Justice Watch Discussion Board "LHP: Patsy Killed JonBenet!" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... LHP: Patsy Killed JonBenet!, New York Lawyer, 17:30:49, 6/08/2000 ...well, just tell me..., Dunvegan, 17:37:47, 6/08/2000, (#1) Who better, Ev, 17:45:31, 6/08/2000, (#2) OOoooooo, gosh, that one statement, , ConnieToo, 11:08:28, 6/09/2000, (#57) Thanks NY Lawyer, sabrina, 17:46:10, 6/08/2000, (#3) Whoa Nellie . . . ., Ribaldone, 17:55:16, 6/08/2000, (#5) OK NYL !, sarah, 18:00:19, 6/08/2000, (#6) Well, Starling, 17:53:34, 6/08/2000, (#4) I've said it before--, fiddler, 18:54:39, 6/08/2000, (#8) Starling, Chris, 03:42:14, 6/09/2000, (#35) I believe that the Patsy broke the window..., ConnieToo, 11:13:44, 6/09/2000, (#58) Starling, ericasf, 09:38:33, 6/09/2000, (#51) I am totally blown away, ace21214, 18:52:06, 6/08/2000, (#7) Wow..., Jeanilou, 18:54:54, 6/08/2000, (#9) I thought LHP, Househazard, 19:02:34, 6/08/2000, (#10) She may, ericasf, 09:39:45, 6/09/2000, (#52) Wait a minute..., Cutter, 19:06:45, 6/08/2000, (#12) Will someone please clarify this for me?, BadSusie, 19:02:56, 6/08/2000, (#11) Cutter and BadSusie are both right.., Jeanilou, 19:15:10, 6/08/2000, (#13) The Room, cstuart, 14:13:36, 6/09/2000, (#76) I wonder, darby, 19:16:44, 6/08/2000, (#14) Darby-, Chickadee, 06:08:03, 6/09/2000, (#38) Chick...perhaps Burke was practicing, seenal, 11:27:29, 6/11/2000, (#95) Hmmm....curiouser, janphi, 19:19:13, 6/08/2000, (#15) For a good laugh....., sabrina, 19:26:04, 6/08/2000, (#17) So, this is the big announcement, AutumnBorn, 19:25:51, 6/08/2000, (#16) Mercy, Anderson, 19:58:30, 6/08/2000, (#18) NYL, Cutter, 20:03:48, 6/08/2000, (#19) Xmas decorations., New York Lawyer, 20:09:27, 6/08/2000, (#20) NYL, that story doesn't "wash"., BadSusie, 09:13:30, 6/09/2000, (#48) Windows, Househazard, 20:09:43, 6/08/2000, (#21) oh my, Gemini, 20:16:22, 6/08/2000, (#22) Punished to DEATH, johnlin, 20:20:26, 6/08/2000, (#23) Wait a minute..., mary99, 20:21:21, 6/08/2000, (#24) Help me Jeezzusss, starry, 20:32:05, 6/08/2000, (#25) Garage opener, Luvsa Mystery, 21:07:46, 6/08/2000, (#26) LHP, Aurora, 21:23:08, 6/08/2000, (#27) Patsy's intellect & message for Homeboy, sally denver, 21:45:32, 6/08/2000, (#30) Not smart enough, frankg, 21:38:52, 6/08/2000, (#29) Not only that, Luvsa Mystery, 21:34:01, 6/08/2000, (#28) Thanks, NYL, Seashell, 22:24:07, 6/08/2000, (#31) In Another Forum Far, Far Away from Reality, AutumnBorn, 22:58:42, 6/08/2000, (#34) Autumn, Luvsa Mystery, 07:28:17, 6/09/2000, (#43) Luvs-, Chickadee, 06:35:34, 6/09/2000, (#39) You may be, Gemini, 22:38:05, 6/08/2000, (#32) Gem, Luvsa Mystery, 07:01:16, 6/09/2000, (#41) luvsa', Gemini, 13:28:46, 6/09/2000, (#72) I know I'm biased but, Starling, 22:42:55, 6/08/2000, (#33) The sentiments in this article, sds, 05:10:38, 6/09/2000, (#36) MAYBE THAT'S THE ROOM JB HATED!, Cassandra, 05:20:19, 6/09/2000, (#37) Why would JonBenet allow *any* adult to help her in the bath..., Dunvegan, 07:04:35, 6/09/2000, (#42) Who was it that said JR , Cassandra, 06:53:29, 6/09/2000, (#40) patsy did it!, tall-p, 09:21:29, 6/09/2000, (#49) TallP,, BadSusie, 11:03:46, 6/09/2000, (#56) Gemini, excellent point!, mary99, 08:31:45, 6/09/2000, (#45) Mary, Luvsa Mystery, 09:36:01, 6/09/2000, (#50) Hate to point this out, pat, 08:27:55, 6/09/2000, (#44) Great thread...., Country Girl, 08:53:53, 6/09/2000, (#47) Pat, mary99, 08:38:50, 6/09/2000, (#46) new thought, pat, 09:52:49, 6/09/2000, (#53) Pat, to add to your thought, Andrea, 11:14:03, 6/09/2000, (#59) I Know!, Lacey, 10:57:28, 6/09/2000, (#54) Lacey, fly, 11:15:48, 6/09/2000, (#60) Thanks, yes, Lacey, 11:36:10, 6/09/2000, (#61) I disagree with some of the statements you made.., ConnieToo, 12:07:33, 6/09/2000, (#65) I have a question, Ryder, 11:02:09, 6/09/2000, (#55) nonononono, Gemini, 11:41:41, 6/09/2000, (#62) what I don't get , Edie Pratt, 11:57:41, 6/09/2000, (#64) Gem #62, Ryder, 12:11:14, 6/09/2000, (#66) Greed??, ConnieToo, 12:24:36, 6/09/2000, (#68) Connie, v_p, 14:32:53, 6/10/2000, (#81) Gemini, momo, 12:43:05, 6/09/2000, (#69) ConnieToo and mono, Gemini, 13:33:38, 6/09/2000, (#73) So then.., Seashell, 11:57:15, 6/09/2000, (#63) Well.., 1000Sparks, 12:22:11, 6/09/2000, (#67) It is possible, sebastian, 12:55:08, 6/09/2000, (#70) Ryder, Gemini, 13:26:41, 6/09/2000, (#71) Sparks, Gemini, 13:39:16, 6/09/2000, (#74) Hi, Milenko_154, 13:47:20, 6/09/2000, (#75) Another possibility, Seashell, 14:59:24, 6/09/2000, (#77) LHP & money, & the gold club, Zandra, 15:09:25, 6/09/2000, (#78) LHP CLEANS UP, chebrock, 19:10:33, 6/09/2000, (#79) LHP's allegations and opinions, docg, 19:51:34, 6/09/2000, (#80) chebrock, Gemini, 19:34:26, 6/10/2000, (#82) For the life , momo, 19:46:23, 6/10/2000, (#83) Well mono ..., Gemini, 19:51:10, 6/10/2000, (#84) and mono, Gemini, 20:02:30, 6/10/2000, (#86) uh oh, dixie, 19:58:17, 6/10/2000, (#85) Gosh Gemini, momo, 20:15:59, 6/10/2000, (#88) mono, Gemini, 18:14:57, 6/11/2000, (#96) well dixie ..., Gemini, 20:05:54, 6/10/2000, (#87) huh?, dixie, 20:18:43, 6/10/2000, (#89) Disciplinig the children, Bunnyby, 05:21:12, 6/11/2000, (#90) IMO , momo, 06:39:59, 6/11/2000, (#91) Worthless press play, Ginja, 07:38:59, 6/11/2000, (#92) Ginja, New York Lawyer, 08:12:53, 6/11/2000, (#93) Well, NYL, Ginja, 09:08:14, 6/11/2000, (#94) ................................................................... "LHP: Patsy Killed JonBenet!" Posted by New York Lawyer on 19:18:42 6/08/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:18:42, 6/08/2000 STAR June 20, 2000 WHY I BELIEVE PATSY KILLED JONBENET Ramsey's ex house keeper charges By Linda Hoffmann-Pugh I worked for John and Patsy Ramsey for a year and a half, just before JonBenet's murder. Patsy always treated me very well. We never had any arguments or fights. So it really hurts me to the core to tell the world I am convinced Patsy murdered JonBenet. But I feel I must speak out. As I watched the Ramseys announce in a televised press conference that they had passed their lie detector test, and then take on Detective Steve Thomas last week on Larry King Live, I was struck by their arrogance and Patsy's holier-than-thou attitude. The Ramseys seem to be on some kind of phony crusade, holding press conferences, appearing with Barbara Walters on 20/20 and the Today show with Katie Couric. They're doing everything they can to rehabilitate their public image. I think Patsy believes she's gotten away with murder, and she's trying to convince the world that she's a victim, too. But as someone who knows the Ramseys and their habits very well, I can say that I don't have any doubt in my mind what happened that horrible Christmas night. I believe Patsy lost her temper and killed JonBenet. Then she created an elaborate cover-up to get away with murder. I remember that awful day, December 26, 1996, when two detectives from the Boulder Police Department showed up at my house with the news that JonBenet had been killed. I still get a sick feeling in my stomach when I think about the detectives asking for handwriting samples, and telling me to print the words "Ramsey" "and hence" and worst of all, "beheaded." I broke down in tears when I wrote 'beheaded,' thinking that precious princess had had her head cut off. Over the following months, as the detectives continued to ask me questions about the Ramseys, I came to the conclusion: Patsy Ramsey had struck her little girl and then strangled her to death! Here are the five main reasons that led me to my conclusion. REASON NO. 1: The bathroom. In Detective Steve Thomas' book, he talks about his theory of the case, and says that he believes the crime began in JonBenet's bathroom. Thomas talked about inspecting JonBenet's bathroom, looking for a surface that could have crushed that child's skull. When I read what Thomas wrote it struck me -- I remember that Patsy used to take JonBenet into her bathroom to be punished! Whenever JonBenet would act up and need discipline, Patsy would take her into the bathroom attached to JonBenet's bedroom, close the door and deliver the punishment in there. I do not know what kind of punishment Patsy gave her daughter, but I do know she always did it in JonBenet's bathroom! REASON NO. 2: The handwriting During the time I worked for Patsy and John, I saw many, many examples of Patsy's handwriting. She was always leaving me a note asking me to do something, or thanking me, or whatever. The first time I saw the "ransom note" after it was released to the public, a chill ran down my spine -- to me, it looked just like Patsy's handwriting! That was my first reaction to reading the strange, rambling, three-page message. I know the authorities have said officially that they can't exclude Patsy as the author of the note. But to me, its obvious Patsy wrote it. And not only is the handwriting similar, I could almost hear her voice in some of the wording. 'Don't try and grow a brain, John,' and '...you're not the only fat cat around...,' and several other phrases all sound like they came right out of Patsy's mouth. REASON NO. 3: The broken window Another thing that made me think Patsy had staged the whole crime was the broken window in the basement. I used to clean their house three times a week. If something was broken, Patsy had me clean it up. On the morning of the murder, police found a broken window in the basement, just a few feet from the room where JonBenet's body was found. John Ramsey told the police that he had broken the window to get into the house months before when he was accidentally locked out. But I think that is a lie. If there had been broken glass in the basement, Patsy would have told me to clean it up. Another thing didn't make sense. John claimed he was locked out on that day when he supposedly broke the window. But he never used a key to come in the front or side door of the house. He always opened the garage door from his car with his remote and came in through the garage entrance. I think Patsy broke that window herself on the night she killed JonBenet to make the police think there had been an intruder, and John concocted the story about breaking the window. REASON NO. 4: Wine cellar, what wine cellar? The room where JonBenet's body was found, which has been called a wine cellar by some people, is extremely difficult to find. I worked in that house for a year and a half and was in the basement dozens of times, and I never knew that room was there! The idea that an intruder, unfamiliar with the rambling rooms and confusing passageways, could have found that room at night, in the dark, carrying a dead or unconscious JonBenet is ridiculous. Only someone who lived in the house and knew all its nooks and crannies -- like Patsy -- would have been able to find the room. REASON NO. 5: Patsy's Make-up When the police arrived at the Ramsey's house, a little after 6 A.M. on the morning of December 26, 1996, they found Patsy dressed and in full make-up. Yet, her original story was that she got out of bed and headed straight downstairs to make the coffee. When the detectives confronted her about having on make-up and being fully dressed, she claimed that she had put on her make-up because she never went anywhere without doing that first. But I was at her house on many, many mornings and I often saw Patsy piddling around in the kitchen in sweats or a robe, wearing no make-up. I was told that the clothes she was wearing were the same clothes she had worn the night before. Patsy claimed that she often wore the same clothes two days in a row. I know that's not true -- she never did that. So I asked myself, why would she lie about wearing those clothes and having on make-up? I came up with only one explanation. She'd been up all night after killing JonBenet, writing the ransom note, staging the crime scene, and creating an imaginary kidnapping. I don't know if Patsy will ever have to stand in front of a judge and answer for the crime she committed, but I do know this. God knows, and I know, who strangled that sweet, innocent little JonBenet. And whether it's in this life or the next one, Patsy's going to have to answer for it. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "...well, just tell me..." Posted by Dunvegan on 17:37:47 6/08/2000 ...where to sign up. I'M SOLD. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Who better" Posted by Ev on 17:45:31 6/08/2000 to tell us the Ramsey household routines? I'm convinced too, after reading this, if indeed these are the exact words of LHP. Patsy, you have been found out. Thanks once again, Darnay. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "OOoooooo, gosh, that one statement, " Posted by ConnieToo on 11:08:28 6/09/2000 that discipline was meted out in JBRs bathroom gave me the freaking chills. I believe the Patsy is very, very mentally unstable. I hurt for JonBenet every time something like this comes out. Why take a kid to the BATHROOM to discipline her?? Why not swat her on the butt in public, where NO ONE would have cause to suspect criminal activities? I wonder where Nedra took the Patsy to "discipline" her?? This stinks. One can only pray that Beckner will find his balls before it's too late. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Thanks NY Lawyer" Posted by sabrina on 17:46:10 6/08/2000 and thanks to Linda for speaking out. I hope she has told the police all of this. And I wish she would do some tv interviews. I hope she is your client too, she probably will be on the "to sue" list now. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Whoa Nellie . . . ." Posted by Ribaldone on 17:55:16 6/08/2000 That's quite a bit of information! "Whenever JonBenet would act up and need discipline, Patsy would take her into the bathroom attached to JonBenet's bedroom, close the door and deliver the punishment in there. I do not know what kind of punishment Patsy gave her daughter, but I do know she always did it in JonBenet's bathroom!" This statement chills me to the bone. It certainly makes me think about Patsy using "corporal punishment" on JonBenet. I guess we know who Mame needs to interview next! Thanks NYL. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. " OK NYL !" Posted by sarah on 18:00:19 6/08/2000 Thanks NYL, you deliver.. Can't Linda go out on the media curcuit and help be a spokesperson for Jon Benet? She should be able to tell her story without fear of reprisal. And please give Linda a nudge>>> Tell her we would love for her to join our forum! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Well" Posted by Starling on 17:53:34 6/08/2000 I was sold at one. But I believe John broke the window that night - not Patsy. It was his lie and that ties him into the murder as an accomplice. I can live with this theory, and that's alot coming from me. Tomorrow I may change my mind again though, Starling [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "I've said it before--" Posted by fiddler on 18:54:39 6/08/2000 there is NO WAY that window was broken for six months. I live in the same area as the Ramseys. If their window had been broken for six months, they would have had mice, chipmunks, squirrels, skunks, stray cats, and possibly deer or mountain lions in their basement. If they didn't, then that window was NOT broken for any length of time. Period. Thanks, NYL, for the new information--about JBR being punished in the bathroom. Did LHP tell you this directly? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Starling" Posted by Chris on 03:42:14 6/09/2000 I'm with you. Perhaps ole John-boy broke the window while staging and then, in a bit of a panic, thinking there might be some sign of his fingerprints, fibers or whatever, he concocted the "broken window months ago" story. He also bought himself a little more "insurance" by sneaking downstairs late the morning of the 26th to close the window. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "I believe that the Patsy broke the window..." Posted by ConnieToo on 11:13:44 6/09/2000 and that John made that statement because it was OBVIOUS to him that NO ONE could crawl through that window, unless the perp was a teeny, tiny person. Even then, as proven by LooseWitts, who crawled through that window, NO WAY could anyone have entered via that window without making scrape marks inside the undisturbed, full of undamaged spider web, window well. Patsy, I think you are good for it!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Starling" Posted by ericasf on 09:38:33 6/09/2000 I agree with you. I think that this is definitely a huge break possibly, if she is credible and not just selling her story for the money..... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "I am totally blown away" Posted by ace21214 on 18:52:06 6/08/2000 by that article. That business of Patsy disciplining JonBenet in the bathroom is the most startling information I've heard in a long time. Also, John entering through the garage using his remotewhen he's locked out. How dare these people go on TV and present themselves as innocent! I wonder if ST already knew these things.I also wonder if the BPD plan on speaking further to LHP. Let's hope so. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Wow..." Posted by Jeanilou on 18:54:54 6/08/2000 I have often wondered what the housekeeper had to say about it all and now I know. Thanks for posting it. Jeani [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "I thought LHP" Posted by Househazard on 19:02:34 6/08/2000 had nothing but nice things to say about the Ramseys before? Why wait all this time to come out and say Patsy did it? I'm not accusing her of lying, but isn't this the opposite of what she'd been saying up until now? curiouser and curiouser [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "She may" Posted by ericasf on 09:39:45 6/09/2000 Be coming out to the public now because of all of the stuff that she has read regarding her being the first suspect, from the mouths of the Ramseys... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Wait a minute..." Posted by Cutter on 19:06:45 6/08/2000 LHP: "I never knew that room was there!" I thought this woman had previously told the BPD that "the only time she had been in that room was to retrieve Christmas decorations."? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Will someone please clarify this for me?" Posted by BadSusie on 19:02:56 6/08/2000 << The room where JonBenet's body was found, which has been called a wine cellar by some people, is extremely difficult to find. I worked in that house for a year and a half and was in the basement dozens of times, and I never knew that room was there! >> I thought PMPT or Steve Thomas' book quoted Hoffman-Pugh admitting that she and her husband had been in the "wine cellar" a couple of times to get the fake Xmas trees - that that room was used for storage of the trees. Do I have the rooms confused, or what? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Cutter and BadSusie are both right.." Posted by Jeanilou on 19:15:10 6/08/2000 Before we jump on the LHP bandwagon, she did say she had been in the room to retrieve Xmas trees. I had forgotten this. Jeani [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 76. "The Room" Posted by cstuart on 14:13:36 6/09/2000 >Before we jump on the LHP bandwagon, >she did say she had been >in the room to retrieve Xmas >trees. In the Boyles thread she clarifies; she says she had worked there thirteen months before she ever went in that room. First time was November 1996. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "I wonder" Posted by darby on 19:16:44 6/08/2000 if LHP ever heard loud arguing, crying or screaming from the closed bathroom when Patsy disciplined JBR there. I wonder if the punishments were administered there even when there was no reason to bring the child to the bathroom. NYL, did LHP tell you any more about this? I wonder if LHP is right that John lied about the window, saying that he had broken it long before. If so, what would be the reason? Wouldn't the Rs have been trying to make the cops think an intruder did it? Was there something about that broken window that made the cops know that an intruder couldn't have done it that night? Perhaps the intact spider web? I think Patsy is possibly "good for it," but it's hard for me to understand how she could have gotten from rage to garrote-tying before swelling or major bleeding could occur. It's possible, however. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Darby-" Posted by Chickadee on 06:08:03 6/09/2000 "I wonder if the punishments were administered there even when there was no reason to bring the child to the bathroom." That's how I interpret LHP's statement. Didn't I once read that John didn't allow Patsy to discipline JB? I had the impression that this was a bone of contention between the Rams.Perhaps LHP would know about this.She may even have been the source of that info.I don't recall.If that's the case,did John think Patsy's methods were inappropriate? Did Patsy pull JB into a private area where her discipline couldn't be witnessed? I have to wonder how Patsy herself was disciplined as a child.Was she perpetuating what was done to her? >I wonder if LHP is right that >John lied about the window, saying >that he had broken it long >before. If so, what would be >the reason? Wouldn't the Rs >have been trying to make the >cops think an intruder did it? > Was there something about that >broken window that made the cops >know that an intruder couldn't have >done it that night? Perhaps >the intact spider web? My feeling is that the window was broken to give the impression of an intruder.JR did originally tell the cops he had locked and checked all the doors, making the broken window appear to be the only possible entry point.But you're right.Something suddenly caused JR to claim he had broken the window.Spider webs?Dust on the sill? Something made it obvious that an intruder did not crawl through that window on Christmas eve. >I think Patsy is possibly "good for >it," but it's hard for me >to understand how she could have >gotten from rage to garrote-tying before >swelling or major bleeding could occur. > It's possible, however. Patsy on LKL- "And where was I supposed to have learned how to tie this garotte?" Maybe the garotte already existed,pre-fashioned by another member member of the household.Just a thought. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 95. "Chick...perhaps Burke was practicing" Posted by seenal on 11:27:29 6/11/2000 how to tie a knot, maybe he was whittling on the broken paintbrush and made a "weapon." Wasnt Burke a boy scout??? Perhaps he did this playing in the basement and it was the only thing Patsy could find to help her stage JBR's strangulation. Help someone, wasnt Burke a boy-scout?? That "weapon" certainly could've been assembled earlier, months before the crime. It just happened to be in the basement, and the basement is where Burke played ..... (((Maybe the garotte already existed,pre-fashioned by another member member of the household.Just a thought.))) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Hmmm....curiouser" Posted by janphi on 19:19:13 6/08/2000 I thought LHP had said all these things before, except for the secret bathroom punishment and the garage remote opener. And I thought they had all been refuted some way or another (I know, I know, Ramspin) in the media. As far as the window, do we have to believe then that Patsy went outside that night and broke that window, so the glass would shatter inward? She moved the grate and did what, take a baseball bat to it? Couldn't the police have been able to tell that day if the broken edges had been weathered or not? I always thought that was a given--that the window checked out forensically as having been broken 6 months before. Of course, I also thought there was an innocent explanation that the people putting up the outside Xmas decorations had taken a shortcut and decided to open the window and pass the wreaths and stuff out through the window--maybe standing on a suitcase or something, also tracking some packing peanuts in and out, too--rather than having to traipse all the way up the stairs and out the doors every time. I just figured no one had been down there since they put the stuff up at Thanksgiving, at least not in that part of the basement, and if they had, these were not things they would have noticed before. Also, they've run stories before saying she didn't know where that wine cellar was, then they ran a story saying she never said that, then they ran one saying it was another housekeeper, not LHP, who didn't know where the wine cellar was. I'm confused on that one. But I do know that's why Patsy started off all the book appearances saying the house was not hard to get around in and the wine cellar wasn't hard to find. It didn't appear hard to find on TV, either, because you came downstairs and the floor plan sort of led straight to it. The main thing that strikes me is that this must have leaked out recently, because the other day on an unnamed forum, for no reason at all, a certain LH posted about Patsy saying she personally had cleaned up the glass from the time John broke the window! Why was she refuting this ahead of time? Gotta chew on this awhile. Thanks, Darnay. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "For a good laugh....." Posted by sabrina on 19:26:04 6/08/2000 Visit the swamp, wow is it ever sTinKy....they think LHP and Mervin are guilty of the crime! (Even though there is not one shred of evidence!) Must have been the resemblence of sketchman to Mervin, and Dorothy's mention of the name, Irving (rhymes with Mervin) Or maybe because LHP borrowed money from Patsy? I just realized why NYL posts there too. He likes to see all the feathers ruffled! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "So, this is the big announcement" Posted by AutumnBorn on 19:27:39 6/08/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:27:39, 6/08/2000 due on Boyles tomorrow! Cool! I'll stay up all night to listen so I don't miss a word of what's said. I always thought that Patsy had taken JonBenet into the basement to punish her after hearing that (rumor?) that only John was allowed to punish JonBenet. I thought she probably took her down there to give her a spanking or something and it got out of hand. And what about the rumor (?) that only John was allowed to punish JB, not Patsy? I remember reading that here or on another forum and I was really confused. If that were the case, there had to have been some reason for it (violence). Perhaps that explains why it had to be hidden in the bathroom. Edited to add: And this could explain one reason that JB used the bed as a bathroom...too many bad memories associated with that toilet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Mercy" Posted by Anderson on 19:58:30 6/08/2000 That article is sure to put a bee in somebodys bonnet. As far as someone having to go outside to break that window, I don't think that would have been necessary. Those windows were on vertical hinges and opened inward. It would have been very easy to open the window, break it inwards, and close it back. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "NYL" Posted by Cutter on 20:03:48 6/08/2000 Hopefully NYL will return and read this thread, so tomorrow on Boyles he can clarify the story of LHP being in the room getting xmas decor. Otherwise the whole story looks fabricated by someone who knows nothing about what has already been established and published. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Xmas decorations." Posted by New York Lawyer on 20:09:27 6/08/2000 Linda has always maintained that it wasn't until a few weeks before the murder (i.e., Thanksgiving) that she realized, after nearly a year and a half working for the Ramseys, that there was a "wine cellar." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "NYL, that story doesn't "wash"." Posted by BadSusie on 09:13:30 6/09/2000 << Linda has always maintained that it wasn't until a few weeks before the murder (i.e., Thanksgiving) that she realized, after nearly a year and a half working for the Ramseys, that there was a "wine cellar." >> If LHP worked for the Ramseys for a year and a half (she's also been known to say it was 13 months this still applies), she would have been employed by them during at least 2 Xmas seasons. Defining the term "Xmas season" as it relates to the "lady of the house", it's the time of the year at which Xmas trees and decorations are put up and put away - generally the day after Thanksgiving until the day after New Year's Day. This would mean that even if LHP wasn't present for the 1995 Xmas decorating, she WOULD have been present for putting those Xmas decorations AWAY, and it's been established that the Xmas decorations were stored in the "wine cellar" that she now claims she didn't know existed until 1996). And by her own words, she claims that she worked for the Ramseys for 13 to 18 months. Either way, she would have been present for at least part of the 1995 Xmas season and all of the 1996 Xmas season. If my math is wrong here, please correct me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Windows" Posted by Househazard on 20:09:43 6/08/2000 There are ways to tell if a window has been broken from the inside or out. It seems to me, that if the window is broken from the inside, the glass will fall to the inside and vice versa. I read this years ago. I may have to go and verify. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "oh my" Posted by Gemini on 20:16:22 6/08/2000 i guess somebody else needs some new teeth ... or Linda's clan wants to go on vacation ... or something. Egad! Bet L H-P is the focus of Darnay's new lawsuit info to be announced on Boyles tomorrow. After all, the tabloid goose won't be laying golden eggs forever. May as well go for the pot. Has this case become the principle source of their income? Is there anything this crew would not do for money? hmmmm ... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Punished to DEATH" Posted by johnlin on 20:20:26 6/08/2000 Yes, I read the whole of LHP's article; Thank you, Darnay. Though there is a bit of confusion about knowledge of "that" room, I have NO doubt in my mind that what Linda has come forward and said was extremely telling: About how Patsy could 'control' her emotions long enough to defer her punishments to JonBenet long enough to get her to the bathroom. Notice that LHP said that the Bathroom was used for JonBenet's punishments, not necesarily a bed-wet here! We're talking about Patsy who could hold and simmer that anger, then bring JB into a private area where God-knows-what went on. If a parent was bent on some type of corporal punishment, like a spanking, etc., then it'd likely take place pretty much at the scene of the wrongdoing (unless being out of earshot of others was a consideration). No, I believe she was also OUT OF SIGHT AND EARSHOT, within JonBenet's own bathroom, in a large HellHole of a house. JonBenet likely screamed when whatever punishments occurred, and only the walls know (maybe Burke, too). Now I firmly believe there is a VERY direct tie-in between JB's wetting and occasional soiling those months prior to the murder. LHP certainly told it like it is when describing the Patsy SHE saw, versus the Patsy that Patsy wants us to see. I believe there is a very sick part of Patsy; sick in the sense she "needed" to punish JB in the manner she did. Even if JB was acting bratty or the like, the punishment we can only imagine certainly does not fit the crime. For Patsy to hold that anger and premeditate the course of punishment, lets us in on a very different picture of her. And, what really DID go on in that bathroom, anyway? We can only speculate, but I have a gut sense it wasn't just a whack on the behind. I believe there were sexual overtones to the punishments (flame away if you want). Our long-time warrior for Justice, and poet for the forum, Nikki, has often described Patsy as the "chameleon." Linda HP has just given us very good reason to PROVE Nikki's accurate hypothesis. Now we know more, and it is extremely disheartening and downright sickening: JonBenet suffered even more than we imagined before. Mrs Rac...we need that bright light to dispel the darkness for good. Justice for the abused and murdered child, who was a beautiful creation from God except to those she trusted most..... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Wait a minute..." Posted by mary99 on 20:35:00 6/08/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 20:35:00, 6/08/2000 If the writing in the ransom note looked and sounded just like Patsy, and Patsy did and said all these incriminating things which were at odds with LHP's perception of the truth(like the makeup and clothes) why wasn't LHP's testimony before the GJ enough to have PR indicted?? If LHP told the GJ about the garage door entry preferred by JR, and how PR would have had LHP clean up any broken glass right away, and the fact that PR never wore the same clothes day after day, and didn't put makeup on first thing in the morning, and punished JB in the bathroom off JB's bedroom, why wasn't the GJ convinced that PR was the killa?? Or were they? We don't know, but I do know this: for PR to cleverly stage a fake kidnapping and write a long, chatty ransom note in her own linguistic style, doesn't ring true to me. WHY is LHP coming out now to damn PR as the murderer? She knew all these things before the Thomas and LKL interviews, she knew that the story they gave wasn't the truth, so why wait till now? Did she testify before the GJ? Is she breaking the gag order issued by the judge not to speak of any evidence or testimony she may have given? If she wasn't called, why not? If there is truly a sex ring connection, which I do suspect, is Patsy now willing to take the rap for the murder as the lesser of two evils, namely, letting the entire shameful and ugly truth come out? Could LHP actually have been ASKED or PAID OFF by the Ramseys to deliver this 'coup de gras'? Surely the Ramseys have never looked as guilty as they have lately. Surely JR has never gone to such lengths to let his wife hang herself, yet they keep doing it!! Yes, I believe PR wrote the note, and yes, it sure sounds like her, just by the common phrases and the familiarity alone. But WHY would she not have adopted a different 'voice' as the author? She's not a stupid person, given her magna cum laude in journalism. Whether she ranks as a great intellect is irrelevant. Anyone with half a brain would not have written such an incriminating note, full of Patsyisms and totally unneccessary directives. My personal conclusion: Patsy was FORCED to write this note, and it was dictated to her in her own 'voice', in words and phrases she would use. Think of the heart on JB's hand, another Patsyism. The heart has always puzzled me because PR had nothing to gain and everything to lose by drawing the heart, and DENYING she drew it when questioned. If she drew it post crime, forgetting the implication of post-crime remorse, why didn't she lie, as she has so frequently, and say she put it on JonBenet as she tucked her into bed? The note by design points to PR. The heart points to Patsy. The crime is staged. PR staged a crime while framing herself? No, I don't think so. I think she was forced to write that note, and told what to write. I think her double-speak for the last three years has been an indirect accusation against the killas she is afraid to name, for fear of retribution. I think it was planned all along that PR would take the rap if there was a 'rap' forthcoming. Due to the intricate web of evidence contamination, BPD screwups, go-get-em cops vs. a plodding DA, a weirdo pediatrician right out of 'Rosemary's Baby', all topped off with a Dream Team of politically connected attorneys whose purpose has always been to stonewall the investigation, PR has been VERY lucky. With the recent investigation into The Witness's allegations, irregardless of the report delivered by the BPD, clearing certain people of one thing but not another, if the Ramseys were involved in any illicit activity, they are worried and have good reason to be. They are probably telling PR right now that there's a good chance she won't be prosecuted successfully if charges are filed. BUT, that will close the book on the infamous murder of JBR, just as the OJ trial closed the book on the double murders of NB and RG. I suppose if one is acquitted, the case remains open, but the fact is, nobody at the LAPD is looking for the real killas. Nor will the BPD be looking for the real killas if PR is charged, tried and aquitted. And as she recently stated that she believes the killer and the author of the note are one and the same, I have to believe the opposite is true. She KNOWS the writing style and the handwriting are hers, therefore is she admitting she killed JBR? No, I believe she is indicating that if she is found to be the author of the ransom note through text analysis and handwriting analysis, she would rather serve time for a murder she didn't commit than have the real truth come out. She would rather take the rap for killing JBR than have the whole world know the depraved secrets JR and his friends shared. LHP was portrayed poorly in many books about the murder before the LKL and Thomas interviews. She has filed no lawsuit on behalf of her daughter, Adriana, which is a dead giveaway, to me, that there were behind the scenes negotiations. As ludicrous as it sounds, it's possible LHP has been positioned as the new 'star witness' for the prosecution, while helping the Ramsey defense to convict PR. JR would not protest if PR was charged, he would continue to assert he was asleep and yet knows PR didn't kill JB. IOW, he's saying it's not true while offering her up as the murderer. If FW has been deemed to be tainted as the 'star witness', and therefor unuseable, LHP can try to put PR away. It may not work, but it will end the investigation whether PR is found guilty or not. And no sex ring allegations need ever come up!!! This would suit both the BPD and the Ramsey defense. If PR is willing to take her chances before a jury to end the FW/MW speculation, there's a good chance she'll be acquitted. The incriminating aspects of the crime which point to PR look more like framing to me. Nothing belonging to JR was used in the commission of the crime, and that seems purposeful to me. Only a real dummy would have used their own legal pad, when JR had several. Patsy wrote the note, she was forced to do it, and LHP is now helping JR to send PR to prison. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Help me Jeezzusss" Posted by starry on 20:32:05 6/08/2000 Will this case ever come to a conclusion? I just read three threads. A Burke done it thread. A PR done it thread. A Sex Ring involving FW. My head is spinning! Thanks, Darnay for the heads up. I hope PB comes in clearly tomorrow. Should be a good one. Someday, somehow, there will be Justice for JonBenet. I've just got to hold on to that. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Garage opener" Posted by Luvsa Mystery on 21:07:46 6/08/2000 This is not the first time LHP has said that John always used the garage door opener to enter the home. She said that before and that the door from the garage into the house was never locked. This is not new, I read that somewhere, (must have been online) within the past few months. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "LHP" Posted by Aurora on 21:23:08 6/08/2000 I think the housekeeper knows the routine and the people of the household better than most people. I believe ...everything she revealed. Why now? Maybe because ..the ante has been upped...to ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. if she can help get that conviction...The National Enquirer would make her a RICH woman. Wonder how many others will come forward with what they know...now that $$$$$ ..BIG $$$$ ...is involved for the one that gives the information that can convict the murderer of.. JBR. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Patsy's intellect & message for Homeboy" Posted by sally denver on 21:45:32 6/08/2000 May have scored well in school, but I think she's a druggie and nothing will reduce to old brain power like drugs or drink. Somehow I don't see Patsy as the great scholar but rather a conniver. PS Homeboy: "holy Smit" I think the LHP statement is a bombshell. I do remember, however a witness in the OJ case who was eliminated because she gave an interview to a tab - wouldn't LPH's story disqualify her as a witness for the state?? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Not smart enough" Posted by frankg on 21:38:52 6/08/2000 I thought LHP wasn't educated enough to write the ransom note, but she can author the quotes in this article? Hmm Didn't LHP work only twice a week? If so then how does she KNOW Patsy never wore the same clothes two days in a row? I'm not saying she did or didn't, but how can LHP be so sure? Aurora; great... offer her a million and now suddenly she can remember bad things - and that's a good thing? Hell, for a million even I might be able to remember a couple of things. So has she been lying all this time or withholding evidence? I'm pretty certain nothing has ever been said about this closed door bathroom discipline before now. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Not only that" Posted by Luvsa Mystery on 21:34:01 6/08/2000 That sketch looks alot like LHP's hubby, Mervin. LHP may feel that P&R are still trying to throw them under the bus. Fighting fire with fire? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Thanks, NYL" Posted by Seashell on 22:24:07 6/08/2000 Something doesn't feel quite right about this. It's not just the knowledge/lack thereof of the little wine cellar. I can't put my finger on it, but I do strongly feel that Pats would not have done the whole crime alone and then call the cops on herself. Nor would she have pointed at herself, Burke and JAR and not JR. Nope! Mary 99, that was an awesome post. I doubt she was made to write it at gunpoint - I'm not convinced she wrote it at all - but something happened, something was decided by someone that Patsy would be the fall guy, most likely becuz she's NOT the killer, so even if indicted, she'd never be convicted, and the hunt then for the killer would be adjourned to the golf course. There's something horribly sinister about this crime; something very twisted and dark and ugly. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "In Another Forum Far, Far Away from Reality" Posted by AutumnBorn on 22:58:42 6/08/2000 I'm reading lots of defensiveness regarding how Patsy (in particular) parented their children and it's being said that she never "punished" their children. Is it just me or does this strike other people as an absolute falsehood? Are there children in the world that never need to be punished once in awhile? And where can I find one for myself or to at least hold up as an icon for my own children to emulate? Are they trying to say that those kids were sooooo well behaved that there was never a reason, or that Pats was too lazy and didn't give a rats arse about their behavior? Patsy never once raised her voice to her children? I'm as close to June Cleaver as a mother can come (I've even worn my pearls and high heels to vacuum after my husband accused me of being June) and I admit, I've had to raise my voice to my children, put them in time out, send them to their rooms, even smacked their bums once or twice - OMG, somebody call DCFS on me before I break their (evil) little spirits. If Patsy was too lazy to correct her children, then they must have been hell to live with. Do you all have children who don't need an attitude adjustment once in awhile? Am I doing something wrong? Should I hang up my apron and send the kids off to boarding school? I was just kidding about the evil part, of course. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "Autumn" Posted by Luvsa Mystery on 07:28:17 6/09/2000 I agree. Anyone who fails to discipline their children do so out of a LACK of love, (the bible even calls it hatred.) If you love them, you correct them, even if they despise you for it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Luvs-" Posted by Chickadee on 06:35:34 6/09/2000 I think the implication was that JR did the punishing because he didn't approve of Patsy's methods...not that the kiddies weren't disciplined. My daughter always said I was an "Elyse Keaton" mom, and like Mallory,she couldn't win an arguement :-) Don't ship the kids off,Luvs.They're fine.It's the Eddie Haskells you have to watch out for ;-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "You may be" Posted by Gemini on 22:38:05 6/08/2000 That sketch looks alot like LHP's hubby, Mervin. LHP may feel that P&R are still trying to throw them under the bus. Fighting fire with fire? right, luvsa, but I suspect it's simply dat ol' debil, greed. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Gem" Posted by Luvsa Mystery on 07:01:16 6/09/2000 You mean The LOVE of money is the root of all evil? Don't get me wrong -- I put zero stock in psychic powers. I just think the Pughs may have felt the posting of that sketch was another deliberate attempt by the Rs (in their never ending campaign) to direct suspicion away from themselves and onto anyone else. I think posting that sketch is the lowest thing the Rs have done since 12/25-26/96. Who can blame LHP if she has lost faith in Patsy's saintliness? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 72. "luvsa'" Posted by Gemini on 13:28:46 6/09/2000 I'm pretty sure "love of money" is an element of "greed". See my reply to Ryder, below. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "I know I'm biased but" Posted by Starling on 22:42:55 6/08/2000 that sketch looks alot more like Mr. John-boy Ramsey than anyone case connected - including Mervin Pugh. It's a no brainer, Star [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "The sentiments in this article" Posted by sds on 05:10:38 6/09/2000 may be those of LHP, but don't tell me that she wrote it. It obviously was written by a staffer and LHP's name attached to it. I don't understand what she has to gain now by having this published, except being another person sued by the Ramseys. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "MAYBE THAT'S THE ROOM JB HATED!" Posted by Cassandra on 05:20:19 6/09/2000 THE BATHROOM. THAT COULD HELP EXPLAIN HER TOILETING ISSUES, TOO. SHE DIDN'T WANT TO GO IN THERE. Cassie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "Why would JonBenet allow *any* adult to help her in the bathroom?" Posted by Dunvegan on 07:04:35 6/09/2000 ...perhaps because JBR would rather have anyone help her, anyone at all...just as long as it wasn't Patsy alone with her in the bathroom. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Who was it that said JR " Posted by Cassandra on 06:53:29 6/09/2000 instructed them that only he could punish JB? If true, I wonder why. Was it a housekeeper? Was it LHP? I always found it a strange comment. If true, I wondered why he gave those instructions. Cassie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "patsy did it!" Posted by tall-p on 09:21:29 6/09/2000 During the time I worked for Patsy and John, I saw many, many examples of Patsy's handwriting. She was always leaving me a note asking me to do something, or thanking me, or whatever. The first time I saw the "ransom note" after it was released to the public, a chill ran down my spine -- to me, it looked just like Patsy's handwriting! How incriminating! I wish we could find some of these old notes that were so similar. This case! Patsy and John just can't let it go, and neither can we. At first, when they passed the polygraph, I was impressed, because I thought that they were hard to pass, especially for the murder of your own child. But when you see her, and him, it is deja vu all over again. She is lying. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "TallP," Posted by BadSusie on 11:03:46 6/09/2000 << I wish we could find some of these old notes that were so similar. >> MaskedMan claims, on the Webbsleuths board, that he has some of those notes in his possession, given to him by LHP. He promised to post one this morning, but hasn't done so. (I'm not holding my breath). He makes the same claim on Jameson's board, and promised to e-mail a copy to one of the other posters. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "Gemini, excellent point!" Posted by mary99 on 08:31:45 6/09/2000 Hey, you're right on the money with your comment that the Pughs may be doing this for that milion dollar reward...and yes, in the OJ case, SEVERAL good witnessses were excluded from testifying because they talked to the tabloids or the talk shows first. If LHP is now embroidering her account or 'remembering' things she 'forgot' until now, with the hope of becoming the star witness, and therby putting PR away and reaping the reward, it taints her testimony to the point of being useable and therefore irrelevent...even if it's the TRUTH! The whole point of the reward is to sell more Enquirers and bring more loonies out of the woodwork to present to the public as 'new developments' which may lead to the 'arrest and conviction' of the killa. I don't see how justice will be served if all the numerous case-related witnesses start 'remembering' or decide to come forward with 'new evidence' to get their hands on that reward money. More than likely, they hurt the cause of justice but raising the question -- Why didn't they tell what they knew earlier insteading of withholding key testimony till now? And if what they said earlier was complete and truthful, then they impeach themselves by adding and amending to their earlier statements...for the love of money. IMO, LHP should have gone to the BPD and not the Enquirer, if she has more to say on the subject of the Ramseys behavior or lies. What about the GJ gag order? The only people whom the Enquirer is seeking out for evidence-gathering, IMO, would be the people at the White's 'after-party' if there was one, who could attest to the truthfulness of MW's statements and the presence of the woman from CA and her niece, at the White party, which contradicts the statements collected by the BPD in their 'investigation'. If there was a sexual abuser at the White's party who later told MW she knows who killed JBR, confirmation of THAT from an as-yet unknown source will blow this case wide open. Let's hope they contact the right law enforcement agency first and after an arrest and conviction, go after the reward money. It's too bad that there are people who could shed light on this who choose to remain silent, but if the offer by a tabloid of a million dollar reward prompts them to step forward and spill the beans, maybe that's the only way to ever learn the truth. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Mary" Posted by Luvsa Mystery on 09:36:01 6/09/2000 LHP would have a better chance of becoming rich if she bought a couple lottery tickets than to try and collect that reward like this. The odds are nil that Patsy would be convicted on flimsy testimony such as this. Now, if LHP was after the $$$ she'd have said something like that she once saw Patsy choking JB or that she found a garotte like device in the Ramsey night stand drawer or noticed strange marks on JB's neck. We all can think well of a person, speak well of them and then later be convinced that that person was not the person we'd thought they were. With new insights into the Rs personalities (via media appearances) and upon reflection, I think LHP began to wonder if perhaps those discipline trips to the bathroom were so innocent after all. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Hate to point this out" Posted by pat on 08:27:55 6/09/2000 but memories from my childhood which was extensive and still ongoing at age 58 are that many of my friends had moms who took them to the bathroom to punish,,often a spanking. In fact I think some parents still do this to give "talking toos" and stern words. Why the bathroom? I guess nobody had woodsheds anymore by the forties and fifties. I will ask around but I think this may be a common practice esp in the deep south. Anyone else to weigh in on this???? Also a housekeeper knows how many clothes you wear as they do the laundary and ironing if LHP did. My housekeeper even told me when to get a new toothbrush. There are no secrets from housekeepers even if they come twice a week. They know how many pairs of everything you wear that are dirty. Esp if you don't have a clothes hamper,,patsy is the only person I ever knew with out a hamper. Now that is weird. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Great thread...." Posted by Country Girl on 08:53:53 6/09/2000 I've never believed the broken window story. To me, it never passed the laugh test. I'm certainly no millionaire and don't live in snow country, and I would never leave a window broken for months! Even if varmits couldn't get through, the insects would! And, lets follow the logic of breaking a basement window if you're locked out. Never heard of a locksmith? Or, what about the so-called hidden key because the front door always locked behind them? But John picks a basement window with a grate over it, crawls down through a filthy window sill and then leaves it for months? Is this logical? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Pat" Posted by mary99 on 08:38:50 6/09/2000 Now that's a good point about the use of the bathroom replacing the woodshed as a cultural custom. The tiled walls make a bathroom more soundproof and people don't just 'walk on in' to a bathroom when the door's closed. As for PR not needing a hamper, it's because she's WEARING all her dirty clothes! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "new thought" Posted by pat on 09:52:49 6/09/2000 Mary,,,you made me laugh about pats always wearing her dirty clothes. But I suddenly thought,,she was in full makeup. but after a few hours my lipstick is gone and I look bedraggled. I wonder how good her make up looked that am. Did this woman after murdering, cleaning the body , setting up that sick scene, writing a ransom tome, etc then go upstairs and touch up her make up before calling the cops. That blows me away,,the fantasy of patsy putting on lipstick, freshening her mascara and touching up her rouge. I guess some gals just wanta look good no matter what. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "Pat, to add to your thought" Posted by Andrea on 11:14:03 6/09/2000 I have been thinking about the makeup issue recently. My thought is that if PR did do this, accidental or not, she would probably have been crying on and off, and hysterically at times, thus ruining her makeup. Plus, makeup tends to wear off after several hours of being up and about, usually during the day but the same goes for night time. If she did this alone as ST theorizes, she would have to look "fresh" in the morning to fool JR, and to make it look like she got up and put on new makeup. But, you would think he would notice the day old clothes, but maybe not. Because the first time he supposedly saw PR that morning is when she called to him about the note, he probably would have overlooked what she was wearing, but he would have noticed if she had cried all her makeup off. Or, maybe, it was for appearance's sake for the police and to fit the story that she was about to tell them. Maybe, she didn't always put on her makeup before coming downstairs, but there were going to be lots of people in her house that day, including her friends. She had to look her best. However, you would think her friends who had seen her the night before would notice that she still had on the same clothes from the Christmas party. Am I grasping here or do these scenarios possibly make some sense? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "I Know!" Posted by Lacey on 10:57:28 6/09/2000 Maybe LHP should take a lie detector test!! Eh? Actually, I'm trying to find all the stuff she's ever said to see if there's anything contradictory in either The Star article or in what she said on Boyles this morning. And I had to laugh at this one-- If LHP is now embroidering her account or 'remembering' things she 'forgot' until now, with the hope of becoming the star witness, and therby putting [FILL IN BLANK, lol] away and reaping the reward, it taints her testimony to the point of being useable and therefore irrelevent. I think this is some kind of rich subliminal message, some of you could actually substitute your beloved MW for LHP in that sentence and there you have it! Lacey . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "Lacey" Posted by fly on 11:15:48 6/09/2000 Lacey - You trying to stir up trouble already? LOL, but you're right about the possible substitution. I don't think you need to look too far to find a contradiction. Try comparing her statement about chills when she first saw the note and her statement about Coffman convincing her that the note looked like PR's writing. :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "Thanks, yes" Posted by Lacey on 11:36:10 6/09/2000 LOL fly, SOMEBODY'S got to do it. When I see a lapse of logic I try to point it out as a matter of public service. I don't want no trouble Anyway, re LHP, I'm trying to compile a list but I haven't gotten too far, yet. It looks like she denied the similarities 'til Coffman sat down and dare I say reasoned it out with her. I can't tell whether she is making these assertions with real conviction or if she has been led a little.. certainly, she did not write this article herself. In any case, there really doesn't seem to be any hostility backing her revelations. It looks like she just finally got the 411 on da Ramseys. (And when she did, The Star was there....................) I wonder when she made up her mind about all this. And I rrrreally wonder if she has anything relevant to contribute at this point. Lace . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "I disagree with some of the statements you made.." Posted by ConnieToo on 12:07:33 6/09/2000 >>If the writing in the ransom note looked and sounded just like Patsy, and Patsy did and said all these incriminating things which were at odds with LHP's perception of the truth(like the makeup and clothes) why wasn't LHP's testimony before the GJ enough to have PR indicted??<< What makes you think she testified to any of that at the GJ proceedings? With as careful as Hunter was to not present relevant evidence, don't you think that he would have quashed any questioning relative to the Patsy's guilt?? >>But WHY would she not have adopted a different 'voice' as the author?<< She thought she had! She was a small foreign faction, not the Patsy, when she wrote that note. She was also stressed out, getting old, and taking sass from JBR, who was trying to assert her independence. This one isn't a great leap of faith. >>LHP was portrayed poorly in many books about the murder before the LKL and Thomas interviews. She has filed no lawsuit on behalf of her daughter, Adriana, which is a dead giveaway, to me, that there were behind the scenes negotiations.<< With whom?? The Ramseys were not behind the incident that jamscum foisted on the Pughs. IMHO, hir doesn't have enough money to make a lawsuit worthwhile for the amount that would be taken by a percentage basis attorney. Furthermore, the Pughs were and are POOR! They probably didn't realize that they could GO to an attorney w/o spending money they didn't have. OF all the people in this sad excuse for a murder case, I feel sorry for the Pughs. Linda was the Patsy's friend. She was invited to the funeral, after being thrown under the bus by the Patsy. Somehow, I find these attacks on Marvin, Linda and Ariadne Pugh scurrilous in the extreme. They are not sophisticates, and I'd be willing to be that Linda considered herself a friend of the Patsy's, even when she'd been thrown under the bus. whatev thankyouverymuch [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "I have a question" Posted by Ryder on 11:03:25 6/09/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:03:25, 6/09/2000 Actually a question and some comment on this. It has been stated that this sketch and the psychic's account of what she "vibed into" are old recycled "NEWS". I would like to know if there was any public reaction from LHP at the time that this stuff first surfaced. BTW, is the transcript over at the Boyles thread complete? Or just bits and pieces? I had gotten the impression that the entire thing had not been transcribed. While the sketch could be anybody and the psychic's account doesn't lead to any particular person (BTW - I DON'T BELIEVE IN PSYCHICS) I think that, if one WERE to give credibility to this psychic stuff - one's best bet of the person behind the portrait (sketch and account) would be LHP's husband. He is the one who most resembles the sketch, I think, and the business about "handyman" fixing windows etc. points to him. No doubt this was also clear to both the Rams & the LHP family. SO, I can understand some defensive reaction from LHP. That is why I want to know if when this material previously surfaced, there was any public reaction from LHP. That said, LHP's statements regarding the existence of the room, ARE consistent. AS someone pointed out here - she said that she did not know of its existence prior to NOV of 1996. IF LHP was out to strike back at the Ramseys because they have put out information implicating her husband (BTW they have indeed done that, IMO) by fabricating anything, I would expect her current version to be much more damning to the Ramseys than what is the case. She is still claiming that Patsy WAS kind to her back then. There is also NO denying that when asked for suspects, PR immediately gave Linda's name. I don't see much in this Star article that is so earth-shattering. LHP's latest reactions appear to be triggered by the LKL interview and the focus which ST puts on the bathroom. Her statements regarding this ARE the most interesting part of this but only earth-shattering to anyone who has never believed Patsy capable of getting very angry at any of her children. BTW, for whatever it's worth, the psychic also appeared to zero in on the bathroom. I do think that regarding Patsy's habit of wearing clothes 2 days in a row, a housekeeper's word would be a good bet. It doesn't matter that she may have only worked there every 2 or 3 days. Anyone who does the laundry on a regular basis, knows how often people change their clothes and would thus know what people's habits are in this area. Patsy's move to repeating the same wardrobe for the cameras, even recently is one of the dummest attempts at denying fact that has ever been paraded in front of the public. AND it is very suspicious. Much more so, I would contend, than the original facts surrounding her wardrobe on the 25th - 26th. What may well have incited LHP to action now is that in the LKL interview, she was put face to face with the Thomas-Ramsey war and she may feel sympathetic to Thomas + (most importantly) she saw the Ramseys lie on LKL. In addition to this, it may well have occurred to her that, as a result of that interview,(which by the way, is reported to have swayed more people into believing in Ram guilt) the Rams went into a state of panic and just like on the 26th - guess who they first attempt to put under that bus? Not LHP this time, but her husband. Certainly, if you are sitting there, after having been checked out by the police, and someone appears to be pointing their finger at you (however indirectly) whereas THEY are accused of the crime and while THEY clearly lie to the nation on TV, I think that would give anyone some strong suspicion that the person seeking to scapegoat you is the true guilty party. It also seems clear to me that LHP is being egged on to the public scene (and I'm not criticizing anyone here since I do believe that the latest move by the Rams IS to put LHP's husband under the bus - as witnessed by the buzzing at the OTHER forum) so I don't view her as aggressively out to get the Rams. We, the public, notice that every time the Rams go out in yet another limb on the media circus, they just dig themselves in further. I've often wondered what the close acquaintances and family members thought about all of this. We have had evidence of a reaction from one of their detectives. Now here is the reaction of the housekeeper. There will be more. In reading the Boyles transcript (thanks Byron), I think the testimony is interesting but not earth-shattering. Not to me anyway. The bathroom scene, as depicted by the Thomas hypothesis continues to be, IMO, a much more likely scenario than the sex-ring theory. And I think there are other possible credible scenarios here, but sorry mary99, the porn ring is not one of them, IMO. Of course, the latter is the more sensational and clearly evil of all the possibilities thus far presented, but as I've said before this story is not about demons or saints. It is about something much more common than that: the lengths to which people will go to camouflage or hide any possible damage to their reputations. Now, people who are clearly into a fanatic mode regarding the latter, may not have been able to control their temper one fateful night over something serious or insignificant, but they are not likely to be participants in a child porn sex ring. These are just my instincts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "nonononono" Posted by Gemini on 11:41:41 6/09/2000 Mary, you must have confused the post authors. I don't think Linda et al is after the reward money ... I just think she and her family have allowed themselves to be used (by those with a vested interest in Ramsey guilt) for gain. In other words, I think she can be bought and for far less than one million dollars. I suspected Darnay would announce he's tacking her onto the CW lawsuit because she decided to get in on THAT act as well as the tabloid pay&print scam. It sounds like the Star really had to work with her to come up with something this time ... and, no, they wouldn't be writing any checks unless the message was damning to the Rams. Ryder, I hardly see how LH-P could have done a complete about face or retracted earlier comments very obviously. Wouldn't that have put her in jeopardy in regard to her GJ testimony? Even now, she's probably skating on thin ice. Linda Hoffman-Pugh has 5 adult children, plus the younger daughter, according to PMPT. I feel sure they encourage her to suck off the tabloids for those extra dollas ... and I'm pretty sure the few thousand she's paid seems like a windfall all the way 'round. Never mind that it's ill gotten gains ... as I believe selling info to tabs always is (jmo, but a strong one). Certainly something to think about. Greed corrupts ... no doubt about it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "what I don't get " Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:57:41 6/09/2000 is, why didn't the Ramseys hold LHP close from the start? I mean, they've enlisted the support from some pretty odd quarters, why not the one person who frequented their quarters more than anyone? OJ did it with his housekeeper, the one that claimed Nicole slapped her. The R's could get LHP to $ay "JonBenet was incorrigible", with the same incentive they've given the rest of their flying monkeys.Hold your enemies close, and all that. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "Gem #62" Posted by Ryder on 12:20:39 6/09/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:20:39, 6/09/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:16:28, 6/09/2000 And nowhere is that greed more obvious than in Ramsey antics where the philosophy is always aiming for "how to have your cake and eat it too". The Rams claim that everyone ELSE is out to make money from this tragedy and ONLY that. ST's book clearly has an objective WITHIN it to justify its publication. It is rather the goal of DOI which continues to defy the title of the book. DOI is nothing more than a publicity stunt, written to inspire sympathy for the Rams, not for JonBenet. And the Rams say that money will go to JBR foundation .... and to cover legal expenses. Legal expenses which profit whom exactly? Some people in this case, are better positioned to give up-close testimonial than others: ST regarding the investigation; FW and LHP regarding the private habits of the Ramseys. That information is important to the case, and no amount of reducing it all to "greed" or "dirty family secrets" (the repetition of the latter makes me more ill than most other malicious inuendo in this case) will change that. Then witness what is occurring to expert opinion which implicates the Ramseys. There are consistent attempts to discredit it, through the most idiotic of means, fabricated for the fools with which the Rams apparently feel the world is packed. These 2 consistently talk down to people "Would you kill your dog?" Is this the level of THEIR intelligence or the level of the intelligence they attribute to everyone else? The latter, I think. BTW, it has not escaped my attention that the very people that the Ramseys seek to implicate in the death of JB, by psychics OR by knowledge of knots or stun guns are the same people who are in a position to possibly provide damaging information regarding them. But if we follow ALL the Ram spin inuendo, we would then be asked to believe that both the Whites, the housekeeper and her husband are involved in a conspiracy regarding JB's death. Yeah, right and I'm the queen of England. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "Greed??" Posted by ConnieToo on 12:24:36 6/09/2000 I don't see greed here, I see a GRUDGE based on contempt for the Ramseys and their spin team! Let's face it, being forced to move because of the jamscum's soiree into the porn sites, being thrown under the bus TWICE by the Ramseys and their known associates, having her daughter irreparably damaged by the totally off base investigation of her family, and having to listen to her daughter cry. Don't you think Linda and Marvin love their daughter?? I do, and I think those proceedings caused the rift, especially after Linda found out how her family had been thrown under the bus, and by someone who was LOOKING for something damaging to the Pughs. (jams worked with Armistat?? I don't think so. I'd be willing to bet that Armistad held jams in contempt, showed it in his dismissal of hir, thus forcing hir to work with someone else, instead of being on the inside of the investigation, and not being able to post names and info re: suspects on the internet.) I hold the Pugh's blameless for any retaliation/lawsuits they may bring. They are OWED reparations, in my opinion. They are victims, just like JonBenet was a victim. For sure, they did NOT bring any of this on themselves by their actions. The Ramseys are NOT victims! They are PERPS! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 81. "Connie" Posted by v_p on 14:32:53 6/10/2000 I've read all the reactions to this statement by LHP and yours is the best IMHO, by far. I totally agree with everything you've written. The entire time I was reading all the posts, what you said went through my mind. I have nothing to add. Thanks Connie - I agree - totally. V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 69. "Gemini" Posted by momo on 12:43:05 6/09/2000 I don't think so. I think LHP really cared about JonBenet. Why does it have to be about greed? I'm sure with the ST book and then the interview with him and the Rams has made LHP think harder about what she already knows in her mind. Sometimes the brain needs to be massaged with some information to help someone accept what they would rather deny. And just because someone is not as rich as the Ramseys dosen't mean they are the scum of the earth and would stoop to make a dime off of the death of their daughter. As I have seen time and time again in this case, there are obviously more people who care about justice for JonBenet than her parents do. And that is just a fact IMO. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 73. "ConnieToo and mono" Posted by Gemini on 13:33:38 6/09/2000 Simple. This is not the first time LH-P has sold a story to the tabs. What's more, it's also been reported she commented that she'd no longer give interviews without being paid to do so. Something to the tune of - "everybody else is getting paid ... me too" (paraphrase). I think she did it for the money. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "So then.." Posted by Seashell on 11:57:15 6/09/2000 if, a BIG if, Patsy is the sole perp, she confessed unconsciously thruout the crime, staging and cover-up so that she would be caught, since so much seems to point to her. Why not just bop and strangle JBR, call the cops and ask them to bring the cuffs? Even PR's not this crazy. OK, so PR bopped her and in her horror called on JR for advice. JR calmly and cordially decided to garrotte JBR and cover for his crazy wife who just killed his beloved daughter. Hey JR, so very cordial. I don't think so. OK, so PR bopped her while trying to hit JR who was molesting JBR. This, at least makes some sense - more than the first 2 scenarios. Or...someone, the murderer, was in a alcoholic/drugged black out and truly doesn't/don't remember what happened; thus they're telling the truth and lying at the same time. Initial blood tests would have revealed the amount of stuff in the body and we prolly would have heard something by now. Or....Burke was involved - a theory almost no one wants to entertain. GPP and JAR have alibis - or do they really? Ah...now we have the sex ring angle, which, IMO is not that far fetched. And for docg, there's JR doing it alone. This theory runs neck and neck IMO with the parents did it together. I like this one even better at times, since all the staging points at everyone except JR. It takes subtly of thought to notice just how glaring this is, and just how much it points directly at JR as perp. It's crafty, cunning and most of all it duped most people. Maybe the guv is on to him and certainly docg is and I still think he's the mastermind behind this. Patsy is many things, but never subtle nor very cunning. But watch and listen to JR. He's managed to get the whole world, almost, to believe Patsy killed JBR and have you noticed that during the talk shows, no one NO ONE ever talks about his involvement - EVER!!! The focus is all on Patsy ALWAYS. That perp sure is smart, cunning and subtle. (sorry for the long post. I'm having a race with ginja!) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "Well.." Posted by 1000Sparks on 12:22:11 6/09/2000 If someone was gonna pay me for what I know about someone and was gonna pay me for that info, what's the problem? I'd probably tell them without getting paid. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 70. "It is possible" Posted by sebastian on 12:55:08 6/09/2000 that LHP didn't know about the room until just before Christmas. It is also possible to person who did the interview left out some of the things Linda said for "shock value." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 71. "Ryder" Posted by Gemini on 13:26:41 6/09/2000 Oh, no doubt, there's plenty of greed to go 'round, but Ramsey greed does not make Hoffmann-Pugh greed less evident. To me, an assumption that economic status is any kind of indication of guilt, or in fact, morality/ethics, is a big stereotypical nothing. The idea that anyone should be eliminated from scrutiny because they are on the low end of the pole is no more valid that a free pass for the wealthy. I just think it's totally obvious LH-P had monetary motivation for concocting a story the tabs would buy. I'm not suggesting she's a bad person, just that I can see evidence she may have had a lot of encouragement to go for the bucks, even if it meant skewing the truth to suit the demand. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 74. "Sparks" Posted by Gemini on 13:39:16 6/09/2000 Yeah ... I agree with you for a change ... your last statement, anyway. If I had information that shed light on a murder ... I'd tell ... I wouldn't charge. But, I wouldn't rework some minor incident to suit a tabloid bias. And, that's what it seems LH-P may be doing. Just one example: She either got cold chills when she saw the note because the handwriting was just like Patsy's writing, OR she was convinced it looked like Patsy's writing after Coffman talked her into it. Had to be one or the other, but she's talking out of both sides of her mouth (so to speak). I think it's for the money. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 75. "Hi" Posted by Milenko_154 on 13:47:20 6/09/2000 Hello! I think you should speak out publically, and support you explantions everywhere. I can't believe, though, that if Patsy did it, John had nothing to do with it. The whole "Vision of Purple" thing, I think that was a form of ressessive-passive denial, and that usually means that their guilty of what they deny, in a sense that they try to deny something they know is true, and the cause of this reaction is some of a form of guilt, remorse, and a concoction of other things, in conjunction with personall feelings etc. I'm still not convinced, mainly because I don't want to be, and because I feel I wish we're all wrong. Also, I can't be sure your not an imposter, though I doubt you are. P.S. I hope your right, so this can be layed to rest, but I feel that if it is true, then it will sweet to the mouth, and sour to the stomach. All agree, raise your hands. Thank you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Milenko_154 ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 77. "Another possibility" Posted by Seashell on 14:59:24 6/09/2000 Maybe LHP is being paid handsomely by (ahem) shall we suggest JR to further implicate Patsy; in a round-about way of course. I don't forget for one second that the purpose of this cover-up is to divert attention AWÅY from the perp. Each month and year that passes, the press gets farther away from even discussing the possibility that he's involved. It's sickening! fly makes a good point about LHP trying to have it both ways, being certain and then having to be convinced by MM. Which came first? And why now? Then again, continual pressure on Patsy may cause her to crack and tell what she knows - not what she did. If the authorities are truly convinced that a confession is the only way to solve the crime, then keeping Patsy on the hot seat is the way to do it, since she's the weakest link in the chain. Another thing. JR said he doesn't suspect Patsy. Didn't he think it odd she never came to bed? Oh I forgot. He took a "sleeping pill" and I'm so glad he remembered that little alibi 2 years or so after the crime. Patsy Dear, it's time for you to say that you took one too! And Burke, don't forget Burke. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 78. "LHP & money, & the gold club" Posted by Zandra on 15:13:42 6/09/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:13:42, 6/09/2000 Gemini, I don't know why you have trouble believing that Linda Pugh is telling anything but the truth. Her letter seems entirely straightforward to me. She tells her story with very little embellishment and no sordid details that might suggest fabrication. Her remark about the bathroom punishments seem chillingly truthful, and she does point out that it seemed significant after she had read Steve Thomas' book, in which he gives his guess that the murder began in JonBenet's bathroom. I had a Ruthee moment during the discussion re: the broken window. It is my opinion that the window was broken (of course!) with the golf club that was found under the bushes outside. Edited to apologize for my typo in the Subject line. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 79. "LHP CLEANS UP" Posted by chebrock on 19:12:04 6/09/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:12:04, 6/09/2000 I think Linda is doing a GREAT job speaking out. Of all the people who know the Ramseys and can certainly speak to their habits.. she's in the prime seat. She knows EVERYTHING about that family. She had been changing their sheets, emptying out their trash, cleaning up their messes for quite a while. No body knows more about the dirt within a family that the person who cleans up their messes. Housekeepers know everything. She has waited a long long time, probably somewhat afraid of the Ramseys and their lawyers but I'm glad she finally has decided to come clean with it all. Go LINDA: I think she should write a book... "The Ramseys: What I learned from their dirty laundry." She'd make her second million. Make that her third million. She needs to sue the Ramsey's for throwing herself and her family under the bus. That woman has it all! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 80. "LHP's allegations and opinions" Posted by docg on 19:51:34 6/09/2000 "As I watched the Ramseys announce in a televised press conference that they had passed their lie detector test, and then take on Detective Steve Thomas last week on Larry King Live, I was struck by their arrogance and Patsy's holier-than-thou attitude." So were a lot of others. This lady decided to go public for a VERY good reason. Disgust. "I think Patsy believes she's gotten away with murder, and she's trying to convince the world that she's a victim, too. But as someone who knows the Ramseys and their habits very well, I can say that I don't have any doubt in my mind what happened that horrible Christmas night." Unfortunately LHP decided to go the TAB route and therefor was encouraged to make an unfortunate statement such as this. If you have no doubts regarding this case then you are either not paying attention OR not competent to make judgements. Period. "Whenever JonBenet would act up and need discipline, Patsy would take her into the bathroom attached to JonBenet's bedroom, close the door and deliver the punishment in there. I do not know what kind of punishment Patsy gave her daughter, but I do know she always did it in JonBenet's bathroom!" This statement was seriously qualified in today's Peter Boyles show. Apparently this is based only on what LHP's daughter said about Patsy being upset with JBR and taking her into the bathroom. If the child had wetting problems, then it makes a lot of sense that some sort of disciplinary activity would be centered in the bathroom. But we don't even know if any sort of discipline took place -- just that someone observed them going there. VERY feeble. Only the editor of a Tab could take that sort of thing seriously. "During the time I worked for Patsy and John, I saw many, many examples of Patsy's handwriting. She was always leaving me a note asking me to do something, or thanking me, or whatever. The first time I saw the "ransom note" after it was released to the public, a chill ran down my spine -- to me, it looked just like Patsy's handwriting!" This does not jibe with Frank Coffman's account, which sounds credible to me. Apparently the lady initially noticed similarities in one or two letters. Then, after seeing a comparison worked up by Coffman, she decided, "yes, it MUST be Patsy." But Coffman himself was not convinced by that and now adamantly believes Patsy did NOT write the note. Lots of people were familiar with Patsy's hand and to my knowledge NO ONE ELSE in that category has come forward with that sort of assertion. Despite some valid comparisons that have been made regarding certain details, comparisons that may or may not be significant, the overall look of the note is TOTALLY different from Patsy's writing or printing. Even if Patsy DID write the thing, which I doubt, she certainly made a considerable effort to disguise her hand. "That was my first reaction to reading the strange, rambling, three-page message." The word "rambling" is VERY suspicious here. Very clearly this is NOT written in LHP's "voice," which considerably diminishes its value. Someone is egging her on and embellishing her story. "I know the authorities have said officially that they can't exclude Patsy as the author of the note. But to me, its obvious Patsy wrote it." NOT obvious to experts from the CBI and Secret Service. But obvious to Linda Hoffman-Pugh. Someone is doing this lady a grave disservice. Someone is using her. This is ugly. "And not only is the handwriting similar, I could almost hear her voice in some of the wording. 'Don't try and grow a brain, John,' and '...you're not the only fat cat around...,' and several other phrases all sound like they came right out of Patsy's mouth." VERY naive thinking. Why on Earth would Patsy want to include her own favorite phrases in a note intended to point to an intruder? "On the morning of the murder, police found a broken window in the basement, just a few feet from the room where JonBenet's body was found. John Ramsey told the police that he had broken the window to get into the house months before when he was accidentally locked out. But I think that is a lie. If there had been broken glass in the basement, Patsy would have told me to clean it up." Here LHP is on much more solid ground. She is unquestionably an authority on something like a broken window in the house and broken glass on the floor. These are things she could not fail to have noticed. But it was NOT Patsy who lied about that window. It was JOHN! "I think Patsy broke that window herself on the night she killed JonBenet to make the police think there had been an intruder, and John concocted the story about breaking the window." Now if Patsy was the one who dunnit, WHY in God's name would JOHN want to concoct such a story? LHP has caught JOHN, NOT Patsy, in a lie. But she's being encouraged to "think Patsy" so she is thinking Patsy, come what may. "The room where JonBenet's body was found, which has been called a wine cellar by some people, is extremely difficult to find. I worked in that house for a year and a half and was in the basement dozens of times, and I never knew that room was there!" Good point! Very doubtful an intruder was present. Much more likely an insider with a need to hide the body in the most remote possible location. "When the detectives confronted her about having on make-up and being fully dressed, she claimed that she had put on her make-up because she never went anywhere without doing that first. But I was at her house on many, many mornings and I often saw Patsy piddling around in the kitchen in sweats or a robe, wearing no make-up. I was told that the clothes she was wearing were the same clothes she had worn the night before. Patsy claimed that she often wore the same clothes two days in a row. I know that's not true -- she never did that." This is extremely interesting and possibly quite meaningful. It's really the ONLY part of LHP's testimony that casts real suspicion on Patsy. It does strongly suggest that Patsy lied about the dress and makeup. But it's awfully hard to see why she wouldn't have changed her clothes and removed her makeup if in fact she were going to such enormous trouble to coverup a murder. Strange, strange. "And whether it's in this life or the next one, Patsy's going to have to answer for it." Patsy certain does seem to have SOME things to answer for. But WHAT is not at all clear. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 82. "chebrock" Posted by Gemini on 19:34:26 6/10/2000 I totally disagree with you. Call me a cynic (please :-) ), but I tend to suspect statements made for substantial gain ... especially when the tabloids are involved. LH-P had to come up with something they wanted to print ... and you can bet the farm it had to be negative toward the Ramseys. Then, on Boyles, her story started twisting and turning in the hot air, didn't it? I'd like to see justice for JBR, but I certainly do not condone trying to skew the justice system to suit a particular POV that encourages vigilante tactics. It sounds a lot like you're saying "let's git 'em", even if it means paying people to make up stuff ... and that's just one small side- step from advocating mob rule. DocG, is it possible PR chose to wear her Christmas outfit and do her makeup because they had planned to stop in Minneapolis and connect up with the older children? I can't imagine her wagging around that airport, barefaced, in sweats. It seems her appearance was/is very important to her. That's one reason I can't get too excited about (or join) the hue and cry over what she was wearing, makeup, etc.. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 83. "For the life " Posted by momo on 19:46:23 6/10/2000 of me I can not understand why there are still fencesitters after 3 1/2 years. Me thinks some people are in a state of denial. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 84. "Well mono ..." Posted by Gemini on 19:51:10 6/10/2000 I guess you could take us out and shoot us. Would that give you a grin? I'll never understand the arrogance of people who claim to KNOW who killed JBR ... unless, of course, you sere there. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 86. "and mono" Posted by Gemini on 20:02:30 6/10/2000 When you start feeling the need to purge the forum of all but pure anti-rams stock, you might want to remind youself of a little piece of history that went ... "... first they came for the communists, and I didn't object because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't object because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't object because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't object because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me." -Pastor Martin Niemoller, Dachau, Germany, 1941 Not in denial, mono ... I see you very clearly. If you hold overt prejudice against those whose opinions differ from yours ... how great a part does prejudice play in the way you view this case? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 85. "uh oh" Posted by dixie on 19:58:17 6/10/2000 Guess it's time to open the prision doors... I'm betting that the majority of murderers are there based on evidence rather than eye witnesses who were there. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 88. "Gosh Gemini" Posted by momo on 20:21:50 6/10/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 20:21:50, 6/10/2000 I don't know for sure who killed JonBenet, but it is obvious to me that the parents were involved in some way. I just do not understand why some do not see certain things that I see. I'll not go into everything, but they have proven over time that they either know or were involved and still involved in the murder of JonBenet. As honestly as I know how to say, I know this in my heart. I saw it from day one. Let's just agree to disagree. BTW I am a gemini. My post wasn't as harmful as it might have seemed. Sorry. Edited to say that it is MOMO. Don't be so defensive. Are you on the rag too? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 96. "mono" Posted by Gemini on 18:14:57 6/11/2000 LOL! no ... just trying to hurry and as a result, too impatient. Besides which, fence sitters have wild cards. Otherwise the forum would capsize from lack of balance. That was the "aggrieved minority" wild card. Others include the "voice of reason" and the "righteous indignation" cards. :-) My opinion varies almost week to week. Last week I was 40% for parent involvement, 60% against. This week, it's about 50-50, mostly because i've been trying to deside on how much weight to give the possibility a would-be kidnapper would opt for the long, involved ransom note. It suggests this person wasn't very bright ... although, perhaps, a reader with at least a high school education. But then, would this dim bulb be able to walk away without leaving a trail? ... and on and on until parental involvement begins to look more likely and moves up a few notches, in spite of the huge holes in parents dunnit scenarios. I'd guess the parents dunnit people accept this theory as most likely, based on the post-murder behavior they find suspect, plus media hype. And, of course there are a few who are very impressed with the exquirts' opinions. The fencers usually seem to have a need to work out the hows and whys before jumping on any particular bandwagon. Just different way of putting puzzles together. does that help? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 87. "well dixie ..." Posted by Gemini on 20:05:54 6/10/2000 I don't know whether this is directed toward me or docg ... but you're reading what you want to think ... has nothing to do with the posts. Isn't that called spin? I think so. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 89. "huh?" Posted by dixie on 20:18:43 6/10/2000 I have posted mabey 10 times since I've been coming to this forum and you think I am spinning? what the hey, if you sleep better tonight thinking you put me in my place then who am I to deny you that. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 90. "Disciplinig the children" Posted by Bunnyby on 05:21:12 6/11/2000 If it is true she never disciplined the children,maybe it is because the children were to afraif of her to act up. If she's that bad as this makes her out to be the kids probabaly felt like they were walking on egg shells or something. I knew a child who was badly abused. The thing was he literally NEVER acted up. Very, very well behaved little boy, very sweet. He appeared to be perfectly behaved only because he was so afraid of his father. He tried to be as good as he could so he wouldn't get introuble. But he got abused anyway. Spilling things, not jumping quick enough etc. Other times he was abused because his dad had had a bad day and took it out on him. In this boys fathers case he could honestly say he never punished his son, but he still abused him for anything. I wonder if this is the same with PR? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 91. "IMO " Posted by momo on 06:39:59 6/11/2000 I believe Patsy was abusive. As an abused child myself I can see the telltale signs. Just because there is no previous history of abuse does not mean that abuse does not happen. That is the biggest misconception about abuse. Parents are most likely NOT going to make the abuse of their children public knowledge. If I hear "What in our past would make you think we were capable of this" one more time, I think I will puke. That is so ridiculous. There is a first time for everything and that is a fact. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 92. "Worthless press play" Posted by Ginja on 07:38:59 6/11/2000 Oh, sure...they're getting paid...if not by the tabloids, then from profits of their own writings. And it all adds up to diddly-squat against murderers. Anyone who's made a buck on this story isn't going to be called as a witness...they can't. Their testimony is tainted. The only usefulness of any of the comments and recollections goes to the value of any suits the Ramseys bring against them. Some of you had posted previous statements. If these statements were made to police before tained by $$$, then maybe those statements could be used in trial...maybe. The prosecutor could call these witnesses to the stand. But again, as noted, the value would go to the cross-examiner pointing out the testimony is tainted and was used in the public forum. And why now? Why are people 'selling' their stories? To put murderers behind bars? Because they think the State isn't going to do anything with it? Who are they to make those judgments? It all goes to purpose. What is their purpose? If it was 'clean', they should have brought it to the police and left it there. As they've only left a copy of their statements with police, and sold the rest, the value is shot to hell. As far as the dimwit sketch, give him a little more jaw and fatten the face out, and you've got JohnBoy. As far as the broken glass, sure the windoes are on hinges. Someone opened the window and smashed the window "in" to look like an intruder came in. The police have already examined the outside of that window and found no footprints or markings, so the only way that window was broken was by opening the window from the inside. Perhaps that's why Fleet picked it up and examined it...he knew! As far as all the evidence pointing to Patsy...that's as staged as the crime itself. All that can be pinned on Patsy right now, even though everything "points" to her, is the fact that she wrote the note. This does not prove murder. There needs to be a smoking gun to "show" or "prove" Patsy killed and staged. They would need testimony to back it up, and the only testimony they could get would be John's. He takes immunity (as a last resort offer by the State). She's arrested and tried for the murder, based solely on the note as actual evidence (everything else is circumstantial). She admits to writing the note, but nothing else...she can say she was coerced, or terrified, who knows and who cares? Bottom line, it comes out that's all she did, and her immunized husband did the rest. She's acquitted and he's immunized. LHP has been coached and pressured by various sources to "come clean" on the "real Ramseys." She's been thrown under the bus, and now she wants revenge, and she wants a little $$$ for her troubles. A real witness wouldn't have sold out. She could come out now and say, and she is, that Patsy did it. And there's not a damn thing the authorities can do with it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 93. "Ginja" Posted by New York Lawyer on 08:28:20 6/11/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:28:20, 6/11/2000 Oh, grow up -- and a brain, while you're at it. This is some of the silliest analysis (even for you) that I've seen posted in quite some time. The sheer hysterical fakery of it is pure nonsense. Simply put: You don't have the faintest idea of what you are talking about! Even the Ramseys believe, as they stated several times on Larry King, that the ransom note writer is the murderer. They have NO DOUBT about it. I repeat: The ransom note writer IS the murderer! Do you "get it" NOW? Patsy and John sure do! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 94. "Well, NYL" Posted by Ginja on 09:08:14 6/11/2000 Showing your true colors, eh? Grow a brain yourself! Just because you've got a JD doesn't mean you know how to use it, and it's obvious here. So what! Patsy admits the writer is the murderer! Prove it! How do you prove she killed using a note as evidence/proof? No where in the note is there a confession. If it was that easy, this case would be at trial. You know, you lead people on this board by a nose-chain. They think because you're a lawyer you know what you're talking about and what you're doing. Credentials mean diddly-squat. If anyone's dangerous here with a little knowledge, it's you! You use people for your own gains. You waste your time on the internet...or maybe not. It's your only forum! It's the only place people will listen to you! And that's because they don't know any better! Your fan club conists of one brown-nose and a handful of unknowing people who are so frustrated by the case that your ramblings are better than nothing, as far as they're concerned. Where were you three years ago, or two, when there were plenty of posters on board who could see right through you. No. You waited until the board went public and 75% of the members are new and unknowing. You never got away with all this bull a few years ago. If, for example, all was needed to prove the notewriter was the murderer, again...that person would have been arrested. It's a no go. And that's why Patsy's sitting so pretty and arrogant, agreeing with you! She knows she can't be touched on these grounds. Maybe if you started playing the incest game and started torturing JohnBoy, you'd see a different reaction coming out of the Camp. Why? Because you'd be too close for comfort! I don't need the brain, NYL... What you need is filler to get from writing a note to bashing your child's skull in half! I give you credit for going after child murderers, NYL. What I don't give you credit for is not using your brain and wherewithal to get anywhere with it! Felony murder predicated on kidnapping by parents of a child who never left the home is baseless and without merit. You've been questioned on that by attorneys who post here and told you it wasn't feasible. I took your notes and Wolfe complaint to an ABA meeting/seminar and it got the same result. Baseless and without merit -- with a hidden agenda. I can't even believe you used Patsy's "claims" in your own defense! You kiss up to everyone, NYL...as long as they kiss up to you. As soon as someone like myself calls you on it, instead of an intelligent response, you rip into the insults. I've obviously hit a chord here. I just hope people notice how defensive you get when questioned. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]