Justice Watch Discussion Board "Spirit of Cooperation" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Spirit of Cooperation, ericasf, 10:17:29, 7/20/2000 Ericasf, momo, 10:35:23, 7/20/2000, (#1) Next, Ruthee, 10:41:18, 7/20/2000, (#2) Thank you, Seeker, 10:58:23, 7/20/2000, (#3) Bedtime, mary99, 11:43:10, 7/20/2000, (#5) More, Sylvia, 11:36:05, 7/20/2000, (#4) Sooo many changes..., zoomama, 12:12:59, 7/20/2000, (#6) Here's a fact,, gaiabetsy, 12:38:29, 7/20/2000, (#7) OK now we're cooking! , Seeker, 12:41:51, 7/20/2000, (#8) I'm Impressed!!!, shadow, 12:55:10, 7/20/2000, (#9) Shadow,, ericasf, 13:04:53, 7/20/2000, (#10) are we going to write a book Erica, Sylvia, 13:43:25, 7/20/2000, (#11) FACT=, Edie Pratt, 16:29:06, 7/20/2000, (#12) More Facts, momo, 16:55:33, 7/20/2000, (#13) Momo, zoomama, 17:19:57, 7/20/2000, (#14) let's get wasted, honey, mary99, 17:30:53, 7/20/2000, (#15) Okay, I'll play . . ., Ribaldone, 17:40:24, 7/20/2000, (#16) Biggest FACT of all, Ribaldone, 17:41:27, 7/20/2000, (#17) Okay,, filomena, 18:57:12, 7/20/2000, (#18) Strangest Fact to me, canadiana, 21:06:03, 7/20/2000, (#19) Canadiana, momo, 03:32:17, 7/21/2000, (#20) An interesting fact, Twitch, 05:53:05, 7/21/2000, (#22) Nedra, ericasf, 05:46:44, 7/21/2000, (#21) Twitch, Eraicasf, momo, 07:04:33, 7/21/2000, (#23) Facts>>, ayelean, 08:41:37, 7/21/2000, (#24) Interesting fact, Seeker, 15:48:27, 7/21/2000, (#31) Facts, Sylvia, 12:29:55, 7/21/2000, (#25) More..., Ribaldone, 13:03:35, 7/21/2000, (#26) More...., mee too, 13:42:02, 7/21/2000, (#28) fact>>, ayelean, 13:35:09, 7/21/2000, (#27) Forgiveness...., mee too, 13:50:57, 7/21/2000, (#30) ayelean,, gaiabetsy, 13:48:30, 7/21/2000, (#29) Large size panties, MJenn, 17:38:27, 7/21/2000, (#32) Evidence, ericasf, 14:19:58, 7/24/2000, (#33) tape is confusing, Erica, Edie Pratt, 14:27:55, 7/24/2000, (#34) anyone, ericasf, 07:00:21, 7/26/2000, (#35) ................................................................... "Spirit of Cooperation" Posted by ericasf on 10:21:48 7/20/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:21:48, 7/20/2000 Ok. I started it. Just to get it going. Facts only for the moment, right Seeker? I'll start with the first fact. JonBenet was killed on December 25th. There was a 3 page ransom note written. It asked for a ransom of $118,000. Was "written" by a small foreign faction. JonBenet died from strangulation and blunt force trauma to the head. JonBenet had been seen on several different occasions by her pediatrician, Dr. Beuff, for vaginal infections/irritations. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Ericasf" Posted by momo on 10:35:23 7/20/2000 Here's a fact. JonBenet's hymen was 3/4 corroded. It was practically nonexistent. This fact, I believe, is the most important part of the case. It gets the wheels turning on why she was probably murdered. This is a fact that can not be ignored. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Next" Posted by Ruthee on 10:41:18 7/20/2000 The Ramseys tell us four people returned to that house Christmas night. Three people awoke. One was dead. John Ramsey said he carried JonBenet to her bedroom. Burke Ramsey reported that JonBenet walked up the stairs herself. Susan Stine said she saw the entire family alive after they left the White dinner. John and Patsy Ramsey said they arrived home at ten p.m.. Just before the Thomas book came out they changed the time that they arrived home to nine p.m.. Patsy Ramsey says that JonBenet did not eat pineapple at the White dinner. A bowl with pineapple residue was found on the Ramsey table the next morning. Patsy Ramsey said JonBenet did not eat pineapple after she arrived home that evening. Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints were found on the bowl. JonBenet's prints were not found on the bowl. Patsy Ramsey said she found the note on the back stairs. It's her word alone. Patsy Ramsey said she didn't bathe the morning of the 26th. John Ramsey and Patsy Ramsey said John took a shower. Patsy Ramsey made the 911 call to the police regarding finding the kidnapping note. What did I miss during this time frame? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Thank you" Posted by Seeker on 10:58:23 7/20/2000 Erica for getting this thread started! Good job! Ruthee, not that I can see. But don't you feel like something is "missing"? You know what I mean? I'll be back later. Need to look at notes, etc in the file. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Bedtime" Posted by mary99 on 11:49:04 7/20/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:49:04, 7/20/2000 JR helped Burke with a model and then he 'read a book.' PR removed JonBenet's shoes and tucked her into bed with her clothes still on. PR said prayers with JonBenet even though JB was asleep. PR says JonBenet went to bed wearing a red turtleneck. The red turtleneck was found in a twisted ball in the sink near JB's bedroom. The draperies over JonBenet's headboard were mussed up. There was a large bottle of lotion next to JonBenet's bed. Hairties or weaving loom loops were scattered. (edited to keep future events out) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "More" Posted by Sylvia on 11:36:05 7/20/2000 John Ramsey states to be the last one to have seen JonBenét alive at 10 PM when he read her a story. Later changed it in reading a book himself. Patsy Ramsey states to be the last one to have seen JonBenét alive at 10 PM. Patsy Ramsey states JonBenét was wearing the red turtle-neck shirt, which was found in the sink. The ransom note had only one fingerprint on it that was from the lab examiner who examined the ransom note. Patsy Ramsey states she saw John Ramsey run down the stair and found him with the ransom note in the front hall, how did it get there. John Ramsey states in a video taped police interview Patsey Ramsey came to the landing of the second floor and handed him the ransom note. John Ramsey states under oath in the deposition dated 20 September 1998 that there has been no heated argument with Fleet White after the burial. Can go on forever like this. Sylvia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Sooo many changes..." Posted by zoomama on 12:12:59 7/20/2000 in the stories by both J and PR. JR told JAR that he discovered the body at 11. This was backed up by the friend of JAR Stewart Long who came with them to Colorado. Dozens of keys had been given to guests, friends, workers. At the beginning police were told that only two people had keys LHP and JAR. These two items are my favorites from ST book. They are only the tip of the iceberg however with the changing of stories. Great thread, Ericasf. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Here's a fact," Posted by gaiabetsy on 12:38:29 7/20/2000 my hymen was almost completely eroded when I was 6. Sound familiar? My mother bathed me and seemed to want to "scrape away my genitals" with great determination - every night. Then my brother was another factor. I slept with him every night (not enough bedrooms). He manually "broke what was left of my hymen" and masturbated. Get it? There could certainly be (and probably is in a family like this) more than one reason this JBR was ruined, destroyed, and killed. I think she took a lot of secrets with her. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "OK now we're cooking! " Posted by Seeker on 12:41:51 7/20/2000 Mary, future events are welcomed. The flashlight on the counter was wiped clean, even the batteries. Fleet White checks room (wine cellar) and sees nothing (too dark?) John Ramsey amost immediatley goes to the room his daughter's body is in, looks inside (dark, dark) room and "sees" her before turning on the light. JonBenet found with her "favorite" nigthgown by her and with "her" blanket. John Ramsey calls his private pilot within 40 minutes of "finding" his daughter's body, to leave the state. Many changes in their stories, inconsitancies as pertains to the events of previous evening. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "I'm Impressed!!!" Posted by shadow on 12:55:10 7/20/2000 So far, I'm impressed with the info and tone of this thread. Being the pesimistic person I am, I expected disagreements by now. :-) BTW, another thread with the changes/inconsistencies in the Ramsey (and other case figures) stories would be very interesting! Game, anyone? shadow [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Shadow," Posted by ericasf on 13:04:53 7/20/2000 Great idea. why don't we list the mounting inconsistencies of the Ramseys and anyone else involved in the case for that matter....... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "are we going to write a book Erica" Posted by Sylvia on 13:43:25 7/20/2000 Because I bet you there is enough to feel at least trilogy :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "FACT=" Posted by Edie Pratt on 16:29:06 7/20/2000 nobody responded when 10 AM came and went without a call from the "kidnappers". FACT = the Ramseys were the only ones NOT to give input about the note. FACT = Patsy was coherent enough to design a funeral chappeau. FACT = the Ramseys were coherent enough to go on tv, the DAY AFTER THE FUNERAL. FACT = the Ramseys suck. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "More Facts" Posted by momo on 16:55:33 7/20/2000 Fact-There WAS a heated argument between John and Fleet. Fact-Patsy DID NOT have stage four cancer. Fact-The BPD let CAP take crucial evidence from the hellhole. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Momo" Posted by zoomama on 17:19:57 7/20/2000 of all the weird things that occured in this case your last one there with CAP removing all that stuff while the BPD watched is one of weirest I think. I also think that perhaps cord, duct tape and who know what else went out with that stuff. ST describes in his book how packed the car really was. I shake my head at that one every time I see it. Good point. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "let's get wasted, honey" Posted by mary99 on 17:30:53 7/20/2000 JR had a few drinks, bourbon I think it was, to calm his frazzled nerves PR had Dr. Boef shoot her up with some strong stuff so she could prepare herself for the most important performance of her life The BPD decided since both parents were under the influence there was no point in taking a formal statement from them since it would be inadmissible in court by virtue of their intoxication [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Okay, I'll play . . ." Posted by Ribaldone on 17:40:24 7/20/2000 FACT = Patsy didn't budge when John yelled that he had found JonBenet. FACT = All the ransom note utensils belonged to Patsy. FACT = Patsy wore the same outfit as the night before. FACT = Burke heard voices during the night/early morning hours. FACT = Burke was awake when the 911 call was made. FACT = John handed the (ransom) notepad to the cops. FACT = John and Patsy are liars. They have made several inconsistent statements. I like the idea of an "inconsistency" thread. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Biggest FACT of all" Posted by Ribaldone on 17:41:49 7/20/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 17:41:49, 7/20/2000 JonBenet had been sexually abused prior to her murder! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Okay," Posted by filomena on 18:57:12 7/20/2000 Fact-the Rams left their dead 6 year old badly beaten and sexually assaulted child under the Christmas tree, and got on with there lives. Fact- They allowed their other 9 year old child out of their sight just after discovering their daughter had been kidnapped. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Strangest Fact to me" Posted by canadiana on 21:06:03 7/20/2000 The strangest thing I ever heard came from Burke and JonBenet's mother herself. She stated, and JR agreed, that they DID NOT WAKE BURKE upon finding their little girl missing and a ransom note. What?? Nedra: stated gentlemen called her to tell her of JBR's 'kidnapping'. PR and her mother are close; you mean to tell me you would not call your mother when your beloved daughter is missing!! Nedra: stated that JBR was 'somewhat molested'. What?? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Canadiana" Posted by momo on 03:32:17 7/21/2000 That comment from Nedra about JonBenet being "somewhat" molested gets my blood boiling. What a piece of work that whole family is. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "An interesting fact" Posted by Twitch on 06:17:15 7/21/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 06:17:15, 7/21/2000 we've all heard and posted by Ruthee is that John supposedly took a shower and Patsy did not. If this is a true fact, was he washing away evidence or guilt? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Nedra" Posted by ericasf on 05:46:44 7/21/2000 Where did that comment come from? ST's book? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Twitch, Eraicasf" Posted by momo on 07:04:33 7/21/2000 Good observation Twitch, But I also wonder why Patsy did not change clothes. Ericasf, I think it was St's book. I will skim through later and let you know. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Facts>>" Posted by ayelean on 08:41:37 7/21/2000 FACT: Nedra tok care of the Ramsey family when Patsy was recovering from her questionable CA. FACT: Grandpa Paugh left Boulder on a stand by flight on Christmas Eve. FACT: the Ramseys had a party on the 23rd, and we have never gotten a complete list of the guests that were present. FACT: a 911 call was made during the time of the party on the 23rd. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Interesting fact" Posted by Seeker on 15:48:27 7/21/2000 John (up on the 3rd floor) could hear Patsy's scream, but Burke (on the 2nd floor) couldn't? The scream was loud enough to carry up to the third floor and into John's bathroom, but not loud enough to wake Burke???? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Facts" Posted by Sylvia on 12:29:55 7/21/2000 Fact: They never cooperated with the police however did start a media campaigne by going on CNN, Jan 97. Fact: Date of death on headstone is 25/12/96 while official papers say 26/12/96. Fact: Nedra Paugh says "We say, you will do it". when ask about fact that JonBenét might someday not be willing to do pageants. Fact: John Ramsey later states in present of two friends, "I am so sorry". My question what are you sorry about? Fact: After funeral the minister asks Steve Thomas if he needs a lawyer. What for? Fact: On the writing pads from which the ransom not originate were found only 7 finger prints, 5 of them belonged to Patsy Ramsey, 1 to the police sergeant who took the notepad to the station and 1 from the lab examiner who examined the writing pad. Sylvia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "More..." Posted by Ribaldone on 13:03:35 7/21/2000 FACT = Took the Ramseys 4 months to submit to police questions. FACT = Took the Ramseys 18 months to turn over the clothes they were wearing the night. FACT = Officer French saw Patsy peering thru splayed fingers the morning of the 26th. FACT = Patsy and John had little contact with each other the morning of the 26th. No communication. FACT = Patsy contanimated JonBenet's body (but not the duct tape!) by doing her Lazarus routine. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "More...." Posted by mee too on 13:42:02 7/21/2000 Patsy denied owning size 12/14 panties.... (JonBenet was reportly found in above size) Later it would be discovered Patsy did indeed buy the Larger size panties at Bloomingdale..... The expensive bronze headed golf putter (belonging to JR) was found outdoors under the juniper bushes... I believe the Ramsey's at first denied the Red Swiss army knife found on the cabnet in the basement belonged to Burke (please correct if I'm mistaken) Vomit residue found on the carpet upstairs near the door going down to the basement...Later we would hear JR mention Patsy got sick and vomited...... A blanket with semen belonging to JAR was found in a suitcase in the basement.... Bradd Millnard (sp?) (the friend of JARs who was with him in Atlanta... gave JAR along with the reported ATM photo his airtight alibi) claims he had sleep in JBR's bed while in Boulder.....(while JBR was not at home..?).... ....(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "fact>>" Posted by ayelean on 13:35:09 7/21/2000 FACT: When Patsy left the hellhole on the afternoon of 12/26/96 she covered her face/head. FACT: Patsy shakes her head 'yes'/'no' opposite to what she speaks. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Forgiveness...." Posted by mee too on 13:50:57 7/21/2000 after being told ALL the horrid details of how his 6year old baby sister was bruatally murdered.....John Andrew tells the cops...FORGIVENESS to the PERP...!!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "ayelean," Posted by gaiabetsy on 13:48:30 7/21/2000 You sure do read people right. Yep, Patsy is a dead giveaway. Deal is, so what? How can we corner her and make sure she fries? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Large size panties" Posted by MJenn on 17:38:27 7/21/2000 Fact: JonBenet was a bedwetter and had toilet training issues. A bag of pull-up diapers were found hanging out of the cabinet outside her bedroon the morning after she died. If a six year old child was wearing pull-up diapers, would she need large panties to wear over them, like pajama bottoms, or if she or her parent(s) was embarrassed and wanted to try and make them a little less conspicuous? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Evidence" Posted by ericasf on 14:20:25 7/24/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:20:25, 7/24/2000 Ransom note, demanding $118,000 for the safe return of JonBenet, which Patsy Ramsey said she found on a back staircase in the home. Experts have ruled out John Ramsey as the writer, but say results are inconclusive on whether it was written by Patsy Ramsey. The paper it was written on came from a tablet in the Ramsey home, and lab tests concluded a Sharpie pen found in the home was used to write it. No sign of forced entry into the home, but an apparent pry mark in the kitchen doorjamb. White cord that was wrapped around JonBenet's neck and wrist and tied to a stick. Duct tape that Ramsey said he found across his daughter's mouth. The Colorado Bureau of Investigation concluded four fibers found on the duct tape that had allegedly covered JonBenet's mouth were consistent with the jacket Patsy Ramsey wore Christmas night, according to published reports. Trace of DNA material that was unidentified was found in JonBenet's underwear and skin was found under her fingernails. Unidentified palm print found on the door to the wine cellar. Unidentified pubic hair found on blanket in which body was wrapped. Police conducted sound tests to determine if neighbors could have heard a scream from the basement of the Ramsey home. A neighbor reported hearing a scream the night JonBenet died. Remnants of a paintbrush fashioned into a garrote used to choke JonBenet were recovered just outside the boiler room. It was linked to Patsy Ramsey's art supply kit. Ramsey telephoned his pilot to prepare for a departure within hours of the discovery of JonBenet's body. The Ramseys and family friends roamed the house for several hours before JonBenet's body was found. Broken basement window, but no footprints in the snow outside the house. "Mind Hunter," a book by former FBI criminal profiler John Douglas, was found in Ramseys' bedroom. It details a case that is similar to the Ramsey slaying, including the use of duct tape and ligatures and language used in the ransom note. 911 tape had Burke's voice in background. The Ramseys initially told police he was asleep when they called. Duct tape. Autopsy found no sign of skin damage around the girl's mouth, though ripping tape off would normally cause skin marks. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "tape is confusing, Erica" Posted by Edie Pratt on 14:27:55 7/24/2000 the business about JR ripping it off her mouth, did he do that in front of FW? It's been reported that FW touched the tape, but when? I read it all before, and came away thinking that JR balled up the tape and left it in the cellar. So, when did FW handle it? Did he go back to the cellar once JB was "found"? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "anyone" Posted by ericasf on 07:00:21 7/26/2000 Have definitive answers on the tape? I think that has been a question that has been around for a long time. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE