Justice Watch Discussion Board "Showerhead Discussion" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Showerhead Discussion, Paralegal, 10:27:46, 6/17/2000 Transfer from "hellhole" thread, v_p, 10:33:21, 6/17/2000, (#1) Images to Ponder, v_p, 10:51:04, 6/17/2000, (#2) v_p, Greenleaf, 10:54:48, 6/17/2000, (#3) Pulling my most from Hellhole thread, darby, 10:55:49, 6/17/2000, (#4) Greenie?, v_p, 11:10:17, 6/17/2000, (#5) I can see it.., 1000Sparks, 11:12:44, 6/17/2000, (#6) OOOOOHHH!, Paralegal, 12:14:20, 6/17/2000, (#8) Paralegal, frankg, 13:00:20, 6/17/2000, (#16) If I'm Not Mistaken..., Paralegal, 17:20:14, 6/17/2000, (#23) Paralegal, frankg, 07:05:56, 6/18/2000, (#36) shower head, Seashell, 12:07:41, 6/17/2000, (#7) There's a dot missing..., Ginja, 12:49:52, 6/17/2000, (#15) remember Carol M's interview, Edie Pratt, 12:28:32, 6/17/2000, (#10) Well Sea, Paralegal, 12:23:02, 6/17/2000, (#9) Let's just say, v_p, 12:37:42, 6/17/2000, (#12) Hiding in the shower, sabrina, 12:37:31, 6/17/2000, (#11) "X", lee2, 12:38:13, 6/17/2000, (#13) those pictures, ibnora, 12:49:51, 6/17/2000, (#14) Cigarette Analysis, Ginja, 13:01:44, 6/17/2000, (#17) The Smoking Bun?, Anton, 13:55:24, 6/17/2000, (#18) Try this -, v_p, 14:00:59, 6/17/2000, (#19) I have one of, Ribaldone, 15:46:33, 6/17/2000, (#20) Hmmmm, lee2, 15:50:41, 6/17/2000, (#21) I give up -, v_p, 16:13:38, 6/17/2000, (#22) Bathroom Appliances, straykat2, 18:06:55, 6/17/2000, (#24) what's where?, Seashell, 18:46:40, 6/17/2000, (#25) Showerhead Pics, v_p, 20:18:32, 6/17/2000, (#29) Bathroom Pictures, straykat2, 19:32:03, 6/17/2000, (#26) v_p, Ribaldone, 19:39:23, 6/17/2000, (#27) ACCESS DENIED, straykat2, 19:44:15, 6/17/2000, (#28) Straykat, v_p, 20:20:10, 6/17/2000, (#30) Thanks v_p, straykat2, 21:00:29, 6/17/2000, (#31) Neck and Hose, canadiana, 21:32:18, 6/17/2000, (#32) ...the detachable showerhead might make sense because..., Dunvegan, 22:47:56, 6/17/2000, (#33) showerheads - gottem, shana, 00:42:43, 6/18/2000, (#34) showerhead, nana2, 03:35:24, 6/18/2000, (#35) Chrome Shower Head, straykat2, 08:07:20, 6/18/2000, (#38) Straykat, frankg, 09:16:39, 6/18/2000, (#39) frankg, v_p, 10:06:45, 6/18/2000, (#40) Maybe Patsy, Househazard, 08:01:33, 6/18/2000, (#37) If the showerhead was the weapon..., darby, 10:15:24, 6/18/2000, (#41) You know..., darby, 10:36:14, 6/18/2000, (#43) darby, v_p, 10:25:36, 6/18/2000, (#42) LOL v_p, darby, 10:38:04, 6/18/2000, (#44) ................................................................... "Showerhead Discussion" Posted by Paralegal on 10:27:46 6/17/2000 Thought I'd start this thread from the Hellhole info discussion so we can keep the issues separate. Anyone with info on the use of the showerhead from PR's or JB's bathroom, please post here! [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Transfer from "hellhole" thread" Posted by v_p on 10:33:21 6/17/2000 59. "BATH: 8 " Posted by v_p on 10:14:45 6/17/2000 And PR couldn't take a shower that morning, why? I think she said her shower was broken. Isn't her bathroom where she usually bathed JonBenet - I think I read that somewhere. What was wrong with her shower? Something broken? Showerhead maybe? V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Images to Ponder" Posted by v_p on 10:51:04 6/17/2000 Would any of these do the sort of damage that was done to JonBenet's skull? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "v_p" Posted by Greenleaf on 10:54:48 6/17/2000 They all look pretty harmless to me. LOL! Try again. I really want to see them. GL [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Pulling my most from Hellhole thread" Posted by darby on 10:59:12 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:59:12, 6/17/2000 LOL, make that "post" Very interesting. Also, one could picture an angry parent showering JBR off after a bedwetting incident. But to use the shower head as a weapon? Would it have to be flung, like a whiplash, in order to cause that massive headblow? Also, how heavy was the removable shower head? And did the shape of the head wound match the shower head's shape? Would there have been a way to tell if the shower had recently been used? I also wonder if MM is correct that JBR's sheets were dry and that she could not have wet on other sheets that were subsequently laundered because fibers from her clothing were found on the dry sheets on her bed. In any event, I certainly hope the shower head is in the evidence pile and not still in the Hellhole. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Greenie?" Posted by v_p on 11:10:17 6/17/2000 Are you saying all you can see are little boxes with "x's" in them?? Darn it. I can see them. K, I'm putting my email on here - Greenie, email me so I can send the pics to you and you can put them up. They are pretty interesting. Thanks, V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL v_p ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "I can see it.." Posted by 1000Sparks on 11:12:44 6/17/2000 I've got a shower head with a long cable-like thing in my main bath/tub area. It's great for rinsing off after a bath and it's great for bathing the dogs. I could do a "number" on someone with that showerhead and also strangle someone with that cable. Just a thought. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "OOOOOHHH!" Posted by Paralegal on 12:15:13 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:15:13, 6/17/2000 Now there's a thought worth many hours of analysis, Sparks. According to the maid, JB's "abuse sessions" at the hands of PR were carried out in JB's bathroom, not in PR's. I'm trying to imagine PR hosing down JB after a midnight bedwetting in PR's bathroom, which is in the master bedroom. There they are having a big blow up in the shower with JR melatoninly sleeping in bed. PR flips out at JB's "rebellion", wraps the hose to the showerhead around her little neck to control her. When JB goes limp and unconscious, PR whacks her a good one in the head with the showerhead, still in a rage and misinterpreting JB's limp rag posture as maybe faking it. PR's rage spent, she "comes to" realizing what she's done, JR hears the commotion, arouses from his drug-induced zone and the cover up begins. Interesting angle... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Paralegal" Posted by frankg on 13:00:20 6/17/2000 >> "According to the maid, JB's 'abuse sessions' at the hands of PR were carried out in JB's bathroom, not in PR's." Wow, does that sound sinister. But if I'm not mistaking, LHP's comment was based on something her daughter told her. I believe what her daughter saw, on one occasion, was Patsy taking JonBenet into the bathroom and closing the door. She heard or saw nothing and apparently JonBenet emerged unchanged. I find it amazing how something as innocent as this, with the *help* of a tabloid, has morphed into "abuse sessions". [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "If I'm Not Mistaken..." Posted by Paralegal on 17:20:14 6/17/2000 twas the maid herself that characterized PR's bathroom behaviors toward her daughter as abusive in nature, frank. Don't shoot the messenger, k? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Paralegal" Posted by frankg on 07:05:56 6/18/2000 I believe your mistaken, but I never intended to shoot the messenger. I blamed the tabloid for this and I still feel that's where blame belongs. You just bought into it. From a post by Docg on the original LHP thread concerning the bathroom abuse comment; >> This statement was seriously qualified in today's Peter Boyles show. Apparently this is based only on what LHP's daughter said about Patsy being upset with JBR and taking her into the bathroom. If the child had wetting problems, then it makes a lot of sense that some sort of disciplinary activity would be centered in the bathroom. But we don't even know if any sort of discipline took place -- just that someone observed them going there. VERY feeble. Only the editor of a Tab could take that sort of thing seriously. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "shower head" Posted by Seashell on 12:07:41 6/17/2000 How long was the cable part? I would think that it would have to be twirled somewhat like a lariat and then bashed into her head - even then, I seriously wonder if it would cause that much damage. stray kat, we've had lots of people here with "inside info" so why wouldn't this have come out sooner? MM, before he changed, told me many times that she DID NOT wet the bed that night. Was he being purposefully mislead? What IS intriguing about this theory is the rumor(?) that Patsy said her shower was broken. Now then, I would think Patsy showered in her bedroom/dressing room, and not JBR's room. So if this story has ANY legs at all, and the broken shower and murder are connected, that could mean that JBR was punished in JR's and PR's bedroom. So what was she doing in their bedroom? And if PR is the perp, how could JR have calmly slept thru his child being murdered a few feet away? Maybe PR didn't shower becuz she couldn't stand the thought of stepping into ANY shower (if she killed her there) and maybe that's why she never changes her clothes! OK, I'm a little off here. I feel quite sure that forum members, well meaning, are being fed what RST wants us to believe - that Patsy killed JBR over bedwetting - MW has disappeared into the background along with the FW allegations; we started talking AGAIN about incest and what do you know? Now we've got PR killing JBR with a showerhead. I don't like the timing of this. My take is that the RST spin becomes more preposterous every time incest is discussed. And it always comes back to PR/bedwetting becuz that's NOT what happened. JMO. Oh PR may have whacked her alright, but not over bedwetting! Table leg missing!