Justice Watch "THE BEAUTY PAGEANT FACTOR" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... THE BEAUTY PAGEANT FACTOR, Morgan, 18:07:27, 8/19/2001 It's probably, Ally, 18:21:24, 8/19/2001, (#1) ...No...we can't do that..., DAWN, 18:28:03, 8/19/2001, (#2) Dawn, Ally, 18:56:23, 8/19/2001, (#3) ..If JonBenet had lived..., DAWN, 19:04:40, 8/19/2001, (#4) Hello Ally..., DAWN, 19:13:30, 8/19/2001, (#5) Does anyone, Morgan, 05:29:02, 8/20/2001, (#6) It , starry, 05:30:06, 8/20/2001, (#7) It wasn't, Morgan, 06:03:12, 8/20/2001, (#8) Well, whatever her name is, Morgan, 06:25:30, 8/20/2001, (#9) Charlotte Church, driver, 07:37:46, 8/20/2001, (#12) (c) Morgan, JR, 07:26:45, 8/20/2001, (#10) JR, Morgan, 07:37:31, 8/20/2001, (#11) Sensationalism, driver, 07:40:37, 8/20/2001, (#13) Swan, luvsflowers, 07:45:49, 8/20/2001, (#15) The Ziggy Costume, Mee Too, 11:00:34, 8/20/2001, (#21) (c) Morgan, JR, 07:44:08, 8/20/2001, (#14) But, Luvs, Cassandra, 07:50:48, 8/20/2001, (#16) (c) But Cassandra, JR, 08:23:10, 8/20/2001, (#17) ...IMHO...., DAWN, 08:38:41, 8/20/2001, (#18) Pageant friends of JonBenet..., Mee Too, 10:42:48, 8/20/2001, (#20) Swan's mother, Morgan, 10:22:08, 8/20/2001, (#19) HAPPY, TEXAS, gaiabetsy, 11:14:46, 8/20/2001, (#22) Dear me,, gaiabetsy, 11:20:40, 8/20/2001, (#23) Whoa, MeeToo!, Edie Pratt, 11:32:54, 8/20/2001, (#24) Hi Edie..., Mee Too, 18:58:53, 8/20/2001, (#68) Hi, Edie, , gaiabetsy, 11:46:43, 8/20/2001, (#25) Hi, GB!, Edie Pratt, 11:54:10, 8/20/2001, (#26) Edie, 1000Sparks, 12:10:00, 8/20/2001, (#27) 1000 Sparks, Edie Pratt, 12:56:13, 8/20/2001, (#30) Sparky, JR, 12:13:22, 8/20/2001, (#28) JB in Charlevoix, Aurora, 12:55:08, 8/20/2001, (#29) (c) See Sparky, JR, 13:03:03, 8/20/2001, (#31) Morgan, Jerrya, 13:21:59, 8/20/2001, (#37) Gawdamighty, Sparky, Watching you, 13:11:25, 8/20/2001, (#32) Oh yes she was WY...., 1000Sparks, 13:15:50, 8/20/2001, (#34) (c) WY & Edie, JR, 13:14:46, 8/20/2001, (#33) gaiabetsy, janab, 13:26:30, 8/20/2001, (#39) janab..., LurkerXIV, 19:08:47, 8/20/2001, (#70) 1000 Patsys, Watching you, 13:18:22, 8/20/2001, (#36) JR, oh YEH?, 1000Sparks, 13:18:06, 8/20/2001, (#35) that's a cute rhyme, Sparky, Edie Pratt, 13:23:12, 8/20/2001, (#38) (c) Sparky N Edie N WY, JR, 13:29:49, 8/20/2001, (#41) Edie......, 1000Sparks, 13:27:15, 8/20/2001, (#40) (c) OK Y'All, JR, 13:32:27, 8/20/2001, (#42) Sigh...I kiss you all..., Dunvegan, 15:47:43, 8/20/2001, (#43) Did you win?, Twitch, 16:08:22, 8/20/2001, (#44) You guys had, Watching you, 16:10:23, 8/20/2001, (#45) sheesh, starry, 16:28:18, 8/20/2001, (#47) Just so you know , momo, 16:18:54, 8/20/2001, (#46) Twitch...my talent was obviously..., Dunvegan, 16:38:04, 8/20/2001, (#48) Dun?, Twitch, 16:43:42, 8/20/2001, (#49) Ohmygawd, Watching you, 16:47:13, 8/20/2001, (#51) Mr. Dunvegan AKA Blackbird sez..., Dunvegan, 16:46:22, 8/20/2001, (#50) Geeez, Maw...and all this time..., Dunvegan, 16:52:20, 8/20/2001, (#52) Dun, Watching you, 17:01:54, 8/20/2001, (#53) Hmmmm...my eyes ARE hazel: green/brown..., Dunvegan, 17:10:48, 8/20/2001, (#55) I've got the heebie jeebies, Watching you, 17:06:45, 8/20/2001, (#54) Dunnie, starry, 17:18:05, 8/20/2001, (#57) No kidding, momo, 17:13:49, 8/20/2001, (#56) I do have to say one thing, though, Watching you, 17:20:13, 8/20/2001, (#59) *Whoa*, Ayeka, 17:18:24, 8/20/2001, (#58) They don't make computer, Twitch, 17:25:02, 8/20/2001, (#60) omg ayeka, v_p, 18:01:35, 8/20/2001, (#61) Uhh...., Dunvegan, 18:12:13, 8/20/2001, (#63) All kidding aside...I if I show any pix here..., Dunvegan, 18:09:27, 8/20/2001, (#62) Dun ... Bwaaahhaaahhhaaa, v_p, 18:25:16, 8/20/2001, (#65) v_p, austingirl, 19:10:32, 8/20/2001, (#71) Dun, austingirl, 18:22:31, 8/20/2001, (#64) Um, hmmm...I think that's my..., Dunvegan, 18:41:31, 8/20/2001, (#66) So, Dun, Morgan, 18:51:04, 8/20/2001, (#67) The pagaent experience was a mixed bag..., Dunvegan, 19:02:49, 8/20/2001, (#69) Dun, v_p, 19:21:03, 8/20/2001, (#72) (c) Dun, JR, 19:43:48, 8/20/2001, (#75) ...Dunvegan..., DAWN, 19:31:59, 8/20/2001, (#73) Dunvegan..., LurkerXIV, 19:39:58, 8/20/2001, (#74) Dun, Aurora, 20:25:43, 8/20/2001, (#81) To a young child, Blackbird, 20:15:57, 8/20/2001, (#77) so it's OKiedoke now?, Edie Pratt, 20:15:24, 8/20/2001, (#76) Dearest Edie...Dearest Sparks...., Blackbird, 20:39:09, 8/20/2001, (#84) Leia, Edie Pratt, 20:52:40, 8/20/2001, (#87) My God Edie, Twitch, 20:28:55, 8/20/2001, (#82) listen up twitch, Edie Pratt, 20:42:36, 8/20/2001, (#85) Edie Pratt, LurkerXIV, 20:19:49, 8/20/2001, (#78) ..Edie.., DAWN, 20:22:47, 8/20/2001, (#79) R E A D I N G, Edie Pratt, 20:25:39, 8/20/2001, (#80) Edie, RiverRat, 20:52:15, 8/20/2001, (#86) Please go to, v_p, 20:37:47, 8/20/2001, (#83) Hey Dun, Jerrya, 20:54:05, 8/20/2001, (#88) Dunvegan, Gemini, 21:29:54, 8/20/2001, (#89) (c) Edie, JR, 21:58:23, 8/20/2001, (#90) ................................................................... "THE BEAUTY PAGEANT FACTOR" Posted by Morgan on 18:07:27 8/19/2001 If this case ever goes to trial, chances are the fact that JB participated in beauty pageants will likely be brought up by the prosecution, especially if one or more of the parents are charged. Does this fact truly have anything to do with JB's murder and/or the perpetrators? It's not like we see child beauty queens murdered every week. Maybe these children suffer a higher percentage of abuse, but I have never seen any statistics to support this. JB's pageant photos have helped make her case a media event, but should we give her participation in pageants any weight in regards to her murder? Does this in any way reflect badly on John and Patsy? [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "It's probably" Posted by Ally on 18:21:24 8/19/2001 the only reason we know about it. From the beginning the media has touted out the videos and photo shoots and it added to the mystery and sensationalism of the whole crime. Kids ARE killed every week but not six-year-old beauty queens. It's news. More likely we'll see something from the DEFENSE about the pageants possibly attracting unsavory types that like children and might abduct and kill them. (I think they are called pedophiles.) Anyway I can't believe all the beauty contests this girl was in, and all the exotic costumes she wore. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "...No...we can't do that..." Posted by DAWN on 18:28:03 8/19/2001 ...Not every parent wanting their child to be a model...or actress...or beauty queen...is a murderer...or abuser...god forbid... BUT...I always felt that it isn't right to push a child too much into becoming a sensual adult...especially at 6...peroxiding hair...and wearing provocative clothes...can't be healthy for a small child...whos perceptions of life come from what they are taught when they are so small... Here in England...we have our fair share of beauty queens and child models...but I don't think we make such a thing of it...surely plenty mums dye their childs hair...it's just something I feel is wrong...so for this act alone...I always regarded Patsy Ramsey as being strange... dawn [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Dawn" Posted by Ally on 18:56:23 8/19/2001 There in England, isn't Charlotte Church (Voice of an Angel) rather popular? I saw her in an interview once and she sure wears a lot of make-up for a 12-yr-old. She may be gifted but I wonder how hard she's been pushed all her life. Seems pretty happy though. Of course, being a phenominal singer isn't quite the same as winning the most beauty contests. Yet if she were murdered, I'm sure it would be just as sensational. And that was a horrible thing to say, sorry. I'm just trying to make a point about child prodigies. Which I really don't think JonBenet was a child prodigy.. just a beautiful little girl who was pushed too hard. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "..If JonBenet had lived..." Posted by DAWN on 19:04:40 8/19/2001 ...we don't know how long she would have continued to do pageants...maybe she would have stopped wanting to participate...we will never know... BUT the point here is....did pageant life ultimately destroy this little angel...??? Did it contribute to her demise...???? dawn [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Hello Ally..." Posted by DAWN on 19:13:30 8/19/2001 ...I see what you mean about Charlotte Church....She does indeed have an amazing voice...but her success has taken its toll on her naiveness...and innocence...why...??? As far as I know...Charlotte has been in bitter court battles over money earned etc...with family members...close family members....so she has been forced to grow up very quickly and manage her own finances....and watch her own back... Sometimes when I watch her perform...I see the enjoyment in her eyes...for singing is her thing...BUT she also has another look in her eyes...maybe she has seen what success does to people...I don't know...BUT she seems very affected. dawn [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Does anyone" Posted by Morgan on 05:29:02 8/20/2001 remember the name of the little girl featured in the most recent special on child beauty pageants? She was from Florida. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "It " Posted by starry on 05:30:06 8/20/2001 started with an "S" Give me a few more minutes and it will come to me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "It wasn't" Posted by Morgan on 06:03:12 8/20/2001 Star, was it? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Well, whatever her name is" Posted by Morgan on 06:25:30 8/20/2001 I have a feeling that if a Ram is ever charged and goes to trial, the JB's beauty pageant involvement will be more of an asset to the defense than a problem. The defense would likely argue that the pageants reflected the Ram's intense devotion to JB and their desire that she succeed in life. In addition they would say that no mother, as preoccuppied as Patsy was with beauty, would allow her daughter to have those wounds inflicted upon her. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Charlotte Church" Posted by driver on 07:37:46 8/20/2001 is either 15 or 16 now. I think we were first "introduced" to her when she was around 13. At that time, she wore no makeup and dressed very age appropriate. The latest performance video that PBS has been running was made for last Christmas, I think. Unfortunately, she has been pushed and has developed some very bad vocal habits that will cause her alot of difficulty if she doesn't find a coach that can correct them. She has been pushed beyond sensibility (musically). I believe the family fired her representative and is suing him for something or other - like the fees he charged. Her father seems to have decided that he need not share the pie with anyone. Since that time, she has taken a turn downhill, I fear. Morgan - I think the little girl in Florida's name was more complicated than star. I can almost hear it, but not. There is also Zoe around right now.. and don't forget Bambi from the TV movie. (Wasn't it Painted Babies?) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "(c) Morgan" Posted by JR on 07:26:45 8/20/2001 IMHO, no juror is going to buy that. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "JR" Posted by Morgan on 07:37:31 8/20/2001 Well, IMO enough time has passed to remove the sensationalism from the pageant factor. The public is so used to seeing those pics, that they prolly seem completely natural by now. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Sensationalism" Posted by driver on 07:40:37 8/20/2001 Never, ever will I de-sensitize to seeing that little, little girl's hair bleached out to platinum blonde. What in the HELL was that mother thinking???? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Swan" Posted by luvsflowers on 07:45:49 8/20/2001 her name is Swan Brooner and she was 5. And I disagree with whoever said this is going to be good for the defense. Patsy Ramsey tarted JB up to look like a small Lolita. I dont see anything wrong per se with children entering pageants but I think PR went way over the top---just as she does with everything in her life. The biggest and the best. Excess to the max is PR. JMO luvs [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "The Ziggy Costume" Posted by Mee Too on 11:00:34 8/20/2001 Luvs....I agree the pageant painted baby look is NOT going to go well for the Rammers....The head piece JonBenet was forced to wear in the Ziggy Showgirl costume was reportedly Sooo heavy she nearly feel over..and she didn't want to wear it but was NOT given a choice!!!I don't think anyone will forget the BRUISES on JonBenets arms...To damn bad those stoopid looking white bands going up her left arm didn't totaly cover the bruise on her left biscep!!!! (not just a briuse on her right biscep either...)Who grabed JonBenets arms so tight that they were bruised...???? ....(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "(c) Morgan" Posted by JR on 07:44:55 8/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 07:44:55, 8/20/2001 Sorry Morgan, IMHO you are wrong - I will never forget. Edited to say: And they will never seem "natural" for a six year old IMHO. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "But, Luvs" Posted by Cassandra on 07:50:48 8/20/2001 "It was only a few Sunday afternoons." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "(c) But Cassandra" Posted by JR on 08:23:10 8/20/2001 How many trophies can a child win in one pageant? Even that child? Remember we have a trophhy room. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "...IMHO...." Posted by DAWN on 08:38:41 8/20/2001 ...The "few Sunday afternoons"- Pageant thing... the peroxide hair thing...the provocative outfit thing...the movement and swirly pose thing...CAN and WILL go against the Rammers...purely because of its intensity...little JonBenet was definately pushed...even to the point of having "off days" where she did not feel pretty...come on...this is warped...NO mum should make her child feel that they must be better...blonder...sexier...whatever...at 6...??? dawn [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Pageant friends of JonBenet..." Posted by Mee Too on 10:42:48 8/20/2001 Do we know who some of JonBenets pageant friends were...? The girl that reportedly told her mother JBR told her something..(possible abuse/molestation?) I wonder wasn't the mother contacted by the BPD or was she called before the JG..The Louisiana letter pageant Mom....? Wasn't it rumored/reported Daphne White was in pageants...Did anyone hear this...seems I saw it posted at one of the forums or maybe Pam Griffin ?...I know it wasn't in a Tab....Did Judith Phillips or Randy Simmons do her pics as well as JonBenets... After watching Painted Babies I was so sicken at what these poor little girls go though...like being put on a meat block...Peds dream indeed .....(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Swan's mother" Posted by Morgan on 10:22:08 8/20/2001 was a little scary. She was fierce. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "HAPPY, TEXAS" Posted by gaiabetsy on 11:14:46 8/20/2001 Did any of you guys see or rent that movie? I remember something about the fact some execs producing the film weren't sure whether or not to let it be released because of the Ramsey case. Sorta "shades of THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE and the death of Kennedy". Anyway, it's a hoot. Lots of stuff about "child beauty pageants" in Texas! Remember Texas? The place where Patsy took a vacation and returned with a "blonde" Jonbenet and her own sparkly diamond ring! The film stars an English actor I just love. Anyone see EMMA with Gwyneth Paltrow? Mr. Knightly was portrayed by the same dude (sporting a crummy American accent) as one of the leads. Also had Ally from "Profiler". Cute, anyway. Rent it. It's a "soft" movie with some laughs and lots of fun. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Dear me," Posted by gaiabetsy on 11:20:40 8/20/2001 I forgot to really comment on the "pageant factor". Most of me wants to say "how could it be otherwise?", when describing that part of the Ram's lives. Yet, as others have stated, ain't no way most kids get murdered as a result of participation in a pageant. However, the world is getting smaller and stranger and more and more accessible. How nice it must be for "hungry animals" to feed off the babies we disguise as "older women". It's happened before in history and it will again and again and again. Perhaps Patsy is to be pitied. She erred on the wrong side of this matter. My own mother erred on the other side. You can shelter and protect a child too much. Then, of course, there was Patsy. No child seemed very sheltered by her. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Whoa, MeeToo!" Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:32:54 8/20/2001 back up...where did you hear Daphne White (love her name:-) ), was in pageants?!? Really? With JonBenet? Why didn't Patsy say so, when everyone was attacking her for exploiting JB? If someone else in the RamseyRealm was doing the same thing with their kid, how come nobody ever said so? ( do I seem like I work for the CIA with all these questions? LOL) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "Hi Edie..." Posted by Mee Too on 18:58:53 8/20/2001 Hi Edie...Thats what I'm trying to figure out..where I heard/read this Daphne in Pageants info... Good question why Patsy hasn't mentioned it...Of course if Fleet or Jr can't even tell us what the fight was about in Atlanta and WHY Fleet didn't want the media attention and stuff looked into in Boulder...haaa why would they mention DW in pageants....Secrets...secrets and more secrets..hm Well I can see from this thread nothing has changed.....so sad Justice for JonBenet ...(Mee Too) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Hi, Edie, " Posted by gaiabetsy on 11:46:43 8/20/2001 I have nothing else to say except, "Hi, Edie, how are ya?" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Hi, GB!" Posted by Edie Pratt on 11:54:10 8/20/2001 I'm fine thanks, and you?:-) I'm sitting here waiting for MT to answer, or someone else, I don't care, about DW in pageants. How'd that escape us? I wonder if there are pictures...anyway, Hi! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Edie" Posted by 1000Sparks on 12:10:00 8/20/2001 I don't think you are with the CBI or anything like that... nosey is more like it. My daughter was in two pageants and I never even hit or slapped her..... put that in your pipe and smoke it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "1000 Sparks" Posted by Edie Pratt on 12:56:13 8/20/2001 I think you better look in your own damned pipe, because if you think you've been sitting on your big fat assumptions for 4 1/2 + years with the purest of motives, you're smoking more than Captain Black. Of all the hipocritical things I've heard on these forums, yours takes the cake. I think it's safe to say WE'RE ALL NOSEY, and it's also safe to say WE'VE ALL QUESTIONED THE PAGEANTS, and their influence on this case. If you choose to display your children like cattle, tis your business, but I think pageants that reward a bleached blonde, fanny shaking, manufactured 6 yr old, stink to high heaven. So, sparky, put THAT in YOUR pipe and toke. You gotta be high on something to slap me for being nosey. LOL [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Sparky" Posted by JR on 12:13:22 8/20/2001 I have it on good authority that Edie is pageant queen and her slapped everyone else to make them let her win. ;-\ [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "JB in Charlevoix" Posted by Aurora on 12:55:08 8/20/2001 I heard that the year ..JB..won the Little Miss Charlevoix contest...there were only a coupla little girls competing against her. Guess..they didn't stand a snowballs chance in hell....with JB ..made up...and dressed up... alot better than they could afford to be. Patsy made sure JB had all the advantages that money can buy... in order ...to win. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "(c) See Sparky" Posted by JR on 13:03:03 8/20/2001 I told ya Edie slapped everyone and you didn't believe me. So...how come it is you never ban her witiness? ;-\ [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Morgan" Posted by Jerrya on 13:21:59 8/20/2001 Does this in any way reflect badly on John and Patsy? It all depends, by who's standards you're talking about. I believe there was a relationship with her murder & her life style as a beauty queen. No doubt about! I can't say I buy into your spin. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Gawdamighty, Sparky" Posted by Watching you on 13:11:25 8/20/2001 are you getting yourself into trouble again? um, EdiePratt, I think Sparky was, like, kidding? And, her kid was never in any beauty pageant. Sparky, you ditz. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "Oh yes she was WY...." Posted by 1000Sparks on 13:15:50 8/20/2001 She was in two, one at 5 and one at 7... If we weren't all nosey we wouldn't be here....Edie, Edie....... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "(c) WY & Edie" Posted by JR on 13:14:46 8/20/2001 I never knew Edie had a goat. Ediedoes that goat bug you as much as a certain rooster bugged another poster? ;-\ [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "gaiabetsy" Posted by janab on 13:26:30 8/20/2001 When you said that the movie "Emma" had Ally from "Profiler" in it, were you talking about Ally Walker? She's been mentioned in connection with this case before, I think, but I can't remember what it was about. . janab [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 70. "janab..." Posted by LurkerXIV on 19:08:47 8/20/2001 Ally Walker is the famous offspring of Pooperscooper's brother (or was it cousin)? Lord, why do I remember these things when I can't even remember what I had for lunch today?? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "1000 Patsys" Posted by Watching you on 13:18:22 8/20/2001 You never told me that before Spatsy. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "JR, oh YEH?" Posted by 1000Sparks on 13:18:06 8/20/2001 mares eat oats, and does it oats, but little lambs eat ivy. A kid'll eat ivy too, wouldn't you.... and a goat willtoo [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "that's a cute rhyme, Sparky" Posted by Edie Pratt on 13:23:12 8/20/2001 maybe your little meal ticket could sing it when she bends over to show the judges her talent:-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "(c) Sparky N Edie N WY" Posted by JR on 16:49:25 8/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:49:25, 8/20/2001 Nope not me, I don't eat oats nor ivy nor tough old roosters unlike some on here would do. ;-\ Edited cause I re-thought what I said. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Edie......" Posted by 1000Sparks on 13:27:15 8/20/2001 That was kinda low of you.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "(c) OK Y'All" Posted by JR on 13:37:21 8/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:37:21, 8/20/2001 Sparky just warned me she's gonna ban us for singing on her thread. ;-\ Edited to add: ROFLMAO! Serena just said, "Otis, Otis, I'm gonna kick your butt." Y'All are teaching me bad things to teach her and I promised my mom I wouldn't teach her bad things. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "Sigh...I kiss you all..." Posted by Dunvegan on 15:47:43 8/20/2001 ...No personalities (OK, impossible on this forum...let me try again.) Edie and Sparks, Sparks and Edie: I love you both. At the same time. Plenty-lots. We're here to help children, victims, and others who turn to us for help. I'm the only one who's fair game for the really hot flames. How about this: both of you can jump on me for this post...that ought to quell the flames. I'll give you a topic: Dunvegan was in child pagents. Come and get me. You have 20 minutes...tick...tick...tick.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Did you win?" Posted by Twitch on 16:08:22 8/20/2001 And what was your talent? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "You guys had" Posted by Watching you on 16:10:23 8/20/2001 better get over to the new room Dun's added - all the rules and regulations - I've been spitting and polishing up my act here. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "sheesh" Posted by starry on 16:28:18 8/20/2001 I thought it was a good topic and all it does is make people flame one another. In my opinion, (not that I believe it for a nano-second), but if it wasn't the Ramsey's who murdered their daughter, looking at the people in the pagent lifestyle would be my next step. Who was JonBenét's competition? Who were their parents? Were they interviewed? Were samples taken? This could be a good discussion. We might learn things if we take the time to think and listen and reason. Come on guys! Stop bickering! huggs, starry. PS. Dun....... were you really? We put #1 granddaughter in a baby contest once when she was 3 or 4, but the dumb judges didn't even give her third place. What the hell do the judges from little County Fairs know? I'll have ya'all know that #1 granddaughter is absolutely beautiful and will outshine every one at her prom. When she gets old enough to go to one, that is...... :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Just so you know " Posted by momo on 16:18:54 8/20/2001 I was in two pageants. I was 1st runner up in one and Miss Congeniality in the other. The pageants were held by the local fire department. The pageants were named "Miss Flame". LOL [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "Twitch...my talent was obviously..." Posted by Dunvegan on 16:38:04 8/20/2001 ...looking the other way... Actually, it was dramatic speaking. Uh...the same as Patsy Ramsey. (I don't happen to have here in SF any of the child pagent stuff, but I hope to go home in the next several weeks, and I'll bring the pictures of 6-year-old me in gown, crown, holding a huge bouquet of roses...and, yes, their thorns did hurt.) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Dun?" Posted by Twitch on 16:43:42 8/20/2001 Is that you or some movie star? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Ohmygawd" Posted by Watching you on 16:47:13 8/20/2001 my long-lost daughter - put voluptuous lips on that girl and a puggier nose and my lawd, there is my daughter. Red hair and all. I don't believe it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Mr. Dunvegan AKA Blackbird sez..." Posted by Dunvegan on 16:46:22 8/20/2001 ..."Oh...it that the picture where you're wearing WAY TOO MUCH makeup?" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "Geeez, Maw...and all this time..." Posted by Dunvegan on 16:52:20 8/20/2001 ...I thought I HAD your voluptuous lips! Gotta start biting them again, hun? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "Dun" Posted by Watching you on 17:01:54 8/20/2001 you have no idea what a shocker that was. Her eyes are not are dark as yours, I think, a green/hazel color, her eyebrows are the same color as her hair, the more I look at that picture - wow. Her lips are beestung, like the models all wish theirs were naturally, haha. She is beautiful, I can't deny it, and so are you. You could be twins, although I think she is younger than you, heh. She looks to be in her 20's - never ages. I am just floored. I don't have a scanner or I would send you her picture e-mail. You would not believe it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "Hmmmm...my eyes ARE hazel: green/brown..." Posted by Dunvegan on 17:10:48 8/20/2001 ...and the eye-liner darkness is my own heavy handiwork with a kohl pencil, writ large around my orbs. My hair is a actually a little lighter than shows, more strawberry-auburn...but, that's a night/indoor shot. My mother, who looked a great deal like me, once did me the enormous favor of visiting me when I was starting college at 16, and passed herself off as my YOUNGER sister. That was when she was well in her mid-30's. And, d*mn, to my everlasting chagrin...not only did most everyone on campus buy that line...but, you shoulda seen the guys all bee-line and flock to her! I still look much the same...and I pray each night her genes hold out for me.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "I've got the heebie jeebies" Posted by Watching you on 17:09:18 8/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 17:09:18, 8/20/2001 the whammies and the hoochie koochies all together. I am flabbergasted. You posted my daughter's picture on this forum. Unbelievable. I am in shock. They say everyone has a twin somewhere. Who'd have known it? (Oh, and BTW, she is of Swedish descent on her father's side. Those Scandanavians, ooh la la) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "Dunnie" Posted by starry on 17:18:05 8/20/2001 You are truly beautiful! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "No kidding" Posted by momo on 17:13:49 8/20/2001 You and my mom could pass as sisters! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "I do have to say one thing, though" Posted by Watching you on 17:20:13 8/20/2001 my daughter never looks like that unless she's mad, haha. She's one of those bubbly personalities, always happy, always smiling. She did a serious picture once and it looks just like you in that picture. I know, you're posing and trying to look cool, haha. I noticed the eyes and thought, uh oh, when my child gets that look in her eyes, you'd better get out of her way. She's got the temper to go with that red hair. Yes, her hair is lighter in the light, too, but would look like that inside under that light. Wow. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "*Whoa*" Posted by Ayeka on 17:18:24 8/20/2001 Are you really Marg Helgenberger? ;) Ayeka [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "They don't make computer" Posted by Twitch on 17:25:02 8/20/2001 nerds like they used to. Hahaha I bet you're tall too. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "omg ayeka" Posted by v_p on 18:01:35 8/20/2001 I looked again and you're right.. shorten the hair and there you go! Quite fetchin' Dun. Dun, I have a question... is it still no holds barred in the WOR? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "Uhh...." Posted by Dunvegan on 18:12:13 8/20/2001 (I'm afraid to ask....) Why do you ask? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "All kidding aside...I if I show any pix here..." Posted by Dunvegan on 18:11:39 8/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:11:39, 8/20/2001 ...they should be from my childhood pageants. My guardians were originally Southern-stock...so, I know the baby- and child-pageant thing all too well. Those old pictures, and the commentary regarding them, would really be what is germane to our discussion here. As you all know, I just returned from Michigan. I walked up the front stairs of the house I was raised in. Nothing had changed. Oh, the grand weeping-willow was gone...that's about it. The first thing you see, walking up those front stairs and looking through the porch into the living room, is a 4' x 3' oil painting of me in full pagent mufti. There are so many of those pictures, starting from age one, that you cannot tell what color the wallpaper is in that living room. And my guardian just sits...night after night looking at what she sees as my greatest glory. Nothing I have done professionally since has meant a single thing to her...she just says, "Oh...but look at what you could have been...look at what you were." Here's the kicker: she's about 95 now...but has every single of her faculties...she's head of her church, and just had her driver's license re-upped last month. When I knocked on the door, she looked at me and scowled at me as if I were a stranger. She stood off, and looked me up and down and up and down. So, I gently put my arms around her shoulders, and slowly turned her around so she could see the pageant painting and said: "Lucille...that's me...Leia...that's my picture. That's me. Remember me?" As my husband is my witness. Only then did she recognize me at all. Edited to say: That's just one of the reasons I'm here at Justice Watch. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "Dun ... Bwaaahhaaahhhaaa" Posted by v_p on 18:25:16 8/20/2001 Just asking is all .... hahahahah Hey, listen, I was a butt-ugly kid... I'm talking snaggle-toothed, freckle-face, pixie-wearing ugly... so all I ever won was a twist contest .. and then I was disqualified for fighting the boy winner for his gun, (I didn't want the doll). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 71. "v_p" Posted by austingirl on 19:10:32 8/20/2001 Well, you certainly blossomed. Wouldn't have recognized you at the Do from that description above. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "Dun" Posted by austingirl on 18:22:31 8/20/2001 Wow, girl! Some good genes going there. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "Um, hmmm...I think that's my..." Posted by Dunvegan on 18:41:31 8/20/2001 "Bring it!(c)" look. If I ever do end up seeing the inside of a court over Justice Watch, you all will get to see my patented "Slap Down(c)!" look. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "So, Dun" Posted by Morgan on 18:51:04 8/20/2001 How was the pageant experience for you? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 69. "The pagaent experience was a mixed bag..." Posted by Dunvegan on 19:34:08 8/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:34:08, 8/20/2001 I always sparkled...always thought if all these other people liked me, awarded me, felt I was a good and, perhaps special child, I would someday have one of them believe me if I told them the things that were happening to me. I hear some folk say that if JonBenet were sexually abused, she wouldn't have appeared such a happy child. I appeared an extremely out-going and happy child, and teen-ager (Drama, Debate, a radio show at 14, probably the first public-access cable show at 14, School Newspaper, Forensic Oratory, you name it.) Always hoped that my credibility could some day be greater that the perfect public faces and respectibility of those who raised me, and abused me. You never saw me mope...I was holding out to win my freedom in the long run. Edited to say: I think I was lucky...for me, it worked. I survived. I left. Not that I wasn't told time and again, "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out!"...this from my guardian, not my birth mother. This is the guardian who told her friends she was proud her husband had never seen her naked (!) But, she made me sleep with her until "intervertion"...school teachers called her and hinted that such an arraingement was "unseemly". And, it was. Once, someone accidentally stepped into our house and caught one of these scenes...she turned to them with that "animal hatred look" and said: "She belongs to me! And, I'll d*mn well do whatever I want to her, If I kill her, it's none of your d*amn business! Get out!" And, I'd hoped, up until then, that if anyone saw her "crazy face" I'd be freed. But, they just flew out of our place, ashamed to have even seen such behaviour from the "church lady." If I were beaten badly enough, I'd be kept home from school. For my own good. I certainly know the upper-arm "death grip" used to control exacting behaviour, very, very well. This happens with the most highly upstanding, "faultless", "charitable" women, the women who feel their public face and their personal ambitions are unfaultable and must be reached. People laud such a woman's generosity...good temperment...good intentions...great charity. A pillar of the community. That's what the community sees...that's what the community wants to see. Makes it blessed hard for a child to make a case of abuse. Especially in the 1960's. Some women are no match for a child on the field of "believe me...not her." Some people saw underneath the veneer...they did their darndest to protect me. One teacher trumped up an excuse to keep with me for nearly a year, at her own home.... I was also beaten for small infractions of imperfect conduct (taking off a little glove, dropping my patent leather purse, etc.) with the leather strop that my guardian's husband used to sharpen his straight-razors. Until welts begat blood. But only where it wouldn't show. Of course. Too many painful memories, here...I'm going to take a long, long bath, with champagne...and wait for Blackbird to come home...signing out.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 72. "Dun" Posted by v_p on 19:21:03 8/20/2001 Of course. Your last paragraph gave me goose-bumps. Welps were embarrassing... how sick is that? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 75. "(c) Dun" Posted by JR on 19:44:37 8/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:44:37, 8/20/2001 Thank you for sharing yourself. How horrid for you. I remember the razer strap well myself and my mother loved to pinch the fleshy underside of your upper arm right about the brachial artery...must be a Southern thang...eh? The 60's and prior were a different time for kids amd corporal punishment, that's for sure isn't it? I would like to share this once again with those who it might make a difference to: For Children Who Were Broken by Elia Wise For Children Who Were Broken it is very hard to mend...... Our pain was rarely spoken and we hid the truth from friends. < clip> remember... Wounded trust is like a wounded knee-- It is very hard to bend. < clip> Please remember this when we are out of sorts. Tell us the truth, and be our friend. For children who were broken... it is very hard to mend. < clip> You can read it all here: http://www.stardrift.net/survivor/for.