Justice Watch Discussion Board "Todays Heroes.." [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Todays Heroes.., rico, 10:39:51, 5/17/2000 Rico, Sioux, 10:55:30, 5/17/2000, (#1) Sioux., rico, 11:17:20, 5/17/2000, (#2) Rico, frankg, 11:27:27, 5/17/2000, (#3) frankg, Sioux, 11:52:26, 5/17/2000, (#8) Sioux, frankg, 13:33:59, 5/17/2000, (#14) frankg, Sioux, 14:50:28, 5/17/2000, (#19) The Heart of the Matter, Lacey, 11:27:28, 5/17/2000, (#4) Rico, Ruthee, 11:36:40, 5/17/2000, (#5) frankg, fly, 11:47:32, 5/17/2000, (#6) Ruthee.., rico, 14:24:39, 5/17/2000, (#17) ok, gang..., mame, 11:48:23, 5/17/2000, (#7) mame, fly, 12:17:32, 5/17/2000, (#9) Mame, I listened, gaiabetsy, 12:35:03, 5/17/2000, (#10) OK, fly..., mame, 12:37:01, 5/17/2000, (#12) Mame, excellent reply to Fly, doc, 20:46:43, 5/17/2000, (#28) Thanks Mame, Paralegal, 12:36:34, 5/17/2000, (#11) if the woman has tangible proof, Edie Pratt, 12:55:35, 5/17/2000, (#13) Edie Pratt, Real Stormy, 14:03:48, 5/17/2000, (#15) which ethical press are you talking about,RS?, Edie Pratt, 14:28:18, 5/17/2000, (#18) the national press, mame, 14:17:34, 5/17/2000, (#16) yeah, Mame, what about those glitzy videos?, Edie Pratt, 14:51:51, 5/17/2000, (#20) There must be, Real Stormy, 16:05:27, 5/17/2000, (#21) good grief, mame, fly, 18:02:20, 5/17/2000, (#22) Fly, Ribaldone, 18:11:49, 5/17/2000, (#23) Fly - , milo, 19:45:23, 5/17/2000, (#24) Ramsey vs White, SJ, 20:11:05, 5/17/2000, (#26) milo, fly, 19:58:29, 5/17/2000, (#25) it's not about "us", stryker, 21:12:33, 5/17/2000, (#29) well, gang, mame, 20:38:39, 5/17/2000, (#27) ................................................................... "Todays Heroes.." Posted by rico on 10:39:51 5/17/2000 are tomorrow's Heels, or is it yesterday's Heels are today's Heroes? I thank you Mame for bringing us MW's story and I respect your motives and good intentions. That said I hope you won't take my comments/opinions personally. Maybe we misjudged Lou Smit? Don't think so; the man is or was on the R's payroll and I didn't throw skepticism to the wind when he trotted out his stun gun/intruder theory and I won't suspend disbelief for MW either. Yes, she was a victim of abuse and it's heartbreaking that such reprehensible acts happen to children but if she can't substantiate her innuendo and allegations why are we crucifying the BPD again? It must be like Catch-22 for these poor slobs! They can't prove MW sex-ring charges so they must be inept. Didn't the California police say something about numerous false or spurious charges or are they insensitive, callous and inept as well? Everyone seems ready to trash the Whites now when it was not that long ago I read what character he possessed for pressing the Gov. for an independent investigator. This is the man who confronted his best friend and told him to quit hiding behind attornies, get back to Boulder and help the police find JB's murderer! MW has said alot without revealing much and that's WRONG, WRONG, WRONG any way you look at it. She has no reason (other than being discredited, perhaps sued) for not publicly naming these horrid people who abused her and possibly others. It's to your credit mame, that you did state your belief that MW story was not directly related to JB case, however, it's clear reading the forums that the MW has sowed the seeds of suspicion which must have the LH's in a state of euphoria: JW has been derailed (or at least side-tracked). My sympathy and prayers go out to MW, not only for the abuse she once suffered but also because she has interjected herself into a case which has already ruined or tainted so many people, and perhaps for no other reason than she needs and wants help, attention, understanding. And because she doesn't know how fickle a crowd can be. JfJBR [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Rico" Posted by Sioux on 10:55:30 5/17/2000 EXELLENT POST!!!! Very specially: **MW has said alot without revealing much and that's WRONG, WRONG, WRONG any way you look at it.** One thing we don't need is MORE UNFOUNDED SUSPICIONS. More and more tracks that lead nowhere. Sioux [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Sioux." Posted by rico on 11:17:20 5/17/2000 Thank you for your comments. I felt it needed to be said, so I said it..and you couldn't be more right: we don't need it. We've been danced around and it's time to move on. JfJBR [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Rico" Posted by frankg on 11:28:55 5/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:28:55, 5/17/2000 I could be wrong but I don't believe MW ever said she knew there was a connection between her abuse and JonBenet's murder. What she said was that some details of JonBenet's murder were consistent with the sexual abuse she has endured, and that perhaps there was a link. If I'm wrong on this point please correct me. Fleet White Jr *may* still be connected to a sex ring (I'll only believe that when it's proven and not before), but that doesn't mean that it has anything to do with JonBenet's murder. People are trying to make connections between the two cases and maybe, just maybe, there isn't one. MW should not be faulted for raising the possibility of a connection. It's not the BPD's fault that they didn't find one if in fact none exists. Some people just insisted on jumping to conclusions and if they want to blame someone for their dashed hopes for a break in the case they should look in the mirror. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "frankg" Posted by Sioux on 11:52:26 5/17/2000 **What she said was that some details of JonBenet's murder were consistent with the sexual abuse she has endured, and that perhaps there was a link.** PERHAPS????? She concretely NAMED Fleet White Senior. If that is not a link I don't know what is. **Fleet White Jr *may* still be connected to a sex ring (I'll only believe that when it's proven and not before),** "MAY" STILL be connected to a sex ring? Are you sure he was connected BEFORE? If so, the "may" is irrelevant because that should be ENOUGH . ** but that doesn't mean that it has anything to do with JonBenet's murder.** Oh for God's sake! So they (sex ring people) didn't kill her but Patsy and/or John were copycating the MO. But wait ! Then IT HAS to do with JB's murder. And didn't MW said that HER MOTHER TOLD her who the murder was? How more of a connection do you want? ** People are trying to make connections between the two cases and maybe, just maybe, there isn't one.** Uh??? ** MW should not be faulted for raising the possibility of a connection. ** She concretely says she knows who the murder was since a few days AFTER the murder.(Thanks to her mother's call). I propose that she tells us who this person is, since obviously this hypothetical person WILL NEVER BE CHARGED because the incriminating evidence was long gone (BPD announcing their visit )) **It's not the BPD's fault that they didn't find one if in fact none exists.** But....This person you are trusting (With which I am still indicisive about) SAID that the BPD made it possible for the interviewed to DESTROY EVIDENCE thanks to announcing themselves!!! ** Some people just insisted on jumping to conclusions and if they want to blame someone for their dashed hopes for a break in the case they should look in the mirror.** OH HELP ME JEEZUS. Sioux [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Sioux" Posted by frankg on 13:34:44 5/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:34:44, 5/17/2000 **What she said was that some details of JonBenet's murder were consistent with the sexual abuse she has endured, and that perhaps there was a link.** PERHAPS????? She concretely NAMED Fleet White Senior. If that is not a link I don't know what is. +++ Sioux, exactly how does Fleet White Sr link to JonBenet's murder? Does Sr live with Jr? I don't think so. Your making leaps of faith here. Sr may be a deviant, Jr may be an angel. Please... if my father were a murderer, that does not make me one! **Fleet White Jr *may* still be connected to a sex ring (I'll only believe that when it's proven and not before),** "MAY" STILL be connected to a sex ring? Are you sure he was connected BEFORE? If so, the "may" is irrelevant because that should be ENOUGH . +++ May Still, meaning he may still turn out to be one. As in the 76er's May Still beat the Pacers in the NBA playoffs. Replace May Still with Might if that makes it easier for you to understand my point. ** but that doesn't mean that it has anything to do with JonBenet's murder.** Oh for God's sake! So they (sex ring people) didn't kill her but Patsy and/or John were copycating the MO. But wait ! Then IT HAS to do with JB's murder. And didn't MW said that HER MOTHER TOLD her who the murder was? How more of a connection do you want? +++ I guess you never heard of coincidence, or perhaps whomever did the staging heard of the techniques from other abuse cases. Again, your just bridging things w/o any evidence to support such leaps. ** People are trying to make connections between the two cases and maybe, just maybe, there isn't one.** Uh??? ** MW should not be faulted for raising the possibility of a connection. ** She concretely says she knows who the murder was since a few days AFTER the murder.(Thanks to her mother's call). I propose that she tells us who this person is, since obviously this hypothetical person WILL NEVER BE CHARGED because the incriminating evidence was long gone (BPD announcing their visit )) +++ I guessed I missed that. I didn't hear her state she knew who the murderer was. **It's not the BPD's fault that they didn't find one if in fact none exists.** But....This person you are trusting (With which I am still indicisive about) SAID that the BPD made it possible for the interviewed to DESTROY EVIDENCE thanks to announcing themselves!!! +++ What's that got to do with it. Anyone can cover their tracks. I didn't say the BPD hasn't made mistakes. Only that if there was no connection, you can't fault the BPD for not finding one. And for the record I am trusting no one here. ** Some people just insisted on jumping to conclusions and if they want to blame someone for their dashed hopes for a break in the case they should look in the mirror.** OH HELP ME JEEZUS. +++ Keep asking and maybe someday yee shall receive. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "frankg" Posted by Sioux on 14:50:28 5/17/2000 Thanks for you response.I have the feeling we are not really thinking so differently. Let's see: ** Sioux, exactly how does Fleet White Sr link to JonBenet's murder? Does Sr live with Jr? I don't think so.** Okey so maybe we jugde people by who we are. My dad was a nasty person, and even when his "nastiness" was WAY FAR from being a pedophile, or belonging to a child sex ring (YIKES!!!), I stoped talking to him when I was 23.I've been critized for this but I stick to what I believe is called "priciples". It seems to me The Whites (Senior and Junior) still keep a good relationship, at least that's what it SEEMS. They visit, they spend holidays together (those same holidays that MW claims to be so important for the child sex ring). SOOOOOO......If FW Senior DOES Belong to the ring , I don't see how he can PERFORM in it (Christmas/sex-abuse parties) NEAR his son and at the same time his son be completely oblivious of this fact. "I" don't get it. But I might be dumb. **if my father were a murderer, that does not make me one!** Of course not. But at least HE WOULD KNOW, and he is not telling.(Again, this in the case that FW senior DOES belong to the sex ring, as MW SAYS) **Oh for God's sake! So they (sex ring people) didn't kill her but Patsy and/or John were copycating the MO. But wait ! Then IT HAS to do with JB's murder. And didn't MW said that HER MOTHER TOLD her who the murder was? How more of a connection do you want? +++ I guess you never heard of coincidence, or perhaps whomever did the staging heard of the techniques from other abuse cases. Again, your just bridging things w/o any evidence to support such leaps.** COINCIDENCE??? Who's making a leap of faith here? **She concretely says she knows who the murder was since a few days AFTER the murder.(Thanks to her mother's call). I propose that she tells us who this person is, since obviously this hypothetical person WILL NEVER BE CHARGED because the incriminating evidence was long gone (BPD announcing their visit )) +++ I guessed I missed that. I didn't hear her state she knew who the murderer was.** Well "I" didn't hear her either, but that is what I read in the transcript. **What's that got to do with it. Anyone can cover their tracks. I didn't say the BPD hasn't made mistakes. Only that if there was no connection, you can't fault the BPD for not finding one. And for the record I am trusting no one here.** HOOOOLD it right there PLEASE! Either the BPD DID ANNOUNCE their visit and this person destroyed the so called evidence or not. If so IT IS the Boulder Police BIG MISTAKE , and yes it is their fault for not finding the connection.(Since they helped the suspects to destroy it). IF all this is not true, well then, back to square one, which is MW IS NOT giving pertinent info. ** Some people just insisted on jumping to conclusions and if they want to blame someone for their dashed hopes for a break in the case they should look in the mirror.** Are you talking to ME?? Is trying to figure out how can "White" be "Black" at the same time "jumping to conclusions"? **Keep asking and maybe someday yee shall receive.** I'm trying. Sioux [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "The Heart of the Matter" Posted by Lacey on 11:27:28 5/17/2000 Is that this is a mental health issue. Climb through the rubble and there it is This mystery woman, she's older, but she reminds me so much of something that happened in my church when I was in high school. I remember she was in college, mid-20s, not too much older than me. She was in bad shape and was taken in by some friends of my parents.. how she fooled everybody with her tales of ritual abuse that eventually proved to be no more than just a bad spat with an Old Boyfriend, Controlling Type. She too was articulate and convincing, responding with a frightened, "I can't tell you that," when asked directly about some of her claims. But the truth came out, as truth often does, and sympathy for her situation turned to sympathy for the mental state that led her to behave this way to get concern and attention. (That's the long-story-short version.) People didn't give up on her but I have no idea whatever became of her. My point and I DO have one, is, I would guess MW's suddenly coming forward three years after the Ramsey homicide has more to do with a similar mindset than a true exposé. She may have had a legitimate claim 20 years ago, but her recent allegations of less than ten years were tossed out, weren't they? False claims, false allegations, false police reports.. how does she answer to that? She doesn't, does she. I tend to think she sounds a bit delusional and that her claims get more detailed the more people gather to listen to her. As long as there are people to listen.. Sorry. MW has woven things into her story that do not pan out. She's a tragic woman but her sensational allegations are greater than the sum of her parts. Hope she gets help and finds resolution to the demons apparently plaguing her.. and the ones encouraging her as well. Demons, I mean. Just Lace . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Rico" Posted by Ruthee on 11:36:40 5/17/2000 I want to hear Jane Doe's voice. I haven't been able to listen to the conversation as the site is not available right now. I want to hear a statement such as (My mother told me that ("insert any name") killed JBR or was involved in the killing of JBR. I have no doubt that Jane Doe has been abused and has suffered during and since her childhood. I just cannot make the connection from her experiences to the murder of JonBenet Ramsey. I have so many questions. Maybe some will be answered if I'm able to hear the recording. I won't get an answer, but I'll ask anyway. 1. Was the "bear card" sent from Boulder Colorado? 2. What was the "first name" signed on the card? 3. To whom was the envelope addressed? Did it go to Jane Doe's home or another address? 4. What is the date of mailing? 5. Since the card sender is supposed to be known to the police and close to the JBR investigation, were that persons prints on the card? 6. Has the card and the envelope been turned over to the FBI? 7. Why would the Ramsey supporters be looking through property records in Southern California for records of members of the Boulder Police Department? 8. Why did the RST accuse Fleet White early on in this case and then suddenly remove posts and become silent? Why did the RST start posting information supporting Fleet White? (An example is the posting of my letter on their forum in support of Fleet White.) 9. Now, why do we see the Fleet White accusations "coming through the back door?" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "frankg" Posted by fly on 11:47:32 5/17/2000 frankg - In some of the reports, it was stated that MW wasn't saying her experience necessarily was directly related to JBR, but that the similarity of her injuries made her want to tell her story. Now, however, we hear that her mother was at the party and has named the murderer. Kind of shouts for more conviction than "well, the injuries sure were similar, so I thought I'd mention it." Maybe those previous reports were just wrong. Something sure is. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Ruthee.." Posted by rico on 14:24:39 5/17/2000 Your questions are right on target and I hope they will be answered, but I'm not holding my breath. Hope I'm wrong...until then, I have to ask "where's the beef"? Clara [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "ok, gang..." Posted by mame on 12:24:29 5/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:24:29, 5/17/2000 I need to respond to a few things. I also need to get this transcript done so that you can see the exact words stated. As you respond, I'd like you to respond to the precise words uttered in the interview. Since many have forgotten, or have never been schooled in, the role of: journalist, public official, witness, freedom of information, etc. in a free democratic society...it's time we took a look at this again. I will do so in a simplistic post when I finish the transcript. One thing I'd like to clear up now... I never said I felt the allegations made by "Bridget" were not connected to the JBR murder. I also never said I could prove they were. Again, it's not my job to do so. It is my job as a journalist to make sure those hired to investigate it...do it completely. It is also my job as a journalist to help an underdog be heard. A citizen of the community who has the same rights and every single person in the kingdom. To help ensure her compelling evidence and allegations are INVESTIGATED fully and fairly! The Witness has never said she could prove a definite, prosecutable connection to the Ramsey murder! What she has presented as a possible witness (not a suspect) is a compelling case for further investigation. A road map of documents, evidence, more witnesses, timelines, longtime family connections, abuse similarities, etc., etc., etc. A POSSIBLE piece to the puzzle. Similar to any WITNESS! Our little democratic society enlists a free press to demand accountability from public officials...to gather information alongside...to hear small voices...to write stories and report news and information to inform the citizens of a democratic society. This information is meant for each and ever citizen as a tool to make informed decisions. If public officials are inept in investigations, prosecutions, and such, there can be many casualties along the way. The Bus is full of casualties over three long years. It's too damn bad the bus is so full. But, the biggest casualty is a dead kid. A community that seems numb to the ramifications of such slow justice. If the residents of Pleasantville weren't brain dead they might realize the risk to their own kids and themselves. Also, as to Mr. Lou Smit. Smit tells me he has never taken a dime from anyone in his investigation of this case. He also tells me he will follow the trail to find truth wherever it may lead. Take that anyway you like. I am only reporting more information and a personal assessment of a man I've only heard tell of till meeting him recently. It's hard to tell who is a good guy and who is a bad guy (or girl) in all the muck of slow justice. Hopefully, one day those who seek truth will find it. Only then will we know the good and evil of the people and the process. Until then the bus get's fuller....rumor and gossip prevails...truth is concealed. I hope to add to this later. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "mame" Posted by fly on 12:17:32 5/17/2000 mame - Keep working on that transcript rather than rushing to reply. If public officials are inept in investigations, prosecutions, and such, there can be many casualties along the way. The Bus is full of casualties over three long years. It's too damn bad the bus is full. But, the biggest casualty is a dead kid. Given that you repeated your standard "role of the press" paen, I'll repeat one of my favorites: The public officials you so distrust are not responsible for the dead kid. They may have a hand in allowing so many innocent folks to be seriously maimed by the bus because they didn't manage to force the bus off the road quickly, but they are not driving the bus. Those bus drivers are the Ramseys and some of the press who make accusations or insinuations without much concern for the validity of their information or the damage to the innocent pedestrians. I can understand the Ramseys being such reckless drivers. They are either fighting for their lives (if guilty) or chasing perceived monsters down the sidewalks (if innocent). The press doesn't have those excuses. Ya, ya, ya, news is news, freedom of the press, and the public must be protected .... Well, mowing down members of the public prior to thoroughly checking out the story isn't my idea of protection. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Mame, I listened" Posted by gaiabetsy on 12:35:03 5/17/2000 to the interview and was impressed by this woman's apparent (and very evident to me) discussion about her own ritual abuse. I believe her. I'm a victim of childhood sexual abuse, and I believe this woman has been horribly wronged. What I also do know is I learned to "make up stories in my head" while abuse was happening or when I remembered, so I could deal with it and carry on and try to live a normal life. I feel she has done this too. Deal is, what is fantasy and what is reality? For example, instead of the truth being ritual horror and sex abuse, her father raped her sometimes. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "OK, fly..." Posted by mame on 12:37:01 5/17/2000 let me get this straight? Now journalists are supossed to rely fly's professional investigation and final judgements of guilt and innocence? I never considered the little known fact that someone bestowed upon YOU the almighty power! That a poster on a discussion forum on The Internet knows the good guys and the bad guys! In my book you represent another sad casuality in a slow, dark twisted path to justice. While i adore the "backyard fence" and "coffee shop talk" of this fine living room. talk, discuss, argue, etc. I do not think any single one of us has every single answer to this puzzle. Until we do I'll keep giving anyone who will listen...more and more information to crunch and think about. It ain't about you fly! It ain't about me! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Mame, excellent reply to Fly" Posted by doc on 20:46:43 5/17/2000 Fly, do you have a degree in Journalism or any experience in this field? I didn't think so. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Thanks Mame" Posted by Paralegal on 12:36:34 5/17/2000 for clearing things up. And I would like to add that it is not MW's job either to investigate the leads she has or prove beyond a reasonable doubt a connection between her horrid experience and the Ramsey case. Those are all the jobs of the police, whether BPD or FBI, and apparently, once again, the powers that be in Pleasantville have failed to do so. So why shoot the messenger??? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Paralegal ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "if the woman has tangible proof" Posted by Edie Pratt on 12:55:35 5/17/2000 are there going to be arrests? If this is tied to JB or not, the fact of the matter is this woman was abused by SOMEONE, and that person should pay. I wonder why the national news has not made a big deal of this, like follow F&PWhite around like they do to everyone else? I mean, since when do the tabs wait for a court of law before invading a private citizen's privacy? And, I am confused by this info that MW's mother has stated she knows who killed our little friend. I cannot imagine any law enforcment agency not running to her house to interview her, or at least trail her. That's not exactly hearsay if the woman was at the White house that night, is it? Lastly, I'd like to add my thoughts on JR and FW's relationship. As I have mentioned, I was molested by an older brother. My bestfriend, whom I've known since nursery school, was also molested by her brother. But, the catch is, we did not know that about oneanother until we were in our 20's. Not something I could easily discuss as a child, and apparantly, not her either. The point is, we wondered if there was some underlying communication between us, that somehow we knew without ever saying a word. Could the connection between JR & FW be that very thing, only, between abusers rather than abusees? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Edie Pratt" Posted by Real Stormy on 14:03:48 5/17/2000 Could it be that the national press has not featured this prominently because they are bound by the journalism ethic of confirmation by a second source? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "which ethical press are you talking about,RS?" Posted by Edie Pratt on 14:28:18 5/17/2000 the same one that plastered "Mommy did it!", or the one that stated "Daddy did it", or maybe you mean the press that unequivically said, "Burke did it"? All the articles on the Ramsey family have been either fabricated, stretched, or told by "sources close to the investigation". Were there follow up stories or sources in those cases? As far as I'm concerned, any and all people who had contact with JB that night, or week for that matter, are fair game if they have not assisted the police in every way they can. All of the players we discuss here have made themselves public in one way or another. Including FW. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "the national press" Posted by mame on 14:18:21 5/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:18:21, 5/17/2000 and many of the local members of the media,who, on the most part provided glizy beauty queen videos...snazzy soundbites...and rarely followed the first journalistic ethic of informing the community they serve! those days of journalism are gone. i have respect for a very few out there who dared do the work they were given the right to do under our constitution! i'm not saying i have it "right". but, go read a journalism 101 book...and then talk to me. each and every one of the national TV press, pulled up stakes at the end of the grand jury. the other thing to remember is that many media outlets have thousands and millions invested in one theory! la de da... they may be right. but, consider they may have a lot to lose. as my grandma used to say about domestic disputes..."there's his side...her side...and the truth!" back to typing... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "yeah, Mame, what about those glitzy videos?" Posted by Edie Pratt on 14:51:51 5/17/2000 how on this green earth did the press get hold of those beauty pageant videos, anyhow? Gees, let me think... could they have come from the people who made them? It has been stuck in my craw from the very day they appeared, as it's obvious those videos were chosen for an overriding need to show off. Those videos gave the viewer the illusion that the Ramsey's were more than who they really are, and I suspect it worked in some circles. The kidnapping wouldn't be as convincing or interesting had we not been provided with those visuals, and we all know Patsy's got a degree in marketing. She knows the need to keep a story HOT HOT HOT, and what better way than providing a little appetizer like the "Cowboy Sweetheart" number to get the media's juices flowing? The media is not to blame here, folks. The Ramsey's are. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "There must be" Posted by Real Stormy on 16:06:10 5/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:06:10, 5/17/2000 A chapter on "Objectivity" in that Journalism 101 book you recommend. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "good grief, mame" Posted by fly on 18:02:20 5/17/2000 mame - Try reading my post again. I am not setting myself up as Chief Investigator, nor am I demanding that I make the final determination. Seems like I'm the one willing to accept the word of the trained professionals (however imperfect). You and some other amateurs here are putting your judgement above that of the BPD, last time I noticed. It's fine to wax eloquent about the noble mission of the press, but it's not okay to ignore the serious responsibilities of the press - like verifying that your facts are legit. That is, has been, and probably will be again, my point. In my opinion, the people reporting the MW story did a p!ss-poor job taking care of those responsibilities before smearing the Whites' reputation. I kept thinking that maybe there was something in the way of evidence that you had seen but not shared that would prove me wrong about this, but given the BPD verdict, I've pretty much ruled that out. Actually, mame, I think it's the guy at the Daily Camera (and perhaps Hunter) who is giving the Ramsey's a rest and is taking his turn driving the bus. You're on the bus, but otherwise occupied. I agree with you about a couple of thing: This isn't about me. I never said it was. And I agree that this isn't about you, except when you put on your journalist hat. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Fly" Posted by Ribaldone on 18:11:49 5/17/2000 "I kept thinking that maybe there was something in the way of evidence that you had seen but not shared that would prove me wrong about this, but given the BPD verdict, I've pretty much ruled that out." Me too! I wrote a post at work for this thread and e-mailed it to myself at home, but it hasn't arrived! Hello? AOL sucks. Anyway, it was somewhat long and I don't have time right now to collect my thoughts and retype the darn thing -- it's time to start dinner! So, I'm just going to say "RIGHT ON, Rico and Fly." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Fly - " Posted by milo on 19:45:23 5/17/2000 I'm with you 1,000%. I believe the RST is behind all this MW nonsense. Who has been the #1 thorn in the Ramsey's side? Who are the Ramsey's the MOST afraid of? FW, that's who. Look how they've tried to trash him - they had Pam Griffin, the seamstress, talking about how strange FW was, and how there was something wrong with him. They tried to make something of the fact that FW may have helped JBR change her soiled panties. Remember how strongly lake and other obvious members of the RST have attacked FW. They've gone after him with an absolute hateful vengance. You can practically see the venom dripping from their words when they speak of FW. In doing so, they made it quite clear the Ramsey's are TERRIFIED of FW and what he might say at a trial - or to the press. And now, they've finally succeeded in turning FW from a White Knight into a disgusting pervert, and possibly a murderer, in the eyes of many gullible people here. Talk about spinning something 180 degrees from the truth!!! Can't these people add 2 + 2?? This just reeks of Ramsey Spin!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Ramsey vs White" Posted by SJ on 20:11:05 5/17/2000 While I agree that the RST may be capitalizing on the MW story, I don't doubt that this woman is an abuse survivor. It is easy for one to recognize another. However, I still think it is highly possible that the Rams were aware of White JR's father's behavior and that is what they are using to try and silence the Whites. In other words, White Sr. is the guy who is connected to MW and other abusers, not White Jr. It is highly possible that White Jr. is totally ashamed and humiliated that his father's "hobby" has been made so public. Possibly he had confided this terrible secret to the Rams at some point. Like don't leave your kids alone with my dad? It is also possible that White Jr. takes after his Dad, but that is just a possibility as I have no clue if he does anything like this. Maybe he is a survivor? We just really don't know. The only thing we know for sure is that MW said that White Sr. is her mother's Godfather and that he was part of the group of people who abused her (MW). As for MW's mother saying she knows who killed JBR, I have a feeling that what she "knows" is a guess based on what she thinks she knows, just like most of us here. If she really knew, and had any kind of proof, we would have heard about it all by now. It may be a hunch based on some real knowledge of some people's actions, but I think that is all that it is. Then again, maybe she was paid to claim to know? If she participated in her own daughter's abuse, how far would she go if she were paid money? btw, Mame, thanks for reporting without bias. Great job! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "milo" Posted by fly on 19:58:29 5/17/2000 milo - Well, thanks for the support, but I'll have to part company with you on any RST connection to MW - at least any direct one. The Ramseys and their RST might be extremely pleased with the appearance of MW, but I don't think they had anything to do with her appearance (if that is what you are suggesting). She certainly does suit their purposes, of course. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "it's not about "us"" Posted by stryker on 21:12:33 5/17/2000 Sioux said: "One thing we don't need is MORE UNFOUNDED SUSPICIONS. More and more tracks that lead nowhere." this whole thing is not about us or our needs. MW, in my opinion, was only offering her experiences as a "possible" connection to the case. i don't think she ever claimed to have proof of who did what.i don't post much because i keep fluctuating between theories. but i try to keep an open mind. after hearing (most) of mame's interview with MW i must say she sounds credible to me and i don't feel believing her story in any way exonerates the ramseys. if you accept the "possibility" of the involvement of some sort of pedophile activity "gone wrong", it had to be with the knowledge of the ramseys. so they have every reason to conceal such activity. it would not be to their advantage to draw attention to such a pedophile ring. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "well, gang" Posted by mame on 20:38:39 5/17/2000 each and every interview and ounce of information presented to an audience is important. i don't pick people to interview because i know you'll just love them. i pick them to find out more and help you, me and everyone decide for themselves how this human can give you more to think about than you had before. you listen, access and then make up your mind. i'm a vessel. nothing more. i'm not sure how many times i've said this...BUT, here goes again. i have never once said that the information brought forward by The Witness can be proven or holds a key to solving this case...or any case. this woman and the information she has so courageously given is worth a look...a big, complete look. in a way, you should be thrilled she did. what if she never came forward. what if someone were charged with this murder? if they took the stand and anyone testifying was hiding information about past activities...any half ass defense attorney could bring it into the open...find reasonable doubt and everyone WALKS!!! so, in the name of justice it makes sense to be certain such powerful claims can be ruled in, or out. i have the ability to listen and stretch my mind. in doing so, especially as an independent journalist, i take great risks. i don't have an editor telling me they don't want my story on michael kane's practice in pennsylvania...the DA's leaks...lou smit's vow of truth...etc. the horror stories coming from journalists covering this case who may lose their job if they don't keep up with the soundbites, is chilling. certainly there are some good ones out there. plasket is the only newspaperman or woman willing to tear apart the court proceedings with hunter and smit. why weren't others digging for the answers in that file? that file is a very important case about information that is ours...evidence that's ours...we paid for it! when the day comes that i claim to "know" a witness or source, has all the answers. when i bestow upon myself that poisonous power...then and only then can anyone say i'm biased. plus, as plasket says, "if you know it all already, you have no reason to learn more." for those lucky ones who know everything they need to know..my quirky, gutsy, flawed and truthful as hell information is of no use whatsoever... never in journalism 101 do they say advocating for a voice trying to be heard among the lawsuits, book deals, and polygraph games is being unfair...or one sided. show me where it says that! there are incidents in the civil rights movement, the holocaust, watergate, and thousands of other historic cases that required a little voice be heard. and in most of those stories only a few were willing to listen. 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