Justice Watch Discussion Board "Susan Stine Part 2" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Susan Stine Part 2, Jeanilou, 23:20:30, 6/16/2000 Jeanilou, Greenleaf, 08:24:56, 6/17/2000, (#1) yep, Nandee, 08:48:51, 6/17/2000, (#2) Nandee, v_p, 08:53:54, 6/17/2000, (#3) Roxie, Nandee, 10:47:00, 6/17/2000, (#4) The Pit Bull, Ginja, 11:37:30, 6/17/2000, (#5) xmas party guests, Nandee, 11:49:08, 6/17/2000, (#6) Last stop?, v_p, 11:57:43, 6/17/2000, (#9) so, does that make Patsy a, Edie Pratt, 11:54:24, 6/17/2000, (#8) What if???, starry, 11:51:47, 6/17/2000, (#7) Nandee!, Ginja, 13:27:24, 6/17/2000, (#10) Ginja, jeanni & others, Ryder, 13:59:47, 6/17/2000, (#11) Ginja....just for the record....., Jeanilou, 15:51:23, 6/17/2000, (#12) glad to see it brought up, Kelly, 18:58:32, 6/17/2000, (#13) It would be good, momo, 05:22:45, 6/18/2000, (#14) ................................................................... "Susan Stine Part 2" Posted by Jeanilou on 23:20:30 6/16/2000 I hope no one minds that I started a new thread on Susan but it gets tiresome having to scroll down to get to the new messages sometimes. Forgive if I stepped on anyone toes by opening another Susan Stine thread. I have recently become aware of how important it is to read other forums. That was not my wont before but it is now. I just came from reading a thread about Susan Stine on another site, and something occurred to me. Now, this may have already been throughly discussed before, and I cannot imagine it has not but what IF Patsy and Susan are lovers? (Keyword IF) HEAR ME OUT FIRST PLEASE! I say this because: (1)It was mentioned on another forum that Patsy had said she does not like sex. Now, a lot of married women who don't like sex with men tend to find sex with a woman more to their liking. (2)Usually in a lesbian relationship, one party is extremely feminine and the other has masculine qualities and looks. (Perfect example, Ellen DeGeneres and Anne Heche) People has said on here that Susan reminds them of a man. We know that Patsy is the feminine type. (3) Susan seems to be most protective of Patsy (as compared to other members of the Ramsey family) as would a lover. (4) For a friend to pull up and move across country might seem strange, but for a lover to do the same, does not. (5)And finally, the conversation I tried to have with the person who is named Pstyr, which I read just tonight is one of the Ramseys or Ramsey friends AOL screen names, told me it was her "lovers" screen name. And I will publish the conversation so you can read it for yourself: Begin IM - 6/4/00 01:43 PM Jeanilou: Is this really Patsy Ramsey or was I given wrong information? Pstyr: What? Jeanilou: Sorry to bother you but I was told I could reach Patsy Ramsey via this screen name. Is that correct? Pstyr: I don't know. This is my lover screen name. Jeanilou: Okay. I am a bit confused. You don't know if you are P. Ramsey or not? Or you don't know if your lover is using this screen name as Patsy? I am not wanting to intrude on your privacy but I am curious. I beg your pardon if I have reach the wrong person. I was going to email when I saw you pop on line to ask the same questions. Jeanilou: It is as simple as this: I am doing some research on line about the JonBenet Ramsey case and someone told me I could contact her mother using the Pstyr screenname Jeanilou: I just want to verify one way or another Jeanilou: If I have the wrong party, I apologize. And I won't intrude anymore THIS IS ALL JUST SUPPOSITION, MIND YOU. NOTHING MORE. Jeani This is writing contains my opinion only and is my property alone. You may not copy or reproduce in any manner without my express permission. Copyright 2000 by Jeanilou All rights reserved! Read about copyright laws here: http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/ Help fight Internet theft. Know your rights. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Jeanilou" Posted by Greenleaf on 08:24:56 6/17/2000 You wrote: "Now, this may have already been throughly discussed before, and I cannot imagine it has not but what IF Patsy and Susan are lovers?" Yes, Jeanilou, this has been discussed before, here at JW. I have thought (since first seeing SS on the crock) that it is not only possible but probable. It would certainly explain SS's seemingly undying loyality for PR. Greenleaf p.s. I always enjoy your thought-provoking posts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "yep" Posted by Nandee on 08:49:20 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:49:20, 6/17/2000 It has crossed my mind! (so the men found their jollies elsewhere.) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Nandee" Posted by v_p on 08:53:54 6/17/2000 So the men found their jollies elsewhere. Wow nandee, that sent a chill right through me. Perhaps they did. V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Roxie" Posted by Nandee on 10:47:00 6/17/2000 Where does Roxie Walker fit into this picture? Was she SS's friend or Patsy's? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "The Pit Bull" Posted by Ginja on 11:37:30 6/17/2000 Jeanilou started a thread on her reading of DOI...as a 'newbie' to the case, DOI was her first reference source for information. It was really interesting to what things popped out at her. Ryder's doing the same thing here, based on his/her introduction to the case viewing the crockumentary. Again, this is really interesting to see the perspective, and what Ryder picks up on the Pit Bull. I don't think there's much that's been put out on this case that I haven't read or watched or heard. But pulling it altogether from all the various sources, this is the picture I get. The relationship between the two families comes off as opportunists being in the right place at the right time. I have no doubt they've known each other for some, but I don't believe the Stines were in the inner-inner circle, although they were close. My belief is the inner-inner circle starts with the Whites at the top of the list, with the Fernies following. Everyone lived together in basically the same neighborhood and their kids went to school together. So the second tier, the inner circle, forms. This is where the Walkers would come in and probably be alone in third place or share the spot with the Stines. Outside this circle are the social friends and/or business associate friends, where we find the likes of Bynum, Beuf, Elowski, etc. Patsy was a social climber, active in school and civic activities, as well as dabbling in a few college courses. Education means a lot to Patsy, and this is seen in her relationship with the Pit Bull, another college graduate. The two used to sign their notes and letters with acronyms that included their degrees and/or majors. To me, this is key in "decoding" the SBTC at the end of the ransom note. It's significance to Patsy is imperative in it's use and meaning. Acronyms play a major role to identification in her signature lines, at least with the all of her correspondence with Stine! The five couples socialized together as a group at a number of functions, including AG business functions and Ramsey personal functions, including the Xmas party of the 23rd. Then on Christmas Day, the Rams shared Christmas dinner with the Whites. After leaving the home of their best friends who top their inner-inner circle list, the plan was to drop off gift baskets to the other three couples of the inner sanctum. Their route was simple and direct, going from house to house on their way home. They started at the Walkers. Everyone was awake and JR pulled up to the door. Patsy went to the door as the family watched from the car. Burke accompanied Patsy in one of the drop-offs, I can't remember which one, though. Next on the route home was the Stines. Same scenario. But I think DOI explains that because they spent so much time in the driveway chit-chatting, with an early trip in a few hours, they decided to skip the Fernies and go straight home. It was during the trip from the Stines to 15th Street, JonBenet reportedly fell asleep. The following morning the Rams called the inner-inner circle friends first -- Fernie and White. White, being the closest, and probably thought most trustworthy, friend was charged with removing Burke from the home where Burke couldn't be questioned by cops, detectives or social services, and brought to Fleet's. Fleet handled everything 'personal'...making the phone calls to everyone, making travel arrangements for the circles friends, and whatnot. While he tended to that business, the Ramseys leaned on the next family in the innner-inner circle, the Fernies, for immediate accomodations. Off to Atlanta, and it didn't take White to realize something suspicious about his best friends' actions, so there was a confrontation in Atlanta. The battle lines were drawn: White was out and everyone in the inner sanctum moved up the ladder. I think the confrontation upset more than Ramsey, so when everyone returned to Boulder, he cooled it a bit and moved in with Elowsky. A lotta bull started happening...Elowsky was arrested for wieling a baseball bat at reporters with Patsy going to bat for him. The memorial was over and members of the Church were beginning to smell a skunk, realizing they had been used, so members started turning away from the Ramseys. I'm not sure if that was the reason, or if the Walkers just decided on their own, as White, that things just weren't kosher, so they slipped out of the picture. Thus, the Stines moved up the ladder again and basically took over first spot in the inner-inner circle. That's their prized possession and they ain't letting go. A couple of Stine 'boners' you missed, Ryder, was the Pit Bull's attack on the media. As a matter of fact, I think it was Shapiro, but not sure. But a reporter went up to their doorstop and the Pit Bull naturally opened the door (a crack, since it was chained if I remember correctly) and demanded he hand over id when he told her he was a reporter. She grabbed it from him and slammed the door in his face, went over to the phone, and called BPD...told them there was a stalker in her yard. The BPD responded, putting the reporter down on the ground and cuffing him. She thought that was quite amusing, but if I'm not mistaken, I think she got in trouble for calling in a false report. Her other "fun" antic was to call Tony Frost's home (the editor of the Globe) asking for Tony. His wife answered the phone and the Pit Bull made like she was a Tony's mistress. How did Michael Tracy wind up in this picture? I don't remember exactly. I'll post what I "think" happened and maybe it'll tweek someone's memory as to whether I remember it right or I'm way off base. But it seems to me that Patsy was taking courses at CU, painting or something, so she knew her way around campus. She was also on her campaign to fight the media, because as far as she was concerned, it was yellow journalism all the way. She wound up talking to a journalism class at CU. Was this Tracey's class? I don't remember. But eventually the two were "introduced"...whether by acquaintances or themselves going directly to the other and making the introduction personally. Tracy couldn't get any financing here in the States and wound up getting it in Britain from a rich guy there...I can picture him, I can't remember his name or what he does for a living. They put the crock up for sale at a hefty million dollar price tag (or $3million, something like that). They thought it would get snatched right up. It didn't happen. I think the local networks here held out and said no way to the price. Ditto in Britain. They got desparate and wound up piecemealing it here and there, a 90 minute version in the UK, and 60 minute version in the US (commercials paying for it's run). I think A&E eventually bought it up and was the one piecemealing it out. Finaly thought...when I saw the name of Stine's business, "Kaludis", it hit me. Kaludis is Latin for Colluders! LOL [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "xmas party guests" Posted by Nandee on 11:49:08 6/17/2000 The Stiens were at the Ramsey's Christmas party. Also Susan's mother and Glenn's mother were there. I still have questions on the timing Christmas night. It seems there are discrepancies about when they left the Whites, how much time was spent delivering gifts to the Stiens and the Walkers and when the Rams got home and put JB to bed.... I'm going to check the stories in my books and from interviews and post them. Anyone who has this info at their fingertips.... Jump right in!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Last stop?" Posted by v_p on 11:57:43 6/17/2000 They missed the stop at the Fernies because of the time factor, right. Maybe the Fernies were expecting the Rams to stop by, so when the Rams got home, they called the Ferns and told them to come by first thing in the morning to pick up their gifts. Maybe Fernie was doing just that when he went around to the back door and saw the note on the floor. IMO, Fernie was there much too early for any reasonable explanation. Maybe Fernie came by that night when they got home - to pick up the gifts and that's when the awful accident happened. He walked in through the unlocked front door or used his key - helped them cover it up - knowing it was an accident - PR hit JBR by mistake, meant to hit JR. Doesn't it make sense the Rams would have called the Fernies to arrange a time for them to pick up their gifts? V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "so, does that make Patsy a" Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:54:24 6/17/2000 LIPSTICK LESBIAN, lol? Get it? And, I guess that makes SS "Gertrude Stine", huh? Too funny Jeani, but you just might have found the key to Rebecca, so to speak:-)Great post as usual. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "What if???" Posted by starry on 11:51:47 6/17/2000 PR isn't SS's lover, but SS is in love with the Phatster? I know of two women, one of them is married and I don't think she's gay, but her friend, I would bet the farm on being gay. Anyhow, the friend, sticks as close to the "straight" woman as she possibly can, including moving in with them when she was ill. I'm sure the straight woman knows of her friend's longings, but somehow I don't think they're involved other than just being friends. Perhaps I'm naive or stupid. I think they're just friends regardless of the other's preferences. But, I do think, the other woman would jump at the chance to have a different type of relationship. Maybe this is similar to SS and PR. PR just doesn't strike me as being sexual in any way, shape or form. I think JR was involved with JBR's sexual abuse without PR's participation. Maybe she knew or suspected, but as long as he wasn't "bothering" her, she was turning a blind eye and deaf ear to it. JMO [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Nandee!" Posted by Ginja on 13:27:24 6/17/2000 I still have questions on the timing Christmas night. It seems there are discrepancies about when they left the Whites, how much time was spent delivering gifts to the Stiens and the Walkers and when the Rams got home and put JB to bed.... Right! But for the first time, after reading this, I thought of a different reason as to why they changed their timeline. Popular opinion has held that because their timelines didn't jibe...people asking too many questions...the Rams 'adjusted' it to cover all bases and answer all the questions. That timeline was initially set by the Rams when they told the police on the 26th they had left the Whites a little after 9, made a few runs, and by the time they got home and put JBR to bed, it was 10 o'clock. What if JR thought he had the Whites in his back pocket and they'd go along with anything he said? Or the Walkers? This was the inner sanctum and I don't think Ramsey ever thought they'd stray. But they did and eventually reported, to either police or the grand jury, the "real" time they last saw their friends that night. Hmmmmmm.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Ginja, jeanni & others" Posted by Ryder on 14:03:55 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:03:55, 6/17/2000 Ginja, I think your posts here are very insightful. I think your understanding of the dynamics, interests and priorities with regard to this (the social angle) is really good. Jeanni & those of you considering a sexual motivation behind the Patsy & SS alliance: my instincts don't take me there at all. I don't see this as probable given my understanding of these 2 personalities. In fact, I think these theories run counter to the social ladder logic which Ginja has laid out. Nor do I think, as it has been elsewhere suggested that either the Stines or other friends had anything to do with the key events happening in that house: i.e. JB's death & the staging. While my initial post did make the assertion that SS's devotion to the Ramsey cause appears extreme, the relevance of this to the key events, for me, lies with her credibility as an individual capable of the necessary objectivity to corroborate ANYTHING in this case, specifically the key issue of the RAmsey arrival time at home. Issues of a sexual nature seem irrelevant here and improbable. Irrelevant because they don't shed much light on any aspect of the case, IMO. Improbable, certainly for Patsy because she stands by so much of the beauty pageant stuff, which is a deeply traditional "feminine" sort of approach to women - hardly in keeping with "alternative" sexual patterns. You're really talking about 2 opposing mentalities here, IMO, so this line of theorizing seems ultimately futile. At best, you might theorize about SS latency but even that doesn't seem too realistic. That's not the sort of impression I get from SS. I think Ginja's line of thinking is more probable. I see here social and monetary interests looming large in all of the player's minds. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Ginja....just for the record....." Posted by Jeanilou on 15:51:23 6/17/2000 Ginja, my friend, just for the record, I read PMPT first, followed by DOI, and finally ST, and now I am in the process of re-reading DOI, making notes of things that don't jive with me. After I finish DOI, I will re-read PMPT, and compare to DOI, and finally ST, and compare once again. But my DOI analysis may have to wait. I just got "The Day After Tomorrow" from the library, which was in the Ramseys house and I believe refers to beheading and garrotting in it. I am awaiting John Douglas's "Mind Hunter" to come back into the library for reading next. I will keep you all posted as I progress though. Jeani [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "glad to see it brought up" Posted by Kelly on 18:58:32 6/17/2000 I've noticed that the protection SS has offered PR goes way beyond that of either of Patsy's sisters or parents. I think SS would die on a cross for Patsy. It has seemed to me for a long time that SS is so desperately in love with PR that she would move mountains for her if she could. As for Patsy, no, I don't think she is having a sexual relationship with Susan. I think she is using Susan to help her stay hidden because she is aware of how Susan feels about her and Patsy needs Susan's protection, whether Patsy likes it or not. If the tables had been turned, would Patsy have protected and covered for Susan in the same way? I don't think so. Patsy is an opportunist, that would of been of no benefit to Patsy's image to protect Susan if the tables were turned. I'm not defending SS, and I can't help but get disgusted everytime I see her or hear of her continually providing a front for Patsy, but I do feel sorry for Susan because she is being so used. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "It would be good" Posted by momo on 05:22:45 6/18/2000 to find out the dynamics of SS relationship with her mother. I bet that holds the key to her need to protect Patsy. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]