Justice Watch Discussion Board "My Latest Shower Vision" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... My Latest Shower Vision, Ruthee, 07:59:53, 8/05/2000 Ruthee>>, ayelean, 08:23:31, 8/05/2000, (#1) Ayelean, Ruthee, 08:29:11, 8/05/2000, (#2) Yo, Ruthee!, Ginja, 08:46:22, 8/05/2000, (#3) duct taped, Matt, 09:05:46, 8/05/2000, (#6) Ah, Ruthee, Greenleaf, 08:49:14, 8/05/2000, (#4) I hate to throw, Florida, 08:50:27, 8/05/2000, (#5) Have to agree, Sylvia, 09:11:26, 8/05/2000, (#7) Ruthee, kdubois2, 09:18:01, 8/05/2000, (#8) ................................................................... "My Latest Shower Vision" Posted by Ruthee on 07:59:53 8/05/2000 Please wait until I'm dressed before you light the flame throwers. Way back in Feb of 97 I had these thoughts about artifical turf in the garage. I didn't connect the turf with anything in the house such as the train room. I thought it was there to practice golf green shots. Later I learned that the golf clubs were not stored in the garage. They were in the basement. I also learned that the turf was located in the basement. I still think that there may have been artifical turf in the garage. Maybe it was in a roll for storage. I don't know. When Denver and I went to the house on 15th street and I sat across the street on the curb, the tape entered my mind. I told her that I was sure the tape was already being used for something in the basement and some was removed from something to help stage the murder. I knew that what ever it was that played host to the tape was a long tube object such as a pipe. I looked for news of the tape being used for any of the ducting in the house or the basement. Nothing turned up. I have never been able to get this thought from my mind. Then I read that the brand of tape was identified. It is Sure Tape. The first thing I thought when I heard that name was "Sure Grip". I know that "Sure Grip" has nothing to do with the tape used, but it meant something to me. I know, what is the point? Well the point is that I think John Ramsey purchased the tape to wrap one or all of his golf club grips. The tape doesn't stick to anything else but it is an excellent item for wrapping around an object because it is made to stick to itself. I believe the piece of tape that was used to stage the murder scene was cut away from one of the golf club grips in one of John's or Patsy's club sets that stood in the basement. The killer didn't realize that there would be a problem getting the tape to stick to skin. I don't think the tape ever remained over JonBenet's mouth. I think it was tried, but didn't work. I don't think John Ramsey pulled the tape from JonBenet's mouth. I think it fell away from her body and rested on her clothes somewhere or beside her body. We only have John's word that he pulled the tape from her mouth. The remainder of the tape along with a golf club murder weapon walked out the door with Pam Paugh. ps: I really don't have shower visions. In fact I don't have "visions" at all. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Ruthee>>" Posted by ayelean on 08:23:31 8/05/2000 Do you have some of the tape? There is a specific product that is sold for golf club grips. I know John is frugal but using something else surely would cause some adverse effect to the grip of the club. Sounds like something I would do 'cause I'm not a golfer or a millionaire.LOL [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Ayelean" Posted by Ruthee on 08:29:11 8/05/2000 I can't argue my point. It's not based on logic. It's based on fleeting thoughts that pass through my mind. I'm sure you are right about a product that is made for that specific purpose. So when you get down to it, I can't enter into a debate on this. I have no evidence, no facts, no logic, no nothing.......just some thoughts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Yo, Ruthee!" Posted by Ginja on 08:46:22 8/05/2000 I want the shower vision! LOL I'm a golfer. John's a millionaire. Frugal, perhaps. But I'm not so sure that if he's a halfway serious golfer he'd opt for buying and taping his own grips. I agree with you, however, that the duct tape came off something else other than a fresh roll. As regards the tape being on JBR's mouth. In the very beginning of this case I argured the tape was never on her mouth because there was nothing to indicate it had been on her mouth/face, i.e., there was no sticky adhesive on her face and there was no indication that tiny facial hairs had been pulled, etc. Granted, the tape probably wasn't sticky enough for that, as Lurker demonstrated last year. But I vaguely remember something coming out of the investigation saying that not only were Patsy's fibers on the tape, but also skin cells (dna) from JonBenet. That's vague. Do you or anyone else remember hearing of her skin cells being on the tape? I don't think the tape was anything other than staging to make it look like she had been bound and gagged. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "duct taped" Posted by Matt on 09:05:46 8/05/2000 Ruthee: I always look for your threads first when I come to this forum. Your insight into what might have happened that night is, IMO, one of the best tools we have for discussing the case. During the early days of this case's investigation a friend of mine was in school studying to be a moritician. In the course of one of many conversations we had about rigor and etc the subject of the duct tape on her mouth came up. He told me that if she had been bound with duct tape at the time she died, or before she died, and had been bound for all of those hours while dead, then lifting the tape off her face should have literally ripped the skin off (and he gave me a case of just that). He said they (I assumed morticians, but maybe it was just the funeral home his family owned) referred to this as "skin slip." Based upon that conversation I have never believed the dramatic story of "ripping duct tape off her mouth." I do believe, like you, it was placed on initially but would not stick. I also believe the golf bag was used to store something incriminating to the killer. The bags were, as I recall, just outside this door, right? (can't remember) My guess is that either the killer or the other person helping stage, stuffed something quickly down in the bag and remembered it later, hence the urgency for Aunty Pow to retrieve the golf bag. Common sense dictated to them that most likely the golf bags would be taken into evidence and in so doing this evidence, whatever it was, would be found. BTW, does anybody know how close in proximity the art supply box and the golf bags were? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Ah, Ruthee" Posted by Greenleaf on 08:49:14 8/05/2000 Ruthee, I agree that if the same tape was used for JB's mouth and the golf clubs, Pam removing the clubs would have been vitally important to John. H O W E V E R, If the kind and type of tape would not stick properly to JB's mouth, why use it? Why did it become so important for the cover up? N O W.... This thought came to mind. Do any of us know when John became aware that a neighbor had heard a scream? Remember, there were a lot of people milling around the morning of the 26th, probably hearing all kinds of things. No telling who (it could have been a cop) who told John about the scream. TO C O N T I N U E... Could John's long trip to the basement been to look for tape to cover JB's mouth, to squelch any rumors about a scream? B E C A U S E... If the neighbor heard the scream, he and Patsy would have been expected to hear the scream. And, both he and Patsy had already told the cops that they didn't hear anything. THINK ABOUT THIS: I used to paint, and I sometimes framed my own pictures. In my wildest dreams, I cannot imagine my husband, looking for duct tape, take down one of my pictures and look for tape on the wire backing. H O W E V E R, I can imagine, that the first thing a man would go to, to look for tape, would be something he knew about...his golf clubs! My guess would be, that under these dire circumstances, it was absolutely imperative to John that he find SOMETHING, ANYTHING, to cover JB's mouth. So what if it didn't stick properly. It was better than nothing, and, besides, HE WOULD BE THE ONE TO FIND HER, and he would crumble the tape up; pretending he pulled it from her mouth. By golly, Ruthee, I think you've got it! Amazing! Simply amazing! I know of NO ONE who has thought of the tape on those clubs being meaningful. Please take another musing shower soon! Seeing old Pam carting those clubs out, in the dead of winter, should have, at least, made the BPD a wee bit curious. What did they do? They drove Pam home and bought her a happy meal at McDonald's. What great sleuths we have here, at JW. God bless Ruthee and every poster who expends time and energy trying to obtain justice for one of our little murdered fellow citizens. Greenleaf [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "I hate to throw" Posted by Florida on 08:50:27 8/05/2000 cold water in a warm shower but I play golf and I would never use duct tape on a club grip. No other golfer would either. The idea of Sure Grip (and other brands of actual grip tape for golf clubs and tennis racquets) is to be a little tacky on the outside and to help absorb sweat from your hands. Most grips have little holes or ridges on them to make them grip better. Duct tape would do neither. Here in Florida in the summer we change most of us have to change our gloves several times a round in the summer because they get so damp. If duct tape gets the least bit wet it would be slippery and your grip would slip. Trust me on this one, there is nothing worse than a slippery grip!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Have to agree" Posted by Sylvia on 09:11:26 8/05/2000 it doesn't sound logic to use duct tape on golf clubs, however I also feel the duct tape was not sticking as well. So maybe it didn't come from the golf clubs, but it most certainly came from something else. And since the house was emptied by dear aunt Pam there is no way of telling where it came from. But indeed, there must have been something with the golf clubs, that is for sure. Why else bother about them so much a day after your daughter is murdered. So what was so important, it could have been that the rest of the rope etc. was hiden in there, or somehow the duct tape was still connected to the golf bag for what ever reason, or did the clubs match the head injury? I don't know, I only know it is ridiculous to worry about golfclubs the day after your daughter is viciously murdered, unless....... Sylvia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Ruthee" Posted by kdubois2 on 09:18:01 8/05/2000 I'am not so sure that the tape would be used as a grip on a golf club, but i think that it was in JR golf bag. I just can't see JR requesting his golf clubs right after his daughters murder unless he had something hidden in the golf bag. He couldn't very well have carted them out when the police asked he to vacate the house. Golf bag are pretty heavy, so why would he request Pam to get them? This has allways bothered me. I think your visions are right on. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE