Justice Watch Support JW "Strange evidence taken" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Strange evidence taken, Show Me, 08:04:30, 5/19/2001 ShowMe, Greenleaf, 09:16:35, 5/19/2001, (#1) Thank you Greenleaf, Show Me, 09:27:56, 5/19/2001, (#2) Suggestion, driver, 09:35:05, 5/19/2001, (#3) Strange evidence?, Ginja, 10:46:08, 5/19/2001, (#4) ginja, v_p, 11:19:55, 5/19/2001, (#5) Shame it wasn't..., Show Me, 12:22:01, 5/19/2001, (#6) v_p, Ginja, 12:39:39, 5/19/2001, (#7) hmmmm, v_p, 13:20:45, 5/19/2001, (#8) Seriously, v_p, Ginja, 13:38:40, 5/19/2001, (#9) tongue in cheek Ginja, v_p, 13:57:54, 5/19/2001, (#10) earring in the street, South, 20:15:23, 5/20/2001, (#11) South and Ginja, fly, 10:01:15, 5/21/2001, (#12) rope, fly, 16:47:24, 5/23/2001, (#13) The rope.., Florida, 18:04:31, 5/23/2001, (#14) Doesn't work, Florida, Watching you, 18:11:05, 5/23/2001, (#15) Strange evidence, Ellique, 19:32:08, 5/23/2001, (#17) Ell...Re: the drawer, Mee Too, 19:47:55, 5/23/2001, (#18) Ell..Re:drawer, Mee Too, 19:51:48, 5/23/2001, (#19) The Duffle Bag...., Mee Too, 19:27:24, 5/23/2001, (#16) Sending out Wolf Whistle, JR, 20:04:56, 5/23/2001, (#20) desk. and panties...., rose, 22:30:06, 5/23/2001, (#21) ................................................................... "Strange evidence taken" Posted by Show Me on 08:04:30 5/19/2001 In the search warrants some strange items were taken by the BPD as evidence. Broken purple ornament in basement (possible cause of stun gun like marks?) Red pocketknife with broken ornament (another broken ornament?) Canvas bag in crawlspace (in a home thousands and thousands of square feet, why use a crawlspace?) Santa Claus suit (for those 'special' occasions?) Earring in street (the good kind or K-Mart?) Any thoughts on this? [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "ShowMe" Posted by Greenleaf on 09:16:35 5/19/2001 You didn't mention the Christmas tree angel. To me, that was the most curious thing of all. Greenleaf p.s. Welcome to the fourm, ShowMe. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Thank you Greenleaf" Posted by Show Me on 09:27:56 5/19/2001 The angel is a curious one, especially since it was taken from the Christmas tree. Which tree I wonder? Didn't JonBenet's tree have angel ornaments on it? Golf clubs were taken too. I read in one of the case books that John had asked for his golf clubs from the house after the murder. Two sets of clubs or did the BPD already have the golf clubs John asked for? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Suggestion" Posted by driver on 09:35:05 5/19/2001 Well, if the Christmas Tree angel was on the floor, it may have simply been taken to be dusted for prints or something..(probably Patsy told them she'd never seen that angel before in her life.) heh I would think the same thing might go for the purple ornament piece found in the basement..it was "out of place" therefore somehow could have figured in, shards could have later shown up on the body, etc. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Strange evidence?" Posted by Ginja on 10:46:08 5/19/2001 Not really. This is a homicide (not homicidal-- although that could be questioned! lol) investigation. As with any evidence collection, if it doesn't look right, or if it's broken, or if it's out of place, it's going to be scooped up and taken in. It's like that saying, "shoot first, ask questions later." That's what this is...take it, ask questions later." Because you aren't going to get another chance. Broken purple ornament in basement (possible cause of stun gun like marks?) The ornament is broken, reason 1 for collecting, e.g., possible sign of struggle or possible sign of intrusion (coming or going). Reason 2 would pertain to it's location and situation, e.g., crime scene and were there other ornaments around or was this a loner? As to the possibility of being a source for the stun gun marks...investigators didn't know or think of stun guns at the time the evidence was collected. This was prior to the autopsy and investigators weren't aware of the marks. Red pocketknife with broken ornament (another broken ornament?) Again, same reasons as above: (1) possible use in crime and (2) location (crime scene). Investigators knew of the ligatures and duct tape so the pocketknife could have been used to cut both. Also, ownership. Was it brought in and used in the crime? Or did it belong in the house? Canvas bag in crawlspace (in a home thousands and thousands of square feet, why use a crawlspace?) All points of ingress and egress have to be checked out. Even though the crawlspace goes nowhere, an intruder may not have realized it was a crawlspace to nowhere. OTOH, the perp may have known and stashed something there. As it turned out, the bag and contents belonged to the family. Further examination revealed a semen stained towel (JAR). This could be evidence of possible involvement of JAR in the crime; but if there's absolutely no other evidence to link the items or JAR to the crime, then it simply appears to be something JAR, embarassed, stashed away from his parents until he could remove it later...and then forgot. Santa Claus suit (for those 'special' occasions?) Circumstances and location. It was Christmas and a child found dead in the basement. The suit could have been a lure. Earring in street (the good kind or K-Mart?) Circumstances and location again. And again, you take everything that's out of place and ask questions later. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "ginja" Posted by v_p on 11:25:35 5/19/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:25:35, 5/19/2001 I thought the semen stained "blanket" was in the suitcase by the window ... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Shame it wasn't..." Posted by Show Me on 12:22:01 5/19/2001 ...the Miss West Virginia dress and crown. The BPD may have gotten an interview quicker. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "v_p" Posted by Ginja on 12:39:39 5/19/2001 Good point. Guess I got the two confused. So what was in the canvass bag? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "hmmmm" Posted by v_p on 13:20:45 5/19/2001 The intruder's prosthesis? The rope? The duct tape? The book Kidnapping For Dummies? I would love to know Ginja... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Seriously, v_p" Posted by Ginja on 13:38:40 5/19/2001 If there was anything of note in that bag, it would have been leaked. Duct tape? Rope? I hardly think so. What's crucial here that I think is being missed is that the bag belonged in that house to one of its members. IOW, no one brought it into the house...with or without contents such as stun guns and tape! ;-) And isn't that what this whole investigation is out to undercover....whoddunit? Was this an inside job or an outside job? How much evidence is there that points to that house and that house alone. By the same token, what evidence is there that points away from an inside job, i.e., intruder? Off the top of my head, none that I can think of. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "tongue in cheek Ginja" Posted by v_p on 13:57:54 5/19/2001 I think if there were anything incriminating to PR or JR in that duffle bag .. NO, it would not have been leaked, dependent upon it's importance. Loose wouldn't leak it if it pointed to PR or JR and BPD wouldn't leak it if it is a key piece of evidence should a trial ever become a reality. Whatever the reason, if anything was in the bag, it hasn't been leaked ... which should tell you something... IMO. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "earring in the street" Posted by South on 20:15:23 5/20/2001 there was once speculation that the earring might have been a match to one that was on the santa bear. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "South and Ginja" Posted by fly on 10:01:15 5/21/2001 South - Yes, that was discussed. However, the idea that there was an earring on the Santa bear in the first place is only speculation by some posters. Ginja - Where was it stated that the duffel bag was the Ramsey's. Was it in one of the books? If it has not been claimed by the Ramseys, I find one of the suspects described in the newspaper article rather intriguing. The suicide case not only had a stun gun and Hi-Tek boots, but also a tape of a news broadcast about a 5 year old who was kidnapped, murdered, and later found in a duffel bag. Probably coincidence, but intriguing, especially if the duffel bag is not the Ramseys. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "rope" Posted by fly on 16:47:24 5/23/2001 The bag of rope that has been part of Smit's presentations is not listed on any of the search warrant inventories. Why not? How many other items of potential significance were taken but not listed? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "The rope.." Posted by Florida on 18:15:30 5/23/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:15:30, 5/23/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:13:44, 5/23/2001 I tried to make a link to a picture of the rope at Websleuths and it didn't go through. Anyway.. If you go to the real Websleuths and look at the "New Smit pics from Fox" thread you will see a picture of the rope the Ramsey's say they've never seen before. If you go to post #10 you will see that this statement is open to question. Wasn't you WY, it was whatever I did. I don't know why I couldn't get it to work. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Doesn't work, Florida" Posted by Watching you on 18:11:05 5/23/2001 is it just me? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Strange evidence" Posted by Ellique on 19:32:08 5/23/2001 My source tells me that they also took one of the small top drawers out of an old antique German crockensule which was in the basement just outside the room where JonBenet was found. John and Patsy are now upset because it seems to have been lost by the BPD and if it can't be replaced, the antique will be much much less valuable. It was under an old drop cloth, allegedly waiting to be crated for shipmwnt over to Dresden for refurbishing. The item was valued at over $175,000.00. What the L is going on here? Love, Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Ell...Re: the drawer" Posted by Mee Too on 19:47:55 5/23/2001 >My source tells me that they also >took one of the small top >drawers out of an old antique >German crockensule which was in the >basement just outside the room where >JonBenet was found. >It was under an old drop cloth, This is too crazy...My girlfriend had a dream (three and a half years ago..I have not shared her dream) there was something hiden/or evidence in an antique dresser it was in the top drawer...(something about green felt/something was hidden underneath it.....She said the dresser or desk was covered with some type of cloth.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Ell..Re:drawer" Posted by Mee Too on 19:51:48 5/23/2001 >>My source tells me that they also >>took one of the small top >>drawers out of an old antique >>German crockensule which was in the >>basement just outside the room where >>JonBenet was found. >>It was under an old drop cloth, > > This is too crazy...My girlfriend had >a dream (three and a half >years ago..I have not shared her >dream) there was something hiden/or evidence >in an antique dresser it was >in the top drawer...(something about green >felt/something was hidden underneath it.....She said >the dresser or desk was covered >with some type of cloth.... and it was in the BASEMENT...hmmmm Maybe something maybe nothing.... ......(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "The Duffle Bag...." Posted by Mee Too on 19:27:24 5/23/2001 I too found it VERY interesting that Bootman had a video with a news report on the child that had been murdered and her body discovered in a Duffle Bag...They to my knowledge did NOT say how this child was murdered...However her killer has NOT been caught..I believe that happen 8 years ago.... Wasn't there a reported hat with SBTC also on Bootmans dresser...? I don't believe ALL evidence has been leaked...We/I sure never heard about the rope found in a bag in Jar's/or guest bedroom ......The rope reportly had black TAPE on the ends.....I can't understand WHY Lou leaked this info.... Ginja....I have NEVER heard of a semen stained towel in the Duffle bag...If memory serves me...NO ONE has said much about the duffle bag re: size etc or the golf putter..Wonder WHY Lou didn't show a pic. of the putter and where it was found...(close to what window etc.) I thought they were checking the ornament and angel to see what type/s of knots were used (if any)...(wasn't there string or ribbon on them to attach them to the tree) ......(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Sending out Wolf Whistle" Posted by JR on 20:04:56 5/23/2001 Where the "L" is Edie when you need her - she would remember where the duffle bag was mentioned. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "desk. and panties...." Posted by rose on 22:30:06 5/23/2001 There was a desk taken into evidence. That has always made me wonder what it could have been about it to attract the dectective interest enough to have taken it in with other evidence????? Also they took numerous sets of panties and I wonder if they were a combination of clean and dirty? If so, were the dirty panties put through DNA test? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE List of Forums The opinions expressed are those of the author of those opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Web Host, Webmaster or any Justice Watch member. The opinions and analysis included herein are based from sources believed to be reliable and in good faith but no representation or warranty, expressed or implied, is made as to their accuracy, completeness or correctness. Any copying, redistribution, or retransmission of any of the contents of this service without the express written consent of Justice Watch is expressly prohibited. Users of this site are subject to our House Rules. Questions or problems regarding this bulletin board should be directed to the Webmaster Legal Disclaimer A