"The suitcase" jameson's Links Timeline News Chat Forum Archives Cord Photos Email [Lobby] [Main] [Help] [Search] The Public Forum Forum Type: Public Moderator: test Time Zone: EST Printer Friendly Format Original Message "The suitcase" Posted by jameson on May-30-01 at 01:41 PM (EST) John and the housekeeper said the suitcase was not stored in that part of the basement. It was found flat against the wall, Fleet moved it. There is a bit of glass on the top of it - - and what appeared to be a partial footprint. [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] Table of Contents OK, Sweebie, 02:15 PM, May-30-01 jams, nyc, 02:27 PM, May-30-01 yeah, jameson, 02:41 PM, May-30-01 Stored where?, jameson, 02:43 PM, May-30-01 thanks Jams - , Sweebie, 03:32 PM, May-30-01 HEY - LOOK AT THAT SUITCASE, Sweebie, 03:34 PM, May-30-01 Sweebie, sash, 03:57 PM, May-30-01 OK - now that the suitcase is open...., Sweebie, 04:02 PM, May-30-01 Sweebie, docG, 04:25 PM, May-30-01 open? it's not open, LovelyPigeon, 04:17 PM, May-30-01 Of course it's open, Sweebie, 04:27 PM, May-30-01 latches, tipper, 04:34 PM, May-30-01 Yes, one "latch" is close..., Sweebie, 04:40 PM, May-30-01 lol Sweebie, LovelyPigeon, 04:46 PM, May-30-01 Sweebie & LP, Afton, 04:57 PM, May-30-01 Aren't we, Maggie, 06:35 PM, May-30-01 Maggie, ayjey, 06:44 PM, May-30-01 glad it's not my eyes ayjey, Maggie, 06:58 PM, May-30-01 Maggie, Julie, 09:28 PM, May-30-01 the *twead* you see, LovelyPigeon, 09:43 PM, May-30-01 LP, Julie, 09:56 PM, May-30-01 thanks, Maggie, 10:02 PM, May-30-01 I considered the killer, sharkie, 11:37 PM, May-30-01 question for jams or LP, Sweebie, 09:04 AM, May-31-01 answers, jameson, 09:23 AM, May-31-01 Questions, salli, 09:44 AM, May-31-01 Lovely Pigeon, ayjey, 09:29 AM, May-31-01 Different cases?, salli, 09:38 AM, May-31-01 salli, ayjey, 09:45 AM, May-31-01 suitcase experiment, Sweebie, 09:54 AM, May-31-01 Something else, Sweebie, 09:58 AM, May-31-01 Sweebie, when you say, LovelyPigeon, 10:32 AM, May-31-01 I can see it is not , sharkie, 10:42 AM, May-31-01 suitcase, sash, 10:54 AM, May-31-01 Same case?, salli, 11:37 AM, May-31-01 ayjey, Precious40, 11:21 AM, May-31-01 Precious40, ayjey, 11:50 AM, May-31-01 LP- some answers, Sweebie, 11:56 AM, May-31-01 there is 1 suitcase, jameson, 12:21 PM, May-31-01 Good point jams, Sweebie, 12:25 PM, May-31-01 Messages in this discussion 1 . "OK" Posted by Sweebie on May-30-01 at 02:15 PM (EST) Both the Ramseys AND the housekeeper say it wasn't there before. Where WAS it kept, then? Can either or both of them say? I am just wondering how much snooping this guy did in trying to find something to step on in case he had to make a hasty exit with Sooty brought up, and I thought that was a great point. Maybe this was his "safety net". If he had to get out QUICK. Just out of curiousity - were there any chairs, step-ladders or other items that would have been even more appropriate for the intruder to use? Is so, then maybe that suitcase was to serve a DUAL purpose - and that dual purpose is hinted at by the fibers from the blanket inside being found on JonBenét - at least according to the CBI. The fact that the FBI says no match, still concerns me, and maybe we are putting too much into the CBI's findings on the fiber. But let's say there was a step-ladder or chair or even a small ladder in the basement. For him to choose the suitcase instead of the obviously better choices implies a much different intent. Do you have any photos of the rest of the basement jams? I would like to see them.(hint hint) [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 2 . "jams" Posted by nyc on May-30-01 at 02:27 PM (EST) Can you post the picture of the top of the suitcase which shows the glass? [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 3 . "yeah" Posted by jameson on May-30-01 at 02:41 PM (EST) Sweebie - I have a lot of photos of the basement - - but they are ones I took - - no furniture or clutter. Here is the one of the glass... [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 4 . "Stored where?" Posted by jameson on May-30-01 at 02:43 PM (EST) The suitcase was kept at the base of the stairs - - in the "center hall" down there. Someone going from the window to the upstairs would have seen it. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 5 . "thanks Jams - " Posted by Sweebie on May-30-01 at 03:32 PM (EST) do you have photos of the basement that were taken by the police? I just wonder what other things were down there...like a step-ladder etc [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 6 . "HEY - LOOK AT THAT SUITCASE" Posted by Sweebie on May-30-01 at 03:34 PM (EST) It's OPEN for gosh sakes! No one could have stood on that with it being open! And...maybe THAT is why the comforter(blanket) is important...someone OPENED that suitcase!!!!! NO ONE COULD HAVE STEPPED ON THAT TO GET OUT [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 7 . "Sweebie" Posted by sash on May-30-01 at 03:57 PM (EST) You are right it is cracked open. Wonder if they swiped it for prints? [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 8 . "OK - now that the suitcase is open..." Posted by Sweebie on May-30-01 at 04:02 PM (EST) how does that affect your thoughts? For one thing, it means that piece of glass didn't get there via a shoe. That piece had to FALL on top of that suitcase. Anyone else want to take it from here? [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 10 . "Sweebie" Posted by docG on May-30-01 at 04:25 PM (EST) Well for one thing it does make a difference if the glass was embedded in there or not. I've never heard about it being embedded before, though. Where does THAT come from? Smit? If NOT embedded, then we have to assume the glass got on it directly from the window. An intruder might spill some extra glass going in (except no one actually did go in that way, did they?). But the suitcase would not have been under the window at that point. So if the intruder props the suitcase under the window going out. Well, I suppose he could have kicked some glass down onto it as he exited (except no one actually did exit that way, did they?). Someone staging a fake breakin could have positioned the suitcase, then opened the window inward, taken a hammer (or baseball bat), and broken it from the outside. The glass could have then spilled over the floor and onto the suitcase. The question then would be "where is the rest of the glass"? Do we know how much glass was found? Later, when John was (IMO) trying to *unstage,* he might have pocketed as much glass as he could find, then dumped it later while he was taking a powder from 10:40 on. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 9 . "open? it's not open" Posted by LovelyPigeon on May-30-01 at 04:17 PM (EST) If it was open, the sides would fall to the floor. It may not be closed "just right" but the latches are pulled. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [USER PROFILE] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 11 . "Of course it's open" Posted by Sweebie on May-30-01 at 04:27 PM (EST) LAST EDITED ON May-30-01 AT 04:28 PM (EST) you can see the separation between the two sides (about a half inch wide opening) it looks like to me, and the strap is hanging out. One LATCH is completely open. Maybe the other one is closed. But to me, a suitcase isn't "closed" unless both latches are locked shut. No one could stand on that. If anyone wants to experiment by standing on a suitcase with one latch open, please call us from the ER and let us know how it went. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 12 . "latches" Posted by tipper on May-30-01 at 04:34 PM (EST) It looks like one may be closed. The crack seems to get narrower towards the handle. Separate question: Do the original crime scene photos have time stamps on them? [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 13 . "Yes, one "latch" is closed" Posted by Sweebie on May-30-01 at 04:40 PM (EST) and the other is open. You can see daylight through the opening of the suitcase - that's "open" in my book. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 14 . "lol Sweebie" Posted by LovelyPigeon on May-30-01 at 04:46 PM (EST) This is like JBR's door...was it open, closed, or just opened a bit? The suitcase wouldn't stand upright if it was open and unlatched. I don't have a hardside piece of luggage to experiment with. Anybody else? [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [USER PROFILE] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 15 . "Sweebie & LP" Posted by Afton on May-30-01 at 04:57 PM (EST) You can see the strap coming thru the opening. I can stand on my suitcase. Maybe even if one side is closed--I'll try it LOL It is a tough suitcase, remember those commercials where a car runs over the suitcase? [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 16 . "Aren't we" Posted by Maggie on May-30-01 at 06:35 PM (EST) looking at two different suitcases here? The one in the first post looks like Samsonite, but the one in the third post looks like a nave blue canvas bag with tweed sides. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 17 . "Maggie" Posted by ayjey on May-30-01 at 06:44 PM (EST) You may be onto something. The one by the window looks black (and shiny) [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 18 . "glad it's not my eyes ayjey" Posted by Maggie on May-30-01 at 06:58 PM (EST) A shot of the one under the window from a different angle would be nice. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 19 . "Maggie" Posted by Julie on May-30-01 at 09:28 PM (EST) Thanks for posting that, I was reading all these posts and that's the first thing I noticed I wondered why no one else did. They do appear to be different. The one under the window could have been stepped on because it looks like one of those hard ones, but there is no way you could use a canvas bag to step on. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 20 . "the *twead* you see" Posted by LovelyPigeon on May-30-01 at 09:43 PM (EST) is the carpet that covers the basement floor. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [USER PROFILE] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 21 . "LP" Posted by Julie on May-30-01 at 09:56 PM (EST) I wasn't talking about the carpet (I'm not sure if Maggie and ayjey were, but I don't think so) Look at the suitcase in the top photo, it looks like one of those hard suitcases. But the second one looks like a vinyl type. Not a hard one like the first picture, but a canvas type bag, the kind they mostly sell now. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 22 . "thanks" Posted by Maggie on May-30-01 at 10:02 PM (EST) I suppose it could be the carpet. There is, however, a bound and stitched seam obvious in that picture....something found only on soft bags, unless I am totally cross-eyed. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 23 . "I considered the killer" Posted by sharkie on May-30-01 at 11:37 PM (EST) could have used the suitcase to stand up...perhaps carefully now, and shove his bag of rope, tape, etc out the window. Then he would not have to carry it with him out the door. If he held a bat he would need his hands free. He drops off the note, heads out the butler day. Goes to the window, grabs his bag, places the grate in its place. Casually and carefully heads out into the night. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 24 . "question for jams or LP" Posted by Sweebie on May-31-01 at 09:04 AM (EST) docg asked and I am asking, too - was the glass "embedded" in the suitcase and who says so? Embedded as in smushed into it, like stepped on? or just lying on top of it? [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 25 . "answers" Posted by jameson on May-31-01 at 09:23 AM (EST) same suitcase don't know about anything being pressed into the suitcase -- the glass was on top, no one said mashed in. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 28 . "Questions" Posted by salli on May-31-01 at 09:44 AM (EST) A couple of questions... -Did the suitcase belong to the older brother? -If so, did he use it regularly? -Was the blanket folded neatly? (The killer locked and closed doors, put pencils back etc...) -Did anyone say they had packed the blanket and book in the suitcase? If one side is locked on a hard suitcase, you can stand on it. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 26 . "Lovely Pigeon" Posted by ayjey on May-31-01 at 09:29 AM (EST) The first picture that Jams put up appears to be a black hard-sided suitcase. The second picture (close up of glass) looks like a blue soft-sided (tweed) with a brown handle. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 27 . "Different cases?" Posted by salli on May-31-01 at 09:38 AM (EST) These are crime scene photos. Why would Jameson put up photo's of two different suitcases? What's your point? [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 29 . "salli" Posted by ayjey on May-31-01 at 09:45 AM (EST) My point is, it looks like there are 2 different suitcases from looking at the pictures. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 30 . "suitcase experiment" Posted by Sweebie on May-31-01 at 09:54 AM (EST) I have an old blue american tourister hard sided suitcase from circa 1972. In fact, the latches are the same as those in the pictures above. When one latch is closed, and the other one open, the metal rim sides of my suitcase "meet". They touch, there is no daylight between them, unlike the pictures of the Ramsey's suitcase. This leads me to believe one of two things: either the other side of the Ramsey's suitacse wasn't latched either or something inside the suitcase was pushing the one unlatched end open - and that would have to be a considerable something. I had to PULL that one unlatched end of my suitcase open to resemble the distance in the picture above. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 31 . "Something else" Posted by Sweebie on May-31-01 at 09:58 AM (EST) LAST EDITED ON May-31-01 AT 09:58 AM (EST) see the interior cloth strap hanging out in the closeup picture of the suitcase? Can anyone looking at the picture of the suitcase under the window see that sash or strap hanging out? Jams, do you have a picture of the suitcase that shows BOTH latches? The closer I look at that picture, when compared to my suitcase, the more inclined I am to think that both latches were opened. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 32 . "Sweebie, when you say" Posted by LovelyPigeon on May-31-01 at 10:32 AM (EST) you think both latches were "opened" or "open", do you mean the latches are both open on the suitcase as it stands there under the window? Or do you mean the suitcase was opened and reclosed at some time near the time it was placed under the window? I think I might be misunderstanding what you are saying. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [USER PROFILE] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 33 . "I can see it is not " Posted by sharkie on May-31-01 at 10:42 AM (EST) closed all the way. But one side appears closed. Not very stable for standing on. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 34 . "suitcase" Posted by sash on May-31-01 at 10:54 AM (EST) I have an old suitcase similar to that one. Mine will not stand if both latches are open (falls flat to the floor), but if one is open, it will stand up. If only one latch is closed, it pulls it together but there is a crack between. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 36 . "Same case?" Posted by salli on May-31-01 at 11:37 AM (EST) Jamesson - Are the photos pictures of the same suitcase? [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 35 . "ayjey" Posted by Precious40 on May-31-01 at 11:21 AM (EST) The" brown tweed" you see is the carpet on the floor of the basement. The picture was taken from above the suitcase looking down. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 37 . "Precious40" Posted by ayjey on May-31-01 at 11:50 AM (EST) The picture that I'm looking at is post #3. I am seeing a BLUE suitcase (with glass circled) sitting on brownish/beige carpet! . The blue looks like it may be material (tweed?) but the suitcase in picture number 1, which is shot from a distance, appears to be a hard-sided blackk suitcase. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 38 . "LP- some answers" Posted by Sweebie on May-31-01 at 11:56 AM (EST) 32 . "Sweebie, when you say" Posted by LovelyPigeon on May-31-01 at 10:32 AM (EST) you think both latches were "opened" or "open", do you mean the latches are both open on the suitcase as it stands there under the window? Yes, in the close -up photograph I am talking about the latch(es). The one where you can see the latch is open.At first I thought maybe only ONE was open, but that gap is so big, and my suitcase didn't look like that when only one latch was open - so I am wondering if BOTH latches were open. My suitcase looked like the one in the picture when BOTH latches were open. One side "gapped" open just like in the picture. It is a hardside, and looks like that one. It "stood up" even when the latches were both open because the base of it is rather flat. Or do you mean the suitcase was opened and reclosed at some time near the time it was placed under the window? it could have been, but that isn't what I was talking about I think I might be misunderstanding what you are saying. did I clear it up at all? [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 39 . "there is 1 suitcase" Posted by jameson on May-31-01 at 12:21 PM (EST) The photos are of the same suitcase - - I have posted three photos of it - - one taken from the next room, - - one shows the entire suitcase and a bit of the floor and the other shows the top. I have seen one other, it the top of the suitcase but was "altered" - - underexposed or something to show the footprint on the top. I don't remember if both latches were shown. If neither side was latched, I think it would have fallen open. I mean it did have stuff in it. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP] 40 . "Good point jams" Posted by Sweebie on May-31-01 at 12:25 PM (EST) needless to say, mine was empty during the experiment. It didn't fall open, but then I didn't put a comforter in it. [REMOVE] [ALERT] [EDIT] [SEND EMAIL] [REPLY] [REPLY WITH QUOTE] [TOP]