Justice Watch Discussion Board "More Hinky" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... More Hinky, Denver, 13:15:41, 5/19/2000 Well,, gaiabetsy, 13:21:02, 5/19/2000, (#1) JW archives are...., Phantom, 13:44:20, 5/19/2000, (#2) I thought, Gemini, 13:45:43, 5/19/2000, (#3) The poster, darby, 14:06:08, 5/19/2000, (#4) Denver, hareen, 14:13:15, 5/19/2000, (#5) Double Chit, starry, 14:38:58, 5/19/2000, (#12) Darby, Denver, 14:27:26, 5/19/2000, (#6) Bill Ritter is our answer?, CommonSense, 14:28:39, 5/19/2000, (#7) CommonSense, Chris, 14:34:48, 5/19/2000, (#11) Bill Ritter, Denver, 14:32:27, 5/19/2000, (#10) Denver..., Policedog, 14:31:25, 5/19/2000, (#9) I wish I , darby, 14:31:23, 5/19/2000, (#8) More..., Chris, 14:40:33, 5/19/2000, (#15) Chris kitty .... Denver .... Lake.., Slinky, 14:39:51, 5/19/2000, (#14) can we guess?, Edie Pratt, 14:39:09, 5/19/2000, (#13) E.P., Chris, 14:41:36, 5/19/2000, (#16) OK, what next?, mary99, 15:23:40, 5/19/2000, (#30) this stinks, dixie, 14:46:40, 5/19/2000, (#20) Chris, starry, 14:45:15, 5/19/2000, (#19) Chris, Tedleg, 14:45:06, 5/19/2000, (#18) Tedleg, Chris, 14:52:50, 5/19/2000, (#21) OK Chris, Edie Pratt, 14:44:51, 5/19/2000, (#17) Chris, Seashell, 15:09:26, 5/19/2000, (#28) E.P., Chris, 14:55:20, 5/19/2000, (#23) wow, Edie Pratt, 15:03:34, 5/19/2000, (#26) Chris . . . don't you think . . . , CommonSense, 15:03:17, 5/19/2000, (#25) I'm too confused, dixie, 14:53:09, 5/19/2000, (#22) Since hinkiness is raining down all over..., Byron, 15:03:42, 5/19/2000, (#27) Byron, Policedog, 15:20:59, 5/19/2000, (#29) Chris, becky, 15:02:56, 5/19/2000, (#24) This might help..., janphi, 17:36:38, 5/19/2000, (#33) Thanks, janphi--very interesting., LurkerXIV, 17:44:16, 5/19/2000, (#34) I'm curious how this particular, lee2, 18:06:10, 5/19/2000, (#37) A Book Written by a White with a Tal Jones, CommonSense, 17:50:49, 5/19/2000, (#35) CommonSense and LurkerXIV, darby, 18:06:26, 5/19/2000, (#39) Common Sense..., LurkerXIV, 18:01:29, 5/19/2000, (#36) I'm sorry, becky, 18:20:49, 5/19/2000, (#40) Becky, Luvsbeagles, 07:19:10, 5/20/2000, (#58) So the first part - the website, CommonSense, 18:06:24, 5/19/2000, (#38) I Agree - What happened that night is the deal, CommonSense, 18:25:04, 5/19/2000, (#41) the link above,,anybody note , pat, 19:41:38, 5/19/2000, (#42) Are those J7 threads archived, Msracoon, 19:58:00, 5/19/2000, (#43) Goodness!, canadiana, 20:48:30, 5/19/2000, (#44) Isn't Gerrymander,, Holly, 21:43:03, 5/19/2000, (#45) For Whatever it's Worth. . ., Tedleg, 22:00:38, 5/19/2000, (#46) Pat, Edie Pratt, 22:50:24, 5/19/2000, (#47) real estate, maxi, 22:54:20, 5/19/2000, (#48) Lies and intimidation, Imbackon, 01:24:13, 5/20/2000, (#49) Oh Dear, Seashell, 01:41:12, 5/20/2000, (#50) To frighten her, Imbackon, 01:52:41, 5/20/2000, (#51) Tedleg, Chris, 01:59:43, 5/20/2000, (#52) 6 degrees of separation, Imbackon, 02:11:37, 5/20/2000, (#53) From All Of This I Decided, CommonSense, 04:57:18, 5/20/2000, (#54) Fascinating the way the paths cross, Cassandra, 05:51:53, 5/20/2000, (#55) FW & MW is there a connection?, fran, 06:50:36, 5/20/2000, (#57) Chris, Real Stormy, 06:49:38, 5/20/2000, (#56) Not as much fun..., Luvsbeagles, 07:40:45, 5/20/2000, (#60) More info, Starling, 07:39:05, 5/20/2000, (#59) thanks star, pat, 08:03:11, 5/20/2000, (#61) Starling, darby, 08:52:25, 5/20/2000, (#64) old JW "spade" posts, milton, 08:51:52, 5/20/2000, (#63) Pat..., becky, 08:47:32, 5/20/2000, (#62) R's 'unoffical' guest list for 12/23, fran, 09:05:07, 5/20/2000, (#66) Sorry..., fran, 09:12:59, 5/20/2000, (#67) Starling, darby, 08:54:51, 5/20/2000, (#65) Pat,, Zhanna, 09:21:56, 5/20/2000, (#69) reminds me of a rumor I once heard, becky, 09:21:16, 5/20/2000, (#68) Ho Brady reporting in for duty, MrsBrady, 11:15:44, 5/20/2000, (#70) Glad to see ya....., Policedog, 11:34:04, 5/20/2000, (#71) Darby, Starling, 12:39:44, 5/20/2000, (#73) Party with a band, becky, 12:31:07, 5/20/2000, (#72) Re-read Fran's Post #57, straykat2, 14:23:55, 5/20/2000, (#76) Starling, darby, 12:46:34, 5/20/2000, (#74) okie dokie, Starling, 12:53:48, 5/20/2000, (#75) Well, this is Number 76, sds, 14:58:28, 5/20/2000, (#77) the SAMPLES, MrsBrady, 15:21:34, 5/20/2000, (#78) samples, becky, 15:31:17, 5/20/2000, (#79) fran, darby, 16:13:10, 5/20/2000, (#80) darby, fran, 17:46:59, 5/20/2000, (#82) darby, Seashell, 17:20:06, 5/20/2000, (#81) Sea and fran, darby, 18:35:25, 5/20/2000, (#83) And anyway, Sea , darby, 18:58:01, 5/20/2000, (#84) ................................................................... "More Hinky" Posted by Denver on 13:15:41 5/19/2000 36. "My God!" Posted by hareen on 13:03:03 5/19/2000 Thank you, Chris! I've strongly suspected there are many things most of us don't know behind MW's tale. I really appreciate your telling us one of them. I remember the poster. Boy, my mind is going crazy. I have to wonder how much of the Burke-did-it stuff in the tabs was directly or indirectly due to a concerted effort on the part of this person or others. Wow! Can you say if you gave this information to the police ========== If the mystery poster has an inside the BPD connection, what good would it do to report this? More hinky.....another quote from mystery poster's emails: "Your ignorant statements about Bill Ritter are an obstruction in my path. In your lack of understanding you are also placing lives in danger." Just what was this mystery poster's path? Who was being placed in danger???? [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Well," Posted by gaiabetsy on 13:21:02 5/19/2000 Burke was sacrificed, wasn't he? Yet, we all know those true blue parents of his will step up to save him (with bogus lawsuits). I'd hate to have parents like that "protecting" me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "JW archives are...." Posted by Phantom on 13:54:51 5/19/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:54:51, 5/19/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:54:18, 5/19/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:48:11, 5/19/2000 Where? Are all of them together or viewable? Are all of the archives complete with all the forum site changes?(ALL the archives, J-7, etc.) So this poster wasn't on BNF? Thanks for all your work Chris! Edited to add. shana, where and which forum has the info about who's related to who to MW? tia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "I thought" Posted by Gemini on 13:45:43 5/19/2000 G2 passed this stuff along to everybody she could think of: BPD, FBI, Tracey, Jeff Shapiro, etc.. Right or wrong? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "The poster" Posted by darby on 14:06:08 5/19/2000 insisted that he had inside info that Burke was involved in the murder. He caused a bunch of newbies to get intrigued by his "inside" information. He also got most of the rest of us all worked up. There was a lot of time and energy wasted on this person. Now that I look back, I tend to think that the whole purpose of his purported theory was to disrupt, while at the same time, to present something OTHER than the truth. This poster might have had inside knowledge, but it was not that Burke did it. This poster might have had a motivation, but it was anything BUT justice for JonBenet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Denver" Posted by hareen on 14:13:15 5/19/2000 Can you give us any clue about what kind of remarks you or Chris or whoever made about Bill Ritter? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Double Chit" Posted by starry on 14:38:58 5/19/2000 I hate being clueless and amoung the walking "unconscious". I've just gotta say the hell with work, yard work and anything else that interferes with JW. That's all there is to it. My first thought was MM. But, I'm sure I'm wrong. I don't remember these posts. Quite possibly during the time I was away from the forum in 98. Chris, I'm glad you used your "mother wit" and stayed away from this person. It gives/gave me the creeps along with cold chills up and down my spine. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Darby" Posted by Denver on 14:27:26 5/19/2000 BINGO!!!!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Bill Ritter is our answer?" Posted by CommonSense on 14:28:39 5/19/2000 Okay, so how is he related to Bridgit? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "CommonSense" Posted by Chris on 14:34:48 5/19/2000 No, Bill Ritter isn't our answer. Bill Ritter is one of Alex's "trusted" team of DA's. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Bill Ritter" Posted by Denver on 14:33:10 5/19/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:33:10, 5/19/2000 Bill Ritter....mystery poster did not like the negative posts about Ritter..nothing associated with MW. Keep in mind, these emails are in the summer 1998 timeframe. Edited to correct the year stated. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Denver..." Posted by Policedog on 14:31:25 5/19/2000 Please open IM for a few minutes. Thanks. :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "I wish I " Posted by darby on 14:31:23 5/19/2000 knew what the poster had said about Bill Ritter, or even what Bill Ritter's role was. I was just reading FW's letter (MW III thread), and he mentions Bill Ritter. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "More..." Posted by Chris on 14:40:33 5/19/2000 To whomever suggested that this is some sort of game for guessing who MW's mother is, the answer is no. To whomever asked, this ex-poster was involved with MW's family in intimidating her. Furthermore, MW's family was getting messages to her that they claimed were from the ex-poster who claimed to be getting info from the BPD...while MW's claims were being investigated. To whomever asked, I have talked to anyone in a position of authority who will listen to report this. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Chris kitty .... Denver .... Lake.." Posted by Slinky on 14:39:51 5/19/2000 Are you sure that he's not around anymore now????? Lake... I can only think of 3 hats that he had. Was the 4th hat a new one at BNF just recently when it was opened for a few days?? I saw him post with one of his old hats there, unless it was someone else using his original hat? Slinky [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "can we guess?" Posted by Edie Pratt on 14:39:09 5/19/2000 is this poster's real name by chance, FW? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "E.P." Posted by Chris on 14:41:36 5/19/2000 No. His name was not FW. As I said before, if we said his name it would not connect to this case except as it relates to his activities on the Internet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "OK, what next?" Posted by mary99 on 15:29:47 5/19/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:29:47, 5/19/2000 So far we know that Bridget was being warned, intimidated,however you wish to call it, during the time frame 2-00 through 5-00, by this former poster...whose name is not as important as his agenda...through her family in CA. Before Bridget ever came out and contacted Lee Hill, this poster was active on the internet JBR forums, and tried to push the BDI theory. He sent a not-too-subtle threat in an e-mail which referred the addressee as being an 'obstacle in my path' and went on to say 'lives are in danger'. He defended Bill Ritter and sent veiled threats to posters who criticized him. He liked the forum members BR+JR/PR coverup theory and hinted to them they could influence the GJ if they consented to meet with his 'contact'. He wanted to meet especially with CensusGrrl to see her photos of JBR's neck. He claimed to have connections to the BPD in the early posts...and in recent warnings received by Bridget, she was told of 'BPD connections'. After Bridget appeared, her family passed along messages from him advising her not to come to Boulder...(from mame's interview) there were threats made that she would go to prison for filing a false report. And, it now comes out that he is related to Bridget. Looks like a full circle to me. edited to say, my browser's not refreshing--I go to post to the last message and it posts in the middle! Will lurk for a while, I guess. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "this stinks" Posted by dixie on 14:46:40 5/19/2000 and his activities was to spread the BR did it theory and try to influence the GJ in that also. to divert attention away from what the crap is/ was going on in boulder??? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Chris" Posted by starry on 14:45:15 5/19/2000 I just did a search and there's nothing on the archives that are here. Anywhere else I can look for this persons posts? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Chris" Posted by Tedleg on 14:45:06 5/19/2000 I asked this question on another thread. . .since you are here, I'll repeat it here. Is your concern with MW's account due to the fact that she is associated (by family ties) with this mystery poster who has tried, in the past, to manipulate speculation away from the true murderer of JBR? Is this what you think is happening here to FW? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Tedleg" Posted by Chris on 14:52:50 5/19/2000 I don't think so. This thing he tried to do with the grand jury has always bothered me. But no one would take this beer can collecting fanatic fringe Internet junkie seriously enough to even take a second look at it. As it relates to MW, my concern is that this poster has reportedly acted in a threatening manner to MW as a result of his connections to her family. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "OK Chris" Posted by Edie Pratt on 14:44:51 5/19/2000 gotcha. But, may I ask, did this poster's name mean anything to you when he sent those emails? Or, was it not until Bridget said his name that the light went off? Had you wondered about this poster with 4 hats before? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Chris" Posted by Seashell on 15:09:26 5/19/2000 Do you think that MP (mystery poster) is also an abuser and possibly connected with the murder? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "E.P." Posted by Chris on 14:55:20 5/19/2000 But, may I ask, did this poster's name mean anything to you when he sent those emails? Had you wondered about this poster with 4 hats before? Nope. Except that, as a poster, he was involved in trying to cause trouble for me personally. Maybe trying to intimidate me to stop hosting JW. Or, was it not until Bridget said his name that the light went off? When Bridget said his name, a big lightbulb went off and I guess I said, "Oh Sh*t!" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "wow" Posted by Edie Pratt on 15:03:34 5/19/2000 sounds like one of those times all the blood runs to your feet, Chris. Gives me the willies just knowing someone out there is reading and watching, I can't imagine how you must feel on a daily basis. I sort of have a vague memory of a poster named Spade, but maybe that's all the shovel and card talk? Can you tell me, is the poster friendly with FW? Was this poster at the party, 12/25/96? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Chris . . . don't you think . . . " Posted by CommonSense on 15:03:17 5/19/2000 That this poster was pro-Ramsey (doesn't want Patsy or John arrested for murder) and #1 wanted to stop JW because of the anti-Ramsey feelings, #2 pushed the Burke theory to take attention away from John and Patsy, #3 at some point learned of the FW connection to Bridgit, #4 in some indirect way influenced Bridgit to go to authorites so to discredit FW because FW is the biggest problem witness that the Ramseys face. I went back, read and posted FW's letter. He was John's best friend and was there when the body was found, it is clear that he thinks the Ramseys are guilty. The only way the RAmseys avoid this crime is if FW is discredited - Bridgit has done that. To me it is just too coincidental (I can't spell), that Bridgit is related to a poster that wants to keep everyone from thinking that John and Patsy did it. Now is this poster a part of the Ramsey team? That is the real question. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "I'm too confused" Posted by dixie on 14:53:09 5/19/2000 So this person is also getting inside info from the PD? wonder if this informant was working the case all along? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Since hinkiness is raining down all over..." Posted by Byron on 15:03:42 5/19/2000 ...I'll post it here too. I transcribed the Rocky Mountain News editorial in todays' paper on the Boyles thread if anyone is interested. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Byron" Posted by Policedog on 15:20:59 5/19/2000 Since you're here, too, I'll post here to thank you for taking the time to type that up for all of us. Really appreciate it! :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Chris" Posted by becky on 15:02:56 5/19/2000 As it relates to MW, my concern is that this poster has reportedly acted in a threatening manner to MW as a result of his connections to her family. He is a relative of MW? What connections. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "This might help..." Posted by janphi on 17:36:38 5/19/2000 http://www.sprague-database.org/04/d9609.htm#P9609 [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "Thanks, janphi--very interesting." Posted by LurkerXIV on 17:44:16 5/19/2000 Tal Jones' natural father was with the OSS, predecessor of the CIA, which latter organization has been involved in MK-Ultra, and the use and abuse of children in blackmail plots. Anyway, Tal will be thrilled to know he is the center of attention once again. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "I'm curious how this particular" Posted by lee2 on 18:06:10 5/19/2000 bit of information is known . . . Is it documented somewhere? I followed Janphi's link - buy maybe the synapses aren't firing right today. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "A Book Written by a White with a Tal Jones" Posted by CommonSense on 17:50:49 5/19/2000 This is part of a book review that I found on the following book: EDWINA PARKHURST, SPINSTER by Patricia White Hard Shell Word Factory July 1999; Disk $5.00; ISBN 1-58200-106-5 "Tal Jones was born and bred a gentleman, but the same war that crushed Edwina's chance for love destroyed all that Tal held dear. His wife and mother were raped and killed by rogue soldiers. Tal didn't rest until he'd killed the men responsible. From that moment on, he fights--and kills--for a living. That is until he's shot in the head and left for dead. When he comes to, he's blind. Thrown together and dependent upon each other for survival, Edwina and Tal face unimaginable hardships. From the haunted tum tum wawas to the deadly icy fog known as pogonip, the two forge ahead." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "CommonSense and LurkerXIV" Posted by darby on 18:06:26 5/19/2000 CommonSense--I found that same thing a few weeks ago, and was amazed that a person with the the last name of WHITE would write a fictional book about a character named TAL JONES. Unless a Fleet White relative just decided to use the name of someone she really knows, this is probably just one odd coincidence. While Jones and White are common names, the name Tal is a rarity. To see it paired with Jones by a person named White is pretty funny. LurkerXIV--do you remember the night that Spade said that you and BobC had done more to thwart justice than anyone else and should "rot in hell" for it? That post quickly got disappeared. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I read it, but I have never forgotten it. Do you have a clue as to why he said that? Also, how did you know that about his father? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Common Sense..." Posted by LurkerXIV on 18:01:29 5/19/2000 Well, the part about the brain damage rings true-- must be autobiographical! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "I'm sorry" Posted by becky on 18:20:49 5/19/2000 You all seem to be having a great time, but until you can match this to a belivable scenario that needs no riddles to explain the detail of the evening when jbr was murdered....this just seem to me to be a bunch of smoke and mirrors. If one stays focused on what we do know, it is that the Ramseys went to a party Christmas eve that was also attended by a goddaugher of Fleet Sr and her possibly her grand daughter (or at least the neice of her daughter) who have connections to kiddie sex and garrotes. There is a lot of parading around of poor MW with inuendo galore...but no answer to the very simple million dollar question. Was the claim that FW JR (or SR for that matter)sexually abused her documented prior to the murder of jbr or after? You know what, I'm not so insecure that I don't think it pretty telling that you can't tell ...what mw's name is, or what her mothers name is or even if she was there that night. So in the mean time...the only break in this case that I see is that we now have the Ramseys and Whites running in the kiddie sex porn cirles...wittingly or unwittingly. And thats a huge break to the newbies or non-watchers. If you want to make a case that the Ramseys are innocent, you have some work to do. You still haven't answered any of the key timeline questions or explained the ransom note or set the hinky meter straight. So...other than we know there is a kiddie sex link, nothing has changed. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "Becky" Posted by Luvsbeagles on 07:19:10 5/20/2000 We dont even know that!! All we know is that someone who is connected (maybe remotely) to the Whites was abused at one point in her life and that the abuser went to jail. We dont know if all the sex ring stuff is true. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "So the first part - the website" Posted by CommonSense on 18:06:24 5/19/2000 This guy says that he is a writer and says he has offices in Denver, LA and New York. Is this the same guy that you're talking about? . . . . The book review post - just a coincidence, I would think. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "I Agree - What happened that night is the deal" Posted by CommonSense on 18:25:04 5/19/2000 I don't think that this MW/Tal Jones stuff has anything to do with JonBenet's actual death, but I am beginning to think that someone has used them to spin us away from the truth. The Ramseys do have a way of doing that. In my mind the question is - can we connect Tal Jones to the Ramseys or to MW in some direct or indirect way. After seeing that Tal Jones, writer/producer website, I'm more inclined to believe that Tal Jones is off on his own about this stuff, and the Ramseys are just benefiting from the spin away from them. My theory is still - Patsy is the killer until she gives us evidence to point in some other direction. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "the link above,,anybody note " Posted by pat on 19:41:38 5/19/2000 that taljones's father married a alyce christholf for his third wife,,,isn't that name one that keeps coming up in regards to mw???? Also in the narrative on his father, he is described as being machiavellian,,,that was interesting link,,where did it come from????? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "Are those J7 threads archived" Posted by Msracoon on 19:58:00 5/19/2000 somewhere? I vaguely remember the hat, Spade, but remember better the hat Carmudg--- something or other. Don't remember what except that it was "notable". Just curious. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Goodness!" Posted by canadiana on 20:48:30 5/19/2000 I just realized how LONG I have been around here! I remember 'spade' 'mrjones' 'pinkfreud' and 'curmudgeon', 'G2' and 'curious'...... So, do I have this right? mrXYZ sent you the emails, he didn't like 'your JW', he wanted to meet with you, etc...... you declined (good idea)...fast forward; you are talking to 'Bridget', you ask her about a member of her family (her brother, uncle, brother-in-law?) and she says...oh yeah, mrXYZ....and you almost (or did) fall off your chair....Is this sort of right? The poster mrXYZ is a relative of Bridget's????? Chris, your head must be spinning! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "Isn't Gerrymander," Posted by Holly on 21:43:03 5/19/2000 Spade? The Whites have never been what they seemed. Never. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "For Whatever it's Worth. . ." Posted by Tedleg on 22:00:38 5/19/2000 R. Tal Jones has a Colorodo conviction for theft by deception. See 701 P.2d 868. It involves thefts from real estate escrow accounts. Any idea if this is the same guy? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Pat" Posted by Edie Pratt on 22:50:24 5/19/2000 Alyce Christoff married Tal Jones half brother Richard in 1971. He was 21. Now, who is Alyce Christoff? I have read her name here before, but forgot the connection. Anyone? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "real estate" Posted by maxi on 22:54:20 5/19/2000 If I remember correctly, spade had an interest in real estate that related to his interest in this case. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Lies and intimidation" Posted by Imbackon on 01:24:13 5/20/2000 The only other significant thing that MW said regarding THIS CASE, is that her Mother told her that she and her neice were at the Whites party. Why hasn't ANYONE figured this one out! Think about it, obviously MW'S mother is not a nice person. She has supposedly done things to MW that are absolutely evil. She want's MW to be quiet and cooperative. So why would it be so hard to believe that MW'S mother was lying to her that they were at the whites? Look at what can happen to you, she is saying. Maybe she is associated with Whites and that is all there is to it. It may have just been a convenient lie to tell MW when JBr who happened to know the whites was killed in such a horrific fashion. Also, Eddie Pratt, I believe you are reading the genealogy thread incorrectly. I believe Tal's father's 3rd wife is Alyce, not his brothers wife. Imbackon [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Oh Dear" Posted by Seashell on 01:41:12 5/20/2000 I'm beginning to feel like my own grandpa! My bedtime question is this: Why would MW's mother tell her she and the niece were at FW's party - and then why did she change her story, if she did? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "To frighten her" Posted by Imbackon on 01:52:41 5/20/2000 Imagine this. You are a wicked witch. Your daughter on occasion threatens to expose you as such. You never spent any time in jail for your crimes. And maybe you are still involved in criminal acts. So now and then you like to keep her in line by telling her BS. In this case the BS was that she somehow is connected in someway to a murdered girl who was killed in a fashion that is like some of the stuff that you used to expose your daughter to. It's kind of like where abusers tell their victims that if they are not quiet they will kill them or their pets etc... And if something like a neighbors cat dies and you just happen to hate this neighbor you might imply that you had something to do with the cat being killed. Makes sense to me, and I'm not an evil thinker usually. All I know is that according to MW her mother told her that she was at the whites. There is no verifying info that her mother was at the whites and to the police the mother denies it. But this theory gives a motive for her mother to lie to MW about it, and it keeps MW truthful at the same time. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "Tedleg" Posted by Chris on 01:59:43 5/20/2000 I think so. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "6 degrees of separation" Posted by Imbackon on 02:11:37 5/20/2000 Btw, I am looking at where TJ is born on the genealogy site. I am originally from the town that is right next to it! They are not big cities. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "From All Of This I Decided" Posted by CommonSense on 04:57:18 5/20/2000 That I'm glad I don't live anywhere near my crazy cousins. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "Fascinating the way the paths cross" Posted by Cassandra on 05:51:53 5/20/2000 and keep crossing. Interesting research. Thanks, Cassie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "FW & MW is there a connection?" Posted by fran on 07:54:45 5/20/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 07:54:45, 5/20/2000 It is hard to know who to trust or what to believe in this new world of cyberspace, because you can't see their eyes. You can't watch their body language or hear them speak, and therefor you can't judge their true character by using your own built-in human instincts (your bs detector). So the best you can go on is their long-term reputation for being honest and consistent. But, after a while, and with enough time and information, you can get an idea of who to trust and believe. I have been around (mostly lurking), since day one - on BNF, J7, Tom somebody's forum? JW - read but never posted at The Swamp or WebSleuths. Also, got burt out/disgusted, and was away all of 1999. But for the most part I remember most of the players. (My theory has always been and still is that the R's (one or both) are responsible for the death of JBR, and that Patsy wrote the R-note. Beyond that, I guess I am open to wherever the evidence leads us.) Having said all this and FWIW, I just wanted to add my 2cents to the MW discussion/theory. First off, I trust mame, Chris and BJ (I trust many others also, but just for the sake of this subject I mention their names). I trust their opinions and their gut instincts, and admire their dedication. I believe MW's story completely. I don't know if it is directly related to JBR's death, but time will tell. I strongly believe that it could be related, and this whole thing is bigger than any of us ever imagined. As far as FW, I on one hand have a problem with the theory that he is directly involved, and that comes from his persistence in trying to get AH to 'do the right thing'. FW wanted to call in special investigators. If he had something to hide why would he want the FBI or special investigators involved - they are experts and would surely find him out. OR, was FW desperate to have AH 'rush to judgement' - prosecute the R's so his own/or his father's involvement would never come to light? Maybe that is the big question? You can read FW's Letter to the people of Colorado here http://www.angelfir.com/oh4/candytimeline/08191998FleetWhiteToPeopleOf">http://www.angelfire.com/oh4/candytimeline/08191998FleetWhiteToPeopleOfCo.txt"">http://www.angelfir.com/oh4/candytimeline/08191998FleetWhiteToPeopleOf Co.txt">http://www.angelfire.com/oh4/candytimeline/08191998FleetWhiteToPeopleOfCo.txt" Then, on the flip side of FW's defense is his obvious family connection to MW - although it could be a generation removed. Is this a coincidence? I don't know - it's hard to believe that it is. Didn't John Douglas say that there are no coincidences in a murder case? Or was that Colombo?? Anyway, one of my favorite sites is ACandyRose's Timeline. Very interesting stuff! I was just reading a couple of things that I thought were important to the MW discussion. I will post them below, because this post if inexcusably long. Thanks for you time. Ps: If there is a connection to FW/family and JBR's death I want to know the truth. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "Chris" Posted by Real Stormy on 06:49:38 5/20/2000 Was the FBI among the "anyone who would listen?" If not, then call your local field office of the FBI and speak to an agent. They apparently have an open file on this MW matter. I don't know what your evidence is, but if it sounds serious enough they will pay attention to it. The problem is that there has been so much craziness about MW, that it might not be taken seriously. And if that's the case, it would be unfortunate because this is the first bit that appears to be provable. I've been on the MW forums since the beginning and I well remember some of the posts as well as the poster others have mentioned, although I must say I don't remember any threats. And he was on the forums long, long before the MW affair became public knowledge. This is a significant factor to me, as well as his offer to influence the GJ long before MW became public knowledge. Of course, that could have been braggadocio trying to impress you, or it could have been serious. In any event, neither you nor I nor any other member of this forum is in a position to pursue this, other than to try to put it in the hands of a proper government entity. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "Not as much fun..." Posted by Luvsbeagles on 07:40:45 5/20/2000 as all of this speculation and stuff, but I still say this isnt all that hinky. EVERYONE has crazy relatives or relatives with crazy friends. Remind me to tell you about my cousin Johnny sometime (who by the way was cremated when he died and the job of burying him fell to my father....who remarked, "Hereeees Johnnnnnnny" when Johnny's remains were sent in the mail). It isnt odd that FW would have some distant fringe relatives, and or friends who are interested in this case. If my cousins fathers first wifes nephew were involved in a major muder such as this I would follow forums too. Heck I follow the case and I am not related to anyone on it!! I guess what I am trying to say is that all we really know at this point is that MW who is vaguely connected to the Whites was abused at one point and sent her abuser to jail. We dont know if all the sex ring stuff is true. We dont know if "Spade" knows anything at all about this case. He may just be reading along with the rest of us, but thought he could get a few "theories" to FW before he testified. We dont even know if FW knows what happened that night. (Although I would think he has a few opinions). At the risk of sounding like a wet blanket....please be careful with all the speculating. It can sometimes make things worse not better. Now if you'll excuse me, I will go back to speculating with the rest of you! :) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "More info" Posted by Starling on 07:39:05 5/20/2000 I am so glad to see this come out. The poster in question was the first person to actually name names of guests at the Whites over the holidays - before that we had only known them as, guests from California. This poster publically stated that the first responder report named Bill and Heather Cox, as following Fleet and Priscilla White over to the Ramsey house the morning of the 26th. We did not have this information. It was new. It would later be verified in Schiller's book. The posting dates on these posts proove beyond a reasonable doubt this poster had inside info others didn't - it does tie a connection. He made other ascertions - but I haven't seen them verified one is - here are some quotes by this poster - I'm leaving names and dates off for the time being. "Fleet has an older boy from a previous marriage." "I've lived in Colorado for 30+ years and I have been fortunate to make friends with many people associated with our system of justice. Several of my friends have seen portions of the evidence. When I have presented them with my theory they have either overtly agreed or subtly gave me information. I have not asked nor have I been told about any evidence that supports or refutes my ideas of what happened the night of 12/25/96. I also share information with several law enforce- ment professionals who TOTALLY disagree with me." "Lake - Could it have been snowing inside of FW's that night? Was that why johnoy needed a sleeping pill and needed to buy time?" "Quotes Officer French as saying that shortly after the BPD arr., the Fernies arr., followed by the Whites and the Whites house guests, Bill and Heather Cox. There is no mention of anyone other than jr/pr/burke at the house when the BPD arr." "Lake - Why did you edit your post about the meeting with the PI from the EA?" PI = Private Investigator EA = Ellis Armistead "Leaks - lake would like us to believe that the BPD painted itself in a corner early in the case by leaking to the media. This is a lie. The main source of leaks has been and still is hal haddon's office. lake's primary source is a PI in hh's office who has had years of experience in covering up crime for hal's clients. My advice: CYOA ellis before you lose your license to snoop." Fllet White - lake has tried to throw Fleet White, his children, his in-laws, and his house guests under the bus. Hir current rant is that FW is mentally unstable. It is amazing that lake feels free to spout all this b.s. about FW and at the same time doesn't even know who FW's lawyer is. If this isn't an example of "paid posting" then we will probably never see one. Ask yourself what does lake or anyone have to gain by demeaning FW? Does anyone else on this forum think it advances finding JFJB by doing this?" In early 1997 Boulder County Social Services interviewed jr, pr, and burke. The interviews were held to determine if burke was to be removed from jr/pr custody. An inter-departmental disute erupted shortly after the interviews were completed. The majority opinion was that Burke should be placed in a foster home until the investigation had "cleared" jr/pr. However, hofstrom argued against Social Services recommendation saying basically that the risk of pr committing suicide was greater than the risk of jr/pr harming burke." "I have made copies of all of lake's posts where hir accused Fleet White and his family of culpability in JonBenet's death and turned them over to the proper authorities. I hope they follow up as promised. The bad news is that htis may take bynum off the hook. The questions re Bill and Heather Cox, the "passenger" list, and the source of the 6 in the hose statement are moot. burke killed his sister by accident and jr/pr have covered it up. Live with it folks that is the way it is." Lake - will you please clear some of this up. What was he talking about you having a meeting with a PI from EA? He made it sound like a bias was showing - and I've never once seen you throw a Ramsey under the bus, even though I've personally asked you on another forum to keep an open mind. The truth shall set you free! For everyone else - in the above quotes there are two which have intimidating tones/threats about them - one to EA and one to Lake personally. Starling [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "thanks star" Posted by pat on 08:03:11 5/20/2000 where did you find all those,,and for a pposter above fleet sr. was married to alyce christhoff who is fleet jr's mom I think. And from another thread spades dad, biological, who in janphi's post abandoned him at birth, married the same alyce as his third wife. This is all confusing but I think spade or whoever he is is fleets step brother. Am I right old timers? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "Starling" Posted by darby on 08:52:25 5/20/2000 Thanks for that account. Do you happen to have all of the archives? Is there anyone here who does? I also remember a VERY direct threat by Spade to a poster here who still posts--he used her REAL first name. He actually threatened to go over to her house and extract an apology--I don't remember the issue, but it certainly wasn't worthy of bodily harm. I do believe that this was the undoing of Spade in JW. I never saw him post here again. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "old JW "spade" posts" Posted by milton on 08:51:52 5/20/2000 Hi, all. I haven't read all the posts on the "hinky" topic, but I do see that some of you are referring to a poster named "spade." I have a couple of old JW posts from "spade" (which I kept because my own postings were involved). Here is a clip that some of you might find interesting. These posts involve "spade" and "gsquared," as well as someone named "Jane," and a couple of others. The interesting part in the context of the present discussion might be spade's comment about "over at the slut's forum"--which, I assume (?), is a reference to Jameson. And "spade" mentions "lake." Anyway, here are the old posts: "Whoever fights monsters..." Posted by Jane on 15:52:35 10/03/98 Include Original Message on Reply should see to it that he does not become a monster. And when you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you. Nietzsche 1. "Yes, Jane." Posted by milton on 15:59:07 10/03/98 Include Original Message on Reply That's Robert Ressler's source for the title of his book _Whoever Fights Monsters_--a passage from Nietzsche's _Thus Spake Zarathurstra_, which he quotes as the epigraph to the volume. What is the point that you are attempting to make by repeating it here? 2. "Fighting monsters." Posted by Phantom on 16:25:52 10/03/98 Include Original Message on Reply It seems to me that when someone fights with a monster, other people aren't impressed. They say that the monster is too small, hasn't killed enough, or is being killed on the wrong day. ???????????????? 3. "Jane" Posted by spade on 16:27:14 10/03/98 Include Original Message on Reply It will be interesting to read your response to milton. His post reads like you may be overmatched again. Your rhetoric would play a lot better over at the slut's forum. They had a thread over there that implied JonBenet may have died because she was a pedophile in a previous life and lake has a current rant that ties a child to the psychic's sketch. You will be right at home. 4. "Jane" Posted by Spencer on 16:51:15 10/03/98 Include Original Message on Reply And your point would be??? Would you be so kind as to label your monsters for us, so we would all have an idea of who you are talking about. Are we still talking about last night's topic of mislabeled pedophiles, or have you moved on to a new arena this evening? 5. "Jane" Posted by gsquared on 17:25:51 10/03/98 Include Original Message on Reply "I don't want to live: I want to love, and live only incidentally." ~ Zelda Fitzgerald 6. "OK" Posted by milton on 17:50:23 10/03/98 Include Original Message on Reply As long as we are dealing in quotes here, I'll offer the one that I think best expresses what this forum is all about--it's from Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." 7. "Well Said, Milton" Posted by gsquared on 17:57:14 10/03/98 Include Original Message on Reply Well Said 8. "MILTON" Posted by spade on 17:59:21 10/03/98 Include Original Message on Reply Great quote, thanks. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "Pat..." Posted by becky on 08:49:33 5/20/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:49:33, 5/20/2000 >And >from another thread spades dad, biological, >who in janphi's post abandoned him >at birth, married the same alyce >as his third wife. This is >all confusing .. wait..I'm going to go back and read the new posts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "R's 'unoffical' guest list for 12/23" Posted by fran on 09:05:07 5/20/2000 Don't know if this has changed but.... Just lost my post. Will try again. I found this post in the old archives from ACandyRose Timeline. Wanted to go back to this list because of what MW's mother said about being at the White's on Xmas day. I know this is the R's "unofficial" 12/23 Xmas Party guest list and the source is not someone that I have ever trusted - on most accounts. I think we all know that his/it's/their information was dead-on-b^lls accurate at times though. Maybe just a little too accurate and premature sometimes. Personally, I find J^^s one of the most interesting and suspect subcultures of this entire mystery. Anyway, I thought this might give us an idea of who could have still been in town for the White's Xmas day dinner. Look at the W's party list. Who are the two unknown males from Ca? Are they connected to MW? How long were they in Boulder, and where did they stay? Didn't FW have a house on 15th Street, just two doors down down from the R's? Did they or anyone stay there, i.e. White Sr., or any of these people? From AcandyRose Site Timeline ">http://members.aol.com/ACRarchive/1998.html"> htttp://menbers.aol.com/ACRarchive/1998.html Thread Link: 10-21-1998 -- Jameson starts an "unofficial" list of the 1998 Christmas Guest List ">http://webbsleuths1998.tripod.com/10211998XmasPartyGuestList.htm#15"> http://webbsleuths1998.tripod.com/10211998XmasPartyGuestList.htm#15 "Xmas party guest list" Posted by jameson on 15:17:19 10/21/98 NOTE: THIS MESSAGE WAS LASTED EDITED ON 15:17:19, 10/21/98 The Guest List (not official and I removed the names of the children) People at the Ramsey's Christmas party Dec. 23,1996,5pm-8pm * John and Patsy Ramsey, Burke, JonBenét * Don Paugh * Fleet and Priscilla White, daughter (5-6), son (7-8) * Mr. & Mrs. R.A. Brown (Priscilla's parents) * Boyfriend of Priscilla's sister (attended alone,without his girlfriend) Said to be from California * Husband of Priscilla's niece (attended alone,without his wife) Said to be from California * John and Barbara Fernie, son (10), daughter (14-15?) * Friend of the Fernie son - male (about 9) * Glen and Susan Stine, son (9) * Susan's mother * Glen's mother * Larry and Pinquie Barber, daughter (10?), son (6?) * Joe and Betty Barnhill [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL fran ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "Sorry..." Posted by fran on 09:12:59 5/20/2000 My formatting needs work! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL fran ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "Starling" Posted by darby on 08:59:06 5/20/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:59:06, 5/20/2000 edited to say that I'm just plain confused. LOL [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 69. "Pat," Posted by Zhanna on 09:21:56 5/20/2000 I tend to think that Alyce would not have been Sr's first wife because (according to the SS death records and assuming I have the right Alyce in mind)she would have been several years older than Sr. I am wondering, however, if she might have been his older sister or perhaps his wife's older sister. If I were to guess, I'd guess Senior's wife's older sister because of the similar use of the letter "y" in both of the names -- which parents often do when naming children. (If that turns out to be the case, then that would make her Junior's aunt, and TJ would then be Junior's cousin by marriage.) BTW, does anyone remember where the Ramsey family was from prior to moving to Michigan? Was it Minnesota? And wasn't JR's father a military man too? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "reminds me of a rumor I once heard" Posted by becky on 09:21:16 5/20/2000 House on 15th street reminds me of a rumor I once heard from someone that they had a friend.(etc) who was at a party down the street from the Ramseys the night of the murder. It was a fairly big or wild party...but that no one from the police dept ever questioned them about it..or some such thing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 70. "Ho Brady reporting in for duty" Posted by MrsBrady on 11:15:44 5/20/2000 That rumor was from J.T. Colfax - a fellow inmate at the BOCO jail was one of the guests at a party North of 15th (from the Hell Hole) to the next cross street (is that Baseline?) - he sent me an actual note from the dude, he was a former member of some rock group, something normal sounding like "The Standards" - anyone remember? Adding to hinky - Allipat, GSquared and I became honored to be part of Mr. Jones/spade email coffee clache - I got disgusted with it because he wanted to dictate research topics to us and needed constant adoration (suffering synchophants!) - Anywho, one of the 'tasks' he asked of me was to find out the name of the White's attorney, that was in the Fall of '98...of course, I didn't do that, couldn't do that, I think the only attempt I made was an email inquiry to Mame. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 71. "Glad to see ya....." Posted by Policedog on 11:34:04 5/20/2000 Brady..... (I *do* like the new nick) I'm going to check and see what I might have regarding that party info.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 73. "Darby" Posted by Starling on 12:39:44 5/20/2000 Don't be confused, dear :-) Now, I'm forgetting - just who did he threaten again with bodily harm? I recall that incident but the intricate details such as, who and why illude me. Starling [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 72. "Party with a band" Posted by becky on 12:33:41 5/20/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:33:41, 5/20/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:32:11, 5/20/2000 so it wasn't just a rumor then...the person I heard it from had hung around in one of those Portland style grunge bands and heard if from someone or someone's someone who had actually been there...or so the story went. Too bad I didn't ask more questions...kind of blew it off at the time thinking it was unlikely that police really wouldn't have investigated a huge or wild party a couple houses away on the night of the murder. Not like there wouldn't have been lots of people to ask..right? But, above post wondereding if perhaps the CA males had stayed at the house makes me more interested in the tale. And even more interested in the fact that we hear nothing of it. And when is anyone ever going to confirm or deny that Patsy didn't go out again that evening? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 76. "Re-read Fran's Post #57" Posted by straykat2 on 14:23:55 5/20/2000 Fran's links to Fleet White's "Letter to the People" is the key to this mystery. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 74. "Starling" Posted by darby on 12:46:34 5/20/2000 I don't think it's mine to say... Suffice to say, this person is VERY much here and my guess is that she was probably worried because she didn't live all that far from Spade... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 75. "okie dokie" Posted by Starling on 12:53:48 5/20/2000 It's prolly not a good thing to open that can of worms anyways. Star [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 77. "Well, this is Number 76" Posted by sds on 14:58:28 5/20/2000 and nobody is going to read it, anyway. But I think the garrot is the big clue to uncovering this mystery of who or those who-donit. As John Ramsey said in one of his interviews, the garrot is a professional strangling device, so who had the knowledge to compose one of these, or what was the purpose? I think that the garrot puts this case squarely in what MW is talking about. There are too many simalarities to dismiss this entirely. And if this case is this complex and potentially involves more people than we thought originally, no wonder everybody in Boulder wants to sweep it under the rug. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 78. "the SAMPLES" Posted by MrsBrady on 15:21:34 5/20/2000 that's the name of the band that the party-goer belonged to... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 79. "samples" Posted by becky on 15:31:17 5/20/2000 hmmm...maybe if I see my friend again I can see if I can get more info (will be awhile) got any questions you want me to ask? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 80. "fran" Posted by darby on 16:13:10 5/20/2000 I read the letter and it, too, makes me wonder. What follows is one interpretation for looking at FW's letter in light of MW's informatation being valid. If a special prosecutor had been called in, wouldn't s/he have worked strictly with the police? We all must know by now what the theory of the police is. It's Patsy-in-a-rage all the way. The police think that the sexual assault had to do with Patsy's rough toilet training rather than the type in which the perp molests his victim for his own sexual gratification. In his letter, Fleet White was VERY specific about who he felt was the enemy, and it was Alex Hunter, NOT the police. It's true that Alex Hunter has never liked Fleet White, never trusted him. On top of that, my take on the case is that Alex Hunter has never ignored the prior sexual abuse. I think that he has long sensed that John was molesting JonBenet and that the murder was not a simple case of toilet training gone awry. On top of that, Hunter felt that more evidence was needed before anybody could be charged. Hence, the case has dragged on and on, and nobody has been charged. Let's say that FW had been involved in the horrid activities that I believe MW says he has been. My view is that if FW had major things to hide, his dream come true would be if Patsy was charged with murdering her daughter over bedwetting. You might think that Fleet would benefit most from NOBODY being charged, and this is true. But, Fleet could have realized that the longer this drags on, the more chance there would be that something might come up which would draw the going theory into the realm of a sex crime. Getting Patsy tried for bedwetting, whether or not she'd get convicted, would keep the focus of the crime AWAY from the sexual nature of the crime. And if Patsy had been charged with killing JBR over bedwetting, do you think for a minute that the Ramseys would spill all the beans about the sex ring? NO WAY! While the Ramseys might want nothing more than to drag the entire Circle of Fiends down with them, they would never, ever do it if they would have to admit that they were part of that Circle. And there is no way I can see FW having anything to do with this unless the Ramseys are in it up to their ears right along with him. So, in short, the appointment of a special prosecutor, who would work with the police in developing their theory of a bedwetting rage murder, would benefit FW if indeed, MW is right about him. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 82. "darby" Posted by fran on 17:46:59 5/20/2000 That's the way I see it too. Remember the search warrants in the beginning and how it was so obvious they were looking for any evidence linking JR to pornography. And the BPD have admitted that this is the second time they have investigated the possibility of JB's murder being linked to some kind of 'sex ring'. Saying that both times they have not been able to prove anything. I thought that the carefully worded BPD press release was very interesting. They don't say JB's murder is NOT connected to a 'sex ring', they say they can't prove it. Or am I reading this wrong? "This is the second time Boulder Police have investigated the possibility of JonBenet's death being connected to a "sex ring" or pornographic operation involving numerous people. On each occasion, no credible evidence was found to support such speculation." "We needed to take the time to complete a thorough investigation," Police Chief Mark Beckner said. "Unfortunately, the allegations have led to speculation that Fleet and Priscilla White, former close friends of the Ramseys and hosts of the 1996 Christmas party, were somehow involved in the sexual abuse and death of JonBenet. We have no evidence whatsoever to support this and have never had evidence to support such an allegation. Nor do we have any evidence that John and Patsy Ramsey were part of or participated in a child sex ring operation." As Becky so aptly put it on another thread, it's what the BPD press release DOESN'T say. To quote Becky, "What the BPD press release essentially DOESN'T say is that the Ramseys are clear of murder or that the Whites are clear from connections to those who run in the kiddie sex circles." If they ever connect the two LOOK OUT! Guess I would have to eat my hat then, because I have always thought AH was nothing but a spineless politician who would do anything to stonewall this investigation for his own selfserving purpose. The jury is still out on that one. ;-) But, you can bet I would gladly eat my hat - at high noon, right in front of the Pearl Street Boulder Cam if I've been wrong about ol Alex - and love every bite. Yum, yum!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL fran ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 81. "darby" Posted by Seashell on 17:20:06 5/20/2000 The problem with your above post is that Patsy wouldn't take the fall for all of them, would she? Or is she a willing patsy, knowing that she couldn't possibly be convicted, or....if convicted, she could always start singing. I'd never thought of Patsy being a willing patsy, or, in your scenario, she could still be the sacrificial Patsy and totally innocent. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 83. "Sea and fran" Posted by darby on 18:37:07 5/20/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:37:07, 5/20/2000 fran, yes, I saw the careful wording in the BPD's statement as well. Sea--You know, the only way Patsy might be willing is if she knew somehow that there would be reasonable doubt and she could be cleared. Lou Smit claimed that there was unidentified male DNA found in JBR's panties. If that's true, then there's reasonable doubt. Or how about the formidible task a prosecutor might have of showing a solid reason why a mother such as Patsy who had just killed her otherwise beloved daughter in a rage would then decide to garrote and molest the dying child? And the more I think about it, the more I wonder how in the world anyone would buy this theory--the defense would have a field day with it. The Ramseys would be cleared and could never be charged again. Case forever closed. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 84. "And anyway, Sea " Posted by darby on 18:58:01 5/20/2000 There's nothing that says that John and Patsy have to agree with the encouragement of FW to hang Patsy. FW can push for this all he wants and there's still no way the Ramseys would tell the world about the sex ring. Let's face it, if the Ramseys so much as know about it, then they must either be involved in it or have something so hideous to hide that they may as well be involved in it. Otherwise, they would have blown the whistle ages ago. I don't know, though. I REALLY don't know. None of this could be true. But the fact still remains that the condition of JBR's garroted, molested, possibly stun-gunned body--has always looked like the end result of ritual sex abuse gone too far. Nobody could ever believe their eyes, however, because there is substantial indication that the parents are in it up to their ears. And these parents could not possibly be part of a sex ring. So the conclusion was that this must have been elaborate staging and the injuries could not have been from a stun gun, for these parents could never have used one. But NOW somebody steps forward, presumably with written documentation, who says that the guy the Ramseys were with on the murder night was into ritual child abuse. Their best friend. What are we supposed to think now? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]