Justice Watch Discussion Board "Everyone lets post WHAT the ONE thing is that stands out the MOST to you" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Everyone lets post WHAT the ONE thing is that stands out the MOST to you, Fernandina, 16:36:29, 5/22/2000 Fernandina, before then even, Edie Pratt, 16:58:56, 5/22/2000, (#1) Repeat after me, DrTee, 17:06:05, 5/22/2000, (#2) The long and rambling, momo, 17:20:09, 5/22/2000, (#4) Fascinating, Fernandina, 17:11:45, 5/23/2000, (#50) it's the note, the note, the note, stryker, 17:20:27, 5/22/2000, (#5) i agree, toots, 15:17:35, 5/23/2000, (#49) Wow, Fernandina, 17:13:46, 5/23/2000, (#51) Yeah Man!, tall-p, 13:11:45, 5/25/2000, (#62) Friends on Demand!, Fernandina, 17:11:51, 5/22/2000, (#3) Pick ONE?, AutumnBorn, 17:23:21, 5/22/2000, (#6) Gosh there are so many , momo, 17:29:48, 5/22/2000, (#7) All of the above, pybird, 17:34:10, 5/22/2000, (#8) Pybird , momo, 17:41:25, 5/22/2000, (#10) oh yeah, that reminds me, Edie Pratt, 17:38:22, 5/22/2000, (#9) Two thoughts, Holly, 17:44:18, 5/22/2000, (#11) The 911 tape, South, 17:50:39, 5/22/2000, (#12) very creepy, stryker, 17:56:56, 5/22/2000, (#13) Only ONE?!!, Househazard, 18:04:51, 5/22/2000, (#14) take it further, Holly, Edie Pratt, 18:05:13, 5/22/2000, (#15) So Many things, Shamrockpati, 18:44:37, 5/22/2000, (#16) Not only weird --, Holly, 18:48:21, 5/22/2000, (#17) My BS meter went off the dial, Country Girl, 19:29:54, 5/22/2000, (#18) Their Demeanor, Starling, 19:34:19, 5/22/2000, (#19) WHoa, eedayspa, 18:09:03, 6/06/2000, (#79) first suspicions, et, 21:09:46, 5/22/2000, (#21) Only ONE thing?, WitchyWoman, 20:53:31, 5/22/2000, (#20) Yup, Fernandina, 17:32:26, 5/23/2000, (#53) Tough to understand, frankg, 21:22:19, 5/22/2000, (#25) What Did it for me, sabrina, 21:15:40, 5/22/2000, (#23) just to add to the list, Kip, 21:14:41, 5/22/2000, (#22) Edie........ , starry, 21:47:43, 5/22/2000, (#30) He said, Fernandina, 17:22:27, 5/23/2000, (#52) The ransom note, Ryder, 21:21:11, 5/22/2000, (#24) Edie Pratt #1, Ryder, 21:26:00, 5/22/2000, (#26) The Search for JonBenet, Sharon, 21:35:15, 5/22/2000, (#28) The body, chebrock, 21:33:01, 5/22/2000, (#27) There are so many,, Ev, 21:41:40, 5/22/2000, (#29) One:, Phantom, 22:01:06, 5/22/2000, (#31) WOW Phantom!, canadiana, 22:06:32, 5/22/2000, (#32) Frank's holo page.., tall-p, 13:28:33, 5/25/2000, (#63) Stryker and CG said it..., Greeality, 22:08:24, 5/22/2000, (#33) I would say, lake, 22:16:27, 5/22/2000, (#34) I agree with Ev, dustii, 23:27:06, 5/22/2000, (#35) All of the above and, Seashell, 00:48:36, 5/23/2000, (#36) so many indications of guilt, pat, 06:03:34, 5/23/2000, (#38) You are so right!!!, tall-p, 13:35:31, 5/25/2000, (#65) the clothes, dixie, 05:59:20, 5/23/2000, (#37) Same clothes on because, Fernandina, 16:35:31, 5/25/2000, (#67) I always found it odd, Fernandina, 17:45:00, 5/23/2000, (#54) my biggest concern, ericasf, 06:31:31, 5/23/2000, (#39) The guilty factor.., Aurora, 08:12:25, 5/23/2000, (#40) The whole morning!!, nana2, 08:53:27, 5/23/2000, (#42) Their bizarre actions, Fernandina, 16:42:33, 5/24/2000, (#56) No intruder, Luvsa Mystery, 08:52:39, 5/23/2000, (#41) Hiding, IndyAnna, 09:21:11, 5/23/2000, (#43) Anotherone, momo, 09:33:45, 5/23/2000, (#44) The sound of silence;, Waiting, 09:58:43, 5/23/2000, (#45) Patsy's behavior, gaiabetsy, 11:27:53, 5/23/2000, (#46) Burke, tx_sunshine, 11:35:27, 5/23/2000, (#48) It makes alot of sense, chebrock, 11:30:26, 5/23/2000, (#47) One thing.., Nandee, 18:00:23, 5/23/2000, (#55) ONE???, Seeker, 17:12:44, 5/24/2000, (#57) Showerless , Edie Pratt, 12:14:52, 5/25/2000, (#58) Edie, vic, 12:37:46, 5/25/2000, (#59) Yes, Vic,, gaiabetsy, 13:04:37, 5/25/2000, (#60) Vic, Edie Pratt, 13:10:04, 5/25/2000, (#61) Edie, , gaiabetsy, 13:31:21, 5/25/2000, (#64) wal-mart?, stryker, 16:34:06, 5/25/2000, (#66) The Red Turtleneck ..., mandarin, 23:36:38, 5/25/2000, (#68) They Did Get Burke Up - That's the biggest for me, CommonSense, 03:11:12, 5/26/2000, (#69) Commonsense-you're right, Fernandina, 18:20:42, 6/03/2000, (#70) A brick wall between them, Fernandina, 17:42:36, 6/05/2000, (#71) I wrote a list, Fernandina, 17:47:19, 6/05/2000, (#72) Burke, v_p, 19:01:27, 6/05/2000, (#73) re: Burke, Greeality, 21:44:07, 6/05/2000, (#74) identity crisis, pinker, 10:36:22, 6/06/2000, (#75) The note and the previous vaginal trauma, cstuart, 13:00:13, 6/06/2000, (#76) Mandarin, sebastian, 14:15:51, 6/06/2000, (#77) Sabastan, Luvsa Mystery, 14:27:47, 6/06/2000, (#78) The one thing that stands out the most..., ace21214, 18:48:45, 6/06/2000, (#80) I agree with you-, Fernandina, 15:06:30, 6/11/2000, (#81) ................................................................... "Everyone lets post WHAT the ONE thing is that stands out the MOST to you" Posted by Fernandina on 16:36:29 5/22/2000 There are so many wise & KNowledgeable posters here-leats use this resource nad post what the one outstanding fact about the case is for you that you think is the most bizarre-telltale -or just odd to you . "My first and still steadfast noteworthy impression I got is from the R's two news conferences- Their body language was tell -all to me. The were stiff, apart from one another, and showed no shared emotion. Something was terribly wrong there then.(Now we know they are trying to correct this impression in recent PR) [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Fernandina ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Fernandina, before then even" Posted by Edie Pratt on 16:58:56 5/22/2000 the first I heard of all the house guests that morning. WHO thinks to call anyone but the police or FBI? Because now, after all this time,I'm wondering where ARE all these friends of theirs? It could be explained that the R's are/were highly social creatures, that friends were at the R's house more than their own. But, that theory sort of sours when you have a listen to John. To hear him tell it, the qualification for friendship is a very deep matter. Others are merely acquaintences, ie. the Stines. What group, I wonder, was called to the White house the day Daphne White went missing? The Ramseys are the only ones I heard about. This fact, along with later reports of JR's cordiality and jokeing, led me to the conclusion that JR took more than a pill the night before, and that Patsy is a patsy. If a photographer is enough to send JR into a rage upon a picnic table, then, why so cheerful in the face of disaster? And, lastly,WHERE DID JR THINK JB WAS??? If he could search and find a body at 10AM, or 1PM, WHY couldn't he locate the body at 6AM? OK, that's all now:-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Repeat after me" Posted by DrTee on 17:06:05 5/22/2000 The 911 call on the 23rd. I can't believe how that has been dismissed by everyone--even the police--as nothing. Thomas's book revealed that the cops who came to the house were told it was nothing THROUGH THE INTERCOM! And even Thomas doesn't find this hinky? False 911 calls are common, but how common is it for a person to be murdered in the house two days later? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "The long and rambling" Posted by momo on 17:21:44 5/22/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 17:21:44, 5/22/2000 War and Peace of ransom notes is what was the obvious piece of evidence that told me that this was an inside accident/murder/coverup. I think it is the most important piece of evidence at the crime scene. And if you'll let me have two things that stand out the most I would say the other is the lawyering up and the failure over and over to interview and talk to the police. There was a secrecy from the beginning that has always made me feel that the Rams were directly involved in the murder of JonBenet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Fascinating" Posted by Fernandina on 17:11:45 5/23/2000 Oh I love this -thank you all for posting your answers. This balances things - stabalizes evidence, and shows what the outstanding oddities are. Of course the R camp will quickly have logical expanations for all of this in their next book sequel "How YOU can beat the system -with -The Millionare Next Door. A Marketing approach for getting away with Murder" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Fernandina ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "it's the note, the note, the note" Posted by stryker on 17:23:58 5/22/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 17:23:58, 5/22/2000 and everything surrounding it. what parents in their right minds wouldn't pick that thing up, turn it over, see if there's anything written on the reverse, have it in hand when calling 911...if it had been me, my fingerprints would have been all over it, it would have been rumpled from OVER-handling, and probably would have been smeared from tears, rage, sweaty hands. you know, some people say you don't KNOW how you'll react in a certain set of circumstances, and it's not fair to judge the ramsey's because they didn't react the same as you might. the problem with this statement is this: not ONE thing they have done in three+ years nor one thing they've SAID is a normal reaction. it isn't just one thing here and there. it's EVERYTHING. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "i agree" Posted by toots on 15:17:35 5/23/2000 i definately agree with you....if that were me...i would have picked that note up immediately and read it......now i probably missed something but do the ramseys actually say they didn't touch that note??? that is truely unbelieveable!!!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Wow" Posted by Fernandina on 17:13:46 5/23/2000 YOu know -I never thought of that! There would be their fingerprints all over the letter [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Fernandina ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "Yeah Man!" Posted by tall-p on 13:11:45 5/25/2000 The way the Ramseys didn't hasndle the note, and search it for clues IS the hurdle I can't get over. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Friends on Demand!" Posted by Fernandina on 17:11:51 5/22/2000 Thanks so much for your reply-I find this so fascinating to hear your opinion - and YES the friends there in a heartbeat is strange. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Fernandina ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Pick ONE?" Posted by AutumnBorn on 17:23:21 5/22/2000 So hard...the kidnapper leaving the victim behind or a pedophile who takes the time to molest a kid in their own home with parents sleeping nearby. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Gosh there are so many " Posted by momo on 17:29:48 5/22/2000 things that come to mind. I had to post again. Another one would be the fact that John was so bent on going to Georgia 30 minutes after the body was found. I think he intended on taking JonBenet's body with them. And his reason for wanting to leave was because their family was in Georgia. Give me a break. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "All of the above" Posted by pybird on 17:34:10 5/22/2000 But the one thing that has bothered me from the beginning is the absolute absence of grief. Not once have they appeared to be grieving for JB. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Pybird " Posted by momo on 17:41:25 5/22/2000 you made me think of another one I let slip my feable mind. The absence of ANGER at someone committing such a terrible murder against their child. Their attempts at trying to be angry are pitiful at best. I'd still be angry as hell and screaming at the top of my lungs for justice. The Ramseys are pathetic. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "oh yeah, that reminds me" Posted by Edie Pratt on 17:38:22 5/22/2000 JR casually reading his mail after his long disappearance. So what? So who was going to read his mail had he gone on his scheduled trip to Charlevoix? He clearly wasn't looking for something from the kidnapper, as he didn't bat an eyelash when at 10AM the call never came. He doesn't read so well, does he? Seems he doesn't take direction very well, either. If JR had only just discovered JB in the basement,at 10, then all I gotta say is that guy is one cold fish. An innocent man, nomatter his military training, etc., would fall to pieces at that sort of discovery. This guy read his mail. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Two thoughts" Posted by Holly on 17:44:18 5/22/2000 Who carries a stiff, as a board, decomposing child up a flight of stairs, carresses her, hugs her, inhales her, then looks directly at the cop and asks, "Is she dead?" And who could touch the cold foot of a stiff as a board, decomposing, beaten and strangled child, then bound up the stairs, streak toward the nearest phone, while yelling, "Someone call 911? As if it were not plainly obvious to these creeps JB had been dead for an entire day. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "The 911 tape" Posted by South on 17:02:28 5/23/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 17:02:28, 5/23/2000 Why was JR so angry/hostile? Why didn't HE make the call? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "very creepy" Posted by stryker on 17:56:56 5/22/2000 yes, the description of JR carrying JBR upstairs is one of the creepiest scenes i can imagine. can you even visualize doing this? i can't. stephen king couldn't have written that scene better. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Only ONE?!!" Posted by Househazard on 18:04:51 5/22/2000 I think it would be easier to ask what the one thing they did that isn't suspect. LOL I would say (aside from the 26th), the thing that stands out is Patsy's sister taking so much from the house and the police not only letting her, but not documenting it. Or did they? Oh wait... dang this is hard!! The other thing (sorry) is the fact that Patsy and John don't know what anything about the case. Like if Burke was awake or if they owned the flashlight or touched the note or if it was a pedophile that doesn't sexually abuse..... I could go on, but I'm already over my ONE thing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "take it further, Holly" Posted by Edie Pratt on 18:05:13 5/22/2000 what idiot asks "is she dead?", then covers the body with a throw? He wasn't worried about Patsy seeing the body, why was it so important for him to step over Arndt to warm a cold corpse? He seemed obsessed with the fact that it was cold. He mentions how cold out it was, then mentions the cold basement, then covers the cold child. Weird. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "So Many things" Posted by Shamrockpati on 18:46:12 5/22/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:46:12, 5/22/2000 Well the CNN interview...which stood out in my mind....reminded me of Susan Smith and OJ. Also hearing that they had friends in the house BEFORE THE POLICE.....COME ON. Lack of real cooperation, absense of real grief and real tears...the self absorbed attitude of the whole Boulder scene.....Alex Hunter and his hot tib meetings and is wimp record of pleaing every case in Boulder......it goes on and on and on...if someone proposed this as a TV movie or a book...it wouldn't pass the giggle test, truth is indeed stranger than fiction. If you all have HBO catch "The 5th Juror" it's a one woman show with one of the OJ civil jurors and it's compelling.....and frightening and sad and sick...be prepared with barf bag for they show photos of the bodies of Nicole and Ron. After seeing them you will get po'd all over again at that butcher. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Not only weird --" Posted by Holly on 18:48:21 5/22/2000 suspicious. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "My BS meter went off the dial" Posted by Country Girl on 19:29:54 5/22/2000 First: When I heard that Patsy jumped over the three page ransom note on her way down a spiral staircase at 5-something in the morning ... and she didn't even know what the papers were. I have yet to hear anyone ask her WHY? Second: When I heard they didn't wake Burke to see if he heard or saw anything, and left him upstairs in bed until 7am. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Their Demeanor" Posted by Starling on 20:12:46 5/22/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 20:12:46, 5/22/2000 Patsy Ramsey's Demeanor from when the call to 911 was placed until she was asked to leave her home, by detectives when it was officially declared a crime scene. 911 call - Frantic "Send help! Send help!" Scared "Help me Jesus! Help me Jesus!" 1st responding officer, Rick French is met by Patsy Ramsey at the door. She is distraught, but her hair if fixed and makeup is on her face. Reichenbach arrives and hears Patsy telling French that she had went to JonBenet's room to awake her at 5:45 a.m. and JonBenet wasn't in her room. She went down the spiral stairs where she found the ransom note, at that time. As other officers arrived at the home, they noticed Patsy had dissolved into an emotional mess. She lay alone on the floor of a nearby room, hugging pillows, clutching a crucifix -wailing. 2 hours and 20 minutes after the 911 call first came in, Detective Linda Arndt arrives and it gives Officer French his first chance to go look through the lower levels of the house. Seeing the cellar door latched from the outside, he realized a kidnapper could not go through the door and relatch it from within the room. He dismisses that route as an exit point for a kidnapper and returns upstairs, where Patsy Ramsey has managed to compose herself enough to be sitting in an upright position in an overstuffed chair. He catches her eyeballing him through parted fingers! Patsy proceeds to tell Linda Arndt, a second version of how she discovered her daughter missing. She tells Arndt she went downstairs and found the note first, then hurried to her bedroom and discovered her gone. Arndt notes that Patsy is vacant & dazed, repeating over and over "Why didn't I hear my baby?" In all of Patsy Ramsey's distress she didn't turn to John Ramsey for any comfort or even to talk to him. Arndt asks Patsy her thoughts on the note, she states it was written on paper like she had in her kitchen, even though the photocopy only showed the words and barely the lines - if it showed them at all. Arndt notes the 10:00 a.m. deadline comes and goes and Patsy says nothing about the kidnappers failing to call. Patsy moves to a couch in the den and lies down and has second thoughts about naming Hoffman-Pugh as the author of the ransom note. When Patsy heard Fleet White scream she stayed positioned on the couch, even though Barbara Fernie and Priscilla White hurried towards the sound of Whites voice. Finally, Patsy being held upright by friends, came to her daughter and fell across the dead child's body. As Hoverstock started a prayer, Patsy rose to her knees, hands above her head, asking Jesus to raise her daughter from death. She was described as being ready to swoon. The 10:00 a.m. deadline for the kidnapper to call, comes and goes without Patsy Ramsey acknowledging it. A roller coaster of emotions: 6:00 to 8:00 a.m. Frantic Scared Distraught Dissolved into an emotional mess lying on the floor 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. More composed able to sit upright and now suspiciously looking through splayed fingers, as the first cop returns from his walk through of the basement. Patsy gets caught in her first lie by telling Det. Arndt a different version of how the note was found. Patsy becomes vacant and dazed and steers clear of her husband. 10:00 a.m. to 1:15 p.m. Patsy needs to lie down again. She verbalizes second thoughts on who she feels authored the note. Upon hearing White scream she stays seated on the couch. Supported by others, she goes to her daughters body and falls on it. Upon hearing the Lords prayer - Patsy rears to her knees and begs Jesus to intervene in her daughters death. She appears ready to swoon (faint). John Ramsey's demeanor from when the 911 call was placed until he was asked to leave his home, when it was officially declared a crime scene. 911 call - Angry "We are not speaking to you." Reichenbach witnesses John telling officer French, he had checked the house and it still appeared to be locked as he had left it the night before. He saw no sign of forced entry or struggle. The alarm system was not engaged and the family dog was at a neighbors house and "they" had heard nothing. Other officers who arrived noticed John was calm and composed and did absolutely nothing to comfort his wife who had dissolved into an emotional mess. French sees John trying to remove Burke from the house and French starts to ask Burke questions. John Ramsey intervenes between Burke and French and states to French that Burke slept through it all and knew nothing. He then ushered Burke to a waiting car. John Ramsey tells three different officers he had checked all doors of the house the night before and all were secure. Four months later he stated he never ever said this. John also said he read to both children after returning home at 10:00 p.m.. He then confirmed to Linda Arndt he "had" read to JonBenet. Four months later he would deny stating this as well. Arndt notices Ramsey is distracted as she goes over what to say to kidnappers - but his manner remained cordial and she felt he understood what she was saying to him. His language was clear and articulate. She would also note, that while his wife was distracted and distressed he did not go to her, to comfort her. It was like a his & her camp. Arndt asks JR his opinion on the ransom note - he offers little and is unusually quiet. He had no idea what SBTC meant. Arndt notes the 10:00 a.m. deadline comes and goes and John says nothing. Ramsey disappears from 11:00 to 12:00 and can not be accounted for in that time frame. Arndt next sees him reading his mail. Shortly after this he goes and sits alone in the dining room. He is preoccupied in thought, his leg nervously bouncing. Arndt instructs Ramsey and White to conduct a top to bottom search of the house, to look for anything that might belong to little JonBenet. She tells them not to touch anything, but to come get her if they find anything. John was on the move immediately, headed for the basement. Once downstairs Fleet White points out to John a hole the size of a baseball in a window. Ramsey tells White "Damn! I had to break that" stating he had "kicked it in" months earlier. He tapped his forehead and stated he should have fixed it then. Ramsey then headed to the wine cellar, turned the latch, opened the door and screamed "Oh my God! Oh my God!" John emerges from the basement carrying JonBenet's body out and away from him. Her lips were blue, she had an odor and she had rigor mortis. Ordered to put JonBenet down, he knelt on one side of JB and Arndt on the other. At this time a nonverbal exchange would take place between the detective and the father, that made the detective fear for her safety, as well as the others. She mentally counted out her bullets. Ramsey then asked if she was still alive - Arndt told him no she wasn't. He groaned and said "It had to be an inside job." She then ordered him to go call 911 and to go to his wife! Within 2 minutes he appeared again and tossed a blanket on JonBenet's body before the Detective could react. He knelt beside JB and stroked her hair. He then laid down next to her, and put his arm around her. Arndt thought he was crying - but there were no tears in his eyes. He came to his knees, peered around, hugged JB and called her his little angel. A detective overheard John Ramsey on the phone with his pilot, telling him to ready the plane to take him, Patsy and Burke to Georgia. A detective asked him what he thought he was doing and he said "he had something to take care of in Georgia." He was told he couldn't leave and said okay. He was then informed that the city would put them up at the Holiday Inn, so they could be interviewed - Ramsey then told the Detective him and Patsy would not go to the Holliday Inn. He was stoic. Larry Mason would say he had never seen a father as callous as John Ramsey. 6:00 to 8:00 a.m. Angry Cooperative by offering information about the dog, status of the house etc. (Retracts some cooperative statements four months later) Calm and Composed but steering clear of Patsy. Very talkative, still cooperating with anyone who'll listen - stating he read to his babies. (Retracted all statements later) Witnesses French trying to talk to his son - he intervenes and stops the discussion, Burke is removed from the house - taken to an unprotected home even though a foreign faction is on the loose. John allows no cooperation regarding Burke. 