Justice Watch Discussion Board "LET'S PLAY BARBIES 2.3!" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... LET'S PLAY BARBIES 2.3!, janphi, 08:22:20, 6/06/2000 little girsl and barbies, maundy, 09:29:42, 6/06/2000, (#1) If I could ask some questions..., mary99, 10:40:28, 6/06/2000, (#2) what do you mean, Edie Pratt, 10:48:39, 6/06/2000, (#3) Edie Pratt, mary99, 15:17:43, 6/06/2000, (#4) Xmas party, Orsen, 16:10:35, 6/06/2000, (#5) Oh, Orsen, thanks, janphi, 17:12:51, 6/06/2000, (#7) Black Pants on the 23rd?, pinker, 16:46:37, 6/06/2000, (#6) mouthpiece barbie, maundy, 13:21:35, 6/08/2000, (#8) Barbie Trigger, janphi, 15:18:59, 6/08/2000, (#9) genertion guys, maundy, 01:36:45, 6/10/2000, (#10) Janphi, mary99, 07:02:08, 6/10/2000, (#11) Would it be too much to ask, Holly, 08:52:04, 6/10/2000, (#12) I have another Barbie idea --, Holly, 08:57:28, 6/10/2000, (#13) Holly!, mary99, 20:10:15, 6/10/2000, (#14) Oh my gosh, Msracoon, 20:13:47, 6/10/2000, (#15) That is supposedly true., Holly, 08:51:41, 6/12/2000, (#16) Scarfing for Eternity, janphi, 09:20:00, 6/12/2000, (#17) janphi, Holly, 09:22:26, 6/12/2000, (#18) the scarf was the murder weapon, pinker, 10:26:26, 6/12/2000, (#19) ................................................................... "LET'S PLAY BARBIES 2.3!" Posted by janphi on 08:22:20 6/06/2000 Hey Holly and maundy, pedro--if you all remember what you posted (or tried to), we can start over. I've got mine, that was supposed to be #4 last night. LET'S PLAY BARBIES 2, maundy, 10:13:09, 6/05/2000 is there REALLY a cafe, Edie Pratt, 10:17:49, 6/05/2000, (#1) Anybody checked Hodges?, maundy, 11:23:19, 6/05/2000, (#2) Barbies....., Pedro, 18:15:31, 6/05/2000, (#3) The Barbie, Holly, 20:57:47, 6/05/2000, (#5) still having problems, maundy, 22:56:02, 6/05/2000, (#7) Missing Barbie Post, janphi, 19:21:46, 6/05/2000, (#4) maundy., Holly, 20:58:42, 6/05/2000, (#6) ................................................................... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "LET'S PLAY BARBIES 2" Posted by maundy on 10:13:09 6/05/2000 Well, I'm starting a new thread. Holly, I missed the Midnight Reader ref (as in, I didn't know the ref). Fantasy play? Is that what I'm calling the internal landscape? [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. "is there REALLY a cafe" Posted by Edie Pratt on 10:17:49 6/05/2000 with hanging Barbies, or did Schiller just toss that in for intrigue? What does Mame say? Has she been there? If there is, why not ask THEM what it means? [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. "Anybody checked Hodges?" Posted by maundy on 11:25:46 6/05/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:25:46, 6/05/2000 I reread Singular after watching PMPT the miniseries and I have a vague idea I might have read an explanation for the Barbies in it. I don ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Missing Barbie Post" Posted by janphi on 19:21:16 6/05/2000 I just posted this message, but it never showed up, so trying again! "Just a few more comments, of course" Posted by janphi on 19:12:49 6/05/2000 You know I can't resist a Barbie thread, lol! First, about the hanging Barbies--maybe everybody missed what I wrote the other day on that other thread. I don't know about the café in PMPT, even tho I half-watched the movie and haven't read the book, but the "fad" of hanging Barbies from the ceiling started with the movie "Priscilla Queen of the Desert." They had one hanging from the ceiling of the tour bus and when this movie became a cult classic with the gay crowd, they started decorating with hanging Barbies, too. I've seen an exhibit of them in gift shop in a mall and I've heard about one in one of the leather shops in Montrose, a gay area of town. (Not Montrose, CO.) It's just a "high camp" kind of thing--usually the Barbies are punk'ed up with colored hair spray, spray paint, tattoos, all done in neon pinks, greens, oranges. I don't remember the ones in PMPT, so I may not have been looking at the TV when they showed them (I half-listen to TV and only watch when it gets my attention--always doing something else--like maybe surfing, reading & posting??!)--and hence, don't know what they looked like or what the context was. Second, was it you, maundy, or someone else who commented on "Daddy Roberts" on another thread and GG Barbie's last name being Roberts? Barbie, the doll, didn't have a last name when she was introduced. But in 1961, Mattel commissioned their ad agency copywriters to author a series of books for Random House on Barbie and her teenage fashion model's life. Ha ha, the name of the ad agency was Carson-Roberts, in Chicago. Barbie (never Barbara) became Barbie Millicent Roberts (way to suck up to the boss, huh?) and Ken became Ken Carson, her boyfriend. They lived in Willows, Wisconsin, a fictitious town that was Anywhere USA. They went to Willows High School and after graduation, attended State U. Barbie's parents are George and Margaret Roberts in the books. So now you know who "Daddy" is, hah! Barbie aficionados have used these names (like Francie Lawrence, named for Gidget, whose real name was Francine) as trivia questions for many years. Mattel always denied that this was "official," as Barbie wasn't supposed to "be" from anywhere or have any kind of last name. When the Barbie collecting boom got into high gear in 1994, Mattel decided it was OK to let Barbie have a name for the adults who were into collecting (not for kids yet at that time), because adults wouldn't become "confused." Thus, the Barbie Millicent Roberts (BMR) Collection of clothes and dolls with monogrammed shoes and purses, etc. The GenGirls were the first playline (or "Pink Box") dolls to have the name Barbie Roberts on them--BUT, revisionist history and the young crowd marketing the dolls at Mattel now show "her" birthplace as Los Angeles and a completely odd birthdate ("her" "real" birthdate is 3/9/59, celebrated worldwide, lol). I did a whole faux genealogy for "her" a couple of years ago that happens to include a "Miss Wisconsin" in her maternal line! Pedro fails to see the connection with Barbie and JBR's life and death, but I'm afraid they will always be intertwined just by the fact of the nightgown, if nothing else. (Not to mention other websites that choose to capitalize on the multi-billion-dollar brand name as a keyword for search engines--ahem.) I wish we could know--before John dies, as he always points out--the real reason why the Barbie nightgown was found with her. Where it was in relation to her body. How it got there. Why it was said to be her favorite. Why it was her "lucky pageant" gown. What it looks like. Why the killer put it there. If there is a deeper significance--a triggering mechanism. Whether Patsy had Barbies when she was young. How she played with them, if she did. (From the looks of that wedding photo, it should have been Nedra who had Barbies!) Why the weirdos chose Barbies to mutilate and put on the lawn of the Hellhole. Where JBR's Barbies were in her estimation in relation to her American Girls and the new My Twinn. If a Barbie was on her nightstand when she died, it must have still been special to her--I didn't see an American Girl there. If JBR had naturally outgrown Barbies and had now regressed to playing with them as she had when she was younger, or if she still played with them on a continuum. How Patsy felt about JBR and Barbies. Did she like them, tolerate them, despise them, disapprove of them. Did she think they were "cheap" and JBR needed to "move up" to the more expensive dolls. How were Barbies given to JBR. Did they come as gifts from other little girls at birthday parties. Did JBR ever have a Barbie birthday party. How many Barbies had JBR had in her little lifetime. How did she play with them. If there was chronic sexual abuse, did the Barbie dolls play a part in this in any way. As a reward. As a lure. Withholding as punishment. Did JBR want to dress like a Barbie doll. Was she sexualized for the pageants through Barbie play, either with her mother or her peer group. Did she ever ask for or receive the little Kelly or Stacie dolls, which were more geared to her age group or was it always the grown-up Barbie. Which Barbie outfits did she choose when left to her own devices at the toy store. On and on. Most of these questions can't/won't ever be answered, but I wish they could be. There's a lot there, I think. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "little girsl and barbies" Posted by maundy on 09:29:42 6/06/2000 maybe its where i live, but little girls here play with barbies a lot longer than age 6. probably not as long as i did, though. not counting the adult revival of interest. re: Daddy Roberts, it may have been Daddy Robert. the guy was posting incest stories to a web site. Holly, i've never heard of Midnight Reader, so i wouldn't have cuaght that reference. also, i wonder if what i called an internal landscape is what you were calling fantasy. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "If I could ask some questions..." Posted by mary99 on 10:47:30 6/06/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:47:30, 6/06/2000 (and get answers!) I would want to know what 'Bridget' saw in the significance of the Barbie notebook/binder incident. * Was Barbie a 'trigger' in her childhood also? * Was the doll given after incidents of abuse? * Was it the nieces reaction more than the Barbie image that made her feel that her niece was possibly being abused? On the pageant/Barbie nightgown: If this was a favorite possession of JonBenet's, possibly from the Just My Size Barbie, it might date back to the beginning of her pageant involvement. She loved it because it represented a safe, happy bedtime, maybe. Or maybe she would 'model' in it for her parents, before the pageants became 'her job', as Nedra put it. Whatever the reason, it became her favorite 'comforter' because it had 'good' memory associations. Unlike 'Bridget's' niece, who became alarmed and hysterical. So the Barbie image plays a part in both scenarios, but with opposite emotional associations. Possibly inducing hysteria in one, and presumably producing comfort in the other. Let's recall the heart image at this time, which also plays a similar role in both scenarios: associated with abuse in Bridget's case, and with good feelings in JonBenet's case. In both instances, wasn't the mother the one who drew the heart? If PR drew the heart on JonBenet's hand at the party at the White's...? Could a member of the group who related the heart to sexual abuse have become 'triggered' to want to abuse JonBenet? PR later said: We didn't mean for this to happen. A loving gesture to one person, a trigger for sexual abuse to another. As Barbie may be. Although nobody to my knowledge has stated that it WAS or WASN't there at the party...and PR denies drawing it, either at the White's or at JB's bedside that night, doesn't that say something right there? If the heart was drawn by PR, why not admit it? It's like the pineapple, it became significant only after the Ramseys lied about it. Could JonBenet have carried the nightgown with her in the car, as children do with stuffed animals and favorite 'blankies'? Some thing to snuggle with if she became tired at the party? My children always grabbed their favorite comforter when watching a movie on TV when they were little, did JonBenet bring it to the party because she felt a little insecure or shy? We know she refused to perform at the Ramsey party on the 23rd and also had a crying spell...and she spent part of Christmas Day in bed, not feeling well. So, if the heart and the nightgown were both present at the White party, could it have 'triggered' a guest who saw something very different in those two things than PR and JB did? Did JonBenet's killer leave the nightgown and the heart in place on her hand to let the Ramseys know they had invited the abuser among the guests to molest and then kill JonBenet?? A justification of sorts? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "what do you mean" Posted by Edie Pratt on 10:48:39 6/06/2000 "we know she refused to perform at the party..."? I never heard anything about that, could you explain,please? Forgive me, I didn't catch the hat on that statment:-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Edie Pratt" Posted by mary99 on 15:17:43 6/06/2000 According to Janet McReynolds, in the three part story she wrote about the her husband, the Ramseys, and her recollections of the party they gave the 23rd, JonBenet was pensive and subdued. When she was asked to sing (and probably dance) her Christmas song (I think it was Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree)she politely demurred. I can't produce the article and the exact quotes, but that's pretty close to how it was written. I remember it because when I first read it, it made an impression on me, in light of the 911 call that night. Also, since the Thomas book, we have his report of her tears over not feeling pretty which fits with Janet McReynolds version of events. I do believe JonBenet was stressed out and have no reason to think McReynolds account isn't the truth. She also remembered Patsy as looking drawn or strained from her 'recent' battle with cancer. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Xmas party" Posted by Orsen on 16:10:35 6/06/2000 G'day mates, thought I'd throw a shrimp on the 'Barbie' for yea...From Mrs. Santa's newspaper story... "...during the 1996 party. She sat on the floor at Santa's feet, absorbing everything but saying little. She seemed a quiet, even pensive, little girl, utterly unspoiled and without affectations. When Santa suggested she sing "Rock Around the Christmas Tree," the song that won her the title Little Miss Christmas in a beauty pageant, JonBenet declined with a polite smile. For the party, Patsy Ramsey was dressed in black pants and a black-and-white striped top. Recent ordeal Her face showed the ravages of her recent battle with ovarian cancer. She seemed tense and a little impatient." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Oh, Orsen, thanks" Posted by janphi on 17:12:51 6/06/2000 When I came to JW and everyone was discussing Patsy's red blazer and red fibers on the duct tape, because of what she had worn to "the party," I thought I was losing it. Finally, I posted that I thought I read somewhere that Patsy was wearing a black-and-white striped outfit at "the party." Everyone ignored me. Some time later, I surfed into the "Patsy in prison" parody on-line and thought, aha!! That's where I got the B/W stripes idea! And that's what I'd thought ever since--till you refreshed my brain with this excerpt. Ho ho, thanks for saving my sanity! Personally, I like the idea of convict couture better! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Black Pants on the 23rd?" Posted by pinker on 16:46:37 6/06/2000 Tell me those weren't the same pants worn to the White's and then again to the kidnapping party!! Now poor Patsey will be stuck wearing everthing for 3 long smelly days. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "mouthpiece barbie" Posted by maundy on 13:21:35 6/08/2000 brittany spears fiddler, were you the one at spotted the marks? pnker, i thought you meant the will and tommy dolls at first. something reallscary: the johnny depp as ichabod crane oll. seriously. but maybe it figgers. buterfly markings: pg 132-133 GOD IS A VERB rabbi david a.cooper great site: http://www.inner.org [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Barbie Trigger" Posted by janphi on 15:18:59 6/08/2000 You know, I was thinking about the relationship between the Barbie image on the binder that disturbed MW's niece and the Barbie image that was on JBR's Barbie nightgown. If MW's mother was as close to the Boulder situation as we have heard, she most likely had shared this with MW's sister, the mother of the little girl. If the little girl heard the story often enough about what happened to another little girl her mommy's friends knew--and how the little dead girl was found with her Barbie nightgown--the niece may think of the murder every time she sees a Barbie nightgown anywhere. She may even have a Barbie nightgown of her own, and so might her little friends. If she is not part of the generational abuse, she may simply see the Barbie image on the nightgowns and associate them with a child's murder--JBR's--which is a pretty scary thought to a little girl (we don't know her age, do we? I wonder if she was a toddler in 1996 and is nearing 6 years old now.). If she is being abused, JBR's death may have been used as a warning to her about what can happen to little girls who don't obey (their handlers). Transference of the Barbie image--the silk-screened and printed photograph of Barbie's face and/or full body--from what is seen on the nightgown to any other products carrying this image might be enough to scare this little girl literally to death. If for any reason the niece was somehow familiar with JBR or her family or her relationship with FW's children, or if the niece had actually met them or been in their homes or been at holiday parties with them, so much the scarier for her--and so much direr the warning. The more I think about it, the more I feel this probably is the reason behind her outburst--and all the more reason to share MW's concern for this little girl and others that might also be in harm's way simply by virtue of the families they were born into and the adults to whom they've been entrusted. God bless and keep you and yours, MW. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "genertion guys" Posted by maundy on 01:36:45 6/10/2000 hansen http://www.hevanet.com/solipsis/nova3.htm [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Janphi" Posted by mary99 on 07:02:08 6/10/2000 That's an interesting idea, that the niece had been told what happened to JB and thought it might happen to her, too. But it doesn't cover all the bases...why did she become so hysterical she tried to jump from a moving car, when she was with 'Bridget'? What if the guest from CA was at the RAMSEY perty the 23rd? Could that guest have seen the Barbie nightgown in the Ramsey home? I'm sure PR showed off all the rooms of the home to the guests. Remember JR could not remember ANY of the people at their party the 23rd in his deposition? Not even the Stines. That, to me, means the guests from CA were there and he won't or can't, admit it. Do you think one of the guests may have seen the nightgown on the 23rd and then abused/molested JB (the 911 call) because the nightgown evoked strong memory associations of molestation? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Would it be too much to ask" Posted by Holly on 08:52:04 6/10/2000 that maybe MW aked her niece what was the matter. Mame! Do you know? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "I have another Barbie idea --" Posted by Holly on 09:22:26 6/10/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 09:22:26, 6/10/2000 Dead and Buried Barbie. She wears a crown and holds a sceptre and comes in a casket. It's sick. But it's close to the truth. All proceeds donated to the JBR Foundation. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Holly!" Posted by mary99 on 20:10:15 6/10/2000 Ye gads, how could the parents have buried JonBenet in her pageant finery if they suspected that was how a pedophile became attracted to her?? Why not place her in the ground for her eternal rest as the six-year-old CHILD she was? What is it with them, anyway? Some kind of 'She lived for the Crown, and died for the Crown' melodrama? Why did JR place a SCARF in the casket? Because she gave it to him for Christmas? That would be a good reason NOT to bury it with JonBenet. Frankly, I think the scarf was buried for a much more sinister reason...maybe she was strangled with it? Now THAT would be a good reason to put it where it would never be seen again. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Oh my gosh" Posted by Msracoon on 20:13:47 6/10/2000 the scarf. Hit ME like a ton of bricks. I did not know that that was really true. It is, isn't it? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "That is supposedly true." Posted by Holly on 08:51:41 6/12/2000 But I can't recall who said it. I say, exhume the evidence. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Scarfing for Eternity" Posted by janphi on 09:20:00 6/12/2000 Egads, I've neglected the Barbie thread these days for my real Barbies. Hmmm, the scarf explanation was, I believe, in the POS, was it not? It was in one of the books, of which I have read none. I wanted to come to all my own conclusions and still trying to get there! The scarf was a pretty silk scarf, not the woolen winter scarf given to John (I thought by JAR, not JBR, right? She gave him Jelly Bellies in a dispenser, didn't she? And something else...oh yeah, I remember.) The big board discussion was about "when in the world did JR find time to go buy a new scarf to put in JBR's coffin with her" between flying to Atlanta and making arrangements and getting to the church? Good question, unless the scarf wasn't newly "store-bought." Just something from home. Or maybe he had a personal shopper find it for him. I just think it is obscene!! What were people thinking that were standing there watching him "lovingly" place the scarf across the chest of the little princess in her tiara? What a weird, weird thing to give a little girl as a remembrance! I suppose if they told us it was Hermés that would make it OK? No, that's right, we discussed it being a pashmina stole--much more chic and "now"!! Did anyone put a Barbie doll in there? NO! Weren't Barbies still among her favorite things? Or just the night gown. Oh, that's right -- it was in POLICE CUSTODY!! Well, at least she had her stuffed kitty --AAGGH! Her STUFFED kitty that she got because she wasn't allowed to have the REAL kitty! What else is in there with her? Did anyone in that family really KNOW Jon Benét? Oops, falling off soapbox now. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "janphi" Posted by Holly on 09:22:26 6/12/2000 check your inbox. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "the scarf was the murder weapon" Posted by pinker on 10:28:13 6/12/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:28:13, 6/12/2000 and now it's dead and buried. I wouldn't put it past those scammers. For what earthly reason would Mr Ramsey have put a scarf in that casket? What man even owns a scarf to begin with? An ascot yes, but it's even called a scarf in DOI and it's described to be on the silky side. It's as jeepers-creepers as them claiming they needed Burke's baby teeth and Patsey's baby shoes out of the house before they flew to Atlanta for the funeral. For a long time I wondered what color sister socks was. Was she dark enough to have deposited those mystery fibers? Is that why she's tucked in the casket too? A favorite stuffed animal would be comforting to an injured child, akin to the favorite Barbie nightgown only it wouldn't have the same static nature allowing it to become lost in the blanket. Now that I think about it, Patsey surely may have accessorized her party outfit from the 23rd and 25th(see posts 5&6 above)with a scarf. How about it Boulder-you got the pics. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]