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 73. "...Dunvegan..." Posted by DAWN on 19:34:49 8/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:34:49, 8/20/2001 ..I always knew that I liked you...BUT today...I truly respect you...WHY...??? ..Because you know what is right...and what is wrong...and through your knowledge...and experiences...your strength has made you what you are today... A person who has the power to make changes happen... Thank you for sharing your life with us... Sweet dreams... dawn edited to say: Cheers (clink..Moet..) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 74. "Dunvegan..." Posted by LurkerXIV on 19:39:58 8/20/2001 ...I am so sorry....I had an inkling, but didn't know the extent of your suffering. God bless that teacher, God bless Blackbird, and God bless you! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 81. "Dun" Posted by Aurora on 20:25:43 8/20/2001 Your post brought tears to my eyes... The scars that you emotionally suffered.. are far... worse than the physical scars inflicted. I am glad you were able to rise above all that and become the beautiful person ..you are! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 77. "To a young child" Posted by Blackbird on 20:15:57 8/20/2001 Well, I just got home. Dunvegan is fine-- I have furnished her with a glass of cool wine and a warm shoulder. I've been reading this thread. I want to give her and all of you this poem, as it speaks to a young girl named Margaret, and to my Leia, too: To a Young Child by Gerard Manley Hopkins [1844-1889] Margaret, are you grieving Over Goldengrove unleaving? Leaves, like the things of man, you With your fresh thoughts care for, can you? Ah! as the heart grows older It will come to such sights colder By and by, nor spare a sigh Though worlds of wanwood leafmeal lie; And yet you will weep and know why. Now no matter, child, the name: Sorrow's springs are the same. Nor mouth had, no nor mind, expressed What heart heard of, ghost guessed: It is the blight man was born for, It is Margaret you mourn for. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 76. "so it's OKiedoke now?" Posted by Edie Pratt on 20:15:24 8/20/2001 All these years and all the discussion about what a trashy, ego maniacal, child abusing bit*h Patsy was for putting her baby in those sick pageants, is AoK because Sparky did the same? Oh, OK. Just trying to get the party line on this, don't want to veer from that! Gee, after nearly 5 yrs and whoknowshowmany threads on the subject, I'm sorry I wasted all that time in agreement, only to find it's suddenly wholesome to exploit your little girls because Sparky thinks it is...I coulda gone another four and half years thinking there's something twisted about babies vamping in their off the shoulder, Vegas showgirl costumes, giving those judges the comehitherbigboy look. Thanks for saving me the time. Pageants are wholesome, all American passtimes, and we don't think there's anything strange about 'em or the parents that enroll their little showpups in them. Right Dun? Your experience must have been an annomaly, and all those moms-from-hell we saw on the A&E specials were too. OK, got it. Pageants for children are harmless activities designed to boost a child's self esteem. It sounds like Dun didn't get that lesson right away, but she probably wasn't bright enough to catch on at age THREE, lol. You people are too much! Hope Daphne was in them, and hope her dad got there just in time for the talent. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 84. "Dearest Edie...Dearest Sparks...." Posted by Blackbird on 20:40:21 8/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 20:40:21, 8/20/2001 Leia here (Blackbird left his window open...but, he didn't fly away....) Not all children lived the pageant world as I did. Especially those who only showed, and won a nice plaque or a badge, or a certificate for showing. The teeth-gritting determination of mothers or guardians like mine are the anomaly. Really. It is only from my experience that I know so. I often wished to go home with the lovely little girlfriends I met at shows, and go away to live with them. Their lives were nothing like my life. I could see their mothers loved them well. I ached for that type of life. That's exactly why I shone and strove so hard...I had NO choice. To the others, it was a far simpler event. For me, it was made to seem life-or-death. In all walks of life, in all of life's pursuits, there are participants, champions, and the occasional stage mother-sports father maniacs. But, in these same events, there are straightforward parents just involving their children in events to socalize them, or to teach them skills. I believe that in every single pagent I participated in, it was not me or any other child that was the competition: my guardian was the most deadly competitor. The others had no idea what they were up against. My guardian saw any of my potential as a means to further her ambitions, and threw nearly super-human efforts into one thing, and only one thing: The Win. Just like anything else (Little League, skating, dancing, ballet, or gymnastics)...some parents and children are loving teams, some are kids pushed reluctantly...but not too hard, and then there are other children who labour under great pressure. Edie and Sparks, I love you both. I would have given anything to have been loved by either of you in your loving homes. My experience was not typical. Every childhood competition is not a blood sport for every child. What happened to me was rare, but not non-existant. And, for children who are physically, emotionally, and sexually abused, sometimes the applause of the outside world means the entire world in keeping you going...a momentary escape...a possible door to freedom. I would have rather competed than be locked into that house and have no voice, no appreciation, no understanding from the outside. It was a great comfort to me to find that others, normal others thought well of me. It may have saved my soul. All my life I have now striven to help others, partially because of the terror of my childhood, mostly because I wish to emulate the kindnesses that were shown to me when I was out there, on stage, alone but for the applause and the backstage kindnesses. And, I still strive to make peace whenever I can. I care about you both. Please help me here and now with that life's aim. That's all I can ask. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 87. "Leia" Posted by Edie Pratt on 20:52:40 8/20/2001 thank you. someday I'll tell you my experience as a showthing, but right now I am furious at the hipocricy of some people here. Yes, I'm sure there are nice moms doing for their daughters what they think is best, and I don't even fault Sparky. I am only saying that we have all discussed the pageants, discussed Patsy's love of them and abuse of JB, all speculated that the pageants may have played a role in her demise...and then I asked about (gasp) FW's little girl's rumored participation, and WHAM! I get slapped for being NOSEY! They are either sick or wholesome, which?, just please let's make up our minds so that I can stay within the herd's line. Don't want to upset the applecart, but to say after all these years of pageant put downs, that they're not so bad because a forum member does it, is like saying something against someone's religion, then saying "some of my bestfriends are ******" when you find out your friend is a ***. Hope that makes sense, and I love you too, Leia:-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 82. "My God Edie" Posted by Twitch on 20:28:55 8/20/2001 What is your problem? Whatever it is you have no right to take off on Sparky like that. I can't imagine you talking to your most beloved dog in such a manner. Sparky is a human being with deep feelings and a wonderful, kind, compassionate heart. Don't you presume to know her life's experiences and don't you dare presume to judge her or anything she does. I happen to know for a fact that she is the mother of a beautiful, intelligent, well rounded child whom she lives and dies for. Shame on you for saying such hateful things. You better believe that Sparky's experiences in pageants was in no way harmful to her daughter or else she wouldn't have been there. Times have changed Edie. I don't know how old you are but these past few decades have seen great changes in our culture and social mores and our feelings of what might be right or wrong for our children or how we might best set them on the right path for their entire lives. I always have enjoyed your humor and your to the point remarks here but you are way out of line on this one and I'm sure you don't care but I will never again see your hat here that I will not be reminded of the outright hatred you have shown someone I care greatly about. Signed - A former beauty contest herself, no not as a child but as a teenager who was old enough to know better - Twitch [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 85. "listen up twitch" Posted by Edie Pratt on 20:42:36 8/20/2001 i was attacked by your sparky for inquiring about Daphne White's involvment in pageants, and told that I am nosey. We have discussed the pageants and Patsy's sick obsession with them and her daughter, for years. Suddenly I am a villain because I asked, and now I'm a villain because I see you all talking out of both sides of your mouths? In one breath, pageants are a funny, silly subject that you all can weigh in on with your experiences and poo poo the insanity and possible connection to JB's murder, and in the next you are so sorry about Dun's experience that mirrors what we've suspected about JB's! Why is it OK when Sparky puts her child in those, but it's sick sick sick when Patsy does??? Or, Dun's guardian? If Sparky is a nice person as you say, I'm sure she'll understand why I got so upset when trying to have a decent dialogue about the pageants, and DW's rumored participation. Oh, I get it now, it's because DW is Fleet's girl, and therefor pageants aren't so bad. And, if Sparky's soooooo proud of exploiting her little sparkplug, how come nobody knew about it until now? I am disgusted, that's what my problem is. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 78. "Edie Pratt" Posted by LurkerXIV on 20:19:49 8/20/2001 ??? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 79. "..Edie.." Posted by DAWN on 20:22:47 8/20/2001 ...?????... d [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 80. "R E A D I N G" Posted by Edie Pratt on 20:25:39 8/20/2001 i s f u n d a m e n t a l...t r y h o o k e d o n p h o n i c s, i t w o r k s! G o t i t? G o o d:-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 86. "Edie" Posted by RiverRat on 20:52:15 8/20/2001 Daphne was not in pagents, that is why you haven't heard it by now. As a matter of fact, this is a new rumor, but not a new fact. I kind of doubt that Sparky's kid was subjected to the type of wardrobe that JonBenet was. There is also a big difference in the rural county fair pagents and the buy your win pagents that we have seen on the HBO specials or talk shows. Dunvegan, I hope that you are up for this part of the total in you face reminders that will come with this type of forum. Right now, it sounds like it has been over-theraputic for you. Keep relaxing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 83. "Please go to" Posted by v_p on 20:37:47 8/20/2001 Pageants II [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 88. "Hey Dun" Posted by Jerrya on 20:54:05 8/20/2001 If I were single I could go for you in a big way. I think maybe I would be over matched, LOL!! You are a nice looking lady. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 89. "Dunvegan" Posted by Gemini on 21:29:54 8/20/2001 Thanks for sharing some of your life's experiences with us. Isn't it wonderful you proved to be a survivor. Now, you're your own person and can create your OWN happy home with David. Bravo! (sorry to bump this one back up but do not believe I want to post on thread II amid the battle of the small forum factions) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 90. "(c) Edie" Posted by JR on 22:14:43 8/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:14:43, 8/20/2001 See thread II [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]