Justice Watch Discussion Board "Maybe Patsy Told The Truth" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Maybe Patsy Told The Truth, Ruthee, 08:06:27, 8/03/2000 excellent, starry, 08:14:41, 8/03/2000, (#1) Yes, Ruthee, New York Lawyer, 08:21:19, 8/03/2000, (#2) Good Catch Ruthee, pybird, 08:25:55, 8/03/2000, (#3) Pam Paugh, Maggie, 09:13:43, 8/03/2000, (#14) Thank you, Ruthee, 08:26:16, 8/03/2000, (#4) My, my, my, Ruthee!, Greenleaf, 08:42:07, 8/03/2000, (#6) The photo of the GarrOAT from the Ramsey's Web Page..., Dunvegan, 11:30:33, 8/03/2000, (#25) You are amazing Ruthee., Twitch, 08:30:09, 8/03/2000, (#5) Hate to say this, darby, 08:47:59, 8/03/2000, (#8) Gee Ruthee..., Voyager, 08:42:39, 8/03/2000, (#7) Thanks Again, Ruthee, 08:50:35, 8/03/2000, (#9) It's the little things, Watching you, 08:51:29, 8/03/2000, (#11) Not bad at all, Ruthee, Ginja, 08:58:05, 8/03/2000, (#13) Ruthee,, BusDriver, 08:51:13, 8/03/2000, (#10) Rather significant, Seeker, 08:56:40, 8/03/2000, (#12) Ruthee what a woman, Tricia, 09:17:30, 8/03/2000, (#15) {{{Ruthee...I'm simply jaw-droppingly floored!}}}, Dunvegan, 09:26:25, 8/03/2000, (#16) Ruthie.., rose, 09:41:24, 8/03/2000, (#20) Great work Ruthee, kdubois2, 09:38:45, 8/03/2000, (#18) Very interesting. , Holly, 09:33:20, 8/03/2000, (#17) Ruthee, Twitch, 09:39:22, 8/03/2000, (#19) Ruthee, Seashell, 10:06:50, 8/03/2000, (#21) Ruthee, canadiana, 10:27:09, 8/03/2000, (#22) Darby..., Pretzel, 10:49:34, 8/03/2000, (#23) piping, Seashell, 11:18:39, 8/03/2000, (#24) Stunning... but..., Ayeka, 12:12:07, 8/03/2000, (#35) Ayeka, Ruthee, 12:47:55, 8/03/2000, (#43) Holly.....and All, mee too, 11:54:25, 8/03/2000, (#30) It was Me and my mom,Boots.., SDean1, 20:20:44, 8/03/2000, (#57) The marks!, Seeker, 11:39:02, 8/03/2000, (#28) canadiana, darby, 11:34:30, 8/03/2000, (#27) In 9/99, Holly, 12:04:42, 8/03/2000, (#33) Holly......, mee too, 20:52:37, 8/03/2000, (#58) darby, Twitch, 11:55:02, 8/03/2000, (#31) Well, Seashell, Holly, 11:32:43, 8/03/2000, (#26) flat cord?, Nandee, 11:51:09, 8/03/2000, (#29) Re:ink marks....., mee too, 12:05:43, 8/03/2000, (#34) Another possibility for Patsy and the cord, Holly, 12:02:02, 8/03/2000, (#32) Nandee....Holly, mee too, 12:19:57, 8/03/2000, (#37) Mee too, Seeker, 12:16:45, 8/03/2000, (#36) ...another thing, Nandee, 12:21:50, 8/03/2000, (#38) Brilliant deduction, Ruthee!, LizzieB, 12:40:59, 8/03/2000, (#41) Lizzie, Ruthee, 13:04:58, 8/03/2000, (#47) Well Nandee....., mee too, 12:35:44, 8/03/2000, (#39) Nandee, frankg, 12:39:33, 8/03/2000, (#40) Well frankg....., mee too, 13:01:14, 8/03/2000, (#46) Hi, Frankg!, Edie Pratt, 12:49:19, 8/03/2000, (#44) frankg, Nandee, 12:42:29, 8/03/2000, (#42) Now that I think of it, Seeker, 12:57:45, 8/03/2000, (#45) The cord.., frankg, 14:12:21, 8/03/2000, (#52) Lizzie B...., mee too, 14:02:33, 8/03/2000, (#51) uh Ruthee, Edie Pratt, 13:12:16, 8/03/2000, (#48) Hi Edie, Ruthee, 13:17:16, 8/03/2000, (#49) Hi Ruthee!, Edie Pratt, 13:22:28, 8/03/2000, (#50) frankg, Seashell, 15:39:34, 8/03/2000, (#53) Seashell, frankg, 07:57:47, 8/04/2000, (#60) Ruthie, you are amazing>, ayelean, 17:42:09, 8/03/2000, (#54) Now I remember>, ayelean, 17:57:18, 8/03/2000, (#55) The age of the photo, dawn, 18:20:42, 8/03/2000, (#56) Forgive me if this has been discussed..., A.K., 01:52:54, 8/04/2000, (#59) ................................................................... "Maybe Patsy Told The Truth" Posted by Ruthee on 08:06:27 8/03/2000 Maybe she didn't purchase the cord at a hardware store. Maybe she purchased it at a fabric store. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/nebula/9337/trim.html [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "excellent" Posted by starry on 08:14:41 8/03/2000 Ruthee, It most definitely looks like fabric trim to me. The jacket JonBenet is wearing also looks homemade. You're right about the collar not laying down properly. Good job, ruthee and I hope this is the break this case needs. You're incredible. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Yes, Ruthee" Posted by New York Lawyer on 08:21:19 8/03/2000 Excellent, excellent detective work! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Good Catch Ruthee" Posted by pybird on 08:25:55 8/03/2000 Nice job. I wonder if Pam G. gives the leftover material, etc. back to Patsy? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Pam Paugh" Posted by Maggie on 09:13:43 8/03/2000 Hasn't CAP also bragged about making some of JBR's clothes? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Thank you" Posted by Ruthee on 08:26:16 8/03/2000 I forgot to thank Nora for her help with the detail on the lapel photos. Thanks Nora. :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "My, my, my, Ruthee!" Posted by Greenleaf on 08:42:07 8/03/2000 That is just about the greatest single piece of detective work I've seen on this forum. Wow! I am very impressed; sleuthing at its very best. I sure hope that someone sends this to the BPD. Ruthee, you have outdone yourself. Whatever will you do now for an encore? It hardly gets any better than this! Love and peace to a great gal, Greenleaf [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "The photo of the GarrOAT from the Ramsey's Web Page..." Posted by Dunvegan on 11:30:33 8/03/2000 ...certainly looks like this is not a rounded twine/rope, but an edging tape. It is quite flat and "tape shaped" if you look at the length of material to the right side of the photo, just before the knot. I think Ruthee's nailed this one. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "You are amazing Ruthee." Posted by Twitch on 08:30:09 8/03/2000 With everything going on in your life, you're still heads above everyone else involved in this case. The weaving loom, now this. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Hate to say this" Posted by darby on 08:47:59 8/03/2000 But lapel cording befitting a multi-millionaire's daughter would not be the same stuff garrote ropes are made of. I've done a lot of sewing in my (longish) life, and plain old twine is ordinarily not used for garment cording, even if being covered with other fabric. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Gee Ruthee..." Posted by Voyager on 08:42:39 8/03/2000 If the Bounder BPD would put you on staff, they would have this wrapped up in no time! Ahhh but maybe they don't want to huh? Wrap it up I mean..... Looks like, Patsy was a real little "Martha Stewart with her little painting box and her sewing kit. "Make your very own distinctive and creative murder in minutes, with spare items found in your basement." Geezz, with all this evidence hanging around, Patsy has some nerve getting up on National TV weekly with her denial schtik....she must think she is so much brighter than the rest of the world. Go get her Ruthee! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Thanks Again" Posted by Ruthee on 08:50:35 8/03/2000 Everyone. I would have had this up two weeks ago, but things have been hectic around here. psssssssst: Beckner, when do I get to go through that house. :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "It's the little things" Posted by Watching you on 08:51:29 8/03/2000 that could finally bring this case to justice. Ruthie continues to amaze with her sleuthing abilities. At first I thought it was a long-shot, Ruthie, but the more I looked, the more it seems conceivable - it is possible more cord was bought than necessary for just this one outfit to be used on future outfits. Good find, Ruthie. How's Mr. Ruthie? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Not bad at all, Ruthee" Posted by Ginja on 08:58:05 8/03/2000 Patsy indeed is quite the arts & crafts person. All the tools of her trade (and daughter's murder) are right there in her home! I'm not sure if I'm mixing people up on this or what...forget names, I can't remember who's who right now. But there's the dressmaker and the dance teacher. Did Patsy work around both of them? or just one? I vaguely remember the dance teacher was "horrified" to see some of JonBenet's moves. She said she didn't teach JonBenet to be so provocative. This, in addition to whatever her daughter taught JBR in using 'props'. IOW, the duo coached JonBenet...but JonBenet wound up pulling moves they didn't teach her. Likewise, I vaguely remember a similar 'problem' with the dressmaker, where she was taken aback to see design changes to the costumes. Changes she didn't make. Patsy was very involved in the training and sexploitation of JonBenet. She was just as involved in covering up the murder. Pretty darn interesting, if you ask me. I hope Beckner really reads JW, Ruthee. Him, Kane and anyone else who have a stake in this investigation. That, and I hope they know what to do with this kind of information once they read it!!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Ruthee," Posted by BusDriver on 08:51:13 8/03/2000 your latest discovery has shocked me out of a serious bout of lurking. Your eye for detail is absolutely astonishing. Great job! I'd say that you have this case "sewn up"! BD [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Rather significant" Posted by Seeker on 08:56:40 8/03/2000 photo there. I wonder, does anyone know who chose the pictures for the book? Was it intentional so someone (yay Ruthee) would figure it out? Is it another Ramsey game? How come the BPD and DA's office didn't notice the similarity? Could that be part of the "new" evidence they want to interview them about? hmmmmmm... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Ruthee what a woman" Posted by Tricia on 09:17:30 8/03/2000 WOW! Ruthee you are amazing. How 'bout opening a detective agency! I'm sure you have some spare time. (lol) So how is Mr. Ruthee? Take care Tricia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "{{{Ruthee...I'm simply jaw-droppingly floored!}}}" Posted by Dunvegan on 09:26:25 8/03/2000 ...and the award for sharp-eyed sluthing goes to...Ruthee! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Ruthie.." Posted by rose on 09:41:24 8/03/2000 Do you have a sample of the garrote cord. I too thought of this back last fall. I tried to get a sample of the cord used in the murder and was never able to find one. The reason i thought of this, is that when my daughter was JB's age, I made her school clothes. When I saw the pictures of the rope used in the murder, I thought it looked like something i would use for cording on certain outfits I made for my daughter. People who sew sometimes use materials other than what they find in the sewing notions store, because they really work better in the project they are sewing than the products that are available in sewing notions. I am so glad you are investigating this and really believe you are onto something. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Great work Ruthee" Posted by kdubois2 on 09:38:45 8/03/2000 Does anyone know what happened to all of JB clothes? Did Patsy only keep the pageant outfits? If the police wanted to look at that outfit i am sure Patsy would tell them that she gave them to goodwill. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Very interesting. " Posted by Holly on 09:34:01 8/03/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 09:34:01, 8/03/2000 Does anyone remember the poster from last year who posted about frogs? She linked a site that had dressmaker's frogs made from this type of cord material. I think the link included something about variety of dressmaker cording. The example given was the Christmas cape JB wore in the parade. It was closed with white cord frogs. Another winner, Ruthee. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Ruthee" Posted by Twitch on 09:39:22 8/03/2000 When Mr. Ruthee is healed and hunting I wish you could spend some time telling us more of what Patsy is "saying" to you. Maybe a question and answer session? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Ruthee" Posted by Seashell on 10:06:50 8/03/2000 Great powers of observation. But again I'll have to say that this find, even if accurate, no more points to PR than it does continue the theme of JR framing her. If he was sly enuf to use her paintbrush, why not the rope/piping? Patsy simply cannot be so stupid as to commit the murder and cover and USE A MILLION OF HER THINGS AND THEN CALL 911 TO BOOT! John has overdone the framing - way overdone it. And that's what will get him in the end. He overly left himself out of it. If you look at this overall, it looks like Patsy committed the crime and then went to great lengths to frame HERSELF! The cord may have been in her sewing basket and it was one of the things taken out of the house that morning or lifted by Pam later. But who bought the cord/piping? The dressmaker? I can't see PR making her clothes. Have we ever heard that she likes to sew? Cunning, cunning cunning is this perp. If Patsy is the perp, then stupid, stupid stupid is this perp. Is Patsy stupid or cunning? Is John stupid or cunning? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Ruthee" Posted by canadiana on 10:27:09 8/03/2000 Great catch! darby...I sew a great deal as well (or did I should say) and I think the cord in the autopsy photos looks more like dressmakers cord than plain old twine, don't you? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Darby..." Posted by Pretzel on 10:49:34 8/03/2000 I agree with you! I believe the texture, thickness, etc. would vary from the "cording" used in the picture. I am sure that Patsy never did any sewing...even back in the Miss West Virginia days. She may have sewed a few buttons, etc., but it is more difficult to put piping on a garment. I thought she had most of JBR's clothes made or bought them. Pretzel [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "piping" Posted by Seashell on 11:18:39 8/03/2000 On my computer, the piping looks flatter than the garrOAT, but that may just be the photos. If we can assume correctly that PR didn't sew it on and the jacket wasn't purchased that way, we need to know who bought the piping and sewed it on and where any leftovers are. Why would a dressmaker give remmants of piping to a woman who didn't sew? I usually don't believe in coincidences but.....could this be a rare one? From the photos, I can't say FOR SURE that the garrotte and piping are identical. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Stunning... but..." Posted by Ayeka on 12:12:07 8/03/2000 I hate to be a wet blanket... If the picture of the garrotte on your page is truly from the Ramsey website, I distinctly remember reading that the photos of 'evidence' on their website were re-creations. Is this for sure the police photograph we're comparing it to? >Why would a dressmaker give remmants of piping to a woman who didn't sew?< I have little trouble believing that the seamstress would return unused portions of materials that a customer paid for. That, and because in her place, I wouldn't want it cluttering up my sewing room! *grin* Ayeka [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. " Ayeka" Posted by Ruthee on 12:47:55 8/03/2000 I have nothing vested in the cord comparison. It's very possible that the two articles don't match. It just "hit me" that they may. Patsy used all sorts of tape, paint and what have you for crafts and her art work. I also believe her sister sews. Thanks for taking a look at the page. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Holly.....and All" Posted by mee too on 11:54:25 8/03/2000 I too recall the thread re:the frogs and the cape...just can't recall the poster and her Mom..... The piece of cording (thought to used for the garrote) IMO was too flimsy to use as a braided trim......(I too sew) However who knows...It was reported Patsy and Pam Paugh would add doo-dads on several of JonBenet costumes.....Sewing glue perhaps to add trims...Of course who knows what ALL was in the Ramsey's bag/basket of tricks..... Someone should have asked Pam Griffin about the cord or braid...If she did sew this dress for JonBenet what type of cord was used... I suggested this in the past...don't know if anyone bothered to ask Pam Griffin...... ......(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "It was Me and my mom,Boots.." Posted by SDean1 on 20:22:53 8/03/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 20:22:53, 8/03/2000 I still have the link for the cord manufactured by the great foreign faction. http://business.vsnl.com/girrajmal/braids.htm Here about half way down are the frogs like the one on Jonbenet's cape. http://www.activetrimming.com/prod22.asp shown in this picture from maketoast.com Appears to be almost the same shot as the photo on the McReynolds' table http://www.maketoast.com/JBRamsey/jonbenet.htm just in case the picture doesnt work Sue edited to add the picture did not appear , scroll half way down at maketoasts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "The marks!" Posted by Seeker on 11:39:02 8/03/2000 The ink marks on the cord could have been for sewing measurments! Remember on the autopsy report it stated the exact distance from mark to mark? Could that be the original length the "seamstress" thought she would need for the piping on a collar. Could that be the first length for the pull tie on JonBenet's cape when she rode in the parade? Makes sense and Ruthee, the BPD would be well advised to put you on their payroll. Think of all the manhours they have wasted when all they needed was a "sharp" woman!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "canadiana" Posted by darby on 11:34:30 8/03/2000 I'm not expert on the type of rope used in the garrote, but I thought I had heard that it probably came from McGuckin hardware....or was that just the duct tape? Well, it couldn't hurt, it would NEVER hurt, to compare the garrote rope with the lapel piping. If they are a match, then we'd know where the balance of the rope went. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "In 9/99" Posted by Holly on 12:04:42 8/03/2000 I think mame posted a pic of the bag of white cord. We purchased it at McGuckins. I think I brought it to one of the NJ brunches. I'm sure I sent a length of it to Mee Too last fall. It is just like nylon shoestring. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "Holly......" Posted by mee too on 20:52:37 8/03/2000 Yes you did send me a length...I still have it......It does look like shoe sting ....The ends fray when cut..... The cord is vey strong IMO IMO The cord has many uses...Camping (Boy Scouts) Tent ties,tree houses..Crafting....Ties for clothing,science projets,sling for pic.. Tie for a pull toy (airplane)...garrote,etc. ......(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "darby" Posted by Twitch on 11:55:02 8/03/2000 The sad truth is Team Ramsey probably has already been alerted about this latest development. If the Rams did save JBR's things chances are they've found that outfit by now and disposed of it in some way. Of course, knowing the way BPD/DA works, they might not be too concerned about having to turn it over. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Well, Seashell" Posted by Holly on 11:32:43 8/03/2000 maybe Patsy asked for it in case CAP wanted to fashion a pair of matching "slave sandals". [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "flat cord?" Posted by Nandee on 11:51:09 8/03/2000 "The white cord is flattened and measures approximately 1/4 inch in width." This is a quote from the autopsy report. I never noticed it was a "flattened" cord. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "Re:ink marks....." Posted by mee too on 12:05:43 8/03/2000 I thought the ink mark/s on the garotte were made by the coroner....To mark where the knot had been ? or have I missed something...? .......(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Another possibility for Patsy and the cord" Posted by Holly on 12:02:02 8/03/2000 was through the Stephen Singular story about the kite. Randy Simons, the goofy photographer, got bent when he learned of the white cord. He had used similar cord to fashion a kite tail for a photo shoot. I think Pam Griffin gave the picture to AH. Patsy could, at that photo shoot, have asked Simons to use some, or just picked up a length in his studio and brought it home. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Nandee....Holly" Posted by mee too on 12:19:57 8/03/2000 Holly sent me a piece of the cord when she was in Boulder...It is flat and the ends ravel (sp?)... Holly...I had forgotten the kite cord story.....thanks for refreshing my memory..I still think Pam Griffin knows many things.....By the way..Off topic...However do WE know whether Pam Griffin went before the Grand Jury..If she didn't WHY not....Pam Griffin told Ann B. in the Vanity Fair Article..Fleet White has a "dark side"...White would not comment...what was Pam referring too....(check out the article when you find time..) ..........(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Mee too" Posted by Seeker on 12:17:50 8/03/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:17:50, 8/03/2000 no, he notated the marks on the report, he didn't make the marks. you can also find the complete 9 page autopsy report on http://www.thesmokinggun.com I hope I got that right... edited to add: ironing certain types of cord on a low setting can cause it to flatten out permanently. It's an old sewing tip. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "...another thing" Posted by Nandee on 12:37:00 8/03/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:37:00, 8/03/2000 I looked at the picture again and was struck by the fact that the lapels were so uneven. It surprises me that Patsy, the perfectionist, would pick that particular picture to put on the book jacket when there were so many "perfect" pictures to choose from. What are you trying to tell us Patsy?? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Brilliant deduction, Ruthee!" Posted by LizzieB on 12:40:59 8/03/2000 ...as usual. Ever since I first saw the picture of JonBenet on the back cover of DOI, it has struck me how similar the outfit she is wearing is to the one Patsy wore to the first press conference (May 1, 1997), which it turns out she also wore the day prior, in her first interrogation with the BPD. Could this have some significance for Patsy? Since she wore those double knotted scarves around her neck to several major interviews -- and also adopted a Virgin Mary motif to some of her clothing -- I just have to wonder if it could have some psychological meaning to her, whether unconscious or not. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Lizzie" Posted by Ruthee on 13:04:58 8/03/2000 I noticed the same thing but decided not to include it in the page to avoid confusion. I do believe this is another example of "like mother, like daughter." When I first started thinking about this and ask Nora for help with the pix in chat, it occurred to me that I was really stretching it this time. The more I looked at the book cover and thought about the way Patsy's mind works, the more I thought it could be possible. All kinds of things went through my mind. I thought about why JBR was on the back cover. I thought about the outfit she was wearing and how long before she died it was made. I wondered if I could be "dead" wrong about believing that Patsy is the one who chose the photo. I tried to remember the photo that John showed Larry King and I can't remember actually seeing it. I wondered if it is the same one. I thought about why we have not seen this photo before since the Ramseys would rather have it shown than a pageant photo. The photo looks professionally done and we both know that Judith Phillips didn't take it. Was it for school? Did Patsy have it taken in one of those mall shops just before Christmas to include with cards and letters? I have nothing to base this feeling on, but I believe the photo was taken shortly before JonBenet was murdered. Did Patsy let the photos sit in the shop and not pick them up until months later? I have to quit or I'll be typing into tomorrow night. Hope to see you in chat. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Well Nandee....." Posted by mee too on 12:35:44 8/03/2000 Jr and Patsy say the perp left clues...(G) Now which one of the Ramsey's chose the pic. for the book....Patsy never mentions ironing and clothes...Just rinsing items by hand in the sink....come to think of it LHP says Patsy would have the washer going or soaking JonBenet's panties ...however I have not heard/read LHP mention ironing.... The trim on the dress needed to be pressed IMO.... The Clues are out there....:-) .....(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Nandee" Posted by frankg on 12:39:33 8/03/2000 I think it's one of the prettiest pictures of JonBenet I've ever seen. In fact, it should have been on the front cover! I don't think Patsy's trying to tell us anything, just some over active imaginations here. JMO and stated with a heartfelt grin. So what is it now? So many here were so certain the receipt from the hardware store was proof of purchase of rope. Now, you want to link it to this piping. Does that mean your now not certain about the receipt and what it meant? You can't flip-flop here.. that's what makes a case fail. You have to know. Was it rope or was it piping? Fence sitters can be so annoying, huh? :-) Ruthee, certainly an interesting idea. I would like to know for sure the bodice was homemade and not store bought. I would then like to know who made it and when. And lastly, what did that individual do with the leftover materials. With all that in hand, this idea would be far more useful. And somehow I just can see someone returning unused piping to a multimillionaire. I think she could afford to buy a new package of piping the next time she needed it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Well frankg....." Posted by mee too on 13:01:14 8/03/2000 The cord could be piping used on the jacket as well as the cord used for the garrote.. When a seamstress does work for a client...it is NOT uncommon to return all fabric pieces/scraps and unused accessories.....(Not saying ALL clients would want them)..IMO ...Patsy and Pam Griffin were friends and JonBenet saved ALL sequiens she would find on the floor at pageants...(according to Pam Griffin)so who's to say they weren't returned to Patsy...... ......(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Hi, Frankg!" Posted by Edie Pratt on 12:49:19 8/03/2000 I agree, that was one of the prettiest pics of JB:-) How anyone could be mad at that face, is beyond comprehension. I also agree, it's unlikely a multimillionaire would save piping, but we did read that JB picked up wayward sequins. The dressmaker complained about that, and didn't find it "dripping cute", in the least. That's all I'm saying:-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "frankg" Posted by Nandee on 12:42:29 8/03/2000 What type of "flat" cord would be purchased at a hardware store? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "Now that I think of it" Posted by Seeker on 12:57:45 8/03/2000 that piping/cording looks similar to sailing equipment that I've seen. Nandee, there is flattened cord available out there. Although I don't know that McGuckins would necessarily carry it. Frankg, why would Patsy have to go to a hardware store at all? Why not have someone else do it unless she had a specific need for certain items that she didn't want anyone else to know about. (just an idea) LizzieB, Patsy LOVED the idea of JonBenet being exactly like her and had several matching outfits made so they could be dressed alike. Can you say "mini me"? I forget where I saw it, but in one place or another a friend of Patsy's talks about what a devoted mother Patsy was, and how much she loved JonBenet, "they were so close, they even wore many of the same outfits. It was so cute to see them together." Patsy is obsessive. Remember the housekeeper's comments about how Burke exhibited the same wetting of the bed routine until Patsy started focusing on JonBenet instead? How Burke got better and now JonBenet was the one wetting and defecating in her bed? Could Patsy have stressed and frightened her children so much that they were afraid to get out of bed at night, even to go to the bathroom? Just think about it, it could be... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "The cord.." Posted by frankg on 14:12:21 8/03/2000 Keep in mind my comments were meant to be taken somewhat lighthearted. All possibilities need to be followed up. My last paragraph was legit.. that is, we need to know more before we could say this idea has merit. Till then, it's either a great thought or a dead end (e.g., if the thing came from Bloomie's this whole discussion is moot). But as for the hardware store comment... if you recall back when that was a big discussion, we had posters who were certain the dept and price all but proved Patsy bought the rope. So now your asking me what type of "flat rope" would I buy and why would Patsy go there herself anyway? ..well, it wasn't my idea, it was a majority feeling here. My point is you can't run around saying this is it, this is it... here's the proof, and then along comes another theory and suddenly .. poof!.. no, this is it, this is it... here's the proof! Hardware store? what hardware store? Of course the reality is it could be one or the other or perhaps neither, but that's why I remain on the fence. Because no one is proving anything, only coming up with viable theories. Hi Edie :-) I agree.. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Lizzie B...." Posted by mee too on 14:02:33 8/03/2000 Wow thanks for the pics....I missed that before.....I too love this pic of JonBenet...I have never seen a mother so gunhoe on the mother and daughter outfits...IMO most mothers love seeing their daughters as beautiful little people...Not walking forty year olds..Of course most mothers/forty year olds I know enjoy being a mother rather than half of an act...... .......(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "uh Ruthee" Posted by Edie Pratt on 13:12:16 8/03/2000 I am so embarrassed, I forgot to say kudos for your excellent find! It does not escape me, that JB's blazer in that picture, eerily resembles the blazer PR wore to the CNN interview. C-a-reepy. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Hi Edie" Posted by Ruthee on 13:17:16 8/03/2000 Lizzie mentioned the same thing and I also thought about it. Liz a placed a pix of Patsy in that suit above. ps: Mr. R has surgery on Tuesday morning. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Hi Ruthee!" Posted by Edie Pratt on 13:22:28 8/03/2000 My prayers for Mr.R, and bless your heart,Ruthee, you've been through ALOT. I hope everything turns out better than before, somehow I think it will! Keep smileing, and sleuthing, you do those best:-)Edie [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "frankg" Posted by Seashell on 15:39:34 8/03/2000 Why is it so difficult for you to entertain the notion that having her photo on the BACK means a great deal psychologically? Is it becuz you're a man? :-) It means a great deal. It's a statement about who's really important in that family and who must have center stage no matter what. I'm surprised Patsy wasn't wearing her little jacket with piping. And of course, Burke, as usual, was nowhere to be seen - the invisible child - Burke who? As to who authorized what went on where, I'd vote for JR, the controller. Maybe he has copies hanging in his bathroom. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "Seashell" Posted by frankg on 07:57:47 8/04/2000 I take offense to that... I'm a very sensitive guy! :-) Don't get me wrong... I never agreed with the book (or the book signings), and I certainly don't agree with them once again putting themselves on the front cover while the true victim of all of this, JonBenet, get's second billing on the back. In the context of what the book is about this may be proper, but then, like I said... I never agreed with the book. And your comment about Burke is dead on. He too has become a victim in all of this, and even in the context of the book he should have been on the cover as well. I think this does say a lot about them and what their priorities are. My only point was I don't think the piping is what the garrote was made from and I don't think Patsy decided on using that picture to suggest or offer a clue to this. JMO, and only an opinion. Actually, I think it would be pretty cool if there was a connection and the BPD had missed it and one of our own had spotted it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "Ruthie, you are amazing>" Posted by ayelean on 17:42:09 8/03/2000 As I read this thread I had a few thoughts, now if CRS doesn't kick in maybe I'll remember them long enough to post. Patsy seems to have a thing for this piping trim. It seems I have seen many of her and JBR's outfits all outlined in contrasting colors. Talk about some kind of strong psychological indicator, what, I don't know, but it must mean something. You know, like her using all her exclamation points. She likes to emphasize things. I know buying this kind of trim in the fabric store would be more expensive than getting it in a hardware store, so because she had use for so much of it, it would be a coup to her way of thinking, of finding something so useful for a lot less just by buying it in a place like a hardware store. Remember Patsy hid expenses for her style from frugal John, that is why JBR picked up those sequins. Patsy spending money was a source of contention with John. Patsy is artsy and CRAFTY (in every sense of the word) so she would have an eye for using something designed for one use, to use in another project. Crafty people delight in this kind of talent. I have been known to sew a bit and if I was intent on using that cord for piping, I could make it work. The fact that it does not turn the corner of the lapel well suggests that it is not swedged into the seam, but tacked on later. The quality of the pictures Ruthie posted is excellent, a good lab could take those two pictures and enlarge them to the point that the fibers and construction could be positively identified as to being alike if they are. It was suggested in the past that the cord may have been used for a sling like apparatus to tote a canvas. I contend that Patsy planned this silencing of JBR for a long time. What if, (conjecture only here) she enlisted the sailors, John or Fleet to make this thing for her using the old paint brush for a handle, then she cut the thing off the canvas (with Burke's knife) and used it to wrap around JBR's neck. When either John or Fleet saw that thing, it would indeed make them both pale, and suspect each other or the one who tied the knots. Maybe that is the crux for the estrangement. Maybe that is why John immediately spoke of Fleet knowing how to tie knots. Imagine each of them seeing that garrOAT! Maybe this is what Arndt was seeing in John's eyes. Now the CRS kicks in. There was more but I'll have to think about it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "Now I remember>" Posted by ayelean on 17:57:18 8/03/2000 what I also wanted to say. That is so like Patsy to purposefully use that particular photo on the book! She is a number, that Patsy. She is saying, 'looky, looky, I am putting clues right in front of you and I am above being found out. I am so much smarter than the authorities.' Same goes for the scarf tied identical to JBR's neck wrap. There isn't a poster here that could stand in front of a mirror and tie that scarf on their neck in that fashion without vividly imagining JBR and how she died. That had to be an intentional act on Patsy's part. Just like the shampoo scene, the glove scene, and on and on. I don't think these are subconscious act in order to be caught. I think it is Patsy's nature that she is above being held responsible, and in her heart I think she thinks God condones her for the act, because it saved someone's reputation. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "The age of the photo" Posted by dawn on 18:20:42 8/03/2000 I think the photo must have been taken about a year before she died rather than right before the murder. Her hair is much longer in the photographs that were taken on Christmas morning. I wonder if it is one of the outfits that Pam made. She made a number of the pageant outfits. I don't think the lapels are uneven, but just the way it looks in the photograph. The left side just isn't flat against her, but is raised and pointing toward the camera which is why it looks so uneven. The coroner did make marks on the cord where he cut it near the knot. He placed a single line on one side and a double line on the other and noted that in the autopsy report. Are there other marks I'm not aware of? I think the cord and the piping are similar, but I don't think they match. The cord on the garotte looks wider and flatter to me. Aylean -- Wasn't that weird how Patsy had that thing tied around her neck like that? It gave me the creeps. Maybe she does that because Johnny likes it that way. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "Forgive me if this has been discussed..." Posted by A.K. on 01:52:54 8/04/2000 ...but doesn't McLean's book say that Patsy sewed her bridesmaid's dresses? Nice work, Ruthee! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE