Justice Watch "RAGE!" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... RAGE!, Jellyjaws, 15:47:10, 9/15/2001 Move over, Jelly, Watching you, 16:13:37, 9/15/2001, (#1) you gotta right nyc, Shee, 16:30:48, 9/15/2001, (#2) HA!, Jellyjaws, 17:47:57, 9/15/2001, (#3) Jellyjaws and WY, Real Stormy, 18:10:10, 9/15/2001, (#4) Jelly, Shee, WY & Real Stormy, Thor, 18:18:11, 9/15/2001, (#5) Thor, zapata, 19:43:28, 9/19/2001, (#101) Policemen, Harley, 18:59:34, 9/15/2001, (#7) R.S., Mini, 18:53:19, 9/15/2001, (#6) Jellyjaws,, LurkerXIV, 19:21:40, 9/15/2001, (#9) Excuse me if I must..., Colorado Babe, 19:20:54, 9/15/2001, (#8) thanking colorado babe for serving the U.S.A.!, purr, 20:14:39, 9/15/2001, (#13) Ah, Lurker, Jellyjaws, 19:51:12, 9/15/2001, (#11) And that, Mini, Real Stormy, 19:47:53, 9/15/2001, (#10) R.S., Mini, 20:01:58, 9/15/2001, (#12) Mini, Real Stormy, 20:24:35, 9/15/2001, (#14) I agree, Bitsy, 20:41:48, 9/15/2001, (#16) Tragedy, doScubie, 20:37:55, 9/15/2001, (#15) R.S., Mini, 20:51:29, 9/15/2001, (#17) Rage in a box..., Greenleaf, 21:09:20, 9/15/2001, (#18) I don't believe some......, bootz913, 23:51:57, 9/15/2001, (#20) Thoughts, v_p, 21:32:25, 9/15/2001, (#19) Well, I don't know, Watching you, 05:39:08, 9/16/2001, (#22) Colorado Babe...I salute you, and pray for you..., Dunvegan, 05:20:03, 9/16/2001, (#21) Colorado Babe, Watching you, 05:48:15, 9/16/2001, (#23) Colorado Babe, RiverRat, 07:07:12, 9/16/2001, (#24) bootz, v_p, 08:33:55, 9/16/2001, (#25) Morning, Jellyjaws, 09:11:30, 9/16/2001, (#26) sad today, Shee, 10:08:37, 9/16/2001, (#27) Shee, Jellyjaws, 10:49:49, 9/16/2001, (#28) Walt Whitman, v_p, 11:30:45, 9/16/2001, (#29) Oh, V_p, Jellyjaws, 12:04:12, 9/16/2001, (#30) It might be important, Gemini, 12:52:53, 9/16/2001, (#31) History ..., Mandarin, 15:42:30, 9/16/2001, (#33) Kindly note, Gem, Real Stormy, 15:34:03, 9/16/2001, (#32) RS, Gemini, 15:59:27, 9/16/2001, (#34) Mandarin, Gemini, 16:26:25, 9/16/2001, (#35) Anger into Action, MrsBrady, 16:39:44, 9/16/2001, (#36) Gem and Mandarin, Mini, 16:53:34, 9/16/2001, (#37) Dunvegan, Jellyjaws, 17:22:05, 9/16/2001, (#38) mandarin, v_p, 17:42:00, 9/16/2001, (#39) Go for it Brady, Real Stormy, 17:49:20, 9/16/2001, (#40) Trying to imagine the # of people, v_p, 18:23:42, 9/16/2001, (#41) Criticize our heros?, Country Girl, 19:07:48, 9/16/2001, (#42) While I understand, bootz913, 20:25:35, 9/16/2001, (#43) So many heroes, Real Stormy, 21:49:19, 9/16/2001, (#44) v.p., Mandarin, 22:23:36, 9/16/2001, (#45) Buffalo firefighters, Watching you, 05:08:11, 9/17/2001, (#46) Speaking of Rage, Ally, 06:00:25, 9/17/2001, (#47) madarin, v_p, 06:45:22, 9/17/2001, (#48) Well..., freebird, 07:17:22, 9/17/2001, (#49) Kobayashi Maru, Ayeka, 11:31:43, 9/17/2001, (#50) Ayeka, pope, 15:10:36, 9/17/2001, (#51) Absolutely, Pope..and Ms B., Mels, 16:07:55, 9/17/2001, (#53) ayeka, v_p, 15:33:39, 9/17/2001, (#52) Forgiveness, Flanagan, 17:25:33, 9/17/2001, (#54) Great Creative Writing..., LurkerXIV, 19:13:22, 9/17/2001, (#71) LOL, samantha, 07:49:01, 9/21/2001, (#108) flanagan, v_p, 17:38:59, 9/17/2001, (#55) My God, Watching you, 17:49:58, 9/17/2001, (#56) Yes WY, Real Stormy, 18:03:16, 9/17/2001, (#59) At bin Laden's son's wedding, Watching you, 18:02:22, 9/17/2001, (#58) v_p, Flanagan, 18:01:39, 9/17/2001, (#57) Flanagan, Real Stormy, 18:06:43, 9/17/2001, (#61) Bin Laden, Watching you, 18:06:06, 9/17/2001, (#60) *sniff*, v_p, 18:26:35, 9/17/2001, (#63) I smell candy, too, Watching you, 18:31:27, 9/17/2001, (#65) Flanagan, Mini, 18:23:15, 9/17/2001, (#62) I know that the U.S., Ev, 18:51:22, 9/17/2001, (#68) mini, v_p, 18:34:28, 9/17/2001, (#66) Mini, Watching you, 18:30:22, 9/17/2001, (#64) Never Mind, WY, Real Stormy, 18:39:09, 9/17/2001, (#67) mini, starry, 18:57:54, 9/17/2001, (#69) To my fans, Mini, 19:07:45, 9/17/2001, (#70) mini, starry, 04:03:32, 9/18/2001, (#76) I'm Sorry, Mini, Real Stormy, 19:17:28, 9/17/2001, (#72) R.S., Mini, 20:32:24, 9/17/2001, (#73) v.p., Mandarin, 00:38:57, 9/18/2001, (#74) Lurker, Flanagan, 03:42:02, 9/18/2001, (#75) Hi, Pedro,, LurkerXIV, 10:45:19, 9/18/2001, (#86) mini, Watching you, 04:54:07, 9/18/2001, (#77) Channeling my rage, Ally, 05:09:35, 9/18/2001, (#78) Mandarin, Harley, 05:44:35, 9/18/2001, (#79) Ally, Watching you, 05:51:11, 9/18/2001, (#80) Exactly!...., bootz913, 06:49:26, 9/18/2001, (#81) clearing the air, pinker, 08:06:08, 9/18/2001, (#82) Religious Tolerence includes tolerence..., Dunvegan, 09:54:45, 9/18/2001, (#83) Why?, Jerrya, 10:01:47, 9/18/2001, (#84) Not me!!, freebird, 10:27:59, 9/18/2001, (#85) To each his own, Watching you, 10:53:29, 9/18/2001, (#87) Tolerance, Flanagan, 11:11:52, 9/18/2001, (#88) Watching You, Mini, 11:40:18, 9/18/2001, (#91) Lurker, Flanagan, 11:24:56, 9/18/2001, (#89) She is too busy, RiverRat, 13:05:18, 9/18/2001, (#96) Flanagan, Watching you, 11:30:20, 9/18/2001, (#90) mini, Watching you, 11:47:12, 9/18/2001, (#92) In my own words?, Mini, 11:55:05, 9/18/2001, (#93) Agree to disagree? PLEASE?, Ayeka, 12:24:31, 9/18/2001, (#94) athiests, religionists, republicans, muslims, ever..., Shee, 12:49:48, 9/18/2001, (#95) Ayeka and mini, Ally, 13:48:12, 9/18/2001, (#97) Whats sad is. . ., freebird, 14:24:09, 9/18/2001, (#98) Please don't, Ally, 14:39:19, 9/18/2001, (#99) I can't believe, 1000Sparks, 07:07:43, 9/19/2001, (#100) Excellent Read, Colorado Babe, 09:20:46, 9/20/2001, (#102) Images, JR, 10:32:04, 9/20/2001, (#103) JR, i liked that site a lot !, purr, 20:00:15, 9/21/2001, (#109) Author Unknown, JR, 10:41:19, 9/20/2001, (#104) JR,, LurkerXIV, 17:48:05, 9/20/2001, (#106) Take Stock In America, JR, 11:52:31, 9/20/2001, (#105) grrrr..., samantha, 07:46:22, 9/21/2001, (#107) ................................................................... "RAGE!" Posted by Jellyjaws on 15:47:10 9/15/2001 Thank goodness I got moving today after going through the motions for days. I thought I was nuts. Now, I'm enraged. Dun, you may have to move this 'cause it ain't going to be pretty. For the life of me, I can't understand how a bunch of people living in caves and running around in sheets can do this to our country. Paranoid, grandious bastards! I'm furious, too, at our own government or, at least, at the liberal turn it's taken. Stick with the basics! Protect the boundries, print money, regulate interstate trade. (Guess you can tell I'm conservative!) We can move on to all this global stuff from there. Little things now are irking me to death. Inaccurate news coverage parlayed into ratings. Sheesh, I knew for hours that those "rescued" firefighters had fallen in only hours before. But, no. They breathlessly reported a "dramatic" rescue. And, I watched it. And, watched it. So much blood. So many anguished people wandering downtown. Giuliani, was right. It's going to be too much for us to bear. Chuck Shumer (sp.?) was right, too, to worry about his daughter. Her high school was only a couple of blocks form th towers. Frankly, I'm not a bit interested in whether or not Chelsea Clinton mussed her hair looking for a phone. Oh, Dun. I'm running out of steam. Don't anyone dare flame me. I'm from New York. I gotta right. I'm furious. My love goes to the people of Washington, D.C. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Move over, Jelly" Posted by Watching you on 16:13:37 9/15/2001 you're not the only one whos steaming. My rage stems from something a little different - where are the snipers who thought it was such fun to ridicule the IQ's of policemen and firemen not so long ago? I haven't seen any of them on the forum during this tragedy. I hope they are reading, because I want to stick it right in their faces - I don't see any IQ's written on the rescue workers' hard hats as they pull out muck and body parts. I didn't see any IQ's on the foreheads of those who ran back into that inferno to try to help others. I wonder how many IQ's will be used to identify the dead firemen who died trying to get people out of that building. I never want to hear about the IQ's of any of our firemen or policemen again. They are heroes. Oh, and one more thing. I'm damn glad that Texan is in the White House now. God Bless America, and God Bless George Bush. That's all for now. I may be back. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "you gotta right nyc" Posted by Shee on 16:30:48 9/15/2001 I haven't lived in northern NJ for 10 years, more, but New York is my home, I am a brooklyn girl at heart [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "HA!" Posted by Jellyjaws on 17:47:57 9/15/2001 Thank you, Brooklyn Shee. Let's toast a couple of Nathan's. :) WY, I don't know who made IQ remarks about our "salt of the earth" but it's too ignorant for a response. I do pray for President Bush and have confidence in him (I've since forgiven him for "japping" McCain). The American people seem to have elected a war time president just when we needed one. He's got himself a good war time consigliare, too: Colin Powell. It will be a different kind of war, but believe you me, I want vengence right now. If my reaction is any indication, they have, indeed, awakened, "the sleeping giant." I'm all over the place right now but it feels good to spew venon. Maybe we all need a good night's sleep. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Jellyjaws and WY" Posted by Real Stormy on 18:10:10 9/15/2001 I've been reading some of the posts at the new Attack forum and I thought I was in the Twilight Zone. Thank both of you for bringing this back to reality. I wonder how many of those wimps would spend five minutes doing what the police and firemen of NYC are doing? Hey, their cellphones might not work. They might break a nail. And, like Chelsea, they might get their hair mussed. In reading those posts, the thought that occurs is "Educated, but ignorant." When the going gets tough, the tough get going. I don't think they understand how tough the going is going to get. They are in for a very rude awakening. And save one of those Nathan's for me. I can eat weenies for breakfast. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Jelly, Shee, WY & Real Stormy" Posted by Thor on 18:18:11 9/15/2001 Don't worry, no flaming from Thor. I feel your rage big time!!! I am from Nebraska and have never known too many people from New York but I tell ya, I have a helluva lot of respect for you New Yorkers than ever before. My patriotism is at an all time high and my heart aches for you. It just makes me want to throw up that there are no more survivors than the few they found. Help me Jeezus it makes me mad. I too want vengeance big time. Loved WY's mentioning of Lin Baden and his camel riding on another thread. JJ, loved the sheets wearing thing too! I'm pissed and enraged. I say take 'em all out now! God bless Bush, I voted for him and am personally glad Der Schlieckmeister and AlGore (as Rush calls him) are not in orifice. I'd be scared. Go get 'em George!! And I love New York!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 101. "Thor" Posted by zapata on 19:43:28 9/19/2001 Great post! It would take a very hard heart not to be touched by this tragedy, our brave firemen/women (yes I say one just today) and policemen. How selfless they truly are. Clinton was given the information in December before his term expired in January as to the location of Bin Laden, he did not want to make waves, and chose not to send our men to get him even though the United Nations had issued a warrant for his arrest. Could he have prevented this? I don't know. I do know that he made me sick when I saw him on the church steps trying to pick-up women after the "Day of Prayer on Wedensday services. I felt sorry for his daughter, she kept going over to break up the conversation's between her dad and the women. I am very proud of our President. I know we are in for a very difficult time ahead. I do not believe any of this is the fault of this present administration. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Policemen" Posted by Harley on 18:59:34 9/15/2001 I work with the same kind of idiot that made that remark about policemen. A woman I work with and used to exercise with was going on and on about policemen and basically all law enforcement. They are all this, they are all that, they are crooked, the are stupid. One day I just had enough and turned and looked at her and said "So basically what you are saying is that all law enforcement people are dishonest. Yes she said. I got real close up to her and said "Debra (her name) my father was a state policemen for 20 or so years and my nephew is a parole officer. My father was one of the most honest, not to mention intelligent (he was college professor before becoming a state policemen), honorable men there ever was and I resent immensely what you are saying. Whenever I see her that is what sticks in my mind, her narrow minded attitude. I wanted to go up to her after all this happened and say well it us lucky for you your loved ones are not buried in that rubble for look at the idiots they have looking for them. But of course I did not. Those people who put down law enforcement are normally those who are on the wrong side of it but also the first to look for them when something happens to them. Enough ranting for now. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "R.S." Posted by Mini on 18:53:19 9/15/2001 I understand only too well how tough the going is going to get and that's what makes me so sad. Even our perfect little Persian Gulf War that was so TV accessible and bloodless didn't turn out too well and we're still experiencing the repercussions. I just wish it could be eternally Monday, Sept. 10. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Jellyjaws," Posted by LurkerXIV on 19:24:30 9/15/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:24:30, 9/15/2001 You are certainly entitled to your rage. I am still too numb to be angry yet. I, too, grew up in Brooklyn, NY. My father worked as Chief Accountant for a firm at 90 West Broadway, just a few blocks from where the Towers were built. He would often take us in to work with him on a Saturday, in the early 40's. We would have lunch at Mullen's Grill on Chambers Street. Then he would take us on a walking tour of Lower Manhattan, along the narrow streets and past the quaint buildings of that time. We would always stop on Barclay Street, at one of the religious supplies stores, so I could buy a few "Holy Cards" as we called them, to add to my scrapbook of "Saints and Prayers". (Of course at that age I wanted to be a nun). Sometimes we would walk down to Battery Park and stop in at Trinity Church. On very special outings, we would take the ferry over to Bedloes Island to the Statue of Liberty, or we'd take the subway further on uptown to the Empire State Building, or some other famous site. It breaks my heart to see the utter devastation wreaked upon my beloved home city by crazed religious fanatics. I weep to see these streets, which I happily strolled along, holding on to my father's hand, strewn with rubble and ash and looking for all the world like Pompeii the day after. I cry for New York's finest, the PD and FD, in whose ranks we have always proudly counted family members. My husband's father was a Lieutenant in the NYFD, as was my brother. They both engaged in this dirty dangerous work not for the money, not for the glory, but to save human lives. My father-in-law and my brother between them saved dozens of lives during their outstanding careers with the NYFD. It sickens me to go to that part of the forum where the ignorant would dare to defile the memory of the brave; where the cowards hunker down in safe anonymity behind their keyboards to spew anti-Jewish filth and to attack the President of the United States. I will stay away from that part of the forum for the duration. Jellyjaws, my heart is with you and all the brave and wonderful people of New York as they try to return to some semblance of normalcy on Monday morning. The children of my nephews are pleading with them "Daddy, don't ever go back to the City." But go back they will, because they are faithful and patriotic Americans, and they will do what is best not for themselves, but for their country. God Bless New York, and God Bless America! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Excuse me if I must..." Posted by Colorado Babe on 19:20:54 9/15/2001 I have only one thing to say..... I am so proud right right now to be serving my country and I am so thankful that my Commander and Chief is President Bush.....It is a true honor to serve under him.... Thank God George W. Bush is our President,,,especially right now!!! Peace Colorado Babe [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "thanking colorado babe for serving the U.S.A.!" Posted by purr on 20:14:39 9/15/2001 thank you colorado babe for serving our country. thanks a lot babe! please let me know exactly what you do..... and what city do you serve in?? i would like to know. and by the way, i agree with you! thanks, purr [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Ah, Lurker" Posted by Jellyjaws on 19:51:12 9/15/2001 You are always so eloquent. What a beautiful post! I think I can see you and your family walking those streets. Funny you should mention Trinity Church. Do you know that, amid all that distruction, it wasn't damaged a bit? The cemetary is full of rubble (as shone in a film clip), but the church is fine. Thank you, as always, for bringing beauty and balance to the forum. I will sleep better for your kind words. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "And that, Mini" Posted by Real Stormy on 19:47:53 9/15/2001 Is the problem. It can't be forever Sept. 10. Face the reality of the situation. This is not an intellectual exercize. This is real life. Admit it. Face it. Get on with it. Help if you can and if you can't, get out of the way. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "R.S." Posted by Mini on 20:01:58 9/15/2001 I've lived a lot of real life and I'm not considering this an intellectual excercise, but what would you propose that I do? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Mini" Posted by Real Stormy on 20:26:55 9/15/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 20:26:55, 9/15/2001 A few days ago, I got an e-mail from a friend who is planning to go on a Canadian cruise. She was quite concerned about whether or not "they" would have a war "there." My friend lives in Kentucky! I told her that it isn't "they," it's "us." That it isn't "there," it's "here." Your attitude seems to be that only those of us who support our country will be involved in any difficulties. Guess what? Dissenters will be in as much danger as we will. This means you. So it seems to me, purely as a matter of self-preservation, you might want to rethink your position, and see if you can do something to help. A start would be to support your country since terrorists don't understand freedom of speech and think your opinion might be indicative of the general opinion or important in the equasion. It isn't. This won't be done by vote. It doesn't much matter whether or not you are a US citizen or a Canadian. Most of the civilized world is united to oppose terrorists, so you are probably involved. You can't go back to Sept. 10. Wishing won't make it so. No decent person wanted this to happen, but it did. Face it. Get on with it. But you do have a choice. That's one of the things it's all about. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "I agree" Posted by Bitsy on 20:41:48 9/15/2001 I just dont want any more innocent people to die, and they will in pursuit of these insane people. Unfortunately groups such as those of Osama Bin Laden don't seem to care about the lives of their own any more than they do of ours. I don't know the answers. Today at the Seattle Center there was a flower vigil. Mourners brought flowers and placed them in the fountain. They also covered several police cars and a fire truck with flowers. It was extremely touching. I was so proud to see the people who help us with their vehicles covered with flowers. Several muslim groups also brought flowers and everyone cheered. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Tragedy" Posted by doScubie on 20:37:55 9/15/2001 I am so glad to see many other countries offering their condolences and support in eradicating terrorism. It would be much harder for us to plan an attack if half of those countries, esp. those close to Afghanistan, were not supporting us. Then we would have to be careful where we flew, where we walked, and where we put our ships. With all the support of the government, almost unanimous (except one lone crazed lady), the US citizens, and surrounding countries, I truly feel for the first time, we just may have a chance to eliminate the #1 suspect and many of his followers. The FBI has already rounded up quite a few and two of those were very, very close to home. It is so scary to think about just how close they were. I feel for everyone, esp. those who lost loved ones, where ever they may live. I feel like this has only made us stronger, and hope Pakistan keeps its borders closed as well as any other countries, so none of the creeps who do this sort of thing, may sneak out like the cowards they all are. God Bless All of You, and I hope we are very successful with our attack on Afghanistan. I am so proud of all the servicemen and women, and all the workers who are helping to look for survivors, or recover bodies, so that families may have some kind of closure to this unbelieveable event. Pray for success in the days to follow. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "R.S." Posted by Mini on 20:51:29 9/15/2001 What's my choice? Of course I'm opposed to terrorists and of course I support our country. I just hope our response is well-reasoned and not based on an emotional response. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Rage in a box..." Posted by Greenleaf on 21:09:20 9/15/2001 I grew up in a small Southern town during WWII. It was a town filled with old men, women and children. All the young men were away fighting the enemy. We had the utmost respect for all Policemen, Firemen and men and women in the Armed Forces. They never had to catch a bus, as someone nearly always would pick them up and take them into town. They were our heroes and we treated them with great love and respect. There were few garden clubs or bridge clubs in those days. Women were busy rolling bandages for the Red Cross and knitting socks and scarves for servicemen overseas. The adults and children busied themselves with such things as collecting paper and metal for the war effort. We were all patriotic. No one had to remind us to fly the American Flag. It was routinely flown over many a door during those war years. No one had to clap when our Policemen, Firemen or members of the Armed Forces went by. We daily showed our love and gratitude for them. All my brothers and little male friends wanted to grow up to be just like them. It was a time when we operated on a firmly placed value system. There were no gray areas between right and wrong. When I saw those New Yorkers lined up on the street, applauding those brave men and women, who were part of the rescue effort, I was moved to tears. When I saw our President with his arm around that tattered, brave Fireman, my faith in humanity soared. At that moment, George W. Bush most certainly expressed my feelings. Rage? Ah, yes, I feel rage. Nevertheless, I feel that something good is going to come from all this. I am proud to be an American. I have a flag on either side of my front door and another flag on my mailbox. Sad? Ah, yes, I am sad. Nevertheless, I am happy to see the old American spirit of yore blossoming anew. Our future? I believe it will be stronger than ever. We will overcome this, as we have overcome so much adversity in the past. America is a beacon of light to the whole world. With God's help, we will conquer this evil, which has descended upon us. For now, I will endeavor to put my rage into a box and rely on prayer and good thoughts for all mankind. With love and best wishes to all my JW friends. Greenleaf [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "I don't believe some......" Posted by bootz913 on 23:51:57 9/15/2001 of what I'm reading here. I'm really not sure that I'm posting what I have to say in the right thread, but, ya' know what??????? Fuck it!!! We're all frustaded, that's a given. I gotta get this off my chest. Haven't had much time to be at JW in the past week (and I was lured to JW 'cause of the feelings I have regarding JUSTICE for all)......... Some of ya'll want to play politics over the horrific events of September 11th. I don't get that! Surely politics affects everying that goes on today, and from what I see, it sux! Most of what I've read since coming back from day three at ground zero makes me fill up (a good thing since there's no time for that when you're doing what you gotta do). Some of it makes me want to rip somebody's freakin' head off. Bush this......Clinton that.....WHO THE HELL CARES!! They're both polticians.....They'll both do and say whatever.... We need to get behind the Commander in Chief, no matter what party he belongs to. And, I believe, we all have to do a hell of a lotta soul searching......ALL OF US!!! May I add here that today, on the last day that volunteer workers were accepted at ground zero for demoltion of the remains of the World Trade Center in what should be a gingerly approached way of getting rid of the debris and looking for survivors (a good thing since I've seen people who had no knowledge of how to use a cutting torch, or a basic knowledge of structures tearing at the steel {and, believe me, I know they're hearts were in the right place}), I was treated to what I believe to be a payback for being spit on when I returned from my second tour in Vietnam, when I passed a bunch of hooligans at Broad and Diamond in Philly. I know I'm getting tangential here, so be it! About 100 of us were loaded onto a flatbed (ya' know the ones that carry cars) and were given the chef's tour of Lower Manhattan before arriving at the site. Well, it was like what I most certainly would liked to have experienced in 1969. While I, for some reason, have a helluva a time accepting kudos (and, I won't get into that now), deep down I think we all like to be recognized for doing the right thing, even when you think that at some point your basic instincts take over and you just react........As we sat on the back of that truck and were driven thru Manhattan, it was like, well.........you'd have to have been there. I did have time for the tears then, however hidden behind my sunglasses, or, so I thought 'til the guy beside me poked me in the ribs and said, "kinda gets ya', don't it?". Don't know where I'm going from here. While I've been unemployed (for medical reasons), and need to get back to work, I don't think I can go on the payroll of Tully Construction (as was offered). Don't think that I can now get paid for something I felt compelled to do a citizen of the United States of America just 'cause it had to be done. Not making sense? Does to me. My brain's going a mile a minute. And, hopefully this little tirade (or whatever the hell you want to call it) will chill me enough to get some sleep and finish my new, old boat so's I can get it in the water before it turns to ice. If you've gotten this far, know that I love people.....even if some of them can piss me off. Again, not looking for any pats on the back, and I'm surely not looking to get flamed. Just wanted to vent a tad. Ya' know, it's taken me a long time to put this together.......and I am more relaxed. Is that what catharsis is all about? :) God Bless the World!!!!!!! bootz [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL bootz913 ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Thoughts" Posted by v_p on 21:32:25 9/15/2001 >>>>Your attitude seems to be that only those of us who support our country will be involved in any difficulties. Guess what? Dissenters will be in as much danger as we will. This means you. So it seems to me, purely as a matter of self-preservation, you might want to rethink your position, and see if you can do something to help. A start would be to support your country since terrorists don't understand freedom of speech and think your opinion might be indicative of the general opinion or important in the equasion. It isn't. This won't be done by vote. Profoundly said RS. As for Police Officers and Firemen. Of course they are heroes. They join the police force and the fire department to make a difference... it is certainly NOT for the money. Police officers, (my brother is one), become disenchanted after their rookie time because 90% of what they deal with are scum of the earth. They don't spend a lot of time saving lives, they spend a lot of time cleaning up the mess and doing the paperwork after it's over. Sadly, a tragedy such as this allows them to show what they're made of... the right stuff. I went to my daughter's church tonight for a 50's program she put together with her youth group, (she teaches the 3-7 yr. olds), and I couldn't concentrate. This is getting to me in the worst way. I need to stop watching and listening and reading about it, but I can't. There are so many people in pain tonight... missing their loved ones, hoping against hope they're alive. I'm depressed, which I rarely get. I want to know the world will be safe and free for my daughter. God Bless America and God Bless and keep our men in uniform. The man from FEMA, Allagh, (?), made a comment today about the men taking out the rubble and bodies from the Pentagon ... they are the first to feel the pain in the budget cuts. "They" and the teachers should be the most well paid of all of us. I rambled, so sue me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Well, I don't know" Posted by Watching you on 05:39:08 9/16/2001 what I expected when I logged in here this morning, but I don't think I expected to have my heart warmed up by the posts on this thread - well, at least most of them. To mini I can only say, it's does not matter to the terrorist bin Laden what any of our politics are. You are an American, that's all he cares about. He wants to kill Americans - you could stand before him and damn all Americans, he would slit your throat in a heartbeat, because you are an American. To bootz913, you guys are heroes, every last one of you, whether you like the title or not. There is enormous danger at ground zero, and no matter how hard one tries to keep hope afloat, the horror and the despair have to be unimaginable. Just know that those of us who cannot be there are there beside you in spirit, trying to hold you up and keep you going. New Yorkers have shown the world what bravery and commitment are all about. You have made America proud. Thank you. As to what is going on in other parts of the forum, on other threads, there's no sense. I don't even read there any more. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around what has happened and what is to come. Pointing fingers, placing blame is not going to solve the immense problems we have facing us. In the coming months/years, the American people are going to be asked to make tremendous sacrifices in order to make this world safe for our children and their children. I was one of the few who welcomed our servicemen home from Viet Nam with open arms. They were sent to do a job with their hands tied. They were villified for trying to do their jobs. Not this time. Every mother's son, every father's daughter who is going into battle stands the risk of not making it home. I don't take that kind of sacrifice lightly. I'll support them every step of the way in whatever way I can. This is America, we have to stand together. The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. Vorlon Ambassador Kosh Naranek Babylon 5: Believers [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Colorado Babe...I salute you, and pray for you..." Posted by Dunvegan on 05:23:18 9/16/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 05:23:18, 9/16/2001 ...and all of our military. And, purr...we do not want to know WHERE or WHAT Colorado Babe of any other of our military people are specifically GOING or DOING. We just want them to know our complete support, admiration, and heartfelt gratitude is going with them where ever they go. REMEMBER... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Colorado Babe" Posted by Watching you on 05:48:15 9/16/2001 I don't have the words for what is in my heart. I am so proud to be an American, so hurt for what I know is ahead but willing to do whatever it takes here at home to help. I pray for the safety of every one of our service men and women -I know it has to be hell to leave your husband and kids. The heart of this American goes with you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Colorado Babe" Posted by RiverRat on 07:07:12 9/16/2001 Our prayers for you and your family. Keep the faith. rr [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "bootz" Posted by v_p on 08:33:55 9/16/2001 Thank you for helping. God Bless America [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Morning" Posted by Jellyjaws on 09:11:30 9/16/2001 It was so good to wake up this morning, read the posts and realize that we are all in the same boat. We'll be Ok. We just have to get through all this. God bless America. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "sad today" Posted by Shee on 10:08:37 9/16/2001 looking at the rubble, no one to fight, no enemy to look in the face, just a trashed life for so many sad............ [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Shee" Posted by Jellyjaws on 11:06:52 9/16/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:06:52, 9/16/2001 I think we are all going through ups and downs. It's going to be pretty ragged. We must have courage. Edited to say: Shee, that didn't come out right. Let's go get a Nathan's. We'll cry. Then we'll have courage. :) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Walt Whitman" Posted by v_p on 11:30:45 9/16/2001 "Bathed in war's perfume -- delicate flag! (Should the days needing armies, needing fleets, come again) O to hear you call the sailors and the soldiers! flag like a beautiful woman! O to hear the tramp, tramp, of a million answering men! O the ships they arm with joy! O to see you leap and beckon from the tall masts of ships! O to see you peering down on the sailors on the decks! Flag like the eyes of women." Bathed in War's Perfume -- Walt Whitman (1819-1892). Leaves of Grass. 1900 [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "Oh, V_p" Posted by Jellyjaws on 12:04:12 9/16/2001 What a perfect selection! Walt Whitman was so enthralled by New York. Thank you so much for that. We'll make the country better for your daughter, just you wait and see. :) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "It might be important" Posted by Gemini on 16:02:54 9/16/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:02:54, 9/16/2001 to remember that the US is a country of diversity ... diverse cultures ... diverse individuals ... diverse opinion. That's part of what makes us great. That's part of what we are willing to fight to protect. That's freedom. Where's the tolerance? And, for those of you wno hark back to fond memories of the attitudes and patriotism of WWII ... don't forget, those attitudes rounded up Japanese-Americans and herded them into camps. We have changed ... for the better. The vast majority of Americans would no longer be willing to accept that kind of activity. The world has changed and ... Thank God! ... we have changed, too. Most of us. Remember, those who attacked us operate under extreme prejudice. "Our views or none at all". How can we despise their view of the world ... then, turn around and practice the same prejudice against our fellow countrymen with opinions that vary a little from our own? Where's OUR tolerance? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "History ..." Posted by Mandarin on 15:42:30 9/16/2001 As that old saying goes ... "Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it". My hub (10 years older) has always been a history buff of sorts and has helped me understand a lot of world events from both sides of many coins. In many ways, I think last week is a "wake up call" for all human beings on the planet earth, probably even those that supported the attacks. I had a Japanese girlfriend in college whose parents remembered all to well how they were treated in Western Canada after Pearl Harbor - AND THEIR ENTIRE FAMILY had never spent a day in Japan. Still they lost their property and lived in interment camps with very little hope of a future. They did survive and eventually prosper, but the mental scars are what are the hardest for them to bear, even now. If you had lived through any of the previous world wars as many of our ancestors and friends have, you will be more likely to rethink future action with a good dose of caution. Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Kindly note, Gem" Posted by Real Stormy on 15:34:03 9/16/2001 That in all of my posts I have recognized the right of dissent. IMO that is extremely tolerant. Your condescention grows intolerable. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "RS" Posted by Gemini on 15:59:27 9/16/2001 I was not, even, thinking of your posts RS. My post was general (if poorly spelled), heartfelt remarks. You take things very personally. All opinions are important. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Mandarin" Posted by Gemini on 16:26:25 9/16/2001 Thanks for adding that good post. I think, many times, folks who bemoan our current society and wish for the "good old days" are wishing for lost youth and not for the conditions. I turned 7 in 1960, so, many of my memories are of turbulent times ... cold war, vietnam, etc.. My "good old days" are probably the late '70s and early '80s. Right now, that time in space looks pretty good to me. But, we can't go back ... time flows on. While this past week has been the worst, hope is one of the most important aspects of the human psychi. If we throw ourselves down a stairway of dispair, we deny one of the best of all human qualities. I may not be quite able to have faith in better days to come, but I certainly want to keep that hope. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Gemini ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Anger into Action" Posted by MrsBrady on 16:39:44 9/16/2001 Anger is good. "My God is a God of surprises..." I just got a job offer from a major security firm and I'm seriously considering ditching this whole, trivial JonBenet chit and going for it. Don't get mad - get even. Like I said on the daily, I think JonBenet's revenge/legacy is that we're ready, deadly, armed and dangerous. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Gem and Mandarin" Posted by Mini on 16:53:34 9/16/2001 Thanks for your thoughtful posts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Dunvegan" Posted by Jellyjaws on 17:22:05 9/16/2001 We are all searching. Thank you so much for providing a spot where we can express our feelings. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "mandarin" Posted by v_p on 17:42:00 9/16/2001 >>In many ways, I think last week is a "wake up call" for all human beings on the planet earth, probably even those that supported the attacks.<<< Wake up call? Wake up to what? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Go for it Brady" Posted by Real Stormy on 17:49:20 9/16/2001 You are smart, resourceful, and very determined. Just what our security needs. Best wishes. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Trying to imagine the # of people" Posted by v_p on 18:23:42 9/16/2001 missing... St Patrick's Cathedral/Midtown Manhattan. One of the largest churches in the U.S. It has a seating capacity of 2,400, the pipe organ has more than 7,380 pipes. Twice as many as this church held during services. I can't get the number of missing out of my mind... then you multiply that number by the families in pain, wondering... yet knowing in their hearts they're gone. We place so much value on human life... where the terrorists place none. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "Criticize our heros?" Posted by Country Girl on 19:07:48 9/16/2001 I'm happy I didn't read that! When I see the faces on television of those weary men and women and imagine the horror they are seeing I thank God for them and people like them. They gave of their lives to help a stranger. I suppose to some that is the height of stupidity. Remember that when you dial 911 and your home is burning or your loved one isn't breathing. Not heros? While everyone was running from the building, they were running into it. In many cases, to their own deaths. I have spent my last week kicking myself in the ass because I'm trying to get some Disney movie on or off the air and I'm stressed over it. I do nothing in this world that means a damn in comparison to what these people do hundreds of times a week. It just never hit me like it has this week. None of us want to lose our loved ones in a war. Our fathers and uncles didn't want to fight the wars they fought. Had they not, we might all be speaking another language today and not by choice. I am behind the commander in chief 100%. I think he needs my prayers tonight. I did not vote for the man but what the hell does that entitle me? To think that just because my candidate didn't win that for 4 years I'm not an American? I believe in my heart that in a time such as this the leader of the free world will do what he solumnly swore to do: defend the United States of America. It's time to walk through the fear and look around and see what you can do to support this country. Give blood or money or both if you can. Buy a bracelet in support of the FDNY. Fly your flag. Be tolerant. Recognize racism, even in your own thoughts. Don't bitch about long lines at the airport. Be glad you live in a country where you can sit at your keyboard and write your opinions without fear of prison. Yes, Mandarin, this was a wake up call. A call to stop thinking only of ourselves and our selfish little lives and get on our knees and thank your God for everyday heros. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "While I understand" Posted by bootz913 on 20:25:35 9/16/2001 the need for the change in policy that kept me from going back in today, I feel lost and helpless now. So, I understand also what's driving a lot of what I've read here since last night. We can't sit on our hands. Someone said in another thread, and probably in one of the other forums here, that if we don't respond, we'll be going thru this every couple of months. I don't believe that the perps will be satisfied to rock in a chair and cherish their memories of last Tuesday. They have to be found and dealt with harshly. WY....I saw you mention Philly somewhere else. Sure wish you'd have been on Broad St. back in '69 instead of those punks. And, you're welcome. v_p....Grateful that I was in a position to be able to do it. You too are welcome. As the New York State Police were escorting us out after the policy change and all without the Federal passes had to leave the site, I was talking to one of our brothers that had driven up from Texas and had not gotten to ground zero, and wasn't going to now. He was a bit older than myself, in fact he was retired. He was distraught over not being able to do anything, and with tears in his eyes slipped away from the group we were in and into one of the bucket brigades. Hope he passed on one or two before he was caught up with again. He certainly was determined. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "So many heroes" Posted by Real Stormy on 21:49:19 9/16/2001 Bootz and Colorado Babe, Thank you for what you are doing. I admire you both. I'm so proud of our country. Here I had thought we had become soft and self-centered and would fold in the slightest crisis and I learn how wrong I was. Those men and women searching in New York are incredibly brave. It has always seemed to me that true bravery is that even though you are frightened, you do the right thing anyway. I'm sure they are frightened, yet there they are. One of the most poignant things I have seen since this disaster was the mother of one of the young men who is thought to have helped overpower the hijackers in the PA crash. She said that even though her son is dead, she is proud and accepts it because his death saved hundreds of others. I don't remember his name or her name, but I think we will learn them and we will keep them close in our hearts. "Greater love hath no man....." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "v.p." Posted by Mandarin on 22:23:36 9/16/2001 Sorry if you don't "get it" I fear that even if I were to elaborate it would just get you on the defensive. Let me say this though, if the visions of disaster in NY scare you, what will you feel like when you see American sons, daughters, husbands, wifes, relatives and friends coming home by the thousands in body bags. I fully support response and retalliation but what that is can only be sewn together through the democratic minds that lead civilized nations. Certainly not us here on an informal board. We get to vent here and I appreciate your concern and feelings. You know v.p. at this point in time I am still suffering from 'battle fatigue' even though I have not been within a mile of NY or Washington. The media saturation is beyond belief and somehow, some way I pray (even though I'm an avowed atheist) that those at the helm will really think before they choose their course of action. I remember the pride I felt during Desert Storm but I also remember the 'friendly fire', the scare tactics of the media and lest we forget the innocent people killed in other countries too. Let's try to stick together v.p. in spite of our different views. Unity is what keeps our hope alive and as Gem says, hope is what we mostly have right now. Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Buffalo firefighters" Posted by Watching you on 05:08:11 9/17/2001 returned to Buffalo from NYC yesterday and another group took their places. A couple of them appeared on the morning news this morning - they are still in shock, the trauma played out on their faces, in their eyes. One rescue worker told of searching something like 14 elevators - every one of them was covered with the blood of fallen workers. Mandarin, I understand very well about bringing men and women home from a war in body bags. What would you have us do, then. Wait for the next attack? We can't do that. We have to stop this madness now. There are more ways to try and stop it than just through our military. Is everyone ready to buy some stock this morning when the stock market opens? Want to give bin Laden the finger? Buy stock. Something, doesn't have to be a lot. If every American able to do so would buy stock this morning, that would be a step in the right direction. There are indeed other ways to accomplish our goals, but we cannot do this the nice way anymore. That ought to be abundantly clear by now. Yes we are going to lose lives. Every person here will probably be affected. If men and women had not been willing to risk their lives years ago, we would not have the freedoms we love today. It's a fact of war. Nobody like it. Bootz, Mrs. Brady lives in Philly - she's a feisty woman, yes she is. I live closer to Buffalo. Last night more that 50,000 Buffalonians gathered for a service - what a sight that was to behold - 50,000 candles, 50,000 American flags, all the patriotic songs ringing out in the night - for our big brother to the east. I have to go to work. I will be back. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Speaking of Rage" Posted by Ally on 06:00:25 9/17/2001 just came across this http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,174641,00.html I like it for it's "when the going gets tough" attitude. But obviously, Morrow is leaning toward blitzkrieg and I'm no longer sure I agree with that. What I agree with, is whatever our leaders decide to do. Clearly, we are not yet ready to boldly go where no man has gone before. Except in the sense of the planning, I guess. As CNN reminds us, this is a different kind of war. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "madarin" Posted by v_p on 06:45:22 9/17/2001 Sorry if my question was too hard. As usual, you give a condescending answer which makes no sense. I don't give a damn whether or not bin Laden is brought here for a fair trial or shot on sight. Haven't we lost enough already? Why should we spend millions to bring the bastard and his co-horts to trial? Easier to hunt him down, skin him slowly, and pour salt over his exposed tissue. Sorry, I got carried away. Two young, American women are on trial in Kabul right now... their parents had to leave after the WTC crashes... I wonder how fair their trials will be. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Well..." Posted by freebird on 07:17:22 9/17/2001 For my tax money, I say shoot on site and send the money saved for a fair trial to these victims familys or raise the pay of our firemen, police, ect... I have no problem with the price of a bullet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Kobayashi Maru" Posted by Ayeka on 11:33:26 9/17/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:33:26, 9/17/2001 As the days pass I like we are in a real-life Kobayashi Maru (a no-win tactical battle simulation within the Star Trek universe). I feel there will be no "right" answer -- retaliation will spawn more terrorism, yet a mere trial seems too easy punishment. I just hope our leaders can choose the one that is the best. Categorizing all Arabs or Muslims as "sheet wearers" is as wrong as the Islamic fanatics categorizing all Americans as "Satan". It hurts my heart to read of the man in Texas (?) who went out and shot Arab/Arab-American gas station owners just because they "looked Muslim". I know this is a time of emotions running high but please don't lump them all into one like-minded group. The average Muslim condemns these acts as much as any Christian or Jew. What I find fascinating (and wonderful!) is the way the nations of the world are working together through this. Would anyone have ever thought Fidel Castro or China would be on our side for anything? Ayeka ps. edited to add: I was galled to read that soemone insulted our policemen and fire fighters in such a way. Shame on whoever said that! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Ayeka" Posted by pope on 15:11:57 9/17/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:11:57, 9/17/2001 I hate to break this to you, but they hate us in China too, no matter what the leaders say. My son reports that many cheered when the first reports of the bombing came in. Many of his students have greeted him all week with grins on their faces and delight that we are all suffering. The people of China hate us as much as the people in the Arab world. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "Absolutely, Pope..and Ms B." Posted by Mels on 16:07:55 9/17/2001 They can't wait to see us fall down and skin our knees....but they will never beat us....Bible says so. Ms Brady, good for you! take that job and make a difference! I think a noble choice for an assistant might be WY...but, now that i think about it, I think it might be good to put WY with the CIA or FBI....I bet either one of you could get things 'moving' in the right direction! :) Mels [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "ayeka" Posted by v_p on 15:33:39 9/17/2001 Is this the "Texan" you were talking about? It's everywhere. The first man is an East Indian man. My boss is East Indian and I'd hate to think someone would shoot or hurt him because of his appearance. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/17/national/17ISLA.html September 17, 2001 Sikh Owner of Gas Station Is Fatally Shot in Rampage By TAMAR LEWIN n a shooting rampage on Saturday, a gunman in Arizona fatally shot the Sikh owner of a Chevron gas station, and then, 20 minutes later, shot at but missed a clerk of Lebanese descent at a Mobil station. Soon afterward, he fired several shots into the home of a family of Afghan descent, but hit no one. The police in Mesa, Ariz., arrested Frank Roque, 42, on two counts of attempted murder, in the shootings. The killing of the gas station owner, Balbir Singh Sodhi, was under investigation. The East Valley Tribune reported that Mr. Roque shouted, "I stand for America all the way," as he was handcuffed. And while the police have not declared that the shootings were motivated by the victims' ethnicity, they have notified Federal Bureau of Investigation officials who investigate hate crimes. Mr. Sodhi, who is Indian, moved to the United States 10 years ago. He came to Arizona and opened his gas station a year ago. In another killing, a Pakistani Muslim in Dallas, Waqar Hassan, was found fatally shot in his grocery store on Saturday night. The police said that a "considerable amount" of money was left in the cash register, and they could not rule out the possibility it was a revenge killing. "We're not saying it's a hate crime and we're not saying it isn't," Sgt. Gary Kirkpatrick said. "We just don't know yet." In San Gabriel, Calif., where Adelal Karas, 48, an Egyptian Christian was fatally shot at the International Market on Saturday, the police said the family suspected an ethnic motivation. But the police said it looked like a robbery. "We're looking at it as a robbery that tragically turned into a homicide," said Los Angeles Deputy Sheriff Ron Bottomley. "The cash register drawer was open," said Ron Bottomley, a Los Angeles deputy sheriff. "Unless there is some concrete evidence that a hate crime was committed, we see this as a robbery. A lot of convenience stores out here are run by people from the Middle East, and they often get robbed." But Sara Eltantawi, a friend of the victim's family, said the family was trying to persuade the police to think about the relevance of the victim's ethnicity. "We know there was money left," Ms. Eltantawi said. "The family thinks it's a hate crime, and it's too far soon for the police to conclude it was a robbery." And another... http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010917/ts/attack_ohio_mosque_dc_2.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "Forgiveness" Posted by Flanagan on 17:25:33 9/17/2001 I've been a member for some time, but I never have posted. I'm European. I've read this thread and I've seen lots of anger. I understand it. What happened was awful, the deed of very ill and low people. All my simpathy with the victims (fisic or moral) and their families. But I'm worried about something. While seeing terrorist videos in TV, I always hear them talking of their muslim God an tóo, of "evil" , in the name of who they are doing what are doing. But, on the other side, I read many of you -as Pdnt. Bush often does- talk too of God (another one), of evil and so on. Here, in Europe, any politic would dare to speak of God while acting as a politic. Maybe because, in past centuries, we have known many wars with milions of dead, in the name of God. I don't know. But, if you talk of God (the Christian one), you should consider forgiveness, for that is who says the Bible. And, even being agnostic, I would rely on that. I know it's difficult, I know these beasts would deserve anything... but I don't see the gain of provoking more deaths of innocents (in poor countries, where NOT ALL THE PEOPLE is laughing and celebrating). What would make us better thant them, would be forgiveness and relying on Justice and in Courts in the way we have it. They (the terrorists) say that are acting out of revenge -- no matter how far away from reality and sanity they are. Now, many occidental people want to leave their countries "flat" and burn... out of revenge tóo. Forgiveness and stric Justice for the guilties is what would do us (I'm including as occidental) better than them. It is just my opinion, and sorry for the bad english. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 71. "Great Creative Writing..." Posted by LurkerXIV on 19:13:22 9/17/2001 ...Flanagan! ROFLPIMP!! Thank you very much, that's the first good laugh I've had since last Tuesday! An Irishman who talks like he's from Buchalukistan! Good Grief!! Which of our clever many-hatted ones gets credit for this gem? I think it's someone who knows how to put that little ' right over a vowel--like over the "E" in JonBenet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 108. "LOL" Posted by samantha on 07:49:01 9/21/2001 I thought the very same thing. :) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "flanagan" Posted by v_p on 17:38:59 9/17/2001 >>>What would make us better thant them, would be forgiveness <<< Honestly, would you feel this way if it were your mother, or daughter, or sybling who jumped from the WTC, grasping for thin air to soften her fall of 90 floors? Or the 5,000 others who lost their lives to this satan? F*ck bin Laden and may he suffer a long and agonizing death... if that makes me inhuman or less christian, at this point, I'll have to accept the consequences and suffer for my own thoughts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "My God" Posted by Watching you on 18:07:21 9/17/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 18:07:21, 9/17/2001 does not sanction the killing of thousands of innocent men, women and children. These terrorists hate. My God does not hate nor does He santion hatred. These men use the name of God to justify the murders they commit, and that is blasphemy. These terrorists and all terrorists who commit mass murders in the name of God are evil in its purest form. America may not have carte blanc permission from God to murder innocents, but BY GOD, we have the God-given right to defend ourselves against tyranny and evil. They drew the first blood. It is not hatred to defend ourselves and go after the terrorists. It would be a sin not to. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "Yes WY" Posted by Real Stormy on 18:03:16 9/17/2001 If we fail to defend our own country, we will be failing in our Christian duty. It is for us to be the force for good. That includes punishing the wicked and protecting the weak. "An eye for an eye.." I believe that is in my copy of the bible. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "At bin Laden's son's wedding" Posted by Watching you on 18:02:22 9/17/2001 last January, bin Laden is featured reading an ode he'd written to the bombing by his supporters of the USS Cole in Yemen - an attack that killed 17 US service men. "The pieces of the bodies of the infidels were flying like dust particles,"..."If you had seen it with your own eyes, your heart would have been filled with joy." The bastard's heart must be overflowing with joy today at the dust and ash particles still floating above NYC - ashes of Americans burned to death. Forgiveness? Not in this lifetime. Not by me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "v_p" Posted by Flanagan on 18:01:39 9/17/2001 "Honestly, would you feel this way if it were your mother, or daughter, or sybling who jumped from the WTC, grasping for thin air to soften her fall of 90 floors?"" Honestly, and although it is difficult to consider in abstract this kind of personal situacions, I think my anger would be only directed to the people who had done it. I don't believe I wouldn't get any relief if I knew that hundrends, thousands of civilians whose only "sin" was to be of the same country or breed that the terrorist were going to die too. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "Flanagan" Posted by Real Stormy on 18:06:43 9/17/2001 Perhaps you don't understand that the people who harbor Bin Laden are equally guilty. The people who allow him to live among them are as guilty as he. But of course it is more than that. The Taliban aids him, protects him and furnishes fighters for him. In a perfect world, no innocent people would be killed. But then, he and his cohorts wouldn't exist in a perfect world. One must do what is required. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "Bin Laden" Posted by Watching you on 18:06:06 9/17/2001 says there are no morals in war. Living by his code, we absolutely should go in there and kill men, women, and children. Fortunately, I don't think it's likely that is our goal. There has been enough innocent blood shed. The United States' goals are to get the leaders and the cells of terrorists. There probably will be civilian casualites, but, unlike bin Laden, we will not be targeting civilians. Bin Laden has to die. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "*sniff*" Posted by v_p on 18:26:35 9/17/2001 Is it just me, or does anyone else smell Nedthan? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "I smell candy, too" Posted by Watching you on 18:31:27 9/17/2001 veepee. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "Flanagan" Posted by Mini on 18:23:15 9/17/2001 Thank you for a thoughtful post. If English isn't your primary language, you're exceptionally fluent. I, too, wish god would not constantly be brought into the conversation and I hope the posters who don't seem to care about obliterating innocents in the name of vengeance aren't basing their opinions on the bible. The Afghans have absolutely no control over the people who rule them. Why is there such concern for the way women under the Taliban are forced to live then suddenly we don't have to worry about them because we're going to wipe them out? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 68. "I know that the U.S." Posted by Ev on 18:51:22 9/17/2001 would prefer to go in and be able to pluck out only those who are responsible for these murders and no others. How is that possible? This is what is so awful about war -it affects thousands of innocents who have nothing to do with any policies of their leaders or rebels or whoever is causing the problems. I just pray that our leaders will make the right choices at the right times, and I pray that those who are guilty of this will understand what they have done and come forward (fat chance). We all turn to our Creator, no matter what we call it, but whatever it is, it's the same for us all. These murderers are not practicing anything they were taught in Islam. (If I hear one more person refer to these attacks at "the accidents!" They were anything but. Probably the same people who call convicted criminals "gentlemen" and "ladies." NOT!!!) The memorial service in San Francisco today was beautiful --a great many religious leaders represented and applauded by the crowds, inside and outside the auditorium. We are ALL leaves upon the same tree of life, like it or not. It is against nature for leaves to harm the leaves on another branch, isn't it? It's such a simple lesson, but we aren't learning it. We have to repeat the same mistakes over and over again, generation after generation. Our generation would like to right these wrongs, but we have no conrol over the destiny of another. We can't blame our Creator, for he gave humans free will. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "mini" Posted by v_p on 18:34:28 9/17/2001 >>>I, too, wish god would not constantly be brought into the conversation and I hope the posters who don't seem to care about obliterating innocents in the name of vengeance aren't basing their opinions on the bible.<<<< God is brought into the conversation by those who believe in God ... no one expects an atheist to understand that ... so why don't you stop trying. I can't imagine a world without God.. you can't imagine a world with God... we, and many other posters here, can't, and never will, relate. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "Mini" Posted by Watching you on 18:30:22 9/17/2001 you are an atheist, and that is okay with me, but don't you ever try to deny me my faith in a just and loving God. I will bring God into whatever I wish to bring Him into. I will not be silenced about God because you do not believe. You continue to speak nonsense about posters who don't seem to care about obliterating innocents in the name of vengeance when that is so far from the truth. If you would take off your blinders you would see that no one wants to kill innocents. How about some concern about the men, women and children who were killed in your own country? How about some concern about the innocents who may still be killed in your own country? God help us all, including the non-believers. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "Never Mind, WY" Posted by Real Stormy on 18:39:09 9/17/2001 Another person seeking attention. I think if the planes were raining down on her head, she would suddenly find God. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 69. "mini" Posted by starry on 18:57:54 9/17/2001 you're beginning to.......... nah,,,,,,,, never mind....... enjoy your beliefs and perhaps you'd be happier if you didn't live in the United States. UNITED STATES. UNITED WE STAND. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 70. "To my fans" Posted by Mini on 19:07:45 9/17/2001 R.S. Nope W.Y. You have a habit of taking what someone says and distorting it way beyond what was originally said. To you all--my ethics and morals have been well-thought through and are not dependent on something that was inculcated into me as a child. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 76. "mini" Posted by starry on 04:03:32 9/18/2001 >R.S. NopeW.Y. You have a habit of >taking what someone says and distorting >it way beyond what was originally >said.To you all--my ethics and morals >have been well-thought through and are >not dependent on something that was >inculcated into me as a child. > you have me mistaken with someone who cares what you think. I'm not a fan of yours. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 72. "I'm Sorry, Mini" Posted by Real Stormy on 19:17:28 9/17/2001 That you do not have the comfort that one finds in a religious faith. I will pray for you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 73. "R.S." Posted by Mini on 20:32:24 9/17/2001 Well, thanks, I needed that. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 74. "v.p." Posted by Mandarin on 00:38:57 9/18/2001 Perhaps you're confusing me with another poster. Never at ANY TIME did I say Ben Ladin should be given a trial, fair or not, by anyone here or there. Trials to me are a waste of everyone's bloody time. To see a bunch of defense lawyers in a frenzied feeding of the trough would be far too much for me to stomach in the U.S. or anywhere. Ben Ladin has now got the world's attention and I feel he would not mind dying so I'm with you there, perhaps torture him first (secretly) and then kill the SOB. Sorry, but I too, hate religious fanatics and by that I do not mean people who practice Christianity, Judaism, Islamic beliefs, the Koran, whatever. I just hate fanatics and terrorists period. I believe Tim McVey, our very own ugly American was a religious and military fanatic. But do I condemn all Americans, military personnel or ordinary citizens who belong to one denomination or another. NO WAY! But let me say something v.p. are you prepared for an "all out war" even if it means we lose, as we did in Vietnam? I think we all want retalliation and resolution but we have to wait and see what our leaders choose as the best course. They have the experience and my hope is that they zero in on the specific targets of terrorists cell, whatever that means and however they choose to do it. This is real life, for all the nations of the world, and unfortunately it will not be resolved in a 90 minute movie of the week, while we all sit back and eat our popcorn. Like you v.p. in the U.S., 62 countries lost citizens in the NY disaster and they were all of different races, religions and beliefs. Peace v.p. I still love ya! Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 75. "Lurker" Posted by Flanagan on 04:11:32 9/18/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 04:11:32, 9/18/2001 I never said I was Irish. I'm Spanish, and I could talk spanish, catalan, french, and some portuguese, italian and a little bit of english. If you want, we can go on with this debate in any of these languages. I won't blame you if your spanish, frenh... etc has a Buchalukistan's edge. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 86. "Hi, Pedro," Posted by LurkerXIV on 10:45:19 9/18/2001 I love your new nickname. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 77. "mini" Posted by Watching you on 04:54:07 9/18/2001 **W.Y. You have a habit of taking what someone says and distorting it way beyond what was originally said.** Whatever, mini. Who do you suppose all those people who were in that building were calling out to at the moment of their death? Oh my non-God, please help me? Oh my monkey's uncle, please deliver me? Your hat fits you well, mini. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 78. "Channeling my rage" Posted by Ally on 05:09:35 9/18/2001 Because I cannot stay in this state of mind to infinity. It sounds like they are making noise *over there* to hand Bin Laden over to a neutral (lol) country.. nobody wants him and it seems they finally believe US retaliation is imminent. I am hoping not, but que sera sera. I am impressed by our current show of force in that everyone now knows the U.S. has power, clout, and the ability to carry out a swift and sure retaliation. Most of the world is with us. Pakistan has agreed to our every demand. Afghanistan is begging us not to attack and the Taliban is ready to hand that bad boy over. Guest, indeed. Trial? I don't think so. I can just imagine the backlash by Laden wannabe's the world over.. terrorist activity everywhere with this cell and that cell claiming responsibility, *demanding* that their Leader is released or the random acts of terrorism will continue. No. Don't go for it. No prolonged trial. Stop terrorism now. GOD BLESS THE USA [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 79. "Mandarin" Posted by Harley on 05:44:35 9/18/2001 we did not try to win Vietnam, this one we will with Gods help. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 80. "Ally" Posted by Watching you on 05:51:11 9/18/2001 I hadn't heard that the Taliban is ready to hand bin Laden over to anyone, but I haven't been able to listen to the news this morning. I know they were waffling a bit yesterday, saying their religious leaders would have to make the decision. Frankly, I don't trust them. While they are stalling for time, bin Laden's operatives all over the world could be setting up for more attacks. I also have some concerns about factions within our own country using this time for their own purposes. Tim McVeigh was not the head of that snake - he was only a small part of the tail. We need to be ever vigilant, the enemy is within as well as without. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 81. "Exactly!...." Posted by bootz913 on 06:49:26 9/18/2001 Real Stormy and Watching You. "there are no atheists in foxholes" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 82. "clearing the air" Posted by pinker on 08:06:08 9/18/2001 Atheists have as much faith as any who pray to an almighty power, we just put it all into people. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 83. "Religious Tolerence includes tolerence..." Posted by Dunvegan on 09:56:31 9/18/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 09:56:31, 9/18/2001 ...for athiests. Tolerence does not requrire you to agree, but does require reason and respect, and an ability to engage or ignore...but respectfully. Let's continue to pursue that American course. I'll ask if we can extend our tolerence...not that we aren't all stretching our tolerence to the breaking point...but, I'm hoping that it is not broken yet. This country is founded on the idea of tolerence...and that basic idea has been evolving over the centuries to inclued all. Sorry to step in...it's just that I'd like to see us rise above religious wars here on this board, just as the entire the free world is embroiled in the fight to resist religious wars. We are all free in America to believe whatever we wish about a supreme being. This is a free country, one of the reasons I'm willing to give my life for this country...and I want to suppport those freedoms to my dying breath. Now...if a Taliban supporter weighs in here...MY religious tolerence will be streched to the limit...but, I pray that I will not have to face that...at least not today. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 84. "Why?" Posted by Jerrya on 10:01:47 9/18/2001 Why? Why? Why? Why did this tragedy happen. Maybe to third world counties, but not to mighty America! It is aggrieve to think that if we do not find the right solution to this problem and to choose the right path, we will be on the same road as we are on now. We must look inside and examine the self. Cause and effect! Has our government been honest with us? Vengeance is not the answer. We are better than this. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 85. "Not me!!" Posted by freebird on 10:27:59 9/18/2001 I am not better than this, I want to know that EVERY TERRORIST has been hunted down and destroyed! I want them and their supporters to know that the line was crossed. Being american does not mean we are born without the same capabilities to hate as others, we make a choice to advocate justice and fair play, we are all struggling with our desire to hate and destroy,I think some parts of the world need to be reminded that WE also can be ruthless and cause massive destruction, they need to feel and fear the consquences of provoking others to the point of no return. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 87. "To each his own" Posted by Watching you on 10:53:29 9/18/2001 I have no particular gripe against atheists. I do, however, draw the line at being told to leave God out of this. Tolerance goes both ways. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 88. "Tolerance" Posted by Flanagan on 11:11:52 9/18/2001 I didn't ordered you to leave god apart of this. I just stated my opinion. That's what's the forum is for. Or no? Tolerance includes respecting other's opinions. I respect (although not support) yours. But I know this is a lost battle, especially after reading Jerry Falwell's and Pat Robertson's stataments. And to RStormy: You said "An eye for an eye..." (Old Testament. There's a New one too) Ghandi said: "An eye for an eye... and the wold will end blind" An Einstein said: "I don't know when will began the 3trd World War... but I'm certain that the Fourth will be figth with bats and stones" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 91. "Watching You" Posted by Mini on 11:41:43 9/18/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:41:43, 9/18/2001 As an atheist, I've never lowered myself to name-calling, personal attacks, bad language, twisting people's words, messages of hate, or advocated killing people. H-m-m-m, maybe there's something to atheism. And where did you ever get the idea that I don't care about all those who have died? Pinker, your post was absolutely right. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 89. "Lurker" Posted by Flanagan on 11:24:56 9/18/2001 Lurker: My name is not Pedro. By the way, I'm still waiting for your response to make "Good, creative writing" in other languages. Maybe you just can speak one? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 96. "She is too busy" Posted by RiverRat on 13:05:18 9/18/2001 Looking for Pedro everywhere to answer you. If she kept her hat on and tripped on over the Terrorist Attack forum, Pedro is there. And he doesn't seem too nervous. As a matter of fact, it look's like he is providing this forum once again with the cold hard facts and not swooping in to re-open old wounds on top of the new ones that we are trying to adjust to like so many others are reduced to. LOVE seeing true nature emerge...... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 90. "Flanagan" Posted by Watching you on 11:30:20 9/18/2001 I was not referring to anything you said. Nothing you said bothered me. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 92. "mini" Posted by Watching you on 11:47:12 9/18/2001 I did not twist your posts. I did not call you a name. I did not personally attack you. I do not advocate killing INNOCENT people. I get the idea you care more about the rights of the terrorists than you do the innocent people who died. You gave me that idea yourself in your own words. I'm not interested in your self-promoting santimonious drivel. Stop using your atheism as a platform to make false assertions against those who disagree with your kid glove treatment of terrorists. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 93. "In my own words?" Posted by Mini on 11:55:05 9/18/2001 I never said any such thing and I have never made false assertions about you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 94. "Agree to disagree? PLEASE?" Posted by Ayeka on 12:24:31 9/18/2001 Pope, you missed the point. China's government is with us. Fidel Castro is with us. Arafat has made a statement to the effect that the children dancing in the street have been dealt with. If the leaders lead, the people will follow. v_p, thank you (sincerely), that was the one I was referring to. So sad that some people insist on blaming innocent people for a horror that is difficult to comprehend. Ignorance and prejudice rear their ugly heads. For the poster who wants to "hunt all the terrorists down and kill them", I have a sincere question -- do you really think that will end terrorism, or would it just make you feel better? I honestly ask that sincerely. For every terrorist that is hunted down and killed, they will leave behind a brother, a son, a sister, friends, who will turn around and say "See? We have been proved right." This is not about the rights of terrorists or any crunchy-granolay point of view. It's seriously contemplating the long term effects of any retaliation we might take. It may be the only way we can go, but if we really think it's going to eliminate terrorism, we're deluding ourselves. Ayeka [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 95. "athiests, religionists, republicans, muslims, everybody...." Posted by Shee on 12:49:48 9/18/2001 gotta give up this instant jump to anger. Why are we all so quick to be angry, I am just as guilty, just not this time... Anger is killing us in droves, Let us cunsel and share wisdoms, let us separate and think, meditate and let information about each other's cultures resonate within us; I am reminded of a first act in my early social work years. The Mayor of my city saw me upon a committee and asked me to investigate a slew of Pakistani families moving into one bedroom apartments with 9 or 11 or so family members....where would they each sleep?? When I arrived at one of these homes I met a young man who was a student at my same Graduate School. I asked him about the beds, he said, you know, I have been longing to ask some American, why do you devote an entire room to the sleep of one person?...he showed me his family kept bed rolls in a closet, and they have many screens, so if a person wants to sleep, they take a bedroll and a screen and voila! for their sleep , they have a perfect space, and when they rise, the bedroll is re-closeted, the screen folded back and the space returned to communal use! So, that is to say you say tomato, I say Tomahto....... let's not fall upon each other in anger.....let's not be sure that differences are negative. I thought of my self as an atiest for much of my childhood, although I could never doubt the Angels, who were by my side, the idea the G-d let that happen to me as a child made me so angry I tried to turn away......let's welcome Mini, and here Mini's thoughts, and simply be more informed than we were yesterday. shee [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 97. "Ayeka and mini" Posted by Ally on 13:48:12 9/18/2001 have opened my mind to a broader point of view, and while I do not advocate everything they advocate, I admire them for stating the obvious without resembling the zealots. You know, it seems to me we've been trying to "take out" terrorists for years.. are they not gone yet? : ) And we finally gave up trying to "take out" Castro, didn't we. He's in plain sight, and he's not take-outable. I am leaving all this to our leaders and to God. And doing what I can to be the person my family looks up to and my friends rely on. I can't do that if I'm screaming KILL THE BASTARD every waking moment. It'd be enough to make you insane. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 98. "Whats sad is. . ." Posted by freebird on 14:24:09 9/18/2001 "I am leaving all this to our leaders and to God. And doing what I can to be the person my family looks up to and my friends rely on. I can't do that if I'm screaming KILL THE BASTARD every waking moment. It'd be enough to make you insane." Some people can no longer be the person their families look up too and relied on. They are forever gone by the act of a madman. I choose to remember the REAL victims. I have no sympathy for the monster who trains or brainwashes others to eliminate a whole nation off the face of the earth. Have some of you not seen this man agenda? and, yes I do believe that cutting the heads off of dragons will eventually make them useless. This man is just another hitler and needs to be eliminated,then the bleeding heart pacifics can put flowers on his grave. That is of course if he's not eliminated us by then. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 99. "Please don't" Posted by Ally on 15:01:14 9/18/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:01:14, 9/18/2001 make me say what I am not saying. I grieve every day, and my outrage is there, buried within me. All I am saying is that I cannot function on "outrage" day in and day out. Okay it's not for everyone.. but positive patriotism, it works for me. I believe we will get them. Every last one of them. We have a worldwide coalition against terrorism, and we will get them. Our leaders make progress toward that end every day. The intricate plot of these terrorists has [hopefully] been stopped cold. They carried out only a few hours of terrorism out of a planned worldwide assault, according to the latest AP wire. It's both frightening yet encouraging at the same time. We have the Intelligence to ferret them out. And we will. How will we find them? How will we fight this war? http://slate.msn.com/foreigners/entries/01-09-16_115625.asp Snippet- No permanent solution can be created by finding a few of "our bastards" to set against "their bastards" either. The logo doesn't say The New War for nothing. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 100. "I can't believe" Posted by 1000Sparks on 07:07:43 9/19/2001 that someone who can't sing God Bless America can be so liberal on handling these terrorist kindly. My God is an awesome God... Be not afraid.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 102. "Excellent Read" Posted by Colorado Babe on 09:20:46 9/20/2001 To All: This was written by Academic Advisor at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, CO. His words are the ones that haven't been heard yet but I believe will come to be true before we have the chance to recover from this initial tragedy..... Recently, I was asked to look at the recent events through the lens of military history. I have joined the cast of thousands who have written an "open letter to Americans." Please share it if you feel so moved. Dear friends and fellow Americans 14 September, 2001 Like everyone else in this great country, I am reeling from last week's attack on our sovereignty. But unlike some, I am not reeling from surprise. As a career soldier and a student and teacher of military history, I have a different perspective and I think you should hear it. This war will be won or lost by the American citizens, not diplomats, politicians or soldiers. Let me briefly explain. In spite of what the media, and even our own government is telling us, this act was not committed by a group of mentally deranged fanatics. To dismiss them as such would be among the gravest of mistakes. This attack was committed by a ferocious, intelligent and dedicated adversary. Don't take this the wrong way. I don't admire these men and I deplore their tactics, but I respect their capabilities. The many parallels that have been made with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor are apropos. Not only because it was a brilliant sneak attack against a complacent America, but also because we may well be pulling our new adversaries out of caves 30 years after we think this war is over, just like my father's generation had to do with the formidable Japanese in the years following WW II. These men hate the United States with all of their being, and we must not underestimate the power of their moral commitment. Napoleon, perhaps the world's greatest combination of soldier and statesman, stated "the moral is to the physical as three is to one." Patton thought the Frenchman underestimated its importance and said moral conviction was five times more important in battle than physical strength. Our enemies are willing - better said anxious - to give their lives for their cause. How committed are we America? And for how long? In addition to demonstrating great moral conviction, the recent attack demonstrated a mastery of some of the basic fundamentals of warfare taught to most military officers worldwide, namely simplicity, security and surprise. When I first heard rumors that some of these men may have been trained at our own Air War College, it made perfect sense to me. This was not a random act of violence, and we can expect the same sort of military competence to be displayed in the battle to come. This war will escalate, with a good portion of it happening right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. These men will not go easily into the night. They do not fear us. We must not fear them. In spite of our overwhelming conventional strength as the world's only "superpower" (a truly silly term), we are the underdog in this fight. As you listen to the carefully scripted rhetoric designed to prepare us for the march for war, please realize that America is not equipped or seriously trained for the battle ahead. To be certain, our soldiers are much better than the enemy, and we have some excellent "counter-terrorist" organizations, but they are mostly trained for hostage rescues, airfield seizures, or the occasional "body snatch," (which may come in handy). We will be fighting a war of annihilation, because if their early efforts are any indication, our enemy is ready and willing to die to the last man. Eradicating the enemy will be costly and time consuming. They have already deployed their forces in as many as 20 countries, and are likely living the lives of everyday citizens. Simply put, our soldiers will be tasked with a! search and destroy mission on multiple foreign landscapes, and the public must be patient and supportive until the strategy and tactics can be worked out. For the most part, our military is still in the process of redefining itself and presided over by men and women who grew up with - and were promoted because they excelled in - Cold War doctrine, strategy and tactics. This will not be linear warfare, there will be no clear "centers of gravity" to strike with high technology weapons. Our vast technological edge will certainly be helpful, but it will not be decisive. Perhaps the perfect metaphor for the coming battle was introduced by the terrorists themselves aboard the hijacked aircraft - this will be a knife fight, and it will be won or lost by the ingenuity and will of citizens and soldiers, not by software or smart bombs. We must also be patient with our military leaders. Unlike Americans who are eager to put this messy time behind us, our adversaries have time on their side, and they will use it. They plan to fight a battle of attrition, hoping to drag the battle out until the American public loses its will to fight. This might be difficult to believe in this euphoric time of flag waving and patriotism, but it is generally acknowledged that America lacks the stomach for a long fight. We need only look as far back as Vietnam, when North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap (also a military history teacher) defeated the United States of America without ever winning a major tactical battle. American soldiers who marched to war cheered on by flag waving Americans in 1965 were reviled and spat upon less than three years later when they returned. Although we hope that Usama Bin Laden is no Giap, he is certain to understand and employ the concept. We can expect not only large doses of pain like the recent attacks, but! also less audacious "sand in the gears" tactics, ranging from livestock infestations to attacks at water supplies and power distribution facilities. These attacks are designed to hit us in our "comfort zone" forcing the average American to "pay more and play less" and eventually eroding our resolve. But it can only work if we let it. It is clear to me that the will of the American citizenry - you and I - is the center of gravity the enemy has targeted. It will be the fulcrum upon which victory or defeat will turn. He believes us to be soft, impatient,and self-centered. He may be right, but if so, we must change. The Prussian General Carl von Clausewitz, (the most often quoted and least read military theorist in history), says that there is a "remarkable trinity of war" that is composed of the (1) will of the people, (2) the political leadership of the government, and (3) the chance and probability that plays out on the field of battle, in that order. Every American citizen was in the crosshairs of last Tuesday's attack, not just those that were unfortunate enough to be in the World Trade Center or Pentagon. The will of the American people will decide this war. If we are to win, it will be because we have what it takes to persevere through a few more hits, learn from our! mistakes, improvise, and adapt. If we can do that, we will eventually prevail. Everyone I've talked to In the past few days has shared a common frustration, saying in one form or another "I just wish I could do something!" You are already doing it. Just keep faith in America, and continue to support your President and military, and the outcome is certain. If we fail to do so, the outcome is equally certain. God Bless America Dr. Tony Kern, Lt Col, USAF (Ret) Former Director of Military History, USAF Academy [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 103. "Images" Posted by JR on 10:32:04 9/20/2001 My sister just sent me this site address. I think most here will appreciate it. http://www.top-greetings.com/cards/299/ [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 109. "JR, i liked that site a lot !" Posted by purr on 20:00:15 9/21/2001 i saved it to my favorites.....and i am emailing to friends and family. thanks for sharing it! prayers and angels sent your way, purr [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 104. "Author Unknown" Posted by JR on 10:41:19 9/20/2001 The Binch Every U down in Uville liked U.S. a lot, But the Binch, who lived Far East of Uville, did not. The Binch hated U.S! The whole U.S. way! Now don't ask me why, for nobody can say, It could be his turban was screwed on too tight. Or the sun from the desert had beaten too bright But I think that the most likely reason of all May have been that his heart was two sizes too small. But, Whatever the reason, his heart or his turban, He stood facing Uville, the part that was urban. "They're doing their business," he snarled from his perch. "They're raising their families! They're going to church! They're leading the world, and their empire is thriving, I MUST keep the S's and U's from surviving!" Tomorrow, he knew, all the U's and the S's, Would put on their pants and their shirts and their dresses, They'd go to their offices, playgrounds and schools, And abide by their U and S values and rules, And then they'd do something he liked least of all, Every U down in U-ville, the tall and the small, Would stand all united, each U and each S, And they'd sing Uville's anthem, "God bless us! God bless!" All around their Twin Towers of Uville, they'd stand, and their voices would drown every sound in the land. "I must stop that singing," Binch said with a smirk, And he had an idea--an idea that might work! The Binch stole some U airplanes in U morning hours, And crashed them right into the Uville Twin Towers. "They'll wake to disaster!" he snickered, so sour, "And how can they sing when they can't find a tower?" The Binch cocked his ear as they woke from their sleeping, All set to enjoy their U-wailing and weeping, Instead he heard something that started quite low, And it built up quite slow, but it started to grow-And the Binch heard the most unpredictable thing... And he couldn't believe it--they started to sing! He stared down at U-ville, not trusting his eyes, What he saw was a shocking, disgusting surprise! Every U down in U-ville, the tall and the small, Was singing! Without any towers at all! He HADN'T stopped U-Ville from singing! It sung! For down deep in the hearts of the old and the young, Those Twin Towers were standing, called Hope and called Pride, And you can't smash the towers we hold deep inside. So we circle the sites where our heroes did fall, With a hand in each hand of the tall and the small, And we mourn for our losses while knowing we'll cope, For we still have inside that U-Pride and U-Hope. For America means a bit more than tall towers, It means more than wealth or political powers, It's more than our enemies ever could guess, So may God bless America! Bless us! God bless! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 106. "JR," Posted by LurkerXIV on 17:48:05 9/20/2001 I received this poem from a southern cousin today. You folks down there are right on the ball! I posted it in the terrorism forum before coming over here and finding you had posted it first. Dun, you can remove that other thread. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 105. "Take Stock In America" Posted by JR on 11:52:31 9/20/2001 I noticed some are discussing buying stock even if it's just one share. IMHO a double whammy would be to buy that share in one of these (or like) companies. Applied Signal Technology, Inc. APSG Boeing BA General Electric Aircraft Engines GE General Dynamics GD Honeywell Inc. HON Litton LIT-A Lockheed Martin LMT Northrop Grumman NOC Raytheon RTN Hughes HUG Rockwell ROK Textron TXT TRW TRW United Technologies UTX Though generally not considered the most profitable investment, Bonds would be right up there on my buy list just as a show of support. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 107. "grrrr..." Posted by samantha on 07:46:22 9/21/2001 I'm glad I didn't see any of this against the Firemen... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL samantha ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE