Justice Watch Discussion Board "New Member With A New Theory" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... New Member With A New Theory, vikilynp, 06:52:24, 7/25/2000 New Theory?, 1000Sparks, 07:17:29, 7/25/2000, (#1) Oh boy..., v_p, 07:19:55, 7/25/2000, (#2) Vikilyn, Sylvia, 08:22:51, 7/25/2000, (#3) Welcome Vikilyn!, Voyager, 08:33:37, 7/25/2000, (#4) Wait, I'm Not Finished Yet, vikilynp, 09:08:38, 7/25/2000, (#5) Voyager, 1000Sparks, 09:19:51, 7/25/2000, (#6) vikilynp & 100sparks, fly, 09:34:56, 7/25/2000, (#7) Hold On, Hold On, I'm Not Done Yet !, vikilynp, 09:50:13, 7/25/2000, (#9) I wish you guys, Watching you, 09:42:09, 7/25/2000, (#8) waiting waiting, Sylvia, 09:51:49, 7/25/2000, (#10) V_P, ericasf, 11:58:43, 7/25/2000, (#13) Part 2 of The Newbie Theory, vikilynp, 11:11:33, 7/25/2000, (#12) and then what happens?, 1000Sparks, 12:08:40, 7/25/2000, (#14) ???, v_p, 12:29:52, 7/25/2000, (#15) vikilynP, starry, 03:42:22, 7/26/2000, (#30) Part 3 of Newbie Theory, vikilynp, 12:47:31, 7/25/2000, (#16) vikilynP, gaiabetsy, 13:37:29, 7/25/2000, (#17) Vikilyn, momo, 14:14:15, 7/25/2000, (#18) Thanks Momo, vikilynp, 15:44:48, 7/25/2000, (#20) Pungeant Odour.., tender.one, 03:17:15, 7/27/2000, (#65) Gaiabetsy, vikilynp, 15:43:18, 7/25/2000, (#19) Vikilyn, momo, 15:56:40, 7/25/2000, (#21) Kids,, gaiabetsy, 16:06:57, 7/25/2000, (#22) OJ, ericasf, 17:55:37, 7/25/2000, (#25) Good theory Vikilyn, Ribaldone, 17:43:09, 7/25/2000, (#23) Ribaldone,, gaiabetsy, 17:49:33, 7/25/2000, (#24) I'm sorry Gaiabetsy ~, Ribaldone, 21:28:56, 7/25/2000, (#28) could be possible....., davic, 18:49:13, 7/25/2000, (#26) Not in the mood, docg, 20:56:29, 7/25/2000, (#27) bipolar, short timer, 23:30:32, 7/25/2000, (#29) Schizoaffective Disorder, vikilynp, 06:10:24, 7/26/2000, (#32) vikilynp, Luvsa Mystery, 06:40:06, 7/26/2000, (#34) welcome vikilynp, Luvsa Mystery, 06:25:12, 7/26/2000, (#33) I'm not in the mood to accept your charity DocG, vikilynp, 05:45:44, 7/26/2000, (#31) Welcome Vikilynp,, kdubois2, 07:40:53, 7/26/2000, (#35) Kdubois, Luvsa Mystery, 07:43:27, 7/26/2000, (#36) vik, docg, 07:47:38, 7/26/2000, (#37) Luvsa Mystery,, kdubois2, 07:55:23, 7/26/2000, (#38) In A Nutshell, vikilynp, 08:09:21, 7/26/2000, (#39) vik, docg, 11:13:49, 7/26/2000, (#42) Docg, ericasf, 08:18:24, 7/26/2000, (#40) eric, docg, 11:30:36, 7/26/2000, (#43) lol docg, ericasf, 11:32:23, 7/26/2000, (#44) Kudo's to Erica, vikilynp, 12:05:04, 7/26/2000, (#47) The hair style..., DebDeb, 09:23:03, 7/26/2000, (#41) Hairstyle, docg, 11:45:47, 7/26/2000, (#45) Hair, Seeker, 12:01:41, 7/26/2000, (#46) 1 to 10 & sucks!!!, shadow, 12:07:59, 7/26/2000, (#48) Theory thread, ericasf, 12:09:49, 7/26/2000, (#49) Doctor Feelgood, docg, 12:20:13, 7/26/2000, (#50) Dr. Jacka**, ericasf, 13:07:33, 7/26/2000, (#52) Tough, docg, 13:55:38, 7/26/2000, (#54) Excuse me DocG, but now you are way out of line., vikilynp, 14:58:59, 7/26/2000, (#57) Doc, ericasf, 14:00:34, 7/26/2000, (#55) And Erica, may I add that:, vikilynp, 15:09:41, 7/26/2000, (#58) docg, darby, 12:54:12, 7/26/2000, (#51) Darby, docg, 13:45:59, 7/26/2000, (#53) Doc..., DebDeb, 14:06:19, 7/26/2000, (#56) vikilynp....., Nandee, 15:14:47, 7/26/2000, (#59) The hair bleaching, pinker, 16:42:44, 7/26/2000, (#60) Thanks ladies, docg, 18:04:50, 7/26/2000, (#61) Doc, DebDeb, 08:03:03, 7/27/2000, (#66) Vikilynp>>, ayelean, 18:43:34, 7/26/2000, (#62) Your theory, KrayonC, 19:07:38, 7/26/2000, (#63) vicilynp, pumpkin, 19:49:39, 7/26/2000, (#64) docg, pinker, 09:34:03, 7/27/2000, (#67) Yep, Pinker,, gaiabetsy, 13:51:15, 7/27/2000, (#68) ................................................................... "New Member With A New Theory" Posted by vikilynp on 06:52:24 7/25/2000 Hello All; I've been reading through the numerous posts and have to say that you guys would make a great detective team! So here is my theory: The Ramsey's went partying that night and took the kids. The kids were exhausted by the time they got back home, but, JonBenet was scheduled to do a pageant right after the new year, and Patsy wanted to make sure that JBR was in "tip top" shape before they arrived in Michigan (wouldn't want her Michigan friends to see her daughter with dark roots - unkempt). Patsy wakes JBR up when they get home (John does not carry her upstairs), and obviously JBR is fussy from being awakened. Patsy offers her some Pineapple to pacify her while she gets the hair color ready. (that's where the pineapple comes in). Then Patsy drags JBR upstairs (possibly kicking and screaming) to color her hair. She takes the red turtleneck off her to keep from getting color on it and tosses it on the sink, where it was later found. She then puts the white "long johns" shirt on her, as she knows that when she gets done with the coloring she will need to immediately put JBR to bed, as they are getting up early the next morning. While coloring her hair in JBR's bathroom, JBR gets unruley and fussy and screaming at her mom that she doesn't want to get her hair colored (this would be the reason for a)the neighbor hearing a scream, and b)JBR's unusual hairstyle that was found on her after her death). In the midst of mother and daughter arguement, Patsy looses it and grabs JBR around the collar of the shirt, bringing it around her neck, and this is her way of holding her still. She's behind JBR while she's coloring her hair, so she doesn't see that JBR is losing consiousness. When she finally lets go (in a rough, pushing manner I believe) after getting all the color in, JBR drops to the floor, and hits her head on the toilet. She rolls over onto her back, and Patsy can't get a pulse. Not knowing how to do this properly, Patsy tries and tries to get a pulse, but can't. Here is where she totally "freaks out". She has now figured that she has killed her daughter. By accident of course, but her hubby has already lost one daughter, and he would kill Patsy if he found out that she's taken another one of his daughters. Patsy figures that the best thing to do is put her in the wine cellar until she can figure out a plan, but it is cold down there, so she takes with her, JBR's favorite blanket, etc. She puts JBR in the cellar, goes back upstairs and begins to write the ransom note. She starts once, realizes that addressing it to both Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey doesn't sound right, so she starts on the note again. Meanwhile, upstairs John has already gotten in bed, and has fallen asleep, but then awakens 3 or so hours later, and wonders why Patsy is not in bed. He sleepily wonders down the back stairwell, and surprises Patsy in the kitchen while she is standing there holding the note. This is the reason the note is on the floor, not on the stair rungs as Patsy has stated to police. She lies to John, tells him that she woke up to check on the kids, but that JBR is not in her room. She tells him that she has quickly gotten dressed, and is on her way out the door to look for her. John tells her no, to call the police, but then Patsy says to him that they can't call the police, it says so in the ransom note. John rushes upstairs to get dressed, as he is going to go outside and look for JBR with her. When he comes back downstairs, he reads the note again, and realizes that something is "fishy". He confronts Patsy and demands to know where JBR is. Patsy breaks down to John, confesses what she has done, and they both go to the wine cellar where JBR is. Have to go to work now - more of my theory to come.......... Again, glad to be here ! [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "New Theory?" Posted by 1000Sparks on 07:17:29 7/25/2000 ? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Oh boy..." Posted by v_p on 07:19:55 7/25/2000 this is where the helmet comes in handy :P [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Vikilyn" Posted by Sylvia on 08:22:51 7/25/2000 Oeps, you know I disagree a little with you, to me Johnboy is in it too. Take care Sylvia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Welcome Vikilyn!" Posted by Voyager on 08:33:37 7/25/2000 Sparky, are you bothering the newbies again?! Let's listen for a while...ya never know when something new might be put forth....I know, I know, it would be hard to think of anything new (theory)in this whole wide world that we haven't hashed and rehashed, but let's listen anyway just in case..... Carry On Vikilyn! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Wait, I'm Not Finished Yet" Posted by vikilynp on 09:08:38 7/25/2000 Hold tight Sylvia, I'm just getting started! John's full involvement is coming shortly! :) vikilynP [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Voyager" Posted by 1000Sparks on 09:19:51 7/25/2000 Now would I try to hamper anyone trying to solve this case? If this newbie mentions suicide or Burke I may have to use some strong words. Hey Viking.... instead of the whole thing... why don't you just tell us what is different between yours and the other 8.5 million theories. Thank you very much. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "vikilynp & 100sparks" Posted by fly on 09:34:56 7/25/2000 vikilynp - Sparky is just yankin' your chain. Can't blame you for not knowing just about every possible permutation of the characters and case elements have been suggested several times through the years - even down to aliens and druid sacrifices, and suicide as 1000sparks noted. 1000sparks - LOL, you ought to let her enjoy her newbie hat for a day or so before putting dents in it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Hold On, Hold On, I'm Not Done Yet !" Posted by vikilynp on 09:50:13 7/25/2000 Don't worry about me, I can deal with individuals putting down my theories (they are mad cause they didn't think of it first!) LOL :) just kiddin. I may be wearing the "newbie" hat in here, but I've been posting with most of these gals on the Yahoo Boards for a while, so I'm used to it. Fire Away! PS. - Stay Tuned for the rest of my theory. Have to go back to work now.............. vikilynP Thanks again everyone for all the warm welcome's! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "I wish you guys" Posted by Watching you on 09:42:09 7/25/2000 would quit picking on sparkles. Her chickens' peckers all got grease on them, and she's having a hard day. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "waiting waiting" Posted by Sylvia on 09:51:49 7/25/2000 Go for it :) Sylvia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "V_P" Posted by ericasf on 11:58:43 7/25/2000 I guess we didn't prepare vikilyn better! :-) (as I pass her a hard hat) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Part 2 of The Newbie Theory" Posted by vikilynp on 11:11:33 7/25/2000 Once JR gets to the wine cellar JBR is dead. He checks for a pulse, and yes, she is dead. Now he has a quick decision to make: 1) Do I turn Patsy in and get rid of this fat piece of ch-- that's been draggin me down, or: 2) Do I hang on to her because she has something on me (not sure what, maybe the whole kiddie porn scenario). My theory is that Patsy has something on John. Either way, John knows that if he doesn't turn her in now, he will never be able to. In his quick indecisive haste, he decides to cover for her. His first thought is, "How do we make it look like someone has broken in and taken our little girl"? Then he decides to break the window in the train room (I don't buy his story of breaking it in the summertime, as most people who park their cars in their garage as he always did, usually shut the garage door behind you with the opener that is kept in the car, you then get out of the car and enter your house through the connecting garage doorway). After smashing the window to make it look like a burgler has entered, he then goes back to JBR again to decide what to do next. The whole time I'm sure Patsy is wringing her hands and pacing the floor........... AND BURKE IS STILL SLEEPING - WHAT TO DO ABOUT BURKE?.................... By this time it is about 5:00am, and they have to hurry now and figure out what to do, as they are supposed to catch an early flight to Michigan. JR decides to put JBR's body in the trunk of the car, which is parked in the garage, for now, so that it will look like a kidnapping when the cops arrive. His excuse for getting the body back out of the car and disposing of it would be (once they are at the airport he would act like he forgot something, leave quickly, go dump the body and then come back. His excuse to police would be that he wants to get his family on this plane and out of harms way). This is the reason that the police or Fleet did not see the body during the first initial sweep of the house. THEY DIDN'T CHECK THE GARAGE OR THE CAR TRUNK !!! After calling the police, they immediately start calling friends because they need to: 1) Mess up any evidence they've left behind 2) Comfort Patsy and keep her from blabbing 3) Get so many people in there that things get uncontrollable. 4) They need someone to take Burke out of the house 5) John can then sneak JBR through the garage entrance, through the dumb-waiter area, back down to the wine cellar if he has to (remember the time which he was unaccounted for? When he said he went out to get the mail? Supposedly thinking that the kidnapper may have put a note in the mailbox with further instructions? Bologna!) I opt for #5. After the police arrive, and all the friends arrive, and he sees Fleet searching around the house, he realizes that he will never be able to get Patsy and Burke, and the body in the trunk out of there and to the airport, so, he waits until everyone, police included, are gathered in the dining room/sunroom area, Patsy is keeping them occupied with her "fake distraughtness", he then sneaks into the garage, gets the body, and sneaks JBR's body down to the wine cellar. He then sneaks back upstairs, through the dumb-waiter area, grab's YESTERDAY'S mail off the kitchen counter, and walks into the dining/sun room area as though he's just come in from checking the mailbox. All the while, no one has seen what he has just done, remember, it's a really huge house................and not enough police there to watch everybody.......... Detective Linda Arndt realizes that John is getting restless, so she sends him and Fleet on another search of the house. She tells them to search the house from top to bottom, yet John starts from the bottom instead of the top. While Fleet is in the train room looking at the broken window, John figures: "This is my best opportunity to open this door, switch the light on, and give a fake wail of pain at what I've found". Fleet immediately runs around the corner to see...................... More of my theory to come, but I have to get back to work for now.................. vikilynP [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "and then what happens?" Posted by 1000Sparks on 12:08:40 7/25/2000 Some people are wet between the ears. Some actually have floods. Don't know if I can sleep tonight awaiting the rest of this. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "???" Posted by v_p on 12:29:52 7/25/2000 Greasy peckers? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "vikilynP" Posted by starry on 03:42:22 7/26/2000 Didn't the BPD examine the cars for evidence? I thought they did. If so, JonBenét's DNA, would most likely be in the trunk where it shouldn't be. Also, how would JR explain going to Michigan while his daughter was kidnapped by a small foreign faction? Wouldn't it be a tad too out of line to continue on with your vacation plans after calling the cops and telling them that your daughter has been kidnapped? Your theory, like mine, has holes. Of course we don't have all the evidence which makes it harder to piece things together accurately. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Part 3 of Newbie Theory" Posted by vikilynp on 12:47:31 7/25/2000 The body is carried back upstairs and John immediately throws a blanket over her to disturb any evidence left behind. Then Patsy comes wailing into the room, throws herself ontop of JBR to leave behind more DNA to cover up any evidence. 8 or so hours later, the body is taken to the morgue. THE ACT ITSELF IS FAIRLY SIMPLE, IT'S THE CONTINUAL COVER-UP LATER THAT GETS DIFFICULT. Now John realizes that he has to keep Patsy's mouth shut so she doesn't slip, so he calls the only doctor that he knows will come right away with drugs - JBR's pediatrician. Enough drugs to knock Patsy on her fat a--, if that's what it takes. In the mean time, he and Pat's are too distraught to talk to police. This gives John enough time to make sure that he and Patsy get their stories straight, and so that sister Pam can get into the house, and take away any incriminating evidence they may have left behind. I believe the leftover duct-tape and cord were hidden in the golf bag by John, and that's why he needed to get that golf bag out of there in the dead of winter. And as for the passports - remember, he had his own pilot (and was a pilot himself), and enough money to rent/buy a speedier jet to get them out of the country if he needed to. This "We are too distraught to talk to the police" excuse also gave them enough time to put their "dream team" together. AS WE ALL KNOW - THE STORY OF THE BPD HOLDING THE BODY RANSOM - I BELIEVE THAT, AND SO THE SAGA CONTINUES........ Once they've gotten the body back from the BPD, and A couple days after the funeral was held, they decide to go on CNN. John gets into an arguement over this with Fleet. Fleet believes that they need to stay away from the press and only work with the BPD. Now why would Fleet give a rats butt, unless he is afraid of the publicity that this will bring to his "supposed friend", and Boulder neighborhood in general? Because he knows that Mystery Woman is out there with a story about him. I believe that is all that Fleet is concerned about, and I don't believe that Fleet had anything to do with JBR's murder. Why else would Fleet be so pressing to John about working with the BPD? Certainly he would not do that had he been sexually molesting his good friend's daughter. AND SO THE STORY CONTINUES, ALL THE INTERVIEWS AND TALK SHOWS - This is the Ramsey's way of diverting attention from themselves and on to others - "hold your babies close to you", and, "there is a killer on the loose", and "Mr. Sketch Man". AND THAT IS TOTAL BS about them not hiring the psychic, they needed the psychic to get the picture so they could use it as another diversion. THE POLYGRAPHS. Sure they hire their own specialists. So What? Here's the deal. John was telling the truth when he said he didn't kill JBR. John was telling the truth when he said he didn't have anything to do with her murder. John was not telling the truth when he said he didn't know who did, and that he wasn't covering up for anyone. As for Patsy. Patsy, I believe is Bi-Polar Schizofrenic (sp). Bi-Polar schizo's have a way of "stepping outside of themselves" when the need arises, or they feel they are being threatened. Patsy was able to do this, time and time again, during her polygraphs. Burke's polygraph. Burke was able to pass because he was asleep while the death and the cover up took place. I don't care how smart this 9 year old is, there is no way he can pass a polygraph unless he truely knows nothing...... AND SO THE SAGA CONTINUES................. Now this is what really gets me. That they can go on the 700 Club, swear their innocence, and ask Joe Public to pray for them. I wish Scott would have asked Patsy, point blank "PLACE YOUR HAND ON THIS BIBLE, AND SWEAR BEFORE GOD AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT YOU DID NOT KILL JONBENET RAMSEY". Then he should have turned to John and made him swear the same, and also swear that he's not covering for Patsy. If they are the true, church going Christians that they say they are...Well I don't believe they or at least Patsy could have sworn on a bible without choking. IMO Whew, I'm tired now. vikilynP [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "vikilynP" Posted by gaiabetsy on 13:37:29 7/25/2000 Well, I agree with you on some points, but certainly not all. One question only: Don't you think the police could determine if chemicals had been used on JB's hair that night? I used to dye my hair and let me tell you, for awhile I could smell and tell it. Also, the dye would probably appear different on the hair shaft, if newly applied. Sorry, not dye - no bleach. Actually, that ought to be a slam-dunk. That's all for now. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Vikilyn" Posted by momo on 14:14:15 7/25/2000 I can certainly agree with you on the "bleaching" of the hair so that no one in Michigan would know that JonBenet's hair was colored. What a perfect night to color her hair. This is something I have considered over the past several weeks. And if you'll remember, one of the case books said that there was a strong, pungent odor in the bathroom. Welcome. You are officially a newbie. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Thanks Momo" Posted by vikilynp on 15:44:48 7/25/2000 Yup, I remember the report on the pungeant smell. What do you think about the whole Bi-Polar, being outside of yourself theory during Patsy's polygraph? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "Pungeant Odour.." Posted by tender.one on 03:17:15 7/27/2000 You know, hair dyes made by different companies have very different odours. Some even smell like very strong....urine?? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Gaiabetsy" Posted by vikilynp on 15:43:18 7/25/2000 Who says they did or didn't test for chemicals. And as for the smell, I too have been known to "tint" a little here and there, and there are colors out there these days that smell no different than regular shampoo....... vikilynP [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Vikilyn" Posted by momo on 15:56:40 7/25/2000 I don't know how outside of herself Patsy was seeing how the first two tests were inconclusive. After three and a half years of answering questions that were about the same as what was asked on the polygraph, I'd say "Practice makes perfect!" I don't give any credence to their polygraphs. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Kids," Posted by gaiabetsy on 16:06:57 7/25/2000 can't we all agree, at least at some juncture, there is no way to discern the truth about who did what to whom? Let's face it. These guys were too good at a time when the police was terribly inadequate. Shades of OJ? I guess so. By the way, I caught some stuff or other about OJ trying to broker an appearance on "the view". Frankly, I know no more than what I'm saying except OJ was kicked off the show. I'm so glad he proved himself unworthy of that kind of scrutiny. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "OJ" Posted by ericasf on 17:55:37 7/25/2000 Speaking of OJ, anyone see him on the Today show? HE'S SUCH AN ARSSS! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Good theory Vikilyn" Posted by Ribaldone on 17:43:09 7/25/2000 and you SHOULD be tired. That took some thought and lots of typing. I think the hair bleaching scenario seems as plausible as any other, it would go a long way to explaining how her hair got to be into those strange looking ponytails. However, since I've started Hodges' new book (about 1/2 through it now), I'm back to the "Patsy caught John molesting JonBenet" scenario. He really makes soom good points and is very convincing to me. I've bounced back and forth in the past (always in the Patsy did it camp, just not sure how she did it), but now I think I'm hooked. You did a good job with your theory and don't take any of the "critiques" too hard. Personally, I think alot of us are just frustrated and generally pissed off that this case is still sitting idle while Hunter and the boys just sit around playing with themselves. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Ribaldone," Posted by gaiabetsy on 17:49:33 7/25/2000 Well, I'm just a little bit mad at you. So you would do more than discredit me when it comes to allowing the real answer to surface? All I can say is NORTHERN EXPOSURE certainly displays my distinct personality. And, believe me, I've spent all my life trying to make sure my imprint is made on this earth. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "I'm sorry Gaiabetsy ~" Posted by Ribaldone on 21:28:56 7/25/2000 "Well, I'm just a little bit mad at you. So you would do more than discredit me when it comes to allowing the real answer to surface?" I don't get it. Can you clarify? I didn't mean to make you mad and I don't know how I did. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "could be possible....." Posted by davic on 18:49:13 7/25/2000 May be one piece of evidence that the BPD is holding. (hair dye) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL davic ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Not in the mood" Posted by docg on 20:56:29 7/25/2000 to be charitable tonite. Sorry. The newbie theory is what one might expect of a newbie. Basically pretty unoriginal. Also, as with most theories of this case, not particularly believable. And totally unfocused. IMO too much TV viewing has really had an extremely deliterious effect on the ability of Americans to think clearly about what the real world is like. People in the real world do not do the sort of things that have been attributed to the Ramseys on this forum and elsewhere, including much of the speculative literature on this case. Which is why the case is going nowhere. Too much TV/Tabloid induced fantasy, not enough critical thinking. IYKWIM. :-) The one interesting thing here is the bit about the hair. Our newbie may not have much of a theory, but DOES show a certain amount of promise. WHY was JBR's hair done up the way it was? Does anyone know what the Ramseys have claimed regarding this? Was her hair done up in those braids all day on Xmas? And if not, then when exactly was the braiding done? Are the Ramsey's claiming her hairdo was different last time they saw her? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "bipolar" Posted by short timer on 23:30:32 7/25/2000 Vikilynp, when you say bipolar schizophrenic, are you talking about schizo affective? There is not a bone in my body that will ever believe PR has any symptoms of schizophrenia. I would be more likely to say she is dissociative and possibly highly dissociative at times. If I were forced to label her, I would say DID. That's just an armchair diagnosis though. I didn't realize Burke also had a polygraph. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Schizoaffective Disorder" Posted by vikilynp on 06:10:24 7/26/2000 Schizoaffective Disorder is much more difficult to diagnose than Schizophrenic Disorder v. Affective Disorder, but obviously falls right in between these 2 diagnoses. There has also been a suggestion that schizoaffective disorder is simply a more severe form of affective disorder; a third type of psychosis or a variation of schizophrenia . I don't know how much stock I put in this, but if you watched the 700 Club Interview, you would have seen Patsy state that she has never lost her temper. She was very relaxed and eager to get her 2 cents worth in. But then on the LKL Interview, when she was face-to-face with Steve Thomas, she was ready to act the role of Pitbull. Her surroundings could have made the difference in these 2 comparisons, one interview being in a studio (not her home turf), the other being in her home (home turf). I don't think there was much variation in the questions that were asked, so I don't think that made a difference. I see a pattern forming here that shows during one interview, she is able to step outside of herself (or maybe this is her true self) and be pitbull Patsy. In the other interview she steps outside again and is Angel Patsy. And every other interview she has done, in my opinion, she has shown a different side of herself. And last but not least, (and most people will make a joke about this), all of the times when she says that she doesn't remember? Another sign of Bipolar disorder is the misplacement of memory. Maybe she really doesn't remember, because she had stepped outside of her norm when she should be remembering everything that happened that day, that night, and the following morning. vikilynP [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "vikilynp" Posted by Luvsa Mystery on 06:40:06 7/26/2000 I read somewhere that Patsy's youngest sister said that she had never, ever seen Pr lose her temper. How odd, I thought, the whole world has seen her seething on international TV. If it were true (that Polly never witnessed Patsy lose her temper) it seems pretty weird to me. But then, I suppose it depends on one's definition of "losing one's temper." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "welcome vikilynp" Posted by Luvsa Mystery on 06:25:12 7/26/2000 I'm with Short Timer, I don't believe Burke had a poly. I've never been a big fan of the hair-coloring motive since I'm fairly certain the BPD would know if JB had her hair colored that night and that, if so, ST would have opted for that senerio rather than the bedwetting one. Otherwise it's just as feasible as any other theory I suppose. :) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "I'm not in the mood to accept your charity DocG" Posted by vikilynp on 05:45:44 7/26/2000 I'm sure my theory is no less believable than yours. As for the hairdo being there all day, appearantly you've not done your research - if you had then you would have seen her Christmas pics from earlier that day, and noted that in all of the photos, her hair was down. Pics do not lie, so that is fact that I'm stating here. :) vikilynP [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Welcome Vikilynp," Posted by kdubois2 on 07:40:53 7/26/2000 Just a couple of things i want to mention. I thought that the Rams had a mail slot in their door, not a mailbox. I that is the case i don't think he could use the excuse of going out to get the mail to the police.{ they were dumb but not that dumb} I think that Patsy's behavior comes from how she was raised. Look what a over bearing mother she has. There is an old saying , if you want to see how your wife will be twenty years from now, look at her mother. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Kdubois" Posted by Luvsa Mystery on 07:43:27 7/26/2000 Very wise old saying. :) Funny, isn't it how we hear so little about PR's father? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "vik" Posted by docg on 07:47:38 7/26/2000 >I'm sure my theory is no less >believable than yours. That's not really the point. The point is that you do not have a theory at all, period. All you have is a scenario. You've taken various aspects of the case and dreamed up a scenario that will fit all of them. That is not a theory. A meaningful theory must be based on an analysis of the case and an encounter with the very real contradictions and apparent absurdities. A real theory must be an attempt to account for all those things about the case that are problematic. A real theory must be the result of a *thinking through* of such difficulties, something you don't bother with at all. All you account for is some pieces of "evidence" and some speculations. There have been literally hundreds of such scenarios, each as worthless as the last. As for >the hairdo being there all day, >appearantly you've not done your research >- if you had then you >would have seen her Christmas pics >from earlier that day, and noted >that in all of the photos, >her hair was down. Pics >do not lie, so that is >fact that I'm stating here. >:) We've never seen the photos taken at the White's that evening. So we have no way of knowing whether her hair was done up in braids for that occasion (though I can't think why it would be). We also don't know (or do we?) what the Ramseys have had to say about the state of her hair. That's something someone on this forum hopefully can help us with. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Luvsa Mystery," Posted by kdubois2 on 07:55:23 7/26/2000 I think the reason we dont hear about PR"s father is because he is the same kind of father as JR. They were not around very much. I can understand why, when they both married nutcases. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "In A Nutshell" Posted by vikilynp on 08:09:21 7/26/2000 My theory is that Patsy snapped while coloring JBR's hair. She inadvertantly killed JBR without realizing it, and then had to move on to cover it up. WHAT PART OF THAT DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? Now you seem to indicate that your theory is flawless, so let's hear it. Or, if you've already posted it here, please be so kind as to direct me to it. vikilynP [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "vik" Posted by docg on 11:13:49 7/26/2000 >My theory is that Patsy snapped while >coloring JBR's hair. She inadvertantly >killed JBR without realizing it, and >then had to move on to >cover it up. WHAT PART >OF THAT DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? What I don't understand is why this is a theory and not a "just-so" story. Read your Kipling and you'll get my point. You know: "How the Leopard Got His Spots" -- and like that. You're certainly not alone. Very sadly, Steve Thomas' theory is also of that ilk. As are most of the so-called "theories" we see on these forums. Now >you seem to indicate that your >theory is flawless, so let's hear >it. It's not flawless. It's just a theory backed up by a fairly thorough analysis of some of the real puzzles behind this case. And it is an attempt to understand the case in terms of reasonable human psychology -- meaning there is no place in my theory for John Ramsey deciding he has to cover for the wife (or son) who has just killed his child, the apple of his eye. Someone might have snapped that night, but to suggest that both of them went totally off their rocker into LaLa Land is absurd. I have no idea whether or not the crime actually played out the way I suggest it could have. But it's a good example of what a logical analysis of the case looks like. Or, if you've already >posted it here, please be so >kind as to direct me to >it.vikilynP Here it is: http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/jbramsey/theories/html/doc_g.html DocG [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Docg" Posted by ericasf on 08:18:24 7/26/2000 I think that you are trying to pick a fight where there really isn't one. The majority of theories are based on compilations of facts and scenarios. I think I posted the scientific formula of theories before. I'll post it again........ [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "eric" Posted by docg on 11:30:36 7/26/2000 As I just posted to vik, IMO most theories of this case are "just so" stories. They "account for" some variety of things that are known to have or assumed to have happened. But they lack the slightest degree of critical thinking, AKA logical analysis. And invariably they conveniently ignore aspects of the case that don't fit the "theory". [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "lol docg" Posted by ericasf on 11:32:23 7/26/2000 It's Erica. thanks! And as far as logical analysis, seeing that vikilyn is a professional in the psych field, i would probably hazard to guess that she knows all about logical analysis.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Kudo's to Erica" Posted by vikilynp on 12:14:17 7/26/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:14:17, 7/26/2000 Right on Erica. The only problem right now is that I happen to have a real job, and currently do not have the time to sit and read a book. I'm sure of one thing, very soon I will take the time to print and review DocG's book, and reach some very logical conclusions of my own regarding his theory, and will reply in kind, piece by piece, bit by bit, just as Doc has done with mine. I owe him that much. vikilynP [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "The hair style..." Posted by DebDeb on 09:25:36 7/26/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 09:25:36, 7/26/2000 DocG~As the mother of two daughters I will say, the hairstyle just is not all that much of a mystery to me. I do my girls hair like that all the time, it's a fairly common style. You pull the top part of the hair back and secure it with a ponytail holder. You then take that ponytail and the remainding hair and secure it with another ponytail holder closer to the neckline. So I don't find that all too odd. What WOULD make it odd is if we knew that JB's hair was not in that style at the Whites or should I say didn't leave the Whites with that hairstyle. THEN the question should come in, how or why did it get like that. So, IF JonBenet was found with a different hairstyle then what she had worn/left Christmas night at the Whites, then I think VickilynP's thought about Patsy wanting to touch up JB's hair after getting home and it resulting in a struggle between the two could be plausible. Unfortunately, I see no way for us to get an answer to that question. Leaving it now as pure speculation. VickilynP~No beef or anything but please be careful that what you state as FACT is actually a fact. Wrong information spreads like wildfire around here. As far as I know, the only pictures we have seen of JB on Christmas were taken very early in the morning, it didn't appear as though they had gotten ready to go out yet. In those pictures yes, her hair was down. That does not prove that her hair was down all day and night too. Unless we have a statement from someone at the Whites, the Ramseys themselves or a picture from the Whites showing that her hair was down we don't know anything about her hair that night. The only fact we have about her hair is what the autopsy reported. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "Hairstyle" Posted by docg on 11:45:47 7/26/2000 Thanks, Deb, for your first-hand account of how the hairstyle is done. Let me ask you this: is there any way JonBenet could have done her hair this way on her own? >So, IF JonBenet was found with a >different hairstyle then what she had >worn/left Christmas night at the Whites, >then I think VickilynP's thought about >Patsy wanting to touch up JB's >hair after getting home and it >resulting in a struggle between the >two could be plausible. Unfortunately, I >see no way for us to >get an answer to that question. Well, the (medium) short answer is, no it's not plausible. Because they were planning on getting up very early the next morning and it's awfully hard to see why Patsy would want to get involved in such a procedure at that particular time (late!). It's also awfully hard to see how one would "accidently" both strangle AND club ones daughter as a consequence of doing her hair. And also hard to see why anyone would then go on to cover this up with a "garotte" AND sexual molestation AND hand written note, all with hubby's approval and collaboration. SHEESH! The hair coloring scenario accounts for only one small aspect of the motive. All the rest is unaccounted for. NOT a theory. This does NOT mean, however, that the question of how her hair got braided that way is not important. How on Earth did her hair get that way? Would her mother have wanted to do it that way for the party? Unlikely, I'd think. Not exactly a glamorous hairstyle for a Little Miss Colorado to wear to a Xmas party. Possibly the braids were done by one of JonBenet's girl friends at the party. I haven't read all of the Ramsey book. Do they mention this at all? Has this ever come up in any of the interviews? Does anyone know if the Ramseys have explained this? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Hair" Posted by Seeker on 12:02:48 7/26/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:02:48, 7/26/2000 If JonBenet's hair was done that way at the Whites or not is irrelevant. Patsy may have done her hair that way when she "put her to bed" as a matter of routine, to keep her hair from becoming more tangled, and just not mentioned it. Or it could have been done that way at the Whites. We just don't know. Did they (investigators) ever determine what the "pungent odor" was? Not that I ever heard. It could have been a dirty pull up for all we know. They've never disclosed what the odor was, or where it came from, or even what it smelled like. Do we know who's "case book" this info was in? The thing that really bothers me is how did her head sustain an 8 1/2 inch fracture without lacerating the skin (if she was struck by something with a protrusion as has been argued, why did it not break the skin, or at least bruise the skull at point of impact?) That's why I've always believed her head struck something, not the other way around. Vikilynp, your scenario is pretty good, but I don't buy the dying of the hair idea. Sorry. Like mine, it needs work...No flaming intended. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "1 to 10 & sucks!!!" Posted by shadow on 12:07:59 7/26/2000 My theory is well-thought-out and logical while yours sucks - Maybe we could have a "THEORY" thread where everyone posts his/her theory - at least three pages allowed. Then we could all judge them and hold up signs with 1 to 10 on them like in Olympic Diving (we could also have a "sucks" sign to hold up). BTW, vikilynp - your theory is as good as any other presented here, all of which have holes, and better than some. shadow [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Theory thread" Posted by ericasf on 12:09:49 7/26/2000 that sounds promising...... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Doctor Feelgood" Posted by docg on 12:20:13 7/26/2000 I am NOT! If you want to feel good about yourself, post somewhere else. I'm getting bored and annoyed at all the feeble thinking going on here. This is not a garden party, folks. It's dead serious. We should be here to learn, NOT flatter one another. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "Dr. Jacka**" Posted by ericasf on 13:51:36 7/26/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:51:36, 7/26/2000 You seem to be being.... I don't get it..... Is it so hard for people to be courteous to one another? If you don't want to hear newbies talk, then get out of the thread, for pete's sake. Don't join in the conversation if we are pissing you off. I have come off kind of brash and that was not my intentions but everyone is trying to get along except for a few individuals and all because the latest newbie interjected her thoughts and theories. It's silly. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "Tough" Posted by docg on 13:55:38 7/26/2000 It's called "tough love," erica. Sometimes that's the ONLY way to shake someone up enough to make a difference. You wouldn't want Vik to have to spend the rest of her/his life not knowing the difference between a theory and a "just-so" story, now would you? That would be too cruel! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "Excuse me DocG, but now you are way out of line." Posted by vikilynp on 14:58:59 7/26/2000 >It's called "tough love," erica. Sometimes that's the ONLY way to shake someone up enough to make a difference.< We are not children here, and I certainly AM NOT asking nor do I need anything from you, least of all tough love. >You wouldn't want Vik to have to spend the rest of her/his life not knowing the difference between a theory and a "just-so" story, now would you? That would be too cruel!< I've spent the better part of my life psychoanalyzing minds that are much more complex than your own, almost 15 years to be exact, and I can assure you, I've spent many days and many nights dealing with the theories behind what causes the perplexities of the mind. As I stated before, when I find the time, I will print your theory, and critique it the same way you have done mine. I am absolutely certain that it needs it. BTW, I am a she, and the name is viki lyn, as in vickie lynn, NOT VIK. GOT IT?!!!!!!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "Doc" Posted by ericasf on 14:00:34 7/26/2000 I knew I was right about you the first time and that you were just WWF... (writing while frustrated) I understand but sometimes the nice little cushy comments go farther.... :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "And Erica, may I add that:" Posted by vikilynp on 15:09:41 7/26/2000 DocG has no personal stake in this case, unless of course he/she is really a Ramsey trying to throw the other under a bus. Therefore Doc, you need to lighten up FRANCES! I think I can speak for others when I say we do not want nor do we need your attitude in this forum. I might be 2 days old in here now, and may not yet have the right to say that, but as far as I'm concerned, if you don't like it, you can LEAVE. You started off with me on a sour note, and I have no intention of wasting my time in a battle with you. If you require this type of hateful attention, then I suggest you seek help - IMMEDIATELY. vickie lynn :P [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "docg" Posted by darby on 12:56:40 7/26/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:56:40, 7/26/2000 You said: 'And invariably they conveniently ignore aspects of the case that don't fit the "theory".' Some people (not me, of course) might feel that a minority of us here (read: ONE of us) ignores the consensus amongst most handwriting experts that John has been eliminated as the author of the ransom note. I guess this conclusion just doesn't fit a certain theory, so it conveniently gets ignored. :-) BTW, recently I saw jameson post that JBR was found in exactly the same hairdo she had when she was put to bed. Not that this is necessarily the final word. Maybe there are pictures of JBR that evening in which her hairdo could be verified. I think two ponytails lined up vertically is an odd style unless they are fastened together with a third band in the back and then adorned with bows or barrettes. edited to improve spelling [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "Darby" Posted by docg on 13:45:59 7/26/2000 >Some people (not me, of course) might >feel that a minority of us >here (read: ONE of us) ignores >the consensus amongst most handwriting experts >that John has been eliminated as >the author of the ransom note. >I guess this conclusion just doesn't >fit a certain theory, so it >conveniently gets ignored. :-) You've been around here long enough, Darby, to know very well this is NOT something I've ignored. I have in fact paid a tremendous amount of attention to it. So I'm glad you don't include yourself in this benighted view. :-) If you examine the history of this aspect of the case, as I have, you'll see that there are three "experts" and ONLY three who have come to that conclusion: two of these were hired by, guess who? (initials are J. R.) The third (Ubowski) is apparently the student of one of JR's experts and could well have been intimidated by that. NO other experts, as far as we know, have been given an opportunity to compare John's exemplars with those of the note. If you have better info on that, then please share. Meanwhile, please cease and desist from referring to some "consensus amongst most handwriting experts that John has been eliminated as the author of the ransom note." There are no other experts in a position to form such an opinion. >BTW, recently I saw jameson post that >JBR was found in exactly the >same hairdo she had when she >was put to bed. Not that >this is necessarily the final word. No, but this is helpful, as it is an indication of what the Ramseys are most likely putting out, storywise. Does Jameson have any thoughts on exactly when her hair was done this way? And why? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "Doc..." Posted by DebDeb on 14:06:19 7/26/2000 In response to your question ~Let me ask you this: is there any way JonBenet could have done her hair this way on her own?~ I would say yes it's possible, depends on the child. My 6yr. old daughter couldn't do it, but her cousin who is only 3 weeks older would have no problem getting her own hair into that style. On another comment you made, ~Well, the (medium) short answer is, no it's not plausible. Because they were planning on getting up very early the next morning and it's awfully hard to see why Patsy would want to get involved in such a procedure at that particular time (late!).~ Ok, I shouldn't have used the word plausible, by definition of the word, you're right it was not plausible. BUT, I will say, who knows what happened that night, none of us. Just because you think it was too late for Patsy to want to do JB's hair doesn't mean that it is then impossible for that to have happened because it just doesn't make sense to you. That same cousin of my daughters that I mentioned earlier in my post is kept up sometimes until 12am the night before an early a.m. Irish Dance recital having curlers put in her long hair so that she can then sleep on them overnight so her hair is the is a ponytail of ringlets. To me this is crazy, but to her Mom they are busy people and you have to get things when you can and appearance at her daughters recital is important to her so if they have to stay up all night doing it they will. Not trying to fight with you, just trying to show you that just because we wouldn't do something or find it odd, others may not. Everything and everybody doesn't always follow the norm and we need to keep an open mind to all that *possibly* could have happened. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "vikilynp....." Posted by Nandee on 15:14:47 7/26/2000 "Then Patsy drags JBR upstairs (possibly kicking and screaming) to color her hair." Someone on ABP.com asked Steve Thomas about this: Do you believe it is possible that Patsy was trying to dye JonBenet's hair the night of her death? This is a cumbersome, messy, often painful procedure for even adults and I wonder if JonBenet balked in some way,leading to a chin reaction of events. I have read reports that there was an odor of hair dye in JonBenet's bathroom and that might account for why her red turtleneck was found in the sink. In the last picture of JonBenet I have seen while she was alive, taken with a group of children at the White's party, JonBenet's roots are very noticable. She had a pageant coming up as well. ST: Nothing at all to indicate that . . . . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "The hair bleaching" Posted by pinker on 16:44:50 7/26/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:44:50, 7/26/2000 scenario has been a pet peeve rage theory of mine for awhile too. That hairstyle is so unusual it doesn't even have a name.... so unusual out of thousands of photographs of JBR it was not chosen for pictures. It looks uncomfortable to sleep in, and Patsy never gives mention of having undone what ever style was worn to the whites. The autopsy has blue as the color of the scrunchie/hair tie-now who believes that was the coordinating hair decoration for the outfit worn to the White's? If it was a common sleeping hair style would you expect it to have been worn the night before and been noticable in the photos from Xmas morn? edited to add-sorry docg, until you learn to differentiate between a braid and a pony tail you will be sent to the corner to wear a pointy hat. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "Thanks ladies" Posted by docg on 18:04:50 7/26/2000 OK pony tail, pony tail. For some reason I was picturing it as braids. So it wouldn't have been that hard for JBR to have done this on her own. Three pony tails. Under one another. Got the picture. Yes I think it possible Patsy could have decided to dye JBR's hair that night. You used "plausible" and I responded on that basis. Possible, NOT plausible. And because just about ANYthing is "possible" I have to pay more attention to what is "plausible." It's possible the hair dying happened, it's possible this led to a serious scrap, it's possible Patsy accidently killed her during such an episode, possible she could have decided to coverup, possible that John could have decided to back her after hearing how sweetly she uttered the words "Hey John, I killed the kid". But there about a thousand other scenarios that are equally "possible." So that doesn't get us very far. None of the above actions are IMO particularly plausible. And when we put together all 5, we reach "extremely implausible." In other words, VERY unlikely. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "Doc" Posted by DebDeb on 08:04:13 7/27/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:04:13, 7/27/2000 (Grin on my face) Agreed [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "Vikilynp>>" Posted by ayelean on 18:43:34 7/26/2000 I would have to agree with shortimer that her diagnosis would more likely to be DID. In fact, early on I stated a theory on the same site you will find Docg's about this possibility. Presently I stray from this theory though, because more and more I see signs that Patsy thought long and hard for at least 6mo prior to JBR's death about how to do the crime. In my old theory I too made the mistake of not realizing that John never went outside to get the mail. There was a mail slot on the front door and he picked the mail up from the floor in front of the door in the foyer. If I had to go back to my orignal theory I also would have named the entities with names that fit the initials of S.B.T.and C. Another part of your theory that I disagree with is: John moving the body from the garage. When you study the house plans and consider the number of people roaming around in the house that morning, it would have been impossible for him to do this. Then there is the matter of fiber transfer. Fibers of the blanket would have left a trail from trunk to dumbwaiter, and fibers from the trunk would have been on the blanket. I do think John found the body on his earlier trip to the basement but the most he could have done would have been to slide the whole package (wrapped body) closer to the door of the wine cellar. Livor mortise would have been disturbed with any other movement of the body. Welcome to the forum and especially any scooping you can do on the Rams. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "Your theory" Posted by KrayonC on 19:07:38 7/26/2000 Your theory is as good as Steve Thomas'...maybe even more convincing from my perspective. Where I have problems tho...(with not just your theory, but the "accident theory" in general) is with the time frame between wounds. Even though you've knocked your daughter unconscious...there's no blood. No reason to think you've killed her. I'd think that before Patsy "gave up", she would of called John and claimed it was an accident and asked for help. There could of only been (TOPS) 30 minutes between the head wound & the strangulation. Not enough time to 1. go through denial, 2. think up a plan, 3. find the staging tools, 4. break her hymen, & 4. strangle her. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL KrayonC ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "vicilynp" Posted by pumpkin on 19:49:39 7/26/2000 I too have believed in the hair bleaching scenario...Patsy just "lost it" while rushed into trying to make Jonbenet into the "perfect" pageant princess, while Jonbenet was starting to rebel against her mother. All this while Patsy was exhausted... However, I think it was more than an accident; Patsy had to violently cause the life-threatening injury to Jonbenet's head. Welcome! There will always be newbies to this case; 20 years from now, someone will hear about this unsolved crime for the first time, and begin their long, often-frustrating search for the truth. Jonbenet's memory will live forever thanks to all the newbies. pumpkin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "docg" Posted by pinker on 09:34:03 7/27/2000 I just wanted you to realize that with that particular hair style the 'upper' pony tail gathered the hair from the crown of her head which included the dark visable roots from the Xmas morning photographs. If a touch up bleach job where to be attempted this is the way the hair would be prepared for that process. The liquid from the toilet was gathered via the CO search warrant of 12/27/1996. Could it be the chemicals were dumped? Was that water analyzed? During the search do you suppose any sort of hair treatment supplies would have been inventoried as evidence or would they just seem to be an innocent item from a bathroom cabinet? Had the oddity of her hair color even been realized at that point? Thank you for being gracious about that snide dunce remark. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "Yep, Pinker," Posted by gaiabetsy on 13:51:15 7/27/2000 I'm with you. I think the police thoroughly searched and tested everything in JonBenet's bathroom (especially). I think if there had been any hair-bleaching and tinting going on that night, the cops (even as sloppy as they were) would have discovered it and wanted answers. By the way, I was really sick and in great pain the other night when it must have seemed I was off my rocker and trying to pick a fight with you guys. My apologies. I went to the dentist yesterday and found out I had two abcessed teeth. I'm feeling much better now. Sorry. I'm obviously a real baby when I'm sick. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE