Justice Watch "Nothing In Her Past" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Nothing In Her Past, v_p, 22:35:00, 8/22/2001 (c)VP, JR, 23:22:18, 8/22/2001, (#1) Wow, Tricia, 23:36:09, 8/22/2001, (#2) Thanks V_P, Imbackon, 00:33:14, 8/23/2001, (#3) Time Out, pinker, 03:56:30, 8/23/2001, (#4) It is not very, Watching you, 06:24:44, 8/23/2001, (#5) Of course you're right WY, v_p, 08:14:44, 8/23/2001, (#6) yep, Shee, 11:25:13, 8/25/2001, (#55) What Ever Happened To...., Voyager, 08:46:57, 8/23/2001, (#8) I agree, v_p, Watching you, 08:44:01, 8/23/2001, (#7) I've always thought the "lack of history"..., Ayeka, 10:43:24, 8/23/2001, (#10) Ayeka, Watching you, 10:46:12, 8/23/2001, (#11) Past, doScubie, 10:35:59, 8/23/2001, (#9) Socorro Caro, Country Girl, 11:13:19, 8/23/2001, (#12) I have to admit, Nedthan Johns, 16:32:00, 8/23/2001, (#13) The challange, Ellique, 16:47:10, 8/23/2001, (#16) (c) Nedd, JR, 16:35:58, 8/23/2001, (#14) Ned, v_p, 16:39:25, 8/23/2001, (#15) ah ellie,, v_p, 17:47:46, 8/23/2001, (#17) (c) Ellique, JR, 18:06:54, 8/23/2001, (#18) Patser's past, austingirl, 19:36:57, 8/23/2001, (#19) You'd think, Ally, 19:47:56, 8/23/2001, (#21) austingirl, Thor, 19:42:51, 8/23/2001, (#20) Same old same old, Ellique, 21:09:12, 8/23/2001, (#22) Geesh Ellique, ddown, 08:06:41, 8/24/2001, (#31) Hey, Ellique sweetie, Thor, 21:13:22, 8/23/2001, (#25) Ellique, austingirl, 21:10:50, 8/23/2001, (#23) AG, Ellique, 21:13:07, 8/23/2001, (#24) Ellique, v_p, 21:49:27, 8/23/2001, (#26) (c) Who's challenge?, JR, 22:11:54, 8/23/2001, (#27) Hahaha, old El, Watching you, 05:05:53, 8/24/2001, (#28) Proof, Ellique, 06:15:45, 8/24/2001, (#29) And that's not what, Watching you, 06:36:08, 8/24/2001, (#30) WY, Ayeka, 08:54:44, 8/24/2001, (#32) Ayeka, Tricia, 09:08:19, 8/24/2001, (#33) (c) Jury Duty, JR, 09:24:52, 8/24/2001, (#34) V_P, Nedthan Johns, 13:06:02, 8/24/2001, (#35) Well folks, Nedthan Johns, 13:07:14, 8/24/2001, (#36) What?, ayelean, 18:07:49, 8/24/2001, (#37) Ayelean, KrayonC, 18:17:46, 8/24/2001, (#38) Had anyone heard about this AG program before?, Dunvegan, 18:36:15, 8/24/2001, (#39) Patsy's Past, Ellique, 20:21:04, 8/24/2001, (#40) just curious ellique, purr, 20:38:56, 8/24/2001, (#41) Purr's questions answered by Ellique, Ellique, 01:00:47, 8/25/2001, (#45) Purr, Ellique, 00:50:17, 8/25/2001, (#44) I think.., Phantom, 21:24:55, 8/24/2001, (#43) thanks phantom, purr, 21:43:35, 8/26/2001, (#63) purr..., LurkerXIV, 20:44:37, 8/24/2001, (#42) Kurkerxiv, Ellique, 01:09:20, 8/25/2001, (#46) AND ANOTHE THING , PURR AND/OR LURKERXIV, Ellique, 01:12:02, 8/25/2001, (#47) ha, i love staying up late........, purr, 21:47:09, 8/26/2001, (#64) (c) Ellique, JR, 02:22:06, 8/25/2001, (#48) (c) Ellique, JR, 02:35:39, 8/25/2001, (#49) JR, Ellique, 06:59:34, 8/25/2001, (#50) Re: the 911 call, v_p, 08:08:03, 8/25/2001, (#51) V_P, my lieblin (sp), Ellique, 10:46:49, 8/25/2001, (#53) i know this may surprise you ellique, but, purr, 21:57:00, 8/26/2001, (#65) (c) Ahhhh VP, JR, 08:18:24, 8/25/2001, (#52) JR, Ellique, 10:52:57, 8/25/2001, (#54) OK Ellie, you win...., v_p, 11:40:14, 8/25/2001, (#56) Good sportsmanship, Ellique, 12:02:36, 8/25/2001, (#57) Did you, Watching you, 12:24:01, 8/25/2001, (#58) Watching you, Ellique, 14:55:37, 8/25/2001, (#59) Watching You, I forgot to ask you !!, Ellique, 15:02:34, 8/25/2001, (#60) Source =, Watching you, 15:38:04, 8/25/2001, (#61) (c) Ellique, JR, 17:27:57, 8/25/2001, (#62) Purr,, Phantom, 21:59:58, 8/26/2001, (#66) phantom, i hear what you are saying........., purr, 22:11:58, 8/26/2001, (#67) Again..., Phantom, 12:20:20, 8/27/2001, (#68) my two cents, Shy, 21:31:49, 8/27/2001, (#69) Shy!!, Bets, 21:36:24, 8/27/2001, (#70) Hi, Bets! :), Shy, 22:13:50, 8/27/2001, (#71) there it is again, DebDeb, 09:39:32, 8/28/2001, (#72) For DebDeb, Shy, 18:18:25, 8/28/2001, (#74) SHY!, Bets, 10:34:23, 8/28/2001, (#73) Shy, DebDeb, 09:03:47, 8/29/2001, (#75) ................................................................... "Nothing In Her Past" Posted by v_p on 22:35:00 8/22/2001 There have been many times posters are challenged to find anything in Patsy Ramsey's past to indicate any sort of psychological problems. In fact, Lovelypigeon @ Jammy's forum, is forever challenging posters, (borg), to find even one case where there were no problems in the past of a mother who killed her child(ren). http://www.freejenner.com/august6news.htm Excerpt from the article "Deb Jenner certainly didn't fit any profile of a killer. She had grown up as the only child of two Huron schoolteachers, in a home where faith and family values were more than just passing thoughts. "She's not a habitual criminal," says her father, Bruce Shafer, who now lives with his wife Janet in Pierre. "She had absolutely no history of being a criminal, no history of mental illness or anything. And in high school, we never had to see anyone about anything. She didn't smoke, didn't drink, not a drop." Their daughter was All-State in music in high school, accomplished with her voice and her talents on the piano. And after her marriage, she shared those gifts at her church, Huron Wesleyan, where she was the pianist, director of the church's music department and head of the youth choir. Both the Jenners were heavily involved at Huron Wesleyan. Lynn Jenner was the Sunday school superintendent there. His wife helped him and taught preschool Sunday school classes for many years, too. When they weren't pursuing church activities, they spent free time with their children. They had purchased a camper a year before Abby's death and enjoyed the outdoors. They loved putting the kids into bicycle seats and riding to a nearby park. " Quite by accident I ran across this article tonight. Not only does the article address the issue of no past indications of problems ... but it addresses the DNA issue. Another interesting point is where someone, (I forget), points out that if this woman had hired an attorney immediately, and had it not been for the "trick" interrogation, there never would have been a conviction... The Ramseys are mentioned. Keep in mind this is a website to free this woman and is a titch slanted... just a titch. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "(c)VP" Posted by JR on 23:22:18 8/22/2001 Interesting article. Thank you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Wow" Posted by Tricia on 23:36:09 8/22/2001 Never heard of this woman. Doesn't say WHY her husband divorced her. Interesting how they say she didn't lawyer up like the Ramseys and that's why she was mentally broken down by the cops and confessed. Said if she had hired a lawyer (like the Ramseys) it (her confession) wouldn't have happened. DUH. That's why the Ramseys lawyered up. So they wouldn't break down and confess like she did. Sounds guilty to me. Great reading. Thanks v_p. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Thanks V_P" Posted by Imbackon on 00:34:21 8/23/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 00:34:21, 8/23/2001 You are so right that the Ram fans keep pointing out that Patsy had no violent history and thus could not have killed Jonbenet. I think not having a violent history is pretty irrelevant in a case where a parent or caregiver snaps due to being overtired or stressed. I can honestly say some of my darkest moments have been when I was tired. Thanks for pointing out this case. Imbackon [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Time Out" Posted by pinker on 03:57:48 8/23/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 03:57:48, 8/23/2001 Patsy may have an overlooked 'psychiatric history' that is prevelant in most cancer patients. Cancer does have consequences to the psychological balance of everyday living. There is an emotional toll with fighting and surviving cancer or any life threatening situation. Minimally there would have been psychiatric assessments, possibly even some interventions during her bout with cancer. As well many medications could have had side effects that affected her behavior and emotional stability. John and Patsy admitt they choose to redirect their lives and live for the moment as a result of Patsy's health. 'Living for the moment' and living for today to me conjures up a cartoon type existence where little matters, nothing is permanent, even death. Those cartoon characters are never dead forever... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "It is not very" Posted by Watching you on 06:24:44 8/23/2001 honest of anyone to say there was "nothing in Patsy's past" that would lead anyone to think she could hurt/kill her daughter. As I have said many times before, I do not know who killed JBR, but I believe (I have that right, you know) she and John Ramsey were either involved or know who did kill her. I further believe there was no one else in that house that night. When I say "not very honest," I refer to the fact that the people who are saying this never lived with Patsy Ramsey and have no idea what went on behind closed doors. Even JR's older children, who have stood up for John and Patsy, did not live with them on a daily basis. What any outsider saw (including John's children from a previous marriage) was what John and Patsy wanted them to see. It seems to me there are more and more tragedies involving the killing of children by their parents. Is that really so, I wonder, or is it that it was less publicized in years gone by. It doesn't seem to make any difference to supporters of John and Patsy who say there was no history of abuse in that family that that "history" might well be hidden from outside eyes. It also doesn't seem to matter that there doesn't have to be any history. It can be history in the making, in fact, because there has to be a first time for everything, even abuse. This history defense doesn't mean much to me. I don't think Patsy or John beat their children by any means. I don't think they physically abused them, although I admit I am ambivalent about sexual abuse. One can't really be sure about that because of the conflicting opinions given about the results of the autopsy. It is my opinion that if there were sexual abuse going on around that time, it may have been something that had only recently begun. I suppose if we knew the answer to that, a lot of other answers might become much clearer. There are other, more subtle, forms of abuse to a child. On the whole, I really think the Ramsey children had everything money could buy and were, from what I can see, pretty spoiled. Patsy is all about image - her children would have had to be the best, the prettiest, the brightest, and the most loved. That was what was portrayed to the world. When those doors closed at night, no one but the Ramseys knew what went on. The no-history-of-abuse defense is not a defense at all. It is a smoke screen. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Of course you're right WY" Posted by v_p on 08:14:44 8/23/2001 >>>When those doors closed at night, no one but the Ramseys knew what went on.<<< And I'm sure this is another case of no one knows what transpired before. I've said before that if you were to ask Gai and Shee, they would tell you their friends and neighbors were probably clueless to the abuse. My brother was physically abused and if you ask him today, (his father died when he was 17), about his father, all he'll say... "He was a disciplinarian and kept us in line." I guess that's one way to put it... but it's a gross understatement. Although we know better, my sister and I never dispute this with him, we just let it go. No one talks about it EVER. I think, in my brother's case, he feels it would be a reflection on him to tell how things really were. I read somewhere, maybe WS, that if Burke had been abused he would surely have told someone that morning after hearing JonBenet was dead. I don't even think so... he would be terrified of telling, thinking he'd be next. Family and friends either don't know about the abuse and mental disorders, or they won't admit it for fear of incriminating the person who might be in trouble, (ie, PR & JR), even more. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "yep" Posted by Shee on 11:25:13 8/25/2001 that's what I'd say, alright. no one in our little post war single family housing development had a clue OR CARED. Sure they saw stuff, and gossiped or tittered, and NEVER did a thing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "What Ever Happened To...." Posted by Voyager on 08:46:57 8/23/2001 the records from Children Protective Services in Boulder that were talked about earlier in this case....it was rumored that there was one or more reports concerning the Ramsey children filed with the Children Protective Services (I may not be using the exact, correct name of their department, as those department names vary some from state to state).... I do remember though that it was talked about on the forums and that we could get no futher information on those records because they were "sealed".... I wonder if this "no previous indication of family violence" defense becomes an issue in a trial, if these records could be unsealed for the court and used in evidence against the Ramseys.... Does anyone remember anything more specific about those records, and were they brought up in any of the published books about the Ramseys? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "I agree, v_p" Posted by Watching you on 08:45:05 8/23/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:45:05, 8/23/2001 that children (even when they are grown up) don't tell the whole story of their abuse because they feel it reflects badly on themselves. That's a sad thing - no kid should ever have to feel responsible for what someone did to them. It is also true that kids don't tell - even kids who are getting the whoop beat out of them everyday don't tell, because they are afraid of being taken away from familiar circumstances. No matter what, that's still mom and dad, you know? And, there are other reasons - threats from the abuser is one. Another is the kid thinks if s/he just tries to do better, that abuser will love him/her more. Always the kid's fault. It's too bad people can't just take to heart that old saying - don't hit anyone who is smaller than you are. It would be nice if nobody ever had to hit anyone, but at least the fight would be even. Kids ought to be able to grow up without being afraid every minute of their lives. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "I've always thought the "lack of history"" Posted by Ayeka on 10:43:24 8/23/2001 was a smokescreen, too, and thank you, WY, for so eloquently putting into words why. I have mentioned this before, and WY might actually even remember this happening (since it was western NY). The well-liked valedictorian of my high school class, a fairly nice guy that I saw every (school) day for four years, bludgeoned his mother to death with a baseball bat on the day of our graduation, finally snapping after the years of abuse by his mother that no one ever knew about. No one. Not even close friends of mine that had dated him. Ayeka [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Ayeka ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Ayeka" Posted by Watching you on 10:46:12 8/23/2001 Yes, I most certainly do remember this incident, but halp me, Jesus, I can't remember where it happened. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Past" Posted by doScubie on 10:35:59 8/23/2001 Let's see... How about Lizzie Borden? Patsy Ramsey - Lizzie Borden, hmmmm.....?? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Socorro Caro" Posted by Country Girl on 11:13:19 8/23/2001 Trial just starting here...mother accused of killing her three sons. http://www.latimes.com/editions/ventura/la-000068381aug23.column?coll=la%2Deditions%2Dventura [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "I have to admit" Posted by Nedthan Johns on 16:32:00 8/23/2001 even with the DNA testing, it would me nothing in this trial, after all the Child STILL had the mothers hair clenched in her fist. I don't believe this is the case with the Ramsey's. We clearly have male DNA in three sepearte places, AND evidence that someone may have entered the home. But interesting article, to say the least. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "The challange" Posted by Ellique on 16:48:13 8/23/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:48:13, 8/23/2001 was for someone, anyone to find a sordid, mental instability, or whatever, if Patsy had one which ultimately led to her killing her child. Citing others' past and their misdeeds later does nopt satisfy the challenge. Any kind of past is possible or even probable but the challenge remains. Find it, verify it and pass it along to back up your claim that Patsy's past led her to killing JonBenet. Love Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "(c) Nedd" Posted by JR on 16:35:58 8/23/2001 I am very proud of your new posting manner! Thank you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Ned" Posted by v_p on 16:39:25 8/23/2001 Read the article again... the hair was not her mothers. And you are right, this is not like the Rams in the sense that this poor woman didn't have the money to lawyer up. She'd be free as a bird if she'd just been rich. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "ah ellie," Posted by v_p on 17:47:46 8/23/2001 You just gave yourself away... ;o) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "(c) Ellique" Posted by JR on 18:06:54 8/23/2001 How about this Ellique. Patsy was on major drugs allegedly for cancer therapy. These drugs poison the system in order to kill the cancer. IMHO, she didn't need to have a "past history." Any time you muck with drugs prescription or not, you change your bodies chemical process and that can change the brain cells. Add to that a very stressful time such as Christmas and you never know what havoc one might cause IMHO. Criminey, L, when I quit smoking cold turkey I had a major chemical imbalance for three months. I don't want to go into it here but I am sure there is plenty of documentation to back up how situations like this can alter the mind. Look at the Houston mom for an example. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Patser's past" Posted by austingirl on 19:36:57 8/23/2001 There doesn't have to be anything in Patsy's past, demonstrable or not, for her to have committed this murder. It is ludicrous for the RST to keep issuing this challenge. No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Everyday in this country crimes are commmitted and the neighbors and friends are interviewed and exclaim, "I can't believe it. She seemed like the nicest person, always waved when she picked up the mail, made every PTA meeting, yada, yada, yada...." Let's get real, people. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "You'd think" Posted by Ally on 19:47:56 8/23/2001 people would be stunned by the extent of the pageant preparation, and wonder about it. From the day she was born.. "I have a little pageant person!" Patsy wrote. Bleached blonde hair. Contact enhanced eyes. Thou$and$ on costumes, dance lessons, photo sessions. Professional pictures, and videos. What IS it with this woman?! Her child isn't THAT talented, although her beauty cannot be disputed. And, what's the rest of the story on Patsy Ramsey's behavior while on jury duty the month before, just ONE MONTH before her daughter was murdered? I think if people are looking for priors, they could find them. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "austingirl" Posted by Thor on 19:42:51 8/23/2001 You go, austingirl. This is a point that is made repeatedly and I get sick & tired of hearing it from Team Ramsey. I doesn't mean squat. Look at the cases of all these poor children being kept in closets like animals for years & years and people didn't know. You cannot say that your past makes a difference, a lot of stuff goes on behind closed doors. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Same old same old" Posted by Ellique on 21:11:26 8/23/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 21:11:26, 8/23/2001 Yes it could be this, could cause that, drugs, and stress, infidelity this infidenity that. But the challenge remains. It isn't good enought to site studies and personal experiences. What the challenge was about was getting the facts about Patsy having a past history that led her to kill. Leave the possibilities, probabilities, could haves, must haves and all the other opinions of a general nature out of it. The highest and best evidence would come from a friend, associate, family member who had up close and personal knowledge of Patsy's emotional history. Another good source could be from a professional who treated patsy. I wonder why NO ONE and I mean NO ONE, including detectives, has been able to come up with anything in patsy's past to support the outrageous claims being made about her. Love Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Geesh Ellique" Posted by ddown on 08:06:41 8/24/2001 No one and I mean NO ONE needs a prior past documented or not documented to commit murder. It happens all the time. This challenge to demonstrate a documented past of psyhcopathic illness is just a smoke screen excuse. I thought the challenge was weak when it was first tossed out by the R's. Even they had to know that people without pathology snap and kill. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL ddown ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Hey, Ellique sweetie" Posted by Thor on 21:13:22 8/23/2001 I'm not so sure Patsy did this. Really, I just think there is some guilty knowledge going on here. I have no doubt. I'm just saying that some people have skeletons in their closets and not everyone knows everything going on in people's houses. I happen to think this crime was committed by a male, Ram or friend of a Ram, and that the Patster is in on the coverup for whatever odd reason. In fact, Patsy is on the low end of my scale as to who did this. So, my take on this is just a little different but people can do weirdass things behind doors. Love you too, Thor (really, Ell, you're one of a kind) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Ellique" Posted by austingirl on 21:10:50 8/23/2001 Read post #19 and take a chill pill. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "AG" Posted by Ellique on 21:13:07 8/23/2001 SO? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Ellique" Posted by v_p on 21:51:15 8/23/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 21:51:15, 8/23/2001 Patsy had been under a lot of pressure. Women would know more about "losing it" from stress over responsibilities, aging, husband paying no attention to her, middle age spread, daughter back-talking her.... list goes on. There are some things a male worm farmer just wouldn't understand. With all due respect, I don't see worm farming as being a high-stress occupation. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "(c) Who's challenge?" Posted by JR on 22:11:54 8/23/2001 It doesn't much matter what we say anyway. Money can hide a lot of sins Ellique - you should know that. Not to say there were any but it doesn't surprise me nothing can be found either. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Hahaha, old El" Posted by Watching you on 05:05:53 8/24/2001 he's a sly one, isn't he. Come on, you guys, he's just asked us when we stopped beating our spouses, for gawd sake. It's designed to put everyone on the defensive - as if. If El wishes to issue a legitimate challenge, I'm sure there are several here who might oblige him. This, however, is an unprovable point because most of us never started beating our spouses. We're pretty quick here - I suspect most of us is going to get it. It's an unprovable challenge and he knows it. There's only common sense, and WY's got a good deal of that. By the way, El, can you prove there is nothing in Patsy's past to prove she could not do this? Please be factual - we wish to know the years you lived with her behind closed doors so that you are privy to all of her history, not just her public history. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Proof" Posted by Ellique on 06:15:45 8/24/2001 Who said anything about proof? Love Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "And that's not what" Posted by Watching you on 06:36:08 8/24/2001 you're asking from us? Okay, as an insider, that is, someone who has lived with Patsy all her over 40 years, you have knowledge that the rest of us couldn't have. No? Could you then tell us all the wonderful traits that Patsy possesses, from your inside knowledge, of course, that tells you she could not have committed this crime. No proof. Just everything you have observed with your own eyes. That should suffice. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "WY" Posted by Ayeka on 08:54:44 8/24/2001 Niagara Falls. Re: Ellique's 'challenge', nope, not biting, because there can be a lot of chit going on inside one's head that one learns to control, master, and not let the outside world see. The only way we'd ever learn about it, if it were so, would be out of Patsy's own mouth. And that likely would not happen. Ally, where did you hear about this "jury duty"? Please elaborate. I have never heard this before and am darn curious. Ayeka [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Ayeka" Posted by Tricia on 09:08:19 8/24/2001 Hi! I remember something about jury duty. I hesitate to speculate because I could be way off base. Besides I know some sharp JW person will have the scoop:) Ellique, how do you know the detectives haven't found anything in Patsy's past? Just because it hasn't been made public doesn't mean it's not there. Tricia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "(c) Jury Duty" Posted by JR on 09:24:52 8/24/2001 There were references to it way back., but for the life of me, I don't remember the details. Singular's book perhaps? Something about her behavior and brassiness? Don't have time to check it out. Just taking a quit peek and have to head for the doc's office. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "V_P" Posted by Nedthan Johns on 13:06:02 8/24/2001 Read the article again... the hair was not her mothers. And you are right, this is not like the Rams in the sense that this poor woman didn't have the money to lawyer up. She'd be free as a bird if she'd just been rich. Nedd: No, it said there WAS hair from the mother and a hair that may NOT be hers. But certainly the child had the mothers hair in her fist. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Well folks" Posted by Nedthan Johns on 13:07:14 8/24/2001 This is my last post for awhile. Will miss you all. Hope to get back on line soon. Be good and don't fight now ya here? Take care -Ned [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "What?" Posted by ayelean on 18:07:49 8/24/2001 Maybe he found out the DNA was his? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Ayelean" Posted by KrayonC on 18:17:46 8/24/2001 I read on one of the other threads how you never get to talk Ramsey case with anybody in person. I feel the EXACT same way. Aren't you somewhere close by? We need a "Florida Do" Screw the champagne. I'm talking SHOTS. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL KrayonC ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Had anyone heard about this AG program before?" Posted by Dunvegan on 18:36:15 8/24/2001 From the "Boulder County Business Report," Feb 1997 http://www.bcbr.com/feb97/digest3.htm CONTRACTS Boulder's Access Graphics Inc. is the newest member of the Boulder Business Dependent Care Association. Access Graphics employees and other members can choose from a package of programs that includes subsidized sick and emergency back-up care for children in their homes, child-care resource referral service, discounts at child-care centers statewide, vouchers for child-care programs and assistance locating adult and elder care services nationwide. For information on the BBDCA, call 888-610-CARE (2273). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Patsy's Past" Posted by Ellique on 20:21:04 8/24/2001 I am glad that we have Patsy's past wrapped up and I am very happy to know that y'all see it my way. Love Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "just curious ellique" Posted by purr on 20:38:56 8/24/2001 and i am not being silly.... i want to ask you some questions. i would like a sincere answer. i'll ask several questions...and some of the same questions several ways. what if anything do you think the Ramsey's are quilty of? do you feel they have been unethical at all? do you feel that they are outstanding examples of christians or they too have fallen short and sinned like most of us? do you think they are 100% innocent? or do you think they know something about jonbenet's death? why do you think they lied about burke being awake during the 911 call? what were they covering up? do you think they are really looking for jonbenet's killer? do you think that has been high on their priority list? do you admire the ramsey's? what should or could they have done differently to help the investigation? again, just curious on your opinions. thanks, purr [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "Purr's questions answered by Ellique" Posted by Ellique on 01:02:52 8/25/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 01:02:52, 8/25/2001 READ POST NO 44 first ELLIQUE'S ANSWERS CONTINUED SCROLL DOWN and i am not being silly....i want >to ask you some questions. >i would like a sincere answer. >i'll ask several questions...and some of the >same questions several ways. >what if anything do you think the >Ramsey's are quilty of? >do you feel they have been unethical >at all? >do you feel that they are outstanding >examples ofchristians or they too have >fallen short and sinned like most >of us? >do you think they are 100% innocent?or >do you think they know something >aboutjonbenet's death? >why do you think they lied about >burke being awake during the 911 >call?what were they covering up? >do you think they are really looking >for jonbenet's killer? do you think >that has beenhigh on their priority >list? YES >do you admire the ramsey's? WHAT IS TO ADMIRE OR DISRESPECT ABOUT THEM. YOUR QUESTION MAKES NO SENSE TO ME. I DON'T EVEN KNOW THEM. >what should or could they have done >differently to help the investigation? LORD ONLY KNOWS, I DON'T. >again, just curious on your opinions. >thanks, purr YOU BET PURR, NO PROBLEM. GLAD TO CLEAR ALL OF THAT UP FOR YOU. LOVE ELLIQUE [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Purr" Posted by Ellique on 00:50:17 8/25/2001 >and i am not being silly....i want >to ask you some questions. >i would like a sincere answer. >i'll ask several questions...and some of the >same questions several ways. MY RRESPONSES ARE IN CAPS >what if anything do you think the >Ramsey's are quilty of? NOTHING >do you feel they have been unethical >at all? NOT FROM MY VIEWPOINT >do you feel that they are outstanding >examples ofchristians or they too have >fallen short and sinned like most >of us? I AM NOT THEIR JUDGE >do you think they are 100% innocent? YES. >or do you think they know something >aboutjonbenet's death? HER DEATH, WHO AND WHY THEY KILLED HER. NO >why do you think they lied about >burke being awake during the 911 >call?what were they covering up? IF BURKE TOLD THEM HE WAS ASLEEP AND/OR BURKE FAKED BEING ASLEEP,HOW WERE THEY TO KNOW? BESIDES IT IS A NON ISSUE ANYWAY. THE PARENTS CORRECTED THEMSELVES AFTER BURKE REVEALED TO HIS PARENTS AND THE GJ. WHERE DO YOU SEE A LIE? WHERE DO YOU SEE INTENT TO LIE. A VERY LARGE PART OF WHETHER OR NOT TO LABEL ANYONE AS A LIAR IS TO EXAMINE THEIR INTENT. WHY DO YOU WANT TO REHASH THAT ANYWAY. IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY PROBATIVE VALUE TO START WITH. I will respond to your other questions in my next post [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "I think.." Posted by Phantom on 21:24:55 8/24/2001 >and i am not being silly....i want >to ask you some questions. >i would like a sincere answer. >i'll ask several questions...and some of the >same questions several ways. >what if anything do you think the >Ramsey's are quilty of? Feeling too superior and too safe by not using the alarms. >do you feel they have been unethical >at all? Unethical? I think they made the pagents look better with Jonbenet in them and by how she acted and dressed, then in the other few pagents I've seen on tv. (Nope, and still don't see anything sexual acting of JonBenet.) >do you feel that they are outstanding >examples ofchristians or they too have >fallen short and sinned like most >of us? Who the heck are outstanding Christians? >do you think they are 100% innocent?or >do you think they know something >aboutjonbenet's death? I think they are %100 innocent of JonBenet's murder and her murderer. >why do you think they lied about >burke being awake during the 911 >call?what were they covering up? Not sure what the facts are about the "911 call." >do you think they are really looking >for jonbenet's killer? do you think >that has beenhigh on their priority >list? I don't know how they can really look for the murderer, except by listening and watching any and all people they might find that are known by anyone they know or that knows info about them. >do you admire the ramsey's? Some. >what should or could they have done >differently tohelp the investigation? Gone to the F.B.I. themselves right away or to a profiler right away. >again, just curious on your opinions. >thanks, purr Sorry, know you didn't ask me, but wth? :-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "thanks phantom" Posted by purr on 21:45:10 8/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 21:45:10, 8/26/2001 for answering my questions too. i really am very curious to hear the answers of any person who is pro Ramsey. i am NOT pro Ramsey, but i try to understand what you are saying or thinking. all i know, is that i hope to God you are right! but, my gut tells me, and my brain tells me from reading all the evidence, that i humbly feel you are wrong. but, i am still open to hear anything and everything you have to say........and always will. because NO one knows what happened.....NO one except JonBenet and the killer/killers. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "purr..." Posted by LurkerXIV on 20:44:37 8/24/2001 ...that stomping sound you hear is Ellique hotfooting it out of here before he has to answer any questions that might reveal his true agenda. kinda like Condit with Connie Chung.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Kurkerxiv" Posted by Ellique on 01:09:20 8/25/2001 Those questions were a piece of cake. And another thing, Lurker, Ellique cannot STOMP. At my age and physical status, I count myself lucky to be able to shuffle. Thanks for your interest in me. Good to see all JWers finally coming around. Love Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "AND ANOTHE THING , PURR AND/OR LURKERXIV" Posted by Ellique on 01:13:18 8/25/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 01:13:18, 8/25/2001 WHAT ARE Y'ALL DOING UP THIS LATE? DO YOU REALIZE THAT IS 3:12 on the left hand side. Love Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "ha, i love staying up late........" Posted by purr on 21:47:09 8/26/2001 you know.....like i used to when i was a teenager/college student/in my 30's. i just love, love it.......i wish i could do it every night........stay up late. but alas, i work during the week. by the way.......you arent my father!!!! heeeeeeeeeee heeeeeeeeeeeee [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "(c) Ellique" Posted by JR on 02:22:06 8/25/2001 Lique - do you really mean "PROBATIVE" in post #44 or is that "prohibitive" value you are referring to? Just trying to clarify your answer in my own aging brain here. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "(c) Ellique" Posted by JR on 02:37:08 8/25/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 02:37:08, 8/25/2001 My favorite and best boss (fantastic motivator too) was a man born and raised in Italy. When he came to the States, he spent each and every day reading the dictionary, learning five new words (spelling and definition/s) and forced his children to do the same. He has a better command of the English language than most of us can ever hope to have. I would bet he still does this if able but shortly before I moved from Calif. he (at close to your age) fell out of one of his palm trees when trying to trim it and hit his head on a metal bench beneath the tree. He had just gone home from rehabilitation when I moved. I stay in touch though not as actively as I should so I have not been able to keep up with his shenanigans. I would bet that he still has his well worn dictionary and is still learning those five words if he is now able to once again. Your hard head reminds me of his so much. Never did teach that adorable man to spell "complete." ;-) Edited to say: I should not have taken a nap this afternoon. Off to work on my web site. Say good night Lique. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "JR" Posted by Ellique on 06:59:34 8/25/2001 Damn, I was going so slow and not letting my mind catch up with my fingers. And the sad part about it is that it is not going to get any better. PROBATIVE, of course. Geeeeeeessscccch !!!! Thanks a million, JR. Love, Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Re: the 911 call" Posted by v_p on 08:08:03 8/25/2001 >>>WHERE DO YOU SEE A LIE? WHERE DO YOU SEE INTENT TO LIE. <<< Ellie, the 911 tape has Burke's voice on it. It has JR's voice on the tape talking back to Burke. They knew full well they were lying when they said he was asleep in the first place. This is just one of many lies.. oh, excuse me, inconsistencies, from PR & JR. I understand why they allow the wing-nut to be their mouth-piece, they have no problem with shedding the truth and wearing lies. I also think Jammy and Condit were cut from the same mold, (and most defense lawyers). They seem to actually believe people are buying their crap... and some are. If it weren't for gullible people, what would be the fate of infomercials? All IMO, of course. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "V_P, my lieblin (sp)" Posted by Ellique on 10:46:49 8/25/2001 Now you know as well as I do that their voices being on that tape HAS NOT BEEN established. Except for those who WANT TO BELIEVE the voices are there, such as ST and a few others, NOBODY, including the expert technicians, have been able to make out all the reported jibberish. You now, "It don't mean a thang if it ain't got that twang". Good try V-P, but no cigar. I win, Gdby Love Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "i know this may surprise you ellique, but" Posted by purr on 22:00:15 8/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:00:15, 8/26/2001 i heard the tape. i heard the tape on geraldo's old talk show. he did a show where he did a mock jury for and against the Ramseys. he had lawyers representing each side. and the lawyers presented evidence. one lawyer played the 911 tape. the words were difficult to understand so the producer put words at the bottom of the screen for the viewers to read. i have been trying to get a hold of that old transcript to prove that i heard it, but alas, i have not found it yet. a while back on another forum, there were others that swore they heard the tape too. i swear on a bible i heard it on geraldo's show. i think after that ......because it was evidence, the police didnt allow anyone to play the tape of it anymore. actually, im not sure why it has not been released anymore. but, i agree with v_p. she knows her evidence. john knew he was lying about NOT talking to burke. because on the tape, john was heard talking directly to burke...and then burke answered john back. why did they lie about that? if that was their only lie.....i might not believe they were guilty, but they have lied over and over......and thus, i do NOT admire the Ramseys! ellique, i feel you did NOT answer all my questions. in fact, you made mud out of the questions you thought were...easy as cake! but i'll be happy to listen to them......if you try to answer them all again. ellique, are you saying Love, Ellique to be funny or do you really mean it?? it is NOT a word that should be used lightly..... in my humble opinion! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "(c) Ahhhh VP" Posted by JR on 08:18:24 8/25/2001 Dear old Ellique ain't gullible he's just hard headed. In fact he purposely reminds us of that with each and every post don't you Lique? ;-\ I do have a questions for you thought "L," have you written a macro for your last lines yet? Sure saves on all that typing or cutting and pasting. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "JR" Posted by Ellique on 10:52:57 8/25/2001 Are you talking about "Love, Elllique" or are you talking about how I can do my post away from the board and then proof it before posting it? I think you mean the latter. BTW, you don't mind if I call it SOP in stead of macro do you? Why don't you write it up and send it to you know where. I think you have already done this for me but I must have lost the printout or something cause I can't find it anywhere Love Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "OK Ellie, you win...." Posted by v_p on 11:40:14 8/25/2001 http://www.thedailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1998/21ramsey.html http://63.147.65.175/news/jon0822a.htm http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:DlLHHJhfug4:www.longmontfyi.com/Ramsey/Start_of_99/06_02_99/06_02_99.html+Burke+Ramsey+%2B+911+tape&hl=en http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:5XucNnnvVAs:www.denver-rmn.com/extra/ramsey/0917rams1.html+Burke+Ramsey+%2B+911+tape&hl=en "But authorities do have a sound enhancement of the 911 tape that recorded Patsy Ramsey's call at 5:52 a.m. on Dec. 26, 1996. She never hung up the phone after finishing her call, allowing a short amount of subsequent conversation to be recorded. A sound enhancement of the tape revealed the voices of John Ramsey and his then-10-year-old son, Burke, in the background. Police have considered the tape significant because John and Patsy Ramsey, JonBenet's parents, insisted to investigators and prosecutors from the district attorney's office in July that Burke was asleep when Patsy Ramsey called 911 to report her daughter missing." http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:tIV35igro5g:www.crimemagazine.com/jonbenet.htm+Burke+Ramsey+%2B+911+tape&hl=en "When the details of the phone conversation were published, Hal Haddon, attorney for John Ramsey, said: "This vicious leak is one more example of the pattern of official misconduct which has characterized this investigation for the past 19 months. Police sources leak what they claim is critical evidence and spin it against the Ramseys. The Ramseys are helpless to reply because they do not have access to the evidence." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~ What do you win Ellie? It's all about winning isn't it? Interview tug-of-wars, Beauty Pageants, etc. The Rams, as far as I can see, have never denied Burke's voice on the tape... they've simply spun it every which way but loose. I think at one time they even said the Police could have been responsible for "creative" enhancing... but still, no denial. You can win Ellie if it's that important to you.. wouldn't want you to lose your temper :o) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "Good sportsmanship" Posted by Ellique on 12:03:19 8/25/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 12:03:19, 8/25/2001 V_P: Although you didn't win this one, I do appreciate you being a good sport about it. Love, Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "Did you" Posted by Watching you on 12:24:01 8/25/2001 know watermelon has more potassium than bananas do? Yes, I know I'm off-subject. So sue me. Might as well post off subject for all the denial going on around here. Good posts, v_p, JR. Wasted, though. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "Watching you" Posted by Ellique on 14:55:37 8/25/2001 Source please? Love, Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "Watching You, I forgot to ask you !!" Posted by Ellique on 15:02:34 8/25/2001 When your potassium is low and your doctor prescribes 2 bananas a day, does that mean you would probably have to eat 2 watermelons per day or just 1 great big old watermelon each day. Bananas are a whole lot cheaper, aren't they? Love, Ellique [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "Source =" Posted by Watching you on 15:38:04 8/25/2001 FIRST magazine. A little dabbledoya. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "(c) Ellique" Posted by JR on 17:27:57 8/25/2001 Let me see if I saved the post and I will repost it. I don't write macros - sorry. I had a staff that took care of that for me so I never got proficient at it. Also haven't had that particular training cource is VR - the instructor still owes me a couple of classes - thanks for reminding me. ;-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "Purr," Posted by Phantom on 21:59:58 8/26/2001 I think what everything comes down to is how you perceive what the note means. The second is how JonBenet was murdered.(What was done to her) Some believe that with a few facts mentioned that the Rams had to have written it. I think that almost anyone could have known about those few facts so could have written the note. People can only guess that there must have been some kind of abuse on Patricia's side of the family, but it is only a guess that would make all the other guesses work, for trying to prove that the Rams murdered JonBenet. And I think, besides the way, it cannot prove anything, it totally messes up any kind of re-creating a probable senario of what really happened. I don't beleive there was any molestations of Jonbenet, no accident, no created deversion of the murder and the writting of the ransom note. Except by the murderer, on the day of her murder. The note was planned, so the murder had to have been planned. JonBenet choosen for the target. That means that whoever murdered Jonbenet has some kind of background for some kind of crime.(s) And that just doesn't not point to the Rams. I don't think Blake murdered his wife either. I think that O.J. didn't murder Nicole. I think people will realise that more and more murders are from strangers, and not someone the victim knew,as in the past. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "phantom, i hear what you are saying........." Posted by purr on 22:11:58 8/26/2001 but i feel that you are misinformed. over 75% of people that are murdered.....they are murdered by someone they know close and personal.....a friend or a family member. these are usually crimes of passion. it is just a fact. ask any fbi profiler. and you dont think that the ramsey's wrote that note. well, you need to discuss the note with a handwriting expert. per the experts Patsy is the only one of all the suspects who can NOT be excluded from writing that note. and what about this? jonbenet was found with her favorite blanket favorite nightgown. per fbi profilers, covering up a victim with comforting items is only done by someone who knew the victim personally. a true kidnapper/pedophile would NOT have killed the victim as her own house. they would have knabbed their victim out on the street.....or at the very least.......taken 7 minutes or less to get their victim out of the house, and they would be on their way. again, the fbi have studied crimes over and over. they are experts in this kind of stuff! and if an intruder was in the house. the intruder left no fibers, no hairs, no urine (they had to pee if they were there over 10 hours, dont you think?) no major footprints, no mud, no ice, no water, no fingerprints, no nothing. that is almost impossible at any crime scene. i really have a hard time understanding your denial of the facts of the case. but i promise to keep open minded and listen to all you say. i hope to God the Ramseys didnt do it, but the evidence is so overpowering!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "Again..." Posted by Phantom on 12:20:20 8/27/2001 >over 75% of people that are murdered.....they >are murdered by someone they know >close and personal.....a friend or a >family member. these are usually crimes >of passion. I don't know purr, it seems there are more and more murders done to victims that aren't even known to the murderers. From Gay killings to child kidnapping/murders to serial killings. I just don't automatically think that when there's a murder, it's going to be from someone known to the victim. And profiling is basically made up from statistics, and there's only so much credibility you can have from them. >and you dont think that the ramsey's >wrote that note. well, you need >to discuss the note witha handwriting >expert. per the experts Patsy is >the only one of all the >suspectswho can NOT be excluded from >writing that note. The fact that P Ramsey can't be elliminated from writting the note, doesn't prove that she wrote it either. I don't remember for sure, but wasn't it said that P Ramsey had less than a 1 (from 1-5, or something like that)for a possiblility in writting the note? That's not proof to me that she wrote the note. Shoot, I don't remember what she was found with. But the nightgown could have bed on or near the bed, since it was her favorite, and she probably slept in it a lot. Favorite blanket? You'll need to point me to the facts somewhere, I was never sure what they were because the "facts" kept changing.... But I think since she was put in the little room, for not being found soon, ANYONE who did it would be smart enough to toss a blanket or something over her , thus might making it a little harder to find her. >and what about this?jonbenet was found with >her favorite blanket favorite nightgown. per >fbi profilers, covering up a victim >with comforting items is only done >by someone who knew the victim >personally. Now this is really weird. How would anyone know exactly what murderer would or would not do? There have been victims taken from their homes, victims not taken from their homes and victims taken off properties or off the streets. How can you say that it could have been done only one way???/ >a true kidnapper/pedophile would NOT have killedthe >victim as her own house. they >would have knabbed their victim out >on the street.....or at the very >least.......taken 7 minutes or less to >get their victim out of the >house, and they would be on >their way. again, the fbi have >studied crimes over and over. they >are experts in this kind of >stuff! I doubt the murderer was in the house for 10 hours. He could have gotten in and been in for less then 1 hour, I think. There wasn't any snow next to the house or at least none on the walkways. And with people wandering around the house, some evidence could have been messed-up. >and if an intruder was in the >house. the intruder left no fibers, >no hairs, no urine (they had >to pee if they were there >over 10 hours, dont you think?) >no major footprints, no mud, no >ice, no water, no fingerprints, >no nothing. that is almost impossible >at any crime scene. See, I really don't deny the facts in this case. They just don't add up to me to mean that the parents did it. I'd really like to know what exactly are the facts! There's been so much crap leaked from the police that turned out to be false, that I am a hard sell as to what the real facts are. >i really have a hard time understanding >your denial of the facts of >the case. I'm glad becasue it's hard to only talk to myself when no one else will try to listen and understand why I see it the way I do. >but i promise to keep open minded >and listen to all you say. To me, there is no compelling evidence that the Rams did it. But I understand why some think they did. >i hope to God the Ramseys didnt >do it, but the evidence is >so overpowering!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 69. "my two cents" Posted by Shy on 21:31:49 8/27/2001 Anybody who has to paint and repaint a living room five times just to get the right shade of off-white has gone beyond perfectionistic and the "because I can" of people for whom money is no object. There's something pathological there... And what of the alleged confused and inappropriate criticism of the players in the case she heard as a juror? Now, if you were there and someone did that, would you not be thinking "cuckoo for Cocoapuffs" and be making little circles at your temple with your pointer finger? Just the tip of the iceberg... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 70. "Shy!!" Posted by Bets on 21:36:24 8/27/2001 Is that you? The poster formerly known as Shylurk? How are ya and how are the kids? Bets aka Sharon [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 71. "Hi, Bets! :)" Posted by Shy on 22:13:50 8/27/2001 Yup, it is I! What are you doing with that hat, have you taken up gambling? Or are you trying to be more like Betsy? The kids are great--I can hardly believe that we start 2nd grade and Kindergarten in, oh, about 8 hours...think I ought to get to bed? And how are you all? I just had to come out of the woodwork to hold forth on PR's mental state, you know...some things never change. Do you still have the same email? I do. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 72. "there it is again" Posted by DebDeb on 09:39:32 8/28/2001 the alleged jury duty incident. I don't know how I don't know anything about this. Can someone please either tell the story or point me in the direction of where I can read about it myself. I think someone said it may be Singular's book. I didn't read that one, but if it's for sure in there please let me know and I'll scoot out and get it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 74. "For DebDeb" Posted by Shy on 18:18:25 8/28/2001 Try this link to learn about the jury thing: denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0329jon1.htm "Bets"--I'll get to you later :) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 73. "SHY!" Posted by Bets on 10:34:23 8/28/2001 I lost your email in a long ago computer crash....but mine is still the same. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 75. "Shy" Posted by DebDeb on 09:03:47 8/29/2001 Thank you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE