Justice Watch Discussion Board "New to Forum - Convince me the Rams are guilty..." [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... New to Forum - Convince me the Rams are guilty..., Shy-Ann, 17:34:21, 8/10/2000 Briefly, v_p, 17:37:47, 8/10/2000, (#1) Brieflier, Lacey, 17:43:06, 8/10/2000, (#2) New too, Isabella, 17:44:29, 8/10/2000, (#3) Here's a few from Thomas' Book, Ribaldone, 18:20:08, 8/10/2000, (#6) 30. 31. etc...., Fernandina, 19:48:21, 8/11/2000, (#33) Shy-ann, it would help if, ayelean, 17:51:35, 8/10/2000, (#4) Prove to you they're guilty?, Country Girl, 18:14:24, 8/10/2000, (#5) there is no reason, Longhorn, 18:32:08, 8/10/2000, (#7) briefly, pinker, 18:56:40, 8/10/2000, (#10) Longhorn, Ribaldone, 18:45:22, 8/10/2000, (#8) Thanks Ribaldone, Shy-Ann, 20:57:55, 8/10/2000, (#12) How to know the Rams are guilty, DrTee, 18:51:29, 8/10/2000, (#9) New to Forum - Convince me the Rams are Innocent, FT, 19:53:46, 8/10/2000, (#11) Rams ARE Innocent, ToppCat, 21:14:24, 8/10/2000, (#14) Nurse Rachet..., PegB, 22:01:42, 8/10/2000, (#16) LOL, Dr. Tee! , Harmony, 21:11:01, 8/10/2000, (#13) Harmony, FT, 21:58:37, 8/10/2000, (#15) The most compelling reason, docg, 23:06:46, 8/10/2000, (#19) Guilt?, Aurora, 22:24:27, 8/10/2000, (#18) FT, Harmony, 22:15:54, 8/10/2000, (#17) Abundant Reasoning, Starling, 00:05:14, 8/11/2000, (#20) No touchy no feely..., Fernandina, 19:42:51, 8/11/2000, (#32) And Why, Paralegal, 10:05:11, 8/12/2000, (#51) Shy-Ann--what do you mean,, fiddler, 00:32:27, 8/11/2000, (#21) Hi Fiddler, Shy-Ann, 01:30:50, 8/11/2000, (#22) Shy-Ann--you're welcome to , fiddler, 02:52:54, 8/11/2000, (#23) Starling, pinker, 05:20:47, 8/11/2000, (#24) The Ramseys, tx_sunshine, 09:28:43, 8/11/2000, (#25) Aurora, FT, 09:35:07, 8/11/2000, (#26) Shy-Ann , Ruthee, 11:01:00, 8/11/2000, (#28) Ruthee., Holly, 05:38:56, 8/12/2000, (#41) Guilty?, RiverRat, 10:01:45, 8/11/2000, (#27) Aurora, DrTee, 11:14:21, 8/11/2000, (#29) Shy-Ann, rico, 15:32:30, 8/11/2000, (#30) Of kidneys and other organs (not Burke's), Seashell, 16:54:50, 8/11/2000, (#31) LMAO Seashell, v_p, 19:50:50, 8/11/2000, (#34) Shy-Ann, , Venus, 21:32:51, 8/11/2000, (#35) Who I really am!!, Shy-Ann, 22:26:46, 8/11/2000, (#36) Chased another one away, eh?, mary99, 00:23:39, 8/12/2000, (#37) Chased another one away?, Venus, 00:58:53, 8/12/2000, (#38) DocG, A.K., 03:43:23, 8/12/2000, (#39) There is something hinky, pinker, 05:18:15, 8/12/2000, (#40) I think "Shy Ann" is..., Greenleaf, 06:42:56, 8/12/2000, (#42) I can tell you what she's not, Venus, 06:58:36, 8/12/2000, (#43) SHY-Ann's tone of voice, Twitch, 07:23:08, 8/12/2000, (#45) Who cares who, Ribaldone, 08:55:45, 8/12/2000, (#46) Well Said Ribaldone, Paralegal, 10:20:08, 8/12/2000, (#53) Well Jonesey, Ribaldone, 09:42:04, 8/12/2000, (#49) Dear Ribaldone, Greenleaf, 09:51:43, 8/12/2000, (#50) Greenleaf, Ribaldone, 10:21:12, 8/12/2000, (#54) Stay at home mom?, DrTee, 10:15:42, 8/12/2000, (#52) ................................................................... "New to Forum - Convince me the Rams are guilty..." Posted by Shy-Ann on 17:34:21 8/10/2000 I have a hard time believing they are guilty, can you guys briefly give me the facts, reasons, your opinions why they are guilty. Thanks! [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Briefly" Posted by v_p on 17:37:47 8/10/2000 Patsy did it. (IMO) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Brieflier" Posted by Lacey on 17:43:06 8/10/2000 ITRI. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "New too" Posted by Isabella on 17:44:29 8/10/2000 I'm new to the forum too so why don't you convince me they're not guilty. I signed up for the forum a few weeks ago but every time I was going to post things got ugly so I was afraid to jump in. I decided to just jump in when the forum reopened so here I am. I think the Ramseys are probably guilty up to their eyeballs. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Here's a few from Thomas' Book" Posted by Ribaldone on 18:24:52 8/10/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:24:52, 8/10/2000 1. Patsy's jacket fibers on the duct tape (which was left in the basement when John carried JB upstairs -- Patsy was never in the basement that morning -- at least not AFTER she killed, or helped to kill, JonBenet). Page 254 2. CONFIRMED PRIOR SEXUAL ABUSE!! Page 227 3. FBI Child Abduction and Serial Killer United noted only one case in which a child was murdered and left in the home WITH a ransom note. Page 216 4. Duct tape has no tongue imprint which shows it was put on AFTER death. Page 288 5. Ramsey's lied about Burke being asleep when they made the 911 call. His voice is heard in the background. Page 298 From pages 308-309 (some are paraphrased with added comments): 6. Patsy said the bedroom door was closed, but she never closed her door at night. Yet she didn't open it to check on her. The intruder would have had to close the door while carrying a struggling JonBenet unless the head blow was struck in the bedroom and if that's true, why did he use the duct tape? Why would an intruder close the door behind him? Answer: He wouldn't 7. Intruder latched the obscure cellar door. Why? 8. Intruder would never wipe down the body, redress it, wrap her in a blanket, place her favorite Barbie nightie next to her, and put her new Christmas jewelery on her. 9. Red heart drawn on her hand (Patsy was known to do this). 10. Wrists tied loosely -- no restraint -- shows staging. 6. Autopsy report indicates JB ate pineapple before her death. Ramseys deny this but Patsy's fingerprints were found on a pineapple bowl left on the dining room table. 7. The intruder would have had to know the dog was not home that night. 8. Had to navigate silently through a dark and VERY confusing OCCUPIED home without making any noise. 9. Intruder forgot to bring materials required to commit the kidnapping, but remembered to wear gloves to foil fingerprints on the note. 10. The flashlight AND BATTERIES were wiped clean of prints. If the intruder wore gloves, no need to wipe the flashlight. AND, the intruder would not need to wipe the batteries since he would never have touched them. 11. Of 73 people tested, Patsy was the only person who could not be eliminated as the note-writer. Some handwriting and psycholinguists experts have stated plainly -- PATSY WROTE THE NOTE. 12. Kidnappers bring the ransom note with them (from FBI). And they DON'T leave the body behind! The parents wouldn't know she was already dead so the kidnapper could still collect the money. 13. Neighbor reportedly heard a scream, but the family did not. 14. Police found a practice note on the same notepaid, in Patsy's handwriting. 15. Patsy's paintbrush was used to make the garrotte. 16. Parents say JonBenet was sleeping when they arrived home and never awoke. Burke told police she was awake and walked upstairs with her mother right behind her. 17. Very small ransom demand -- how would a "small foreign faction" divy up $118,000? 18. Mystery footprint in the cellar was likely made by a cop. Hi-Tech boots are the most common footwear for police officers. 19. John and Patsy's behavior toward each other that morning. Didn't speak to each other or make any effort to comfort one another. Remained in separate rooms the entire time. 20. Fleet White looked in the cellar room earlier that morning and didn't see JonBenet's body. 21. John was on the phone with his pilot within an hour of finding his daughter's body, trying to get a flight out of town. 22. Contaminant caused DNA to be unreadable. It does not clear the Ramseys -- it cannot be matched to ANYONE because it's unreadable. Page 305 23. Would an intruder have been so unprepared for this most high risk of crimes that the individuals representing the "small foreign faction" forgot to bring the necessary equipment to carry out the crime? 24. Would an intruder have been able to murder the child in such a violent fasion but so quietly that her parents and brother (on the same floor) slept through the event, despite a scream loud enough to be heard by a neighbor across the street? 25. Would an intruder have taken the pains to compliment John Ramsey's business in the rambling, sometimes irrelevant three-page ransom note, all while in the home and vulnerable to discovery. 25. The intruder would have had to know many intimate details about the Ramseys -- as noted in the ransom note. The amount of John's bonus, they are from the south, Patsy's pet phrases/word (such as "and hence"), and Patsy's style of writing and over-use of puncutation marks. 26. Burke said he heard loud noises that night and both his parents came into his room (at different times) and he preteneded to be asleep. (I think this one was from PMPT) 27. Ramseys have made MANY inconsistent statements and told outright lies. 29. Ramseys refused to cooperate with the police from the first day. I'm sure there's more. Sorry it wasn't brief! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "30. 31. etc...." Posted by Fernandina on 19:48:21 8/11/2000 30 Patsy wearing the same clothes as the night before -she never went to sleep! Come on-NO one puts on the same darn clothes-expecially her-unless it was sweats or something. I think this is one of the biggest things here. 31. leaving Burke in bed as they said they did-if your kid was kidnapped you would not leave the other alone in another part of the house.The guy may still be in the house-I would have grabbed him and ran out of the house. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Shy-ann, it would help if" Posted by ayelean on 17:51:35 8/10/2000 you told us WHY you don't believe them guilty. What books have you read? How long have you followed the case? I have a hard time believing anyone NOT believing them guilty. The questions only seems to be which one is guiltier. Spontaneous, vs spontaneous->intentional, vs Premeditated. Sex abuse vs anger. Motivation by Patsy or John. Accidental by any of the three (+?) in the house. A very simple answer to your question would be: Because the ransom note is a phony, and only the Rams knew the things to use in the Ransom note. Even by Patsy's own admission, whoever wrote (printed) the ransom note killed JBR. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Prove to you they're guilty?" Posted by Country Girl on 18:14:24 8/10/2000 Lack of cooperation. They claim they cooperated with the BPD because they count every minute the authorities were in the house from the time they called 911 to when John found the body as cooperation. Inconsistant statements. John's statements about reading to JBR, not reading to JBR. The confusing stories about finding the note; reading or not reading the entire note. John on his hands and knees on the floor reading the note. Right. Leaving Burke upstairs alone when there may have been a killer still hiding in the house. I know many people say we cannot find guilt based upon behavior; however if you just found a note telling you your daughter was kidnapped, would you really leave your son upstairs asleep? Would you not wake him up and ask him what he may have heard or seen? Would you even let him out of your sight? Burke's voice on the enhanced 911 tape; parents swear he was asleep the entire time. Yet Burke is taken to the White's home without even questioning why the police are there and why they aren't leaving to go to Michigan. Wanting to leave Boulder immediately after the body was discovered. John Ramsey didn't seem to worry about JBR's body still on the floor when he wanted to fly to Atlanta; yet he makes much of the BPD wanting to hold her body until they got an interview. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "there is no reason" Posted by Longhorn on 18:32:08 8/10/2000 to "convince" anyone of anything. Each of us has to come to that with research, discussions, and their own conclusions. What convinces one person is not enough to convince another. I'm not convinced who did what, but I feel pretty certain the Ramseys are involved. My coming to that conclusion cannot be put in a few sentences or a sound bite, it comes from over three years of reading and following this case. It's simply my conclusion at this stage. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "briefly" Posted by pinker on 19:02:31 8/10/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:02:31, 8/10/2000 The Ramseys have given different versions to many integral events from what she was last seen wearing, the bedtime regime, to their own actions that morning. The truth is easy to remember correctly it's a staged lie that gives lee way for inconsistances. Funny thing I forgot to add is that some evidence that should have been there was not. "The criminal usually returns to the scene of the crime"-armchair detectives 101. The Ramseys returned vicariously via Pam and removed what may prove to be a smoking gun. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Longhorn" Posted by Ribaldone on 18:50:13 8/10/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:50:13, 8/10/2000 what you said is absolutely true and thanks for saying it. However, it's quite probable that Shy-Ann just used the word "convince" loosely. I interpreted her question as more along the lines of, "Why do you believe they're guilty?" or "What do you believe points to their guilt?" That type of thing. Both valid questions from someone who has not come to the same conclusion as many of us have. If I believed someone to be guilty or if I believed something to be "a good thing" and the vast majority of the public strongly disagreed with me, I would be very interested in their viewpoints. What do they see that I don't see? Sorta like "point-counterpoint" or "pros vs cons." Gather information and make up your own mind. One thing I will say is that if Shy-Ann does want to be convinced one way or the other, she need to do some research and read, read, read so she can convince herself. I certainly won't be trying to convince anyone of anything. I just layout the facts as I understand them, give my viewpoint and let the person make up their own mind. Just like I did. The one thing that really does irk me though is to hear people insist that the Ramseys ARE innocent. There's no way anyone could be that certain of their innocence since so many things point against them. Particularly their lies in the face of their daughter's death. If you're being honest, you have to at least wonder about their innocence. But you're right about convincing. The public doesn't need to convince each other of anything because, it doesn't matter. The only people who need to be convinced one way or another are jurors. And that does matter (or at least it will someday). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Thanks Ribaldone" Posted by Shy-Ann on 20:59:49 8/10/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 20:59:49, 8/10/2000 You were correct in saying that I used the term convince me loosley. I was just wanting to know more facts and opinions about the case from people who think they are guilty. I guess I was thinking like a juror would think, present the prosecuter's point of view. Someone else asked me what books I have read and they are PMPT, DOI, and ST's book. I have only recently started looking at forums. I have been vising Jameson's forum for about a month now and someone mentioned JW, so I thought I would check the site out. I have not joined Jameson's she charges, so I just lurk there. I guess I have a hard time believing they are guilty because I have seen several of their interviews, read their book, etc. I am sorry if I upset anyone by asking that question. I was not trying to step on any toes, I was just curious about other people's points of veiw. The one thing I do know is that there is no gray in this case as far as people's feelings, i.e., you either believe they are totally guilty or you believe they are totally innocent (at least by what I have read on the forums). Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Shy-Ann (I will not be much of a poster here, don't have a lot to say, but I sure like to read the threads!) PS, I can't spell cat either!! lol Sorry about the bad spelling! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "How to know the Rams are guilty" Posted by DrTee on 18:51:29 8/10/2000 First step: Open your eyes. Done. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "New to Forum - Convince me the Rams are Innocent" Posted by FT on 19:53:46 8/10/2000 Hi Shy-Ann. I am also new to the forum. I have a hard time believing the Ramseys are innocent. Can you briefly give me the facts, reasons, or your opinions why they are innocent? Thanks! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Rams ARE Innocent" Posted by ToppCat on 21:14:24 8/10/2000 I think the Ramsey's are a wonderful couple. They are VERY down to Earth and spend so much of their time helping others. They could never do anything as horrible as this crime. They thought the world of JonBenet. Pagents and costumes are a wonderful way of preparing ANY young woman for the challenges of growing up in the world today. They lived very modestly and never seemed effected by the material things in life. They make a great-looking couple too! Ooops, the intercom went off and they're calling us to take our meds now. Gotta run! Bye! TC (Frank) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Nurse Rachet..." Posted by PegB on 22:01:42 8/10/2000 ...Nurse Rachet, ToppCat is playing on the internet again...and I have lemonade sprayed all over my monitor...make him stop... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "LOL, Dr. Tee! " Posted by Harmony on 21:11:01 8/10/2000 FT, you beat me to it. Convince me they aren't guilty. A big, warm, welcome to Isabella, btw. Hi Isabella. I can't wait to hear your views on the case. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Harmony" Posted by FT on 21:58:37 8/10/2000 I guess we are even now. I really wanted to be the first to announce that I had donated a kidney while JW was offline, but you beat me to it. I had to settle for accepting the Nobel Prize in Economics. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "The most compelling reason" Posted by docg on 23:06:46 8/10/2000 has not yet been mentioned. There is strong evidence that a break-in via a basement window was staged. This window was found broken and open, with various debris strewn on the floor. Yet the peeling paint on the window sill of this very narrow window was undisturbed and a spider web was found connecting the outer grate to its surroundings. Police arriving on the scene found no sign of footprints or any other disturbances in the area surrounding this window. The official police report stated that there were NO signs of forced entry. Alex Hunter, the DA, himself stated "No one went through that window." It's very hard to imagine why anyone except an insider would want to stage such a break-in. Moreover, John Ramsey's actions with regard to this window were very strange. He closed the window upon first encountering it and TOLD NO ONE about that till months later. He also claimed that he himself had broken it months earlier, though he's never explained why he would have wanted to break into that particular window when other ground level windows were far more accessible. The housekeeper has testified she never saw any signs that window had been broken earlier, never noticed glass on the basement floor, etc. Everything points to the staging of a break-in by John and then a change of plan on his part, probably when he realized the staging was not going to be credible. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Guilt?" Posted by Aurora on 22:24:27 8/10/2000 Shy Ann We know they are guilty. Too many things point in their direction. They are still under that little umbrella...don't forget. TopCat... That was so funny. Ft... I really did donate a kidney to my brother and do not think that is anything funny to joke about. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "FT" Posted by Harmony on 22:15:54 8/10/2000 I thought you won the Nobel Prize for Ponzi Economics? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Abundant Reasoning" Posted by Starling on 00:05:14 8/11/2000 There is an enormous amount of information available about the case for people to make up their own minds, regarding which way they lean. Sure there are some who choose to straddle the fence, but the majority - have as you say, chose sides. What has always bothered myself is that during the last few years no matter how much the Anti-Ramsey's keep an open mind to new information (as it trickles in), the Pro-Ramsey's deliberately turn their backs to avoid real issues, such as the many inconsistancies, both John and Patsy have in their public statements. John Ramsey is a salesman and for the past few years he has been selling the line, that his family is a normal family and there is nothing in their past to indicate that they are the culprits responsible for JonBenet's death. All the pro-Ramsey's just nod their heads, as the man speaks - All Hail John & Patsy Ramsey! The Ramsey's do no wrong in their eyes. And frankly, they look like fools trying to defend these two people. As their supporters, they should be first in line, knocking on John & Patsy's door wanting accountability for some of the harder questions - like why in God's name did John Ramsey tell two different detectives/cops the morning she was allegedly reported missing that he had personally read to his kids before they went to bed that night, only to retract that statment four months later to say they both must have misheard. Well that's BS! Like Steve Thomas said - they are the ones with the dead kid in the basement and I don't care how upscale they think they are - this has landed in their lap and they've done nothing right, and everything wrong since the beginning of this little charade. All their inconsistancies boil down to little lies. And if they are capable of lying and distoring the truth they are capable of much, much more. There's you a starting point. Just always remember - keep an open mind and don't turn your back on important issues, because a jury sure won't, once they see the pictures of this little girl laid out on a morgue table. Starling [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "No touchy no feely..." Posted by Fernandina on 19:42:51 8/11/2000 Why in Gods name would those parents not be holding each other in a panic -WITH thier son close by upon hearing of the 'kidnapping'. Even if they hated each other-they loved the child and I dont care what anyone says-their reactions have been completely unnatural. And unnatural is part of this life-this world-so say "WHOS to say whats natural to one?" Thats MALARKY. And rammers-its too late to go back now and start the holding and hugging and sobbing-It sould have been every time we have seen or heard you-your voices are defensive -your bodylanguage is guilty all over. And your rage is directed at the police and the public -this has been all about this happening to YOU-you always say this terrible thing that ahppened to US!!!! Get with it -it happened to your daughter!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "And Why" Posted by Paralegal on 10:05:11 8/12/2000 would they call a lawyer that morning BEFORE they call the police???? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Shy-Ann--what do you mean," Posted by fiddler on 00:32:27 8/11/2000 black-and-white, "all-innocent or all-guilty?" Is it possible to be partially guilty of first-degree murder? How about second-degree? Or manslaughter? How low in the responsibility scale does one have to go, to get "partially-innocent, and partially-guilty"? What would that mean? And who are you? And why are Ferdinanda and Isabella posting here, suddenly? Where's Columbus? Is he off discovering the new world of partial innocence? Sorry to be cynical, but it seems like every time this forum has an upheaval of whatever sort, instantly a bunch of vultures comes to feed..... If you've really read all the books you cite, what possible questions about Ramsey guilt could you still have, that any of us could answer? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Hi Fiddler" Posted by Shy-Ann on 01:34:16 8/11/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 01:34:16, 8/11/2000 Hi there, you ask who I am, well I am just a stay at home mom, who also happens to work at home as a medical transcriber for a local hospital in our town. I do not know who the other two people are that you referred to in your post. I am not a vulture, I only honestly wanted some answers. I did not come here to cause trouble. As I stated in my post #12, I did not come here to step on toes. I only just found out about JW through Jameson's forum as I also pointed out in my post. I did not know when I asked to register at this site what it was about. When I got registered and read the few posts there, (today is the first day I have read anything here), I soon realized that it was a place for people who think the Rams are guilty. That got me interested in lurking here cause like I said, I have only visited a pro Rams forum. I am so sorry to have offended this forum. Like I said, I will not be posting here a lot cause I really do not have anything to say!!! I would still like to lurk though! I hope this helps you figure out who I am. I am a nobody, except to my family and friends, just a lurker, looking at another point of view. Take Care, Shy-Ann [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Shy-Ann--you're welcome to " Posted by fiddler on 02:52:54 8/11/2000 post here all you want (you certainly don't need MY say-so, LOL at myself). This is not a forum for people who think any certain way. If you've really been lurking for awhile, you'll know that we disagree among ourselves at least as much as we disagree with anyone else. We have people who think Patsy did it, people who think John did it, people who think Burke did it, people who think none of these did it but probably were involved, and people who aren't convinced of any of the above. It's true, we don't have anyone (even lake, as far as I remember) who thinks the Ramseys are completely uninvolved. But that could be just a fluke. You could be the missing ingredient that we need. (I'm actually not being sarcastic.) If you can make an argument for Ramsey innocence, please go ahead. What about their appearances made you doubt their guilt, despite having read the best approximations to the facts? I really hope you will answer. I've been asking lake for details of his/her/their scenario for years now, fruitlessly. Not to try to shoot the theory down, but to try to understand. Welcome, to a feisty, but I don't think closed-minded, forum! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Starling" Posted by pinker on 05:20:47 8/11/2000 'A normal family with nothing in their past that leads them to be responsible for the crime.' How many times have we heard that line. Now we really know very little about John's past. He paid quickly for Lucinda and those kids to have an attorney do their talking. Gee it almost looks there is something he's trying to hide. He's also generously paid their 'allowances'. We can't ascertain there is nothing in his past because we are not privy to it. Didn't ST allude to some impropriety JR had with using a business AX card for personal charges? Sounds like criminal activty to me, at least there is practice in deception. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "The Ramseys" Posted by tx_sunshine on 09:28:43 8/11/2000 Have never ONCE been to the BPH. Well as PR said we were not invited LMAO JFJB Tx-sunshine [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Aurora" Posted by FT on 09:35:07 8/11/2000 I have nothing but the greatest admiration for organ donors. If that were not the case, I would not have wanted to pretend to be one myself. I'm sorry I offended you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Shy-Ann " Posted by Ruthee on 11:01:00 8/11/2000 Hi: I am sincerely interested in why you find it hard to believe the Ramseys guilty. I'm not asking you to post your opinions to argue with you. I'm interested to see if you may have some insight that I may not have heard before or considered. I do not blindly support each and every "points to guilt" statement that I come across. I disagree with Steve Thomas when he states that Patsy committed this murder without help. I've heard a story that Patsy "ordered a leg of lamb" from church members for a luncheon. I don't believe that for a minute. If you have new thoughts or ideas regarding their innocence, I'm the first one to want to hear them. I don't believe the Kim Ballard story is true. I hope you'll find the time to post some of your thoughts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Ruthee." Posted by Holly on 05:38:56 8/12/2000 maybe because Shy-Ann has been reading at the Swamp. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Guilty?" Posted by RiverRat on 10:01:45 8/11/2000 I have never known of a family that had such a large group of people, as their chosen friends, that could immediately turn into murder suspects overnight. Sooo, if they are innocent, surely then, at the very least, they couldn't have been too surprised that crime invaded their lifes after surrounding themselves with the such. At this point it is hard for me to picture FW sneaking home to find a ringing phone after he specifically left instructions for them not to call! Just some of my thoughts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Aurora" Posted by DrTee on 11:14:21 8/11/2000 Chill. You'll find that we joke about everything here. Get used to it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Shy-Ann" Posted by rico on 15:32:30 8/11/2000 >I have a hard time believing they >are guilty, can you guys briefly >give me the facts, reasons, your >opinions why they are guilty. >Thanks! Welcome to Justice Watch Shy-Ann! If you've been following this case than you should have a handle on the facts yourself; why ask others to convince you of the R's guilt? If you've been lurking then you should know that JW is unlike that other forum you're acquainted with. The forum hostess here doesn't have an agenda of convincing members the R's are guilty; in fact, the forum moderator at JW doesn't even post discussion threads (also unlike that self-proclaimed expert somewhere else). And as a member here you'll enjoy a much greater freedom and latitude to voice your opinions whether the moderator agrees with your POV or not. Most importantly, there are alot of old-timers here who are very helpful in directing others to case information, news, related urls, etc. so you can get the FACTS for yourself and make informed opinions and posts. Hope you'll stay and contribute to the discussions. Maybe you can start an intelligent and logical thread why you think the R's are innocent. JfJBR [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Of kidneys and other organs (not Burke's)" Posted by Seashell on 16:54:50 8/11/2000 Shy-Ann, for a moment there, when you said you're a bad speller, I almost thought you might be related to lakey-poo. Welcome! I'm sitting here scratching my ? trying to understand how anyone could think they're NOT guilty. Please enlighten us. Since we're talking about body parts, I once said to the parents of a man I was dating whose name was Bob, "Please give my breast to Bob." This was at a funeral. I started laughing so hard the casket was shaking. OK, that's my kidney story. Sharing is good, and yes, we make sport of everything here, even the murder case of JBR. Before registering, you have to pass the sense of humor test. Nice laugh, TC. I think they're guilty cuz I'm always right! :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "LMAO Seashell" Posted by v_p on 19:50:50 8/11/2000 . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Shy-Ann, " Posted by Venus on 21:32:51 8/11/2000 Who are you really? You're not a "medical transcriber" - that's a machine. You're not a medical transcriptionist - which is the correct phrase - because you can't spell "cat" and medical transcriptionists HAVE to be the very best spellers. So again, who are you really? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Who I really am!!" Posted by Shy-Ann on 22:30:02 8/11/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:30:02, 8/11/2000 I do not know why I have to defend myself or feel the need to, I guess it is because I do not like being called a liar. Yes you are correct, medical transcriber is a machine and yes you are correct, I am a medical transcriptionist. I still stand by my statement that I can't spell cat, but for some reason I am awesome at spelling medical words and understanding medical terminology, I took to it like a duck to water. The hosptial that I work for has a program that has spellchecks for both medical and regular words, which we are required to use before we transmit the medical report to their printers. I do not use a transcriber anymore, I now use what is called a Dictaphone. A wonderful machine that lets the doctors dictate, it goes into a memory bank (at least that is what I have been told) and waits for one of us little ol transcriptionists to transcribe it and send it on it's way. I really don't care what you believe about me, I am a medical transciptionist/transcriber. I will not be posting anymore. I did not come here to cause trouble, be called a liar, etc. I really was only wanting to get another point of view. I am sorry I ever posted! I do plan to continue to lurk here. Chris, the guy who registered me, if he wanted to, can tell you that I am real person who just wanted to join a forum and ask a simple question. Well, that's all I have to say. Take care, I do enjoy the posts here, I have to admit though that I have not enjoyed the attacks on who I am, like I said before, I am a just a stay at home mom, who works at home, gets bored, started looking at forums and asked to join one, the only one I belong to by the way. I am really sorry that I ever did join and really really sorry that I ever asked an honest question, just wanting other people's points of view. You guys take care!! Thanks for giving me the chance to reply! Shy-Ann [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Chased another one away, eh?" Posted by mary99 on 00:25:11 8/12/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 00:25:11, 8/12/2000 The warm welcome given to newbies is exceeded only by the paranioa that every newcomer is really a plant from the 'other forum'. Lighten up. Is anyone who wants to express a different POV a person to be chased away? Where's the sense of humor? Sleuth JBR, not the posters. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Chased another one away?" Posted by Venus on 00:58:53 8/12/2000 Wasn't my intention but if her skin is that thin..... I thought I phrased my questions in a very civil manner. The subject is one with which I am terribly familiar and her statements raised red flags for me. Her brashness in starting a thread and the post also got a reaction out of me. As others have said, every time something happens here we get bombarded with this sort of thing. I confess also that I have a rather strong reaction to total newcomers who come to the forum and start threads with demands such as this. I've been coming to this forum for close to 3 years now and have never started a thread. I wouldn't be that presumptuous. It seems to me that here, as with any other new place one attends, proper form would be to stay in the background for awhile until one learns the "steps to the dance." Every new situation entails new dynamics, and the wise person keeps a low profile until they scope the situation, the forum and the people out - or - until they learn the dance steps. You don't barge into a square dance and start to waltz. Of course, this is all just my own personal opinion, but I stand by it. I don't post my opinions that often but when I do - every word is a pearl! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "DocG" Posted by A.K. on 03:43:23 8/12/2000 Do we need to screen your address book again? If I'm wrong, I apologize. But one does have to wonder... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "There is something hinky" Posted by pinker on 05:18:15 8/12/2000 about Shy-Ann's timing. Read her post #22 above. She clearly states this was her first day reading this forum. I don't know about you but all I read prior to that thread were sighs of relief that the forum had been resurrected. Weren't we all at the beach on summer holiday for a couple of days before her appearance? There were no threads with active discussions of the type where she could have formulated said opinion. My opinion is she is either lying or has a unique form of ESP that allows her to decipher viewpoints from personal data about what JW posters claim they do when the forum is down. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "I think "Shy Ann" is..." Posted by Greenleaf on 06:42:56 8/12/2000 Lynn Wood! How very wonderful it is for the Ram defense lawyers to pick our brains in such a way. My goodness, it would cost a fortune to assemble a team of pollsters to do a litmus test on the citizenry. If I were the Ram lawyers, I would go straight to JW to get the answers. Yes, indeed, we know the case history. We willingly give our opinions. We are really a select group. If they can pick our brains, that gives them rich fodder for their "pulse takers." Our input is like gold, and it is free! What better way than to come busting on to the forum, disguised as a shy housewife, and ask us to disclose all our reasons for the Rams' "guilt." Their MO is always the same. Get what they want, voice their displeasure when some posters question them, and then, go away mad. Geeze, it's the same old same old. My opinion may not be worth much, but by God, I'm not going to share it with the potential enemy, especially a bold person named "Shy." LOL! Greenleaf flame away, oh ye from "gullibleville" usa. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "I can tell you what she's not" Posted by Venus on 06:58:36 8/12/2000 and that's a "medical transcriber." No way. She doesn't even know the names of the equipment used or that it's digital, etc. When I read her first post everything in me shouted she was from the Rams camp. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "SHY-Ann's tone of voice" Posted by Twitch on 07:23:08 8/12/2000 comes through loud and clear - male falsetto. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Who cares who" Posted by Ribaldone on 08:55:45 8/12/2000 Shy-Ann is. It's called anonymity and to some extent is the appeal of the internet. You can post or lurk anonymously. If Shy-Ann came in here flaming, making false accusations or spewing lies, fine. That opens the door for you to question her identify and flame right back. But since she just asked a simple and valid question, there is no reason to start calling her a liar and attacking her the way some of you have done. If you think she's really Lin Wood or some other Ram spy, IGNORE her. Some of you act like third-graders instead of adults everytime a newbie shows the courage to post. Like they're trying to steal your thunder or take over your territory. Gimme break. Grow up. And it doesn't have anything to do with "thin skin." It has to do with common sense. Why should anyone want to subject themselves to these kinds of attacks and being called a liar (with absolutely no evidence of it) when they can just as easily go somewhere else, somewhere civil. As I said before, I have little (if any) patience for staunch Ramsey supporters. But, nothing in Shy-Ann's post identified her as a "staunch Ramsey supporter." She politely asked an honest question and got a bunch of rude answers. Nice. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "Well Said Ribaldone" Posted by Paralegal on 10:20:08 8/12/2000 My sentiments exactly. That's why I've taken to mostly lurking anymore. No matter how long a poster has been here, SOMEONE will always identify you as a "newbie" and suspect your true motivation and persona. There ARE people out here in RL who really are intelligent, informed and emotionally healthy enough to be seeking mature discussions on this case. Maybe potential applicants to JW should be submitted to polygraphs and psych exams so, once accepted, NO ONE will be subjected to paranoia and malicious attacks when they post! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Well Jonesey" Posted by Ribaldone on 09:42:04 8/12/2000 I don't have a Yahoo club. I am registered on several forums besides JW -- DOI, Cybersleuths and Webbslueths. DOI isn't MY club anymore than Justice Watch or Cyberslueths is. I'm a member of THEIR club. And I don't feel a personal need to further explain anything to Shy-Ann. She asked a question, I responded. Period. If I had felt she was out of line, I would have just ignored her. Like I generally do with you. Unlike you, I need a reason before I am rude to someone. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. " Dear Ribaldone" Posted by Greenleaf on 09:51:43 8/12/2000 We don't know each other from Adam. However, my friend, we do know each other, on a certain intellectual level, associated with our postings here, at JW. I will say it straightaway: I welcome newbies. Sometimes their input is refreshing and informative. Go back and examine my welcome to newbies. Many warm and loving posts to those whom I thought were on the level. Many will tell you that I was often times the first to welcome them. Contrast that with those who come through our doors with agendas. You may find "Shy Ann" just a curious, timid, little housewife, and I accept your findings; However, I have the right to assess her in my own way. If me and my brain tells me that she might be Lyn Wood, then sobeit. I have every right in this world to express my feelings on the subject. It is indeed unfortunate that you elected to phrase your criticism in such a demeaning way. I do not now, nor have I ever had any thoughts of anyone "stealing my thunder." YeeGads, man, I have never thought of myself as having any claims to "thunderous" attributes. LOL! I have only one reason for posting on JW, and that is to contribute, in some small way, to putting the SOB's into the clinker for murdering JonBenet. "Shy Ann" is a joke. I (warts and all) am for real. Greenleaf [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "Greenleaf" Posted by Ribaldone on 10:21:12 8/12/2000 I have never found you to be rude to anyone. Quite the contrary. And I wasn't directing my statement to you -- actually I wasn't directing it to anyone. Just making a statement that sometimes the rudeness comes on before it's really called for. I never said that a poster shouldn't be question if something seems off. I see nothing wrong with that at all. It's the attacks that I don't understand. And, again, I don't recall seeing you attack anyone. You're always quite pleasant. There's nothing wrong with questioning someone about their "agenda", but for some to call them a liar before they really know anything, seems a little harsh to me. I made the reference to Lin Wood because I could see your point about him "picking our brains." I made the statement, "If you (meaning anyone) think he's Lin Wood, IGNORE him" because if your thoughts are correct, we should not give him any information. IGNORE him. I apologize that I didn't state my thoughts more clearly, but please know that I did not intend to imply that YOU were rude. If that was the impression I gave, I apologize. But I stand by my statement about SOME posters (and cannot give you names because I don't write them down everytime a see a rude post to a newbie. But, I know I see plenty of them) seem to have a problem with newbies. I just don't understand why. I agree with you about welcoming newbies! What the hell, the more the merrier. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "Stay at home mom?" Posted by DrTee on 10:15:42 8/12/2000 Do you, uh, bake bread? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE