Justice Watch Discussion Board "Sound Off On Fleet White" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Sound Off On Fleet White, Nandee, 10:31:30, 6/10/2000 Sometimes, lee2, 10:33:35, 6/10/2000, (#1) I'm, darby, 11:23:19, 6/10/2000, (#2) shootin' his mouth off, Edie Pratt, 11:37:21, 6/10/2000, (#3) Edie, Nandee, 11:39:15, 6/10/2000, (#4) LOL, Nandee, Edie Pratt, 11:43:29, 6/10/2000, (#5) well, hell, mame, 11:48:24, 6/10/2000, (#7) LOL--Maybe you're right, Edie , darby, 11:45:43, 6/10/2000, (#6) I have a feeling, Darby, Edie Pratt, 11:52:33, 6/10/2000, (#8) Sure, Edie, darby, 11:56:46, 6/10/2000, (#9) serendipity?, Edie Pratt, 12:12:03, 6/10/2000, (#12) darby, Nandee, 12:01:19, 6/10/2000, (#10) yep Nandee, darby, 12:08:06, 6/10/2000, (#11) darby, Nandee, 12:25:21, 6/10/2000, (#13) Nandee, lake, 13:46:14, 6/10/2000, (#15) "Years down the road", Holly, 15:30:21, 6/10/2000, (#21) Well, Holly, lake, 15:39:35, 6/10/2000, (#22) lake., Holly, 11:09:56, 6/11/2000, (#45) lake . . ., Anton, 14:03:45, 6/10/2000, (#17) Anton, lake, 16:47:15, 6/10/2000, (#30) Thanks, lake, Anton, 06:58:06, 6/11/2000, (#39) Lake, Nandee, 13:51:05, 6/10/2000, (#16) Oh God. Don't get me started --, Holly, 13:30:13, 6/10/2000, (#14) why not let's ask him?, Edie Pratt, 14:18:28, 6/10/2000, (#18) I doubt, lake, 14:38:33, 6/10/2000, (#19) Well, EdieP., Holly, 15:27:23, 6/10/2000, (#20) Allusions..., shadow, 15:40:52, 6/10/2000, (#23) well, Shadow, lake, 15:49:19, 6/10/2000, (#24) well, not hard at all, Holly, Edie Pratt, 15:52:50, 6/10/2000, (#25) Well, lake, 15:56:51, 6/10/2000, (#26) Thanks, Lake..., shadow, 15:58:43, 6/10/2000, (#27) shadow, lake, 16:01:34, 6/10/2000, (#28) Lee2, Msracoon, 16:20:15, 6/10/2000, (#29) No,I don't , SDean1, 17:44:23, 6/10/2000, (#31) Warm Fuzzies or Cold Clammies!, mary99, 19:49:40, 6/10/2000, (#32) Well I don't know about "skittish, Holly, 11:12:19, 6/11/2000, (#46) Mary99, Gemini, 19:53:33, 6/10/2000, (#33) I'm with Darby and Shadow, Starling, 22:38:03, 6/10/2000, (#36) Starling, janphi, 05:22:27, 6/11/2000, (#37) You'll love this EdieP., Holly, 21:48:08, 6/10/2000, (#34) Hmmmm...., janphi, 22:15:19, 6/10/2000, (#35) His car insurance, Holly, 11:13:22, 6/11/2000, (#47) .are you saying, Nikki, 05:46:45, 6/11/2000, (#38) Newbie Question, Luvsa Mystery, 07:15:36, 6/11/2000, (#40) luvsamystery., Holly, 11:15:21, 6/11/2000, (#48) Thank you Holly, Luvsa Mystery, 12:47:16, 6/11/2000, (#53) Nikki and LM, darby, 09:08:13, 6/11/2000, (#41) Fleet, Ribaldone, 09:27:06, 6/11/2000, (#42) I demand to know, Edie Pratt, 10:36:25, 6/11/2000, (#43) Political?, Nandee, 11:07:22, 6/11/2000, (#44) Nandee., Holly, 11:20:48, 6/11/2000, (#49) tell me,, Edie Pratt, 11:31:03, 6/11/2000, (#50) Oooh, I get it, Edie Pratt, 11:59:56, 6/11/2000, (#51) Something going on?, Coolteach, 13:28:32, 6/11/2000, (#55) Coolteach , momo, 15:03:01, 6/11/2000, (#57) Edie, Nandee, 12:33:11, 6/11/2000, (#52) Fleet White & Linda Arndt, Anton, 13:57:29, 6/11/2000, (#56) Lake..., shadow, 13:27:29, 6/11/2000, (#54) Lake vs FW, Ryder, 15:04:22, 6/11/2000, (#58) Ryder, lake, 15:50:24, 6/11/2000, (#60) Ryder, momo, 15:36:09, 6/11/2000, (#59) Am I nutz too?, mary99, 16:23:30, 6/11/2000, (#62) Ryder , momo, 16:00:01, 6/11/2000, (#61) Edie Pratt/Anton, Starling, 16:40:38, 6/11/2000, (#63) Thank you kindly, Starling, Edie Pratt, 16:56:51, 6/11/2000, (#64) The Leap, lake, 17:46:32, 6/11/2000, (#67) Re: lake, Brightlight, 17:24:43, 6/11/2000, (#66) Fleets getting the enema here...., Nandee, 17:22:17, 6/11/2000, (#65) We don't know the Whites, darby, 19:13:12, 6/11/2000, (#77) Nandee, lake, 18:01:40, 6/11/2000, (#70) lake, Nandee, 18:46:41, 6/11/2000, (#75) Nandee, lake, 20:05:58, 6/11/2000, (#78) lake, Nandee, 21:02:03, 6/11/2000, (#80) Nandee, Edie Pratt, 17:51:09, 6/11/2000, (#68) Edie, Nandee, 18:01:48, 6/11/2000, (#71) Edie, mame, 18:01:16, 6/11/2000, (#69) where, mame, did I say you , Edie Pratt, 18:29:47, 6/11/2000, (#74) Mame, Nandee, 18:05:40, 6/11/2000, (#72) Starling, Gemini, 18:20:41, 6/11/2000, (#73) Starling & Gemini, Anton, 19:00:47, 6/11/2000, (#76) Well I'll be happy to say it --, Holly, 10:53:18, 6/12/2000, (#81) deputized?, Nandee, 15:10:03, 6/12/2000, (#84) Let me add --, Holly, 11:07:58, 6/12/2000, (#82) Holly, Nandee, 15:11:23, 6/12/2000, (#85) Uh, Nandee, Holly, 05:53:53, 6/13/2000, (#91) Now, THAT's more like it!, Edie Pratt, 11:20:59, 6/12/2000, (#83) Or maybe, Msracoon, 20:38:40, 6/11/2000, (#79) from Time , Nandee, 15:43:18, 6/12/2000, (#86) Nandee #86 & the others, Ryder, 17:47:58, 6/12/2000, (#87) Ryder, Nandee, 17:51:15, 6/12/2000, (#88) Ryder/Nandee, Ribaldone, 18:48:24, 6/12/2000, (#89) Steve Thomas--lap dog to Fleet White :-), mary99, 23:44:25, 6/12/2000, (#90) mary99, Ryder, 09:58:29, 6/13/2000, (#92) this thing reminds me, Edie Pratt, 10:43:57, 6/13/2000, (#94) What more could they ask for?, shadow, 10:25:36, 6/13/2000, (#93) Ryder & shadow, fly, 10:58:37, 6/13/2000, (#95) Comments on FW & ST, mary99, 12:12:35, 6/13/2000, (#96) sure, right, whatever, Nandee, 12:21:35, 6/13/2000, (#97) New Thread, momo, 14:57:20, 6/13/2000, (#98) ................................................................... "Sound Off On Fleet White" Posted by Nandee on 10:31:30 6/10/2000 Steve Thomas said, on the APB.COM discussion site that he felt Fleet White was not involved and was trying to do the right thing by JonBenet. If he was involved in child porn, why would he make himself so visible? According to ST, the White's were interviewed somewhere around 18 times, mostly on their insistance, in the first few weeks of the case. Let's revisit the subject of Fleet. Please share your feelings about this man and his involvement for those of us who need to be enlightened.... (OK Lake, I'm expecting you to jump in with both feet on this issue!) [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Sometimes" Posted by lee2 on 10:33:35 6/10/2000 the best defense is a good offense. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "I'm" Posted by darby on 11:23:19 6/10/2000 basically waiting to decide. I'm waiting to see if the things publically alluded to recently by MW and her handful of supporters are correct. I believe that news is forthcoming, at which time I can decide for myself. I know the BPD found no connection to the JBR murder, but too much was left hanging regarding the Whites in the BPD statement about MW. I'd also very much like to hear an explanation from Mark Beckner concerning his alleged claim that the Whites are "morally empty." Was he just shooting his mouth off or did he have a reason to say this? Lastly, I would like to hear Steve Thomas' take on this after it ALL comes out. I await the answers. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "shootin' his mouth off" Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:37:21 6/10/2000 I vote for that scenario, Darby. I think we can put that Becknerism in the same catagory as the "thousand lights" comment by Arndt. If Beckner had anything but a creepy feeling, that'd be one thing, but so far all we know is FW doesn't have insurance for his car. Oooh, oooh, oooh! Alert the media! Surely FW would be locked up by now, Beckner must be watching him. Afterall, just about everyone else but the perps have been jailed, for one reason or another. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Edie" Posted by Nandee on 11:39:15 6/10/2000 Fleet was handcuffed for a traffic ticket... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "LOL, Nandee" Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:43:29 6/10/2000 well, there you have it! I guess he is a criminal,and that Beckner's feelings were well founded. Thank Heaven they nabbed him before he parked in a handicapped zone, lol! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "well, hell" Posted by mame on 11:48:24 6/10/2000 i was handcuffed for a barking dog ticket! not trying to make a point for or against any case character...just a reminder that this is boulder...behind the granola curtain...where traffic tickets and dog barking carry a higher fine than MURDER!!! it's called BOULDER STANDARD TIME... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "LOL--Maybe you're right, Edie " Posted by darby on 11:45:43 6/10/2000 but that's a mighty heavy charge against someone for not paying his insurance. Granted, the BPD arrests people for skipping dog court and raids houses in the dead of night for their diaries and storms jail cells to nab journals from inmates, and...okay, I guess you've got a point. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "I have a feeling, Darby" Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:52:33 6/10/2000 the problem the BPD and AH have with FW is because FW has a BIG personality. From what I've seen of Boulder, most people are laid back. FW was agitated from the start, and with the help of JR, the authorities took that to mean something sinister. And, how come there's no speculation by Beckner about the actions and vibes coming from Pasta Jay? I don't recall anyone mentioning FW's penchant for negotiating with a baseball bat. How come THAT doesn't creep him out? Does me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Sure, Edie" Posted by darby on 11:56:46 6/10/2000 A big man with a big personality. I suppose they also weren't too thrilled that he demanded access to his prior statements in the JBR case--I don't think they let him have them. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "serendipity?" Posted by Edie Pratt on 12:12:03 6/10/2000 it could very well be just that, serendipity. Where is it written that two parties can't be very guilty at the same time for two different crimes, and the two parties are friends? I would want my statments returned to me too, if I learned the real perps(in my mind) got theirs and I didn't. I'd also be irate at the perps for bringing unwanted attention to myself, if I had something to hide. I think FW's cry for his statments was simply for the priciple of the matter. And, I bet it didn't help matters when FW realized he was being questioned about things only JR could have supplied to the cops and/or detectives. Remember, JR told them FW was the sailor of the two, hence he knew how to tie a sophisticated knot like that on the garrOAT. FW could be the biggest snake in the grass there is, but in this case, his asp wasn't there. Does that make sense? It's as simple as plumbing. You open the walls to find the leak, and discover some clogs, to boot. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "darby" Posted by Nandee on 12:01:19 6/10/2000 Why should they let FW have access to his prior statements? They reserve that right for their murder suspects!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "yep Nandee" Posted by darby on 12:08:06 6/10/2000 At least they're consistent. 'Course you know me. I kinda wonder why FW might have wanted his prior statements at all. The Rammers I can understand. They're the suspects. But a witness? This might be something that witnesses typically want to have. I'm just not clear on why a witness might want them. Maybe someone could clear this up. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "darby" Posted by Nandee on 12:25:21 6/10/2000 Do you know at what point he requested them? Was he deposed at any point? Or maybe he thought he would be? Or maybe he wanted to check the accuracy of them? After 18 interviews, who knows?? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Nandee" Posted by lake on 14:06:17 6/10/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:06:17, 6/10/2000 "I wanted to give you the courtesy of a brief response. In time, all the facts and circumstances surrounding this case will be publicly revealed, debated and evaluated by virtue of the civil litigation. When the facts and evidence surface, I believe much of the anti-Ramsey rumors, speculation and innuendo will be discredited. I know from prior experience that it is difficult for the media and many interested members of the public to wait for the system of justice to produce information and results, but it is a worthwhile wait." --------------------------------------- It may be that Lin Wood's approach should apply to Fleet White and his actions and reactions in this case for the time being. Fleet White appears satisfied to remain publically silent concerning some very serious and disturbing charges against his family and others from California. Charges made by someone with a connection to his family that is said to have lasted many years. Fleet White appears to see no need to publically explain why he stated in 1998 that he would go to jail before he would appear before the Grand Jury, or to publicaly denounce the claims of NJK in the same manner that he denounced on a number of occassions through the media the actions of Alex Hunter and the BPD leadership. There are any number of actions taken by the Whites in the past three years that require close examination and a public response before the public can better understand the enigma of the Whites. Should the Ramsey investigators have cooberated information (independent of NJK that supports her claims)that offers explanations for the Whites behavior over the past three years, then it will be brought out in the civil litigation that is to come. But of course, any such trials are likely to be years down the road. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. ""Years down the road"" Posted by Holly on 15:30:21 6/10/2000 I don't think so. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Well, Holly" Posted by lake on 15:39:35 6/10/2000 It will take at least two years for any civil litigation to make its way to trial. If any of the parties that the Ramseys are bringing suit against decide to contest in a civil trial, it could take years before the case is tried. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "lake." Posted by Holly on 11:09:56 6/11/2000 I'm not thinking civil. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "lake . . ." Posted by Anton on 13:04:27 6/11/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:04:27, 6/11/2000 Edited to say: Thanks for the help. No sense leaving names up that don't belong. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Anton" Posted by lake on 16:47:15 6/10/2000 That is not the last of MW if that is what your are driving towards. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Thanks, lake" Posted by Anton on 06:58:06 6/11/2000 No, that isn't what I was driving at. It's just a name somebody (not on this or any other forum) mentioned as being connected with the case. I have no idea what the connection might be. Probably nobody. Thanks for the help. Anton [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Lake" Posted by Nandee on 13:51:05 6/10/2000 Who is NJK? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Oh God. Don't get me started --" Posted by Holly on 13:30:13 6/10/2000 Yes, lee2. Fleet White has no other witnesses to verify that he went to the windowless room, touched the duct tape, moved the suitcase, picked up glass. IF he balked at a polygraph, and insisted on his previous statements, why should we think he is being truthful? He has tried to position himself as star witness from day one. But Beckner/Koby/Trujillo all figured out that he sucks as a CREDIBLE witness and Beckner tagged him, "morally empty". I think they know the secrets. Come on out from under your rock, Fleet. Tell us why BPD says you didn't kill JB, but NOT that you have nothing to do with a sex ring. Admit your letters to the "People of Colorado" were game playing and not even very good game playing. How come it didn't shake out the way you claimed it would? I'm just sitting back and relaxing. He knows the walls are closing. There comes a time, Fleet when the rubber meets the road. The choices we make are important -- even the bad ones. Whatever has been done, you did to yourself. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "why not let's ask him?" Posted by Edie Pratt on 14:18:28 6/10/2000 has anyone tried to talk to FW, like Mame or Carol M.? Maybe he's not talking because nobody asked him? I don't know, just looking for the bright side:-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "I doubt" Posted by lake on 14:38:33 6/10/2000 that anyone could stop that man from talking if he wanted to talk. He has made it crystal clear that the media had better stay to hell away from him and his family. I think the reporters are afraid of the man. Jeff Shapiro said the guy tried to run him down with his truck. Of course that would have been a public service. Better yet if FW could have run over the whole Globe staff with his truck. FW seems to have a very short fuse and an strong dislike to reporters. Does not appear to handle stress well at all. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Well, EdieP." Posted by Holly on 15:28:24 6/10/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:28:24, 6/10/2000 It's easier said than done. After the MW article, the DAILY CAMERA tried to get a response. He would not answer the phone. I think other media tried. Apparently he made noise behind the scenes, which led to the odd CAMERA position statement. Fleet could call CNN or MSNBC or local channels and I'm sure someone would be ready with a microphone. But like I said, he has been seriously devalued as a witness. A brief statement would have worked -- We know this deeply troubled young woman. We're at a loss to explain or dignify such allegations. She is in our prayers. We continue to be devoted to justice for JonBenet Ramsey. Now how hard was that? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Allusions..." Posted by shadow on 15:40:52 6/10/2000 " I'm waiting to see if the things publically alluded to recently by MW and her handful of supporters are correct." I guess this statement by darby pretty much says it for me also! BTW, has anyone heard anything from the BPD, FBI, CBI, Ramsey Dream Team, whomever lately as relates to the MW's alegations? Could someone please tell me what, exactly, MW's alegations are? I'm not talking vague allusions to things that forum posters believe she may have said concerning things the White's may have done... can anyone tell me who she has publicly accused of what as relates to the JBR case or Fleet Whites? shadow [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "well, Shadow" Posted by lake on 15:49:19 6/10/2000 All the articles are on line. You could read what the woman told to reporters and listen to the Mame tapes and dispute whatever you care to dispute. Stay informed shadow. Now there is a novel idea for you, is it not shadow? If the tabloids are not feeding you manure you seem to be malnourished. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "well, not hard at all, Holly" Posted by Edie Pratt on 15:52:50 6/10/2000 only one little eeny weeny problem:-) There has not been national media coverage of this or any other story involving FW. I do not have a clue why the media spared him this indignity, because he, more than anyone, had an inside view to the happenings of that night. His story should have piqued nationwide interest, but instead, it stayed within the four walls of Boulder. Had the "real media" blared the headlines,"MW Points At FW", seems to me, FW would have no other choice but to come out swinging. That is, if he had nothing to hide. As it stands, he is another big fish in a little pond, and nobody cares to catch him and/or fry him. My god, FW should be a household name by now. Who'd he pay? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Well" Posted by lake on 15:58:24 6/10/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:58:24, 6/10/2000 For the media to give legs to the NJK claims would be to cut all the legs off their defense table in the civil suits that Lin Wood has filed and will file on behalf of the Ramseys. No big surprise there. Fleet White does not have to have paid anyone for the media to keep a safe distance from the NJK claims. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Thanks, Lake..." Posted by shadow on 15:58:43 6/10/2000 for your usually helpful comments. I am truely astounded by your knowledge of the JBR case and am duly crushed by your great wit. I expected nothing less!!! I had forgotten what a pleasure this forum has become lately... shadow [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "shadow" Posted by lake on 16:15:06 6/10/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:15:06, 6/10/2000 No problem. Say hi to your better half for me. And I'll bet you she will not look up at the ceiling when you tell her "hi" for me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Lee2" Posted by Msracoon on 16:20:51 6/10/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:20:51, 6/10/2000 How true that is. Holly, I'm with you. I believe it will be sooner than later. BTW Lake, are you going to answer Anton's questions above? Ms.Rac. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "No,I don't " Posted by SDean1 on 17:44:23 6/10/2000 No, I don't think Mark Furman killed Ron or Nichole, nor do I think he planted the glove at OJ's. Mark Furman's life was exposed but, it doesnt mean he was the killer. No, I don't think Fleet White killed Jonbenet. If it was so, Old John Boy and Pasty Girl would have went to the police station more than "ZERO" times. If there is anything in Fleet and Priscilla's life that can be exposed the folks with the "Good Common Sense" (JR & PR) will be exposing it. JFJBR Sue [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Warm Fuzzies or Cold Clammies!" Posted by mary99 on 19:49:40 6/10/2000 I'm with lee2, Holly and yes, lake(!) on Fleet White. He gives me a case of the cold clammies when I think of his behind-the-scenes clout and how he put it to use. He's been labelled 'morally corrupt' by Mark Beckner well before MW stepped forward...so I ASSUME they had good reason to launch such a pointed put-down at the man who positioned himself as a 'seeker of justice.' The Fleet White so many JBR case followers THINK they know is a sham...like the Wizard of Oz. A big man, physically, a powerful and intimidating man who made Hunter uncomfortable, a man with a short fuse when approached, a man who wants to be left alone...and will stop at nothing to remain that way. Where is Fleet White now that the case is all but shelved? Campaigning for Ben Thompson? Speaking out against the Ramseys and Smit? Taking the quest for justice to the public on LKL? Hardly. Fleet White has gone from speaking out to the People of Colorado in an open letter, to speaking to nobody at all. The excuse that the charges made against him are too ludicrous to dignify with a response is wearing thin. For Beckner to launch that personally directed barb is significant. We need to be objective about FW. Apparently he is tarnished or tainted in some way or that comment would have set off a flurry of indignant letters to the 'People of Colorado.' It's clear to me that White had an agenda from Day 1 -- to have the BPD clear him. Why 18 interviews, at his insistence?? Why did he need 'crib notes' before he was re-interviewed? Why did he refuse to appear before the GJ -- if Justice for JBR was his goal, isn't the GJ the perfect opportunity to give confidential testimony? That White has two young children means little to me. John Gotti, Jr, Sammy 'The Bull' Gravano, Joey Gallo, Albert DeSalvo, and countless other 'morally corrupt' sickos all were raising children while breaking every law known to God and man. For Fleet White to be treated with kid gloves, as a 'skittish thouroughbred' according to Steve Thomas...while he lambasted the Ramseys to hell and back is very fishy to me. IMO, when the BPD pulled him in for his expired car insurance, it wasn't just a matter of a motor vehicle violation. It was an excuse to run a records check on him, to invade his space, to access his life history in a way that wouldn't be justified otherwise. As Mame well knows, and Chris Wolf also knows, when they WANT YOU, they will find a way to bring you in...no matter how trumped up the charge, once you're under arrest, you belong to them till they let you go. True, no charges have been filed...but the investigation is ongoing. The deeper the manure, the longer it takes! Bring to mind Hercules cleaning the Aegean stables...deep chit for Fleet White. Yes, the past will come back to bite him in a bad way. No murder of JBR, maybe, but some very unpleasant business, some sordid deeds will come to light. When his true nature is revealed, will we be surprised? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Well I don't know about "skittish" Posted by Holly on 11:12:19 6/11/2000 thoroughbred", but Fleet IS a horse's ass. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Mary99" Posted by Gemini on 20:08:44 6/10/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 20:08:44, 6/10/2000 I have no idea whether or not FW is guilty of anything ... much less involvement in the murder ... but, yeah, cold clammies ... for over 2 years now. (edited to swap a t for a w ) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "I'm with Darby and Shadow" Posted by Starling on 22:38:03 6/10/2000 Before MW ever hit the circuit, I did have reservations about Fleet White. Some days - I would chalk up his unique way of being quiet, as his way of securing justice for JonBenet! In the earliest phase of the investigation, the only thing I knew was that he was with John when the body was found - and days later they were no longer friends. Since John Ramsey is the bad guy to me - it made Fleet White the force to be reckoned with. It became easy to see him as the White Knight. But things happened over a period of time, that made me remove that label away from him. I don't call him a White Knight no more even though some of my dearest friends still think he is. The first insight into him, was the tab articles that dealt with him being a witness. Then after that, another tab article that suggested he went on a house hopping spree after the burial, in Georgia wanting to know why John and Patsy weren't cooperating with the police. At this point, I was still able to make excuses for him - which allowed him to retain that White Knight label I had allowed myself to give him. I recall reading in the on-line articles about the case - one in which Hunter was quoted as saying a Grand Jury was probably needed because there was reluctant witnesses - I didn't know who that person was at the time, and it never dawned on me that it woud turn out to be the White Knight. But it was. Then came his letters. Long in length but they did keep us informed of anything that might be considered hinky within Boulder. There was still no reason to think he was anything less than honorable and worthy of his crown. The turning point for myself started when Schiller's book came out. What stands out is the panty changing issue. And it's not that changing a little girls soiled underpants is a bad thing - it's the way that Lawrence Schiller handled the panty changing issue in a public chat at Barnes & Noble. I flat out asked the man, why he didn't elaborate in his book further about what he personally alluded to - and his answer was 'because he was asked to leave it out.' Well that is not a satisfactory answer. Schiller's book was also the second time I had heard White went back downstairs and touched the duct tape. Jameson had told everyone that it did happen - then she retracted her statements before his book came out. Thomas' book would later reconfirm it really did happen. Singular's book had White acting totally strange. Pam Griffen had him hovering over Patsy Ramsey - half afraid to let her out of his sight. You have Alex Hunter saying the man is "intimidating." Then there was the Singular chat in which some pretty negative things were said about Fleet White, and one of his family members. And then there is MW. And some pretty hefty allegations. Yes I researched him and yes allegations were made against more than one person. Connections may be made and information obtained, but I honestly don't see a way of prooving the allegation. What has been interesting is her story it'self. Like Alex Hunter said if only 15 percent of her stuff is true it warrants an investigation. Here is one time for sure, this man was right on the money with his comments! I don't know what to make of it all - but I do know this - MW comes from a very dysfunctional family. If nothing bad ever had happened to this woman in her lifetime and I learned innocently of her family and extended family - she would forever be in my prayers. And some of the things I've learned, I just can't for the life of me see no reason why this woman would willfully and wantingly draw more attention to herself. So you see it was a progression for me to lean away from the White Knight label, and I hope no one is upset with me for that. I just really believe no one is deserving of that title in this case. Not one person has really earned it in my eyes. And to my dear friends whom still call him a White Knight - they may very well be right on the money. JFJB Starling [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Starling" Posted by janphi on 05:22:27 6/11/2000 Are there transcripts of the Schiller and/or Singular chats on-line somewhere? Do you have either of them copied that you could post? I would really like to see these, especially Singular. I am trying to solve my own mystery-within-the-mystery of where I have met or known FWJr. before in my lifetime and need all the clues I can get. Thanks! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "You'll love this EdieP." Posted by Holly on 21:48:08 6/10/2000 After part One of PMPT, Lee Hill was featured with video of Fleet. Hill was discussing breaking news as part of the local news coverage in MD. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Hmmmm...." Posted by janphi on 22:15:19 6/10/2000 Was FW really speeding when he was pulled over? Or was the insurance thing legit? Is this recent or is it a story from one of the books? When did this happen? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "His car insurance" Posted by Holly on 11:13:22 6/11/2000 lapsed. Not a surprise with everything he has on his mind. LOL. 1997 [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. ".are you saying" Posted by Nikki on 05:46:45 6/11/2000 ..the he was the one who touched her thigh ..and made death smile? .the one that came in the night .to lay her in the cold castle? .you had better be sure .for this one .has not came again.. .why this child .that is the question.. ..why was she alone in this death? ..JFJBR [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Newbie Question" Posted by Luvsa Mystery on 07:15:36 6/11/2000 I hope anyone but Lake will answer my questions since he is so rude. Isn't MW's (I call her Eve, since she seems to be related to everyone) claim made against Fleet White SENIOR? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "luvsamystery." Posted by Holly on 11:15:21 6/11/2000 I think on her mame interivew (the second one), she pretty well nails BOTH Fleets. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "Thank you Holly" Posted by Luvsa Mystery on 12:47:16 6/11/2000 >I think on her mame interivew (the >second one), she pretty well nails >BOTH Fleets. Are Mame's interviews of MW available to this forum? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Nikki and LM" Posted by darby on 09:08:13 6/11/2000 Nikki--I don't think anyone is saying that either of the Whites killed JBR, though it is speculated that MW's mother told her that one of them did it. I personally don't think a White did it. LM--one of the reason FW Sr. was talked about early on is that the first articles about MW said that MW's mother is FW Sr.'s goddaughter. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "Fleet" Posted by Ribaldone on 09:27:06 6/11/2000 The only bad thing I can relate to Fleet and Priscilla White is their poor choice of friends. However, I'm sure they now realize the "error of their ways," now so I guess I don't have anything bad to say about them. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "I demand to know" Posted by Edie Pratt on 10:36:25 6/11/2000 what Beckner knew that lead him to such a statment as, "FW is morally empty." If Beckner had something on FW, or even suspicions, why didn't he tail FW? Charge him with whatever it was he was doing that was morally empty? You don't say things like that without a reason. Beckner never said, "I feel" or "I think", he said "he IS". What constitutes moral emptiness? Theft? Sex Rings? Child molestation? What did Beckner have that he could say such a thing, yet make no arrests? That is so slanderous, where's the proof? Let's not lose sight of the fact that JBR was found dead in JR's basement, NOT FW's. The Stine's say the last time they saw the "family intact" was AFTER the R's LEFT FW's. The only possible connection I can think of, is that perhaps FW showed JR how "it's done", and freaked the following day when he discovered he wasn't that good of a teacher. Therefore, it IS between JR and FW. Otherwise, he seems only guilty for befriending the R's in the first place. If FW is indeed a molestor, that is for another trial, if he didn't molest JB. I say get that dirty bastar*, but don't confuse it with JB's case. Sounds like a coincidence, and that alone. And, I might add, if Beckner thinks FW is somehow entangled in morally empty activity, then shouldn't FW's children be taken away? Sounds like they're in danger, too. And, Beckner ain't doin' his job. Beeeeg surprise that would be,lol. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Political?" Posted by Nandee on 11:07:22 6/11/2000 According to ST, Beckner did not like the White's because they "supported another candidate for his new job". "The Whites were thrown to the wolves because they wanted a special prosecutor to look into the murder of a little girl." I guess in Beckner's book, trying to get justice for a dead child makes you "morally empty". I wonder what lable he has placed on the Ramsey's..... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Nandee." Posted by Holly on 11:20:48 6/11/2000 A thousand times NO. Beckner could care less about FW and his politics. "Morally empty" refers to FW's character, IMO. Politically incompatable might describe the other. Violating ethical standards of right behavior, is what I think masters degree educated Beckner met in cerebral Boulder. CO. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "tell me," Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:31:03 6/11/2000 did the Stine's or Fernie's or Walker's or Rev.Rol, violate "ethical standards of behavior", too? What does the masters degreed Beckner think of them? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Oooh, I get it" Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:59:56 6/11/2000 if we don't just take the word of posters who suspect FW, and if we don't ask comfortable questions, we are not worthy of answers. Where do we sign up? I need more than what's been given, before I walk with you, arms stretched. It just seems to me that ALL the players in this macabre case are MORALLY EMPTY, the other friends included. I believe Mame wholeheartedly when she says she believes in MW. The problem I have with that is what or how does this tie to the death of JBR? That is all I'm asking. FW needs to be dealt with when/if he is taken to task for past uglies. However, by exposing him for the monster he is, I feel we've lost our way to the question at hand, who killed JBR? Does FW know or does he not? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "Something going on?" Posted by Coolteach on 13:28:32 6/11/2000 I have a question. Has anyone ever explored the possibility of something going on between Patsy and Fleet? Just a thought I had: suppose that night after the party FW & Patsy waited until John was asleep, and Fleet came back to their house to see Patsy, and maybe JBR woke up and came in on them? Could John possibly be innocent, but secretly think Patsy did it and is covering for her? I don't know if that is a vague possibility, and I know that ST doesn't think Fleet is involved. Also, could the Garrotte have been made by Fleet much earlier, possibly to show the Ramseys how to make this kind of knot, and that, unrelated to Fleet, the killer got this pre-made knot to use to implicate FW? I still think strangluation could have happened another way and that the garrotte was added for staging purposes. It's possible. Btw...there was a documentary on Delta Burke last night, and I thought again that for a movie about this whole charade, Delta would make a great Patsy and how about Gene Hackman to play John?;-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "Coolteach " Posted by momo on 15:03:01 6/11/2000 I have always entertained the thought that Fleet and Patsy may have been having an affair. After all he is good looking. No doubt about that. I bet Patsy was flirtatious and one thing led to another. John was out of town alot and he did own a home right down from the Ramsey's. This also brings to mind the comment where JonBenet was telling the groundskeeper how much she missed her daddy. She started to cry. Is it possible that John was in no way involved but that Fleet and Patsy were? I have too many theories in this little head of mine. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "Edie" Posted by Nandee on 12:33:11 6/11/2000 Am I missing something here? Why is Fleet White a "monster"? What are his "past uglies"? Please enlighten me....... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "Fleet White & Linda Arndt" Posted by Anton on 13:57:29 6/11/2000 Linda Arndt, the only cop in the house at the time, told Fleet White and John Ramsey to check the house top to bottom for anything that was missing, out of place, etc. John led Fleet to the basement, where they poked around in the train room and a couple of closets before John went into the boiler room and then the "wine cellar". John found the body. Fleet knelt beside him, touched the feet. Then he ran, yelling for an ambulance. Why? John ran upstairs carrying the obviously-dead body and asked Arndt if JonBenét was dead. Arndt became fearful, counting her bullets. In the basement, leaning over the body, what did Fleet see in John? Why did Fleet run yelling for an ambulance rather than for the police? Why didn't he stay with John, his best friend who had just found his beloved daughter cruelly murdered? Did John say something to Fleet to cause Fleet to think the girl was somehow alive but in need of medical attention? Anton [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "Lake..." Posted by shadow on 13:27:29 6/11/2000 Mrs. shadow is "morally empty" when it comes to anyone who supports UNC - when I told her Lake said "hi," she smiled. Whether Fleet White is morally empty or not I don't know - but I have little doubt that Beckner, Hunter, the DA's Office, and others in Boulder have conspired to obstruct justice. shadow [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "Lake vs FW" Posted by Ryder on 15:04:22 6/11/2000 The only suspicious thing in this issue is the irrational animosity Lake expresses towards FW. Lake: "Fleet White appears satisfied to remain publically silent concerning some very serious and disturbing charges against his family and others from California. Charges made by someone with a connection to his family that is said to have lasted many years." Comment: Lake, I wouldn't dignify one iota of the irrational venom of your mysterious arguments against FW with an answer. If I were FW I wouldn't stoop so low as to dignify totally unfounded and depraved allegations. You always go on about FW not stepping up to defend the reputation of his family - he doesn't need to since these accusations are just a lot of speculative scapegoating IMO. Lake: "There are any number of actions taken by the Whites in the past three years that require close examination and a public response before the public can better understand the enigma of the Whites." Comment: The only enigma here, is YOUR reaction to the FW. Lake: "Should the Ramsey investigators have cooberated (sic) information (independent of NJK that supports her claims)that offers explanations for the Whites behavior over the past three years, then it will be brought out in the civil litigation that is to come." Comment: lol The Ramsey investigators have thus far produced a big fat ZERO of pertinent information to this case. Sorry, I forgot about the dead psychic's testimony. Lake: "But of course, any such trials are likely to be years down the road." Comment: lol Now isn't that timing convenient. We are supposed to condemn the Whites for absolutely nothing done to date, because YOU predict that we will have good reason to do so "years down the road." You really are too much. You have previously pointed out that the swamp and the Ramseys are staying away from the MW allegations regarding links to JB's death. Wonder why, lake. Why don't you explain to us all, here the REAL reason for this "lapse" of attention over at the swamp and in the Ramsey's public statements regarding a theory custom-made to throw the White's important testimony against the Ramseys under the bus. Please, in your explanation, could you try to not insult our intelligence in this forum. And Lake, what advantage to the Ramsey spin, could be had by getting JW rather than the swamp hooked into this pet theory of yours regarding the "sinister" Whites? Don't think that the logic behind all of this hasn't escaped me and many others here. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "Ryder" Posted by lake on 16:06:06 6/11/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:06:06, 6/11/2000 Your observations regarding me are of little or no importance to me. Let's get that out of the way. I take it that you have some personal contact and knowledge of the Whites that you can be so certain of your assessment of the Whites? I don't know the man like you seem to. But I do know that both you and Fleet White appear to be frauds. Don't know what your game is but it is pretty clear what Fleet White's game is. And as far as the behavior of Fleet White being suspect, that is a no brainer. The man has not been named publically as a suspect by the BPD. Their policy seems to be to not officially publically name suspects or to officially publically "clear" individuals unless they they somehow are forced to. And four (4) months into an investigation that lasted 3 years, Fleet White "forced" the BPD to publically "clear" him and his wife. Of course at that time the Whites were being billed by the media as probable key witnesses in the trial that was suspose to be right around the corner. But something happened after April of 1997. Something that really caused Fleet White to appear to start to worry about the the apparent reorganization and approach in the investigation into the killing of JBR. He seemed to loose whatever control he had over himself. He did some very foolish and irrational things. But since you know FW so well, you probably know all about that. And for me to suspect the behavior of Fleet White and his wife, is no different than Steve Thomas and others suspecting that Patsy Ramsey killed JBR over something as mundane as bedwetting and and that she wrote a 370+ word ransom note as a coverup. There is more evidence of the suspect behavior of Fleet White than there is for that absurd belief. And for you to attempt to scam people with your contention that it is not suspect for FW not to publically defend the good name of his family against the claims of the woman from Ca. when he was so hot about defending the BPD rank and file and the image of the City of Boulder with his letters to the editors and appearances before the Boulder City Council, is more than absurd. But I suspose the City of Boulder and the BPD rank and file are more important the FW than his family and the good name of his family? Dream on. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "Ryder" Posted by momo on 15:36:09 6/11/2000 Another good post as usual. Me thinks lake has too much personal animosity towards FW. You don't call people names unless you are personally involved. Someon is either too angry and bitter or very immature. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "Am I nutz too?" Posted by mary99 on 16:23:30 6/11/2000 I agree with lake. Fleet White is hinky in a major way and you would rather ignore what he said and post to his personality. That the swamp folk are chasing this story is irrelevant to the cause of jfJBR...is it written somewhere that we must believe the opposite of what they currently subscribe to? That may have been true in the past, but there's a 'new breed' of case followers since MW came forward. Ones who see more to this than PR whacking JBR in a ritual abuse/snuff film lookalike scenario...maybe a REAL ritual abuse/snuff film scenario? The swamp folk are certainly treading on mushy ground lately as they pursue the MW leads...all roads still lead to the Ramseys...it just a bigger, darker, uglier crime than PR killing JB over bedwetting. Lake is right when he analyzed the FW posturing. I don't think lake is Patsy, BTW, and if he WAS, what gain is there to suggest one's close friends were garrotters of children, morally corrupt individuals, hiding ugly family secrets that go back 50 years? Is that what the Ramseys are saying these days? The Ramsey silence on the allegations made by MW is the most damning piece of the whole MW puzzle to date. If they are quiet, she must be telling the truth, and the Ramseys were involved. Otherwise, wouldn't they be on TV right now, prodding the sluggish BPD to track down the killer she all but named out loud? Lake may know more than the average poster about Fleet White, but that info is available to anyone who takes the time to seek it out and read the different forums. As MW has shed a great deal of light on the case, she has also given us more weighty issues to ponder regarding the culture of sex, porn and violence we live in which most of us are never ever exposed to. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "Ryder " Posted by momo on 16:00:01 6/11/2000 You've been revealed as a fraud and a fake. LOL Now that is the funniest thing I have read today. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "Edie Pratt/Anton" Posted by Starling on 16:40:38 6/11/2000 Edie Pratt said: "What constitutes moral emptiness? Theft? Sex Rings? Child molestation? What did Beckner have that he could say such a thing, yet make no arrests? That is so slanderous, where's the proof?" Edie, my opinion of the morally empty statement is the direct result of Fleet White's reluctancy to further cooperate, once he was refused his prior statements. He talked to the cops 18x's - mostly at his own insistance - then he learned the Ramsey's had access to their own statements made that day and I think he felt it was only fair he should have access to his own. Maybe to him it was another example of the Ramsey's being treated better than anyone else and they were the ones regularly alluding the authorities. One can only take so much Ramsey chit, IMO. Anton - I've went over & over in my mind, why Fleet White ran upstairs, ahead of Johnk, screaming for an ambulance. The easy answer is it scared him seeing and touching a dead body, and then an adrenaline rush would probably take over. It should be noted, that he never completed the call and from everything I understand after he went back downstairs and touched the duct tape, he didn't re-enter the room where JonBenet's body had been re-laid out. The movie depicted him in another room. Maybe his adrenaline rush was wearing off, by that time. Then again there could be a complex answer. Starling [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "Thank you kindly, Starling" Posted by Edie Pratt on 16:56:51 6/11/2000 Now, at last, I think I've got it! It was his moral obligation to assist in the investigation any way he could, but instead, he chose to worry about his #1 fan, himself. Right? He had a past to protect, and he wanted to hurry up the arrests so that there wouldn't be a need to look at HIM. Right? But, he could see it wouldn't be that easy, so he headed the DA off at the pass by chumming up with his own "Lou Smit", Steve Thomas. Right? In essence, anything and everything FW has done in this case has been out of sheer paranoia and selfishness. JonBenet was no more important than MW, or anyone else that might be lurking in his closet. Right? Now, the only reason the Ramseys don't point at FW is because he has info that would incriminate them murder-wise, and that is probably what the dispute in Atlanta was all about. Something along the lines of blackmail, and "call off the dogs, or else"? Right? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "The Leap" Posted by lake on 17:46:32 6/11/2000 "Now, the only reason the Ramseys don't point at FW is because he has info that would incriminate them murder-wise, and that is probably what the dispute in Atlanta was all about. Something along the lines of blackmail, and "call off the dogs, or else"? Right?" ------------------------------------ You leaped off the cliff there Pratt. Fleet White will be exposed for his past actions if there is probable cause found. To assume that the Ramseys can be incriminated murder-wise (or ever could have been) by FW is a bit of wishful thinking. FW appears to have manipulated the BPD and (directly or indirectly) the media to keep the focus of the BPD and thereby the media off of him and his. Fleet White appears to have wanted the Ramseys to cooperate with the BPD from the beginning so that the case would not receive the national exposure and attention that it ultimately did receive. That indicates that he had a personal stake in the outcome of the investigation. But if the Ramseys were involved in the murder, the last thing they would have wanted is what happened media-wise in this case. But the Ramseys and their lawyers allowed that to happen and Fleet White and his wife became a part of that media campaign to focus only on the Ramseys through the media. And if the Ramseys knew about any dirt on the Whites, that would have become a part of the Ramsey defense if the Whites efforts were successful in having the Ramseys indicted, and certainly would have been used by the Ramsey lawyers (behind the scenes at least) to shut the Whites up very early on. After about August of 1997, I doubt this investigation was ever about indicting anyone. More like establishing with evidence and other proof who killed JBR, the nature and extent of the coverup, and who covered what. And the fact that The Star settled with the Ramseys regarding Burke, and there are two more suits filed on behalf of Burke sort of discounts that fact that Burke could be the one that did the deed. Not much doubt in my mind that there is another juvenile or two behind the smoke screen that has been thrown up around the investigation by about everyone that has actual knowledge of the facts and circumstances of this case. And if the claims of NJK are factual, then another juvenile behind the smoke screen is not a blind leap of fath at all. More like an even money bet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "Re: lake" Posted by Brightlight on 17:24:43 6/11/2000 No, mary99, you aren't nutz because you agree with lake. I've found his posts somewhat enlightening and rather enjoyable lately. Some of the new posters should pause to reflect on the fact that others here have vehemently disagreed with lake's posts in the past only to find, years later, that their thoughts aligned with his. And for the new posters who think lake is rude...you missed Masked Man. Actually there is one particular incarnation of lake that is rather rude but this current lake isn't him. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "Fleets getting the enema here...." Posted by Nandee on 17:22:17 6/11/2000 I keep reading cryptic comments like, "He did some very foolish and irrational things." and his "past uglies", but no one seems to be able to provide facts. ITRMI, page 331 - As one detective put it, I've never seen two people so f***ed over in my life." I have to agree. This man was investigated and cleared by the BPD. He made himself available to the BPD at least 18 interviews. He called for a special prosecutor and wrote letters to move this stalled case along. If the Ramsey's had cooperated to the same extent, maybe they wouldn't look so guilty. I don't blame this man for staying out of the public eye to protect his family. The Ramsey's should follow suit... The worst crime I have seen posted is that FW had no car insurance. I started this thread because I thought there was factual information I was not privy to. It appears there is only innuendo and baseless hogwash..... (Maybe Lake is Lin Wood....) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 77. "We don't know the Whites" Posted by darby on 19:13:12 6/11/2000 Unless some of the posters on this forum actually know the Whites personally, it's probably true that none of us know a thing about them. We may think we know them, but we don't. And as many here have pointed out, most if not all of Fleet White's public actions since the murder could be interpreted many ways. I suppose that my feelings about the Whites have always been basically positive. However, I've always been frustrated with them. I've always wondered when we would be hearing from the Whites. When I finally heard that Fleet had issued his first public letter, I initially felt overjoyed that at last we would hear from somebody who truly cares about JonBenet. After reading every word of the rambling letter, I remember feeling glad that at least somebody was speaking out, but at the same time, I was disappointed. I'm not sure what I expected, but I know I wanted to hear something more than what I was reading. Instead of focusing on the child, the letter spoke of politics in the DA's office and a call for the ouster of Alex Hunter. Maybe the goal was justice for JonBenet, but somehow that message got lost somewhere beneath all the words. And the ensuing public letters from the Whites have been more of the same. The last one calling for the removal of Michael Tracy is so beside the point of justice for that child that one has to wonder what Fleet's true agenda is. Steve Thomas spoke of eighteen interviews, most of which were initiated by the Whites. Thomas also said that the Whites needed to be treated like "skittish thoroughbreds." But we don't know what transpired in those interviews, and I don't think Thomas elaborated on why the Whites needed special treatment. Another thing we've heard is that Fleet White demanded but did not receive his prior statements. Again, we don't know why he wanted his prior statements. An easy guess would be that it was the principle of the matter, as the Ramseys got their priors. But wouldn't you think this type of thing could be cast aside in seeking justice for the murder of a six-year-old? We've heard of the Whites apparently supporting one candidate and then another for DA. Neither appears to have the Ramsey case as a priority on her ticket. We've heard of Fleet White being arrested for some small traffic violation. Are there more things that I've missed? Other than the above, not much else seems to be known about the Whites, other than they were the best friends of John and Patsy Ramsey and had their family over on Christmas night, 1996, the final night of JonBenet's life. The Whites apparently are no longer friends with the Ramseys. And now, a woman from California has said something about the Whites which may or may not be true. Her whole story is not public yet. But it will be. Is our knee-jerk reaction to say that no matter what she has to say, it's wrong? How could any of us know that at this point? It's true that we don't know her, but it's equally true that we don't know the Whites. That is why I'm waiting to hear the whole story before I make a decision. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 70. "Nandee" Posted by lake on 18:01:40 6/11/2000 "The worst crime I have seen posted is that FW had no car insurance. I started this thread because I thought there was factual information I was not privy to. It appears there is only innuendo and baseless hogwash....." Are you sure you are not Patsy Ramsey? Change the focus of that statement to Ramsey and you will be just as accurate. The case against the Ramseys is mostly that they acted guilty and there are no other viable explanitions for the murder. Well I say Fleet White and his wife acted suspicious as hell and there just may be another explination for the murder. The Thomas theory of this crime is just silly. A total disgrace to good police work. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 75. "lake" Posted by Nandee on 18:46:41 6/11/2000 Provide some FACTS and change my mind..... Just because you have a bee in your bonnet is not enough to hang this man.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 78. "Nandee" Posted by lake on 20:07:34 6/11/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 20:07:34, 6/11/2000 Why should I need to do that? I am just expressing opinions and judgements based on information and circumstances surrounding this case. Are you doing anything more? I just happen to think that my analysis and judgements will in the end prove to be much more accurate than yours. There is something more than just the stupidity of the BPD investigation and the DA that has kept anyone from being charged in this very high profile case for more than three years. There is likely a very big non-Ramsey reason behind the smoke screen that explains why the evidence of this case is represented as being so inconclusive after a 3 year multimillion dollar investigation and tons and tons of experts being consulted on that inconclusive evidence. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 80. "lake" Posted by Nandee on 21:02:37 6/11/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 21:02:37, 6/11/2000 "Why should I need to do that?" - Right, Lake.... you have your opinions, so you don't need facts to back them up. That's really apparent from all your posts. "I just happen to think my analysis and judgements will in the end prove to be much more accurate than yours." Again I say we have a psychic in our midsts...... We know Alex Hunter is in bed with the Ramsey's.... Who are you in bed with? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "Nandee" Posted by Edie Pratt on 17:51:09 6/11/2000 I only know what I've been told-that is, there is reason to believe FW had a hand in MW's pain and suffering. I do not know any more than what I read, but there's things others know because I'm sure they wouldn't say anything if they weren't sure. I only wish I had audio, because I never heard MW or anything she had to say. I don't even know if she mentioned the Whites in that interview. I'm just trying to piece together all the cryptic statments others have made about FW and the murder of JBR. I called FW a monster because of what I'm hearing. Past uglies means the behavior that constitutes a monster. So far, not many people have found fault with that label. I do not want it to be true, but tough, I guess. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 71. "Edie" Posted by Nandee on 18:01:48 6/11/2000 I guess I'm looking for some facts to hang my hat on and I've just not seen them. As far as I can tell, MW implicated FW Sr. I don't think that automattically taints FW Jr. I also know that on the APB.com forum, ST was adamant about FW's innocence. So far there is nothing on this thread to make me change my mind, but it has been interesting reading. I always appreciate other points of view and I'm not trying to convice anyone he is clean..... Thanks for the explanation.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 69. "Edie" Posted by mame on 18:01:16 6/11/2000 For the zillionth time I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT I TOTALLY BELIEVE THE ALLEGATIONS MADE BY THE WITNESS CAN BE LINKED TO THE JONBENET RAMSEY MURDER. i have never, ever said it once. what i have said is that i find her to be a credible human being. that is a far cry from what you said above! i have also said over and over and over...that it requires powerful investigative sources to connect the very compelling information she brings forward. please for the sake of truthful debate and discussion read what i say. the only way any of us find truth is through debate and discussion. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 74. "where, mame, did I say you " Posted by Edie Pratt on 18:29:47 6/11/2000 totally believe MW et al had something to do with JB's murder? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 72. "Mame" Posted by Nandee on 18:05:40 6/11/2000 THANK YOU! Your words were very powerful and I appreciate your honest and intersting posts. I agree that this is a place to exchange information, ferret out facts and debate and discuss the issues. The only thing that will change minds is the facts, wherever they may lead..... You have been most helpful... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 73. "Starling" Posted by Gemini on 18:25:06 6/11/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:25:06, 6/11/2000 Anton - I've went over & over in my mind, why Fleet White ran upstairs, ahead of Johnk, screaming for an ambulance. The easy answer is it scared him seeing and touching a dead body, and then an adrenaline rush would probably take over. It should be noted, that he never completed the call and from everything I understand after he went back downstairs and touched the duct tape, he didn't re-enter the room where JonBenet's body had been re-laid out. The movie depicted him in another room. Maybe his adrenaline rush was wearing off, by that time. This is an excellent observation. There's no point, imo, of trying to nit-pick and fault-find when it comes to actions immediately after finding JB's body. Irrational activity would be reasonable under those circumstances. I can't even fault Arndt for seeing the space ship come down and land on her nose ... or whatever she claimed. (edited to fix it :-) ) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 76. "Starling & Gemini" Posted by Anton on 19:00:47 6/11/2000 Right, I'm not saying there is anything sinister to FW's actions. Actually, that's the point I tried to make. Lake says FW's behavior was/has been weird. Well, so is John's and Patsy's and Alex Hunter's and just about everyone's attached to this investigation (except ours, of course). Anton [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 81. "Well I'll be happy to say it --" Posted by Holly on 10:53:18 6/12/2000 Fleet White was ordered by a law enforcement officer to stand by the basement door and not allow a single person down the steps. In other words, he was deputized, informally. He disobeyed that lawful order, went downstairs and damaged the crime scene. Hysterical reaction? Baloney. He should have been arrested and taken to BPD immediately. He should have been questioned until every move he made was documented. Every explanation for every stupid thing he did that day. And lets count 'em. He removed a material witness from the crime scene WITHOUT police permission. He allowed a backpack and game system to leave unchecked by police. He touched glass, a suitcase, possible point of entry, and claims to have peeked in the windowless room. Then he touched the body. Touched the duct tape. Fleet White is as responsible for damage to the crime scene as anyone else. He makes me retch. I will never excuse his gross behavior as an innocent hysterical reaction. Just like I won't excuse wiping JB's butt, changing her panties or any other intimate contact. He is no hero to JfFBR. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 84. "deputized?" Posted by Nandee on 15:10:03 6/12/2000 This is getting nuts.... Was he sworn in and given a badge? Did he raise his right hand and swear to uphold the laws of the BPD? When Arndt told JR to search the house, was she deputizing him? Fleet did what most of us would do given the same situation.... He reacted without thinking.... What was John Ramsey's excuse????? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 82. "Let me add --" Posted by Holly on 11:07:58 6/12/2000 That after corrupting the crime scene and defying a direct order given by a law enforcement officer, he kept on rolling. He thrust his obnoxious mug at Arndt and Thomas every chance he got. He quickly moved to create an effective offense, by portraying himself as a white knight. He manipulated a resourceful cop into a lap dog. He demanded, demanded and demanded. When that wasn't enough he started the letter writing campaign. Whine, whine, whine. Whine about Hunter, whine about Schiller, whine about Koby, whine to the City council. Posturing to convince everyone that he had nothing to hide and wanted only justice for JB. OK, Mr big shot oil tycoon. Put a million bucks on the table in the interest of justice for JB. Buy an add, fund a park or a memorial. Testify about the abuses kids suffer. You'll never do a thing, creep. You have too many skeletons. Why would Mark Beckner call a "hero" morally empty"? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 85. "Holly" Posted by Nandee on 15:11:23 6/12/2000 I have one word for you: VALLIUM! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 91. "Uh, Nandee" Posted by Holly on 05:53:53 6/13/2000 That's VALIUM. A violation of a direct order given by a law enforcement officer is called "failure to obey". It is a crime in every state I know of. Whether you want to admit it or not Fleet White broke the law. I know of NO ONE who would have gone back downstairs, tampered with the crime scene and gotten away with it. But it is true, FW has plenty to be hysterical about. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 83. "Now, THAT's more like it!" Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:29:37 6/12/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:29:37, 6/12/2000 I see Holly:-) You're absolutely right, those are not the actions of a white knight. When you put it in summary like that, it brings him into focus. I don't understand why he did what he did, especially the handling of evidence. The other thing I found odd in his actions, came from Arndt's GMA interview. She said FW crept up the stairs to the office. She stated she saw him hunched down by the desk, picked up the phone, then hung it back up and ran downstairs again. That never made sense to me, why did he sneak around like that? You're right, it's baloney to think he was all that shocked, otherwise he would have come running and screaming like a banshee. Afterall, he was awfully loud when he ran thru the house yelling, "JonBenet! JonBenet!", huh? Edited to say maybe Arndt counted her bullets not only for fear of JR, but all the others in the room, too? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 79. "Or maybe" Posted by Msracoon on 20:38:40 6/11/2000 the two men went downstairs to the basement and had a short discussion on whether or not to "find" her and bring her upstairs. Maybe (since JR was the carrier of the body) JR had decided to go ahead and bring her on up, and maybe that was not what FW wanted to happen at all. We don't know DO WE? WE were not in that basement area at that particular time on that particular day with those 2 particular men. Regarding a FW/JR blowup in Atlanta: Maybe some of the information that was thrown out there to us was "bad information", specifically and in THIS instance, the statement(s) that "FW was upset with JR for not going to the authorities" while he was in Atlanta. Maybe that was ALL wrong and did not occur at all. Maybe those were NOT the words spoken between them at all. We don't really know, do we? I do know one thing I can say, I have ALWAYS felt there is more to their relationship than meets our eyes and ears. Maybe they very simply had disagreements on how all of this was going to play out, such as, as mentioned above, THAT THE BODY WOULD/WOULD NOT BE FOUND IN THE BASEMENT. I certainly don't know the words they exchanged down there and no one else does either. The only part of this entire thing that I KNOW is true FOR CERTAIN is that Jon Benet Ramsey was found SEXUALLY ABUSED and DEAD in her own home the Christmas of 1996. Thank you. Ms.Rac. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 86. "from Time " Posted by Nandee on 15:43:18 6/12/2000 Fleet White described the alienation from the Ramseys to TIME: "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." "We only want to see justice done for JonBenet. Nobody is really working for her." AMEN..... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 87. "Nandee #86 & the others" Posted by Ryder on 09:33:02 6/13/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 09:33:02, 6/13/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 17:53:44, 6/12/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 17:51:08, 6/12/2000 Not only do I agree with you, but I find you quite courageous, given the nerves that this subject appears to hit. This IS getting nuts. Beyond the facts, there are areas here which call for each person's assessment of what appears credible and what does not. Regarding this area, I am with you. In all efforts to veer suspicion away from the Ramseys, we find roads to incriminate the maid, the former best friend and good old St. Nick. Surely no one thinks that it was a conspiracy of all three?! But, when all is said and done, no amount of dissipation of suspicion towards these different tracks of thought renders ANY ONE of the above three people more suspicious than the Ramseys. The day that some truly enlightening facts come forth to incriminate FW (or the housekeeper or Santa), I will be the first to announce a change of opinion, but like you, I haven't seen anything which makes me doubt FW's commitment to truth here. To the poster above who sees in FW nothing but posturing and whining, I would ask if this also the way she views Steve Thomas. I find it incredible that this is would be your opinion regarding one of the first people to draw attention to the obstruction of justice tactics of the Ramseys. I would also think that someone who is guilty of all the things people are accusing him of, would not draw as much attention to himself through his open letters. The Ramseys drew (and continue to) attention to themselves by: 1] being severely incriminated by the circumstances of their daughter's death 2]getting lawyers and refusing interviews for four months 3]refusing to let go of the spotlight by offering the public self-sponsored polygraphs and psychics as proof of their innocence. FW, is primarily known for the open letter he wrote, summarizing the exact same accusations regarding the investigation which Steve Thomas made. So, Nandee, I also say "Amen" insofar as I respect everyone's right to their own theories, but this subject is a dead end one for me, at least until something new turns up. P.S. But Lake, you are another story in this issue altogether. Why? Because your instincts lead to comments like I'm a "fraud"? If you read any of my posts carefully, you will find that I only comment on what is commonly known and attempt to make sense of it. Why? Because, unlike others, I can provide absolutely no juicy tidbits of inside stories. Sorry to disappoint you in that regard. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 88. "Ryder" Posted by Nandee on 17:51:15 6/12/2000 Some people believe everything they read and some people can only be swayed by the facts. I guess we know what category we both fall into. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 89. "Ryder/Nandee" Posted by Ribaldone on 18:48:24 6/12/2000 Thank you!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 90. "Steve Thomas--lap dog to Fleet White :-)" Posted by mary99 on 23:44:25 6/12/2000 Yes, my sentiments exactly! He never calls what happened to JB anything but 'vaginal abuse'...like it happened some other way than sexual abuse. That really stuck in my craw as I read his book. In the whole of Thomas's book, he never ever goes near any of the things about Fleet White that demand to be said. It's a fluff piece, IMO, which hits PR hard and never asks the right questions about FW. Personally, I think Thomas has betrayed JonBenet too by denying she was sexually abused, molested or however one wishes to describe it. That vaginal injuries, like an absent hymen, came from 'rough toilet training' is ludicrous. Any detective should give more weight to all sides and not focus on just one POV to the exclusion of all others. It's no wonder he left the BPD--he was too gung-ho to be objective. That baby face doesn't melt me one bit! If he was old and paunchy, we would see Thomas's actions differently, I bet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 92. "mary99" Posted by Ryder on 10:01:48 6/13/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:01:48, 6/13/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:00:29, 6/13/2000 mary99 > Have you any rough idea of how many possible meanings could be attributed to a phrase like "morally corrupt"? Or do you just assume that this is positive proof of FW's link to child sex porn ring? I too, am curious about why Beckner would make such a statement but there are miles and miles between my curiosity and jumping to sensationalist conclusions. If FW, out of principle, demanded the same privileges extended to the Ramseys, THAT could be labeled as "morally corrupt" by Beckner, so please, let's recognize just how vague and subjective the phrase "morally corrupt" really is. Quite frankly, I don't know how you go from sentence 1 of the above quote to sentence 2. i.e. Where do you see the objectivity in the views you state regarding FW and the meaning of "morally corrupt". Sounds to me like you need some objectivity regarding Beckner's interpretation of that sentence. BTW, I don't feel any BPD people, including Beckner warrant any FURTHER attacks. I just happen to feel that taking these words out of the context of Beckner's MIND and making them mean something to implicate a link between MW and the Ramsey case, is a quite a leap (a very UNobjective one, IMO). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 94. "this thing reminds me" Posted by Edie Pratt on 10:43:57 6/13/2000 of when I was little. A girl moved into our neighborhood and we became friends. We were only 7 or 8. Anyway, we walked in her house one day while her father was really giving it to her big brother. I mean, he was livid! So, not knowing what to say or do, I opened my big mouth and said, "What's a matter, Jimmy? Did your dad catch you smoking?" W-ell, aparantly his dad didn't know, I opened that can of worms, and poor Jimmy was frisked and busted. Same thing here, I think. Dead body in Rams basement, but FW had more to hide, as it turns out. Does that make any sense at all? His trouble was about to be exposed by simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and he has been on pins and needles ever since. He had no business touching anything, or dissing the detective that gave him orders. Holly is right about that, anyone else would have been arrested! I also read on another thread, that Pisces referred to PW as "409 White", which means PW wiped everything down! Is that true? I always thought the Victim's Advocates did that, anyone? I am disappointed in all the "guests" from that morning, it's as though the whole damned thing was planned. Right down to Rev. Rol. Whoever wrote earlier that all the guests had client/patient/atty priveledges, right on! And, if they didn't, they were employed as "loyal friends" that wouldn't dare speak out and lose their titles. Sounds like JR did ALOT for the people he deemed worthy of his friendship and caring, doesn't it? Right down to arranging new lives for his acquaintances, the Stines. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 93. "What more could they ask for?" Posted by shadow on 10:25:36 6/13/2000 The Ramseys and their supporters must be reveling in the irony of it all... the so-called "JW Forum lynch mob" actually lynching the Ramsey's bitter enemies - Fleet White and Steve Thomas. shadow [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 95. "Ryder & shadow" Posted by fly on 10:58:37 6/13/2000 shadow - No doubt, no doubt at all. Ryder - You're right. BPD spent weeks investigating MW's story regarding the JBR case and then announced there was no evidence of any link. That "minor" fact tends to be ignored in favor of interpretations that favor one's personal point of view. Go figure. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 96. "Comments on FW & ST" Posted by mary99 on 12:12:35 6/13/2000 Long before the 'morally corrupt' remark, long before MW, I had doubts and suspicions about White. PMPT did little to answer my questions regarding FW. Of all the case figures, he, his background and his life remain a mystery to this day. Thomas's book followed hard upon on the allegations made by MW, and DOI. when the book did come out, I thought there would be references to MW, and more background on White just in case the MW angle proved to be the solution to the lingering questions about garrotting, sexual abuse, etc. Not only did Thomas say nothing bad about FW, he didn't even repeat any rumors to make him look bad. He did repeat all the other rumors and innuendos which have circulated about the H-P's, the McR's...all other case figures EXCEPT White. NOTHING White has ever done or said raised Thomas's suspicion. Is he unaware? I doubt it. I think he purposefully guided the investigation AWAY from the touchy areas that were of concern to FW. That was before MW...Thomas was focussing on PR and AWAY from incest, sexual abuse, the ritual abuse aspects of the crime, the pageant collars, the arm bruises...all significant parts of MW story in retrospect. For Thomas to have so doggedly pursued one particular suspect, and one particular scenario, or motive -- bedwetting... does not fit the evidence. That's where and when I realized he was NOT objective, and who most benefited from that lack of objectivity? Certainly not JonBenet. JR and FW did, however. For Thomas to dance so perfectly during the time he was with the BPD around the MW allegations BEFORE they came to light can mean a few things. He was right, PR did it, but he wasn't objective enough to look at all the pther players with the same critical and suspicious eye he reserved for PR. Or, he was plain wrong, and should have brought up thiose doubts and concerns in the book, to cover all the bases just in the event more would come out latr to support those other theories. Or, he knew from investigating Fleet White, that he had a 'past' that put would the heat on White and off PR if it came to light. So, in the name of (what, justice?) he left FW alone and promoted PR as the killa...to be sorely disappointed when Hunter and all didn't 'bite'. If the latter is true, how can he be 'for' jfJBR but only if a certain suspect is arrested? Why was he unwilling or unable to see why Hunter and others saw sexual abuse, ritual abuse aspects, and explore the pornography angle Singular alluded to? To me it's no coincidence that MW's allegations went directly to what Thomas avoided. If you think about it, the most sensible explanation is that Thomas knew why White was 'morally empty' long before MW, Boykin or anything else had surfaced, and for some reason, became White's informant and protector...in retrospect, it works for me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 97. "sure, right, whatever" Posted by Nandee on 12:21:35 6/13/2000 or maybe ST just investigated FW and eliminated him as a suspect. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 98. "New Thread" Posted by momo on 14:57:20 6/13/2000 I am starting a new thread!!!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]