Justice Watch Discussion Board "THE LATCH AND THE LIGHT" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... THE LATCH AND THE LIGHT, Holly, 08:55:34, 7/27/2000 The sequence from PMPT -, Holly, 09:15:16, 7/27/2000, (#1) Holly, Ruthee, 09:20:52, 7/27/2000, (#2) Ruthee., Holly, 09:37:22, 7/27/2000, (#3) Holly, tx_sunshine, 09:41:35, 7/27/2000, (#4) Holly, Ruthee, 09:50:35, 7/27/2000, (#5) Ruthee., Holly, 10:11:24, 7/27/2000, (#8) Holly, Ruthee, 10:28:58, 7/27/2000, (#15) Ruthee., Holly, 11:38:54, 7/27/2000, (#35) Holly, Ruthee, 15:14:15, 7/27/2000, (#69) alternative, fly, 09:52:14, 7/27/2000, (#6) fly., Holly, 10:15:29, 7/27/2000, (#10) One Question, Leigh, 10:24:16, 7/27/2000, (#12) Leigh., Holly, 10:25:42, 7/27/2000, (#13) A very real possibility..., Voyager, 10:30:06, 7/27/2000, (#16) You are right, Holly, 10:54:47, 7/27/2000, (#20) Yes. The latch mechanics, Holly, 10:10:19, 7/27/2000, (#7) Reasonable oddness, Rascal, 10:14:35, 7/27/2000, (#9) Wrong, rascal., Holly, 10:20:02, 7/27/2000, (#11) Also, rascal., Holly, 10:28:28, 7/27/2000, (#14) Holly, Sylvia, 10:32:08, 7/27/2000, (#17) Holly, sds, 10:43:41, 7/27/2000, (#18) silly ramsom note..., rose, 11:14:12, 7/27/2000, (#28) how soon we forget...LOLOLOL, fly, 10:58:33, 7/27/2000, (#23) Fly, Sylvia, 11:13:42, 7/27/2000, (#27) Yep., Holly, 10:55:52, 7/27/2000, (#21) Sylvia., Holly, 10:50:23, 7/27/2000, (#19) Holly, Sylvia, 10:58:17, 7/27/2000, (#22) Sylvia, Ribaldone, 11:11:37, 7/27/2000, (#26) Didn't a single friend wonder?, Ayeka, 10:49:53, 7/28/2000, (#85) Are you suggesting, Ribaldone, Holly, 11:22:34, 7/27/2000, (#31) Holly,, Ribaldone, 13:26:59, 7/27/2000, (#55) Rib, could be true as well, Sylvia, 11:16:15, 7/27/2000, (#29) more questions, Seashell, 11:05:38, 7/27/2000, (#25) opportunists, Edie Pratt, 11:52:20, 7/27/2000, (#38) Seashell., Holly, 11:24:20, 7/27/2000, (#32) Not the best pix, but, Seeker, 11:03:35, 7/27/2000, (#24) Well, Seeker, Holly, 11:19:35, 7/27/2000, (#30) What strikes me most here , fiddler, 11:24:42, 7/27/2000, (#33) One thought, fiddler., Holly, 11:30:39, 7/27/2000, (#34) Food For Thought!, shadow, 11:41:34, 7/27/2000, (#36) Leigh's observation is , Holly, 12:16:02, 7/27/2000, (#42) Shadow, Sylvia, 11:56:10, 7/27/2000, (#39) Holly and Fiddler, docg, 11:51:16, 7/27/2000, (#37) docg, Seeker, 12:18:08, 7/27/2000, (#43) latch.., rose, 12:13:13, 7/27/2000, (#41) The Latch, frankg, 12:11:43, 7/27/2000, (#40) If Fleet White , HARLEY, 12:29:40, 7/27/2000, (#45) And take a look at the pics, Harley., Holly, 13:12:27, 7/27/2000, (#48) Yes Holly, something is, Abby, 12:21:51, 7/27/2000, (#44) the latch, DebDeb, 12:45:37, 7/27/2000, (#46) DebDeb., Holly, 13:13:39, 7/27/2000, (#49) oops, DebDeb, 13:52:09, 7/27/2000, (#58) Could be...., rose, 12:48:19, 7/27/2000, (#47) Latched Door, Gemini, 13:16:13, 7/27/2000, (#50) Holly...the quote is taken from ST's book..., Twitch, 13:19:25, 7/27/2000, (#51) I did identify that the quote, Holly, 13:24:08, 7/27/2000, (#53) Yes you did, Twitch, 14:13:38, 7/27/2000, (#62) Twitch., Holly, 14:21:25, 7/27/2000, (#63) I can't see the latch, Twitch, 14:32:20, 7/27/2000, (#65) To Edie Pratt, Leigh, 14:23:49, 7/27/2000, (#64) Looking at the pics, I think I see the latch., Holly, 13:21:08, 7/27/2000, (#52) was there a dryer in the basement?, Edie Pratt, 13:24:16, 7/27/2000, (#54) Gemini, v_p, 13:43:18, 7/27/2000, (#56) Excuse me Holly, Seeker, 13:43:21, 7/27/2000, (#57) Seerker., Holly, 13:53:01, 7/27/2000, (#59) Holly, Seeker, 14:45:33, 7/27/2000, (#67) EdieP, Holly, 13:53:55, 7/27/2000, (#60) About that room and FW,, gaiabetsy, 14:12:38, 7/27/2000, (#61) Holly, Pope38, 14:33:04, 7/27/2000, (#66) Edie & Holly, Seeker, 14:50:20, 7/27/2000, (#68) FW, lake, 15:31:50, 7/27/2000, (#70) And, lake, 15:49:36, 7/27/2000, (#71) May I intercede, gaiabetsy, 16:35:11, 7/27/2000, (#72) Caught in a mess?, lake, 16:46:28, 7/27/2000, (#73) reactions, Edie Pratt, 17:23:44, 7/27/2000, (#74) Well, lake, 17:51:18, 7/27/2000, (#76) Lake, Seeker, 18:18:39, 7/27/2000, (#78) Yeh, lake, 18:59:45, 7/27/2000, (#81) Hmmm, Seeker, 17:48:33, 7/27/2000, (#75) hiding child, Matt, 18:11:16, 7/27/2000, (#77) pathetic, lake, 18:48:14, 7/27/2000, (#79) Ummm Lake?, Seeker, 18:53:38, 7/27/2000, (#80) Well, Seeker, lake, 19:02:09, 7/27/2000, (#82) Some thoughts>, ayelean, 19:51:40, 7/27/2000, (#83) shocking guests, Edie Pratt, 10:22:44, 7/28/2000, (#84) Edie, Seeker, 10:54:57, 7/28/2000, (#86) Mum's the word, Edie Pratt, 11:08:08, 7/28/2000, (#87) Good point Edie, Seeker, 11:47:48, 7/28/2000, (#88) LOL, Seeker!, Edie Pratt, 11:59:53, 7/28/2000, (#89) Edie, Seeker, 12:46:06, 7/28/2000, (#91) How many were 'armed and dangerous?', mary99, 12:42:28, 7/28/2000, (#90) silly twit, Edie Pratt, 14:01:57, 7/28/2000, (#92) Edie, v_p, 14:12:09, 7/28/2000, (#93) I don't know, V-P, Edie Pratt, 14:25:25, 7/28/2000, (#94) As long as we're questioning anything and, fiddler, 16:03:27, 7/28/2000, (#95) ................................................................... "THE LATCH AND THE LIGHT" Posted by Holly on 09:00:39 7/27/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 09:00:39, 7/27/2000 One good thing that emerged from the current examination of Fleet White's activities on 12/26, is that I began to think about that little wooden latch on the door to the windowless room. From Thomas' book - "He(Reichenbach)went down into the sprawling basement...white door secured by a block of wood that pivoted on a screw. Riechenback tried to open the door, stopped when he felt resistance." What accounts for the resistance? Supposedly the door was stuck because it had been painted. Prior to the Reichenback trip, Officer Rick French went to the basement saw the door, but was unable to open it. Supposedly he too unlatched it, then re-latched it if Reichenbach left it latched. French was thinking of finding a possible exit and knew that the kidnapper would not be able to exit through the white door and also re-latch it from the outside. Then Fleet White arrived. From Steve Thomas' book - "Fleet White stepped away from the little group attending the Ramseys and took a walk inside the house. No one had told him not to. ...Maybe JonBenet was doing the same thing, just playfully hiding somewhere....turned the makeshift latch and pulled the door toward him. ... He closed the door, re-latched it and went upstairs." So here is my question. If Fleet White set out to find JonBenet, who might be playfully hiding, why would he open a latched door? If the latch was positioned near the top of the door, how did he imagine JonBenet reached it? If she was hiding inside, how did he imagine she could have latched the door from the outside? If he was basing his investigation on his familiarity with little girls hiding "playfully", how does a latched from the outside door, make sense? If Thomas is writing from the case file, then FW's peek into the windowless room has problems for me. He says he looked in and didn't see a thing. Supposedly it was a "stygian darkness" filled room. Forget about ambient lighting or filtered lighting from a window. The room was windowless and it sat behind the windowless boiler room with a door that opened to a windowless, cluttered hall. What is critical is whether or not the lights to the boiler room or hall were turned on. Why would White proceed to the windowless room through the equally dark boiler room? How did he see the white door in more "stygian darkness"? Or was there a light on in the boiler room? From Thomas' book - "White went downstairs. The lights were on, and shadows danced in the big basement." Which lights were on? As you descend the stairs you enter the basement hall. If a light or lights were on there, half the light accessible to the windowless room was blocked by a partition in the boiler room. And if White and Ramsey went into a lighted boiler room, then they both had the approximately the same amount of available light to view the windowless room. Just exactly when Ramsey screamed in relation to turning on the lightswitch Schiller likes to describe as "counterintuitive" is of critical importance. But if Thomas describes the windowless room White viewed, as filled with "stygian darkness", it's hard to imagine the boiler room was lighted. So the bottom line is that once again, White doesn't add up. How does he explain looking for a playful child in a room latched on the outside? And how does he explain the lighting that prevented him from seeing a bright white blanket? Even if he claims the room was filled with "stygian darkness", why wouldn't he have turned on the boiler room light/s? And even taking into account Fleet is tall, regardless of what test the photo store guy conducted, he should have seen that blanket, because he should have turned on the boiler room light, if it wasn't already on. And how come when Fleet and John entered the windowless room, no door resistance was mentioned? To me, something is hinky. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "The sequence from PMPT -" Posted by Holly on 09:15:16 7/27/2000 "White told detectives that he had been there only a few minutes when he started to search the house. Alone, he went down to the basement, found some of the lights on, and started calling out JonBenet's name....he turned right into the boiler room. At the back of the room, he said, he saw a door to what the Ramseys called the wine cellar. He turned the closed wooden latch and opened the door. The room was pitch-black, he said. He didn't enter and saw nothing. When he couldn't find a light switch, he closed the door and went back upstairs. He did not remember whether or not he relatched the door." Once again, which lights were on? Fleet is confronted with a pitch-black room, so it does not seem likely he turned on the boiler room light. He didn't go in. He couldn't find a light switch. And having already experienced Daphnes's disappearance, described as "playful", it doesn't seem that much effort went into viewing the wine cellar, in case JB was playfully hiding in the darkness. It just seems odd to me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Holly" Posted by Ruthee on 09:20:52 7/27/2000 I'll not argue with your statements. These circumstances lead you to what conclusion? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Ruthee." Posted by Holly on 09:37:22 7/27/2000 I don't think FW went to the basement looking for a playful child. I think he looked in the windowless room and saw what was there. Either he knows the body was not in the room OR he knows that it was. Either way he's leaving something out of his account. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Holly" Posted by tx_sunshine on 09:41:35 7/27/2000 I remember this kind of latch from when I was a kid. The way I remember it,the wood block would move into place when the door shut.The longest end of the block would drop down when the door shut, thus locking it.If FW looked into that room he MIGHT have thought that it locked JBR in the room and she fell asleep while waiting for someone to find her.FWIW I still have a great respect for FW and ST. JFJB Tx-sunshine [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Holly" Posted by Ruthee on 09:50:35 7/27/2000 Let's start with "he knows the body was not in the room." Let's assume that he did know the body was not in the room. Let's assume he opened the door went in without light and there was no body. Why would he even mention that he went near that room. What reason would he have to lie about this. From the information I have, no one saw him open the door and look into the room. He need not have mentioned it at all. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Ruthee." Posted by Holly on 10:12:13 7/27/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:12:13, 7/27/2000 Suppose he wasn't completely certain that someone else wasn't quietly examining the basement and saw him at that door? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Holly" Posted by Ruthee on 10:28:58 7/27/2000 Ok, let's assume that he had to cover his tracks and "admit" that he looked into the room because he couldn't be sure that someone was "spying" on him in the basement. Let's assume that he saw the body in the room at that time. What reason would he have not to report the body? You can't say that he did not want to be the one to find the body. If that were the case he would never have gone near that room while alone. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Ruthee." Posted by Holly on 11:38:54 7/27/2000 One particularly sinister possibilty is that FW was involved. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 69. "Holly" Posted by Ruthee on 15:14:15 7/27/2000 You're talking to me in circles now. I knew that was your thought from the beginning. I'm trying to get some reasoning that makes sense to me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "alternative" Posted by fly on 09:52:14 7/27/2000 tx_sunshine has one alternative. I'll post another: Perhaps FW didn't happen to think about the fact that a latched door would rule out the room as a hiding place, or that JBR wouldn't be able to reach the latch in the first place. Like too many things in this case, too many possibilities and no way to determine the right one. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "fly." Posted by Holly on 10:15:29 7/27/2000 Would you agree, in general, that a person who already knew how playful little girls can be when hiding, should have not been deterred by "stygian darkness". And didn't FW know about the ransom note? If he knew that, why would he suggest something stoopid like she might be hiding? Why not accept the fact that she's GONE? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "One Question" Posted by Leigh on 10:24:16 7/27/2000 Would any of you think that a child was hiding when you had just been shown a ransom note that said she would be beheaded? It was a note that a 6-year old could not have written. My first response would have been to take off running through the streets screaming out her name--not down to the basement looking in closets. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Leigh." Posted by Holly on 10:25:42 7/27/2000 Exactly. In my view, Fleet's search for a missing, playfully hiding child, does not make sense. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "A very real possibility..." Posted by Voyager on 10:30:06 7/27/2000 exists that the close friends who had been called over to the Ramsey's that morning were frantic and stunned, with minds racing as to what might possibly have happened to JonBenet. In putting myself in that situation, I do not know if I would be thinking entirely rationally about every little detail I saw, or the exact meaning of closed doors and hooked latches. I think I would be just thinking of looking very thoroughly in every room in the house, just to make sure the child was not there. Remember, the Whites had recently had the scare with Dauphine being lost and then found hiding in a closet (cupboard?) in their own home...perhaps Fleet had this still fresh in his mind and was just being very methodical. The Whites were very close to JonBenet. I would assume that they felt nearly as frantic as the parents would (given the possibility of normal parents). Not everyone thinks or reacts alike during a time of crisis. I think that in this situation, I might very well have done just as Fleet did. I would have started in the very far corner of the house and not left any stone unturned or any door closed. I do not find anything strange in Fleet's behavior here as a friend reacting to another friend's crisis. Probably though, I would have started in the top-most part of the house instead of the basement...but then I think Fleet may have been following John's lead into the basement. Now to get off the subject only slightly. I have wondered about one little thing with Fleet opening the door to the wine cellar and not detecting JonBenet's body. What about the smell emanating from JonBenet's body when John found her a few hours later? Wouldn't there have been a distinct odor of decay when the door to a small, closed room was opened if it did at that time contain a dead body? I believe that when Fleet opened that door, the wine cellar room did not contain the body. I believe that John moved the body into that room during the time that he was reportedly, getting the mail or during the time when Detective Arndt was alone in the house with the Ramseys and their friends and not able to keep tabs on everyone's whereabouts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "You are right" Posted by Holly on 10:54:47 7/27/2000 about that odor subject, Voyager. By 6 am she was dead for at least 6 hours. By 1 pm, Arndt detected an obvious odor. This odor built, despite the presumably chilly basement temp. Nope on the Fleet White frantic angle, IMO. He was a hundred times more frantic in GA. And by then she was long dead. And what about the ransom note? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Yes. The latch mechanics" Posted by Holly on 10:10:19 7/27/2000 are part of the missing picture. Did it "drop lock" or did it require manipulation? Was the small wood piece screwed on the frame or on the door? How high on the door/frame was the block screwed? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Reasonable oddness" Posted by Rascal on 10:14:35 7/27/2000 Fleet White's behavior is reasonable and without suspect. He's in a frustrated state of anguish and fear. He's an older male with failing eyesight and no proven pre-knowledge of light switch location. He's not carrying a flashlight. And he's not a professional policeman. All persons and even police hesitate to enter unknown dark unlit building confines. And the police did hesitate that morning and their training was inadequate. John Ramsey does have full knowledge and past experience of the room and it's light switch. And so, when John goes into the dark cellar and turns on the light, he immediately finds his daughter JBR. The body IMO being placed at the optimum lighted location by killer. The 'white' blanket being a important element arranged by the killer. The blanket we can expect from the father's statements was underneath JBR as a back drop. The darkness described of the cellar is important to the killer's image/symbolism construction. IMO it's a burial tomb scene well thought out by killer. The killer who turned light off, and shut the stickey door while latching it behind him/her before leaving. The killer of JBR knew where that light switch was, Fleet White did not know where the switch was located that morning. One would have to prove White had foreknowledge and faked it that morning. IMO The killer had full knowledge of least three floors of the Ramsey home. The killer had absolute knowledge of the basement and cellar. A knowledge that went beyond the Ramsey's best friends, maid, and most household members. The latch on the cellar door tells us a great deal about the killer. The latch was closed by the killer. A killer with a detailed thought out plan. The killer used a distinct type of--garrote--,it was the "sliding noose" type garrote and is a key piece of evidence. The garrote to my knowledge is only described in one published book. THE LIFE AND DEATH OF A DRUID PRINCE. by ANNE ROSS & DON ROBINS (pg.113) It's displayed among gold torques before use, and it is like three (3) hearts on a rope/cord. The three (3) hearts of the crime scene are on JBR's palm, the business article picture, and rumored heart on Santa bear. All these hearts IMO have to be outlined red drawn hearts to mimic garrote knot picture. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Wrong, rascal." Posted by Holly on 10:24:19 7/27/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:24:19, 7/27/2000 You have no idea if White had "failing eyesight". Maybe he was wearing contacts or, being a retired oil millionaire, had laser eye surgery. Wasn't the body "wrapped" in the blanket so that it was also on top of the body? The police did not fail to enter the room out of fear of the unknown. One officer couldn't make the door open and another thought the fact that the door was latched meant it could not have been an escape route. That impacts also, the theory that the latch was a "drop latch". It doesn't seem to have appeared that way to the officer. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Also, rascal." Posted by Holly on 10:28:28 7/27/2000 Why would the killer have to/want to lock a door? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Holly" Posted by Sylvia on 10:32:08 7/27/2000 I couldn't sleep last night and was just in bed thinking. I admit I still do not have any proof that FW is involved in any way and to me that is enough untill proven otherwise. However I did think why did he go down the basement?? And I really do not have the answer to that. Sylvia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Holly" Posted by sds on 10:43:41 7/27/2000 Was the latch dusted for fingerprints? Good sleuth work, Holly. I have no idea if this FW is involved in anyway, but on the most remote chance that he is, wouldn't he have to reapply his fingerprints to that latch to explain why they were there in the first place? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "silly ramsom note..." Posted by rose on 11:14:12 7/27/2000 What was the first thing you all thought after reading that silly selfserving ransom note? For me it was an instant thought. That silly note sounds just like the Paugh girls talk. Fleet was more familiar with these people than I was and that note might have raised his doubt as to what really was happening. What he said as to his motives and actions on the day the body was found, was to cover for his unfounded personal thoughts and actions. How many of us would have stood there and expressed these personal thoughts, we would have made nice explanations for our actions and took a few days to dwell on his personal feelings before expressing them to police. In the next few days, the Ramseys acted so foriegn to what he would have done and what I personally would have done, that his thoughts were reenforced and he spoke out on what he felt and what he had saw. This makes more sense than any other theory I have heard. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "how soon we forget...LOLOLOL" Posted by fly on 10:58:33 7/27/2000 How many DOZENS of times have people on this forum yelled about the Ramseys' failure to search the house top to bottom in every nook and cranny immediately after finding the note, even though the note says she's been taken away? And now some want to suggest it would be stupid to do that search when looking at FW's behavior? LOLOLOLOLOL! I agree (always have) that it doesn't make sense to look for a child inside the house when there's a ransom note. The question is whether people were really acting rationally early that morning. Calling over half a dozen friends in spite of the note doesn't exactly make sense either. Neither does calling the police when you've killed your kid and the body is still in the house...etc. As to why the darkness would have deterred him...not being FW, I can't say. Maybe he couldn't imagine a kid hiding in such a dark room, or at least that if there, they'd not continue hiding once somebody opened the door. Maybe he's lying about the whole thing; I'm not saying that couldn't be the case. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Fly" Posted by Sylvia on 11:13:42 7/27/2000 I absolutely do not know. I always try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Counts for FW and also for the R's, however I do accuse them from obstruction justice at the least, of course I have my opinion, however I can not prove it. I can only challenge them and I will continue to do so! Sylvia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Yep." Posted by Holly on 10:55:52 7/27/2000 And he would not be able to waste a minute planting them. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Sylvia." Posted by Holly on 10:50:23 7/27/2000 And what we've been told, just doesn't make sense, IMO. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Holly" Posted by Sylvia on 10:58:17 7/27/2000 You are right on that, I mean there is a ransom note and them why would you be looking for a playfull child, that bugs me. Sylvia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Sylvia" Posted by Ribaldone on 11:11:37 7/27/2000 "I mean there is a ransom note and them why would you be looking for a playfull child, that bugs me." Easy explanation for that -- White recognized (like anyone with half a brain would) that the note was bogus. Schiller reported that the "friends" sat around that morning examining and commenting on the note. All, except John, commented that it sounded like Patsy. Fleet White's apparently no dummy and probably figured that there was more here than meets the eye. And, he was right. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 85. "Didn't a single friend wonder?" Posted by Ayeka on 10:49:53 7/28/2000 Ribaldone wrote: > Schiller reported that the "friends" sat around that morning examining and commenting on the note.< What I have to wonder is, didn't a single FRIEND question as they sat around dissecting the note, "Look, it says if they call the police or talk to a stray dog, she dies. What the F*&@ are we doing here?" Ayeka [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Are you suggesting, Ribaldone" Posted by Holly on 11:22:34 7/27/2000 that Fleet was allowed to handle evidence by the BPD? Are you assuming that before splintering from the group "minutes after arriving", FW pored over the obviously phony note? If FW thought the note bogus, then why didn't he tell officers that? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "Holly," Posted by Ribaldone on 13:40:09 7/27/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:40:09, 7/27/2000 He may very well have told the police the note sounded bogus. It was in Schillers book that all the friends comments on how strange the note sounded and how much parts of it sounded like Patsy. But even if he didn't mention it to the police, so what? It was in the early stages, the police are there and the FBI is on their way -- let them handle it. When they get around to interviewing the guests, make your opinion known then. At this point, they didn't know the BDP didn't know what the hell they were doing. And I don't believe White contaminated anything intentionally. I believe he was confused, upset and bewildered about what was happening. Don't waste your time trying to convince me of White's involvement unless you've got some new FACTS. I'm waiting for the FBI to complete their investigation. Edited to add: I just re-read your post and I guess that is what I am suggesting. But only because it was in Schiller's book that the friends were reading/commenting on the note (I assume it was in a protective plastic bag at that point). I am basing my comment on Schiller's reported information. I'll have to check Thomas' book to see if he mentions it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Rib, could be true as well" Posted by Sylvia on 11:16:15 7/27/2000 That is my problem it really bugs me. Sylvia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "more questions" Posted by Seashell on 11:05:38 7/27/2000 I've never been able to understand why it was FW who more or less searched the house (basement) and not JR. JR "ran around a bit" and that's the most stupid thing he's ever said - actually it's right up there with hundreds of stupid things. JR's child is missing and FW searches. To make matters more suspicious, the search is relegated only to the basement and then later JR dashes off to the basement to find the body, after already spending *quiet* time in the basement. The basement and only the basement, in that big house with lots of hiding room, was very important to both men. Do we have a photo of the door and latch? JR dissuaded someone from opening the door, using the painted excuse. What time was that and when in the order of things? And if he thought that the door couldn't or wouldn't be opened, why did he run right to that room and open the door? It's another contradiction. It just amazes me that that man is still free. Yes, Holly, it's odd that FW would think JBR was hiding after reading a beheading note, unless he thought it was a practical joke and the note was written by the joker. The latched (freshly painted?) door and the lighting situation added to JR's 40 minutes in the basement hold the keys IMO. And all of those keys are held in the hands of JR and FW. Scary, isn't it? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "opportunists" Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:52:20 7/27/2000 Doesn't anyone else find it odd that JR and FW both, wandered from the group against police instructions? Yeah, I know, nobody ACTUALLY SAID "stay put", but why wander at all? JR had plenty of time to wander after reading the note, yet he chose to AFTER THE POLICE SEARCHED. Whazza matter? Don't believe in the abilities of Boulder's finest? Same goes for FW, who really had NO BUSINESS searching ANYWHERE! That point really sticks in my craw. And Ruthee, I agree, why mention that you looked in the room, until I realize you have no choice but to mention it, because your fingerprints will give you away. Best get it out front right away, and specify WHEN those prints were FIRST made. I'm still not convinced these people are ALL so naive without any knowledge of forensics. HA! And, speaking of trace evidence, I got back to JR in the cellar for 40 minutes. I am thinking that he did indeed move the body, tho it might have been in a different spot in the windowless room. Anyway, he moved it the same way he carried her, BECAUSE, he couldn't have known at 10 AM, that at 1PM, he'd be able to "find" her. Hence, he didn't want his fibers on her, so he took his time moving her gingerly out and away and in position. He had no idea how lucky he'd get later on, but just like the flashlight batteries, he forgot that he didn't need to hold her away when he brought her upstairs, those fibers would naturally have transfered! Then, he throws the blanket over her before Arndt could say BOO! He wipes down the flashlight and batteries, then later on it's learned that it's the R's maglite. I'm sure the idea behind it at first, was to appear that the perp left it as a calling card. But, durn it, the housekeeper put that little fire out early on. Said the kids had it taken from them for using up the batteries. GOTCHA! I guess JR's business in the basement was done by the seat of his pants, and he once again overkilled by trying too hard not to leave fibers. HIS FIBERS, that is. Oh, I thought, too, that she was wrapped like a papoose in her white blanket? Or, rather, a burrito, because her feet stuck out. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Seashell." Posted by Holly on 11:24:20 7/27/2000 Yes. Exactly. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Not the best pix, but" Posted by Seeker on 11:03:35 7/27/2000 here. Check it out for yourselves. http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/Candy/basement.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Well, Seeker" Posted by Holly on 11:19:35 7/27/2000 For the life of me, if we can assume a light on in the bottom of the stairs area, upon opening the door to the boiler room and the door to the windowless room, then I don't see how Fleet missed the white blanket wrapped body. Thanks for those pics! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "What strikes me most here " Posted by fiddler on 11:24:42 7/27/2000 is: Why would anyone have an exterior latch on a door? It obviously wouldn't keep anyone OUT of the room--anyone tall enough to turn the latch, that is. So, it must have been there to prevent the door being opened from the INSIDE of the room. In other words, the latch was there to keep someone IN. Weird. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "One thought, fiddler." Posted by Holly on 11:30:39 7/27/2000 IF the door, due to a construction defect, had a tendency to swing open, you might affix a latch to keep it closed. However, that didn't happen here. Grown men felt resistence trying to open the door. Untimely swinging could not have been the problem. And you also answered another question. It's only purpose would have been to prevent small people from getting in - or getting out. Was this the room JB told Barnhill she didn't like. Did someone lock her in there from time to time? Who affixed the lock, and why? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Food For Thought!" Posted by shadow on 11:41:34 7/27/2000 From ST's book - "Fleet White stepped away from the little group attending the Ramseys and took a walk inside the house. No one had told him not to. ...Maybe JonBenet was doing the same thing, just playfully hiding somewhere....turned the makeshift latch and pulled the door toward him. ... He closed the door, re-latched it and went upstairs." Leigh asked - "Would any of you think that a child was hiding when you had just been shown a ransom note that said she would be beheaded? It was a note that a 6-year old could not have written." Lots of questions and flat-out assertions have been posted on this and other threads concerning FW's actions, attitudes, morals, relationships, etc., etc., etc., but, Leigh's question is "a grabber" - to me, it's in the category of why did the Ramseys call all those people to their house knowing their daughter could be beheaded for such conduct. shadow [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "Leigh's observation is " Posted by Holly on 12:16:02 7/27/2000 a winner. It grabbed me too. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Shadow" Posted by Sylvia on 11:56:10 7/27/2000 that was the first thing that made me suspicious. I cannot understand inviting everyone in while there is a threat to kill your child if talking to a stray dog and you invite half the town to your home, very strange!! Sylvia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Holly and Fiddler" Posted by docg on 11:51:16 7/27/2000 Holly, I see nothing sinister in Fleet White's actions that AM. As someone pointed out, no one saw him open that door, so if he had some sinister purpose in doing it he could have just not said anything about it at all. If on the other hand he was trying to frame John, he could have said he turned on the light instead of admitting he couldn't find the switch. If Fleet HAD turned on the light AND not seen JonBenet's body in that room, this would have made the Ramseys look VERY bad indeed. Why didn't he see the body? Possibly it wasn't there at the time and was moved there later by John. Possibly it was hidden very well away in that room, under blankets and in a corner rather than wrapped in a blanket and right out in the open, as John has claimed. Fiddler: >is: Why would anyone have an exterior >latch on a door? It >obviously wouldn't keep anyone OUT of >the room--anyone tall enough to turn >the latch, that is. >So, it must have been there to >prevent the door being opened from >the INSIDE of the room. >In other words, the latch was there >to keep someone IN. >Weird. Yes. I've had that thought as well. It's been suggested the latch, which is very high up, could have been there to keep the children out of the room. But why? What could have been stored in there that would have been more hazardous than the substantial clutter of the basement generally. There may be a perfectly innocent explanation for the existence of that latch, but, like you, I still find it weird -- and frightening. If you close the door behind you and that latch slips down, you are trapped in that little room and no one might be able to hear your cries. Scary!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "docg" Posted by Seeker on 12:18:08 7/27/2000 "Yes. I've had that thought as well. It's been suggested the latch, which is very high up, could have been there to keep the children out of the room. But why?" If I had a room that I was going to use as a wine cellar (eventually) then I definatley would want to keep my kids out of it! Just what every mother, and/or father wants huh, a couple of soused kids! lol The door was made to swing out only, however the latch at the top prevented it from swinging out on it's own. The door didn't swing in. The number 1 reason the cop felt "resistance" is because he was probably tyring to push the door inward, not pull it outward. Holly, "So here is my question. If Fleet White set out to find JonBenet, who might be playfully hiding, why would he open a latched door? If the latch was positioned near the top of the door, how did he imagine JonBenet reached it? If she was hiding inside, how did he imagine she could have latched the door from the outside? If he was basing his investigation on his familiarity with little girls hiding "playfully", how does a latched from the outside door, make sense?" I think these are valid questions. What if he suspected that JB and Burke were playing hide-n-seek? Just a thought. Or maybe he thought Patsy was doing this for publicity and hid JonBenet? I don't know. I do know me and I would have a lot of different thoughts going at the same time and may not remember every one of them and only said the one I remembered. :) Remember, I'm not as young as I once was... I don't think he saw the note. The cops pretty much took that as evidence right away to show the FBI when they showed up. I don't know how, or if, Fleet White fits into this horrendous crime. I'll have to wait and see. Until then, I'm back to lurking when I have time. Gotta work and pay those bills! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "latch.." Posted by rose on 12:13:13 7/27/2000 That has always bothered me too. It has been said that it was put there to keep the children out to prevent them from seeing Christmas gift, ect. By the time they were old enough to go down alone in the basement and think of looking for hidden things, they were smart enough to get a chair or makeshift climber to get up high enough to unlatch the door. It makes more sense to me that the larch was put on to keep something from escapeing. Maybe the dog that was prone to accidents was kept there at times. If he could push against this door and get out, the latch might have been added to keep him in. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "The Latch" Posted by frankg on 12:11:43 7/27/2000 Admittedly the pictures are poor but I'll be damned if I can detect a latch on the door frame. Even after enlarging and enhancing the picture I see nothing. What confuses me is this. The door opens out and is hinged on the right side. For a wood block latch to work it would have to be mounted on the door frame on the left, yet there is nothing there. I'm not sure this means anything other than another puzzle piece... Doc, one reason for Fleet to claim he opened the door would be if he suddenly realized he may have left his fingerprints where they perhaps didn't belong and needed an explanation just in case. Just a thought... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "If Fleet White " Posted by HARLEY on 12:29:40 7/27/2000 opened the door to the windowless room as he said he did and looked for the light switch I would think he would have looked to the left on the wall beside the door. The logical place (in my opinion) for the light switch to be. Assuming the light behind him in the basement was on and the fact that the windowless room is not that big of a room and she was laying on or under a white blanket there is no way that Fleet could not have seen her. Which only means one thing that John moved her while he was missing for those 40 minutes. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "And take a look at the pics, Harley." Posted by Holly on 13:12:27 7/27/2000 You can see the windowless room from the stair landing (basement hall area). The light is off, and it is still clearly visible with the door open. Where is the pitch-black Fleet described to cops? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Yes Holly, something is" Posted by Abby on 12:21:51 7/27/2000 hinky...Why would FW be looking for a playful JB when he knew there was a ransom note??? Did he think she wrote it as a joke. I think this must be taken into consideration. I think FW's actions are very suspicious to say the least. He knows something imho, don't know what, but I think he could probably crack this case wide open if he came forward!! Abby [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "the latch" Posted by DebDeb on 12:45:37 7/27/2000 Can someone point me in the direction of where the statements that the Ramseys put the latch on the door could be found? Was it in one of the books? If so, which one. I was thinking that maybe there was nothing sinister in regards to the Ramseys at all about the latch being on the door and that maybe it was that way when they bought the house and something that they never got around to changing. But if I'm reading right, people are saying the Ramsey put the latch on the door to keep the kids out when Christmas gifts were hidden in there. So if someone could help me out I'd appreciate it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "DebDeb." Posted by Holly on 13:13:39 7/27/2000 Wish I could help. But, I've never heard that. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "oops" Posted by DebDeb on 13:52:09 7/27/2000 I went back and re-read the posts and yes it appears I did read it wrong. Nobody said the Ramseys claimed to have put the latch on that door to keep the kids from looking at Christmas presents. It was only a suggested reason for it being there. My mistake. So I stand with my original thought that the latch was probably there when they purchased the house and just never changed it. No evil reason for it being there. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Could be...." Posted by rose on 12:48:19 7/27/2000 Fleet was haveing his doubts as soon as he got there that morning. Some thing might have seemed hinky the moment he saw the Ramseys and saw there reactions and tale. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Latched Door" Posted by Gemini on 13:16:13 7/27/2000 When we were house shopping, we looked at an older house that had cupboards with this kind of latch. Also, older daughter's first apartment was the second floor of a house that had probably been built in the 20s or 30s, and the utility area door was latched on the outside this way. The purpose is to keep these older doors (maybe warped a little over time) closed ... not to lock anything/anyone inside. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Holly...the quote is taken from ST's book..." Posted by Twitch on 13:19:25 7/27/2000 the quote was not taken directly from FW, unless he has been quoted elsewhere about the "playfullness", etc. Is ST putting thoughts in FW's head? I know there have been times in my life where I have searched for things while under pressure, and certainly less pressure than these people faced on that day. On those occasions I'm sure I looked everywhere for my lost whatever, even the most improbable places. I'm sure that everyone there that morning came quickly to separate conclusions that they were far too scared to discuss, FW included. They were concerned for their missing friend and her parents whom they knew so well, warts and all. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "I did identify that the quote" Posted by Holly on 13:24:08 7/27/2000 in question was from Steve Thomas' book. I did not say it was a direct Fleet quote. :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "Yes you did" Posted by Twitch on 14:13:38 7/27/2000 identify the quote. I guess my point is you can't believe everything you read, even if it comes from a good source. How do we know for sure that FW thought she might be playfully hiding, because ST said so months later in a book? Also, I've always read that if you have 5 eyewitnesses to an event you will get 5 different descriptions of said event...and some people do react different physically to light and darkness. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "Twitch." Posted by Holly on 14:21:25 7/27/2000 Did you see the door latch in the pics from Seeker? And yes, who knows what is Steve, his collaborator or White. I tend to give Thomas the edge on accuracy because he did retain a file on the case and notes. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "I can't see the latch" Posted by Twitch on 14:32:20 7/27/2000 But like Gem, I have seen what I have read described in old houses before. An interesting thread. Keep em coming. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "To Edie Pratt" Posted by Leigh on 14:23:49 7/27/2000 Edie you said: "Doesn't anyone else find it odd that JR and FW both, wandered from the group against police instructions? Yeah, I know, nobody ACTUALLY SAID "stay put", but why wander at all?" Yes, I find it odd too, and actually somebody did say "stay put." Fleet White went downstairs and picked up the duct tape from the floor to look at it after Det. Arndt "told" him to guard the basement door and not let anyone go down there. This 2nd time he wandered down happened after the body was found. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "Looking at the pics, I think I see the latch." Posted by Holly on 13:21:08 7/27/2000 It's mid-way up the door on the "wine cellar" description pic. Anyone know the dimensions of the room? It's no bigger than a walk-in closet. With her stiff arms stretched over her head, wrapped in a bright white blanket, her total length was about 50-52 inches. It looks like her body and blanket would have taken about half of the available floor space and maybe more. How could FW not have seen that? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "was there a dryer in the basement?" Posted by Edie Pratt on 13:24:16 7/27/2000 maybe JR took it out of the dryer at 10 AM, wrapped JB in it, and that's why FW didn't see her? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "Gemini" Posted by v_p on 13:43:18 7/27/2000 Your explanation sounds perfectly reasonable, however, there is no room on this thread for the voice of reason :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "Excuse me Holly" Posted by Seeker on 13:43:21 7/27/2000 You said, "You can see the windowless room from the stair landing (basement hall area). The light is off, and it is still clearly visible with the door open. Where is the pitch-black Fleet described to cops?" Let me explain. These pictures were taken after the Ramsey's had moved out. You cannot see this room from the basement stair landing. You have to walk up a few steps then to the right. There is one door, a small windowless, narrow hall then the "wine cellar" door. I don't remember when these pictures were taken if the door to the "wine cellar" had been removed or not. The area looks like you can see what was there from the pictures due to the flash from the camera. The hallway is very dimly lit and there is no way you could see into the room without having the light on. The way the hallway is and the lights were hung, blocks any light from really entering the room in the morning. These pictures were taken in the afternoon. Hope that explains the pix better. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "Seerker." Posted by Holly on 13:53:01 7/27/2000 If the boiler room light is on and the latched door open, can you see then? If the flash looks like it is popping about 30 feet away behind doorways, somewhere in the counter area, how much does it actually light that windowless room? Aren't a couple of pics taken without flash or from a different angle? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "Holly" Posted by Seeker on 14:45:33 7/27/2000 I'll try my best to remember OK? Just remember there is a difference due to the time of year, and time of day as to what you can see, or what is hidden in shadow. "If the boiler room light is on and the latched door open, can you see then?" No, not really, remember the door opens inward and it blocks a lot of light. "If the flash looks like it is popping about 30 feet away behind doorways, somewhere in the counter area, how much does it actually light that windowless room?" I honestly don't know how much area it would light in the windowless room. The hall to the windowless room is windowless too (it's probably 5 feet long, maybe) "Aren't a couple of pics taken without flash or from a different angle?" I believe Candy used a flash for each picture, but I could be wrong. Angles I'm not sure about. ACandyRose took these pictures, not I. Check this website, it's really well done. http://members.aol.com/SundanceIM/Kid/JBR/index3.htm [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "EdieP" Posted by Holly on 13:53:55 7/27/2000 Yes, there is a washer and dryer in the basement. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "About that room and FW," Posted by gaiabetsy on 14:12:38 7/27/2000 Most of you know I have been in his corner, but find myself feeling just a tad more ambivalent. I'm open to all thoughts about him, but I still feel he may be getting a bum rap from some of you guys. It just seems to me FW was drawn into a bad situation and out of fear and self-preservation, made it worse. I think Fleet started walking around and went downstairs and poked around just to "kill time" and give himself something more or less useful to do. I can't imagine how weird it must have been at the Ramsey home that morning. Everybody must have had "the creeps" and didn't know what to do or how to act. I can see myself doing what Fleet did. I might take a walkabout to see if anything "turned up". I, then, opened the door to that room, and if it truly was very dark and creepy, I'd have stopped short of doing anything else but give the room a cursory look. I'm ambivalent about what I think Fleet saw and how he reacted afterward. I believe even if he saw a "white sheet" on the floor, he might be justified in assuming (especially if he happened to be as scared as I would be in that situation) it was just a piece of cloth on the floor. On the other hand, maybe he recognized exactly what that was. In so many ways, this possibility could certainly explain his apparently "over the top" behavior in Atlanta. Also, his letters. But the majority of me says regardless which scenario is closer to the truth, I think the man just truly got caught up in something ugly and has been trying (ever since) to set the record straight and extricate himself from the mess. JMHO [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "Holly" Posted by Pope38 on 14:33:04 7/27/2000 The counter-intuitive light switch that Schiller talks about on MSNBC special is not at the top of the stairs leading to the basement. The light switch is on the wall in the hall to the basement. If you get a chance check MSNBC Time and Again where Schiller explains the lighting in the basement. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "Edie & Holly" Posted by Seeker on 14:50:20 7/27/2000 "Yes, there is a washer and dryer in the basement" Well there was, but it was to the left if I remember the diagram. I'll have to look again. There was a washer/dryer by JonBenet's room too. I would guess, reasonably, that unless it was a small load type, her sheets and blankets would have been washed and dried in the closest one. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 70. "FW" Posted by lake on 15:31:50 7/27/2000 His "story" about looking into the windowless room, picking up glass and moving the suitcase by the broken basement window, returning to the windowless room and picking up the tape that had been removed from the mouth of JBR by JR, is just that, as story. There is no way that you can verify independent of FW and his story that any of that actually took place. IMO none of the three events make any reasonable sense under the circumstances of the morning of 12/26/96, and therefore I tend to question that any of it happened the way he said it happened. He acts like he thinks JBR may be hiding or hidden in the basement and he does not follow up to find the light switch or get a light so he can really check a room that is so dark that he cannot adequately search. It does not fit. He notices a broken window , picks up some of the glass and places it on the window sill and maybe on the suitcase, moves the suitcase but does not immediately mention the broken window to JR or to the cops who were there. It does not fit. Arndt tells FW to guard the basement door and not to let anyone in the basement after JR brings the body of the dead JBR up from the basement. FW says he went back to the room and picked up the tape that had been removed from the mouth of JBR and examined it. Leaving his prints on the tape I would suspose. It does not fit. Some may to take FW at his word, but I say the circumstances of these three seperate, independent events do not fit and the man may just as well be misrepresenting his actions rather than telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 71. "And" Posted by lake on 15:49:36 7/27/2000 This was on day one. Now maybe the actions of the Ramseys on day one were questionable and a unusual for the circumstances, but so were the actions of FW. And the actions of both the Ramseys and the Whites continued to be unusual for the circumstances to this very day. There are just too many things to explain away on both sides of the White/Ramsey equation to conclude that what you think you see is what is actually there regarding either the Whites or the Ramseys. And when you admit that to yourself, I believe you can begin to seperate the fiction of this case from what may have been. But there is more than one what may have been. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 72. "May I intercede" Posted by gaiabetsy on 16:35:11 7/27/2000 and say I think there is a real possibility we are dealing with a man (Fleet White) who is really caught up in a mess and beside himself and trying to find a way out. Put yourself there. I don't suppose any of you could imagine that. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 73. "Caught in a mess?" Posted by lake on 16:58:16 7/27/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:58:16, 7/27/2000 Yeh. But of whose making? His? PR's. JR's, BR's? And that is were the matter of opinion and evaluation of the circumstantial evidence comes into play. The caught in a mess question provides a clue to nothing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 74. "reactions" Posted by Edie Pratt on 17:24:41 7/27/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 17:24:41, 7/27/2000 we have all heard about the plaintive wail, JR's rolling on the ground and moaning, Patsy's "Lazuruz" scene, etc. Does anyone know FW's reaction to finding a dead body with JR? Did he scream? Cry? Moan? Act the least bit surprised? I know he ran back upstairs, etc., but was he, along with the others, in shock? What about Priscilla? And, when did everybody go home? Did the cops question them after the body was found, or did they say "everybody out of the pool", and let them go? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 76. "Well" Posted by lake on 17:51:18 7/27/2000 The reports are that the first thing FW did when JR found the body was to touch the foot of JBR and found it cold. Not exactly a raction of panic or shock. More of a deliberate reasoned response to finding a body that many be dead. The he followed (or preceeded) JR up the stairs shouting for someone to call an ambulance. Then he is said to have immediately called his house to report on the status of what was going on in the Ramsey house. I guess the foot of JBR was good enough for him as to the state of JBR being alive or dead. Or maybe it was the state of rigor that he noted in the body as JR carried the lifeless, stiff as a board body up the stairs. Anyway, FW seemed know that she was dead and felt a need to relay at least the fact that the body had been found to the adults guests in his home. PW was reportedly making calls from the closet on the afternoon or evening of the 26th to people like Pam Griffin and a former babysitter for the Ramseys who had sat with both the Ramsey children and the White children. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 78. "Lake" Posted by Seeker on 18:18:39 7/27/2000 are these "reports" just rumors, or are they based in fact? Was Fleet White in the military? Did he serve during wartime, did he see enough dead bodies to know what one looked like right off? If her foot was cold and she wasn't moving, chances are he may have known she was dead by looking. I would have known right away too. I've seen a lot of corpses, not something you easily mistake for a sleeping person. What I find hard to believe is that John Ramsey didn't know his daughter was dead the minute he touched her, and yet he proceeded to carry her stiff body upstairs and lays her down by the Christmas tree and asks Dt Arndt, "Is she dead?". Now that's weird! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 81. "Yeh" Posted by lake on 18:59:45 7/27/2000 Maybe JR was in shock because he found is baby and FW was not it shock because he knew where the body was and had for some time. And everybody that follows this case knows that PW did not take Burke to her house. John Fernie and FW took Burke to the Whites. And they swung by the Fernie house to pick up the Fernie kids and deposit the at the White's also. What has been reported does not have PW leaving the Ramsey house until after the body was found. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 75. "Hmmm" Posted by Seeker on 17:48:33 7/27/2000 Edie >we have all >heard about the plaintive wail, JR's >rolling on the ground and moaning, >Patsy's "Lazuruz" scene, etc. Does anyone >know FW's reaction to finding a >dead body with JR? Did he >scream? Cry? Moan? Act the least >bit surprised? I know he ran >back upstairs, etc., but was he, >along with the others, in shock? >What about Priscilla? And, when >did everybody go home? Did the >cops question them after the body >was found, or did they say >"everybody out of the pool", and >let them go? I thought Priscilla was at the White home with the children (her own and Burke). Wasn't Fleet the one screaming for someone to call 911? I thought they were all questioned before anyone was let, or told to go anywhere. If Det Arndt had noticed him sobbing would it make a difference since so many here think he's "suspicious"? This is a good question (how did he react), but how did the Fernies react and Rev Holverstock? Do we know? Why aren't we questioning their actions as well (we probably should)? They may have done things, touched things, seen things that they haven't "fessed up" to too. I wonder where we could get that info.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 77. "hiding child" Posted by Matt on 18:11:16 7/27/2000 Well I see the RST is alive and well this Thursday. The paragraph being cited on this thread about a "hiding JB" does not say that FW thought, said, or felt JonBenet might be hiding. It does not say he went down to the basement because he thought, felt, or said she might be hiding. If you read the paragraph in the book it is simply conjecture on Thomas' part. Geez. The next thing I will be reading is one poster saying that brown shoes doth a murderer make, and then 15 people will agree, and by the time it's over 25 people will have a noose ready to hang every brown shoe wearer. This is really pathetic. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 79. "pathetic" Posted by lake on 18:53:22 7/27/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:53:22, 7/27/2000 Is you Matt. FW knows there is a ransom note and that JBR is missing and the cops are there. If he did not think JBR was hiding or had been hidden in the house (the basement) what was he doing going to the basement calling her name? What was he doing checking places in the basement. Or maybe you think that FW had some reason the think that kidnappers usually hide their victims in their own homes and leave ransom notes demanding money? You are a pathetic soul Matt. Try and make some sense if you are going to imply that it is pathetic to conclude that FW acted as if he thought JBR had been hidden or was hidden in the basement and could maybe hear him. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 80. "Ummm Lake?" Posted by Seeker on 18:55:06 7/27/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:55:06, 7/27/2000 >Is you Matt. FW knows there >is a ransom note (*OK How do you know that he "knew". Were you there? Maybe he didn't know until after that day?) and that >JBR is missing and the cops >are there. If he did >not think JBR was hiding or >had been hidden in the house >(the basement) what was he doing >going to the basement calling her >name? (*I gave you a possibility already, but here it is again. Perhaps, with what he knew of Patsy, he figured this was one of her stunts?) What was he doing >checking places in the basement (*Now hold on a minute. Do we know he didn't check other areas too?) .Or maybe >you think that FW had some >reason the think that kidnappers usually >hide their victims in their own >homes and leave ransom notes demanding >money? (*that is speculation. He may not have known there was a note, and then again see above) You are a pathetic >soul Matt.(*Matt's probably tired of trying to get others to look at it from all points of view too) Try and make some sense >if you are going to imply >that it is pathetic to conclude >that FW may have been hidden >or was hidden in the basement >and could maybe hear him. (*OK here you lost me, and others I'm sure. Do you mean JB, instead of FW? Lake if I could I'd send you a cold beer!) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 82. "Well, Seeker" Posted by lake on 19:02:09 7/27/2000 If I could I would chip in for a brain transplant for you. You apparently need one. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 83. "Some thoughts>" Posted by ayelean on 19:51:40 7/27/2000 First of all I could go either way on the guilt or innocence of FW. I need more facts. Until then I am going on the premise of no direct guilt on the death of JBR. Could any of you Boulderites look up the previous owners of the hellhole? That might be a start as to how exactly that door, the lighting, the size of the room etc plays in this portion of the mystery. It would be my guess that the latch is there because it HOLDS the door shut. I doubt if there is a threat of the latch falling into place accidently. The door probably has to be forced shut for the latch to be able to close. It is possible that the murderer wanted FW there and had to invite all the others so it wouldn't look to obvious to FW that he was being used as a scapegoat. Indeed it may be the total reason for inviting all the guests, eg to dilute Fleet's presence. I would guess that the murderer knew FW's nature and knew that he would be all over the scene and that his nature would be to disregard any orders from public servants. His arrogance is probably a trademark. If the murderer wanted the murder to resemble a ritualistic sexual abuse crime, and the murderer knew even a little of the quasi-relative that rightly or wrongly holds the Fleets responsible for her history, then inviting Fleet to muck up the crime scene was a planned event. If FW did have anything to with the murder do you think he would jump in his jalopy and be on the Ram's doorstep at 6am? I think he would have delayed to take a shower, bring in the cat, put the dog out, started the coffee or a host of other early morning chores to not get there before the body was found. I don't think he would have acted so eager beaver to be johnny on the spot that morning. About the odor of JBR. At 6-7 in the morning the longest she could be dead would have been 7-8 hours. A discernable odor wouldn't have been present. By 1pm she would have been dead 13 to 14hrs and depending on various conditions there may have been a slight odor. When Arndt said there was an odor of decay, it could have been the musty or moldy odors that the blanket (first like a pappoose then a taco, LOL Edie) could have picked up from that yucky floor and room. Also it might be possible that JBR's body was covered by something in that room, say a packing carton or one of those screens, at the time FW looked in there. Then later John lifted something off of her so the white blanket was exposed. I still don't think John SAW the body before he yelled that he did. He knew it was there because he found it earlier on his trip to the basement. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 84. "shocking guests" Posted by Edie Pratt on 10:22:44 7/28/2000 Hi Seeker! You asked why we don't disect the other guests that AM? Well, we kinda did. Fernie's actions were also odd, but his wife sort of negated the negative by saying Patsy wasn't acting right. Something about improper grieving skills, I don't fully recall. That's when the R's moved to the Stine's. Or, maybe Pasta Jays. Anyway, moving on, Rev.Rol really can't be questioned, can he? The Walker's were there, too, I believe. Hey, whatta you know? There's zip about them in my memory bank, who the hey ARE the Walker's?!? Roxy and Biff? Then, there's Dr. Beuf. We shreded him plenty, and now I believe we have him working somewhere on a chain gang, but don't quote me:-) I think that about covers the guest list, tho it sure doesn't answer the question at hand, does it? I have NO clue how ANY of them acted! LOL. This I do know, I would have been wigged out. No shower, coffee and cig? No time to put MY makeup on, and then sit there for hours watching Patsy clutch a tree ornament? oooh wee, I'd be steamed! Then the body. Uh uh, I'd lose it, you'd have to slap me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 86. "Edie" Posted by Seeker on 10:54:57 7/28/2000 Do we know how any of them really reacted, other than the Ramsey's? Dt Arndt didn't say (in her GMA interview) anything about anyone other than John and Patsy's actions/reactions. She was the only uninvolved (in the circle of friends) person there. The advocates had left for lunch, per Arndt's statements, and she was there all alone with these people. If she witnessed anyone else's reactions and it's in another interview somewhere (I thought she only did the GMA interview), I've yet to find it. I just think it's odd how we're all trying to "put ourselves there" and gauge the reactions of anyone other than the Ramsey's who's actions/reactions/antics were told by the one impartial (?) observer there. I was wondering if anyone knows and can provide a link, to any interviews with the other people there at the time. And why shouldn't we wonder about their reactions as well? I just want to get the factual information before I form an opinion of FW's behavior. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 87. "Mum's the word" Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:08:08 7/28/2000 at least for the party goers. You're right, Arndt made no mention of the other's reaction, but if we put our heads together, we might figure out why she COUNTED HER BULLETS. Now, what in tarnation does THAT mean? What, she was counting to see if she had enough plugs for everybody? If she were only worried about JR, then why count? One would be sufficient, no? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 88. "Good point Edie" Posted by Seeker on 11:47:48 7/28/2000 but maybe that was a habit of hers when she got into a tight situation too? She never said why she did that. It is an odd (to me) statement for her to make. Maybe her aim was lousy, or she didn't remember if she had any bullets in her gun. She looked totally freaked out to me on GMA with her eyes bugging out like she was terrified of being interviewed. Odd coincidence that she is interviewed publicly AFTER she claimed she couldn't remember anything about the events of that day to ST, now isn't it? I wonder if she's been going to the Ramsey School of "Convenient Amnesia"! lol [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 89. "LOL, Seeker!" Posted by Edie Pratt on 12:01:05 7/28/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:01:05, 7/28/2000 maybe she's a bad aim. HA! Couldn't/wouldn't you love to see her chasing Ol' Yeller around that "maze" of a house? P-ting! Ooops, there goes another Ming dynasty lamp, lol. The rest of the guests holding up couch cushions in terror. You're right, she came across on GMA like someone from another dimension. I thought it had something to do with editing, that maybe they took out the reasons for her wild eyed dramatics. She never specifically said WHO she believed killed JB, but GMA sure edited it to leave no question. As far as her "Ramnesia" goes, yeah, I'm with you. I can only wonder, why did she do that GMA thing, when she had NOTHING to gain? No book, no talk. What was her motivation? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 91. "Edie" Posted by Seeker on 12:46:06 7/28/2000 She was trying to clean up her tarnished public reputation. Remember she was held up as the scapegoat as to why the whole thing crumbled and the BPD looked inept. Supposedly she was trying to "set the record straight" on why what happened (John "discovering" the body instead of police, etc) happened the way it did. "I was the only one there, I kept calling for backup, I was being ignored and sacrificed to cover the rest of the BPD's collective butts (ie, it wasn't my fault the BPD is a bunch of bumbling buffoons, but they hung me out to dry, etc, etc.), I was under a gag order, I couldn't tell my side to the media, so I'm here to give you all the "real" dirt." And so on, and so forth. I think something's missing from her story. I'm just wondering if she's going to write a book next...maybe she's already working on one that will come out just as soon as her lawsuit against Koby is settled (or maybe it's Eller she's sueing). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 90. "How many were 'armed and dangerous?'" Posted by mary99 on 12:45:35 7/28/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:45:35, 7/28/2000 Did Linda Arndt become paranoid and count her bullets because she felt endangered by the number of males who may have been ARMED with a handgun? As far as I know, the 'guests' were never patted down by the BPD for concealed weapons. Whether would have been proper procedure or not, I can't say. Whether carrying a concealed weapon (handgun) is lawful in CO, I don't know. But whether lawful or not, if the 'guests' weren't asked to produce or admit to the presence of a concealed weapon, while the officers were there in numbers, and then left Arndt to 'guard the fort' alone, she had good cause later to be afraid. Arndt became concerned about her safety to the degree that she 'mentally counted her bullets'(20?). I would thus hazard a guess that she was not just afraid of JR, but others there too. Surrounded by men who were 'packing', lawfully or not, she looked at JR and had that moment of eye contact which made her count those bullets in her head. Why did she feel that she might not make it out of there alive? Because she felt that one or more of those in the house was involved in the death of JBR, may have been armed, and might shoot her before she could stop them? Lee Hill and a lot of other Boulderites carry a handgun legally. The Westword had an article on the proliferation of gun permits in Boulder County a while ago. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 92. "silly twit" Posted by Edie Pratt on 14:01:57 7/28/2000 now, that's just plain silly nomatter who was packing heat, because people knew she was there. Did she think Rev.Rol, and the ladies would stand back while the men had a shoot out with her? Did she believe they were all in on it? As far as cha, goes, she should have done that from the very start, just like all the other cops involved. They all defended their position in one way or another, what stopped her? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 93. "Edie" Posted by v_p on 14:12:09 7/28/2000 LOL See, LR was afraid FW was going to shoot her because JR found the body where FW had hidden it. Like that :) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 94. "I don't know, V-P" Posted by Edie Pratt on 14:25:25 7/28/2000 sounds like she was seeing stars. I don't know WHAT she was doing the entire time JR was in the basement, but there was another cop there at the time, why did'nt she tail him? WHAT were the rest of the people doing, that she couldn't leave them for a minute? I thought the victim's advocates were in the kitchen at 10AM? Didn't any of them notice JR going to the basement? C'mon, it wasn't THAT big of a house, nor were there THAT many people to police. Gees Louise, I've heard of coma patients more alert than that! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 95. "As long as we're questioning anything and" Posted by fiddler on 16:03:27 7/28/2000 everything, why take at face value FW's statement that he couldn't see anything in the room when he opened the door originally? Maybe he DID see JonBenet's body, but there was no way HE was going to bring it to anyone's attention--too sinister-looking. So maybe he just sat tight and hoped the cops would come back with a search warrant fast. Maybe THAT's why John "made a beeline" for that room--maybe Fleet suggested it. We've heard a lot about John and Patsy's demeanors during the waiting on Dec. 26--has anyone ever said or written anything about how the guests were acting? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE