Justice Watch Discussion Board "PANDORA'S BOX?" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... PANDORA'S BOX?, Greenleaf, 14:18:28, 8/05/2000 timeframe, Taylor, 14:27:43, 8/05/2000, (#1) Taylor, Greenleaf, 14:42:47, 8/05/2000, (#2) What's Next, New York Lawyer, 14:48:15, 8/05/2000, (#3) NYL, Greenleaf, 14:59:35, 8/05/2000, (#5) Great, Orsen, 15:06:19, 8/05/2000, (#6) AYEEEEE!, Jellyjaws, 14:57:33, 8/05/2000, (#4) Have at it, Jellyjaws...LOL, Greenleaf, 15:13:53, 8/05/2000, (#7) This week I've had a crash course, fiddler, 15:25:22, 8/05/2000, (#8) HA!, Jellyjaws, 15:29:32, 8/05/2000, (#9) Orsen/ fiddler/ JellyJaws, Greenleaf, 16:00:43, 8/05/2000, (#10) Greenie, Greenie..,, Jellyjaws, 16:36:41, 8/05/2000, (#13) here's a thought, Taylor, 16:16:58, 8/05/2000, (#11) Taylor, Greenleaf, 16:56:17, 8/05/2000, (#15) Greenie, no, a blow FOR, fiddler, 16:24:30, 8/05/2000, (#12) Taylor, Ribaldone, 16:47:23, 8/05/2000, (#14) Jellyjaws, Greenleaf, 18:45:25, 8/05/2000, (#16) Greenleaf..., Jellyjaws, 19:10:42, 8/05/2000, (#17) Ribaldone/ NYL, Greenleaf, 05:51:32, 8/06/2000, (#18) GJ records, Ginja, 08:24:27, 8/06/2000, (#19) ................................................................... "PANDORA'S BOX?" Posted by Greenleaf on 14:18:28 8/05/2000 The only thing keeping Alex Hunter from being indicted for obstruction of justice is the "Pandora's Box" of the Grand Jury Secrets. He's sitting on it, like an old mother hen. We can only imagine what's in that Grand Jury record. We can only imagine what has been deleted from that Grand Jury record. We have a right to imagine anything we please, sans the record itself. We can make our own deductions, from the behavior of the people involved; namely, Alex Hunter. We can make our own deductions, from the behavior of the defense lawyers and the Ramseys themselves. Now, we have a woman who testified before the Grand Jury. She wants her testimony made public. This woman is important, because she knows the Ramseys and she also knows what she testified to and how she was treated; i.e., who questioned her and what she was questioned about. She also must have been able to determine something about the demeanor of the grand jurors. Her story is crucial. If New York Lawyer's legal request to have the ban lifted on the Grand Jury testimony in this case, is granted, it will open a PANDORA'S BOX OF EVIDENCE. Evidence that Alex Hunter, and his ilk, has been sitting on all this time. People, I believe that NYL's current legal briefs are the most important single development in this case, thus far. We can sit here and voice our opinions from now 'til doomsday, but it will be the Courts which will settle all this. The action is in the Courts. Judges and Juries will assess and determine. That is the law. Not for one moment do I mean to negate the voices of the people. Judges are, after all, the servants of the people. And, we are the people. There is no denying that. So, to all you Judges, in this convoluted case, be forewarned: We, the people, DEMAND JUSTICE. One of our little fellow citizens has been slaughtered and we DEMAND JUSTICE. Thus far, it seems like everything imaginable has been done to OBSTRUCT JUSTICE. The Boulder D.A. has not done his job. We DEMAND to know why. He was recently at Orange Beach, as guest speaker at the Alabama State D.A.'s annual meeting. He spoke on the JonBenet Ramsey case; all the while, tooting his own horn. He just DOESN'T GET IT!!! Public officials, like Alex Hunter, give the entire Justice System of the great United States Of America a black eye. Janet Reno, where are you? Why haven't you initiated an investigation into this matter? Mr. Governor of Colorado, where are you? What happened to all your campaign promises, in reference to this case? It looks now like the ball is in the corner of Darnay Hoffman, the New York Lawyer. I don't know him. I don't know what he's all about, but I can tell you, he is ON TRACK NOW! It may turn out that he and he alone brought the Boulder justice system to its knees. Praise the Lord and get the handcuffs ready; one pink, the other blue. Greenleaf [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "timeframe" Posted by Taylor on 14:27:43 8/05/2000 Perhaps I missed it, but when does the UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO have to respond to this? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Taylor ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Taylor" Posted by Greenleaf on 14:42:47 8/05/2000 I do not know, Taylor. Perhaps NYL can enlighten us. You cannot imagine how surprised I was to find out, subsequent to starting this thread, that there is an excellent web sit, dedicated to Child Abuse, and Prevention Thereof. Please check it out. It's called "PANDORA'S BOX." http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/index.htm Greenleaf [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "What's Next" Posted by New York Lawyer on 14:48:15 8/05/2000 Alex Hunter will have 20 days from when he is personally served with the complaint (sometime this week)to reply. You can expect his responsive pleadings some time after Labor Day. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "NYL" Posted by Greenleaf on 14:59:35 8/05/2000 Now, isn't that special; "Just after Labor Day." It may very well be his last EMPLOYED labor day. Thanks, Mr Hoffman. You are lighting up my life today. Keep at it. Make tomorrow just as bright and hopeful. Godspeed! Greenleaf [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Great" Posted by Orsen on 15:06:19 8/05/2000 post Greenleaf! Justice was never given a chance in this case, right from day one, Pandora's Box-ing Day. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "AYEEEEE!" Posted by Jellyjaws on 14:57:33 8/05/2000 Greenleaf, get a grip! You, girl, sound like me in high dudgeon! I know what you mean; the whole bunch of them, especially the DA's office, is in LA LA land, if not currupt. When I got as angry as you sound, you threw a pie in my face! Just smile, Greenleaf, and put your face up to the screen. Little Jellyjaws has a wonderful Boston Cream to cool you off! Love You, JellY! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Have at it, Jellyjaws...LOL" Posted by Greenleaf on 15:13:53 8/05/2000 Humbly yours, Greenleaf p.s. I only ask, Jelly, that you pray that your pie doesn't miss first go around, as I have a connon on my front porch. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "This week I've had a crash course" Posted by fiddler on 15:25:22 8/05/2000 in the vital importance of our Bill of Rights. I've been the victim of a cyber-stalker, who apparently did not like a post I had made six months ago in the guestbook of a biologist's website. This person obtained my e-mail address, and apparently decided that I was a dangerous anti-Christian menace to the nation, judging from her furious, insulting, non-stop e-mails to me. It took me six days of forwarding her obnoxious, disgusting, harassing garbage to AOL for them to FINALLY block this person from my e-mail. It was truly frightening, though. For the crime of expressing my thoughts, this person decided I deserved to be reviled and killed. If NYL succeeds with this suit, he'll have struck a blow for First Amendment rights. And those are more endangered than I ever thought. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "HA!" Posted by Jellyjaws on 15:29:32 8/05/2000 Go for it, Greenie. I'm typing from a safe spot under my desk! Nyaah, Nyaah! So's your old man!!!!!!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Orsen/ fiddler/ JellyJaws" Posted by Greenleaf on 16:00:43 8/05/2000 Thank you kindly, Orsen, for those kind words. fiddler, you wrote: "If NYL succeeds with this suit, he'll have struck a blow for First Amendment rights. And those are more endangered than I ever thought." Do I understand you correctly, fiddler. You think a win will endanger our first admendment rights? How so? Jelly, Jelly, Jelly! Now, cool down, girl. LOL! Please, please tell me when did I ever "throw a pie in your face?" I promise that I cannot imagine ever having done so. I have always enjoyed your posts; honestly I have. I am not a pie thrower, although I do get annoyed from time to time. I am always open to debate. I can never remember being annyoed with you. Gotta go. My cannon needs loading, just in case. LOL. Greenleaf p.s. my bones are brittle, so please jump on them softly. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Greenie, Greenie..," Posted by Jellyjaws on 16:36:41 8/05/2000 No, no you never threw a pie in my face in anger! But, remember when I was just a "Newbie"? I was klutzing around, as we "Newbies" tend to do. I was hoping to post on a particular thread, but a big conflict developed, or at least I thought so. So little, old "Newbie" me crawled to safety to your thread where my friend V_p was. You told me to, "Come out, Come out wherever you are!" and you smashed me with a pie! Then, in your inimitable style, you flashed a picture of the Microsoft founder, Bill Gates, with a pie in his face and said something about Rule #1. Remember now? See, Greenleaf, we newcomers really do learn. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love, Jelly! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "here's a thought" Posted by Taylor on 16:16:58 8/05/2000 If the secret Atlanta info sharing fest results in Alex permitting an arrest, would this further seal the GJ testimony pending a trial? If Alex backs an arrest does he leave town with honor? This means more speaking engagements, etc. Who is going to want to hear what Alex has to say if the new DA arrests and convicts someone of this murder? Do ya think maybe Fleet has been silent because he wants to be a credible witness at a trial? Did you ever wonder if the plan were to fly the family to Michigan to hide from the terrorists? Was JonBenet in the suitcase for a time? Were tests run on the suitcase? Can't remember if ST said anything about it. For some reason was the plan changed mid-morning by John thus the hour disappearance? There is another Taylor who posts on a Candy Rose, that's not me. I'm the Taylor who has visited the great city of Parkersburg a time or two. I only post here once in a while. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Taylor ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Taylor" Posted by Greenleaf on 16:56:17 8/05/2000 You wrote: "If the secret Atlanta info sharing fest results in Alex permitting an arrest, would this further seal the GJ testimony pending a trial?" Good question, Taylor. Maybe NYL will come back and answer. "If Alex backs an arrest does he leave town with honor?" IMHO, Taylor, even if Alex is nominated for canonization by the Pope, he will not leave town "with honor." "This means more speaking engagements, etc. Who is going to want to hear what Alex has to say if the new DA arrests and convicts someone of this murder?" Nobody, of course. I cannot imagine who would want to hear him now. I wonder WHO had him speak before the Alabama D.A.'s Association recently? I live in Alabama and the newspapers, all over the State, roundly criticized the D.A.'s for giving themselves, at taxpayers expense, a luxurious vacation on the beach. I did not read any local criticism of Hunter being there. "Do ya think maybe Fleet has been silent because he wants to be a credible witness at a trial?" Yes. And I also think he is being quiet, at the advice of his lawyers, as perhaps a law suit against the Rams is in the making. "Did you ever wonder if the plan were to fly the family to Michigan to hide from the terrorists?" Say what? JR wasn't studying "terrorists." He wanted to fly to Atlanta "on business." Remember? "Was JonBenet in the suitcase for a time? Were tests run on the suitcase? Can't remember if ST said anything about it." Taylor, the contents of the suitcase were apparently tested, as it was "reported" that DNA from JAR was on a blanket, inside that suitcase. (Like so many other things, I don't know how reliable that report was.) Whether JB was ever in the suitcase is, to me, doubtful. Others, who know more about it might possibly answer you. " For some reason was the plan changed mid-morning by John thus the hour disappearance?" I personally think, Taylor, that JR was, on the 26th, playing it by (frantic) ear. Others can give you a better read on this. "There is another Taylor who posts on a Candy Rose, that's not me. I'm the Taylor who has visited the great city of Parkersburg a time or two. I only post here once in a while." Well, welcome, Taylor. Others, with a much greater knowledge of this case than I, will probably answer you more satisfactory. Thanks for posting here. Greenleaf p.s. Watch out for JellyJaws. She has pies and will travel. LOL! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Greenie, no, a blow FOR" Posted by fiddler on 16:24:30 8/05/2000 First Amendment rights, not against them! NYL is a good guy in this! My point was just that, unfortunately, our rights seem to be always under attack, and therefore our defenders have to strike blows in our defense. I wish no blows, of any kind on either side, were necessary. But unfortunately, they seem to be. Given that, I say, Go NYL!!! There can be no informed democracy without freedom of speech!!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Taylor" Posted by Ribaldone on 16:48:22 8/05/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:48:22, 8/05/2000 it is my understanding that the Ramsey's arrest would UNSEAL grand jury testimony. I believe the ruling says that all grand jury related material is sealed until an indictment is handed down. So if they're arrested, the jig's up for Alex. I personally don't believe that JonBenet was put into a suitcase because I doubt she would fit. She may have been put in one to see if she would fit and then taken out, but she couldn't have been inside a suitcase for long (if at all) because she was stretched out with arms above head when rigor mortis set it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Jellyjaws" Posted by Greenleaf on 18:45:25 8/05/2000 Yes, I do remember the gif I put up, ref. Bill Gates having a pie thrown into his face, but I have no recollection of that post being threatening to anyone, least of all you. Geeze, I'm sorry, Jelly. Really I am. I think I was just trying to be silly. I have never had any animosity toward you. Scouts' honor. I'll put up my cannon for tonight. Tomorrow is another day. Now, put away your pies and let's be friends. O.K.? Back to business. JfJB Greenleaf [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Greenleaf..." Posted by Jellyjaws on 19:10:42 8/05/2000 Oh my goodness, Greenleaf, your pie was FUNNY from beginning to end. I was just a little "Newbie" at the time, and you make my day! NO, NO, NO! Greenleaf, you have it all wrong! Don't apologize, for heaven's sake. Your pie was the best joke of the evening. Ask V_p! She'll remember the context. Anyhow, rest easy for the night knowing that your "pie in the face" humor brought a lot of laughs. It was all in such good fun, and you added to it. See you tomorrow. Love, Jelly! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Ribaldone/ NYL" Posted by Greenleaf on 05:51:32 8/06/2000 Ribaldone, you wrote: "it is my understanding that the Ramsey's arrest would UNSEAL grand jury testimony. I believe the ruling says that all grand jury related material is sealed until an indictment is handed down. So if they're arrested, the jig's up for Alex." Do you know that for a fact, Ribaldone? I, for one, had thought just the opposite;i.e., an arrest (and/or arrests) would keep the GJ testimony sealed, until after the trial. If what you say is true, the "jig" would certainly be up for old Alex. NYL, is it true that arrests would automatically unseal the GJ records? If you have discussed this before, I apologize. LHP, along with her NYL, may well be the catalyst needed to speed up the wheels of justice. It's certainly the most promising bit of hope we've had, since the murder. IMHO, of course. This is, FWIW, my prediction: If the RST and the D.A.'s office remains relatively quiet, in ref. to the LHP-NYL legal brief, then you can bet that they are terrified. If they come out yapping all over the media, you can bet that they are convinced that this, too, will go nowhere fast; putting the prosecution back at square one. Regardless, I believe it best that they keep their yaps shut. Greenleaf [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "GJ records" Posted by Ginja on 08:24:27 8/06/2000 They're sealed until one of two things happen: 1. Indictment issues. 2. GJ decides NOT to indict and then must issue a report. If the BPD pulled a GA arrest, they'd come back to CO where an indictment would issue, therefore unsealing the records. Those records wouldn't issue publicly, per se. They'd be released by request to the parties as the Court felt necessary to the case and discovery. In a local case where the indictment had issued and arrests made, we petitioned the court to release the grand jury records to prepare for trial via discovery. We were denied the records (defendants) and appealed the decision. The State Supreme Court found in our favor and released relevant records. Don't forget, there are a lot of people involved in this, including those witnesses who gave testimony...reluctantly. They, too, have rights and they only spoke to the gj on the condition they be protected and their testimony not released to the suspects. They were thrown under the bus once. Releasing their testimony could cause that bus to come around again...only next time, they might not survive. LHP's suit, if she won, could set a precedent that would set back future investigations. If the state can't guarantee protections to reluctant witnesses, those reluctant witnesses will bypass the system and take the fifth or any other 'right' that will protect them from future harm or harrassment. IOW, they won't talk. The Grand Jury didn't vote. Why? Do you really think that if there was evidence of culpability, the State would have sat on it and closed the hearings? More importantly, do you think the grand jurors would have gone along with it? Remained silent, knowing there was enough evidence to prove culpability and try the Ramseys? Would you, if you were a juror, stand by and watch all of this, knowing the evidence was there, but the DA was a chickenshit and didn't want to go forward? Don't forget...it was they, the jurors...who asked for the gag order. They were ready to indict in April...but then other witnesses were allowed in to present evidence of intruders, pedophiles and serial killers not related in any way, shape or form to the Ramseys. Those witnesses were allowed in, but not without a court battle. The DA fought that testimony and lost, thus forcing the State to allow the grand jury to become an adversarial process rather than the investigative tool of the prosecutor. It's quite possible the State didn't allow the GJ to vote for fear they'd go with a no true bill. Be careful what you ask for. The true meaning of Pandora's Box is lifting that lid thinking you'll find one thing, only to get another. This is a Pandora's Box. I'd think twice before lifting it's lid. Justice may not be inside. And once the lid's off, there's no putting it back on. Personally, I'm not willing to take that risk. Okay gang, flame on! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE