Justice Watch "How would JonBenet feel about JusticeWatch?" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... How would JonBenet feel about JusticeWatch?, Twitch, 10:09:20, 8/16/2001 Twitch, JR, 10:30:14, 8/16/2001, (#1) Huh?, Watching you, 10:31:42, 8/16/2001, (#2) Does my dream count?, Diwi, 14:12:23, 8/16/2001, (#3) Diwi, JR, 14:22:37, 8/16/2001, (#4) I think she'd be proud, v_p, 18:21:23, 8/16/2001, (#5) From the perspective of a 6 yr. old,, Gemini, 18:40:39, 8/16/2001, (#7) Geez, Diwi..., LurkerXIV, 18:35:23, 8/16/2001, (#6) I don't think, v_p, 18:48:05, 8/16/2001, (#8) I think, Gemini, 18:55:07, 8/16/2001, (#9) IMHO, JR, 19:10:13, 8/16/2001, (#10) JR, Gemini, 19:45:19, 8/16/2001, (#11) Gem, JR, 20:03:27, 8/16/2001, (#12) You know what, Twitch, 20:26:46, 8/16/2001, (#13) Sorry JR, Gemini, 20:43:47, 8/16/2001, (#14) Gem's right Twitch, JR, 20:51:50, 8/16/2001, (#15) Well, since you mentioned it, Gem, Watching you, 06:30:11, 8/17/2001, (#16) WWJBD? (What Would JonBenet Do?), Dunvegan, 03:08:48, 8/26/2001, (#17) Dunvegan, Tricia, 03:16:21, 8/26/2001, (#18) Thank you Dun, Twitch, 05:31:16, 8/26/2001, (#19) Fabulous post, Dunvegan..., cappuccina, 08:57:43, 8/26/2001, (#20) Dunvegan, Watching you, 09:14:46, 8/26/2001, (#21) Wow is right !!, ACandyRose, 09:40:34, 8/26/2001, (#22) ................................................................... "How would JonBenet feel about JusticeWatch?" Posted by Twitch on 10:17:46 8/16/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:17:46, 8/16/2001 Recent events on JusticeWatch have caused me to spend a little time reflecting on just why I am here. Like most of you, I was drawn into this case because of the sheer horror of it all. JonBenet has come to symbolize, to me, all of the precious, defensless children of the world who are preyed on and tortured and killed every day. At the time of her death, the internet was just beginning to have a large impact on my life and the information I found so easily on it, definitely helped fuel my ongoing interest. As many of you have noted, I am not a great sleuth, web or otherwise. I came here for information and stayed because of the community as well as JusticefJBR. I always felt that I could play a role through encouragement and occasional comments that might not be totally off the wall. I felt that just being here helped if it pushed this case to resolution. I also felt, that the Ramseys were good for it and I wanted them to be punished in some fashion, even if just through public scrutiny. I don't know who killed JonBenet. Even so, I have, on this very forum called Patsy Ramsey a child killer. I have also hinted strongly at the possibility that John Ramsey molested and killed his child. I wonder what JonBenet would think about that. Would she hate me for causing her parents so much pain or would she love me for seeking the truth and justice regarding her death? Whatever the truth, I know I am not here to cause pain to grieving parents or bash other posters or question their place in this community. I feel very strongly about everything I have posted here at JW including Patsy and John Ramsey's involvement in the death of their daughter and my disagreements with the methods of cybersleuthing employed by some posters. I'm just wondering lately, if it is right to impose my opinions, even of right and wrong, on this community or the Ramsey family. Maybe I have strayed to far from the heart of the matter - JonBenet Ramsey. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Twitch" Posted by JR on 10:30:14 8/16/2001 IMHO, you aren't imposing your opinions you are sharing them. Each time we do that and they are in opposition to other opinions, it should make people stop, think and take stock of what they believe. It may reafirm those beliefs or it may give them pause - either way, critical thinking is a good thing IMHO. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Huh?" Posted by Watching you on 10:31:42 8/16/2001 How have you imposed your opinions on anyone, Twitch? You are as entitled to state your opinions as much as anyone else is - that isn't imposing your opinions on others that I can see. None of us here is perfect - we are humans and we are all flawed. What would JonBenet think of us? I think she would think we, for the most part, have good hearts, good intentions, tons of humanity, and good humor. I think she knows we are all doing the best we can do with no real malice toward the Ramseys or anyone else. We speak our minds through our imperfect logic. We are human. We are not always right. We try. I think she would be happy to know that a bunch of imperfect human beings care enough to stay together through the years for the purpose of keeping her memory alive and seeking justice for her. Stop judging yourself so harshly. You've bent over backwards to be fair. You should be proud you have cared enough about all children to not forget about this child, JonBenet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Does my dream count?" Posted by Diwi on 14:12:23 8/16/2001 I don't put too much stock in paranormal stuff or that dreams mean much more than just a bunch of chemicals playing around while we're unconscious, but I did have a very vivid dream about Jon Benet once. I can only remember that she and myself were in a field of corn or wheat stalks, on a sunny day with a few clouds and a breeze. We were kind of skipping along playfully, holding hands. She was dressed in an all white dress and seemed very happy. I remember mentioning the possibility of John and/or Patsy being responsible for her death and she giggled and said something like, "Silly..." I've only had one dream about Jon Benet all of these years and that was it. Don't know if it means anything or not, but thought I'd share. I don't know if this response was off-topic or not but I think there is nothing wrong with people expressing their opinions/beliefs on this case, regardless of which side of the fence they're on. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Diwi ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Diwi" Posted by JR on 14:22:37 8/16/2001 Seems to me I remember you posting that dream right after you had it(?) I don't think anything is silly as long as it's not harmful to ourselves or others. Now what was that you were smoking? Just kidding Diwi. I think we are more open to those other senses when we are in a sleep or dream state. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "I think she'd be proud" Posted by v_p on 18:21:23 8/16/2001 of so many wonderful people in her corner. To some, it's about being right and the attention of pseudo fame, to most, it's about sleuthing, laughing, fighting, making up, making friends, but always... always keeping up the fight. Most children are forgotten before the ground settles... not our JonBenet... and she knows it. When the rubber meets the road, I don't think it matters who's right and who's wrong... but that we don't let anyone forget. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "From the perspective of a 6 yr. old," Posted by Gemini on 18:40:39 8/16/2001 parents, even very bad, negligent parents (not saying the Rs were, but just saying ... ) are the biggest part of that child's world. They identify with them very strongly. Given that truth ... I think JonBenet would be hurt and confused by much of the content here. Children do not reason things through in the same way as adults. But then, I don't think the Ramsey parents planned and carried out a deliberate murder, either. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Geez, Diwi..." Posted by LurkerXIV on 18:41:56 8/16/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:41:56, 8/16/2001 ...that sounds just like the opening scene of "Gladiator". What movie did you watch before you had that dream? ;) And, OK, since we're talking dreams here, I have a JonBenet dream about once a week. Here's what I dreamed the other night: JonBenet is peacefully sleeping, tummy down, head on pillow. A person enters the room. Her head starts thrashing back and forth, then is still. She is gathered up, blanket and all, and silently carried down the stairs. I saw this from the aspect of the top of the stairs. It was a short man, average build, with a bald spot on thecenter back of his head. I have never seen John Ramsey's head from this point of view, so I cannot say if it was he. Diwi, we used to discuss our dreams a lot on here when Ruthee was alive. There were some psychics...one named astrologer, and a couple others...phantom, too, I think. It was always an interesting topic. Even though it won't solve the case. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "I don't think" Posted by v_p on 18:48:05 8/16/2001 they planned and carried out a deliberate murder either. I think it was accidental. The deliberation comes with the cover up... and keeps on until this day..IMO. I agree also that children love their parents, good or bad.. it's all they know. Besides, they are afraid of the unknown if mommy and daddy turn out to be bad. But if JBR is looking in on us, and her parents did murder her, there isn't the fear factor of being taken away to a strange place if mommy and daddy are bad people... she is already in a safe place. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "I think" Posted by Gemini on 18:55:07 8/16/2001 there would still be the "identity" factor, though, v.p.. At that age, they are/were who she is/was. A lot may depend on our perceptions of life after death, etc.. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "IMHO" Posted by JR on 19:10:13 8/16/2001 Children learn what they live and it is true. If a child only knows bad how can they know good? If a child only knows good, how can they know bad until it's too late to question it perhaps? Children are not born afraid of the dark or the boogie man or what ever, we instill our fears on them. If JonBenet had no reason to fear what was happening it was too late by the time she realized it was bad. Whether it was the Ramseys, a family member or friend or an intruder who killed JonBenet, I am not so sure the murder itself was planned but something happened to change things and anger whoever hit her, to the point that blow was extremely vicious and was powered by a massive serge of adrenaline. That anger could have been at JonBenet or another person. JonBenet paid for it dearly. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "JR" Posted by Gemini on 19:45:19 8/16/2001 My remark was intended as a consideration in why I replied to the topic question the way I did ... not to change the topic or be argumentative. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Gem" Posted by JR on 20:03:27 8/16/2001 I didn't take your remark as argumentative - thought I was adding some opinion of my own is all. ;-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "You know what" Posted by Twitch on 20:26:46 8/16/2001 I just looked at Censusgirls' autopsy photos and now I remember why I stay here. It is all about JonBenet and it breaks my heart. I'll try to keep it all about her, at least on my part. Of course, I'm not perfect.... Thank you all for your caring responses. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Sorry JR" Posted by Gemini on 20:43:47 8/16/2001 My mistake. I thought you were taking my attempt to clarify and winging off on a whole new who-dunnit topic : ). Twitch, the photos are probably the hardest thing about this case the forums have tried to deal with. They truly do bring home the horror of this crime and the very real, little girl who suffered. Your caring has always shown through your posts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Gem's right Twitch" Posted by JR on 20:51:50 8/16/2001 Gem - sadly, JonBenet learned there really is a boogie man. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Well, since you mentioned it, Gem" Posted by Watching you on 06:30:11 8/17/2001 while JB may have been six years old on this earth, no one knows how old her soul was, or is, on the Other Side. You and I have read the same books. If we take any of them to heart, and I do take some of it to heart, then there is no room for unforgiving feelings on the other side. JonBenet would most likely tell us to forgive her killer(s) as it is part of her soul's growth to forgive. If one wants to apply what JB would think from the perspective of her being a six year old on this earth, I would tend to agree she would most likely say leave her mom and dad alone. However, that would have been before someone strangled the life out of her. No one will ever know, on this earth, what her thoughts about her parents/(killers?) might have been had she survived that attack. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "WWJBD? (What Would JonBenet Do?)" Posted by Dunvegan on 04:31:16 8/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 04:31:16, 8/26/2001 I would hope that she was a vibrant, living child...and that she could tell us in her own words. But, the responsibility of the living citizens of America is to defend the silent dead, the murdered, the missing, and the victimized. They cannot speak for themselves. Their murderers, victimizers, and the shadowy sycophants of the living suspects certainly will not speak for the dead. Those people will only speak for the earthly salvation from justice of the murderers. Therefore, there is nothing left honorable for the rest of us to do: but we MUST be their voice...that morally we MUST speak for them. I would hope that, if the Ramseys or a Ramsey, were guilty of this crime, that they would of their own free will confess. Because it is obvious that some people belive that forgiveness can be bought or damnation deferred by the stonewalls of lawyers, or by self-serving lies. I would hope that whomsoever is the murderer of JonBenet Ramsey, or the killer of any other citizen, never feels "home free." There is a moral and civil rights reason that there is no statute of limitations on murder. I have profound concerns that the combination of a certain amount of wealth and professional and well-orchastrated media propaganda can be used to marshal lawyers, public relations flacks, and influence the machinations of justice in any American town...and can actually be leveraged to circumvent justice in the United States. I have concerns that this "Murder for Dummies" blueprint is now only too well known to those who have resources and yet perform criminal acts, so that by following infamous example that they too shall use whatever wherewithal they have at their disposal to place themselves beyond the law. This blueprint gives some just the rational they need to chance at operating under a "expensively-purchased licence to kill." I believe that no one should have undue influence such that they can de-rail justice. Not organized crime. Not politicians. Not celebrities. Not nouveau riche self-important business folk. No one. As Mr. Blake's theme song repeated customarily during the lead-in to every episode of his crime-fighter/people's champion television show: "Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time." Now, has that become: Unless...you know you can do the crime and dodge the crime? I personally shall not abide John Ramsey changing or controlling the way I get my news. I don't want anyone to control the free press in America, at all...and hardly to that self-serving extent. And, a suspect in the murder of their own child is a completely self-serving, and utterly compromised editor and censor of the free press in this country. What would JonBenet think of Justice Watch? A truly spiritual question...worthy of contemplation...perhaps this gives us a clue as to why the Ramseys clamed the intent that the JBR foundation would be devoted to the spiritial enlightenment of children. Aren't children naturally "spiritually enlightened"? A foundation aim opposingly incongruent to almost any other foundation set up by the greving parents of a murdered family victim. Perhaps the Rameys worry far more about JonBenet's spiritual state regarding them, than stopping her running free "faux murderer" who could kill another innocent child. They are desperate not to catch her killer, or help in the cause of child endangement and aubse...but, fixated perhpas to influence JonBenet's "spiritual state." An attempt to buy forgiveness from beyond the grave? And, regarding this question of WWJBW, are we speaking of the viciously murdered six-year-old child and what she would wish happened here on JW today? Or, the woman JonBenet would have become. I can only speak to the general cause of justice. And, I am determined to continue doing this for the silenced, the missing, the murdered. Tomorrow, it could be me. You. Anybody. That is why we have in murder trials "The State of XXX v. Defendant." Our culture has appointed guardians of the lives and welfare of it's voiceless citizens. All of us. Justice can be answered here and now and in our lifetimes...as long as we don't forget, as long as we don't identify with living suspects more than dead victims, as long as we never give up. Forgiveness? We all have our own metaphysical ethos regarding forgiveness of murders. Not only are intitled to those spiritual decisions, those decisions and the rare freedom of religious expression are protected by the Constitution, and the Bill of Righs. "Life, love, and the pursuit of happiness" for a murder victim is the ultimate affront by the killer, the supreme violation of the complete and irrevocable or unrestorable civil rights of the murder victim, and indeed, the rest of the citizens protected by the freedoms of this land. We all may come to a time or a phlosophical or spiritual peace with the deeds of a violent perpetrator. We all have different spiritual paths to travel. Among all possible eventual spiritual decisions we may come to, forgiveness is certainly one of the most rising and converging elements of the highest state of spiritualitual growth. But, only the victim themselves can truly forgive their own perpetrator...and, murder leaves no earthly chance for this most holiest of invocations of benediction and beneficence. that a victim can extend to their executor. And, by stint of the nature of murder, that particular and critical forgiveness of victim to victimizer has been caused to be withheld on this plane of existance. WWJBD? I would pray live on in her permanent state of grace. She has been permanently silence so that we here shall never know what her feeling about JW would be. But I would hope she would be amazed that so many people, for so many years, from all places around the world, unflaggingly come together and held together in the cause of understandng what happened in those final terrifying moments to a small murdered girl who could have been so easily forgotton, or explained away to oblivion. To care enough to want to know what it was like for her to grow up and condend with ambitions probably not her own, and then die in that house where she lived. All this place is, is a gathering area and resource of a kind that is strongly, unalterably, relentless, irrevocally, determinedly, unfailing, and eternally writ directly into it's name. And, it's a simple name, a simple idea, or thought, or vocation, and simple noble aspiration: Justice Watch "People pay for what they do, and still more, for what they have allowed themselves to become. And they pay for it simply: by the lives they lead." --James Baldwin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Dunvegan" Posted by Tricia on 03:16:21 8/26/2001 That was beautiful. We must all remember we are here for one cause and that is Justice for JonBenet. Dunvegan with you at the helm of Justice Watch I believe Justice will happen. Tricia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Thank you Dun" Posted by Twitch on 05:31:16 8/26/2001 I'm glad you thought the question worth asking and I don't think anyone else could have answered it as well. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Fabulous post, Dunvegan..." Posted by cappuccina on 08:57:43 8/26/2001 ...very eloquent and moving...It is the kind of piece that really should be on the op-ed page of a large newspaper....Please think about sending it to a larger paper when the time is right... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Dunvegan" Posted by Watching you on 09:14:46 8/26/2001 I don't know why I missed this post the first time around. What a beautiful and eloquent piece of writing. I have a thought (I do have those now and then, you know). Dun's post should not be allowed to drop into oblivion on this forum; rather, I think this powerful post, which IMMSO defines who we are, what we believe, and what our goals are, should be immortalized in the halls of Justice Watch, perhaps on the home page, so that there can be no doubt what JW stands for. I really, truly mean that. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Wow is right !!" Posted by ACandyRose on 09:40:34 8/26/2001 Excellent, most excellent ! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL ACandyRose ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE