincidentally, little JB is garroted to death and bashed over the head and sexually injured -- just like MW, only JB died. And in another coincidence the EXACT same possible abusers hosted JB's last supper. As a young teen in CA, MW told the truth and got an abuser charged with 64 counts of abuses etc convicted. So what am I supposed to think now? She's a liar? Somebody is holding out. There's alot more to this story. And if there is even a smidgen of data to link the Whites to sex crimes, I hope BPD contacted Social Services. They'll end up regretting this press release. Soooooo, the FBI will carry on and on and on... That's fine with me. MW's claims deserve a thorough investigation calling on the best resources available. You won't find the best of anything at the BPD. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 75. "MW/FW info..." Posted by mary99 on 21:44:31 5/15/2000 Read what closer2 posted at ACandy Rose. She has done some research which turn up a SS# for FW under the name Steve Mason. Check it out! There is also an attorney by that name in Hickory, NC. It just gets curiouser and curiouser...and the TRUTH is out there, somewhere... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 77. "curiouser and curiouser," Posted by listener on 00:19:23 5/16/2000 and does anybody recall batty Betsy and her Mason ramblings of long ago? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 78. "So" Posted by lake on 01:29:36 5/16/2000 Now Fleet White is using an alias? Surprise, surprise. And the Thomas White born in 1962 and living in Boulder at the time of the JBR murder is related to Fleet White. I remember G2 calling that phone number a couple of years ago and getting some young adult voice on the answering machine. Said he had just returned to Boulder. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 79. "Mary99" Posted by Morgan on 04:49:35 5/16/2000 How right you are. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 80. "darby & lake & mame" Posted by fly on 08:00:34 5/16/2000 Boulder Police and prosecutors have concluded an investigation that began in February when a 37-year-old California woman reported her belief that JonBenet Ramsey was murdered as part of a child sex ring. The investigation found no additional evidence to support this theory. ... Boulder Police spent about 11 weeks investigating the allegations...and comparing the allegations against physical evidence and current knowledge of the case. As a result, Boulder Police and prosecutors working on the case have concluded that other than the woman's statements, there is no evidence to support this theory of JonBenet's murder. (bold added) lake - I suspect you are misinterpreting the statement concerning the meaning of "no additional evidence." The first paragraph is basically a summary. If you read the paragraph where the details are given, the referent of "additional" is pretty clear; nothing beyond the woman's statements. Can't be 100% sure, of course, but makes sense to me. darby - Can't be 100% sure about the next, either, but I strongly suspect I'd be proven right if anybody checked with BPD... "We needed to take the time to complete a thorough investigation," Police Chief Mark Beckner said. "Unfortunately, the allegations have led to speculation that Fleet and Priscilla White, former close friends of the Ramseys and hosts of the 1996 Christmas party, were somehow involved in the sexual abuse and death of JonBenet. We have no evidence whatsoever to support this and have never had evidence to support such an allegation. Nor do we have any evidence that John and Patsy Ramsey were part of or participated in a child sex ring operation." I definitely see what you are saying; I noticed it too, and figured people would jump on it. However, I'll propose an alternative view: The statement concerns MW's suggestions that JBR was killed by a child sex ring that was operating at the Whites' party. By saying that the Whites were not involved in JBR's death or sexual abuse in this context, the statement implies that they were not part of any child sex ring. What nobody has mentioned, but that is even more obvious to me (especially give past statements by BPD et al.), is that although the Ramseys are cleared of child sex ring activity, the statement does not clear them of murder. As I said above, I'm not 100% sure, and proving either interpretation to be correct will require somebody (here's your chance, mame) talking to BPD or the person writing the press release to ask for clarification. My bet is on my interpretation (surprise!). mame - How about getting clarification for us? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 81. "All Too Typical" Posted by Lacey on 08:10:31 5/16/2000 LOL, I'm surprised neither by the news nor the reaction on-forum. In your typical implacable fashion some of you just won't give this up. Because some of her abuse story is credible and verifiable, you have awarded her blanket authenticity even though other parts of her story are inconsistent and hampered by a history of histrionics which has been verified as well. The connection isn't credible. Live with it. Or whatever. Myself, I am standing by my preliminary posts on this matter, that someone found her and by suggestion encouraged her to enhance her story to harm the innocent. It's much more likely, given what we know of the Ramsey investigation and the BPD's eleven-week look-see into her background. Since the Shapiro Days, Mr. Sinister Hunter has been trying to smear White as he has done with so many others in retaliation for their refusal to "play the game." We've heard about it for years and it all fits. The buck stops THERE. That's all there is to it. My sympathy to MW for getting tangled in the web. Godspeed. . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 82. "if you're into getting between the lines...." Posted by fly on 08:23:37 5/16/2000 darby, lake, and all others who like to read between the lines - Try this one on for size :-) (from the Daily Camera article on the MW today) Beckner said his investigators have forwarded information about the woman's allegations to the FBI's field offices in California. The chief wouldn't say whether the woman's general claims of a child-sex ring are credible. "We didn't want to come to any conclusion on that out of respect for her," he said. "Our investigation was whether JonBenét's death was the result of a child-sex and pornography ring. We didn't find any evidence of that." (bold added) Seems to me like this could be interpretted as a hint that none of MW's tale checked out, except for the fact that she was abused by Boykin. BPD allowing MW to save a little face? Again, no way to know for sure - at least not without getting more info from BPD. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 83. "Thanks, fly " Posted by darby on 10:15:44 5/16/2000 I see what you're saying. But I don't really care what the BPD has to say until they answer one question. What I'm looking for--the only thing I'm looking for--is whether documentation exists which was recorded prior to the murder that tells of garroting abuse of MW as a child by or with a White. If this documentation does not exist, then we will know that there is no proof that MW's experiences relate in any way to JBR's. End of story. However, if such was written down before the murder, then nobody will ever, EVER convince me that the two victims' experiences aren't related in some way. --Even if the Ramseys acted alone on the murder night. --Even if the BPD says a thousand times that the two events are unrelated. This question needs to be addressed before anything else can be considered, in my opinion. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 84. "too sinister to contemplate." Posted by becky on 11:14:44 5/16/2000 Today is a good day for me. Over the last couple of years I have been obscessed by finding out what happened in two cases, the Yosemite case and this one. I had given up on the jbr fourm because it just seemed like everyone was rehashing the same ol' BS..parsing the same lines and wondering the same question..was it an intruder (uh..duh..that would be a "NO"). But what did happen??? The picture just never came into focus for me to imagine what I was looking at. Well...for those of you who aren't too close to see it...the outline of the puzzle now has its missing piece. While it still isn't possible to see exactly we are looking at..and still harder to accept...there is of an outline for the rest of the pieces to soon fall into place. Thanks to those of you above who translated what the press releases actually said....once you start to see the truth ..you can't hide the lie. Same with the Yosemite case. For those of you who followed it...read the article by Michael Mooney on Cybersleuths about the reports by Rhonda Dunn. It is chilling and sinister..but it answers the overall question of what happened to the women. You can finally read the facts and say..."overall, this makes sense", rather than ...."this just doesn't add up. Two cases, too many thoughts and too many questions. Imagine the answers for both coming on the same day. I never ceased to be amazed by the strange twists and turns of both of these cases. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]