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. Distracted but cordial, Language clear and articulate Still staying away from his wife Unusually quiet when asked about the note and doesn't know SBTC. 10:00 to 1:30 Fails to notice deadline came and went with no phone call. MIA for an hour, then reappears going through his mail. Sits alone, nervous, preoccupied in thought. Upset about a window he should have fixed - taps his forehead wishing he would have fixed that then. Screams when he finds her body yet carries her awkwardly, not lovingly upstairs. Nonverbal exchange with lone detective on scene - whatever she saw scared her. Told to go to his "wife" he suddenly reappears and "tosses" a blanket over her body only. Her head and feet are still exposed. In a matter of moments he did his good-bye. He had managed to toss a blanket, kneel next to her and stroke her hair, lay beside her and outstretch his arm across her body, come to his knees, peer around, call her his angel - all before the others made their way into the room. Ready to leave state to take care of something in Georgia - no matter if he dead daughter is left behind or not. Refused to go to the Holiday Inn (again not cooperative) yet came across stoic to some and callous to others. From 6 to 8 a.m. Patsy is consistent in her emotions, but once Detectives arrive she becomes more composed and seems to be more concerned with what the cops are doing. She then gets caught in her first of many lies and then becomes dazed and confused like. She then needs to lie down and more than likely starts to feel very guilty for initially throwing her housekeeper under the bus. Instinct overrode BF and PW when they heard FW scream and they went toward the sound, Patsy's instinct was to stay seated.... When she did get up she had to be helped into the other room and once seeing her decomposing daughters body, fell on the body, begged it be raised and was ready to faint. From 6 to 8 a.m. John Ramsey became angry at his little boy for wondering aloud "what did you find" - once cops arrived he was calm and collected and cooperative, offering lots of information except when it came to them wanting to ask Burke a few simple questions. His demeanor changed somewhat when the Detectives arrived also - he became distracted, yet comprehensive of what they were saying. He was the only one who was unusually quiet about his thoughts on the ransom note and he told them he had no idea what SBTC meant, when a plaque that normally hung on his wall was later found hidden in basement closet. He disappears for an hour and then is seen reading mail. He then gets nervous and sits alone, and became very preoccupied in his own thoughts. His scene with Fleet White, at the broken window in the basement shows his acting skills are lacking, to say the least. He covered her body and said his good-byes fast enough so anyone besides Linda Arndt had no idea what he was doing. Patsy obviously didn't care who saw her do what - and she wasn't fearful of getting urine soaked when she fell across JonBenet - where I feel John carried her deliberately away from his body to avoid the urine getting on his clothes. Trying to leave the state, with his reasoning being "he had something to take care of in Atlanta" sounds so ridiculous, they should have booked them both right then for sheer stupidity, for his lousy attempt at fleeing a crime scene. I think it's obvious that the key to his involvement is found in his demeanor regarding Burke. When no one else was around and it was just him, Patsy and all of a sudden Burke starts asking questions - he became angry. An hour later he removed Burke and wouldn't allow an officer of the law to ask the child simple questions instead he answered for Burke. He knows nothing. He heard nothing. And when he removed Burke him nor Patsy either one asked for an officer to guard Burke while they waited for the kidnapper to call. John willfully and knowingly let that child go to an unprotected home, while trying to make others believe his baby had been kidnapped by a foreign faction. You can't have it both ways. You can't state that you want to call out the National Guard, cordon off the city and close the airports and then let your 10 old son out of your sight for one minute. Not even for a microsecond, John. And the biggest clue for me is that out of all of them in the house that morning, only two were fearful that someone could still possibly be in that house, after her poor little ravaged body was found - and that was Linda Arndt and Barbara Fernie. Even Fleet White wasn't scared to retrace his steps, back to the cellar, alone and unprotected, so he could go look at that duct tape on the blanket one more time. Starling [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 79. "WHoa" Posted by eedayspa on 18:09:03 6/06/2000 Go Star.....another great post. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "first suspicions" Posted by et on 21:09:46 5/22/2000 After the Ramsey interview in 1997 on CNN when John and Patsy were making excuses why JB was better off dead - never have cancer, never face the death of a child - I was amazed they could feel so resolved to her being murdered in their home while they slept just a week later. Also, it seemed strange that the only time Patsy really broke down was when she was asked if the murderer deserved the death penelty. It immediately occured to me they were guilty even though before I had assumed they were innocent [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL et ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Only ONE thing?" Posted by WitchyWoman on 20:53:31 5/22/2000 I'll have to tie a few together to make up my one thing, okay? These I'm tying together happened the morning of the 26th. PR supposedly dressing in the SAME clothes she wore the night before, putting on makeup and doing her hair BEFORE she went down to make coffee. That is the first thing that didn't seem real. Who dresses, etc. BEFORE they start the coffee pot? I cannot think of anyone I know that would do such a thing. Do you have to look good to wake up with your first cup of coffee? I don't think so. Okay, she goes down the stairs, finds papers on the step, reads only a few lines, but knows Victory and SBTC are on the last page. She screams for John - oh no, she goes to see if JB is in her bed - oh no, she screams for John, well whatever she did we'll never know. Next, John comes and hunkers down on all 4's to read the longest ransom note in history. He doesn't touch it, well, his fingerprints aren't on it, he is oh so smart, he knows he has to preserve the paper for the police to fingerprint. I have to interject here he didn't find that same need to leave his murdered daughter alone a few hours later did he? Oh well, he must have been sobbing, no? Well, maybe he didn't realize his daughter was dead, thought she was playing a game with him as stiff as she was and smelling as well. OR maybe he needed to touch everything AGAIN to be sure the police would KNOW it couldn't have been he that killed his little girl, he'd just touched, held her in front of them. John isn't as dumb as he'd like us to believe, huh? The REAL kicker to me is this intelligent couple knows the ransom letter says this foreign faction (my hinney) will be watching them, if they talk to a stray dog their daughter will be beheaded. WOW! Seems reasonable to me, pickup the phone and call everyone you know to come on over to the party and comfort them. Give me a break, they are NOT that stupid, they ARE however that selfish and self centered, I will give 'em that. These two intelligent people didn't call the FBI (everyone I believe knows the FBI handles kidnappings), they didn't look up the police dept. phone number and warn them the perp was watching the house. NOOOOO, they called 911 and knew full well the police cars with their lights and markings would be just out front for the world to see. Makes sense to me, how 'bout you? PR thinks she is a good actress, NOT! She is about as much of an actress as OJ was in that movie (I think Top Gun or something like that). She was a showboat, I'll give her that, she got all prettied up for the camera's before she called her friends and black and white's to drive over to her house. Now John doesn't know how to act, he is his same cold bastardly self. He hasn't a clue how to 'put on a show' but gotta give him credit, he tried to pretend he had just found his daughter when he ripped that tape off and carried her STIFF body upstairs. Other than that I think he was pretty much himself and it showed. Those events prove to me these people are guilty as hell and nothing they could ever do including paying someone to confess to her murder could make be believe otherwise. No, they might not get theirs in this lifetime, but they might as well kiss the doors of hell because they will be at the hands of the devil when they become cold and stiff as they made their child. WW [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "Yup" Posted by Fernandina on 17:32:26 5/23/2000 So well said -all of your post. I would never wear the same clothes as the night before-I can't imagine her doing it.I cant even see at 5 in the morning -till Ive had my coffee first. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Fernandina ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Tough to understand" Posted by frankg on 21:22:19 5/22/2000 Certainly many things that don't add up that point to the Ramsey's. I agree with several here, although several others I do not. Such is the life of a fence sitter. And as such, I need to add some balance to this discussion... o Why call the cops at 6am, knowing the body is in the house, and having a ransom note with plenty of justification for not calling while you figure out how to dispose of the body? o Why did the sure to be principle suspect(s) write a THREE page ransom note BY HAND and use personal information? o How did an emotionally wracked parent manage to write that note AND arguably succeed in hiding their handwriting? I always find these types of threads very interesting and very revealing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "What Did it for me" Posted by sabrina on 21:15:40 5/22/2000 Here's some background... I didn't think Susan Smith did it at first, neither did I think Oj did it at first....so I do not rush to judgement!! But as soon as I heard the content of the ransom note I suspected the parents. A kidnapper/killer wouldn't write a corny note like that. Then, when the Ramseys appeared on TV and Patsy told the world that there are 2 people who know who did this, the killer and someone the killer confided in and John's face drops 2 inches, I knew who did it. Patsy's babbling sounded just like the ransom note! Also, the fact that there were no interviews with the police also helped me make up my mind. Now everytime I see the Ramseys being interviewed, I feel personally insulted. I feel like they are insulting my intelligence with the lies! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "just to add to the list" Posted by Kip on 21:14:41 5/22/2000 All of the above are so true. It surely would be a shorter list if we were to post the Rams' normal reactions since JBR's death. Anyway, I'll add JR's lawyering up of his ex-wife and kids in Atlanta. If there wasn't something to hide there, why not let them talk freely to police. Think about it. If police were suspicious that you had murdered your child and wanted to talk to your relatives, wouldn't you say, heck,yes, go right ahead, knowing that your relatives would vouch for you and say that there was nothing in your past to indicate that you could ever be involved in such a crime. If JAR, Melinda, and JR's ex were in Atlanta when JBR was murdered, JR wouldn't be afraid of them talking about the actual crime. What wouldn't he want them to say about his, Patsy's or Burke's behavior? Or, then again, not everyone is sure JAR was actu [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Edie........ " Posted by starry on 21:47:43 5/22/2000 >what idiot asks "is she dead?", then > covers the body with a >throw? He wasn't worried about Patsy >seeing the body, why was it >so important for him to step >over Arndt to warm a cold >corpse? He seemed obsessed with the >fact that it was cold. He >mentions how cold out it was, >then mentions the cold basement, then >covers the cold child. Weird. And that is why the body was covered by a blanket in the basement. Such a good Daddy! The pagents being shown on TV were what set my creep meter off. No one I know wants to teach or see their 6 year old acting like JonBenet was taught to prance on stage. It's just not a good thing to indoctrinate your little girl (read baby here) into the world of looking/acting like a sexy, sultry vamp. Lord knows, we have enough trouble with kids in their pre-teen and teen age years to want to speed things up like they did to JonBenet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "He said" Posted by Fernandina on 17:22:27 5/23/2000 John to Patsy "OK - you make the call and I'll carry the dead body up the stairs" (Don't ever say I don't give 50-50 in this marriage) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Fernandina ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "The ransom note" Posted by Ryder on 21:21:11 5/22/2000 The image and state of mind of the person concocting that ransom note is what most intrigues me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Edie Pratt #1" Posted by Ryder on 21:26:00 5/22/2000 Inviting all of those friends over also strikes as strange but get this: In DOI, I noticed a sentence regarding the time of Beth's death, saying somethin like "Patsy made sure that all of John's friends were around to comfort him." If this is true, then PR doesn't believe in grieving in privacy. It could also be one of those "I'll wear the same thing two days in a row just to show him that this is normal for me". Hard to say. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "The Search for JonBenet" Posted by Sharon on 21:35:15 5/22/2000 The lack of a true search for JonBenet, prior to calling the cops. The Ramseys say they "ran around a bit", or something close to that. I'd have torn my house asunder, from top to bottom. No doubt about it. And after every inch of the house had been repeatedly searched, I'd have been out in the yards and on the street, yelling the child's name, with panic and desperation growing every minute. If my child's body had been in ANY part of my house or yards, I'd have found it. And include not waking Burke up in this whole odd scenario. You better believe every other normal parent on the planet would've awakened their other child to make sure he wasn't injured and didn't have some information on where the missing child might be. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "The body" Posted by chebrock on 21:33:01 5/22/2000 The thing that convinced me the most was the location and condition of the body. I had just read one of John Douglas's profiling books, probably Mindhunter. The book clearly states that loving family members "care for a body" after they murder it. They wrap it, clean it, and generally care for it. They don't leave it exposed, naked, in humiliating positions. Family members also don't leave the body where other younger family members might find it. It all fit just too well with where JonBenet was found and how she was wrapped in blankets with her favorite nightgown. That's the main thing. A lesser item is the fact that the body was left in the house. A true kidnapper would have taken the body and tried to claim the money anyway. That to me proves that there was no kidnapper. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL chebrock ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "There are so many," Posted by Ev on 21:41:40 5/22/2000 probably the note has got to be it for me, but what about, "we didn't mean for this to happen."? (Who means for their child to be kidnapped and then found murdered in their own house?) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "One:" Posted by Phantom on 22:16:18 5/22/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:16:18, 5/22/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:02:17, 5/22/2000 One thing that stands out to me is that after I saw the pictures of MW on Frank's holo page.. is that I'd seen at least a couple of those pictures before.And I think I remember seeing them in high school and hearing some other students talking about some kind of weirdness, or worse, that I really didn't think I wanted to hear about. And I think it was sexual. The high school was in the San Joaquin Valley, the same valley that Bakersfield is in. Then a few years later I move and the MW lives close by.(again?) Edited to add, Yes canadiana, the exact pictures.I think one was in the phone book..?(The one of MW as so little holding a telephone..?) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "WOW Phantom!" Posted by canadiana on 22:06:32 5/22/2000 Am I reading this right? You have seen those exact pictures before???? The ONE suspicious thing for me (as I parent I do know what I would do here)....they let BURKE SLEEP IN! I can't get over that. Then on TV they say...they are 99% sure he was asleep. How on earth could they NOT KNOW? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "Frank's holo page.." Posted by tall-p on 13:28:33 5/25/2000 Could you post that url for me please? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Stryker and CG said it..." Posted by Greeality on 10:25:08 5/23/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:25:08, 5/23/2000 The Note, the note the note!! Everything about it (length, wording, not hanging onto it for dear life, EVERYTHING screams "John and Patsy did it!" And here's an interesting one regarding not waking Burke - NEW THOUGHT - Let's see if I've got this right, Patsy, **"HOLD YOUR BABIES CLOSE...." **(or leave them sleep all alone on the second floor for an hour and then whisk them across town to a friend's house....) hmmmmm...**....which one is it?? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "I would say" Posted by lake on 22:28:48 5/22/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:28:48, 5/22/2000 The fact that it took over three years for the White/Brown connection to child molestation and child rape to surface. Since there was wind of this back as far as the middle of 1997 or early 1998, it really is a red flag that makes one wonder why the investigation kept that hidden while leaking all those lies and misrepresentations to the public about the Ramseys. Since when do adults decide to sexually molest a 3 or 4 year little girl on a regular basis and then just change their ways? If they were doing that 30 years ago and are still alive,they are doing it today to some kid. You can bet the farm on that. If you have a farm. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "I agree with Ev" Posted by dustii on 23:27:06 5/22/2000 Yep, "We didn't mean for this to happen." I see nothing else they can be talking about. It's clear from that statement that at the least they knew what happened. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL dustii ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "All of the above and" Posted by Seashell on 00:48:36 5/23/2000 lawyering up immediately and separately! And then hiding behind said lawyers instead of talking with the BPD. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "so many indications of guilt" Posted by pat on 06:03:34 5/23/2000 But what always hit me,,,THEY NEVER LOOKED FOR THAT CHILD. They never, while waiting for cops and the multitudes to show up, looked outside, ransacked the house, yelled to the neighbors, ran down the alley,,,they never looked for a second. Me, the first thing would be to pull the house and neighborhood apart, looking everywhere. And the note,,no kidnapper writes a tome and the foster analysis cinched it. The rest ,,all posted above,,confirm. No mother I know with a missing child just melts down,,,most if not all of us and our husbands would become tigers looking for our cubs. We don't sit around having hysterics when our kids are threatened. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "You are so right!!!" Posted by tall-p on 13:35:31 5/25/2000 you look! You run, you have neighbors look and call. You don't sit and wait. But they did. They always say they were hysterical when confronted with these kinds of questions though. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "the clothes" Posted by dixie on 05:59:20 5/23/2000 The fact that Patsy was dressed with full make-up wearing her day old clothes after wearing them to a party with how many people there? You know darn well those clothes stunk after mingling hours with so many people and food. For her to have them on before a pot of coffee was even cooking tells me that Pats didn't know what kind of evidence was left behind that night and had to account for her clothing fibers(if any were going to be found) what she did with the clothes is covered her @ss. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "Same clothes on because" Posted by Fernandina on 16:35:31 5/25/2000 She never went to bed. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "I always found it odd" Posted by Fernandina on 17:45:00 5/23/2000 They let Burke sllep they say. If one of my children was kidnapped I would have that other one wrapped around me immediately -after all that house is unsfae-the kidnapper might still be in it-I would be scared too and maybe run out with the family. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Fernandina ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "my biggest concern" Posted by ericasf on 06:31:31 5/23/2000 is the fact of all the inconsistencies with regards to the Ramms comments to the police and the media and in their book. They have not stuck to one story this whole time and things that have really made them seem guilty. Such as the prying marks outside the kitchen door. A witness stepped forward to refute the charges that Patsy said that they were new when in reality, the witness pointed them out months before the murder. Stuff like that just makes no sense to me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "The guilty factor.." Posted by Aurora on 08:15:31 5/23/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:15:31, 5/23/2000 is adding up. We should take all these reasons and list them to see how many we get. There should be plently.. as ST stated for an arrest on probable cause. Just too many things that point in their direction! If we followed the path where it is leading...it goes straight to the parents! In my opinion they never acted like they were innocent by their actions that day. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "The whole morning!!" Posted by nana2 on 08:53:27 5/23/2000 There was nothing that rang true that morning. The biggest to me, though, was calling friends who arrived before the police, or as the police arrived, when they were told, gruesomely, not to call anyone. Not picking up the ransom note after "realizing" what it was, sending Burke away, and then trying to leave town. And not cooperating with any and all authorities , and getting their lives back together so fast, and ..... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "Their bizarre actions" Posted by Fernandina on 16:42:33 5/24/2000 Yes -these factors add up. That is why I wanted to see what was the most single thing that stands out for everyone about this case. List these reasons on a paper -then list on the other side why you think they didn't do it. You will see it more clearly then. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "No intruder" Posted by Luvsa Mystery on 08:52:39 5/23/2000 An intruder would have to have been just way too comfortable in the R's home. The intruder didn't drug the family to be certain they would remain asleep. He didn't cut the phone lines to be certain the family wasn't quietly dialing 911 as he got his jollies in the basement. He entered the wine cellar with no means of escape when at any moment the Calvary may come charging down the stairs? If you've got a stun-gun, who needs tape? If you've got a stun-gun, who needs some puny cord? No stun-gun? Then if you have tape, who needs cord? My one thing is that, try as I might, I cannot believe any of the intruder theories. So, I'm left to agree with John: "This had to have been an inside job." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "Hiding" Posted by IndyAnna on 09:21:11 5/23/2000 I was suspicious of Patsy ever since she was shown with her head covered. That is what "guilty" people do (or celebrities in hiding). Of course, maybe she thought she was Princess Di! The clincher, though, was the CNN Interview when they wanted to get on with their lives. WHAT??? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Anotherone" Posted by momo on 09:33:45 5/23/2000 was when Patsy told John Q Public to get a life and stop worrying about them. Something to the effect that we need to quit obsessing about JonBenet! What????? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "The sound of silence;" Posted by Waiting on 09:58:43 5/23/2000 the stunning lack of any incisive or effective action, combined with continued prevarication, on the part of many key government and law enforcement officials connected with the case, right down the line. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Patsy's behavior" Posted by gaiabetsy on 11:27:53 5/23/2000 when the police arrived that morning. She seemed to overdramatize being upset, while looking the scene over through splayed fingers - probably in an effort to take in if anyone was watching her performance! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "Burke" Posted by tx_sunshine on 11:35:27 5/23/2000 Also saying he wanted to get on with his life. My take on that is he heard it ALOT of times from PR&JR. I know Burke had some other things he said that I thought had to come from him hearing it at home.I LOL just can`t remember what they were. Hey what about PR asking MG(I hope that is right)To fix it.Like maybe she could fix JBR like one of her gowns. There are soo many things that they have said and done that make me think of GUILT. I also remember the first time I seen PR.She was leaving the hellhole with her face covered on their way to the Fernies on the 26. JFJB Hugs Tx-sunshine [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "It makes alot of sense" Posted by chebrock on 11:30:26 5/23/2000 It makes alot of sense when you are covering up a murder and attempting to fabricate an intruder where none existed. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "One thing.." Posted by Nandee on 18:00:23 5/23/2000 When John came up the stairs yelling he had found JonBenet, Patsy stayed in the other room until some friend went and brought her into the living room. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Nandee ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "ONE???" Posted by Seeker on 17:12:44 5/24/2000 One thing? You've got to be kidding? There are too many discrepancies. If I had to pick one thing, it would be ALL OF IT! I've been researching this case for over 3 years and too many things just don't add up. Too many stories, and explinations have been said by the primary players, John & Patsy. Isn't it facinating that they only sued tabloids, etc. that said Burke did it? Why not go after those same tabs, etc. that said John, or Patsy did it? Don't you just want to get your hands on Patsy and shake the crap out of her? I really hate liars! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "Showerless " Posted by Edie Pratt on 12:14:52 5/25/2000 The more I think about it, the more it makes sense about Patsy in her day old outfit, sitting frozen clutching a tree ornament. Notice she doesn't move? All morning, just sitting there. But, the minute she gets her cue, she emerges like a whirling dervish, pumping up and down over the corpse, waving her arms enough to sprinkle fibers all over THAT dead child. Well, quite the contrast from JR's OBVIOUS distancing from the body. Holds her away, covers with a throw before pouncing on her and saying his "goodbye".There's no trace of him. Hmmmm, if I killed someone, I would make certain there was no trace of me anywhere, too. If I could enlist the help of someone, it would make sense to have that someone's fibers there instead. If the innocent party can contaminate the body with yesterday's fibers, and I was naked when I did my deed, how perfect to direct the police/FBI in the direction of the innocent one. Like a fireing squad, nobody knows who's bullet actually accomplished the killing. In this case, JR picked up all his casings and left Patsy's there instead. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "Edie" Posted by vic on 12:37:46 5/25/2000 You forgot about her throwing up - just sitting wouldn't capture enough attention. The 'grand' appearance on CNN was way too bizarre. It was the kiss of death for any believability of innocence. Who would give a s**t about 'thanking people' a few days after such a horrible event? It was glaringly, obviously about them. Thank the NATION for what? Nobody knew them. You thank the people close to you, who have helped in a terrible moment. They sure are crappy liars. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "Yes, Vic," Posted by gaiabetsy on 13:04:37 5/25/2000 and let's always keep in mind the fact these "poor distraught people (especially drugged Patsy)" were unable to give the police interviews during this time, but could sure go on national TV. Pleaseeeeeeeee....... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "Vic" Posted by Edie Pratt on 13:10:04 5/25/2000 how true:-) I sure would like to see all those letters and emails(thought JR told Lee Hill he didn't get email?) from all those well-wishers JR brags about. Who are these people that approach them daily to say "atta boy!"? Yeah well, plenty of people out there want OJ's autograph too, but that doesn't seem to change the truth, either. He's happy to glad hand anyone willing/brave enough to want to touch him, even if they did just call him a butcher,lol. Guess he only hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest, li di li di li li li, li di di.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "Edie, " Posted by gaiabetsy on 13:31:21 5/25/2000 isn't it great there is a court of public opinion? They always reveal the real truth. Yep, I'm with you, I'm sure they get their share of hugs, but I bet their lives are rendered pretty miserable most of the time. Sometimes, I think that's why they took the polygraph - to lessen the pressure of the masses of people in the grocery store, pharmacy, movie rental, bookstore, Wal-mart to be sure they're treated more favorably because they've had an equal or greater share of negative responses. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "wal-mart?" Posted by stryker on 16:34:06 5/25/2000 i'll bet that's where they buy those birdhouses! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "The Red Turtleneck ..." Posted by mandarin on 23:36:38 5/25/2000 Jonbenet's red turtle neck sweater that she wore to the Whites, lying in a rolled up ball on her bathroom vanity and the large package of pull-ups hanging halfway out on the laundry shelf. Patsy definitely said Jonbenet was put to bed in that red turtleneck sweater. John mentioned in their DOI that Jonbenet wanted to wear the sweater with the heart on it to the Whites (the one she was found dead in). Now, just how the hell did that red turtle neck get pulled off Jonbenet in a rolled-up ball and get placed on the vanity. These are the FACTS. No other human being on the planet earth would have bothered to remove that red turtle neck sweater and redress her in the exact sweater she had originally wanted to wear to the White's that day (the new white one with the little silver star that Mom wouldn't allow her to wear that very day). AND ... the utter bullshit that two frightened parents with a missing child, would not immediately wake up their only remaining child, if not for any other reason than to ask if Jonbenet was hiding in his closet or room. Burke was awake or awakened, make no mistake about that. Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 69. "They Did Get Burke Up - That's the biggest for me" Posted by CommonSense on 03:13:22 5/26/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 03:13:22, 5/26/2000 Edited to say "They Didn't Get Burke Up" Your children sleep on a lower floor from your bedroom. You get up the next morning and a note claims that someone has one child. Anyone with half a brain (maybe this is why Patsy told John not to try to grow one) would have given that boy shaken boy syndrome to get him up and find out what, if anything, he heard or knew. This is just STUPID!!!!!! Burke was the only one sleeping on the same floor of the house as JonBenet. He is the only ONE who might have heard something - yet, they don't even ask him? That is so stupid that it is a lie as a matter of law! And, you're right then John doesn't look in his own house for her? He patiently waits for the police and never looks around before they get there. Then he finds her within minutes of a police officer telling him to look around the house - PLEASE! GET US A JURY! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 70. "Commonsense-you're right" Posted by Fernandina on 18:20:42 6/03/2000 Anyone with half a brain (maybe this is why Patsy told John not to try to grow one) would have given that boy shaken boy syndrome to get him up and find out what, if anything, he heard or knew. This is just STUPID!!!!!! Burke was the only one sleeping on the same floor of the house as JonBenet. >>> I never thought of it that way -you are so very right! This whole thing sticnks so bad! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 71. "A brick wall between them" Posted by Fernandina on 17:42:36 6/05/2000 I still still still go to the body language-PR and JR were worlds apart that morning with the police there- You would think that John would be constantly with his arms around PR soothing her (If he is always so much in control) He would be trying to make PR feel better-ar shring the agony in each others arms. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 72. "I wrote a list" Posted by Fernandina on 17:47:19 6/05/2000 Now that we have seen the one odd thing that stands out to us the most- I have taken a sheeet of paper and listed all the oddities on one side of the abnormal behavior-and reasons why I think they or PR killed the child -and on the other side of the paper the normal behavioral items and intruder theory reasons. It is interesting to see this way. Needless to say -it is more reasnable to see that they are resonsible. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 73. "Burke" Posted by v_p on 19:01:27 6/05/2000 I agree with CommonSense. I would have grabbed onto Burke and not let go. Not only that, but the even stranger thing, to me, was how they sent him to someone elses house. Think about it - where is the safest place that day in all of Boulder Colorado? Their house - where the police are. This "monster" could be watching - after all, they were told not to contact ANYONE - I'd be afraid the small foreign faction would be just a titch cranky by now. That aspect - maybe because I'm a mother - has always stuck out for me. V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 74. "re: Burke" Posted by Greeality on 21:44:07 6/05/2000 Yup - Here's what i also noticed regarding Burke - Patsy said (what, three days later?? on CNN) "Hold Your Babies Close.." Which one is it, Patsy - Hold them close?? OR let them lie in bed for XX minutes (45?) then ship them across town? Hmmmmmmmm............... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 75. "identity crisis" Posted by pinker on 10:36:22 6/06/2000 If I think back to before I'd read any books and it was just days after the crime I do remember thinking it was a form of emotional child abuse to bleach or alter the color of a 6 year olds hair. The development of any sense of self(worth and esteem) are childhood goals that would be impeded upon. Once before while walking in front of a hugh thrift store in Chicago I saw an elementary school aged hispanic girl with shockingly unnatural, bleached ,long thick hair. The other women with her had natural colored yet fancy doos and cuts. I just concluded maybe it was practice for cosmetology school, there was one down the street. The girl looked happy as a lark, Maybe it was what she wanted, to look like Barbie? But she was older, at least 10, she would have consented with a different ability than JBR. The hair was a red flag to me right away that something had gone wrong in Ramseyville. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 76. "The note and the previous vaginal trauma" Posted by cstuart on 13:00:13 6/06/2000 1. How preposterous that note was. No intruder would have a reason to write a note, let alone three pages of high drama. 2. That fact that the Ramsey's deny previous vaginal trauma. If I were the parent and that was a possibility I wouldn't act like that was preposterous as the Ramsey's do, I would wonder who we knew could have had that kind of regular access to my child. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 77. "Mandarin" Posted by sebastian on 14:15:51 6/06/2000 about the red turtle-neck. JonBenet did wear the white sweater with the star on it to the White's. Patsy wanted her to wear the red turtle-neck because it matched Patsy's outfit. Patsy made a mistake when she told Steve Thomas what JonBenet was wearing. (I think she had another idea in mind when she first made that statement). I think ST mentions this in his book about Patsy changing her story about the red top. I would think that the police would be able to verify this as fact because they had the roll of film from that evening. Please correct me on this if I am wrong. :-) The thing that strikes me as odd is the fact that when John and Patsy are confronted with the question of sexual abuse they act as though it hasn't been verified as fact. I find this is odd because this case has been labeled from day one as a murder with sexual overtones. It is a definate fact that she was molested. I think the R's don't want to admit it because, well.... I think you guys know the answer to that. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 78. "Sabastan" Posted by Luvsa Mystery on 14:27:47 6/06/2000 Curious isn't it that on LKL (recent interview of ST and Rs) that when ST said that JB wore the red turtle neck (that night) and that Patsy changed JB out of the red turtleneck in the bathroom (then an explosive encounter ensued) that Patsy didn't deny it that JB wore the red turtle neck that night? That's what drives me nuts about this case, we can't get simple answers to simple questions like what did she wear that night; who feed her pineapple; who did her hair; who was present at the White's home that night; who was at the 23rd party; etc. Darn it, that's what keeps this pot boiling. If the Rs had just answered all the cops questions right off, perhaps they wouldn't be under that darn umbrella. They'd either be in jail or veiwed as innocent victims of a horrible crime. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 80. "The one thing that stands out the most..." Posted by ace21214 on 18:48:45 6/06/2000 I know I keep repeating myself but the one thing that will always stand out in my mind is that first CNN interview five days after JBR's murder. Until the day I die, I will never get over Patsy Ramsey, in full make-up, saying, "Keep your babies close to you." I had chills up and down my spine. Again, I say that an innocent mother who lost her child in the most horrific way possible would probably be in a catatonic state, not giving interviews looking perfectly coifed. The Ramsey spin started from that moment, folks. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 81. "I agree with you-" Posted by Fernandina on 15:06:30 6/11/2000 I saw the news about the murder when I was at my beach house in Fla. and when I got back to Atlanta and later saw the CNN news cast -and the funeral clips from church here-I new then that the mother was guilty in my Opinion. It reminds me now of when that disgusting couple from Fla claimed their baby was kidnapped from their house -and the mother said on the news - "....my baby is gone and her name is ___ ___ ____ -she gave the whole name -with the MIDDLE name -I thought that is so odd -how could you calmly call out the the first second and third name -like she was reading a grocery list. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]