Justice Watch Discussion Board "Behind The Freezer?" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Behind The Freezer?, Nandee, 10:53:28, 6/17/2000 The freezer..., Dianne E., 11:18:16, 6/17/2000, (#1) I think..., Ginja, 14:04:22, 6/17/2000, (#2) Dianne E., Ginja, 14:25:50, 6/17/2000, (#3) What is so crazy , momo, 15:42:49, 6/17/2000, (#4) Ginja,YES!, Edie Pratt, 18:43:43, 6/17/2000, (#5) ................................................................... "Behind The Freezer?" Posted by Nandee on 10:53:28 6/17/2000 I am sure this subject has been picked over, but since it's slow, I have some questions regarding cryptic posts I have read over the past few months regardin the freezer in the basement: 1. Why do people believe JB was behind it? 2. What size was it? 3. Was it Jameson who went into the house and moved the freezer to prove the scraping sound couldn't be heard upstairs? 4. Why was Jameson allowed in the house and why was this point so important? 5. When Jameson moved it, was it empty, thus weighing less? Thanks, in advance, for letting me revisit this issue. I so appreciate the willingness of the JW posters to share their information...... [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "The freezer..." Posted by Dianne E. on 11:18:16 6/17/2000 ...is certainly worthy of further discussion, the freezer area and location was a Group Jameson focus area and many posts were made about Sick Puppy (SP) now know as The Creature (TC) and the freezer. If memory serves me correct Group Jameson went into lengthy posts about SP aka TC had some weird posts about JonBenet being molested on the freezer, anyone else remember? I also recall discussion over the freezer being a location that JonBenet was stored. Wonder if the BPD looked in the freezer on that quick look in the basement? Another funny "hinky" is why didn't anyone on the search of the basement that morning notice the broken window and glass and the open window - the one that JohnBoy supposedly shut? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Dianne E. ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "I think..." Posted by Ginja on 14:09:14 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:09:14, 6/17/2000 ...a lot of people tried putting two and two together...one, that Fleet didn't see the body when he looked into the 'wine' cellar, the other wondering what JR was doing for 40 minutes while down in the basement later that morning. Melanie Stanton heard a scraping noise...like concrete on metal, as she described it. Personally, I don't think moving the freezer in the basement would cause that sound...at least loud enough for the neighbors to hear. The cops pulled a large piece of sheet metal out of the basement. If it was standing against the wall and someone bumped into, sending it crashing onto the floor, there's possibilities such scraping (or crashing) on the cement could make the loud noise. Others opined that this could have been the intruder moving the grate out (or onto) the window well. On a clear, silent night, noise travels. It could have simply been an animal jumping or running across metal garbage cans/bins. Melanie also heard a blood-curdling scream sometime after midnight. Smit had determined that Stanton was able to hear that scream from within the basement through an old air duct through the basement wall to the outside. I think, but not sure, that the freezer was in the same room. Thus, the theory she was molested/attacked "on" the freezer in the room with the air duct. Something nags me about the freezer maybe being pulled away from the wall, but this is vague. Anyway, some peoople thought she might have been hidden in the freezer and then John moved her later that morning. Here's what needs to be considered in any hiding/moving scenario: the mortises. They begin immediately upon death, but take about two hours to set. That is, the blood gravitates and pools, and the joints stiffen. In 4 to 6 hours, the mortises become fixed. That is, if you tried to bring her arms down to her sides, you'd really have to force, most probably breaking bones to accomplish it. I think the mortises remain fixed like this up to 18 hours, and then they begin their journey back to relaxation. By 36 hours, the body is moveable without any stiffness of tension. Key here is that while the mortises are setting in, if you move the body, the mortis process ends. This is why police aren't allowed to touch any bodies until the coroner's had a chance to fully analyze the crime scene and position the body's in. He can tell at that point whether the body died there, or was moved from the murder scene. So. If the body was hidden, say for later disposal or whatever, she had to be moved within the very first hours before the mortises set. There was a lot of talk about the different places where the body could have been hidden. The evidence shows us that JonBenet either died with her arms over her head and her legs outstretched, or she was "placed" in that position soon after death before the setting. This pretty much kills hiding places like inside the freezer or in the dumbwaiter, as the spaces weren't large enough for her to be laid out straight like that. There was talk about the crawl space being the hidding spot, but I don't know the dimensions to know if that's workable. It pretty much boils down to her being laid out, outstretched, somewhere. French is kicking himself for not opening the door to the wine cellar to peek in. He didn't, because the door was latched from the outside and so he figured there was no way an intruder could lock it behind him on his way out, or that he'd be that conscientious to lock it after he'd been inside. But if she was laying behind the freezer and he didn't see her, imagine the fallout! My personal favorite is that she was laid out in the wine cellar and the door locked...but she was tucked in a corner out of sight. So it's no wonder Fleet didn't see her when he peeked in. John's upstairs realizing French didn't go inside, and Fleet didn't see her when he looked inside, so John had to go down and pull her out from the corner to make sure "someone" found her on their next pass. Lucky for him, though, Ardnt didn't have to say much for him to run like a bat out of hell straight for the wine cellar. Jmo [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Dianne E." Posted by Ginja on 14:25:50 6/17/2000 Not making excuses but in thinking aloud, French, and he's the only one who went down into the basement for the initial cursory search, wasn't looking for a body. He was responding to a kidnap call and was checking the basement for points of entry/egress. In his 'search', he noted there were no signs of forced entry, that there was no debris or dust disturbance around windows, or footprints or anything like that leading to the windows. I get the two windows in question confused...one was open with a suitcase perched against it and the other was broken. One was under the dining room and had a grate covering the well. The other one led to nowhere (a crawl space between the original foundation and the new addition). He may have made the determination that the crawlspace went nowhere, so he nixed it, regardless of whether it was open (or broken). He may have given the grated window a look/see and saw no disturbance around the sill, determining there was no way someone crawled through without wiping off the dust and dirt. But he also went outside and joined another officer. From the outside, they saw the spider web in the grate...and no footprints. It's like the pry marks on the back door. They noted the door had the marks. But they also noted those marks were weathered and weren't scraped in the night before. JR also threw out that there was another door that was unlocked, the intruder could have come in through there. The problem with that was that the unlocked door opened into a foyer or porch or ante room of somekind and you had to enter another door to get into the house. That second, inside door was locked. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "What is so crazy " Posted by momo on 15:42:49 6/17/2000 to me is that Jameson said the scraping couldn't be heard upstairs! Well no kidding DINGBAT! JonBenet's scream obviously wasn't heard upstairs either! The Ramsey's bedroom seemed to be a soundproof escape from reality. The woman across the street heard the scream and her husband heard the scraping. Jameson was set up to go into the house to PROVE a point. Point taken. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Ginja,YES!" Posted by Edie Pratt on 18:49:44 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:49:44, 6/17/2000 exactly, French was looking for escape/entry.Not behind freezers or behind mountains of junk. I doubt he ever bent over, let alone pry. When JR went to the basement, he knew search warrants were coming, he needed to move the body to a place more out in the open. In other words, after things weren't going like he'd planned, he realized how really incredible it would be for the intruder to have hidden the body. So, he moved the corpse and needed a bracer afterward. He must have held his breath the entire time he gingerly inched the body toward it's final mark, hence the "ashen faced", suddenly depressed look the cops noted. Might have had a close call, too. I watched John Ramsey again, today. The "S U B T R A C T" travesty, where he denies killing his daughter, and is hurt as a family by innuendos that she'd been molested. Ginja, he did it. He was fighting for his life with that performance, and you could see his fear. He shook his head yes, while he said,"I did not kill my daughter". PR still looked upset, or alot more so than these last coupla years, and seemed a tad bit angrier at the "monster" out there. Maybe it's me, but I doubt JR gave PR a VICTORY TOUR just to make her a star. The media appearances have always been for John's benefit. He wants us to see his own living hell,his cross to bear - Patsy. And, here's another thing I observed:-) The interview with Katie C, when she brought up the bedwetting scenario to PR, once again, just like the Crock, JR started with the "help! I'm a hostage" eye shifting, signaling to the interviewer that THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED! Do I make sense? He wants us to think it's her, and the bedwetting is the key. Just don't let's talk about the molestation... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]