Justice Watch Discussion Board "Case Connections to Child Porn" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Case Connections to Child Porn, Seashell, 12:46:16, 5/27/2000 Seashell, momo, 16:43:06, 5/27/2000, (#1) Dear Seashell....., Slinky, 17:13:20, 5/27/2000, (#2) Slinky, momo, 17:46:29, 5/27/2000, (#3) Hi Seashell and all, Msracoon, 18:10:01, 5/27/2000, (#4) Credit, Seashell, 18:45:39, 5/27/2000, (#5) Reason to "Silence"..., johnlin, 19:26:31, 5/27/2000, (#6) Exactly, Seashell , Slinky, 19:47:38, 5/27/2000, (#7) thinking, maundy, 20:19:35, 5/27/2000, (#8) The the secret room in Charlevoix..., Holly, 21:08:16, 5/27/2000, (#9) Child Porno, lake, 22:54:21, 5/27/2000, (#11) nothing at all, becky, 23:44:01, 5/28/2000, (#54) Uh, lake..., Holly, 10:48:13, 5/28/2000, (#22) SBTC & Child Porn?, Anton, 22:45:16, 5/27/2000, (#10) Anton., Holly, 11:04:05, 5/28/2000, (#25) hellholes all over, maundy, 00:02:03, 5/28/2000, (#12) Uh Oh, Seashell, 01:52:21, 5/28/2000, (#16) If i stop posting suddenly..., maundy, 01:25:26, 5/28/2000, (#13) BLTZKR>...., Pedro, 01:41:36, 5/28/2000, (#14) I couldn't resist . . . , lee2, 01:49:37, 5/28/2000, (#15) pedro seashell, maundy, 04:49:28, 5/28/2000, (#17) Seashell, Slinky and Anton, Morgan, 07:44:59, 5/28/2000, (#19) Morgan., Holly, 11:06:35, 5/28/2000, (#26) lee2, hareen, 07:34:11, 5/28/2000, (#18) Yep, Seashell, 09:56:02, 5/28/2000, (#20) PR, peel, 23:38:54, 5/29/2000, (#72) Seashell., Holly, 10:57:57, 5/28/2000, (#23) what are you saying???, Edie Pratt, 11:03:59, 5/28/2000, (#24) What I'm saying is that, Holly, 11:11:23, 5/28/2000, (#28) therefore,, Edie Pratt, 11:18:59, 5/28/2000, (#30) There are so, Holly, 11:38:31, 5/28/2000, (#32) or did you mean, Edie Pratt, 11:44:49, 5/28/2000, (#34) Click here to see Cherokee Castle/Ranch, Holly, 10:46:42, 5/28/2000, (#21) Yes Holly, Msracoon, 11:10:11, 5/28/2000, (#27) MsRac., Holly, 11:13:15, 5/28/2000, (#29) OH NO!, Jellyjaws, 11:22:33, 5/28/2000, (#31) Gimme a break Jellyjaws --, Holly, 11:39:54, 5/28/2000, (#33) HOLLY!, Jellyjaws, 12:23:35, 5/28/2000, (#35) Jellyjaws., Holly, 20:59:36, 5/28/2000, (#49) PSS, Holly, Edie Pratt, 12:27:28, 5/28/2000, (#36) Porn Rings (different than mood rings), lee2, 13:09:42, 5/28/2000, (#37) Jelly, Seashell, 13:22:16, 5/28/2000, (#38) sig heil, maundy, 13:31:28, 5/28/2000, (#39) lee2, Pope38, 15:20:42, 5/28/2000, (#40) Eek ..., hareen, 15:42:10, 5/28/2000, (#41) So, the BPD, Morgan, 17:06:19, 5/28/2000, (#42) Morgan, Seashell, 18:04:17, 5/28/2000, (#43) Seashell, Morgan, 18:16:06, 5/28/2000, (#44) overplaying ones hand..., becky, 19:23:17, 5/28/2000, (#45) so what I'm hearing is..., becky, 20:51:17, 5/28/2000, (#47) A Leap..., Anton, 20:50:40, 5/28/2000, (#46) Anton, SJ, 21:26:24, 5/28/2000, (#51) Anton, becky, 20:54:49, 5/28/2000, (#48) EdieP., Holly, 21:00:49, 5/28/2000, (#50) Checking In, janphi, 22:14:39, 5/28/2000, (#52) Maundi...., Pedro, 22:59:09, 5/28/2000, (#53) for your consideration..., maundy, 23:52:45, 5/28/2000, (#55) Pedro, maundy, 23:59:02, 5/28/2000, (#56) Why murder a young child?, Brightlight, 00:16:50, 5/29/2000, (#57) Janphi, RiverRat, 06:20:46, 5/29/2000, (#58) please...., becky, 10:39:47, 5/29/2000, (#59) sigels, maundy, 11:04:34, 5/29/2000, (#60) becky, maundy, 11:12:45, 5/29/2000, (#61) maundy, becky, 12:45:53, 5/29/2000, (#62) who's to say?, maundy, 15:12:35, 5/29/2000, (#63) if you really want to know..., peel, 00:02:35, 5/30/2000, (#73) More on the Franklin Cover Up, lee2, 20:09:33, 5/29/2000, (#71) The Finders..., NOVA, 15:21:17, 5/29/2000, (#64) Nova, lee2, 17:00:26, 5/29/2000, (#66) Oh, my, lee2,, NOVA, 18:15:20, 5/29/2000, (#69) Lee2,, NOVA, 17:27:49, 5/29/2000, (#67) NOVA, lee2, 17:34:23, 5/29/2000, (#68) Yeah, this, NOVA, 18:32:13, 5/29/2000, (#70) heil and lamenations, maundy, 15:34:15, 5/29/2000, (#65) if only 15% of this is true..., maundy, 00:29:19, 5/30/2000, (#74) If 15% is true, becky, 08:56:51, 5/30/2000, (#75) Becky posts:, NOVA, 09:55:59, 5/30/2000, (#76) shape-shifting doubtful, maundy, 11:06:26, 5/30/2000, (#77) Maundy!, Holly, 11:33:29, 5/30/2000, (#78) becky, maundy, 01:29:16, 5/31/2000, (#82) Pope38...I've BEEN to Camp Glisson!, Cassandra, 11:48:16, 5/30/2000, (#79) Cassandra., Holly, 11:51:54, 5/30/2000, (#80) drop in the bucket, maundy, 01:24:35, 5/31/2000, (#81) just want to tell everyone that.., becky, 15:37:16, 5/31/2000, (#83) becky, Anton, 19:58:28, 5/31/2000, (#84) ................................................................... "Case Connections to Child Porn" Posted by Seashell on 12:46:16 5/27/2000 I hesitate to start this thread as Irene started one that posted the URL which I just read and tho it's quite long, I think it bears printing out. It's a eye opener. And thank you, Irene, for the URL. I'm still feeling somewhat aghast. Home >> Discussions >> alt . mindcontrol >> alt.mindcontrol DISCUSSIONS SEARCH Power Search >> Forum: alt.mindcontrol >> Thread: New Suspect in JonBenet Ramsey Case >> Message 1 of 4 Subject: New Suspect in JonBenet Ramsey Case Date: 04/21/2000 Author: Alex Constantine << previous · next in thread >> The JonBenet Ramsey Case: Emerging Child Sex-Ring Allegations, Political Connections and a Suspect By Alex Constantine (c) April, 2000 ÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐ Introduction: The Belinda Schultz File 1.) Southwestern Child-Pornocrats: A.) The Huey Meaux Connection B.) Jerry J. Moore, Houston Real-Estate Developer C.) The Prime of Ms Tweet Kimball 2.) Supporting Evidence of Child Sex Ring Involvement A.) A Brotherhood B.) The Belgium Syndrome C.) Lawrence Schiller & the Designated Patsy (Ramsey) ÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐ Introduction: The Belinda Schultz file On March 22, I received a call from Joe Calhoun, a reporter from the Denver area and a recipient of an Academy Award in 1990 for his investigative work on The Panama Deception. For the record, we had talked once before, also by telephone, about the JonBenet Ramsey case, exchanged observations, and that was the extent of my past relationship with him. At the time, I had an uncomfortable feeling that Boulder police spokesmen, the cable martinets and investigative "experts" on the case were misrepresenting the facts. Calhoun was in town, Los Angeles, and wanted to discuss the murder in detail. Shortly thereafter, Calhoun Ð with the bearded, wide-eyed demeanor of an academic on the brink of a discovery Ð dropped a folder on my desk. For this record, he read a prepared statement:: "I am a freelance journalist who has been covering the JonBenet Ramsey case since its beginnings. There are only a few news conferences in Boulder that I have not attended. At the last news conference, on October 13, 1999, the day after the announcement by Alex Hunter that there would be no charges filed in the Ramsey case following the adjournment of the Grand Jury, myself and a few individuals were given a file." I was, at this stage, stepping more or less blindly into a quagmire of details after three years of following the public debacle casually on the cable talk shows. Whatever Calhoun had, I was not in the mood for conspiratorial moonshine, but he had been down this road himself Ð the file, containing 23 pages of interviews with a victim of organized child abuse in Colorado and Texas, "was of such a bizarre nature, I was extremely circumspect about regarding it as a collection of genuine documents and confidential memos. I jokingly referred to it to some of my colleagues as ŒThe Blair Witch Project of the JonBenet Ramsey case.1 I didn1t pursue any of the leads mentioned in the file until recently. ŒThree weeks ago," Calhoun recalled, "a 37-year-old woman from San Luis Obispo, California came forward with information to Boulder Attorney Lee Hill. She alleged that she came from a family of inter-generational child abuse victims, and had been abused since the age of three by a powerful group of pedophiles, some of whom were associates of the Ramsey family. I dug up the file I had originally obtained in October and decided to give it a second look, since the information contained therein seemed to parallel the information the woman was providing Boulder D.A. Alex Hunter and the police. Upon rereading all of the information contained in it, and cross-referencing names, the entire file had more of a flow of information." Calhoun came to entertain the notion that the sex-ring allegations surfacing sporadically on the edge of the case might have some merit. "On March 21, I contacted the Pearline, Texas Police Department for verification of the Paul Schultz [child sexual abuse] case mentioned in the file. I was immediately transferred to Detective Bill Colson,. He was unaware of the recent developments in Boulder concerning the 37-year-old woman from San Luis Obispo, California. However, Detective Colson confirmed the following: The case number '951302,' on pages 7 and 14, is genuine, and the woman, Belinda Schultz, currently living in Cypress, Texas, in a notarized statement contained in the file, at the time would [have been] more likely to give information concerning the Ramsey case. And a Boulder detective was in Texas in December, 1997, seeking information regarding Paul Schultz [her estranged husband] and his involvement, if any, in the JonBenet Ramsey case." Calhoun placed the next call to a private investigator, Char Blaiser, wife of O.J. Simpson attorney Robert Blaiser, at her office in Sacramento, California. Ms Blasier Ð whose office had been contracted by Boulder police to obtain social security numbers of everyone close to the Ramsey case Ð reportedly states that the night after the JonBenet murder, a caller claiming to be a member of the Ramsey family told her, "I want to talk to you about Paul," but disconnected when put on hold. Blasier, Calhoun recalls, "was extremely surprised that I had information in my possession concerning Paul Schultz, and essentially confirmed the information regarding the JonBenet Ramsey case." "It is clear," Calhoun says, "from the statements of both Detective Colson and Char Blazer that the Boulder authorities were very interested in a connection between the death of Jonbenet Ramsey and what appears astonishingly to be organized pedophilia on a national level, perhaps with a criminal government license."1 Child sex and pornography rings with political ties have been known to exist. In 1995, for example, Linda Rozar, president of Concerned Citizens for Florida and chapter head of the American Family Association, a branch of presidential candidate Gary Bauer's ultra-conservative Federation, pled guilty to one count of child abuse and two counts of tampering with a witness. She received a remarkably light sentence, one year of probation, and was ordered to see a psychiatrist. In 1986, Linda's husband Jerry Rozar was convicted of child molestation. So there were precedents. And since the murder, the 1999 Parent of the Year Award, an honor conceived by Congress, was bestowed on a Longmont, Colorado man with connections to a cult that prostitutes young girls, so-called "hookers for Jesus," and has been charged repeatedly with child sexual abuse Ð the annual honor was chosen by the National Parents Day Foundation, an organization that has ties to the Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, a creation of the Korean CIA and also very right-wing.. It happens. Nevertheless, a healthy dose of skepticism was called for. Calhoun's conclusion about the background of the JonBenet case was based, again, on a file of police interviews passed to him at a Boulder press conference. Fortunately, its origin is no longer a mystery. Calhoun has, since obtaining the file, found out that the documents were supplied by a researcher at the University of Denver. The University, says Calhoun, threatened to fire the tenured faculty member if he continued with his investigation of the Ramsey case, and the file was passed along to reporters in Boulder. If the statements of Belinda Schultz and other abuse survivors are correct, Boulder has a serious problem. With Calhoun1s file of leaked affidavits, all that remained was to flesh out a Who1s Who register of predators tied to the alleged killer of JonBenet Ramsey in 1996. 1.) Southwestern Child-Pornocrats Belinda Schultz, 43, was born to the Zander family, an established, aristocratic family in Louisiana, and grew up in Lafayette, near New Orleans. Her first marriage was to Lanny Slaydon, an oil industry marketer. She had four children before the marriage dissolved in the early 1980s. She moved on to Houston to live with family members, and met Paul Schultz. She describes her ex-husband as a "white supremicist" of the "Christian Identity" strain, and a "mafia hit-man" currently serving time for felony child molestation, sentenced in Brazoria County, Texas, the county seat of Angleton. Prior to their divorce, Paul and Belinda ran Custom Air Products on Hampstead Road in northwest Houston, a business formerly run by Paul1s father, Carlton Schultz. She notes that the business had "Mafia" connections. The company largely served the petroleum industry along the Gulf Coast, but everyday management of the business fell to Belinda because her husband was often incapacitated by a weakness for cocaine and alcohol. They had a child, Nicholas, in 1990. In an affidavit filed with the Pearland, Texas PD, Nicholas recalls that his father used to receive "sugar" and "lots of money: when he pimped his son out to pedophiles frequenting the adult bookstores on Houston1s south side. Belinda1s second marriage crumbled when she began to suspect that he was bisexual and had a gay lover, Tenourio Luga, sometimes "Lucas," a reputed explosives expert and informant to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, who has provided his services to the Mexican Mafia and CIA. Luga is a suspected drug runner. Hea has been investigated in the past by the BATF for the stockpiling of firearms and explosives. A.) The Huey Meaux Connection Paul Schultz, according to his ex-wife, was also a coeval of Huey Meaux, the famed record producer and a convicted child molester. On January 30, 1996, the Associated Press reported: "Huey Meaux, 66, was arrested and appeared in court Monday on charges of possession of child pornography and cocaine. He was released after posting bonds totaling $110,000. After police went public with the allegations Monday, two people came forward to say they were assaulted. Meaux then was charged additionally with two counts of sexually assaulting childrenS. Police investigators seized hundreds of videotapes and more than 1,000 photographs last week from offices rented by Meaux at Houston1s Sugar Hill Recording Studio. Meaux formerly owned the studio."2 Huey was charged with possession of drugs and child pornography and two counts of sexual assault on a child. Two weeks after the arrest, Shannon McDowell Brasher, 25, filed a sexual abuse lawsuit against Meaux, alleging that he had plied her with illegal drugs as a prelude to sexual assault, "exploitation and other perverted and unnatural sex acts." He also persuaded accomplices to assault her and videotaped the acts, according to Ms Brasher. State District Judge Mark Davidson issued a temporary restraining order sought by Brasher1s attorneys, Dick DeGuerin and Wayne Isgitt. The order prohibited the record producer or others from destroying evidence or retaliating against Brasher.3 Belinda Schultz1s contention that Meaux participated in a child sex ring is substantiated by Brasher and court transcripts. .Belinda1s son Nicholas, age six at the time of Meaux1s arrest, identified the accused in a televised news report. Belinda called Bill Colson, a detective with the Pearland Police Department. Coilson did not investigate the sex-ring allegation, though he told her that he would contact Houston police to search for a photo of Nicholas among Meaux1s child pornography collection. Frustrated with Colson1s false promises, she contacted Detective A.D. Wright, the officer in charge of the Meaux case. Wright confirmed a connection between Meaux and Paul Schultz. In addition, according to Calhoun1s file, Officer P.C. Taylor of the CID section produced telephone records indicating that Schultz and Meaux had made "numerous" calls to one another. Houston police offered that they had a "thick file" on Schultz, linking him to several known pedophiles in Houston. B.) Jerry J. Moore, Houston Real Estate Developer One of Paul Schultz1s confederates in the sex ring, according to Nicholas Schultz, was a wealthy Republican, one Jerry J. Moore. Nicholas says that he once accompanied Moore by plane to Colorado. In January 1996, the federal Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) announced that it sought a $250,000 civil penalty against Charles R. Vickery, former senior chairman of the First National Bank of Bellaire, Texas. The OCC charged that in 1991, Vickery directed the bank to make illicit loans to Houston real estate magnate Jerry J. Moore and corporations owned and controlled by him. Vickery also granted some $50,000 of title insurance premiums paid by Moore on the loans for his personal use. The loans violated federal lending limit law and triggered alarms at the OCC . The S&L was issued a cease and desist order.4 Jerry J. Moore is now one of the wealthiest men in Texas. His real estate company was recently bought out for $400 million. He is also active in Republican state politics. Nicholas Schultz maintains that he was taken to Moore1s anteebellum mansion, Nicholstone, not far from Dickerson, Texas, and describes the home as a distribution point for child pornography. Huey Meaux was a regular at Moore1s mansion, according to the boy1s statements. Moore1s social connections Ð to the Mafia Ð are consistent with the "hit man" allegation raised by Belinda Schultz. Moore1s social circle included: Leonard Capaldi, convicted by the district court in the southern district of Texas on charges of bank fraud and bribery, stemming from his involvement in the April 4, 1986 collapse of Mainland Savings Bank. This S&L lost $300 million. Capaldi was sentenced to the Federal Correctional Institute in Milan, Michigan.5 Leading lights of the Mainland Savings scandal: arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi, James Bath (a business associate of George W. Bush, recruited to the CIA by George, Sr,), Martin Schimmer (for walking off with Teamster steelworker pension funds), Herman K. Beebe, a known Mafioso. Another gangland chum of Jerry J. Moore is Jack Tocco, a Detroit crime boss. Political ties have included late Texas Governor John Connally and Lloyd Bentson, former Secretary of the Treasury.6 C.) The Prime of Ms Tweet Kimball Another connection to Paul Schultz was the late Mildred "Tweet" Kimball. Tweet lived in a castle on US 85, just south of Denver in a small town called Sedalia. Nicholas Schultz states that he was taken to the castle and molested there by adults. The castle was deeded to Kimball by Merritt Ruddock, a member of the U.S. diplomatic corps, obscure CIA official and her first of four divorced husbands. Tweet Kimball divorced Ruddock in 1955, and as she explained to a local reporter in 1996: "When I divorced him, he said I1d probably go back to Tennessee and talk about him. He said Œif you1ll buy property west of the Mississippi, I1ll help you.1 And that1s what I did." She bought a 24-room castle on a 4,000 acre estate, built on a promontory with a view of the Rockies.7 Ruddock had good reason to buy her silence. He was the immediate deputy of the CIA1s Frank Wisner, the notorious overseer of Nazi recruitment by the agency immediately after WW II. Ruddock was hired by Wisner in 1949. Ray Cline, another notorious Agency stinkbug (the organizer of a support network for George Bush, Sr.1s 1980 campaignÐcomposed almost entirely of former intelligence officers headed by Steven Halper, Cline1s son-in-law), kept close to Ruddock throughout the war. Cline recalls Ruddock as a hard drinker and "a personal manipulator of ideas and people."8 (The Colorado Department of Tourism doesn1t advertise the fact, but the state has a thriving intelligence establishment.. Loring Wirbel, an environmental researcher in Monument, Colorado, found that worldwide "intelligence expansion by U.S. agencies has a very real impact on Colorado. Buckley [Air Force Base] is now the major employer in the Denver metro area, with the classified Aerospace Data Facility section of the base responsible for far more jobs than the public Tactical Air Command portion of the base. The Denver Business Journal estimated in April that classified intelligence spending by NSA and NRO in Colorado may exceed $3 billion annually. Support facilities for Buckley include Falcon Air Force Base east of Colorado Springs, which performs intelligence Œfusion1 missions; Lockheed-Martin1s Waterton Canyon plant in southwest Denver, which builds spy satellites and Titan-4 rockets; Peterson Air Force Base, the headquarters of the Space Command; and the aging North American Aerospace Defense Command inside Cheyenne Mountain west of Colorado Springs. Another Air National Guard base outside Greeley, Colorado, is receiving many mobile satellite reconnaissance troops formerly housed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, part of a mission to make the Colorado Front Range a Œcenter of excellence1 for technical intelligence."9) Merritt Ruddock was not the only member of the family with CIA and Nazi ties. Ms Kimball1s father, according to a note found in the Belinda Schultz file, "Colonel Kimball of Chattanooga, Tennessee, had been a prime mover in the grown of the Post-WWI Ku Klux Klan." (The repetitious links to nazism in the testimony of Nicholas Schultz, a 7-year-old boy, recalls his mother's statement that Paul Schultz is a "white supremacist," and is obviously among friends.) She bonded with her castle and its environs, re-christened Cherokee Ranch, and lived like a European monarch. A tour guide told an AP reporter, "the house has a number of Portuguese tile murals and many examples of marquetry (an artistic inlaid wood design done on furniture). As she describes the lavish contents of several china cabinets, words like Dresden, Spode, Meissen and Waterford slip into the conversationS. That bed was built for Charles II, and he actually slept in it. This inlaid cabinet came from the court of Spain, and the pictures represent Aesop1s fables. The libraries are full of first editions, some quite old and valuable. Well, with names like Dickens and Thackeray on the bindings, one would think soS."10 Tweet Kimball died in 1999. She had been an active Republican. Kimball served on the Douglas County Planning Commission and the commissioners1 Water Advisory Board, as well as the board of the Douglas County Educational Foundation. She also spent 14 years on the board of the Denver Art Museum as accessions chairman. She was the local matriarch of local Republican party politics and frequently played hostess to the Douglas County Republican caucus.11 "Kimball1s castle and ranchland provided an extravagant vehicle for her varied pursuits," the local County News-Press noted in her obituary last January, "wildlife conservation, a vast, eclectic art collection, politics, innovative ranching, royal relationships and storied social events."12 2.) Supporting Evidence of Child Sex Ring Involvement As Calhoun mentioned, in March of this year, Boulder detectives flew to San Luis Obispo, California, to interview Mary Bienkowski, a licensed family therapist. Bienkowski claimed to have information pertaining to the JonBenét Ramsey murder investigation. The woman said that her mother's godfather is Fleet White, a friend of John Ramsey. The therapist had urged police in Boulder to interview her client: ÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐ Bienkowski: Client gave Boulder police names of people who are witnesses in JonBenét's death By Christopher Anderson Camera Staff Writer A private therapist said Friday she stands behind her client who claims to have crucial information that could help investigators in the death of JonBenét Ramsey. Mary Bienkowski, a licensed marriage, family and child counselor, said her client gave Boulder police specific names of individuals who are witnesses in the killing of JonBenét as well as ongoing sexual and physical abuse of other children. "If they do their job and investigate what needs to be investigated, the rest of the pieces will fall into place, and nobody is going to like what they find out," she said. "This person wouldn't be coming forward and risking everything if it were not because she wanted the abuse to stop and wanted to protect other children." Bienkowski said she has treated her client for the past 10 years for trauma endured as a repeated victim of sexual assault. Because her client had information that a widespread sex ring could have been behind the Dec. 26, 1996, strangulation and beating death of 6-year-old JonBenét, she encouraged the woman to take the information to authorities. JonBenét was found in the basement of her family's Boulder home. Her parents, John and Patsy, are the focus of a police investigation, although the couple have denied involvement in their daughter's death. After 13 months of investigating the case, a Boulder grand jury disbanded in October without charges being filed. During an interview Friday with the Daily Camera at a downtown San Luis Obispo coffee shop, Bienkowski blasted the Boulder Police Department for not actively investigating the list of people she said her client believes may have knowledge of who killed JonBenét. She would not divulge the names of those thought to be involved, saying that information should first be given to law enforcement officialsS. The Whites have not returned phone calls from the Daily Camera. John Ramsey's attorney has declined to comment on the new information. ÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐÐ Boulder police questioned Bienkowski's client in Colorado for five hours. The FBI interviewed her as well. Detectives also contacted her family and interviewed some of them in California. And then the whole matter was dropped. Bienkowski lost faith in the police and refused to cooperate any further.13 Who left warnings on her answering machine? The Daily Times-Call in Longmont, Colorado reported in March that a reliable witness "identified the voices as [those] of two women [among others] accused of victimizing the now-37-year-old [informant]. The woman remains in hiding." The anonymous callers told Bienkowski: 1. "Hello Mary. This is a very interested party in regards to [your client's] welfare. [Her] past and her future are of no, of no concern to you. She made an error in judgment when she came to see you and you have caused her nothing but pain and suffering. Her main concern now is her new husband and her family. She has started a life and is going to be moving as far away from you as possible. She belongs with her family and nobody else. She is off limits to you." 2. [Caller Two]: "Hello. Leave [your client] alone. We take care of our own. Everything. And nothing is any of your business." 3. [Caller Two] "Hello. It's high time that you caught on that [the informant] doesn't have time for your foolishness. Thank you." 4. ]Caller Two] "[She] is going on an extended vacation with her family and while there will seek medical care for her problems. [The woman] has forgotten more than you will ever know." 5. [Caller Two] "Hello. Sticks and stones may break our bones, but words will never hurt us. So leave [her] alone. It's against the law to disturb the peace. Don't forget it."14 The statement of the informant that JonBenet was killed in a sadistic sex game was upheld independently by forensic specialist Dr. Cyril Wecht, who studied the autopsy file and concluded that JonBenet's abuse occurred over a period of time. Wecht: "This evidence of abuse, tied literally and figuratively to the cords around her neck and wrist, was enough to draw the conclusion that a sick sex game had gone awry." But the medical evidence "so far suggested that the vaginal penetration had been a carefully controlled, limited situation Ð not a savage sexual assaultS. While the attacker was applying the perverted use of the garrote that pinched the vagus nerve in her neck and eventually shut down her heart and lungs, the young prey had suddenly turned lifeless without explanation Ð perhaps literally in her abuser's arms. Wasn't it likely that the shocked and panicking molester had shaken JonBenet in a futile attempt to return her to consciousness? A few anxiety-driven shakes and a 'wake up! Wake up!' had failed to restore her to life, but had inflicted the bruises to the temporal lobes of the brain."15 A panel of pediatric experts assembled from all parts of the country states unanimously that JonBenet had injuries "consistent with prior trauma and sexual abuse." The medical affidavits referred to "past violation of the vagina," "chronic abuse," "evidence of both acute injury and chronic sexual abuse."16 Author Stephen Singular, a Boulder native, believed so strongly that organized pedophilia and child porn lurked behind the murder of the child that he published a book exploring the sex ring angle, Presumed Guilty. According to Singular's publisher, "some highlights of the book suggest that one or both of the Ramsey parents unknowingly exposed their daughter to danger that fateful Christmas night," and reminds, significantly, "human DNA found on her clothing matched nothing found in the Ramsey home"17 Evan Ravitz and Bob MacFarland, Boulder political activists who shared Singular's perspective on the case, gave eight of the grand jurors hearing testimony regarding the death of JonBenet Ramsey excerpts of Singular's book, theorizing that that the girl may have been killed by someone involved in a child pornography ring. Ravitz and MacFarland were cited with contempt of court. Ravitz, wearing a crumpled purple T-shirt, explained to District Judge Roxanne Bailin that the leakers planned on petitioning the D.A.'s office to allow them to testify before the grand jury, and present evidence of corruption in the city, including drug dealing and child pornography possibly "related to the slaying and handling of the Ramsey case." Child porn is "an important line of investigation that we hear Hunter has stayed away from," Ravitz told Judge Bailin.18 But homicide detectives considered this angle a "side theory," yet have acknowledge that the killer "may have been involved in a child pornography ring that operated in or around Boulder and had earmarked JonBenet as a likely subject." The connection to child pornography with child sex murders is by no means original. In 1997, Jeremy Strohmeyer, 18, stalked a seven-year-old girl in a Las Vegas casino before murdering her in a restroom. Strohmeyer was an admitted collector of child pornography. "If the pornography connection is true," the Internet Crime Library observes, "then the murder may have been committed by more than one person as part of a conspiracy."19 The market in Colorado for child prostitution and pornography is a relatively large silent minority. In 1995, the Colorado Department of Human Services filed 5,085 cases of sexual abuse of the 7,931 referred to the agency. Of these,1,160 victims were abused in the state. But the department may investigate a tiny fraction of the actual cases. One-half of one percent of children report sexual abuse, according to Dr. Richard D. Krugman, dean of the University of Colorado Medical School and director of the C. Henry Kemp Center for Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect.20 A.) A Brotherhood In 1997, the Boulder PD contacted Dale Yeager and Denise Knoke at Seraph, Inc. in Berwyn, Pennsylvania Ð a security consulting firm summarized in sales brochures as "an international company [with] extensive sources throughout Europe, South America, the Middle East, Asia, Eastern Europe, Russia and Africa. Our associates are investigative professionals and former intelligence officers" Ð and asked them to submit an analysis of the ransom note. Yeager and Knoke claimed without hesitation that Patsy Ramsey was the author, joining the chorus of police and tabloid reporters who kept at the parents, and reported that Psalm 118:27b, interpreted as the source of the $118,000 ransom demand Ð "Decorate the festival with leafy boughs and bind the sacrifices to be offered with thick cords to the horns of the altar" Ð is commonly cited by "white supremacists," who "use the redemption and sacrifice ideas to form a justification for killingS." Despite the neo-nazi nuance, Yeager and Knoke were positively certain that KonBenet's mother forged the kidnap letter. "Our conclusion," Yeager offered, "is that you are investigating a child's murder with ritualistic overtonesS. Strangulation and sexual assault are most commonly seen in sadomasochism between heterosexual and homosexual adults. "21 On February 27, 2000, Yeager explained to a CBS 2 News reporter, "What we believe was happening in Patsy's mind was that her daughter was losing control, becoming a wild rebel. She felt (her daughter) was becoming evil."22 Patsy Ramsey did not exactly fit the white supremacist profile, and she certainly wasn't known to participate in "ritual murder." Paul Schultz, not incidentally, rings the bell on both counts. He is a member, according to the interviewers of Belinda Schultz, of a "heterodox Christian" cult with Nazi leanings that found its way into the intelligence establishment via the German presence at Tweet Kimball's castle in Sedalia. The occult Brotherhood of the White Temple, as this sect was known, survives and has reportedly evolved into an underground terrorist cell. The same "faction" that warned Mary Bienkowski to back off? Police investigating the Ramsey case also received warnings. Blood was splashed on Detective Linda Arndt's front door. The mutilated carcass of a cat was left on Steve Thomas's front lawn (if his statements have any credibilty, given the flagrant distortions in his book on the case, clearly contrived to widen the unbrella of suspicion that has hung over the parents since the smears began). Sergeant Bob Wilson was at home when four high-powered rounds were fired through his bedroom window and nearly hit him. After these events, "there was no follow-up by the police department" Steve Thomas complains, "which apparently regarded bullets, blood and dead cats as minor" 23 Belinda Schultz has tied her ex-husband to a cultic, "white-supremicist" terrorist underground with domestic intelligence connections and the murder of JonBenet Ramsey Ð but despite his resemblance to the killer's profile, Paul Schultz has not been asked for a sample of his hand-writing. B.) The Belgium Syndrome The behavior of law enforcement officials and the media has been odd since the 911 call. John Ramsey was the CEO of a key militaqry-industrial subsidiary, Lockheed, and his daughter had been murdered by a group that claimed to "represent a small foreign faction" (Brotherhood of the White Temple?) Ordinarily, the "Lindbergh Law" requires "rebuttable presumption" in a high-profile kidnap, particularly one pulled off by terrorists fronting for a "foreign faction," a widely overlooked point raised by journalist Donald Freed, author of Killing Time, a forensic study of the O.J. Simpson case. Notification of the FBI in a murder case involving terrorists is mandatory, and officers in Boulder did contact Washington. But the Bureau did not respond.24 Freed reports that someone in a lofty position assured the FBI and Lockheed Martin Security "prior to the 911 call Œthat any report coming from Boulder "would not affect 'national security,'" and directed to "let the police handle it."25 Freed coined the phrase "Belgium Syndrome" after the recent refusal of Belgian officials and the justice system to respond to a series of child murders, "not because they were involved in the murders, but because they were involved in their own way in pornography, child sexuality and related elements, some of which are not even illegal but all of which would be death sentences for their careers." Fleet White, in his letter "to the people of Colorado," maintained: "It is our firm belief that the District Attorney and others intend to use the Grand Jury and its secrecy in an attempt to protect their careers and also serve the conflicting interests of powerful, influential and threatening people who have something to hide or protect."26 "Conflicting interest" may explain the inertia of detectives in Boulder when the photo of the young beauty contestant turned up in the home of a child pornographer in Columbus, Ohio Ð suspected of involvement in the abduction of another Colorado girl. James Partin, 35, was arrested in December, 1997 for selling child pornography on the Net. Police searched Partin's home and found a newspaper clipping about the 1983 kidnap of Beth Miller, 14, and a map of Idaho Springs marked with several X's. The girl vanished after a jog near her Idaho Springs home, and Partin lived in the area at the same time. Boulder police announced that they would contact the Colorado Bureau of Investigation to learn more about the Ramsey photo in Partin's collection, but a local newspaper reported that they "do not believe that Partin had any involvement" in the slaying. "It's not a high priority," police spokeswoman Leslie Aaholm assured reporters.27 Did the DA's reluctance to question Partin about the JonBenet picture suggest an unwillingness to solve the case? Pornographic photos of JonBenet were posted on the Internet.28 In his August 6, 1998 resignation letter, Boulder Detective Steve Thomas openly accused then police chief Tom Koby and other officials of sabotaging the case: "During the investigation detectives would discover, collect, and bring evidence to the district attorney's office, only to have it summarily dismissed or rationalized as insignificant. The most elementary of investigative efforts, such as obtaining telephone and credit card records, were met without support, search warrants denied. The significant opinions of national experts were casually dismissed or ignored by the district attorney's office, even the experienced FBI were waved aside." Thomas was ordered not to question certain witnesses, "and all but dissuaded from pursuing particular investigative efforts. Polygraphs were acceptable for some subjects, but others seemed immune from such requests. Innocent people were not "cleared", publicly or otherwise, even when it was unmistakably the right thing to do, as reputations and lives were destroyed. Some in the district attorney's office, to this day, pursue weak, defenseless, and innocent people in shameless tactics that one couldn't believe more bizarre if it were made up." C.) Lawrence Schiller & the Designated Patsy (Ramsey) Denver reporter Joe Calhoun takes aim at Lawrence Schiller, the made-for-tv "expert" who denounces all sex-ring allegations in shrill terms. "Schiller, along with talk show hosts and the more 'responsible press,' appear to be preparing the public for an indictment of Patsy Ramsey for the murder of her child," Calhoun says. The patsy would be Patsy. "According to a source in Boulder, the script reads that the much physically and mentally traumatized Patsy Ramsy went to her daughter's room that night and found that she had wet the bed and in a fit of exasperative rage struck the child and accidently killed her and then was assisted by her husband to try to cover up the crime. " The bed-wetting scenario, repeated in best-selling books on the case and many a talk show, is insupportable upon a moment's reflection: it entails a belief, Calhoun points out, that Patsy Ramsey "stuck her child in the head, killing her, and then tied a garrote around her neck and sexually violated her daughter's corpse to cover up the crime."29 Was it the Belgium Syndrome that inspired Boulder DA Alex Hunter to leak information to the tabloids to destroy his own investigators? "The former lead investigator on the JonBenét Ramsey case," the Denver Post reported on February 16, 1999, "confirmed allegations that Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter enlisted the help of a tabloid reporter to discredit him. Former Boulder police Commander John Eller, who now lives in Florida, said he knew that Hunter had encouraged Globe reporter Jeff Shapiro to dig up dirt on him." In response, Hunter had no comment. "We're not going to get drawn into it," he said. "I simply do not want to get into any kind of discussion that could jeopardize the integrity of what we're doing."30 Another critic of Lawrence Sshiller is John Judge, a JFK assassination archivist in Washington, D.C.. Judge is convinced that the celebrated author is an intelligence asset: "It was clear to me in interviews when [Norman] Mailer was asked why he chose to do this book on Oswald, he based it on the fact that Lawrence Schiller had gotten private access to the Minsk KGB files on Oswald and was willing to share those with Mailer [for Oswald's Tale]. It's hard for me to imagine that Schiller was able to get those kind of documents based on his access to the KGB there or some sort of salesmanship. I would think that in order to crack that nut, you would have to have some links to current KGB and US intelligence interconnections. Schiller goes back at least as far as 1967 as the source to the very first character assassination attack on the critical community in a book called Scavengers and Critics of the Warren Commission, by Warren Lewis. The subtitle of that book is `Based on an Investigation by Lawrence Schiller.'"31 Did the Belgium Syndrome infect key evidence, cause it to disappear from a paranormal Boulder evidence room? In 1998, the AP reported, "Cops Lost Ramsey Evidence." Seems "authorities reportedly have lost evidence in the murder investigation of JonBenet Ramsey, forcing them to retrace their steps. Detectives have told friends of the Ramseys they no longer have evidence from some nine interviews and palm prints that the friends had given earlier. In one case, evidence from two interviews conducted the day after the 6-year-old's body was found was missing just two weeks later." Naturally, "earlier reports of lost evidence were refuted by police."32 And the so-called "mainstream" press has been manipulated as badly as the tabloids. Chuck Green, an award-winning, 32-year veteran of the Denver Post, believes 'the evidence points to the Ramseys' being involved in their daughter's death." So he says, but University of Colorado journalism professor Michael Tracey co-produced a documentary highly critical of the media coverage. Tracy: "Boulder law enforcement put a ring in Chuck Green's nose and led him around on a leash. Law enforcement used the media to build a case that law enforcement knew it couldn't construct in court."33 Hal Haddon, retained by the Ramseys', complained that unknown police sources leaked false, damning information to the media Ð information "exculpatory" to the Ramseys was not leaked.34 The Boulder Police Department maintains a tight lid on the case. A very tight lid. Officials instructed detectives to keep the investigation to themselves from the start. Detectives are not permitted to take laptops home. One detective, Sgt. Larry Mason, was removed from the case after speaking to reporters. The police refused to release the offense report, the first paperwork filed by officers responding to a call. They suppressed the report legally by filing the report among the detectives' investigative notes. The BPD has also declined to let go of a transcript of Patsy Ramsey's 911 call to report her daughter missing. The tape was also kept from public scrutiny by placing it among the investigative files. A all search warrants, affidavits and inventories involving searches of the Ramseys' Boulder home have been sealed by court order. Even JonBenet's autopsy report was sealed tight. James J. Brodell, a Metropolitan State College of Denver journalism professor and an expert on Colorado's public records, finds the extreme secrecy "excessive." Without full disclosure, he believes, "the public can't judge how well police are doing their jobs."35 But search warrant documents released by court order state the the county coroner concluded during the autopsy that the girl had been "sexually molested." Detective Linda Arndt attended the autopsy, and reported that Boulder County Coroner John Meyer told her that JonBenet "had received an injury consistent with digital penetration of her vagina," 36 Alex Hunter's former shell of "integrity" cracked when it slipped that he had tried to exclude a key witness from testifying before the Grand Jury, one who would side with the Ramseys. Last March, the Rocky Mountain News learned that Hunter's prosecutors attempted to block Lou Smit, the homicide detective hired by the Ramseys, from appearing in court: "Hunter's attempt last year to bar a witness from testifying S appears to be unprecedented among metro-area prosecutors." No D.A. in Colorado, to their recollection, had ever gone so far as to obtain a court order to exclude a witness: "I've never heard of it before," said Jefferson County DA Dave Thomas. Prosecutors may advise a Grand Jury, "but they do not have total control." Bob Grant, the DA in Adams County, snorted, "folks" only prevent a witness of Smit's stature from taking the stand when they have ":a particular axe to grind but don't have evidence and just want to spread uncorroborated personal opinion."37 And so the first casualty danced another last waltz ÐÐÐNotesÐÐÐ 1. Joe Calhoun interview, March 22, 2000. 2, AP release, " Police Accuse Record Producer of Sexual Abuse," January 30, 1996. Huey Meaux was sentenced to fifteen years in prison, but became eligible for parole two years later. Meaux, who once worked with B.J, Thomas, Mickey Gilley, Ronnie Milsap Hank Williams and Freddie Fender, was moved from Houston to the prison1s pre-release unit in Lockhart in March, 1998. Some local officials were shocked by this development. District Judge Mike McSpadden commented, "Two or three years is not a substantial almount of time." 3, George Glynn, "Woman sues producer, alleging years of abuse," Houston Chronicle, February 1, 1996. 4.. US Treasury release NR 96-10, "OCC Fines Banker and Seeks Prohibition from Banking: Hearing in March," January 29, 1996. 5. See Leonard Louis Capaldi appeal, writ of habeas corpus, Sixth Circuit file. Also, Daniel Brandt1s NameBase, "social assoiciates chart," file:/// Macintosh%20HD/Desktop%20Folder/Documents/Ramsey %20Case/Jerry%20J.%20Moore%20&%20Associates/Moore% 20Links%20Chart. 6. Susan Casey, "The lady of the castle," Douglas Coiunty News-Press, May 8, 1996. Brandt. Also, Pete Brewton, The Mafia, CIA and George Bush, SPI Books, 1992, for background on James Bath and well-heeled HoustonRepublicans. Brewton: "Jack Trotter, is listed as a reference on Bath1s resume. A source close to Bath said that Trotter was one of the Houstonians most responsible for introducing Bath around Houston and getting him wired into the right business circles. Bath and Lan Bentsen brokered a number of multi-thousand-acre tracts to syndications formed by Trotter, who was trustee for Senator Lloyd Bentsen1s blind trust." 7. Ralph McGehee1s CIABase Web site, http://webcom.com/~pinknoiz/covert/ ciabasesearch.html 8. Burton Hersh, The Old Boys: The American Elite and the Origins of the CIA, New York: Charles Scribner1s, 1992, p. 242. 9. Linda DuVal, "Splendor in the Rockies," Colorado Springs Gazette tour guide, 1999.. 10. Loring Wirbel, "Confronting the New Intelligence Establishment: Lessons from the Colorado Experience," The Textbook (an environmental quarterly), Southwest Research and Information Center, Fall 1996. 11. Casey. 12. Mike Colias, "County Says Goodbye to Tweet Kimbit.," obituary, Douglas County News-Press, January 20, 1999. 13. Christopher Anderson, "Ramsey Detectives off the California," Boulder Daily Camera, March 5, 2000. 14. B.J. Blasket, Daily Times Call, March 6, 2000. 15. Cyril Wecht, M.D., J.D., and Charles Bosworth, Jr., Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey? Onyx, 1998. 16. Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, New York: St. Martin's, 2000, p. 27. 17. Wendy Walker, New Millenium press release, Beverly Hills, CA, 1999. 18. Anonymous, "Duo cited for mailing Ramsey Chapters," Boulder Daily Camera, July 10, 1999, and Julie Poppen, "Judge gives stern warning to two who contacted jurors," Boulder Daily Camera, August 6, 1999. 19. Anonymous, "Main Event Ð The Murder of JonBenet Ramsey," The Crime Library, http://www.dark-horse.com/ramsey/Ramsey5.htm. 20. Elliot Zaret, "Atler Pursues Answers to Incest, Boulder Daily Camera, February 27, 1997, concerning police interviews with Marilyn Van Derbur Atler, a Boulder resident and former Miss America (1958) who recovered repressed memories of sexual abuse in 1991. 21. Dale Yeager, "Profile Report," Seraph, Inc., July 29, 2997. 22. Drew Griffin, interviewer, "A Perfect Murder? Part 1," CBS 2 News report, February 27, 2000. 23. Thomas, p. 180. 24. Joe Calhoun, "The Book and the JonBenet Ramsey Case: The Sins of 'Perfect Omission,'" Montelibre Monthly, March, 1999. 25. Calhoun, p. 13. 26. Ibid. 27. Anonymous, "JonBenet photo found in home of suspected Ohio pornographer, Boulder Daily Cameria, January 8, 1998. 28. Jameson's TimeLine Web site, http://jameson245.com/oddsandends.htm. 29. Calhoun article. 30. Karen Auge, "Detective accuses DA Hunter," Denver Post, February 16, 1999. 31. See Kenn Thomas, interviewer, Steamshovel Press, no. 14, 32. Anonymous, AP report, "Cops Lost Ramsey Evidence," February, 15, 1998. 33. Katherine Rosman, "JonBenet, Inc.," Brill's Content, February, 2000. 34. Mary George and Marilyn Robinson, "Shy cops did what they did," Denver Post, September 30, 1997. 35. Charlie Brennan, "Ramsey-case secrecy unusual," Rocky Mountain News, February 9, 1997. 36. George and Robinson. 37. John C. Ensslin, "Hunter's move puzzles legal experts," Rocky Mountain News, March 16, 2000. I don't see how this info excludes the Ramseys at all in the participation of her death. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Seashell" Posted by momo on 16:43:06 5/27/2000 I read this link last night. Lee2 posted it on the "Inside Job" thread. How about where it says that pornographic photos of JonBenet were posted on the internet? Huh? The person who posted this in the first place might have made a mistake but I have to wonder. And if this is true then why hasn't anyone done anything about it? I believe that people who delve into an investigation about child pornography had better be real careful. This is why I believe J&P have and will go to any lengths to have the public believe they had nothing to do with the murder of JonBenet. There is a deep, dark, dirty little secret behind JonBenet's murder and I believe that those secrets could implicate some higher ups that we've never even heard about. It's obvious these people's asses have been covered by people behind the scenes. As I think about JonBenet, I know she is in a better place. Anywhere where adults can not use and abuse her anymore is a better place. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Dear Seashell....." Posted by Slinky on 17:13:20 5/27/2000 You're one gutsy, brave lady to stand by your convictions knowing that such a thread started here may be less than popular. Thank You, dear Seashell, for bringing this article to our attention, especially for those of us that would be less inclined to chase down a URL now on this busy holiday weekend. I appreciate the fact that you channel your passion for justice for JBR in a calm, reasonable, constructive manner, Seashell. Heaven knows how very emotional this case has been for most of us here at JW for such a very long time now. IMO, this is a most worthwhile article to read ... very illuminating in alot of sordid ways to the horrors of what may very well be happening under our ever so upper middle class American noses. Even if some of us do not believe in a specific connection to JonBenet's murder itself and an organized pediphile ring, we still shouldn't rationally deny the possibility that they might indeed exist, even that some of the principal players in the JBR case, might have been involved in such abhorrant behavior separate and removed from JBR being murdered. This article is most newsworthy and enlightening moreso where the MW is concerned, IMHO, and as such should be seriously digested by those of us interested in her allegations about the very same things. I personally find it much more rational, for me anyway, to keep the possibilities of a child porn/pediphile ring and the implications of the MW separated for the most part, from JBR's murder. Although MW does alledge that many of the main people involved in some way in the JBR case, may also be involved in a very major way with such a child pedophile ring, it doesn't necessarily follow that these same people are "guilty through association", and JBR's murder must therefore be connected directly to the MW and her allegations. I tend to view the MW allegations as though they possibly might bear a relevance to JonBenet's murder, but also that it possibly might be a completely separate entity and crime of it's own. Only time will tell, because we publically have virtually no hard evidence to base such assumptions on without making a big leap of faith. We do however, have a very astute, and very tolerant and understanding webmistress here in Chris. Chris allows us the freedom to discuss these two separate crimes here in the format of the JonBenet Forum. She allows us the freedom to connect them if we believe they are connected; or to keep our discussions of MW, her allegations, and the possibility of a child pedophile ring separated from JBR's death, while still being able to draw upon the resources of having volumes of information already researched and archived of the common players. Thank you Chris, for maintaining your open mind, and your patience in the midst of some of our firestorms of discussions of these two things. Thank you Seashell, for bringing informative articles to our attention, and for our consideration while we're trying to formulate our case opinions. IMHO, as I've said, only time will tell, but it all deserves thorough investigations. OK ... I'm down off my soapbox now and will stop preaching. :-) Slinky [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Slinky" Posted by momo on 17:46:29 5/27/2000 I certainly hope the FBI investigation will uncover enough information to implicate several people in the abuse of MW. And then there is no telling what else they may find. Maybe that is why the Ramsey's don't trust them. Could be they hope that nothing comes up about them. Now THAT I would be worried about. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Hi Seashell and all" Posted by Msracoon on 18:10:01 5/27/2000 I was here earlier and took time to read the information that you posted. It is something that I had to really sit down and digest not something to sit and the computer and just read. Thank you for posting this. I will have no comments at this time because I cannot stand to say I told you so. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Credit" Posted by Seashell on 18:45:39 5/27/2000 goes to Irene and Lee 2. I didn't see it on the other thread. As you say, slinky, there may be no connection to what MW knows and JonBenet's murder, but things are a bit close for comfort aren't they? Maybe in trying to solve the murder, a huge child porn ring not involved in the murder will be uncovered. It certainly appears that people are going to a lot of time and trouble to NOT solve this crime. You know, I no longer think the BPD thinks this is a simple bedwetting gone awry crime. I think it may be a ruse to keep the public and the killer/s off guard. I'm not even sure ST believes it. When I read the above article, I couldn't help but think again about "Fast Eddie" and Boyles packet - and we all know what just happened to "Fast Eddie." Is this a simple murder or Bouldergate? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Reason to "Silence"..." Posted by johnlin on 19:26:31 5/27/2000 IMO, the chief culprits are and have been the 2 living adults, Dec. 26, 1996. The Killer & Accomplice can be found here. But, Seashell, there is so much compelling evidence of others' invlovment; thank you for your hard work in relaying those facts to us. With JonBenet's deterioration as evidenced by her last photos, her increased bedwetting and soiling, and trips to the school nurse, you can bet something was happening; on the increase. Patsy may well have seen in JonBenet a 'rebelling' against the whole pageant stuff, and her domineering mother. John may have seen a potential "leak". JonBenet's murder is really beginning to look like an act of "silencing" her to eternity rather than having her spill the beans. JR / PR may have also been willing accomplices in that they were carrying out "orders". [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Exactly, Seashell " Posted by Slinky on 19:47:38 5/27/2000 "Maybe in trying to solve the murder, a huge child porn ring not involved in the murder will be uncovered. It certainly appears that people are going to a lot of time and trouble to NOT solve this crime." So well said, Seashell. And, I'll take it even a step further and say that IF a child porn ring is discovered in trying to solve the JonBenet Ramsey Murder, and even IF it is not connected to JBR's death, than we still have the wonderful end result of at least another very hennous crime having been discovered and exposed in it's own right. Hopefully in this case too, the proper authorities will proceed to prosecute to the fullest such a horrible crime against children. Slinky [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "thinking" Posted by maundy on 20:19:35 5/27/2000 thanks, seashell. i have only been abe to browse the article. i would like to print it out to study. btw, MsR, do i assume this was your theory? edie posted somethig about the "bridal" chamber. lee2 about the meaning of "inside job." i put those together and came up with the possibility of a secret rom or a tunnel to, oh, say a nearby house. and maybe even a man willing to sell his daughter for a snuff film. wild speculation, i know. just as wil as looking at the initials for the Press Conference theme song and seeing BLT's for the SS (or blitzkrieg or something like that...) more on constantine, later [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "The the secret room in Charlevoix..." Posted by Holly on 21:08:16 5/27/2000 Remember the old man in a wheelchair that freaked out Patsy in Charlevoix? He told her that a young guy had been walking near the home the year before (I think prior to the murder) and told the old man that he was pissed at JR. He said he had been hired to build a "secret room" at the Charlevoix house. He was mad because JR backed out of the deal and owed money. Then he supposedly made a threat against JB. Drama Queen was so freaked she called Lou-ser in Boulder and he said call the Charlevoix police. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Child Porno" Posted by lake on 22:54:21 5/27/2000 Child sexual abuse is almost certainly connected to the murder of JBR. And is is very unlikley that any three of the Ramseys were molesters of little girls to the extent that the murder of JBR indicates the killer was. And about the only way that most who are stuck in the RDI mode can connect the Rs is to make up things about the Ramesy's character that have no foundation in fact. But the evidence seems to be coming to the surface that there were indeed people in Boulder on 12/25-26/96 to whom such a killing might not be all that foreign. And indeed some people that were in the company of the Ramseys and JBR such a profile might fit. And about the only solid reason the Ramsey parents are the prime suspects is that they were known to be in the house. But the fact that the BPD cannot place someone else in the house from the physical evidence does by no means preclude someone else from having commited this murder and convering their trail to a certain degree. And if the killer had been in the Ramsey home under innocent conditions pror to the murder, had been in close personal contact with JBR hours prior to the murder under what could be considered innocent conditions, the task of placing such a person at the crime scene on physical evidence would be very difficult indeed. However, there is no problem in placing the Rs at the crime scene, because that is were they lived. And beyond that, there is no conclusive evidence at all, known to the public, that conclusively connects the Rs to this crime. The media has printed a lot of fiction, and some of the cops have theories, but beyond that, nothing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "nothing at all" Posted by becky on 23:44:01 5/28/2000 >Child sexual abuse is almost certainly connected is very unlikley that >any three of the Ramseys were >molesters of little girls to the >extent that the murder of JBR >indicates the killer was. "to the extent that????" softening your stance abit..eh Lake? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Uh, lake..." Posted by Holly on 10:48:13 5/28/2000 What about the note? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "SBTC & Child Porn?" Posted by Anton on 22:45:16 5/27/2000 I don't see any direct connection between what I've found and the Ramsey case but there are certainly some interesting parallels, particularly when combined with this Alex Constantine information. Maybe this info inspired the note writer to put SBTC on the note, in combination with the strange staging. -------------------- http://www.sotramar.be/Company.html SBTC-SOTRAMAR BELGIUM SHIPPING - TRANSIT - ROAD TRANSPORT - CARGO HANDLING - AIRFREIGHT FORWARDING - PACKING - WAREHOUSING - CONSOLIDATION - INSURANCE Specialized in handling and transport of chemicals, SOTRAMAR became house-forwarder for several multinational chemical groups in Western Europe. S.B.T.C. was also founded in 1969 by the french COSITRAF-GROUP and was specialized in transport and export of iron and steel products. ATLAS SHIPPING AND FORWARDING was taken over in 1992 by SOTRAMAR and was a well-known forwarding company specialized in traffics of carpets, textiles and imports of coffee, cacao and cotton products. In 1992 the activities of the three companies were merged in one new entity [ironically similar to how Access Graphics was formed] S.B.T.C. - SOTRAMAR N.V. During the last 5 years the company regularly realized a turnover of about US$ 30.000.000 and was situated at the top of the list of the belgian transport and forwarding agents. I don't know of any connection at all between this company and Access Graphics or John Ramsey. But when this info is combined with the next piece, it could be that the ransom note writer saw the following articles in TIME magazine and, if John was making moves to connect with SBTC SOTRAMAR she used those initials to point to this Belgian sex scandal, which might reflect what the note writer knew was going on in Boulder. It's a stretch and I don't necessarily believe there's a tie-in but it is interesting anyway. --------------------------------------------------TIME.com archives DECEMBER 2, 1996 VOL. 148 NO. 25 THE NIGHTMARE GOES ON A FRESH SCANDAL FURTHER SHAKES UP THE BELGIANS BY JAY BRANEGAN/BRUSSELS ...Since the summer, it [Belgium] has been rocked by a series of lurid revelations. They include tales of an exceptionally repellent child-sex torture-murder ring, the arrest of a former minister for the Mafia-style political assassination of a rival, official corruption and bribery, all topped off by law-enforcement bungling on a grand scale.... The country is still shaken by the discovery last August of a child-kidnapping ring that preyed on young girls. A 12-year-old and a 14-year-old who had been abducted and raped were freed from a macabre underground dungeon in a home of the accused ringleader, Marc Dutroux, near the southern city of Charleroi. Police dug up the bodies of four other girls, ages 8 to 19, missing for more than a year. ...Vital information about the original abductions was withheld by competing investigators, and Dutroux allegedly had high-level protection. ...Belgium has long been run by spoils-sharing governments that swept problems under the rug with repeated applications of the famed compromis a la belge, or Belgian compromise....where old, snug interrelationships covered over patterned corrosion.... TIME International September 2, 1996 Volume 148, No. 11 THE TERROR AND PITY AFTER TWO KIDNAPPED GIRLS ARE SAVED FROM A HELLHOLE AND TWO OTHERS ARE FOUND DEAD, BELGIUM ERUPTS IN FURY AT A SEX OFFENDER WHOSE SCHEMES AUTHORITIES DID NOT TAKE SERIOUSLY BY JAMES WALSH Police...dug up Julie's and Melissa's bodies in the backyard of a house owned by Marc Dutroux, 39, an unemployed electrician who had no fewer than six houses in and around Charleroi, some 70 km southwest of Liege....Dutroux also disclosed a hideaway where two other abducted girls, ages 12 and 14, were still alive. They emerged pale and tearful from a homemade dungeon hidden behind a cellar cabinet. ...Europeans in general recoiled in horror from the tale. It exposed a macabre underground of child molestation that most people like to think could not exist--at least not in placid, enlightened Europe. What revolted public opinion most, however, was the way authorities had so mishandled these cases. They had long known about the prime suspect and his prior record, could have seen that he lived far beyond his ostensible means and even searched his premises more than once. Yet they inquired only in a desultory way, and they cold-shouldered the victimized families' anxious inquiries and offers to help. ...Late last year they [police] had visited the house where Melissa and Julie were being held captive. The visitors left when Dutroux told them the children's voices they heard were those of his own kids. ...Throughout 14 months of searching for the little girls, their parents had complained so outspokenly about police foot dragging and seeming indifference that the case became a national cause celebre. ...[36-year-old Jean-Denis Lejeune, Julie's father,] said, "We were told from the beginning that pedophile rings do not exist here. Other investigators from other jurisdictions were eager to collaborate, but we were told this could be a sensitive issue to the investigators already working on the case." Although the families felt sure their children were alive, detectives argued that the abductions were probably the work of a lone psycho who had disposed of the bodies. ..."It's clear that internationally--and that includes Belgium--for sex trafficking in children to work, offenders have to have protection. There must be political and financial support," said child advocate Marie-France Botte, Belgium's leading campaigner against child prostitution. "It wouldn't be surprising to discover that important people in Belgium and in Europe are implicated in the system." ---------------------------------------- TIME International September 2, 1996 Volume 148, No. 11 PREYING ON THE YOUNG ALL OVER THE WORLD, BOYS AND GIRLS ARE ABUSED IN A VICIOUS SEX TRADE NOW ABETTED BY COMPUTER NETWORKS. WHAT CAN WE DO TO FIGHT THE SCOURGE? BY THOMAS SANCTON If the repulsive crimes of Marc Dutroux prove anything, it is that the brutal, often murderous child-sex trade is not limited to impoverished developing countries but reaches its tentacles into the heart of the most highly advanced and supposedly civilized societies. "What it demonstrates," says Edda Ivan-Smith of the organization Save the Children, based in London, "is that even in what seems like quite a stable, safe country such as Belgium, these things happen--because we keep letting them happen." ...Along with Thailand, other popular Asian destinations for sex tourists are Cambodia, Sri Lanka and the Philippines... ...Western countries contribute to the problem by providing the bulk of the sex tourists--more than 250,000 a year to Asia alone, according to one estimate. "Over the past eight years, there have been some 240 arrests of child abusers in these countries," says ECPAT's Ron O'Grady. "Of those arrested, 24% were Americans and 16% were Germans, while Britons and Australians each accounted for 13%." ...To Americans, the Belgian atrocities were likely to recall the tragic case of Megan Kanka, 7, a New Jersey girl who was raped and murdered in 1994 by a convicted multiple sex offender who had moved across the street from her after his release from prison. Public outrage over the incident led to the federal passage this year of "Megan's Law," calling for local authorities to inform neighbors when a sex criminal, newly free, moves into their community. ...To be sure, not all or even most pedophiles are psychopathic murderers. "Pedophiles are generally not violent aggressors," says Lieut. Agnes Fournier de Saint-Maur, a specialist for Interpol, the international police organization. "They are rather charmers, good fathers, people above all suspicion." They are in fact far more likely to be discreet consumers of child pornography than rapists and stranglers. ...In Mexico, where possession is legal but corruption of minors under 16 is not, police last month broke up a child-pornography ring with 4,500 mostly U.S. clients; officials say it was part of a burgeoning cross-border commerce in such sordid materials that has followed the signing of the North American Free Trade Agreement. ...With the availability of cheap camcorders, it has become increasingly easy for pedophiles to make their own porn videos. In Germany, where some 11,500 child-porn items were confiscated in the past 18 months, officials describe "snuff porn" cassettes, in which actual killings take place. Again, I'm not saying that what happened in Belgium has any relationship at all with what happened in Boulder. I'm just thinking that what if the ransom note writer (who I believe is Patsy) was reading TIME magazine that autumn and read these articles about the sex scandal, and what if John and Access Graphics were putting together a deal for SBTC-SOTRAMAR to handle shipping and whatever in Europe (probably completely unconnected to the sex scandal; I've seen absolutely no connection between SBTC-SOTRAMAR and anyone involved in the sex scandal). What if Patsy had a plan figured out and for a kicker, ended the note with Victory! and SBTC, a not-subtle reference to the sex scandal and a not-subtle tie-in between the purpose of the supposed kidnapping and sexual misbehavior going on in Boulder, something John might not have been directly involved in but could be used as leverage against him in some way. Most likely, this is all just a strange coincidence, as is the Alex Constantine info. But all of this combined with MW's information sure opens more doors. IMO. Anton [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Anton." Posted by Holly on 11:04:05 5/28/2000 Superb. Was TIME in the hellhole? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "hellholes all over" Posted by maundy on 00:04:01 5/28/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 00:04:01, 5/28/2000 holly, there was also all tat reconstruction work done at the hellhole. anton, verrry interesting, esp that there was snuff films found in the cild porn cases. i read a book by a man who infiltrated a neo-nazi group where he was shown a snuff film of a 10 year old girl. as to sbtc, i wonder if it could be some sort of recognition code. here's e of my more off-the-wall theories. i was looking for a cabala/nazi/luciferian connection to sbtc. there are web sites that list hidden words in the bible. one is Genesis 28:15:16, VHShBThYCh (english correspondens of Hebrew letters, i.e. Ch is Chet). Notice SBTC? The hidden word is MQDSh or Mikdash, temple I believe. in my noes i have "ALKHEMI (page w/ MQDSh) God's decision to dstroy the Bet ha'Mikdash". [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Uh Oh" Posted by Seashell on 01:52:21 5/28/2000 I shouldn't have read Anton's excellent and terribly disturbing post just before bed. I'm wondering if there are any more than 30 or 40 healthy people on the planet. My prayer is that we reach the critical mass soon that Chopra and others talk about, so that the consciousness of humankind will be forever raised above this horrible perversity. I think we should take these 2 articles apart, paragraph by paragraph. I noticed how these sicko pedophiles are upstanding clean looking members of the community. And how they're protected polically and by law enforcement. I also noticed how people in high places refuse to acknowledge that these things exist. I think we should send these 2 articles to Boyles and we need to start opening our minds to this happening in dear sweet green, number one small place to live Boulder. Boulder is a mecca for hard drugs; can child porn be far behind? I still want to know why the dictionary was opened and the corner of the page pointing to the word incest. ( did anyone ask Thomas what he thought of that?) Doesn't sound like an intruder to me, unless JBR had several mummies and daddies. No siree, those whacky Rams aren't off the hook by any means. In fact, I think they may have swallowed it this week. And mutilated cats, gunshots thru the window and blood from a chicken simply do not sound like a simple little murder. It sounds mafia-like to me, like the horsehead in the bed. If this thing really is big, it's likely the mafia is in on it. Kiddie porn rings are fortune makers and the mafia likes money. Beware of money, sex and power. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "If i stop posting suddenly..." Posted by maundy on 01:25:26 5/28/2000 i was looking up "blitzkrieg". from german blitz meaning lightning. you do know the SS insignia was two runes repreenting a lightning bold...don't you? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "BLTZKR>...." Posted by Pedro on 01:41:36 5/28/2000 .....that's the term use by the Germans to define their military strategy based on fast invasion of other countries by Cavallery Divisions (tanks) and fast units of infantry supported by air force on its advance as they did in Poland and other places. Pedro/MidWest [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "I couldn't resist . . . " Posted by lee2 on 01:49:37 5/28/2000 http://www.alexhunter-photography.com/ information on ownership can be found at www.register.com [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "pedro seashell" Posted by maundy on 04:49:28 5/28/2000 pedro why di dyou write it BLTZKR? seashell, i do believe mS be right, and de lght beginning to shine id dem mines o' all his chilluns... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Seashell, Slinky and Anton" Posted by Morgan on 07:44:59 5/28/2000 Seashell--thanks so much for posting this incredible article Slinky, you go girl! Anton--brilliant post. IMO, you are really an to something. Sometimes the bizarre stories are true. WWII and the Nazis weren't all that long ago. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Morgan." Posted by Holly on 11:06:35 5/28/2000 I think lee2 on the INSIDE JOB thread made this find originally... Post #4 Sea re-posted [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "lee2" Posted by hareen on 08:04:53 5/28/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:04:53, 5/28/2000 That's hilarious! This is an interesting thread. Maybe I'm crazy, but I can't help finding things in these articles very intriguing. Still ... I'm with you, Seashell, I keep coming back to that dictionary page. And I can't believe it was turned up for any innocent reason. Not on that particular day. And it's hard to fit it to a scenario involving more than J & P. Hard. But maybe not impossible. I keep wondering about the clues that point in all directions -- JAR's blanket in the suitcase, Burke's knife, fibers from a jacket Patsy would be unlikely to be wearing that late at night, a ransom note, molestation and a garrote. Could it all be to confuse? (If so, someboy sure did a good job!) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Yep" Posted by Seashell on 09:56:02 5/28/2000 "I keep wondering about the clues that point in all directions -- JAR's blanket in the suitcase, Burke's knife, fibers from a jacket Patsy would be unlikely to be wearing that late at night, a ransom note, molestation and a garrote." The clues point to everyone but JR. Now if Pats did this alone, why would she point to Burke, JAR and herself and NOT JR? Burke certainly didn't do all this murder and staging. Who's left but JR, cleverly pointing in many directions BUT himself. Could it all be to confuse? Yes, I believe so, and it worked. (If so, someboy sure did a good job!)" Another possibility is that this was the dirty deed of 2 or more men who, to point away from themselves, pointed at innocents within the family - Burke and PR. All I strongly feel is that this was the diabolical sex murder by a males or males who would stop at nothing to conceal his/their identities. Yes, someone did a very good job in obfuscating; someone who knew a lot about damage control; someone who may have had to do something like this before (now that's a new thought); someone who just may have friends in high places. At least that's the way the MO of the crime is looking more and more. And even tho I've always suspected it was a more male crime than female, it's looking more every day like a very male crime. This could also be an incest/pedophilia crime. The two are not mutually exclusive. Beware of money, sex and power. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 72. "PR" Posted by peel on 23:38:54 5/29/2000 Remember Sophie's Choice? What would you do if you're only remaining child would be tortured and killed if you didn't cooperate? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Seashell." Posted by Holly on 10:57:57 5/28/2000 Here is yet another reason to focus on the Whites. Now I understand why Beckner descibed them as,"morally empty". They are. They know EXACTLY what happened to JB. Why does ST martyr these people? They are in it up to their eyeballs. And the Ramseys are too. How do you take a living, breathing child on Christmas night, alive at 10pm, beaten, skull cracked, sexually molested, garroted to death, 120 minutes later -- and tell any critical thinker that the adults at each end of her final journey know NOTHING? They knew EVERYTHING. Go back and re-read the BPD MW press release. The BPD already knew this stuff three years ago. They knew about Nicholas Schultz. They knew about Paul Schultz. And they knew anout Fleet's agenda. For the present the physical link they need isn't there. But is will be sooner or later. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "what are you saying???" Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:03:59 5/28/2000 Holly, Seashell, HELP! Are you implying that FW and JR TOGETHER killed JB? Was FW&PW handwriting taken? Polygraphed?(ST claims many were pg'd, but who?) Please spell it out you guys, I just don't get it thru my thick skull:-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "What I'm saying is that" Posted by Holly on 11:11:23 5/28/2000 this is a well researched article. I found maybe one error (wasn't it Whitson, not Wilson)? It tells me that the BPD already knew the sex ring potential in 1997. It suggests that Beckner described the phony Whites as "morally empty" because, as case chief, he knew all these leads in 1997. 120 minutes, EdieP. The Whites and Rams at one end of JB's final journey, the Rams at the other. No one has convinced me that this was a journey interrupted by an intruder/stranger. The Whites and the Ramseys know. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "therefore," Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:18:59 5/28/2000 so does Burke and Daphne and every other child present at the White's? Is THAT why Burke was ripped from his sleep to shuffle off to the White's? Or, did the R's have company AFTER they returned to the Hellhole, and Burke was already in bed? He says (yeah, right) the last time he saw JB was when they got home and she walked by herself up the stairs. 120 minutes is not very long, you're right. It certainly is not long enough to sleep soundly thru a house invasion, or a scream. Was Daphne White questioned? How is it none of the children have said anything about that night without making a mistake? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "There are so" Posted by Holly on 11:38:31 5/28/2000 may clues in the hearts and recollections of the children -- but they won't talk. Remember, supposedly FW hated AH becaue of this false assumption that Daphne's pic had been given to a tab by Hunter. White was literally ALL OVER the littlest witnesses. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "or did you mean" Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:44:49 5/28/2000 his little "friends"? Holly, do you have a feeling FW & JR are still in communication? PS for the record, I rate this gossip at water cooler level,lol [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Click here to see Cherokee Castle/Ranch" Posted by Holly on 10:46:42 5/28/2000 http://www.dclink.com/castles/CHEROKEE.HTM [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Yes Holly" Posted by Msracoon on 11:10:11 5/28/2000 I saw that last night. Reminds me of dracula's castle in those old movies from whence I was a child. Ewwwww. Such a creepy visual as well as in my gut. "Some ping vewy wong." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "MsRac." Posted by Holly on 11:13:15 5/28/2000 Wonder if JB ever visited that castle .. Nicholas Schultz, the niece of MW? This story has many gothic elements. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "OH NO!" Posted by Jellyjaws on 11:22:33 5/28/2000 Gee, I'm so sorry, but I have no patience with this stuff. Why be taken in so easily by "junior high" type gossip? "MYSTERY WOMEN?" Give me a break! The diversion game is so obvious! Oh, please come down to earth. Sorry, folks! You are naive, if you play into this game. I can't stand it!!!!!!! It's bulls***! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Gimme a break Jellyjaws --" Posted by Holly on 11:39:54 5/28/2000 It's at least "college level" gossip. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "HOLLY!" Posted by Jellyjaws on 12:23:35 5/28/2000 You are so right and tickled me to death. I read your great overview of the case a couple of months ago, and applauded my "pineapple" off. You are "The Queen" and I may "garrOAT" myself to death. I can only aspire to your understanding of this case. Still think "Mystery Women" is a junk pile. You slay me! HEE HEE! Love, Jelly! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Jellyjaws." Posted by Holly on 20:59:36 5/28/2000 :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "PSS, Holly" Posted by Edie Pratt on 12:27:28 5/28/2000 WHO did give the tabs Daphne's picture? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Porn Rings (different than mood rings)" Posted by lee2 on 13:35:00 5/28/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:35:00, 5/28/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:17:21, 5/28/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:14:04, 5/28/2000 http://www.onlineathens.com/1998/090398/0903.a33childporn.html http://unesco.ias.unu.edu/webworld/child_screen/conf_index_2.html http://www.preventabusenow.com/news3.htm#Italy http://www.tabloid.net/97/08/19/index.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Jelly" Posted by Seashell on 13:22:16 5/28/2000 Case connection or not, kiddie porn is nothing to scoff at and MW appears to have been terribly abused - by whom I'm not sure. To debunk someone without having all the facts is rather short-sighted to put it mildly. I don't know if there were 2 or more males involved, not did I say that FW may be one of them. I don't know. It may have been another family member or friend or maybe no other male at all. I speculate with the facts we have and with what seems to be comming into the light. It doesn't look good for TeamRam. But I'm now agreeing with Holly that the officials knew about the sexual aspects of the crime years ago. So does ST, but I'm SPECULATING that that's kept under wraps. What I feel quite certain about is that if the Rams didn't kill her, they know who did and why. There are lots of dots to connect. Go FBI!!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "sig heil" Posted by maundy on 13:31:28 5/28/2000 the SS symbol is a rune representing the sun (i found out) called sowelu, sigel, sig. it represents victory. the node victory on the tree of life is Netzach, probably NTzCh, english translation of Hebrew. somewhere I saw reference to Netza, NTz. kda looks like Nazi. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "lee2" Posted by Pope38 on 15:56:50 5/28/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:56:50, 5/28/2000 I read with intrest the above link you provided to the Athens newspaper. Those small towns in Northeast Georgia are right around the area John and Patsy visited on their Christian retreat. Augusta, Alpharetta and Norcross are not far from Dahlonega. Dalongega is the town John's retreat took place. I have also found, doing a search of Georgia, the camp where they MAY have stayed. Patsy mentions staying at a cabin in that area and I believe it could be : Camp Glisson Dalonega,Ga. http://www.campglisson.org the christian camp is near a small airport. edited because this pope did not spell christian correctly! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Eek ..." Posted by hareen on 15:42:10 5/28/2000 Remember the dream JonBenet had about living in a castle with her baby but no husband? Am I remembering that right? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "So, the BPD" Posted by Morgan on 17:06:19 5/28/2000 handed some journalists folders containing interviews concerning child sex ring abuse, connected to wealthy and powerful people, that occurred in Texas and Colorado. And BPD had travelled to Texas to investigate. This happened before MW hit the scene. They had the SS#'s of everyone closely involved in the JBR case. How deeply did the BPD probe Fleet's life/phone records/business/finances? What does anyone know about Fleet Oil? Has anyone found a web site? Why did Fleet move to Boulder? He's supposedly an avid sailor, retired from business work, and independently wealthy. Yet he moved far away from the water and the origins of the supposed family wealth. A wealthy man is accused of bringing a six year old boy to Colorado for the purposes of a pedophile sex ring. And now MW comes forward accusing at least one wealthy Colorado man with participation in a sex ring. I hope the BPD thoroughly checked the phone records and credit cards of both Jr and Sr White, to see if there was a connection between them and the Texan pedophile. If they didn't, then the Belgian Syndrome is alive and well in Boulder. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "Morgan" Posted by Seashell on 18:04:17 5/28/2000 "I hope the BPD thoroughly checked the phone records and credit cards of both Jr and Sr White, to see if there was a connection between them and the Texan pedophile. If they didn't, then the Belgian Syndrome is alive and well in Boulder." Morgan, do you really think that people involved in a pedo. ring would leave paper and phone trails? I don't. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Seashell" Posted by Morgan on 18:16:06 5/28/2000 Yes, I do. I think the trails would be very convoluted and dificult to follow, but not impossible. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "overplaying ones hand..." Posted by becky on 19:23:17 5/28/2000 that's what I think. So...the Repubican-Nazi-CIA-KKK--White-Child-pornography-Extremists did it. Everyone BUT John and Patsy. I got a kick out of the use of the George W. and the Evil Republicans (Haddon's a big player in the DNC). Except of course, Lloyd Bentson. Wonder what he's done recently to piss Haddon off?? Only question now is....does the porn theory have enough merit that they are hoping to discredit it by taking it to absurd levels...or are they just doing the OJ scattergun ANY-other-perp-will-do technique? Problem is ...Seashell hit the nail on the head...nothing written exculpates John and Patsy In the end...all's I'm left with is that there IS a connection between the Ramsey's circle of friends and porn rings. So... I don't think it's working guys...back to the drawing board. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "so what I'm hearing is..." Posted by becky on 20:51:17 5/28/2000 blah blah blah...someone who was at Whites Christmas party participated in parties where children are garrotted (how many people do you even know that know such a thing is possible)..blah blah blah... Fleet White said they woke up Burke...but Burke was already awake before Fleet got there (per 911 tape)..blah..blah..blah.. White Family has no comment on BPD press release, which implies by omission a "link" to child sex abuse..blah blah blah... John Ramsey, after finding his daughter murdered and no longer needs ransom money...still tries to fly to Atlanta..but when he is told he can't go...the broker who had arranged for the ransom flies to him and Ramsey picks him up from the airport..blah blah blah.... Ramsey's won't take a lie detector test..blah blah blah... sounds like the real picture is becoming much clearer despite the static [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "A Leap..." Posted by Anton on 20:50:40 5/28/2000 I'm not a conspiracy theorist (or practitioner) but some of this stuff is intriguing. I'm not saying there's a direct link between the Ramseys and the sex scandal in Belgium. I also wouldn't say there's a direct link between the Constantine info and the Ramseys. But there are some parallels that make me wonder if whoever murdered JonBenet knew about these other situations and either murdered JB to point to them, or used them to coerce/intimidate someone else by making a connection between them and killing JB. As long as we're exploring strange branches off strange families' trees, something popped out at me while reading about the castle: "Mrs. Tweet Kimball...raises Santa Gertrudis cattle." Again, I don't see a direct connection but is it possible that JB overheard John and/or someone else talking about Mrs. Kimball or someone associated with her who was coming for a visit? Then she heard someone say that Mrs. Kimball raises Santa Gertrudis cattle and, being an imaginative six-year-old, believed that "Santa" was coming for a visit after Christmas? (Especially if she didn't hear or understand all of the conversation, only bits and pieces.) That's a hell of a stretch and I place it as a misty theory amongst misty possibilities. Still, when JB told her friend that "Santa" was coming after Christmas, she meant something. I don't think she meant she was going to be visited by a cow or by the "real" Santa Claus. Could only be that her parents told her she was getting another special present after Christmas and she assumed this meant that Santa was coming back. Anton [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Anton" Posted by SJ on 21:26:24 5/28/2000 That is interesting. A six year old could definitely get the wrong idea about the Santa terminology and mix it up. Whether she did or not is the question. Also, somewhere in the early part of this thread someone mentioned the porn pix of JonBenet and not knowing about it? That happened here in Ohio, south of where I live, and the guy was arrested and whatever. The newspapers here did report he had child pornography and that it included pix of JonBenet, but he was reportedly not connected with her murder in any way. That whole story is true. One other thing that comes to mind with all this is what if the Rams became involved unknowingly with this group, and then couldn't get out of it? Perhaps the reason they are covering so hard and all is because they have been blackmailed? Or threatened that they or their other kids would be killed if they spill what they know? I still believe Patsy did it, but I'm open to other discussions. I do believe that this porno ring does exist and that a link between the ring and the Rams is possible. Just don't know what it is for sure. OR if or how it may connect to the murder. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "Anton" Posted by becky on 20:54:49 5/28/2000 doesn't seem like much more of a stretch than anything else does :) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "EdieP." Posted by Holly on 21:00:49 5/28/2000 I'm clueless. But AH says he didn't do it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "Checking In" Posted by janphi on 22:14:39 5/28/2000 Well, I am have been submerged in all of this since Friday--great way to spend a holiday weekend, but what the heck. I'm obsessed, I like doing it, it might help somebody and I need to learn all I can about the 'Net, so here I am. First off, very, very little of any of the Constantine stuff checks out on the surface. But, we wouldn't expect it to, would we? I assume Alex Constantine himself has to hide who he is, so no way to check that out. He has written three conspiracy books, all through "Feral House" (not a scary name, lol) which is on my list to check. J.A. or Joe Calhoun doesn't show up anywhere, either. Especially not on the list of people who wrote The Panama Deception and won the Oscar for Best Documentary in 1993. OK, so both guys are in hiding because of things they've written. I'll give 'em that much. Sorry, everybody, X rated next: Briefly, if I were a conspiracy theorist, which I am not, I would first have to think that both Ramseys were amongst those who were training their daughters to patriotic work at higher levels of government. Yes, it could explain a few things--most notably the "slight" molestation JBR experienced. IOW, the gradual enlargement of the vaginal opening over a long period of time, rather than the ripping, tearing, scarring of forceful penetration by rape or non-consensual sexual contact with an adult male "member". Those deviant guides' websites that I posted research from before are the ones that said there were graduated sizes of child-size d*ld*s that were used for this purpose. (These aren't XXX-rated porn sites--no pix--they are "adult" sites where you have to click through that you're 18 or 21 or whatever. Children are not part of the discussion, but I think that last piece of info came from a survivors' website, as educational information.) Obviously, the pageant work and all the prep for that would speak to this subject also. Could I be convinced that this was possible? Not sure about that. JR was a Republican, don't know how politically involved he was or how much his donations were--has that ever been checked and published? I didn't find him anyplace I expected to, but did not check in-depth at all. And I'm sure if these people could have connected FW to Neil Bush (or any of the Bushes) through business, they would have--like the mainstream newspapers did with John Hinckley's dad and brother the first few hours after the shooting. My first reaction is that mostly all I've ever heard about as far as blackmailing high-up politicians is the use of young adult female "hostesses" (prostitutes) and any age adult male "protegés" (prostitutes). They are paid very, very well, but then discarded. I guess the ante has really been upped the past few years, if powerful men will get involved in pedophilia. That is so hard for me to comprehend. If they're already politically, financially and socially powerful, what possible attraction would it be to overpower a child? (I'm talking about the "suckers," the ones who are being set up, not the manipulators.) I just keep thinking about something Camilla Parker-Bowles' husband said when he was told that everyone knew about his wife's affair with Prince Charles. He said he knew and he was "proud" to be of service to the Crown. Anyway, I've got a lot more to say about all the Houston and Texas connections, mostly to say they aren't connected at all. But I'll point out some of this when I can. BTW, to begin with, Nicholstone isn't an antebellum mansion--it is a nice, large Victorian home used for weddings and a regular "normal" family lives there. But more about the family later--and it doesn't relate to Jerry J. Moore at all. However, I can think of at least 3 mansions in that same general area that very definitely could be one of the "castles" the Schultz boy spoke of, if indeed he is telling the truth. Just wanted to keep any other sleuths from wild goose chasing on some of this. Hope you will do the same and post dead-ends here, too, so I won't waste much time there. I don't know one single thing about Huey Meaux, not one, but I remember when all of that was in the news here and wondered why in the world I had never run into him, because I know so many people he should have been--and was--connected with. That one I can check out on the inside, but will have to be done slowly and discreetly. more later.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "Maundi...." Posted by Pedro on 23:01:26 5/28/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 23:01:26, 5/28/2000 .....the reason why I did wrote the word that way is because is a very long and difficult word. Regarding the term *nazi* is a short of nacional Socialist, use by the allies when refering to the Nacional Socialist party of the Workers, that was, more or less, the real name of the nazi party, they never call themselves nazis :-). Sorry, Maundy, I spell your name wrong. Pedro. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "for your consideration..." Posted by maundy on 23:52:45 5/28/2000 constantine. wrote about franklin case. some factual error (however, also noted this phenomena in media reports of what lie detectors showed). franklin case: possible connection between craig spence and larry king (not the talk show host). a) black, gay male republicans with money and connections with DC powerbrokers (now that has to be a small club b) about time franklin case breaks, call boy ring with links to spence and cia breaks. spence commits suicide. story sinks into oblivion. c) franklin goes bust, king and others implicated in supplying drugs and minors to politicos et al. more info about franklin can be found in anotn whatever's unauthorized biography of george bush chapter 15 all over the net. it does not mention that the barbara webb mentioned is larry king;s cousin (in the book). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "Pedro" Posted by maundy on 23:59:02 5/28/2000 Whatdid they call themselves? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "Why murder a young child?" Posted by Brightlight on 00:16:50 5/29/2000 Received this URL in regard to another matter, however segments may be of interest here, especially why ritual participants prefer to 'murder a young child in an environment of absolute terror.' Excerpt: Satanists are convinced that if you murder a young child in an environment of absolute terror, that at the moment of death, the ritual participants can 'capture' the "life force" or life essence of their young victims. The younger the victim, the more powerful, they believe, the "life essence" captured. Satanic ritual guru, Aleister Crowley, spoke of this belief ad nauseum in his books. http://educate-yourself.org/nwogundersonsmear1may0.html Reference to Ramsey case with a link provided but received a 404 Not Found. Excerpts follow: Gunderson has vowed to never give up on McDonald, convinced that McDonald is an innocent patsy taking the fall for satanic ritual participants whose capture could lead to the exposure of highly placed government and civilian individuals that are involved in these abhorrent activities, as has been recently alleged in the JonBenet Ramsey case. * * * * * * * * * * * * Overlaying the Franklin Cover-Up case is a CIA front operation, called The Finders. Gunderson outlined the mission of The Finders in a description included in his 1993 report, titled "Child Kidnapping in America; The CIA Connection", as a: "CIA Front established in the 1960's. It has TOP CLEARANCE and PROTECTION in its ASSIGNED task of kidnapping and torture-programming of young children throughout the U.S. Members are specially trained GOVERNMENT KIDNAPPERS known to be sexual degenerates who involve the kidnapped children in satanic sex orgies and bloody rituals as well as murders of other children and the slaughter of animals. * * * * * * * * * * * * This CIA operation has involved the kidnapping, abduction, enslavement, and murder of literally THOUSANDS of American children snatched from the streets of America by CIA operatives. In Gunderson's report on The Finders, he included copies of letters containing page after page of specific allegations and supporting documentation sent in 1992 to the Nebraska Attorney General, Dan Stenberg, the Nebraska FBI, the Director of the FBI, William Sessions, the Governor of Nebraska, and the Attorney General of the United States, William Barr, among others. The sort of replies he received back could be used for a graduate level course in Official Stonewalling. * * * * * * * * * * * * Many of the children stated that they were placed on private jets and flown to Washington DC and other cities for sex orgies with U.S. Congressmen, U.S. Senators, at least one top official in the White House, and other public officials. These same children were also used in an organized child kidnapping/sex slave operation that facilitated the abduction of yet other children from playgrounds and off the street, who were then used in child porn and snuff films or sold into slavery. "Sales" of abducted young American children to foreigners was common. A 10-13 year old blue eyed blonde could be auctioned off for more than $50,000 near an air strip close to Las Vegas or Toronto and then placed on an unmarked plane, never be seen or heard from again. One of those planes was positively identified as a DEA (U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration) plane. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "Janphi" Posted by RiverRat on 06:26:35 5/29/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 06:26:35, 5/29/2000 Interesting article on Huey Meaux: "Huey's gift of gab made it possible to overlook the gray areas of his personality--the way he treated his artists, his open interest in young women, and his hedonism." The Crazy Cajun - May 1996 http://www.Laventure.net/tourist/sdq_meaux.htm edited for typo [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "please...." Posted by becky on 10:45:14 5/29/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:45:14, 5/29/2000 black, gay male republicans with money and connections with DC powerbrokers... This is a bit of a hard sell don't you think? And republican"s" no less. I can see a jury breaking out into laughter over this theory. You can sell the fantastic, but you have to somehow link it to the known facts. So far...there is no link to the events of 12/25/96....except inuendo and stretches of imagination such black, gay, republican-s please, your not dealing with a population of folks angry at 200 years of injustice in boulder like in the OJ case....you have a bunch unpleasant, rich white folks with money to buy the heads of the government...like Haddon.... who were so bored by their excess that they turned to weird foridden sex to get their kicks. black gay republicans and george bush...you guys are dreaming if you think you can make this pig fly. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "sigels" Posted by maundy on 11:04:34 5/29/2000 In a book of Magic I have, sigel is the rune for the SS (in case you odon't know, the Nazi hierarchy practiced magick). A sigel is also a graphical representation of the name of a spirit. Sigils can be "created using the Golden Dawn technique of generating spirit sigels mechanically upon the central rose of the Rose Cross Lamen." The book calls it a sigil wheel and gies and example using the western alphabet. The lettera are placed in boxes within concentric rings, then a line drawn between the letters. Using this wheel, SBTC produces - guess what? - a Sowelu sigil. An interesting coiincidence is that the Rose Cross Lamen also contains the letters IRNI. Initals for Thomas's book are: (J)IRMI. Occultists would find that extremely significant- maybe even threatening. Would depend on the numerical significance of changing the M to a N. BTW, I'm sure that wasn't Thomas' intent. Just serendipitous. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "becky" Posted by maundy on 11:12:45 5/29/2000 huh? i don't undestand what you're implying about OJ and slavery having to do with a couple of gay, black influential republicnas whose names were linked with George Bush. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "maundy" Posted by becky on 12:45:53 5/29/2000 What I'm saying is that it seems a bit odd that we have Ramsey's lawyer, Haddon, who is a major player in democratic politics, and a child porn connection developing on this thread that links the child porn to (shock) ONLY Repulican power brokers, including GW Bush. How convenient right before an election when you can get some help from any group anxious to see a democrat win the election. Now, I'm not being as critical as I sound to those doing this research...in fact I appreciate it...cause in here somewhere is the truth. But it's just a bit too much to think that any jury...except an OJ jury...(which you won't find in Boulder) are going to bite off on this stuff. So..as for the comment re: 200 years of Rage...I'm just saying...John and Patsy Ramsey ain't no OJ Simpson and if their lawyers think they can create some kind of OJ rerun in Boulder..dream on. What we have found is a connection to the Ramesy's circle of friends that provides an plausible explanation how jbr wound up with a garrotte around her neck. It's a pandora's box that won't close, and researching it is bound to bring up some surprises...let's just be realistic. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "who's to say?" Posted by maundy on 15:12:35 5/29/2000 becky, i didn't watch the OJ trial (nor did i watch who can marry a millionaire, i'm proud to say :) so im still unsure of your inference with regards to bush. as regards shrub, i assure i don't work for haddon. i can't help if it the two biggest scandals that almost erupted involving sex rings and politicos involved two gay, black male republicans, one of whom is dead, one of whom is serving 15 years in a Colorado federal pen, and both of whom are documented to have known bush. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 73. "if you really want to know..." Posted by peel on 00:02:35 5/30/2000 ...when you are researching re bush,also research about clinton and especially his hand-picked top attorney J. Reno... the goods on her are that she was found with a very young girl, in Florida, is an agreesive lesbian predator on young girls, and that is what clintoon has on her that she has moved heaven and earth to protect him....there are all kinds of theories out there....so if you are going toss some in, then let' s have them all. By the way, i believe a lot of them... I think that the government is totally corrupt and that everything is done to support the wants and the needs of the rich and powerful and the little people can just like it or lump it...there is no differance in any political animal except they all want power and they will even work under the table to keep their little secrets between them....that is why nothing is ever done in this country...just talk. By the way, research the DEA and Mena , Arkansas while you are at it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 71. "More on the Franklin Cover Up" Posted by lee2 on 20:09:33 5/29/2000 http://www.tarpley.net/bush21.htm [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "The Finders..." Posted by NOVA on 15:21:17 5/29/2000 are an interesting case. To any of you posters who feel that child/adolescent sex rings composed of powerful people who molest and terrorize young children utilizing "satanic" imagery is a bunch of crackpot b.s., do a search for the Finders. A series of Newsweek (Yes, Newsweek, not some off-the-wall tabloid) articles detailed a horrific find that left local law enforcement officers to question why their government (CIA,FBI, etc.) told them to drop the case due to National Security reasons! Here in Northern California, there was an alleged sex ring that involved real estate developers, politicians, some law enforcement officials, and underage kids who were paid to have sex and be photographed/filmed secretly for pornographic and blackmail purposes. Like the Franklin Cover-up, it was quickly silenced and some of the former participants were threatened to shut-up or else. Who's going to believe them? Only a bunch of crazy women's advocates like me, that's who! The best that could happen to these women and one young man was to get them out of town and into a safer environment. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "Nova" Posted by lee2 on 17:00:26 5/29/2000 your post sent me on a search which turned up this article by Alex Constantine (whose article/post, as I recall, was the lead in for this thread). This article mentions the Finders - as well as several other groups . . . http://www.morethanconquerors.simplenet.com/MCF/alexfmsf.htm [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 69. "Oh, my, lee2," Posted by NOVA on 19:11:02 5/29/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:11:02, 5/29/2000 I just looked over your link and stopped at the stuff regarding the False Memory Syndrome Foundation or FMSF. The FMSF is an unusual organization. A search of it's founders, goals, members, (one of whom admitted in a European pedophile magazine that sex between adults and youngsters was not all bad!) and their strange, coinky-dink relationship with the CIA and other high-profile "child sex" allegations and cult activities are nothing short of eye-opening. (Regarding the member who all but approved of adult/child sexual encounters, he resigned after the article was brought to light. His wife, however, remains on the board of the FMSF. Weird, huh?) The reason I take issue with the FMSF, is that a while back, a young woman publically accused her father--a well known Napa winery executive here in Northern California--of molesting her since childhood. The case received a lot of publicity and the FMSF methodology was used in trying to explain the girl's "planted" memories. Now, the girl's mother believed her and so did many others, including friends who knew her story before therapy and the father's former employer. That didn't stop the father and his lawyer from using the false memory excuse to defend the father's behavior and blame both the therapist and daughter for making the incest thingy up. Incensed that this young woman was being smeared and made out to be a nut-case by her father, some of us at the local women's advocacy groups started to research the FMSF and we came up with all kinds of conspiracy cover-up stuff. No, I never thought that I would believe that something evil was going on in America until I started talking with my fellow rape/crisis counselors, women's advocates, and attending workshops across the US. The similarities between some of the victim's stories that had garnered local and national government indifference/stonewalling were hard to dismiss. Regarding conspiracies, I'm not a big fan of the Ickes space-aliens-are-controlling-the-world crowd, (they are nutty, IMHO) but guys like Ted Gunderson, Alex Constantine, and John W. DeCamp who wrote The Franklin Cover-Up are very believable and are heroes in my book. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "Lee2," Posted by NOVA on 17:27:49 5/29/2000 Thanks for the link. A couple of years ago, I pulled some archived articles regarding the Finders from both Newsweek and another magazine (US World News and Reports?) from the fall of 1988 or '89, I think. I'll try and dig them up. Scary stuff. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "NOVA" Posted by lee2 on 17:34:23 5/29/2000 I found another link (connected somehow to the site of one of those authors "from the edge"): http://www2.50megs.com/ickenews/america/usa/022000a.html Interestingly enough - several sites - which looked like they would have been revealing - are no longer available. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 70. "Yeah, this" Posted by NOVA on 18:32:13 5/29/2000 article (late 1987) is on a right-wing site, but the Washington Post is anything but a "fringe" news source. I'm still trying to locate the Newsweek articles that were written during the Finders investigation (if one could call it that) and about a year later after the investigation was shut down due to pressure from government agencies. Unfortunately, these kinds of searches lead to all kinds of information outlets. I prefer to stick with the more established media. Although many of the right-wingers say that the media is controlled by the liberals, it doesn't stop them from publishing an article like the one you posted the link to. ;) I have to agree with the conservatives that it is very frustrating and infuriating when something of this magnitude is hushed up time and time again. Ooops, gotta go. My hubby is calling me to come help him serve dinner fresh off the grill... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "heil and lamenations" Posted by maundy on 15:34:15 5/29/2000 as it turns out, another rune is haegl, literally "hail". represented by an h-like rune. rune is used in magic to call forth involuntary suffering w/o purpose. gives a whole new meaning to "sig heil", huh? came across this, and a discussion on some other threads gave it an interesting twist: Lamen: perosnal power symbol of the magus, worn on a chain or ribbon around th e neck, may be inscribed on metal, the mags is vulnerable to misue via the personal magical name written on it [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 74. "if only 15% of this is true..." Posted by maundy on 00:29:19 5/30/2000 why is John still breathing? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 75. "If 15% is true" Posted by becky on 08:56:51 5/30/2000 >why is John still breathing? Maundy, You make a good point. I didn't mean in my above posts to completely disregard this line of thought or imply that you worked for Haddon. Sorry if it sounded that way. In fact, I now support the theory that there is some link between Patsy and those who would garrote a child..either intentional or unintentional and that John's silence is due to some form of blackmail. But then why is he breathing? Maybe he has a few goods of his own that make it worth the while of others to see he lives a long and healthy life??? I don't know...this case is so convoluted and confusing. One thing I do know...Patsy has to link in here somehow...or nothing makes sense. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 76. "Becky posts:" Posted by NOVA on 09:55:59 5/30/2000 "One thing I do know...Patsy has to link in here somehow...or nothing makes sense." I agree with that whole heartedly. The note has Patsy involved, IMO. I guess it is easier to believe Steve Thomas and his theory rather than try to decipher and follow the unusual coincidences, convoluted connections, bizarre MW revelations, etc.. The more one delves, the more one wishes for a simple explanation of who, what, when, where, and WHY JonBenet Ramsey was murdered. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 77. "shape-shifting doubtful" Posted by maundy on 11:06:26 5/30/2000 ...although Jr and JR do hve a repitilian aura abt them. the Franklin Coverup is an example of a drug/money laundering/minor-providing sex ring with possible blackmai of politicians, covered up by muckety mucks and their toadies, will a fall guy named King. during the investigation, the brothers of two key witnesses were killed and a PI hired by the investigating committee died when his small plane crashed. Craig Spence's name was linked to King's in the book. the book doesn't document the link, but at the least i'm sure they knew each other (small club, as i mentioned). Spence's name waslinked with a Call Boy ring in DC (where King had a house) with possible CIA/blackmail links. Spence commited suicide. as far as i know, investigation unresolved. A group of men in suits taking neglected children to Mexico is connected to the CIA and all investigation is haled in the name of "National Security". according to WSJ and others, drugs and guns and Contras were being run thru Mena airport with Klinton and Bush's knowledge. (talk about plausible deniablity - Reagan testified "I don't know" over 100 times at the I-C hearings). Series of artcles by Gary Webb in San Jose Mercury News says CIA invloved in bringing in crack. Webb's rep ruined. Few years later CIZ releases reports saying, "wel, okay, we knew our assets were dope-dealers." Hillary's law firm, Rose Law Firm (named after whom?) owned by Jackson Stephens, with lnks to BCCI, I-C, China, toxic waste dumping. Stephanopoulus, All too Human, "If you've read John Grisham, you've got a pretty good idea what Rose Law was like - Little Rock's version of the Firm." (p7) (also a good book to read about splitting - GS's and Clinton's). Documented human rghts abuses by our government involving radiation tests, plutonium exposure, and maunchurin candidate stuff. Point being, there is more than enough evidence of sex rings being covered up by politicos, local and national and international. there is proof our government will do harmful things to its citizens in the name of "Power". Even if all are linked in some big secret shadow government conspiracy, is it linked to JonBenet? does it have to be linked to JonBenet to indicate a coverup? or the involvement of others beyond the principals? Haddon et al's involvement suggests something bigger than a "mom gone bad" or even a link to a possible intergenerational familial cult child abuse sex ring how big? well, maybe it's just a thread, but sometimes that's all it takes to unravel the whole. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 78. "Maundy!" Posted by Holly on 11:33:29 5/30/2000 What a mind. While you're on a roll, any idea where Patsy went in Texas, who she saw and what she did? Was the BIG diamond that so offended J Phillips a token of esteem, or a reward? I'm very interested on your thoughts... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 82. "becky" Posted by maundy on 01:29:16 5/31/2000 i have no idea the reference of what you're asking. i'd need more details (although i suspect phillp's objectivity). First, i need to ask mame, did you send me an email 5/15 with an enclosure of a potocopy of the BPD statement re bridget and a message like, "i can't make this out"? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 79. "Pope38...I've BEEN to Camp Glisson!" Posted by Cassandra on 11:48:16 5/30/2000 When I was a young Methodist Cassandra! Had a great time. It's a beautiful spot. Cassie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 80. "Cassandra." Posted by Holly on 11:51:54 5/30/2000 Where is my mail? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 81. "drop in the bucket" Posted by maundy on 01:24:35 5/31/2000 i've been reading icke. ick. reading icke is putting my drop in the bucket of dark. i sorely need a prayer for the light, and given that i've read quite a few, it's curious thewords wont't form in my mind. am i cursed? yeah, with self-will. run rampant. just gott remember who's on top of it all, and right now i'm having trouble. remembering, that is. oy. that said, i have a line i've ben dying to use. Alice Mller's thesis re: WWII teaches the tragedy of terrorizing tots with terribly traumatic teutonic toilet training. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 83. "just want to tell everyone that.." Posted by becky on 15:37:16 5/31/2000 I've changed my mind. Yes...after 3 1/2 years I have changed my mind. I thought that this porn connection would amount to something because I did't see how a basically normal family with no history of abuse of their other children could do the staging that was done that night. After this whirlwind tour of staged events...I see that not only were they capable, but that is most likely that they would have attempted to stage the death in the best light, like they have done in all of these ridiculous interviews. Sure, you can fool some of the people all of the time...but what good is that unless you plan to surround yourself with fools. I also see that they spent lots of time here on this forum with us and found the weakest points in their case. Refusal to take lie detector tests Refusal to discuss their case to police Wearing the same clothes in the morning Fleet Whites credibility The broken window The changing of jbr's shirt etc. And we see that they have taken each one of these items and presented their case to the public in controlled and staged enviroments. Never mind that it is ridiculous and MOST of the people won't buy it...they have the audacity to do it anyway. This thread is about the porn connection. Now I just believe the weak, secretive porn connection which no one would spell out except in riddles and inuendo was just one of the items on the check sheet...destroy Fleet White's credibility. No..they have overplayed their hand and showed us that they really are not like the rest of us. They will stop at nothing to be in control. They will destroy anyone, anything and do whatever it takes. Sorry Ramsey's ...in the last few days you tipped your hand. And I see that there is no trump card in your hand. No porn connection. Nothing but two self absorbed, pathologically selfish folks who lost control. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 84. "becky" Posted by Anton on 19:58:28 5/31/2000 ...there is no trump card in your hand. No porn connection. Nothing but two self absorbed, pathologically selfish folks who lost control. Well put! I get the feeling that these two had something to hide, JonBenét wasn't going to let them hide it (in all innocence) and they (or at least one of them) researched how to get rid of her. These two are now obsessed with covering their assets with the same fervor they've been striving to cover their asses for 3 1/2 years. I also love your line: "Sure, you can fool some of the people all of the time...but what good is that unless you plan to surround yourself with fools." Anton [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]