Justice Watch Discussion Board "It's Easy to Attack the Press" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... It's Easy to Attack the Press, mame, 09:30:44, 5/20/2000 mame, Sioux, 09:46:37, 5/20/2000, (#1) mame, becky, 09:49:56, 5/20/2000, (#2) sioux, mame, 10:03:20, 5/20/2000, (#3) sioux, Bobby, 11:23:48, 5/20/2000, (#4) Bobby, straykat2, 15:26:39, 5/20/2000, (#18) mame, Sioux, 11:27:19, 5/20/2000, (#5) we must consider , mame, 11:41:41, 5/20/2000, (#6) mame, Sioux, 11:56:59, 5/20/2000, (#7) re: Just us, becky, 12:03:42, 5/20/2000, (#8) DIA & the Govt, straykat2, 15:41:16, 5/20/2000, (#20) But ..., BusDriver, 12:05:41, 5/20/2000, (#9) Bus Driver, mame, 13:07:14, 5/20/2000, (#10) Yes, Mame,, gaiabetsy, 13:24:30, 5/20/2000, (#11) gaiabetsy, mame, 13:46:40, 5/20/2000, (#12) mame,, stryker, 14:00:35, 5/20/2000, (#13) ha!, mame, 14:18:27, 5/20/2000, (#14) Mame , straykat2, 15:12:55, 5/20/2000, (#17) mame, no apology, stryker, 14:38:06, 5/20/2000, (#15) ACCOUNTABILITY & POWER, straykat2, 15:03:57, 5/20/2000, (#16) Please understand..., mame, 15:34:12, 5/20/2000, (#19) Mame, , NOVA, 23:07:35, 5/20/2000, (#24) Bus Driver,, LurkerXIV, 11:15:23, 5/21/2000, (#27) The Voice of Reality..., Paralegal, 15:51:51, 5/20/2000, (#21) MW's..., Pedro, 21:41:02, 5/20/2000, (#22) straycat?, canadiana, 22:12:29, 5/20/2000, (#23) FWIW, Mame, mary99, 00:25:44, 5/21/2000, (#25) straykat2, hareen, 06:08:33, 5/21/2000, (#26) An Explanation, straykat2, 12:46:04, 5/21/2000, (#28) MW & mame, Ron S., 17:25:32, 5/21/2000, (#29) Hey, Ron, darby, 17:30:28, 5/21/2000, (#30) darby, Ron S., 17:36:16, 5/21/2000, (#31) lordy, lordy, mame, 17:37:59, 5/21/2000, (#32) straykat2, darby, 17:38:05, 5/21/2000, (#33) mame, Ron S., 17:50:14, 5/21/2000, (#35) RonS, darby, 17:40:21, 5/21/2000, (#34) RonS, Denver, 18:21:13, 5/21/2000, (#39) Denver, Ron S., 18:55:16, 5/21/2000, (#41) DonRon, mary99, 18:07:36, 5/21/2000, (#37) darby, Ron S., 17:57:14, 5/21/2000, (#36) Evidence to Prove, straykat2, 18:18:41, 5/21/2000, (#38) straykat2, Ron S., 18:43:19, 5/21/2000, (#40) PINE TREES, Tess, 19:35:58, 5/21/2000, (#42) well hell, tess!, mame, 19:45:16, 5/21/2000, (#43) Wavin' the white flag...., Coolteach, 20:33:03, 5/21/2000, (#49) Coolteach, Sioux, 21:36:16, 5/21/2000, (#58) CoolTeach, Ron S., 21:19:47, 5/21/2000, (#57) Tess, Ron S., 20:18:24, 5/21/2000, (#45) The Truth is--, Tess, 20:41:12, 5/21/2000, (#51) rons, short timer, 19:50:50, 5/21/2000, (#44) RonS, you must be masochistic, Venus, 20:40:37, 5/21/2000, (#50) short timer, Ron S., 20:32:42, 5/21/2000, (#48) rons, short timer, 20:43:38, 5/21/2000, (#52) My goodness, RonS , darby, 20:31:45, 5/21/2000, (#47) LOL Short Timer, Denver, 20:27:15, 5/21/2000, (#46) Ron S, hareen, 20:57:31, 5/21/2000, (#54) Let me tell you people something!, Ron S., 20:55:31, 5/21/2000, (#53) RON S, ARE YOU, NOVA, 21:16:16, 5/21/2000, (#56) rons, short timer, 21:05:00, 5/21/2000, (#55) oh dear..., mame, 21:38:07, 5/21/2000, (#59) mame, Pope38, 22:03:47, 5/21/2000, (#60) ................................................................... "It's Easy to Attack the Press" Posted by mame on 09:30:44 5/20/2000 Due to my shock at those who don't seem to understand when a journalist does an interview as a journalistic endeavor...IT IS NOT A PLEA FOR AGREEMENT! I decided it's time to repost a column written by dear old dad back in the sixties. It's a reminder of the role of the press and the misconceptions about that role. IT'S EASY TO ATTACK THE PRESS It is getting more difficult to all people to try to understand what is going on around us. The seemingly simple issues of yesteryear can no longer be categorized easily as"good" or "bad". Yet, in our innocence, we seem to find a need to choose up sides, to pit the good guys against the bad guys in the old Hollywood tradition that always was a myth. When things won't fit easily into "good" or "bad" categories, bewilderment arises. Unfortunately, too many people - pin the issues and the complexities on "bad guys." There are people in the United States who are shrewd enough to realize this. Some of the names popping up in the Watergate situation stand out. And these shrewd ones have exploited the confusion arising out of one of the country's darkest periods in history. Sadly, they will also try to exploit it in the future. They don't have to be Republicans or Democrats. They don't have to be Nixonites or McGovern followers, pro-president, or anti-president, or supreme court or anti Supreme court, or any of the pro's and anti's we get into these days. The shrewdness of exploitation is not confined to conservatives or liberals, or all the shadings of political and philosophical thinking which range in between. It can be the guy working beside you. The lady next door. The question newspaper people frequently hear is, "Are you for us or against us?" A reporter can honestly explain that in writing a news story he is neither for or against; that his job is to write the facts as they appear or have been told to him. Unfortunately this often simplifies the matter for the questioner. The person asking the question adopts the attitude that if you are neither for or against what a report contains, then that person's logic dictates that you must be against it. The person asking, "Are you for us or against us?" may not even realize he is asking a news person to put forth a slanted report favoring a particular project or a position. Barry Goldwater, certainly a man who knows what he thinks, has had a reputation for years for getting so distressed when he reads in print or hears over the air something he has said that he angrily berates the press and frequently claims that he has been misquoted or misinterpreted. This puzzles reporters, many of them who had and still have a personal liking for Goldwater, because they feel they have done everything possible to accurately report his often ambiguous and contradictory statements. President John Kennedy didn't like something reported in the New York Herald Tribune. You were for the Kennedys or against them. So the Tribune, by edict, was not read in the White House library. I also recall attending a White House Press conference in which a reporter for a Midwest newspaper was berated by Kennedy for being "stupid, unthinking regarding the safety of the United States," and not worth the powder to blow him to the place where powder sends people. That was at the time of the Bay of Pigs. That reporter and his question, as it developed in historical perspective, were totally correct. One of the traumas of my own news background is the realization that John Kennedy was given to untruths. Criticism of individual news people, columnists or individual TV commentators and individual newspapers is understandable, and where warranted, is justifiable. The criticism should be specific and responsible. The press has it's bad apples. In newspapers. In radio and television. But the irresponsible, the ax-grinders and the incompetants sooner or later meet their inevitable fate. The public and the great segment of the country's responsible press see to that. The responsible press also insures that there is debate, discussion and disagreement that has reason and which is reasonable. With all its faults there is no really tolerable alternative to a free press. America, without its free press, would be a land in which communication would break down among its people. Never lose sight of the fact that those who would undermine it are trying to do so as a means of conquering truth with their own agreeable interpretation of what they want the people to know. Because the press of America has done its job as the eyes and the ears of people, it is undergoing the most intensive assault since its birth. Press people can, and will, take care of themselves. The press is a handy target. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "mame" Posted by Sioux on 09:46:37 5/20/2000 Oh ! That was beautiful! Your dad sure was a great guy. I confess I don't fully agree with him though, when he says that "there are some bad apples". I think mostly the press is a buch of bad apples and once in a while you have a few "good apples" like him . I think the ideal of "free press" is beautiful but it's proven to be that: An ideal, which sometimes, SOMETIMES can give us a breath of pure air. Free press ceased to exist (formally) at the end of the 19th century,when the bought press practically led this country to war: the Spanish -American war. That's my opinion. Maybe you won't agree with me, but..... Sioux [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "mame" Posted by becky on 09:49:56 5/20/2000 good article, and I want to thank you for your reporting...it's a whole lot better reading than what armchair quarterbacks like myself post. You've been responsible for bringing some things out in the open and done some great reports. I know there are some things you can't discuss..but one thing that I think needs the facts objectively reported on and let the chips fall where they may is...does MW have documentation of being abused by any White family member or relative PRIOR to JBR's murder. I don't doubt her credibility or her sincerity or her importance to the case. But I think we need to know just how much or little she said BEFORE the murder which can be documented or credibly confirmed as not being ideas put into her head by her mother. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "sioux" Posted by mame on 10:03:20 5/20/2000 i partially agree. i think there have been some outstanding renegades writing and reporting in this century. i have little faith in the press as we enter this century. i read an article about it the other day. i'll try to find it and post it. becky, i can't answer your questions. i have never professed to know those answers. if i felt the investigation by the local police was more than cursory...i'd sleep better right now. from what i understand the BPD didn't even take the time to speak with the DA who successfully prosecuted her abuser. the DA was told by the detectives, "we don't have time (while we're in california) to visit with you". my interest in this investigation isn't just about "bridget" and her allegations. it's about a community who needs to know all witnesses and crimes will be investigated to the fullest. how can any citizen feel safe and sleep well at night if they have knowledge of such practices. much of this story isn't about "bridget" or the ramsey murder case. it's about accountibility from our public servants. the ripples of events and investigations truly touch us all. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "sioux" Posted by Bobby on 11:23:48 5/20/2000 "my interest in this investigation isn't just about "bridget" and her allegations. it's about a community who needs to know all witnesses and crimes will be investigated to the fullest. how can any citizen feel safe and sleep well at night if they have knowledge of such practices. much of this story isn't about "bridget" or the ramsey murder case. it's about accountibility from our public servants. the ripples of events and investigations truly touch us all." AMEN and thanks! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Bobby" Posted by straykat2 on 15:26:39 5/20/2000 You have no idea how those words will help me sleep better at night. I am so glad others recognize the importantance of those words. Maybe there is still hope for justice in Colorado after all. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "mame" Posted by Sioux on 11:27:19 5/20/2000 **much of this story isn't about "bridget" or the ramsey murder case. it's about accountibility from our public servants. the ripples of events and investigations truly touch us all.** Agree 100% . Absolutly. Sioux [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "we must consider " Posted by mame on 11:41:41 5/20/2000 the possibility that other scared witnesses with information about this case...the susannah chase murder...rapes...robberies...even a candy bar theft, might never come forward with information. when a police chief calls any witness a "fruitloop" publicly before an investigation begins, does that inspire anyone to come forward? i want to know....need to know...that if my children, or anyone in my community, even the bum in the farmer's ditch up the street, has information necessary to public safety, THEY WILL BE HEARD. they deserve to be shown dignity with the full respect of well trained, fair minded professionals...OUR PAID PUBLIC SERVANTS!!!! until we know answers to these questions, every citizen in this community should be concerned. these same public servants are hired by us to ensure our community is safe and that the bad guys and girls will be sought. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "mame" Posted by Sioux on 11:56:59 5/20/2000 **every citizen in this community should be concerned. ** But, ARE THEY?? You refer to Boulder as "Pleasentville" and for all I know so far it really seams to be. Books have been written, the place has gained international(bad) reputation, and still I don't see marches across town, people screaming at the DA when he leaves his office, any other true sign of public anger. Maybe Alex won't be re- elected, that's why he is not proposing himself for another term.Big Deal! Does that mean that the voting community is more concious or that the whole city is very concious of how THEY LOOK, and Alex is now making them LOOK BAD? ** these same public servants are hired by us to ensure our community is safe and that the bad guys and girls will be sought.** Yes, yes, but many honest police officers were destroyed with the Ramsey case, and again I don't see any public fervor defending them and/OR DEMANDING that they get their jobs back. My point is that although I believe in the saying (this one is a true saying, but I'm translating , so I don't know if you heard of it): "Don't seek for a clean path, clean this one yourself",and obviously, you, mame Almighty do, too, there is point in which you need to question the real possibility of succeeding in this "cleaning it yourself". I say, if Boulder wants to live in Medieval Times, PLEASE CONSIDER MOVING! Sioux [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "re: Just us" Posted by becky on 12:03:42 5/20/2000 ok...everybody else already said it...but I had already cut and pasted before I saw their posts. "much of this story isn't about "bridget" or the ramsey murder case. it's about accountibility from our public servants. the ripples of events and investigations truly touch us all." you got that right! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "DIA & the Govt" Posted by straykat2 on 15:41:16 5/20/2000 >these same public servants >are hired by us to ensure >our community is safe and that >the bad guys and girls will >be sought. These public servants spend much of their time (and our money) protecting THEMSELVES. We need someone with guts to expose them. This includes DAs AND the businesses that support them. Mame and BJ, another clue..... checkout Silverado S&L, MDC Holdings, Michael Feiner, Larry Mizel, Dave Mandarich, and land acquisitions in Adams County and how all of that relates to DIA and the government. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "But ..." Posted by BusDriver on 12:06:38 5/20/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:06:38, 5/20/2000 we can ask the press to confront their interviewees with the tough questions. Just a month or so ago, JW posters (including me) were all over Barbara Walters for not asking tougher qustions of the Ramseys. Sometimes, we may ask for too much. But, that doesn't keep us from wanting it. Personally, I know of two issues that I would have liked to hear Mame ask more questions on: 1. Does Bridgett's therapist confirm her story of having reported sexual abuse from the White family prior to JBR's murder? Does she keep written notes? If so, have they shown these notes to the authorities? 2. Why has Bridgett continued to remain involved in a sexually abusive situation as an adult who has been in therapy for ten years? Did Bridgett really mean to say that the garotting of HER continues to this day? Or, did she mean to say that the garotting of other children continues to this day? If Bridgett is still involved in this, can some expert tell us that this is typical behavior? So, to get back to the press. I believe that I get frustrated with the press when I feel that there are obvious questions that go unasked. I want to hear the answers to these questions because it helps me in determining whether I think that the person being interviewed is credible. I am grateful to Mame for having interviewed Bridgett. I am even grateful to Barbara Walters for having interviewed the Ramseys. Wasn't it Barbara who first asked the Ramseys if they would take a lie detector test?. But, you'll have to excuse me if I just want more. BD edited for typos. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Bus Driver" Posted by mame on 13:07:14 5/20/2000 "Criticism of individual news people, columnists or individual TV commentators and individual newspapers is understandable, and where warranted, is justifiable. The criticism should be specific and responsible." Thank you for an excellent example of criticism, in my honest opinion. I do believe, although am not certain, the questions you cite were posed in the last two interviews. I will check and post the text versions of responses. You also point out one of the problems of "advocacy journalism". While I believe the good can outweigh the bad...an emotional connection is a double edged sword. I have struggled with this personally and professionally. There are few stories covered by passionate journalists that don't cause emotion to erupt. Otherwise you'd have to be living on a street in Pleasantville where few show any emotion over these important issues. A Stepford community! Stepford journalists! However, emotion that is deep and forces agreement is poison. Peter Boyles statement recently that, "This stuff (ritual abuse/sex rings) doesn't happen..." is a prime example of over emotion and a response without thoughtful study. The connection to a source or witness in an emotional way can fuel a passion to make change. It can help a voice be heard. It can call for a public outcry. However, in doing so a journalist can become, even in small instances, less than balanced. I believe I gained more as a woman and a journalist by covering this story, and the plight of this woman. I believe all of you did too. However, it is a very touchy area of journalism. One that has run amouk in the coverage of this case. Some of the examples of "advocacy journalism" in this case were fueled by a bottom line...or an ego needing to be right...a position based on a paid talking head position, etc. These are deep questions to ponder. I have struggled deeply to be fair and appropriate. I'm not sure I have succeeded in all areas. Only through respectful criticism such as yours...not laced with "poor mame" or "litigation threats" can any creative being improve. BusDriver, thank you for showing us an example of fine critcism. I appreciate it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Yes, Mame," Posted by gaiabetsy on 13:24:30 5/20/2000 but what do you have to say about this admonition by MW that her garotting abuse happens to this day? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "gaiabetsy" Posted by mame on 13:46:40 5/20/2000 To my knowledge from statements made by her to me and other journalists and investigators. The long term physical abuse stopped the day she got on the plane to leave her home and family. Her comment, "To this day..." was a figure of speech indicating a "recent" time, in an ALLEGED, several decade pattern of generational abuse. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "mame," Posted by stryker on 14:00:35 5/20/2000 your dad did a fine piece of writing there, well worth repeating. my only question: just HOW did he know about watergate back in the sixties? (sorry-i couldn't help myself) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "ha!" Posted by mame on 14:18:27 5/20/2000 talk about inaccurate reporting! caught me, stryker! i posted this here a few months ago and had the dates, and time correct. since i'm typing and archiving these old newsprint columns my saved version did not have the date. please forgive me...this was obviously written in the seventies...after 1972. since his columns span a thirty year time frame...i forget at times. my sincere apologies... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Mame " Posted by straykat2 on 15:12:55 5/20/2000 Your Dad was a wise man and you are a chip off the old block, IMO. Keep digging for the truth regardless of where it takes you or who tries to throw you off track. The corruption in the judicial system of Colorado may finally be exposed if Mame and BJ dig a little deeper. A clue for Mame and BJ..... keep hounding Silverman. He is closer to the "truth" than even he may know. Just an aside, Fleet White is an innocent victim. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "mame, no apology" Posted by stryker on 14:38:06 5/20/2000 please! i thought it was amusing and was going to accuse your dad of being not only an excellent journalist but a psychic as well! but i was worried (being new here) that my twisted sense of humor might be misinterpreted... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "ACCOUNTABILITY & POWER" Posted by straykat2 on 15:21:30 5/20/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:21:30, 5/20/2000 8. "re: Just us" Posted by becky on 12:03:42 5/20/2000 "much of this story isn't about "bridget" or the ramsey murder case. it's about accountibility from our public servants. the ripples of events and investigations truly touch us all." Thank you for posting those simple words that condense this entire case. Edited to indicate thanks to all of those that posted those words, not just Becky. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Please understand..." Posted by mame on 15:34:12 5/20/2000 I'm not trying to diminish the importance of "Bridget" and her quest. I would never do that. I am still nowhere near convinced that a full and complete investigation was done. If that had been proven much of the questions that remain would be moot by the critical thinkers here, and elsewhere. Maybe I should have said that MY personal passion in this story, and the Ramsey Murder is fueled by a lack of responsible journalism who holds true to being a conscious of a community first and foremost [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Mame, " Posted by NOVA on 23:07:35 5/20/2000 I just want to let you know how much I admire your work with MW on a personal and professional level. I know of only one other reporter from Northern California who thinks like you do. This reporter is not afraid to go up against the "good old boys and gals" if she believes that justice is not being served. As for MW's claims of being abused up until the time of her flight to Denver, this is not unusual for long-term victims of incest and sexual exploitation. It is a very effective means of controlling the victim. The perpetrator (or perpetrators) know just what buttons to push and the victim is programmed to return. It doesn't matter that the abused child is now an adult. Many perpetrators get a thrill from the control and power that they still have over their victims years later. As a woman's advocate, I once had a client who came to the crisis center to escape from her father who had been molesting her since she was five-years-old. When I met her, she was a young adult and her father, a respected school teacher, was still demanding that they "meet" at least two or three times a year so that he could continue her "education." There are some people who would say "Why the hell didn't she leave and have the guy arrested?" It's not that simple. Think about it. It's her father whom she has relied on for her survival all of these years. Breaking away is not always clean, nor will the situation always end with the survivor receiving the sympathy, help, and justice that they deserve. I pray that MW finds safety and justice. Because of you, your companions, this forum, MW's therapist and her advocates, I know that MW has found some steady ground from which she will be able to map out her future--whatever that may be. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Bus Driver," Posted by LurkerXIV on 11:15:23 5/21/2000 You are one smart cookie! My questions are the same as yours. There are so many inconsistencies in MW's story. And I cannot simply discount the BPD when they say they have investigated her claims thoroughly and find no merit in them. BPD has come a long way since the JonBenet murder. The eyes of the world have been on them for nearly four years now, and I believe this scrutiny has made them a better, more efficient department. At the same time, I appreciate mame's zeal for cutting to the heart of the matter, and for bringing us her timely and interesting interviews of the various players in the case. Kudos again to mame, BJ, and ToppCat for bringing us a different perspective on many aspects of the case. I don't think truth would prevail if we had to depend on the lamestream media for all our information. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "The Voice of Reality..." Posted by Paralegal on 15:51:51 5/20/2000 speaks through mame, IMHO. You have gone above and beyond the call of journalistic duty in presenting this story and the brave lady behind it, mame, and should not feel a need to defend yourself in any way. Anyone who truly believes this sort of thing does not happen in contemporary society needs only to volunteer some time at the local crisis hotline, shelter or outreach. For those of us who do know, "raping" a whistleblower of her sanity and credibility is the best line of defense, and the greatest obstacle for victims to overcome. And those who stand in advocacy with them also fall under the "umbrella of fruitloopedness". What I cannot understand is the shock of some at the reaction of BPD to this witness. These are the same cops who botched the crime scene, allowed AH to hamstring the entire investigation and GJ, and are now intent on maintaining a narrow minded, gullible and naive whodunit theory of their own. What could we expect from this bunch? My concern at this point is that MW is safe, and that the FBI will give this situation the investigation it merits-thorough, precise and exhaustive. I also believe that this is just the tip of the iceberg and that the elusive connection to the Ramsey case is just on the horizon. I have waited 3 1/2 years for this aspect of the case to come forward marvelling at the evidence suggesting such a crime scene scenario, and have no doubt it will continue its momentum to the resolution we are all looking for in this case. And I have no doubt mame will be the one to continue bringing it to us with the objectivity and commitment I've witnessed in her all along. Keep up the good work, mame, there are those of us out here who are gratefully depending on your expertise. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "MW's..." Posted by Pedro on 21:41:02 5/20/2000 ..case as abused woman deserve all our respect, MW's case regarding JBR murder has been look at by the authorities and they found it no related to this case. MW deserve an investigation in to her alleged abused as it has been done in several ocasions for the last 10 years finding her allegations non true or non conclusive. Mame we all have interest in MW's case by herself, don't need to keep trying with the JBR case, unless you know something we don't, in that case you should contact the authorities. Why should the BPD interview the DA who prosecute her abuser more than 20 years ago? again, the CA authorities had already stated that MW acusations were found baseless. We must help MW in her seek for justice in her own case, is more than enough considering the serious abuse she has been suffering, as any victim of abuse has all my support and understanding, even if her allegations aren't true at all, she needs help and we must support her at that level too. Pedro/MidWest [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "straycat?" Posted by canadiana on 22:12:29 5/20/2000 above you stated...."The corruption in the judicial system of Colorado may finally be exposed if Mame and BJ dig a little deeper. A clue for Mame and BJ..... keep hounding Silverman. He is closer to the "truth" than even he may know. Just an aside, Fleet White is an innocent victim." PLEASE...how do you know this? Thanks. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "FWIW, Mame" Posted by mary99 on 00:25:44 5/21/2000 If this case is ever solved, i know you will have played a huge part in it. To those who doubt MW and her allegations, I can only say, time will tell. I think her testimony makes a profound impact and ties all the loose ends together. For those who don't see it that way, that's OK. I just hope the FBI can put it together and get the job done right. If they don't, thank God for you, Mame, I know you won't stop until MW has received some measure of justice. I believe the Witness's allegations received less than a full and complete investigation by the BPD. So while some will say that she was investigated and they found no connection, I feel quite the opposite. Mame is right: there is something rotten in Boulder, and the police aren't doing their job. Nobody should have to wonder if they will be treated fairly if they come forward with as much case-related evidence as MW did. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "straykat2" Posted by hareen on 06:08:33 5/21/2000 I, too, am intrigued with your above post. I notice that on another thread you say the link to Fleet White's "Letter to the People" is the key to the mystery. I'm more than wondering who you are ... hmmmmm ... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "An Explanation" Posted by straykat2 on 12:46:04 5/21/2000 How should I word this... I have been directly and indirectly involved with the people I have mentioned. Mame and Chris know a bit about my background although they may have forgotten. It is better that I not reveal my relationship or circumstances involving the people I have mentioned. I don't mean to be overly mysterious. I just want to remain safe and free of threats. I have seen how the Colorado legal system operates and it is scarey. BTW, I have never had legal problems and I am not victim of sexual abuse. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "MW & mame" Posted by Ron S. on 17:25:32 5/21/2000 IMO MW is one out of a million of women who have been abuse and continue to be sexually abused to this day. What has MW done to further the cause of women who have been sexually abused? Nothing! The only thing I can see that has come out of this whole scenarion is, "MW has gained a whole lot of attention, and so has mame." It appears that the only people who have any real interest in MW is mame and JW posters. That tells me nothing! What has happened to JonBenet? Has this case changed from justice for JonBenet to lets just sit around and talk chit regarding MW. I have a suggestion, why don't we just change the forum to MW discussion and make mame the moderator. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Hey, Ron" Posted by darby on 17:30:28 5/21/2000 What will you say if MW has documentation which was recorded prior to the murder which names the Whites as abusers who participated in garroting and sexual abuse episodes with her as a child? Answer this question, please. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "darby" Posted by Ron S. on 17:36:16 5/21/2000 Like we say in Missouri, "show me." If you have information to backup your above post, I would love to see it. I'm sure there's others who feel the same way. Please share it with us! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "lordy, lordy" Posted by mame on 17:37:59 5/21/2000 look what the cat dragged in! that deserves another, "holy baseball bats!" it's the shrink who shrunk... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "straykat2" Posted by darby on 17:38:05 5/21/2000 Can you at least tell us how you know FW is an innocent victim? This is really important. I keep thinking that MW's documentation prior to the murder tells us otherwise. At least tell us that much. If FW is innocent of wrongdoing, we need to know this, and quickly. It's unfair to FW to keep this information to yourself. Please tell us. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "mame" Posted by Ron S. on 17:50:14 5/21/2000 You can say what ever you want, I will not be impressed and have never been impressed with your "so-called journalism!" You may have a lot of posters sold here on JW, I'm not buying it, nor am I buying your favorite topic "MW." Man talking about riding a good horse to death, you are really taking this one to the glue factory. JMHO To all the women out there who have nothing else to do but gossip, give me your best shot! As I see it, all this MW chit is nothing but gossip! I find that in poor taste. If this is the best you can do for a story mame, you must be in bad need for a story. How long has this been going on now? We still have nothing but MW and mame! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "RonS" Posted by darby on 17:40:21 5/21/2000 I don't have it. But I still would like to hear your answer to the hypothetical. Can you please give me your answer--? What would you think if MW brought such documentation with her? Would you then believe that there could be a connection? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "RonS" Posted by Denver on 18:21:13 5/21/2000 "It appears that the only people who have any real interest in MW is mame and JW posters." Your statement shows how ignorant you are. You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. And what is going on is confidential, so don't ask for proof. I eagerly await the day you have to eat your sorry posts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Denver" Posted by Ron S. on 18:55:16 5/21/2000 Talk about being ignorant you have to take the cake! Anyone who would buy MW's story without any real evidence, has to be totally ignorant. Appears to me you and a bunch of others have bought this chit "hook line and sinker." I never buy anything unless I check out the goods! There's a lot of good salesmen/women in this world and a sucker to be had everyday. If you choose to be a sucker, that's your business. Don't expect me to be one. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "DonRon" Posted by mary99 on 18:07:36 5/21/2000 Are you related to FW by any chance? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "darby" Posted by Ron S. on 17:57:14 5/21/2000 If the documentation provided by MW could be backed up by witnesses and proven in a court of law, and has direct influence on the death of JonBenet Ramsey. I will kiss every pine tree in the whole state of Alabama. What does that tell you! Does that answer your question? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Evidence to Prove" Posted by straykat2 on 18:18:41 5/21/2000 Ron, you sound like a very angry person. Have you considered therapy for this problem? Darby, I personally do not have the evidence to prove that FW is innocent. Sorry I can't provide more information. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "straykat2" Posted by Ron S. on 18:47:20 5/21/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:47:20, 5/21/2000 I have been accustomed to pshychological check ups on a regular basis over the years, it was something that was expected in my field. However, you made a damn good point. It might be a good idea for some of the posters on this forum to have a check up themselves. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "PINE TREES" Posted by Tess on 19:35:58 5/21/2000 I don't know much about MW but I worked in your field for years---and from what I've read --- if I were you I'd start kissing those trees. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "well hell, tess!" Posted by mame on 19:45:16 5/21/2000 what brought you down off "huckleberry hill"??? no yankee game tonight? you were one helluva psychiatric registered nurse! it's always a pleasure to see you here. won't be long and the tribe and your little "bad girl" news gatherin' daughter will be sitting right there on that "huckleberry hill" with you eatin' strawberry shortcake! i can't wait. i'm inviting all the east coast JW clan to your house for a big ol' party. so, get ready... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Wavin' the white flag...." Posted by Coolteach on 20:33:03 5/21/2000 Maybe a word of wisdom is in order. Maybe a compromise can be made here. Both sides of this argument have a point. Those of you who believe that MW is connected to this murder have a slight chance of being right. Certainly Mame did a good thing by housing her and befriending her. Anyone who helps anyone who is sexually abused is doing a good thing. But I can see Ron's side of it to. He feels that the focus on the Ramsey's and discussing the murder has gotten off task by focusing in so long on MW. Those of you who live right there have to also understand those of us who don't. We need your help in understanding rather than being kept out of the loop. We are equally as interested, only in some ways, we are handicapped by our dependency on our t.v. stations and newspapers saying something about this case, which rarely they do. I, for one, also did not know what in the heck was going on with the criticism of Chris. I think this is a marvelous forum, the third one that I've been on since the beginning of this case, and by far the best. I don't understand how anyone could not love her. So there are days when the conversation goes off in a direction, that I would love to join in, but it's hard to do, when the talk is about something that has to do with things that are going on there in Boulder and we don't get to hear about it. I know that Ron is a respected psychologist with a great heart for abused children and women who have been abused. I've known him from the very first forum that wrote about this case. He sounds kind of rough, but he really cares about this case, and I think there may be wisdom in his feeling that let's wait until we see the proof before we go off on tangents. I can also understand that people have gotten on the bandwagon behind MW. Still, in work I have done with abused women, I have seen some pretty strange stories come out, told in the most convincing ways. I saw one woman who claimed she had demons go into great detail about witchcraft ceremonies and rituals. In the end, it turned out that she had a very vivid imagination, coupled with a lot of reading of novels, along with a keen mind for detail, and she tended to fall in love with whomever counseled her and showed her attention. She kept a lot of us on pins and needles for a long time trying to help her, but she was not sincerely seeking help. Not that this is the case here,don't read that into what I am saying. All I am saying is that some of the best pyschiatrists and pyschologists and well-meaning counselors have been led on wild goose chases by attention deprived people. There are lots of ways that abuse can trigger some pretty weird behaviors. Well, this may be pretty simplistic, but I think you guys are playing on the same team and it is time to shake hands and get back to the game. A common trick of an enemy is to get all the soldiers in a company to fight each other. That way, the enemy gets away. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "Coolteach" Posted by Sioux on 21:36:16 5/21/2000 **I know that Ron is a respected psychologist with a great heart for abused children and women who have been abused. I've known him from the very first forum that wrote about this case. ** I have no idea who are you or who is Ron S., but he sounds very much like a bully to me. He was probably an abused kid himself for what it transpires in his Tazmanian devilish attitude. As for "respected " psychologist, I bet he didn't gain that respect showing his bad upbringing through his awful manners. You, on the other hand, are like a prince (princess?)defending the undefendable with this goon. **He sounds kind of rough, but he really cares about this case,** We all do, darling, we just don't back it up being insultive. ** and I think there may be wisdom in his feeling that let's wait until we see the proof before we go off on tangents.** But that has been exactly my opinion! What a coincidence! Now tell your friend to go back to kindergarden to learn that list of: "the ten best things I need to live civily I learned them in kindergarden", or whatever is called. Sioux [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "CoolTeach" Posted by Ron S. on 21:19:47 5/21/2000 Thank you, I have not been myself of late. Guess maybe I should just leave this thing alone. Like you I have followed this case for a long time and find it hard to let go. I think it may be time to call it a day, I have too many other serious problems to deal with. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "Tess" Posted by Ron S. on 20:18:24 5/21/2000 Psychiatric nurse! What does that represent? Is somone trying to imply that you are more knowledgeable/experienced than me? That does not surprise me, some people on this forum seem to believe that a dentist is a brain surgeon. That is understandable given the intellect of some people. I can handle the pine trees, can you handle the truth? You of all people should be interested in that subject. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "The Truth is--" Posted by Tess on 20:41:12 5/21/2000 I worked with the likes of you for years---no compassion---no belief in what a patient has to say---pick up your check---and the patient be damned---It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see what you feel about those who hurt and have been hurt---I did find a few Drs who listened---and waited---for months and were very kind and gentle ----what happened to you along the way?? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Tess ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "rons" Posted by short timer on 19:50:50 5/21/2000 I mostly lurk but I had to tell you ron that if you have been passing psychological tests over the years then you've been cheating. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "RonS, you must be masochistic" Posted by Venus on 20:40:37 5/21/2000 to keep returning to a forum and posts that make you this emotional. When I see stuff here that makes me recoil, I just withdraw from the forum for awhile and let myself and the topic cool down. I suggest you do the same. You are calling more attention to yourself and your issues than to the issues you rail against here. You calling the rest of us nuts doesn't make it so. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "short timer" Posted by Ron S. on 20:32:42 5/21/2000 What do you know about psychological test? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "rons" Posted by short timer on 20:43:38 5/21/2000 Plenty. What do you know about civility? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "My goodness, RonS " Posted by darby on 20:31:45 5/21/2000 Your anger is astounding. Have you no dignity? Aren't you a "Burke Did It" theorist? Like Spade? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "LOL Short Timer" Posted by Denver on 20:27:15 5/21/2000 RonS, you seriously do need to look at some anger therapy. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "Ron S" Posted by hareen on 20:57:31 5/21/2000 You asked Tess if she was more knowledgable than you. If you'd take a little time to read between the lines here, you might find out the answer is "yes". [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "Let me tell you people something!" Posted by Ron S. on 20:55:31 5/21/2000 Right now I'm fighting for my life, and I really don't give a jack shit what you think of me. Talk about anger, yes I angry! Want to know why? I'll leave that up to you. I've been following this case from the very beginning and have lost some really dear friends in the process. I'm just really tired of all the bull shit with MW, Mame and everything else that appears to have nothing to do with the death of JonBenet Ramsey. You have your opinion and I have mine. If you choose to jump on this MW bandwagon, that is your choice. One damn thing for sure we cannot change other people, places or things. That is, unless they want to change! You will do and say what you want! Please do not deprive me of the same freedom. If you don't like what I have to say, just scroll right on by. I will try and do the same in the future. Ron S. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "RON S, ARE YOU" Posted by NOVA on 21:16:16 5/21/2000 TALKIN TO ME?!!! ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME?!!! You post: "Let me tell you people something!" LOL. Either you are demented or get a secret thrill out of insulting folks who have every right to expound, debate, and research various theories within this forum. Say, buddy, why don't you go out and start up a new JonBenet discussion board that is MW free. C'mon, you can do it. It may save your life. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "rons" Posted by short timer on 21:05:00 5/21/2000 I would believe you are fighting for your life if you would produce some witnesses and a little documentation. Other than that, it sounds like you are having a pity party like you accuse MW of having. If you want to talk case, why don't you drag yourself to another thread or better yet start one on topic. It's so much easier than causing a big stink. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "oh dear..." Posted by mame on 21:38:07 5/21/2000 i hate it when anyone says "you people"...oh tess, dear old dad hated that term more than any other. it's really an "us" and "them" expression. let's get back to sleuthin'... ron, i really wish you had an open mind to join in. we could use another professional thoughtfully working this with us... maybe someday you will... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "mame" Posted by Pope38 on 22:03:47 5/21/2000 thank-you for the interviews with the MW. You and Chris are doing a great service in the fight for justice for JonBenet. Ron S., I mean no disrespect with these thoughts of you. You are in the fight for your life, and you are angry and you cannot change people, places or things. I remember reading a big book that mentions these feelings. I too fought a fight for my life 18 years ago reading a big book. If I am off base I am sorry. Just a well meant acknowledgement of the fight you may be waging. I hope I don't hate myself in the morning for this post. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]