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "There's a dot missing..." Posted by Ginja on 12:49:52 6/17/2000 ...the sex/incest dot. That's got to tie in, otherwise, the scenario is invalid. This is where Thomas' scenario dies...he left out that dot! The police took a lot of evidence out of the third floor bedroom, so there may be more to this that we don't know. Maybe John was cya by saying he took his pill and went to bed. People (liars) will usually try to stick as closely to their actual whereabouts and whatnot so as not to get too confused with their stories. Sooooo....yea, he was in his bedroom alright, but was he sleeping? This could be an opening for that missing dot! JBR's bladder was empty which is what's led to the 'bedwetting' rage scenarios. I've read reports where it's believed she emptied her bladder within 10-15 minutes of death. So the timeline's really cut short here. Either Patsy just "happened" to walk in on JBR just as she peed the bed, or, JBR could have been awakened (if she wasn't already) and led by the hand to the bathroom. Another possible scenario that would bring in the sex dot, but again, another tight timeline, is that everyone was off doing their own thing, with JR in JBR's room with her. He finishes and goes up to his room. Patsy's not far behind that scenario when she comes in to check on JBR. Maybe JBR's already in the bathroom and Patsy walks in on her, or she's still in bed and Patsy takes her into the bathroom for the night's last run. In either case, Patsy catches JBR disheveled, or maybe there's blood...whatever, something alarms her to the fact that JR was there. Furious, she drags JBR up to the third floor and confronts the old man, with JBR unfortunately getting caught in the middle of the ensuing chaos. Aside from you know who from you know where, is there any another poster who's been inside the house? If not, with the house on the market, perhaps a local could get an inside tour. I'm not concerned with the layout, but rather the appliances in the bathroom. Was the showerhead in Patsy's bath or JBR's? It would sure help to get those pix posted. The one's posted look pretty much harmless to me, too! LOL What kinds of injuries can be effected depends on different variables, whether the head was plastic or metal, it's size and weight, the type of hose, etc. JonBenet could have tried to make a run for it and Patsy thought she was Dale Evans...Murphy's Law she connected just right. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "remember Carol M's interview" Posted by Edie Pratt on 12:28:32 6/17/2000 w/Rams in their mansion? PR made a comment about hating shower curtains. Something about not being able to see who's hiding behind it, and that maybe she's seen "too many movies". I don't recall CM asking her about the bathroom, but PR must have had a reason to mention her fears. I hope she shudders every time she needs to use the commode,lol. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Well Sea" Posted by Paralegal on 12:24:29 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:24:29, 6/17/2000 I think this is just a possible angle to the case that needs to be explored. That's all, no willful misdirection by lurking bad guys. I have always leaned heavily in my analysis of the events that incest, an MW scenario and several perps was really the way it went down. But ALL that could have taken place, then PR took JB upstairs to clean her up in the shower. Maybe the garotting/strangulation took place in the basement and JB's limp body was carried upstairs for the clean up of the crime scene. But let's all remember that the little bathroom down in the basement was literally torn to shreds by police where significant yet unreleased DNA evidence has been found. Remember my post a couple weeks ago about this evidence? Caused a slight stir so I don't want to wander down that road again. But the showerhead thingie is interesting. And here's another reason in my mind why. If you and I had a broken shower, it would probably stay that way until we had the money to call a plumber or whatever. PR is not like us, i.e., a normal person with normal means. I guarantee if something around that house was less than perfect, i.e., creating such an enormous imposition on PR, she'd get it fixed immediately no matter the cost. Here is a woman so vain and self-absorbed with a broken shower? Sounds like just more bullchit to me! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Let's just say" Posted by v_p on 12:40:21 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:40:21, 6/17/2000 the showerhead is the murder weapon. A lot of times the murder weapon is kept secret in case some nut-case decides to confess for the noteriety. Sitting on my patio smoking a cigarette theory: JBR wet herself in the car on the way home. Patsy is pissed and totally seething by the time they get to the house. She doesn't "carry" her up the stairs, she drags her kicking and yelling to the bathroom. PR grabs her by her turtleneck and tries to hold JBR still while she hoses her down with the retractable showerhead. JBR is twisting and trying to get away - PR pulls and turns the turtleck harder, choking JBR, she hits her on the head with the showerhead. If you could see the pics I posted, some of them look pretty solid. This would explain the turtleneck lying on the bathroom counter - was it still damp? It would also explain why she was wiped down. It would not explain, however, how her long-johns were urine soaked, or, why JR would cover. Unless he believed it to be an accident. O.K., finished with my cigarette :-) V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Hiding in the shower" Posted by sabrina on 12:37:31 6/17/2000 Edie, thanks for bringing that up. I forgot about that very wierd comment. The woman's daughter was brutally murdered and garrotted in her home, yet she reverts her fears back to a scene from Psycho, the movie. I guess she is really is stage struck and in awe of Hollywood. Patsy, is that why you used things from a few movies when you composed the ransom note? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. ""X"" Posted by lee2 on 12:38:13 6/17/2000 marks the spot! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "those pictures" Posted by ibnora on 12:49:51 6/17/2000 you need to upload them to a website or you need to place a link to their original location. You can see them because they are linked to your hard drive. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Cigarette Analysis" Posted by Ginja on 13:10:40 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:10:40, 6/17/2000 Gee, v_p, I like your scenario, except now it's missing two dots: sex and pineapple! :-( Nerve-wracking, ain't it? :-) Back to the showerhead, some of the hoses are made of a light metal or hard plastic, especially where the showehead attaches to the cord, in order to support the weight of the head. If this showerhead had a similar hose, it would support a firmer grip, and whack, by the perp. And depending on the angle on what makes contact, it could account for the fracture going linear. Edited to add something Paralegal mentioned to my "analysis" while this cigarette's still burning. (Spank me later for breaking down and smoking again!) Way way back in the beginning there was talk about JBR being bathed after the assault. That may have been due to the stories she had been washed, I'm not sure of its origins, though. I think the problem here is that the fibers were found on her body. I understand it could have been due to wiping her dry. But the luminol light flouresced around her genitals and tops of legs. I'm not so sure that evidence would have survived a shower or bath. Oh, something someone else asked about was the urine in the underwear. This pretty much looks like residual urine released at death. Okay, now my cigarette's done! I guess that ends this smoking analysis :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "The Smoking Bun?" Posted by Anton on 13:55:24 6/17/2000 As long as folks are spending time in the shower smoking cigarettes, I'll toss in a lighter . . . Say "somebody" is upset with JonBenét while "something" is being done in the shower, nefarious or otherwise (though it seems most likely nefarious, given this family's penchant for screwing each other one way or another). Say JonBenét scrambles about, flailing arms and whatever else can be flailed, while the "somebody" doing the showering flails in an effort to stop JonBenét from flailing. Arms and other appendages get tangled in a shower curtain, the showerhead cable (damn near said "cord"; electric showerhead, there's an idea). "Somebody" slips on wet porcelain, grabs whatever can be grabbed and pulls the shower curtain off the rod. The rod pulls loose from the holders -- perhaps the two people tangled up and falling together. The rod is thus pulled down very hard, attached to the (probably tearing) curtain, curtain holders snapping like starter pistol shots. The rod falls at a rapid rate of speed, yanked by two bodies with a combined weight of perhaps 160 to 200 pounds. The rod whacks into JonBenét, catching her behind the right ear. One of the curtain rod hooks (plastic) mashes against the skull with this tremendous force. Now there are two people lumped together, wrapped in the shower curtain and showerhead cable. One of whom is severely injured and perhaps choked lifeless by whatever got wrapped around her throat (turtleneck, showerhead cable, shower curtain). Back to some dotting of the ayes. Suppose this happens after a "somebody" catches another "somebody" being overly-friendly with JonBenét, which occurred after a "come-here-little-girl-let's-have-fun" snack of pineapple. My sketchpad gets pretty messy at that point, but I can still sort of see the image. Anybody else see it? Anton [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Try this -" Posted by v_p on 14:16:19 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:16:19, 6/17/2000 http://i7.yimg.com/7/ca462eaf/g/52b0ab8a.jpg http://i7.yimg.com/7/ca462eaf/g/a25ae9fc.jpg http://i7.yimg.com/7/ca462eaf/g/cdbc77f8.jpg http://i7.yimg.com/7/ca462eaf/g/ac4cc435.jpg Ginja - yeah, well, ummm, o.k., she grabbed the pineapple on the way up. I never said it was perfect. Maybe she had had one of those Dole pineapple convenience pack thingies on the way home. As for the sexual abuse - perhaps PR was hitting her on her privates while showering her. Anyway, these showerheads look pretty sturdy. And, what was up with that psycho shower remark PR made. Please let me know if these pics work. BTW - Ginja, you feeling better? edited because I suck! V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "I have one of" Posted by Ribaldone on 15:47:16 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:47:16, 6/17/2000 those metal shower heads with a metal cable (approx. 4 1/2 - 5 ft long). Mine looks most similar to the last one you posted and it is pretty sturdy and probably could do some damage if struck with it or stranged by the cable. This a very interesting line of thought. I think it deserves more exploration. 1000Sparks, did you have any idea what kind of "sparks" your casual comment was going to set off? Or were you considering the showerhead as the murder weapon when you made the comment? Either way, good job. Carry on. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Hmmmm" Posted by lee2 on 15:50:41 6/17/2000 "Sex and the Pineapple" Do I smell a new series? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "I give up -" Posted by v_p on 16:23:33 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:23:33, 6/17/2000 O.K., I officially give up. Ribaldone, the only reason you can see the showerhead pics is because you are a member of my club - which is where I posted them to get a URL. *#*&*^$*#^$)*^$(*#&^ is all I have left to say about this. If someone has a web page they can post these to, email me and I'll send them to you to post. I think they are worth a look. Otherwise, you'll have to join my club. :o) Sorry about all the posts - gonna have to get HTML for dummies. :o( V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Bathroom Appliances" Posted by straykat2 on 18:06:55 6/17/2000 I just returned from work and noticed some questions about the shower head. I don't know any further information other than what I have shared here. I do not know details about the make and model of the shower head. Dang! I wish I had thought to ask, but I didn't have time to think about it. The shower head in question (according to my source) was in the bathroom in which Patsy "typically" bathed JonBenet after bedwetting incidents, and the blow to the head was probably not premeditated. I was also told that there was indeed a bedwetting incident that preceded the blow to the head. Other than that, I don't know further details. :( Regarding the marketing of 755 15th St., if anyone knows who the listing agent is, please post it. I will have someone call the listing agent and set an appointment for me to view the inside of the house (and checkout those bathroom appliances). By the way, I drove by the property recently and didn't see a "for sale" sign. As to why this information about the shower head was not revealed before now, I don't know what to tell you other than this is my first knowledge of it as well. I even thought perhaps some of you here at JW had already discussed it. I am quite sure there is more evidence that "authorities" have not yet revealed. Keep in mind the problems between the police and DA and the withholding of information that occured as a result, and that there are internal investigations currently being conducted involving the police and metro area DAs. There is still hope for justice for JonBenet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "what's where?" Posted by Seashell on 18:46:40 6/17/2000 Well, if she bathed her in the same place, I would assume that would be JBR's bedroom, right? Are we sure her bath had a shower? Was there also a tub? IF she wet the bed that night, I would guess it may have been during or just after being molested. Do children ever wet during an assault in order to fend off their assailants? For a moment, let's say she did and her attacker was so angry, he hit her in the head with something. Why is this scenario less likely than the PR rage one? Men can kill in a rage as easily as women - maybe more easily and more frequently. Maybe a Ramsey male bopped her when she wet him while he was molesting her. Maybe the bedwetting scenario is correct, but ST has the wrong sex perp! All those keys that are supposedly out are held in Burke's clenched fist. He knows. Someone mentioned that PR started fighting with JBR right after getting home. Burke and JR were still up so I would think they would have heard the commotion. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Showerhead Pics" Posted by v_p on 20:18:32 6/17/2000 NO, for real - I had help. Thanks Twinkle. This should work: http://www.geocities.com/tictac5000/index.html V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Bathroom Pictures" Posted by straykat2 on 19:32:03 6/17/2000 Seashell, I agree with you that Burke knows what happened in that house that night. Good question about the bath tub. It seems to me that I saw a drawing or a photo of the bathroom and that there is a tub, but I'm not sure. Has anyone here seen pictures of the inside of the hellhole? Maybe there are photos in the archives that show the bathroom and the shower head. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "v_p" Posted by Ribaldone on 19:39:23 6/17/2000 I couldn't see the first set of photos you posted (the little square boxes), but I could see the pix on the links you posted second. Sorry I can't help, but I'm pretty clueless about posting photos. I only know how to do links. My tech resume is not too impressive. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "ACCESS DENIED" Posted by straykat2 on 19:47:25 6/17/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:47:25, 6/17/2000 When I clicked on those links I received a message that said, "ACCESS DENIED". Edited to read, "ACCESS FORBIDDEN TO OUTSIDE HOSTS". [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Straykat" Posted by v_p on 20:20:10 6/17/2000 See post #29. :) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Thanks v_p" Posted by straykat2 on 21:00:29 6/17/2000 Great photos! That type of shower head could do some real damage. I wish we had a photo of the the actual bathroom showing the shower head that may have killed JB. All I can find are diagrams of the house. At least the diagrams indicate that there is a bath tub in JonBenet's bathroom. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Neck and Hose" Posted by canadiana on 21:32:18 6/17/2000 The hose on some detatchable showerhead models is metal and ribbed. Mine has a plastic covering over the hose, but one I had some time ago was ribbed. Did JB have marks in a pattern on her neck? Anyone know? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "...the detachable showerhead might make sense because..." Posted by Dunvegan on 22:47:56 6/17/2000 Since Patsy dyed JonBenet's hair on a regular basis, a showerhead on a hose is a good way to rinse coloring out of hair. This sort of thought feeds into the Patsy was dying JonBenet's hair Christmas night. Perhaps JonBenet fought the hair dying...perhaps her slightly earlier statement about "I'm not pretty," was in response to resisting the hair dying, and being told she wouldn't be pretty--or win any contests--with her natural color. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "showerheads - gottem" Posted by shana on 00:42:43 6/18/2000 Yes, the bedwetting and hair bleaching scenarios come into play when considering a handheld showerhead as the weapon. I think the BPD knows, but IMO for purposes of discussion... Some handhelds look like metal but are in fact plastic. The high-end ones are heavy, some because of the size of the head (try 8 spray controls at waterpik.com). I think the issue here has to do with the leverage one could attain using a hose (or whatever, a strap on a Maglite containing 3 D batteries would be much the same). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "showerhead" Posted by nana2 on 03:35:24 6/18/2000 Is there anything to suggest a pattern, perhaps with a curved appearance to her skull fracture. I would think that anything plastic, hitting her head hard enough to cause a fracture would damage the plastic unit on the showerhead, if so, was the showerhead, or anything from the bathroom removed as evidence on the search warrant. I use a detatchable unit with cable hose and would find it really difficult to do anything like grab and strangle a small child. Clean the bathtub, water the plants, wash the dog and perhaps as a comedienne once said, things that God never meant one to do with a shower, did she mean kill JonBenet? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Chrome Shower Head" Posted by straykat2 on 08:07:20 6/18/2000 Many handheld shower heads are made of chrome. The chrome shower heads are more expensive than the plastic ones, but money was no issue for the Ramseys so my guess is they bought the best. A shower head on a hose makes sense for rincing the bottom half of a child who has wet or defecated on herself. Also, it is convenient to have a variety of pressure settings on the shower head in order to clean the more soiled areas (as in defection). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Straykat" Posted by frankg on 09:16:39 6/18/2000 The chrome ones are the plastic ones with a chrome covering. Doesn't make them any harder or heavier. This doesn't mean there aren't some specialty manufacturers out there that actually make them out of chrome plated brass or some such, but I would think that highly unlikely. IMO, it's possible a shower massage showerhead was the source of the head wound, but unlikely. They lack mass and the handle is to short to grasp and then still leave an 8" wound. You would have to grasp the hose and swing the thing, but that's where the lack of mass tends to make it unlikely. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "frankg" Posted by v_p on 10:06:45 6/18/2000 I was at Wallmart and Home Depot yesterday and held some of the showerheads, (store guys thought I was some sort of perv or theif, I'm sure, lol). Anyway, there are some with short handles and there are some with long handles....some are very sturdy and heavy and some are not. There are some, the more expensive ones, that are heavy, long handled and the hose looked to be up to 5'. I'm doubting PR bought her's, if indeed she owned one, at Wally World, she may have even special ordered it. I keep thinking about the showerhead theory and one thing keeps coming to mind. ST's theory. His entire book was well written, well thought out - always, IMO, there was follow through - except with his theory. Why insist it happened in the bathroom? Does he know something we don't. Someone on here said that we don't have all the facts, and I believe that to be true. I think when ST looked at PR and said, "I think you're good for it, Patsy," he knew more than he has said. Staykat - please tell us the source for the showerhead comment. V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Maybe Patsy" Posted by Househazard on 08:01:33 6/18/2000 fed JB the pineapple as a bribe to let her dye her hair. Maybe they were in the bathroom getting ready to do it, and JB was resisting and trying to put it off by saying she was hungry. Then Patsy said something like "Okay. You can have a snack and then will you cooperate and let me do this?" Of course, JB would agree because she was able to postpone what she hated. So she ate the pineapple and when they got back upstairs, JB was complaining again about something else and trying to find more excuses not to have it done. And perhaps, Patsy knew about John molesting JB (maybe she found out very recently) and JB may have said something like "Daddy thinks I'm pretty just the way I am" and that set Patsy off. I would venture to guess that if John was molesting JB, he was trying hard to drive a wedge between Patsy and her daughter. See, he gets to molest her, but at the same time is her ally against her mother who wants her to be perfect. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "If the showerhead was the weapon..." Posted by darby on 10:15:24 6/18/2000 Couldn't we say that an intruder theory is out the window if the showerhead was used to cause the headblow? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "You know..." Posted by darby on 10:36:14 6/18/2000 If the showerhead was the murder weapon, would there be any way to know for sure? BTW--Does anyone happen to know whether JBR's hair was in three ponytails when she was over at the Whites' house? Honestly, I can't imagine Patsy or most anyone fashioning a little girl's hair that way unless it was very curly and unruly. JonBenet's hair was long and silky, and seemed to always be well-styled, especially when she was "on display." If JonBenet was not sporting three ponytails at the Whites' party, then why waste even a minute on the intruder theory? Are we to believe that an intruder grabbed JBR, carried her over to her bathroom, put her into the bathtub, whacked her on the head with the shower head, and then grabbed three elastic bands and styled her hair? Or... Maybe Patsy was showering a soiled JBR off and hit her over the head with the shower head. Then Patsy might have put her hair into three pony tails...but why? Or... Maybe Patsy was in the process of bleaching JBR's hair, in which case maybe the hair would be sectioned off into three parts. Maybe JBR balked, spilled bleach on herself, and an angry Patsy put her into the shower to wash everything off. In any event, the showerhead and possibly the three ponytails do not work very well with any intruder theory. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "darby" Posted by v_p on 10:25:36 6/18/2000 >Couldn't we say that an intruder theory >is out the window if the >showerhead was used to cause the >headblow? Well, the intruder could have had it in his kidnapper/pedophile/terrorist back-pack. V. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "LOL v_p" Posted by darby on 10:38:04 6/18/2000 And he also had carried elastic hair ties, brushes and combs. This intruder WAS resourceful, wouldn't you say? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]