Justice Watch "AOL Warrant" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... AOL Warrant, Tricia, 09:01:33, 9/19/2001 Thanks Tricia, RiverRat, 09:20:11, 9/19/2001, (#1) Tricia... , ACandyRose, 11:25:49, 9/19/2001, (#2) The "Star" article, ACandyRose, 11:31:44, 9/19/2001, (#3) ACandyRose, Tricia, 12:13:06, 9/19/2001, (#4) Tricia, zapata, 12:47:42, 9/19/2001, (#7) Tricia, zapata, 12:27:51, 9/19/2001, (#5) Oh no, don't touch, Watching you, 12:36:05, 9/19/2001, (#6) Watching You!!, zapata, 12:54:01, 9/19/2001, (#8) ah, gee, Zapata, Watching you, 12:57:25, 9/19/2001, (#9) Watching You, zapata, 19:23:04, 9/19/2001, (#27) Watching You, zapata, 14:09:41, 9/19/2001, (#11) Watching You, zapata, 14:51:49, 9/19/2001, (#13) Watching You, zapata, 09:35:05, 9/20/2001, (#40) Thanks, zapata..., LurkerXIV, 13:57:42, 9/19/2001, (#10) Lurker, zapata, 14:34:17, 9/19/2001, (#12) Let me see...can I work up sympathy for the..., Dunvegan, 15:02:39, 9/19/2001, (#15) Lurker, zapata, 15:02:37, 9/19/2001, (#14) Zapata, Watching you, 15:08:28, 9/19/2001, (#16) Watching You, zapata, 15:26:30, 9/19/2001, (#17) Zapata, Watching you, 15:29:27, 9/19/2001, (#18) Yeah, right, Jameson, Watching you, 15:43:48, 9/19/2001, (#19) I'm afraid my legal counsel advises me to..., Dunvegan, 15:54:03, 9/19/2001, (#20) Dunvegan and Watching You, zapata, 18:54:20, 9/19/2001, (#25) zapata and acr, starry, 16:07:02, 9/19/2001, (#21) Starry, zapata, 19:31:26, 9/19/2001, (#28) Zapata...you are amazing!, Show Me, 17:01:07, 9/19/2001, (#23) Zapata and BJ...go get 'em..., Dunvegan, 16:38:52, 9/19/2001, (#22) Dunvegan, Starry & Show me, zapata, 19:17:37, 9/19/2001, (#26) Show Me: When the legal resolution has taken cours..., Dunvegan, 17:06:17, 9/19/2001, (#24) Great Zap ..., Mandarin, 19:33:51, 9/19/2001, (#29) Mandarin, zapata, 10:39:01, 9/20/2001, (#45) What a lovely thread!, LurkerXIV, 20:47:55, 9/19/2001, (#30) Lurker, RiverRat, 06:23:18, 9/20/2001, (#37) Foster and Jameson, Jeanilou, 21:15:53, 9/19/2001, (#31) Jeanilou, zapata, 10:44:33, 9/20/2001, (#46) Z....., rose, 22:06:38, 9/19/2001, (#33) Rose, zapata, 09:54:23, 9/20/2001, (#41) Rose, zapata, 09:57:00, 9/20/2001, (#42) Rose, zapata, 10:34:16, 9/20/2001, (#44) Hi Jeanilou!, Thor, 21:31:51, 9/19/2001, (#32) Jeanilou, zapata, 15:35:17, 9/26/2001, (#61) Friends for JonBenet, Inc, Moab, 22:54:11, 9/19/2001, (#34) Moab, zapata, 11:21:49, 9/20/2001, (#48) I wonder, zapata, 17:52:29, 9/21/2001, (#60) IMO, starry, 03:43:45, 9/20/2001, (#35) Dunvegan-Zapata-Moab, Jerrya, 06:11:32, 9/20/2001, (#36) Jerrya, zapata, 11:02:26, 9/20/2001, (#47) Thank you so much, jerrya, Dunvegan, 06:44:18, 9/20/2001, (#38) Jameson at work?, Jeanilou, 09:21:37, 9/20/2001, (#39) Jeanilou, zapata, 11:49:32, 9/20/2001, (#49) Here you go, Tricia, 10:00:14, 9/20/2001, (#43) Contact Info for GA Charity Investigative Agencies, Dunvegan, 16:11:16, 9/20/2001, (#51) Zapata & All, Jerrya, 14:02:43, 9/20/2001, (#50) Jerrya, zapata, 15:57:41, 9/26/2001, (#62) Jerrya, zapata, 17:40:57, 9/20/2001, (#55) And, Jerrya...that makes the records private., Dunvegan, 16:12:58, 9/20/2001, (#52) "Prayers", Sabrina, 16:24:25, 9/20/2001, (#53) Sabrina, zapata, 17:11:31, 9/20/2001, (#54) Not to mention how heineous, cruel, and vicious..., Dunvegan, 17:43:51, 9/20/2001, (#56) Dunvegan, zapata, 16:08:16, 9/26/2001, (#63) Zapata,,,,,, rose, 20:44:39, 9/20/2001, (#57) Great work, all!, Ayeka, 11:31:41, 9/21/2001, (#58) Suzanne Goebel's Website, Jeanilou, 16:25:45, 9/21/2001, (#59) Jeanilou, zapata, 16:23:18, 9/26/2001, (#64) Zapata, Nedthan Johns, 17:23:05, 9/26/2001, (#65) By the way, Nedthan Johns, 17:25:10, 9/26/2001, (#66) ................................................................... "AOL Warrant" Posted by Tricia on 09:01:33 9/19/2001 Mrs.Brady posted this the other day . Candy at CyberSleuths was able to get a copy of the warrant served on AOL concerning Jameson's account. http://www.cybersleuths.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003080.html Interesting reading. By the way for someone who has "done nothing wrong" hir AOL account, for some reason, is still not up. Tricia [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "Thanks Tricia" Posted by RiverRat on 09:20:11 9/19/2001 She is beside hirself with Beckner following through on this tip she sent in. She posted that she has far more credible leads than this one that she wishes he would pursue. Like What?! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Tricia... " Posted by ACandyRose on 11:25:49 9/19/2001 In her mind she has done nothing wrong because she turned in a tip. Well, that's all fine and dandy but turning the "tip" is not what is wrong here. Apparently relating to this particular incident, from what I can make of the whole deal, Jameson and another unknown person had an IMS or e-mail conversation with this Jazzy poster. That "other" unknown person didn't want to take responsibility for that IMS/e-mail conversation and wanted to remain anonymous so Jameson, in an attempt to protect that "other" person doctored up the "other" persons original document logs of that conversation with the Jazzy poster and Jameson replace the "other" anonymous posters name with one Jameson dreamed up, which was the "jamesonposter" name. So here is one of the problems. (based on my understanding from reading both Jameson and Lovely Pigeon's postings on various forums of what transpired and reading the warrant) The warrant names three AOL account names, the "B n Jazzy4ever45" "Jameson245" and "Jamesonposter" because all three names were listed as part of the copied IMS logs that Jameson sent to Beckner. Detective Trujillo obviously requested the warrant for the three names because the three names were listed as part of the copied AOL IMS/e-mail logs. Whether Beckner or Trujillo were informed in advance via Jameson (she claims she told Beckner) that one of the logs was edited to replace the anonymous persons name to protect that person is irrelevant to the fact that a legal protocol needed to be followed through. But only two of the names, the "B n Jazzy4ever45" "Jameson245" are legitimate real AOL account names. The "jamesonposter" is a phony name but that phony name was edited on a copied log to be interpreted as being a REAL AOL IMS/e-mail log by Jameson. It is hard to say what the AOL legal department thought when they were being requested to provide actual logs from an account (jamesonposter) that doesn't exist (except in Jameson's mind) that is specifically mentioned within a legal warrant as being an AOL account that had correspondence with a poster via that assumed AOL account who posted a confession to a murder. Naturally Jameson can't understand why after she told Beckner about the phony "jamesonposter" creation that the BPD would still get a warrant. If anybody else had done what Jameson did editing a log sent in as a tip to the BPD she would be screaming to the top of her lungs. She is still screaming today saying the famous Mother's Day logs that outed her in 1997 from playing the male role of Jameson were edited. She has screamed for years saying that somebody else posted under her hat name on the forums and that it wasn't her. (but she condemns Foster for reading all of those thousands of so called phony Jameson hats) And then she has no problem 5 years later to make up a name like "jamesonposter" to create an edited log to pass in as a valid legal tip. Help me understand this? Can you even imagine if any one of the BPD completed any reports in the last 5 years relating to this murder and they put false information in those reports with a little verbal side note to somebody that the information was false and that they only did it to protect somebody that it would be okay dokey with the Ramsey's defense team including Jameson. I think not. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL ACandyRose ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "The "Star" article" Posted by ACandyRose on 11:31:44 9/19/2001 Here's the latest: ======================== Star Magazine is September 25, 2001 Title of story is "JonBenet: Cops Probe New E-Mail Evidence" Four years after the death of JonBenet Ramsey, Boulder, Colorado cops are at odds again with her mom and dad over a blockbuster new lead in the case. Detectives are probing a startling internet tip from a person who claims to have witnessed the young beauty queen's murder at the hand of an intruder. JonBenet's mom Patsy is hoping that this last development takes the finger of suspicion off her and her millionaire husband. "John and I have been praying for something like this for a long time. We have been praying for the killer to confess - to confess and repent and get on with what has to be done," she says. But cops are skeptical "The police have been accused in the past of only looking at the Ramseys as possible suspects in their daughter's slaying," says a source close to the case, "But John and Patsy are pressuring them to keep an open mind and actively pursue this latest lead." The anonymous message was posted by an America Online subscriber on August 7, one day after what would have been Jonenet's 11th birthday. "This is very had for me to say and I hope everyone can find somewhere in their hearts to forgive me, " read the chilling note postd under the screen name BnJazzy4_ever_45. "I was there when the whole thing occurred. I never wanted to be any part of it, but they said if I didn't help I would be killed as well." "I was only 14 when this took place, so I went along with the whole plan. I left no trace of anything and the police and FBI are not aware I was at the crime scene." "The other that performed in this horrible crime was an intruder and said if I mentioned his name anywhere he would make it so I was his second victim. He worked as a handyman in the Ramsey home and had a key. I just wanted you all to know so you all know that the parents had nothing to do with it. To everyone out there still concerned.....I'm sorry. Happy 11th Birthday JonBenet." Detectives immediately filed an affidavit for a search warrant to obtain the Internet confessors name, alternate screen names, aliases, buddy lists and e-mail files. The original e-mail address has since been canceled. The affidavit was filed with the Loudoun, Va, District Court, home of AOL's Internet service in Dulles, Va. A Loudoun investtigator sent information that Boulder was seeking Sept. 7, by Federal Express. The confession was first reported via e-mail to Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner by a woman who runs a Ramsey case website under the name "Jameson." The confession was not posted on Jameson's site, but on one known as maketoast.com. Jameson told Boulder police that she had traded messages with the author of the note over the Internet, and that the person claims to be a female who was forced to observe JonBenet's brutal murder after overhearing plans for the crime. Although the killer in the message is alleged to be a handyman who had previously worked at the Ramsey house Jameson considers the e-mail author's story to be suspect. JonBenet, 6 was found by her millionaire father - garroted and bludgeoned - in the basement of her parents' mansion the afternoon of Dec. 26, 1996. Boulder cops still say JonBenet's parents remain "under the umbrella of suspicion" and are prime suspects in the case. Tipster Jameson, whose real name is Sue Bennett, says: "However strange this information appears, the police must do the right thing and treat it seriously." ======================== [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL ACandyRose ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "ACandyRose" Posted by Tricia on 12:13:06 9/19/2001 Thank you so much for explaining this convoluted crap Hir is trying to pull off. So if Hir has done nothing wrong then why is hir AOL account still frozen? I bet AOL doesn't take kindly to people trying to pull off what hir did. I wonder if this really could lead to obstruction charges? Thanks again ACR Tricia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Tricia" Posted by zapata on 08:45:07 9/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:45:07, 9/20/2001 After reading ACR's account of what she believes took place, I too believe that is what happened in this case. Giving false information to the police is a crime. If this is the case, Jameson has finally pushed the button too far, and has broken the law. I believe that is why she has an attorney. May the chips fall where they may. Jameson should have enough sense to know that every call you make to a law enforcement officer is going to be recorded. That is how the police prove what was told them when they received a tip. Tom Trujillo, I think I love you!!!!! edited to change Mark Beckner's name to the person's name who followed through in getting the search warrant. Tom Trujillo. Thank you Mr. Trujillo and Mr. Beckner!!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Tricia" Posted by zapata on 15:20:00 9/19/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:20:00, 9/19/2001 Jameson has forgotten that everyone does not take her word as gospel. Why wouldn't Mark Beckner get a warrant for a supposed confessor's e-mail account and AOL I'M messages? Why should he take Jameson's word that the Im's had not been changed or altered? I got to hand it to Beckner for calling Jameson's and the Ramsey's bluff on this so-called-confessor. How would Jameson supply the previous screen names of jazzy and all of jazzy's aol info? When and how long this person was on-line? She couldn't. I still wonder who was using Jameson245 on IM while Jameson was using the jamesonposter screen name. Who was it she was protecting? That person using Jameson245 hat was also I'ming with the jazzy person. Is the person Jameson is supposedly protecting, JAR? They are awfully chummy, since Jameson feels a need to post his email to her on her forum. I am thinkng that Professor Foster did correctly identify the Jameson poster early in 97. I do not think JAR had anything to do with the murder of JonBenet, but think he was being used as a scap-goat. We have already seen that the Ramsey's, even though they claim in "DOI" that they will never read the autopsy report, will freely let Lou Smit go on national television and tape in the July 2001 Tracey crock photos of their daughter in death and show them to the world. How sick can you get? How heartless is that? How taking away the last dignity Jonbenet was allowed is helpful in finding the murderer is helpful, I do not know. How can a parent disgrace their child in such a manner? They definately knew what Lou and Tracey were doing since they, themselves, appeared in the 2001 crock, even if it was just on video-tape. No one will ever make me or 12 reasonable juror's believe that they did not know that these horrible pictures would be shown to the world. After all Lou Smit is working for the Ramseys. I could go on and on, there is no limit to the outrage I am feeling. Then they allow Suzanne Goebel to open that disgusting sight www.friendsforjonbenet.org . I get furious when I go to that site, and I go just to keep up with what they are doing there, it makes me feel that the Ramseys are allowing JonBenet to be raped and murdered all over again. That site is disgusting. Money, money, money is all the Ramseys think about. God have mercy on their soul. At least more mercy than was shown to Jonbenet. It is my belief that John Ramsey knew in October 96 that his job with Access Graphics would end in May 97. See the October 96 iusse's of the Denver Business Journal where Sun Microsystems announced they were going to open up a plant that would employ 3500 people in the Denver area. Then read the "Back To Work" Chapter in "DOI". Read how Sun Microsystems had been keeping Access alive. I believe after Jonbenet was murdered Lockheed tried to get rid of John Ramsey gracefully, and plans changed. I believe that Sun Microsystems would have no further use for Access Graphics after they opened their own offices in Denver. I beleive that Patsy wrote the ransom amount of $118,000 because she knew that is all they could come up with, and she knew that they had to make an appearance of getting the ransom amount together. (Why else would John Ramsey, supposed millionaire, have to get an advance on his visa card?) Also, on page 141 of the paperback edition of "DOI" John writes, " Patsy and I had discussed my leaving the business around May of 1997". You will have to read this for yourselves and come to your own conclussions, since I do not wish to break copy-right laws as I believe a forum owner has in what she calls her "companion to the Steve Thomas book". Suzanne Goebel insists to me that she has the Ramsey's blessing to open and administer that disgusting site. She also tells me that "they" are thinking about making John and Patsy honorary members of the BOD's for Friends For Jonbenet, Inc, in Ga. Why would parents be just honorary members? Why, if the Ramsey's really want the murder of a child to be made a federal offense by law, are they not out in front leading the pack? I even suggested that the law be retroactive to include all past unsolved cases of murdered children. Why won't the Rameseys take an FBI polygraph test if they believe the murder of a child should be a federal offense? As Steve said on LKL, "who do they want, the border patrol". On LKL the Ramseys argued with Steve that the FBI were never called into the case. Please go to the archives of the Boulder Daily Camera and see how many times the paper writes about the FBI involvment in this case from day one, and in the following years. No one can make me believe that the Ramseys were not following the news in this case closely. Their book tells on them. Ms. Goebel can not explain to my satisfaction as to what she (she is the only board memeber or director listed for the organization) plans to do with the contribution's she is asking for in Jonbenet's name. "So this will not happen again" is not good enough. I want to know what she mean's by "so this will not happen again". I do not go for the idea that the BPD holds all the blame for the screw-up of this investigation. Are they to be blamed for believing parents that call them and report their daughter has been kidnapped, when in fact their child was already laying in their basement brutally murdered? Are they to be blamed for the Ramseys refusing to speak or answer questions regarding what happened the night JonBenet was murdered, the Ramseys waited for 4-months before they agreed to be interviewed. The list of co-operation the Ramseys list in their book ain't working for me, nor do I believe it will work for 12 reasonable jurors. The Ramsey's should know that people are not deaf, dumb and blind as they must think the reader of "DOI" is. I hope that all will stand and be counted here. I hope that all will write Ms. Goebel at the email address at the www.friendsforjonbenet.org site and ask her for the information that the Georgia state's secretaries office tell's us we have a right to before we make a contribution. We have a right to know how much money has been contributed, by whom, and when. We have a right to their financial statement. I have asked for this and get a reply that they are going to hire an accountant, but haven't yet, so they have no financial statement. (not exact words, but the exact meaning of what Suzanne Goebel has expressed to me) We have a right to know where the money will be spent and as to what cause and purpose. An answer "to pay expenses for travel" to get a law passed to make it a federal crime when a child is murdered is not sufficiant. Ms. Goebel informed me that they (did not say who they were) were going to Florida on labor day week-end to meet with a former congressman to see about getting this law past. First of all, she would not tell me the former representative's name, said the representative did not want their name mentioned. "Baloney!!!!" Is this representative ashamed of being associated with any group that has the Ramsey's blessing? I think there is a great hoax being played on unsuspecting people using that www.friendsforjonbenet.org site, and I think that as good citizens it is up to us to follow that trail and expose the guilty parties. I could put up a site tomorrow and say that I was collecting funds in a murdered child's name, and just wonder how many people would guestion that fact? They would send in their hard earned nickles and dimes, just like the hoax being played on some of the Tower victim's families in NY. I urge all to write the secretary of the state of Georgia and file a complaint against this organization if Ms. Goebel cannot be any more forthcoming in answering your questions than she was with me. I urge you all to ask her these questions and to ask her to send the answer to these questions to you in writing via US mail or via e-mail. I hope I do not have to tell all of you how much I grieve that there has been no justice for JonBenet. I know we all do. I believe, and I think I have a constitutional right to state these belief's that the www.friendsforjonbenet.org site was started to make the Ramseys look good in upcoming court cases. I am tired of being played by the Ramsey spin team. It just ain't working for me. It is my opinion that the poster known as Jameson245 has deliberately obstructed justice in this case by sending the BPD to investigate leads that she should have known and may have known were false. Think about all the time that BPD had to spend investigating the misinformation that this person has sent to them. They had to go to NC in the early days of this investigation and question a man in prison as to his where abouts on the night of December 25, 1996, they are presently doing dna on a pair of dirty underwear that did not go through the chain of custody, we only have Jameson's word that they belonged to some pervert. There were many more false leads that Jameson supplied through the years but I am so angry now I cannot remember them. It is my opinion that the subpeonea was issued because the BPD is tired of a bread-baking house wife interferring with the investigation into the murder of an innocent child. I believe that they are preparing a case of obstruction of justice against this person. Maybe, I believe that because I pray that is the case. I hope that I have a right to express my opinion here, and all the above is my opinion. Dunvegan, if you want to delete this post or remove the names, please feel free. I will not be offended. It is my belief that Jameson and Ms. Goebel are public figures and are fair game. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Oh no, don't touch" Posted by Watching you on 12:36:05 9/19/2001 that post - Zapata, you make so much sense in your post, I need more time to digest it. Jameson and that Goebel person most certainly have made public figures of themselves. I can't believe the audacity of these people. I am saving this thread right now so I can savor every word of your post, Zapata. You have especially got my curiosity up about the Jameson245 posters being JAR when Foster identified him as male. Ooohlalala, I must get back to read it over and over and over... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Watching You!!" Posted by zapata on 12:54:01 9/19/2001 What an honor!!! I do not deserve that credit. I gathered this info by reading and searching. Thanks to the Denver Business Journal archiving it's stories. Thanks be to our Lord for making the Ramseys have big mouths, and for their not having the ability to keep them shut. Please read the "Death of Inncence" over and over again. It is so easily to miss much of the real truth if you take their word's at face value. Check the dates of events and many other things that I marked in my mind, but cannot think of now. Watching You, I admire all your post very much, and that is the truth. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "ah, gee, Zapata" Posted by Watching you on 12:57:25 9/19/2001 thanks, but I'm a mere mortal, love. I get meself in trouble sometimes, LOL. I have found many inconsistancies in DOI, and the Ramseys make me furious. You did good. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Watching You" Posted by zapata on 19:23:04 9/19/2001 When you have time would you mind posting the inconsistancies you too have found. I would appreciate everyone doing that. I think that by exposing the lies in DOI and in the crocks and interviews will help to further the cause of justice in this case. I see many words that the spelling needs to be corrected in my other post on this thread, but please forgive me for not doing so. I am tired. I have enjoyed reading all of your post here today. It has been so long since I have taken time to do that, and to post myself. I have truly enjoyed it. Thanks a million. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "Watching You" Posted by zapata on 14:09:41 9/19/2001 John goes on to write on page 141-142 of the paperback version of "DOI" that he had always worried about having enough money, but Patsy's cancer had changed his thinking. Sure it had> After he wrote that he and Patsy had talked or had been thinking about him leaving the company in May of 97, he goes on to write that he could take a year off, go to Australia, see the world, spend time with the family, (not in that order). He also writes in that chapter that now he believed if they lost all their money that he could make it back. No way would a company you work for let you take a year off. John had to have known his days were numbered at Access Graphics before December 25th 1996. "I respect your company, but not the country that it serves." I don't believe he made all that much money, not honest anyway. Look at John's lousy bonus for 95. That is not a good bonus for a billion dollar company. That makes me think that even though Access may have sold a billion dollars in 96, that their loses were great. Did John Ramsey get a bonus for that year? We don't know. I would like to know. I know that being self employed that we do not get a bonus from the companies that we sell for if our losses are great. The more profit we make, the bigger our bounuses. How profitable was Access Graphics? There is one other thing I may post later, but I need to check out this information. It is the reason I believe that John Ramsey was going to be let go by Access Graphics in May of 97. We know that reading between the lines in "DOI" that John Ramsey screwed his fellow owner of the Boulder company. This is how he became CEO, I believe. You just don't go into a meeting to interview prospective CEO's and the former CEO gets dumped and you come out the CEO without screwing that former CEO. Check the edgar documents of Acess GE for the following years. Jim Hudson is still with GE. Why would they fire Patsy's dad when his name was not mentioned but a couple of times in the newapapers after the murder of JonBenet? What was John and Don Paugh up to at Access Graphics? We know by reading John's history in Steve's book that John Ramsey was not an honest employee, he tried to charge off over $5000 for repairs of his porché and his airplane expenses to a former employer. I do not call that an honest person.\ Also, think about John Ramsey leaving Christmas morning and going to the airport. He stayed until right before time to get ready to go to the White's that evening. How angry would any wife be with her husband for doing that? Especially if she had the long list of things to do that day that John listed in "DOI". The neighborhood kids were there, kids running in and out, wanting something to eat, something to drink, you have to stop and do those things for them. We know Patsy did not complete the long list of things she had to do that day that John list in (I think the 1st chapter of "DOI") because the police found half-wrapped Christmas presents. (Patsy had to finish wrapping the gifts for John's older children, Melinda's fiancé, and friends in Charlevoix.) I can imagine how angry I would have been with a piss-ant husband like John Ramsey running off to seek personal pleasure at the airport on Christmas day. Do we know if he really went to the airport that morning, how do we know he wasn't with that blond down the street that Patsy worried about when she had cancer? I think what I am trying to say is that, knowing that your husband's job would be ending in May of 97, just a few short months, (John admits he no longer held any stock in Access Graphics that Lockheed purchased the remaining 75% of stock in the company in 1991) he had only worked for Access Graphics for 5-years, so how much retirement could he have built up? Not enough to keep up their life style. Not by a long shot. I had it figured out at one time approximately what John Ramsey was making with Access Graphics,(based on other company CEO's, amount of business tthey did for a year) and it sure was not enough to support their life style they were already living. Look at the house in Charlevoix, I am sure there were monthly payments, look at the remodeling done on that house in Charlevoix, another note probably, then look at the house in Boulder, and the expense of that remodeling job. Look at the expense of the two airplanes John had at the time, and the remodeling job he had done on the C-90. (John loves to brag in DOI). Look at having one child in college, one that just graduated college, and two at home that your wife spent so much money on for pageants and other things. Then ask yourself, if you had to fly to Maryland with cancer by yourself for treatments, your husband owned an airplane, could easily have flown you so you would not have to worry about if the seat next to you would be empty so you could lay down on your way home from Maryland after receiving these treatments, wouldn't you resent it? Think of these pressures all bulding up from the time you first find out you have cancer until Christmas night 1996, when once again, when you were at your busiest, needed help from your husbend because he was insisting on going to Michigan the next morning, then coming back to Boulder before flying off to Florida to take the Big Red Disney Boat trip, trips you really couldn't afford since your husband was going to be without a job in a few short months. Then think of how your husband's business was failing when he first started it in your basement, you have to call your dad for a loan, then your dad joins your husband in making the business a success, (why do I think that Don Paugh let John have the credit for what I believe was his hard work. Was it because he loved his daughter?) Then in the end your husband goes and loses the company. Feel the pressure building? I do. Their whole book reeks of it. Back to what I am trying to say. I think that finding out your husband would not have a job in May of 97, coupled with all the other presures that go along with Christmas, especially a Patsy Ramsey Christmas, parties, parties, the perfect hostess we must be. Shop til you drop, then wrap all those presents, pack for the Charlevoix house, (even if you have a whole houseful of clothes in Chalevoix, they would be summer clothes, so what good are they going to do you in winter?, pack for the Disney Big Red Boat trip, (this is in one day, Christmas day, take care of two kids, plus a few neighbor kids, remembering all the time your husband is off having fun, shrugging his responsibility, get costumes ready for the upcoming local Miss Hawaii Tropic Pageant, (John writes about all these things Patsy had to do that day, I am not making it up) then know that you are going to have to go to friends that evening and stay until 9:00 then deliver gifts to three couples, even though you don't make it but to two couple's house. I am betting that Patsy had hoped to deliver those fruit baskets to the Stines, the Hearns, and Walkers before they went to the White's that evening, but John-boy did not make it home from the airport in time. Imagine having to smile all evening when you are so tired that you just want to go to bed and go to sleep, but you still have so many things to do when you return home. Imagine your nerve's being stretched to their very end. Then imagine your child waking up and has either messed the bed, or peed. I am betting that JonBenet had a bowel movement that night. Imagine that rubber band of a nerve breaking. Imagine one person's world going crazy that night. Not the whole world going mad, but just one person. Then read the ransom note. See how angry the writer is with John Ramsey? I read it as if it say's, "you made me kill our daughte now it is up to you John!" Victory (over cancer) STBC (Saved by the chemo), you piece of shit, without your help. I believe when you look at it this way it is so easy to see why a man would cover-up for his wife when he know's she murdered their child. GUILT!!!! She made him feel it was his fault that she lost it, killed their daughter. She made him feel he got what he deserved for all of his selfish ways. He was never there when she needed him. Don't get me wrong. I believe Patsy Ramsey is a cold blooded murderer. I am not trying to make light of, or excuse what she did to JonBenet. The closest medical facility was just 5 short minutes away. She did not call 911 when she lost it. She then made a left turn, as Steve Thomas wrote, and she committed, cold blooded murder. I believe this with all my heart and I believe that 12 reasonable jurors will too. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Watching You" Posted by zapata on 13:21:31 9/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:21:31, 9/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:52:52, 9/19/2001 I thought I would use this wasted post to add this info for Ms. Goebel's other corporation. Note that Woodstock is also where Jeff Ramsey lives. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GLOBAL MARKETPLACE MINISTRIES INC. Corporate Officers Title Name Address CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER SUZANNE GOEBEL 315 HOSESHOE BEND WOODSTOCK, GEORGIA 30189 CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER SUZANNE GOEBEL 315 HORSESHOE BEND WOODSTOCK, GEORGIA 30189 SECRETARY SUZANNE GOEBEL 315 HORSESHOE BEND WOODSTOCK, GEORGIA 30189 [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Watching You" Posted by zapata on 14:55:21 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 14:55:21, 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:47:37, 9/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:44:42, 9/20/2001 John writes more on his leaving Access Graphics on page 235 of "DOI" paperback edition. He tells us of the heartless big corporation's actions. He and Don Paugh were the only two empoyees of Access Graphics that GE did not keep. He and Don Paugh got a severance package from Lockheed. (Is that violins I hear? Never mind, it was fiddles.) What is the usual on a severance package? One months salary? I began to think of this again last night. When John left Access Graphics at the time that GE purchased the company, (remember that Lockheed, Ge and Access, as well as Sun Microsystems all have the same parent company, Lehman Capital) just how devastating this action was. John has not reached retirement age, neither has Patsy. That means they are neither one eligible for SS benefits. John probably drew unemployment for a while. This also meant that John and Patsy could not get hospitalization due to Patsy's pre-existing condition. They might get hospitalization insurance, but all things to do with the cancer would be excluded from the coverage. John would have been eligible to keep his company insurance with Access Graphics for 18 months, but he would have had to pay dearly for the coverage. The premiums would have been very expensive. When he was an employee the company was probably paying anywhere from 75% to 100% of the premium, once his employment ended then John would have had to pay that premium out of his pocket, or let it cancel. Then John and a partner in Spain start Jaleo North America. I have not found the date yet, but would apppreciate anyone posting it if they know. In April of 99 John announces that he is leaving Jaleo to work full time on the investigation along with a crack team of VOLUNTEER PI's. Then his partner in Spain announced that John's original investment in Jaleo was still with the company. I believe that John did not put up a dime to become a partner in Jaleo. I believe he used smoke and mirrors to get his foot in the door at Jaleo. I believe that the Ramseys were using smoke and mirrors as to their finances for a long time. I remember reading in Steve's book about a financial statement of John's. I think his net worth was 1,118,000. and his liabilities were the same. When the Ramseys expain they have taken television out of their home, (page 243 paperback edition of "DOI") Patsy claims that the cable company called to say they had not paid their cable bill on time that month, and they were going to send someone out to pick up the money and disconnect the cable if the payment was not made by the next day. Patsy claims this was a blessing that John had tried for two months to get a human to answer the phone at the cable company so they could get their cable disconnected. That when you call to have it connected that it is easy to get through to the cable company, but not when you want to disconnect. I think this is baloney. If anyone that lives in Atlanta area can call the cable company and see how fast it takes you to get through to a live person in the disconnection department I would be appreciate it. In one of their interviews in their book tour they talk about having televison removed from their home, but I am almost positive that John explained that they owed $60 something dollars, but Patsy say's they owed $40.00. I know this is a little lie, but a lie is a lie. Which is it? If I forget to pay my cable bill this month, I know my cable company will not cut me off. They will just add the bill to next month's billing, and then if I don't pay it they would probably cut me off. I do not think a cable company would cut you off if you "do not pay your bill on time". I could be wrong. I hope someone that lives in that area can check on that also. I think the point I am trying to make is my belief that John and Patsy were not the best at paying bills on time. Look at how long they lived with the Stines. Why? Didn't Don Paugh have an apartment in Boulder they could have used? Couldn't they have rented a house or apartment if they did not want to go back to the "hell hole"? As my aunt use to say, "she liked these comers and goers, but damn these comers and stayers". When does long time guest start smelling like fish? Why were they afraid to be alone together? With all of John's money he could have easily have afforded body guards? Not! Was this an act of getting back to normalacy as they claim they wanted to do as early as January 01, 1997? I say all of this because I believe that the Ramsey wealth was smoke and mirrors. The Ramseys promoted this idea in all they did. Why have they not paid their criminal attorneys, and is that the real reason that Ellis Armistead quit the case, for non-payment? edited to add the word that and month instead of months. edited to add the n to normalacy edited to change the assets to 1 million 18,000 or is it 1 million 118,000. I can't remember. I know it certainly was not 118 million. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Thanks, zapata..." Posted by LurkerXIV on 13:57:42 9/19/2001 ....for exposing all their lies....those @%%*&&$ Ramseys! And that Suzanne Goebel....she is some piece of work... with her phoney organization. I'm glad someone has the chutzpah to call her up and question her about her bogus "mission". Kudos to you, kid! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Lurker" Posted by zapata on 14:34:17 9/19/2001 She finally wrote me and said that they had met their goal, and would not be needing my donation. LOL Then why in the hell is that site still up, why are they asking for donations and selling a books that the profits are already promised to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation. When Linda McLean released her book, "JonBenet's Mother", in 1998 she announced that all profit's from that book would go into the foundation, and she also stated that she did not have to pay for the book to be published. Where is that money that should have gone into the foundation? Where is the profit from DOI that was promised to the foundation? How are these two books now being legally sold so the friendsforjonbenet.org can profit? Where is the $100,000 reward that the Ramsey's should have set aside in a account to hold in trust in case a clue came in that lead to the trial and conviction of the murderer of JonBenet? I just don't know why the fed's have not jumped on the Ramsey's case due to the activities or lack of activities in handling the affairs of a charitable foundation such as the JonBenet Ramsey Children's foundatiton. Doues the government never audit these organizations? Let me go back to something I wanted to say on the Sun Microsystems subject. In 1990 Access Graphics was going under. In order to get the Sun Microsystem's contract and stay afloat Access Graphics borrows 15-million from Lockheed who already owned 25% of the company. John does not say so in DOI, but it stands to reason that Access Graphics had to put the balance (75%) of their remaining stock up for collateral for this loan. Later John writes in the same chapter "Back To Work", that Lockheed had purchased the remaining 75% of Access Graphics' stock in 91. Okay, let's say this the way it should have been said, or the way I believe it happened. Access Graphic's then default's on the 15-million dollar loan and then Lockheed forcloses thus taking the remaining 75% share of the stock. Wallah, John is no longer an owner, but and employee. I believe that is also when John Ramsey became CEO of Access and Jim Hudson was demoted. Let me see if I can find the link about Sun Microsystems announcement that they are going to build a plant and hire 3500 employees in the Denver area. Compare that to the 600 employee's that Access Graphics had worldwide, and ask yourself how long Access could have survived without a product to sell. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Let me see...can I work up sympathy for the..." Posted by Dunvegan on 15:02:39 9/19/2001 ...person that threatened both myself and Justice Watch with legal action just before this "Jazzy" story broke...the self same who copied that Wood-for-brains lawyer in a legal threat? Uh...I'll get back to you all on that later... ...right after I get over the rictus this grin is giving me.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Lurker" Posted by zapata on 15:02:37 9/19/2001 Here is the url to the Sun Microsystems article that is dated October 25, 1996. Two months before JonBenet was murdered. (like you did not know that) http://denver.bcentral.com/denver/stories/1996/10/28/story2.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Zapata" Posted by Watching you on 15:08:28 9/19/2001 you have done some fine research here. I am really impressed. Dun, 2 + 2 = 4. Got it. Dang her hide. You know, something is really mucked up about this foundation. Perhaps it is time to lower the boom on Miss Threathead, since she is so reluctant to provide pertinent information to potential donors that by law they are entitled to. Sorry, Gem, I just have to SNORT. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Watching You" Posted by zapata on 15:26:30 9/19/2001 I feel sure Ms. Goebel reads here. She changed the site after this board, or was it Cybersleuths that made so much fun of it. I would never send angels to hang over the grave of JonBenet. The angels were Patsy's idea, and she expressed that idea to Jameson the first time they met. Patsy Ramsey wants to make JonBenet's grave a show place. How I wish I could do something for JonBenet, like be there at her grave site the day the murderer is found guilty. I will not send angels though, no, I will not help Patsy Ramsey put Jonbenet on display in death as she did in life. I missed the threat of a lawsuit against this forum. Can you tell me where to find that thread? Thanks in advance. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Zapata" Posted by Watching you on 15:29:27 9/19/2001 That is Dunvegan's territory, the lawsuit threat, I mean. There was no thread about it that I am aware of, but Dun told us there had been a threat made when she first took over. Looks as if things might be coming full circle, but I'm just putting 2 and 2 together. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Yeah, right, Jameson" Posted by Watching you on 15:43:48 9/19/2001 If two skyscrapers in NYC are hit by terrorists in hijacked commercial airplanes and thousands of people are killed, and you can still think about nothing but stealing posts from other forums and saying, "I'm credible, deal with it," you just might be obsessed. Deal with it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "I'm afraid my legal counsel advises me to..." Posted by Dunvegan on 15:54:03 9/19/2001 ...refrain from speaking in particulars regarding the threat of legal action from, shall we say, the webmistress of a certain talk-swamp. There was both snide and threatening language that went beyond a simple legal statement...along with a legal threat, and it was copied to a certain Atlanta lawyer, and an anti-stalking organization. Which makes it a "publication"...libel depends on publication...and a one-to-one e-mail isn't publication...even a three-way e-mail that includes a lawyer is probably not libel...but, that extra party being copied puts it all squarely in the libel catagory. Needless to say, I did not answer this person, but consulted legal counsel immediately. That's about all I can say at the present time. This happened three days after I took over the forum...and had to do with the possibility of certain photographs being posted to this forum. Now...please don't ask me anything else...I'm following this through the correct legal methodology. But, I would like to say here that I deeply appreciate everyone's continuing support of the Justice Watch forum. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "Dunvegan and Watching You" Posted by zapata on 18:54:20 9/19/2001 Thanks for the explainations. I understand and don't blame you for not speaking of the incident of a certain forum swamp queen. I have always felt the swamp queen would go too far. Remember the little housekeeper's daughter. The swamp queen could care less for children in my opinion, and I would not leave a dog with her for one second. She is not known for her honestly, nor for having a kind and caring heart. If you need any help please let us know. We will be there. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "zapata and acr" Posted by starry on 16:07:02 9/19/2001 Much thanks to both of you for contributing such fascinating reading. zap, you've got the Scamsey's and Goebel nailed. acr, I beleive you're making Ruthie say, "go get hir"........ Clapping and stomping her feet, so if you hear thunder soon..... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Starry" Posted by zapata on 19:31:26 9/19/2001 I bet that is Ruthee I am hearing here and not thunder. LOL I sure hope she is watching and listening. I can't imagine Ruthee not paying attention. She did some great work on this case. I truly miss her. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Zapata...you are amazing!" Posted by Show Me on 17:01:07 9/19/2001 Your posts make a lot of sense, backed by the Ramsey's own words. Thank you. Dun, I understand your relutance to talk NOW about this legal thingee....maybe when certain trials, etc...are resolved you can tell us later? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Zapata and BJ...go get 'em..." Posted by Dunvegan on 16:38:52 9/19/2001 ...you have my complete and "infinite" support, and the support of the Justice Watch forum. There's more than one legal action rising up and staring the Ramseys and their shills in the face...and they owe it all to themselves. I can tell you that for certain. As you may well guess, I am completely on this team...and will support your efforts in any way I can. And I defy the Ramseys or their "Patsies" to contact myself or my lawyers again...in other words: bring it. Meanwhile...I'm ALL for turning up the heat on the lot of them to the highest levels possible. NOW. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Dunvegan, Starry & Show me" Posted by zapata on 19:17:37 9/19/2001 Thanks for your kind words and support. It is greatly appreciated. I have a few more things, but need to brush up one them, but will try to post them later. I hope the Ramseys are ready to be exposed in a court of law. Just think what a professional investigator can find if a lowly poster like me found this? I think they will regret the day they filed a suit against Steve Thomas and libeled the Pugh's and Wolf. Never fear, Daniel Petrocelli will have very good investigators that will know where the keys are that will open the way to the truth. I am proud of Darnay too. I truly believe that he has a good heart and he cares when he see's the injustice that was done to people like the Pughs and Wolf. I do not believe Darnay is in this for publicity, I believe it is because he seeks justice both for his clients and for JonBenet. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Show Me: When the legal resolution has taken course..." Posted by Dunvegan on 17:06:17 9/19/2001 ...just TRY and shut me up! I'll be more than happy to roll out the entire story at the appropriate time. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "Great Zap ..." Posted by Mandarin on 19:33:51 9/19/2001 Zapata ... thanks for some excellent posts and might I add, that you've capture completely what I've been posting all along, i.e. the sequence of events and what lead up to Patsy's explosive rage. I especially like all the insight you have provided into Access Graphics, Granpaugh's financial assistance, etc. I've said all along this is, was and always will be a "family affair". As our pal Steve would say, They're still good for it". You've peaked my interest in that boring piece of b.s. namely, DOI and since I more or less, only skimmed through it - I will, next week, attempt to reread it in it's entirety. But I gotta tell ya, it's really hard to read that book without rolfing. Again, excellent posts and a lot of hard work there. Keep on posting zapata. Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "Mandarin" Posted by zapata on 10:39:01 9/20/2001 I believe their own words will be their undoing. I have to read them over and over again before they hit this dull brain and a light turns on. The 1998 crock has some revealing statements by John. I think I posted that info at Cybersleuths a few months back. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "What a lovely thread!" Posted by LurkerXIV on 20:47:55 9/19/2001 It does this old heart good to see three excellent JBR website owners put their heads together and cooperate to bring down the Scamseys, the Swamp Queen, and the phoney-baloney Foundation Guru. This is as good as it gets! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Lurker" Posted by RiverRat on 06:23:18 9/20/2001 You took the words right out of my mouth. How PROUD I was to watch this thread unite the very ones that never should have stood to the side. Bravo to all! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Foster and Jameson" Posted by Jeanilou on 21:15:53 9/19/2001 Zapata: I read your posts with great interest and I think you have told the tale the way it should be told. And the reason I say that is that you not only told it like it is but you got hir's attention also. I feel and understand your anger with Jameson. I feel pretty much the same. It is amazing how always just manages to scurry around a dangerous situation. If what Candy Rose has laid out here is true and Jameson only substituteed the name "jamesonposter" for the real hat of the poster, then she was tampering with evidence. For what Gsquared said from her convo with Jana, I am inclined to believe Jameson and jamesonposter is one and the same. At any rate, she eithered tampered with evidence or out and out lied. I also agree with Zapata about Foster. I do think that Jameson set out to deliberately fool Foster and she used emails from JAR to do it. I think Foster is right when he says a young 20ish man wrote those emails. I just wish I knew how to prove it. Jeanilou, the Internet Sleuth Opinions are a dime a dozen and this is just one of mine! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Jeanilou ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Jeanilou" Posted by zapata on 11:04:56 9/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:04:56, 9/20/2001 I think Jameson posted on the Mark Beckner thread at hir place that she was posting as, or Ims'ing as jamesonposter to protect someone else on-line, and I took this statement to mean that someone else on-line was using the Jameson245 hat or screen name of Ims. edited to add info to the post. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Z....." Posted by rose on 22:06:38 9/19/2001 Would it be possible for you to post the letter that was sent to you by the JonBenet childrens foundation? Did they really say your donation was not needed that they had all the donations they needed? If so, why do they still have the web sight up asking for donations and selling DOI book for funds? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Rose" Posted by zapata on 09:54:23 9/20/2001 I will post several I received. Below is not the first email I received from SuzGoebel@ the same provider that is included in this thread. She has a site that tells you of all her experience. Just go to www.dogpile.com and type in the search engine SuzGoebel@* and hit find. Her page and the school she attended to become a personal life coach should come up. She has her email address at both these sites. I will remove the above if need be. Start email from Ms. Goebel: (Ms. Goebel explains why they have to use the Friends For JonBenet organization rather than the JonBenet Foundation: start correspondence from Goebel And thanks for your interest--the foundation was formed the year after JonBenet's murder (I think) and was formed as a private foundation, which means from a legal standpoint there is not as much freedom to do what we want to do and it also means that funds cannot be overtly solicited from individuals..they can be solicited as memorials, etc but such things as direct mail, etc . cannot be done under a private foundation. Friends For JonBenet has been formed as a public, non-profit 501c3 organization , a different legal structure , which allows us to do these things. Thanks for your explanation, too. I hope that you will find us a worthy cause to make your contribution to--when you receive the letter , there is a return card to send in with your donation. Blessings for a great day. Suzanne end correspondence. The return card listed the amount of donation they were requesting, but gave you a blank space so you could write in the amount. If I am remembering correctly the amount went from $50.00 up to $10,000. The return address label has a picture of Jonbenet on it. I cannot scan this info. I gave my scanner to my son-in-law. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "Rose" Posted by zapata on 09:57:00 9/20/2001 Here is another one in answer to my question if the organization had the Ramseys' blessings: Start: Thanks--yes it definitely has their blessings and I could get you a letter to that effect if it would be helpful. It was organized by their friends and they are aware of everything we are doing and give input to us. Blessings to you, Suzanne PS I mailed the fundraising letter indicating the need and use for the money to the PO address you gave me. end......... The use was "so this would never happen again" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Rose" Posted by zapata on 10:34:16 9/20/2001 I believe my suggestion was to ask them if they had even gotten a congressman to work on the resolution, to to suggest that the law be retroactive to include all unsolved murders of children. start.............. PS - I am getting a letter from them stating their blessings-will see John Monday and get it. and thanks for your suggestions, too. Suzanne .............. end start another message..........In answer to my question as to what happened to: It was/is The JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation--and it is still in existence but we are doing most of this work under Friends for JonBenet. What information would you like about the foundation?? Thanks ............end In answer to my question as to why you called the number listed on the www.friendsforjonbenet.org site the operator answered Tele Access North America............. I've got the scoop on the Tele-Access thing--I checked with the receptionist thinking maybe the business center used Tele-access as our phone service-not the case..but there is another tenant in the business center by that name--their number is close to the Friends number- Friends number is 678/385-5982. The tele-access number is 678/385-5942--so if the Friends number is misdialed the person would get this tele-access thing. I tried the Friends number and it went right to my voice mail--you could try it tomorrow if you want to and let me know. Hope this clears it up. Thanks, Suzanne ..........end I know this is not true. I dialed the number listed at the www.friendsforjonbenet.org site numerous times, and so did a sweet and kind fellow poster at Cybersleuths. We both got the same message. start.......... ____,the company is Tele Atlas North America--not Tele Access--which accounts for why you have not been able to find out anything about it- don't know who the owner is but now that we have the correct name, perhaps you can locate the corp records. Thanks, Suzanne ........end.......... I had to call the number many times in order to try to understand what the recording was saying. Like the name of the company. First I thought it said, Kelly Access. I think the following was the second email I received and is in answer to my question if she was associated with the FFJ organization I emailed the address listed at the site which is info@friendsforjonbenet.org, but the answer came from the one I listed on an earlier post..............start Thanks, yes I am connected to Friends For JonBenet. And thought I answered your email earlier but must have gotten lost in cyberspace.send me a snail mail address and I will get you a copy of the letter we sent out explaining what the funds are for. Mainly to help impact change around the protection of children and related issues. It is non-profit, just started in June. will be glad to let you know how monies have been spent so far--we had a very low start up budget ($4000) which has mostly been used for office rent, supplies, computers and the beginning website, which as you can see needs a lot of work yet. we need to continue the start up as well ad do some traveling to meet with people who share the same concerns. Among other things we want to make the murder of a child a federal offense just like a bank robbery is. Hope this helps. Suzanne ..........end..................... The below is in response to a hot email I sent: start..................... Glad to answer your questions and show you anything you want to see. Friends For JonBenet was just formed this past June. It is a different foundation from the JonBenet Ramsey Childrens Foundation, and I think that one must be the one that involved the 'shoes' project but am not sure -- will find out tho. I do know that FFJB will not be paying Private Investigators tho. Only the profits for Linda McClean's book sold over the FFJB website will help fund FFJB--all the rest, bookstores, etc go to the Foundation (by the way, the reason we had to form a separate organization is that the JonBenet Ramsey Childrens Foundation is formed as a private foundation, while FFJB is a non-profit corporation--ie from a legal structure viewpoint. This means FFJB can do some of the things outlined with regard to the impact on the justice and legal systems for children). We plan to support adequate funding of a DNA database verbally in order to get federal funding--and we are in the processs of contacting some congressmen about support for legislation to make the murder of a child a Federal offense. The DNA database will take congressional support too. We are not planning to control the media's reporting of a murder case-sorry if that impression was inadvertently conveyed. We just want to work on the 'entertainment' aspect. Again you have the right to see any information--since we just started in June, we have only start up funds of about $5000 which have been used for supplies, computer equipment, and office rent mainly. We have a CPA who will start soon and get official reports for us tho. The boards are wrong about my being Patsy's personal life coach--someone got this when they called my voice mail which says that I am a personal life coach --which I am and which is my business enterprise along with consulting-- but I am not Patsy's coach--never have been--she has never paid me for anything. I will see John today or tomorrow--I have the letter stating he and Patsy know about this but need signatures before I send it to you. Hope this helps. Thanks PS we have had 5 contributors so far--I will get you their names when I go to the office. .................end................... She never did send me a list of contributors. Below is the email Ms. Goebel tells me they will not be needing my donation......... Start........................ Here is an attempt to answer your questions. I have put the answers under the questions in all caps to stand out. hope this helps. Thanks for your interest. !. Why are you the only officer and director listed for the Friends For JonBenet Organization when it is suppose to be made up of "friends" which implies more than one person? THERE IS ONE MORE OFFICER, DONNA HATTERICK. WE ARE PLANNING TO ADD MORE AND HAVE A LIST OF ABOUT 10 NAMES..THERE IS SOME LIMIT ON THE NUMBER OF DIRECTORS IN GEORGIA BUT I THINK 10-12 WILL WORK. WE FORMED IT WITH THE 2 REQUIRED TO OPEN A CORP WITH THE UNDERSTANDING MORE WOULD BE ADDED -- WE PLAN TO DO THIS IN THE NEXT MONTH OR SO. 2. If John and Patsy Ramsey back this organization why are they not actively participating in the organizations work? I do not understand verbal backing, I understand physical actions and deeds. THEY ARE INVOLVED IN OUR MEETINGS AND WE ARE GOING TO PUT THEIR NAME ON OUR NEW LETTERHEAD AS HONORARY BOARD MEMBERS. WE TALK TO THEM DAILY ABOUT WHAT WE ARE DOING SO THEY KNOW AND APPROVE OF EVERYTHING 3. You assure me that your organization will verbally back a law making the murder of a child a federal offense. Why not back it financially? Your site at http://www.friendsforjonbenet.org/ gives as a reason for selling the books "JonBenet's Mother, by Linda McLean and "Death of Innocence" by John and Patsy Ramsey and asking for donation's so this will never happen again. I don't understand what you mean when you say "So this will never happen again"? What do you mean by "so this will never happen again?" So what will never happen again? Please explain what this means. SO THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN IS THAT THE MURDER OF A CHILD WHICH GOES UNSOLVED FOR THIS LONG BECAUSE IT IS NOT A FEDERAL OFFENCE AND THEREFORE DOES NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES OF THE FEDERAL GOVT TO HELP SOLVE IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN 4. You say you have only collected around $5,000 for your organization but you do not go into detail as to where the funds came from. I need names, and amounts of contributors. I need a break-down of office expense, of the cost of the computer and office equipment. I in good conscience need this info to assure myself that any funds we may donate to your organization will go to the well being of children. WE HAVE JUST ENGAGED A CPA WHO IS PUTTING ALL THE LEGAL REPORTS TOGETHER --HOWEVER WE ARE ENCOURAGED TO REPORT THAT OUR FINANCIAL NEEDS HAVE BEEN MET SO YOU WOULD NOT NEED TO SEND US A DONATION. THANKS FOR BEING WILLING THOUGH. 5. I need to know what happened to the computer that was purchased at a cost of almost $5,000 by the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation. What happened to that computer? Why does the foundation look stagnant? No monies coming in nor going out. THE COMPUTER PURCHASED FOR THE FOUNDATION IS STILL BEING USED BY THE FOUNDATION AS FAR AS I KNOW. I DON'T KNOW WHY IT LOOKS STAGNANT--WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT. ONE DIFFERENCE IN THE FOUNDATION IS THAT IT WAS FORMED AS A TRUST NOT A NONPROFIT CORPORATION. THERE ARE DIFFERENT LEGAL IMPLICATIONS ABOUT FUNDRASING FOR A TRUST SO THAT IS WHY MONIES DO NOT COME IN ROUTINELY VIA STANDARD FUNDRAISING APPROACHES 6. How can Linda McLean announce in 1998 that all profit from her book "JonBenet's Mother" will go into the foundation, and then change that fact by allowing her book to be sold at your site the friendsforjonbenet.org ? Ms. McLean also annocunced that she did not pay to have the book published, so this means that every copy that was sold was a profit to Ms. McLean, and I do not see where any funds from the sale of that book went into the foundation. Please correct me if I am wrong. The last I checked there had been 14,000 copies of Linda McLean's book sold. Where are the funds for the sale of this book, what use are they going to? Why did the book sale for $6.95 each when it was published and is selling for $20.00 a copy at your site? AM NOT SURE ABOUT THE 14000 BUT I DO KNOW THAT ONLY THE COPIES SOLD ON THE SITE ARE ATTRIBUTED TO FRIENDS-OF WHICH TO DATE THERE HAVE BEEN 0 SOLD ON THE SITE - THE $20 COST INCLUDES A DONATION WHICH WE ARE CLARIFYING AS WE PUT UP THE NEW ORDER PAGES. HOWEVER WE MAY TAKE THIS OFF ALTOGETHER AS THERE ARE OTHER BOOKS. 7. I need to know what action has been taken so far on behalf of the Friends for JonBenet organization in getting a law enacted to make it a federal crime when a child is murdered. Please send me this information as soon as possible as my Oct. 15th deadline is fast approaching. WE HAVE REQUESTED MEETINGS WITH LEGISLATORS AND ARE MEETING LABOR DAY WITH A FORMER LEGISLATOR FROM FLORIDA WHO IS HELPING US FRAME THE CAMPAIGN FOR THE LAW. WHAT IS THE OCT 15 DEADLINE FOR?? Thank you for your consideration. THANK YOU, ___. HOPE THIS CLEARS IT UP FOR YOU., SUZANNE.............. .......................end.............. my name has been removed to cover my a$$. Legislator wants to remain anonymous.......... start........... Good points, _____, and well taken. The former legislator from Florida does not want his name released so I am not free to give it. And you have some great ideas which I will bring up at our next meeting. Thanks for your good questions and input. Blessings to you,Suzanne ...............end.............. All the emails I have posted here were received in June and July of 2001. I think the above email, but could be wrong, is where I told her I had seen a documentary on the Discover channel and that the FBI has already started a DNA data base. This is true. I urge everyone to continue to research this organization. It sounds so much like what has been done with the JonBenet Children's foundation. The last documents I can find for the foundation are the tax returns for 1999. They list a $2.000 donation to the church in Boulder to use for children's purposes. Now, if you can, go to page 92 of Linda McLean's book, "JonBenet's Mother", read Pammy's letter about the children's memorial that was set up for Beth at that same church. I am wondering if the $2,000 from the JonBenet foundation went to cover the upkeep of Beth's memorial? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Hi Jeanilou!" Posted by Thor on 21:31:51 9/19/2001 Good to see you here! I wish you could find the proof too. I don't know enough about this stuff, I'm a relative newbie. Great to see you posting! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "Jeanilou" Posted by zapata on 15:45:04 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:45:04, 9/26/2001 Sheesh. I am so stupid. I think I missed the whole point here. I believe the following taken from one of the above emails from Suzanne Goebel is the whole reason for the FFJ organization: "We plan to support adequate funding of a DNA database verbally in order to get federal funding" ........................................ Underline FEDERAL FUNDING. That is exactly what that organization is about. FEDERAL FUNDING is almost like free money. I have seen it happen time after time. Like when our government ruled that ATT had a monopoly on the telephone service, they busted up the company. The crooks loved it. They immediately purchased long distance service from AT&T, then they resold the service. In about 1935 or so our government ruled that if you have an electic or telephone company you could get government loan's at a very small interest rate. This was done to provide service to rural areas. We do not need government enactment any longer. So the crooks jumped on this and set up company after company. Like Acacia Telecom and Communication. They would then get a government loan for say $600,000 to purchase a switch station. The catch was they never purchased the switch station. They would either rent the long distance service and resale it, or rent the equipment and move out during the night, sticking companies like AT&T, MCI and US Sprint with the bill. The company would then declare bankruptcy and the little tax payer was stuck with the bill. I believe with all my heart this is what the FFJ organization is up to. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "Friends for JonBenet, Inc" Posted by Moab on 22:57:26 9/19/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:57:26, 9/19/2001 Deborah Ferguson, Director of Charitable Organizations for the Secretary of State of Georgia (DFerguson@sos.state.ga.us) sent someone I know who inquired about "Friends for JonBenet" this response on Tuesday, August 14, 2001: In response to your email regarding "Friends for JonBenet", I have searched our web site for registered charities and do not find the organization registered. Charities which are registered with the Secretary of State's office can be searched at the following site: http://www.sos.state.ga.us/securities/charitysearch.htm If you need further assistance in this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me through email or you may call our office at (404) 656-3920. I went to this site and could not find anything under various forms of Friends for JonBenet, Inc. Can a charity be incorporated? I'm not a business person per se, but I thought incorporating a business was for tax breaks and insurance security against the partners/owners of a business getting sued for their personal assets. I'm sure there are other reasons, but those are the ones I know about. My point is that if they are getting tax breaks because of being incorporated, then they're not non-profit, which is the whole purpose of registering as a charity, isn't it? No taxes. But don't jump on my questions as proof of anything. I really don't know business. One more thing to consider. If I remember correctly, there were some Texas connections looked at long ago to the JonBenet Foundation, weren't there? I can't remember this too well, but I may have some of that information around. Was it one of those pageant men that knew Patsy who was a registered agent of some sort in Texas for them? Don't bet the farm, here, because it has been a long time since all this was discussed. I believe it was in summer of 2000 here, an eon ago in forum time. I am only mentioning it now as it seems possible that this latest "charity" could be registered in another state, couldn't it? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "Moab" Posted by zapata on 11:33:46 9/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 11:33:46, 9/20/2001 Great work!!!. I don't know the legal answer as to if a charity can be incorporated, but do know that both the JonBenet Ramsey's Children's Foundation and Friends for JonBenet, Inc. have been incorporated. The first in Colorado and the second in Georgia. I am thinking that someone at Cybersleuths posted that the Ramsey's changed the foundation in some manner in late 1999. If I am wrong, someone please correct me. I think that is when they took the foundation Private, and the reason we have not seen any IRS filings for the foundation since the 99 filing. I assume it is legal to for a charitable foundation or organization to incorporate since I know that the foundation was incorporated with the help of Michael Bynum in April of 97. All ad's the Ramsey's ran in the paper, the 1,000 letter's they mailed out were paid for by the foundation. Denver did a lot of research on the foundation and posted a lot of it at the about.com site a year or so ago. She did some great work and even broke down the meaning of the state codes for charitable organizations. I hope she will come here and repost that research. Tele Atlas, I can not find this company incorporated in the state of Georgia. also, Moab. About the Texas connection. The www.ramseyfamily.com site is paid by an AJMueller. I ran his name though different telephone directories and finally found one listed in Ga. I actually found an Anthony J. Mueller. When I ran his name under directors and registered agents at the corporation site at Black Book online, I found that he was a registered agent for the Miss America Enterprises that had become inactive in Ga, then the organization moved to texas. Another poster did find an AJ Mueller in Littleton I think. I think that was just a false lead, the Miss America Enterprises. I just don't know, but did find a homepage for AJ or Anthony Mueller, I cannot remember which, but it did not seem important. I would like to find out why the Ramseys went to Texas in the summer of 95. Judith Phillips stated in one of her chats that Patsy changed during that summer, came back wearing big diamonds, more materialistic, or what I understood she meant by her statement. I would love to know where they went and what they did, who they know in Texas. That is bugging me to death. I beleive the charity has to be listed with the state it is domicilled and doing business in. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "I wonder" Posted by zapata on 17:52:29 9/21/2001 If the Jason Mueller that Jameson and group are talking about is related to the AJMueller that the billing for the www.ramseyfamily.com site is sent to? The post are on a thread that was the public forum. It was on a tread that I read yesterday where DIWI posted she/he had had enough. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "IMO" Posted by starry on 03:43:45 9/20/2001 Hir both lied and tampered with evidence. I doubt hir'll look any better in stripes than Patsy will. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Dunvegan-Zapata-Moab" Posted by Jerrya on 06:11:32 9/20/2001 You may find the information about nonprofit organizations from Susan Andres, she is the Director of Information Services at the Grantsmanship Center Magazine. She can be reached at: 213 482-9860 * FAX 213 482-986 * www.tgci.com I would use my dime if I were not battling cancer. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Jerrya" Posted by zapata on 11:02:26 9/20/2001 I too am praying for you. Thank you for the info. I will go and try to check it out. Will let you know what I find. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Thank you so much, jerrya" Posted by Dunvegan on 06:44:18 9/20/2001 for the information. I'm praying for you...and that you defete the cancer. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "Jameson at work?" Posted by Jeanilou on 09:21:37 9/20/2001 Could it be that Jameson made Suzanne Goebel aware of who you are Zapata, and that is why she does not want you to donate? Or could it be so she, Suzanne does not have to give you the accounting you are entitled to IF you become a contributor. I, for one, am with Zapata. I think we should all write and ask for an accounting of this charity. So where do I write to? Anyone have the email for this charity? Or is it done by snail mail. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Jeanilou" Posted by zapata on 15:53:20 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:53:20, 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:50:00, 9/26/2001 My email has zapata on the front so if Goebel reads the boards she knew who she was dealing with. I would not put anything past Jameson. When Goebel opened the FFJB site, Jameson announced it on hir board. She wanted it to be made clear that she had nothing to do with that organization. I thought it sounded like the green eyed monster of jealousy posting. Goebel took hir Patsy. Note also, that in one of the emails Goebel writes that she is not Patsy's personal life coach. That information came from the Feb. 20 2001 article in the Atlantic Constitution when John called 911 to report an intruder at the Paces Ferry address. edited to change passed to pass [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "Here you go" Posted by Tricia on 10:02:41 9/20/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 10:02:41, 9/20/2001 Friends For JonBenét(tm). 400 Galleria Parkway, Suite 1500, Atlanta, Georgia 30339 Voice: 678/385-5940 Fax: 678/385-5901 Email: info@friendsforjonbenet.org Let's get busy! Tricia http://www.friendsforjonbenet.org above is the link for the site [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Contact Info for GA Charity Investigative Agencies" Posted by Dunvegan on 16:11:16 9/20/2001 Here is web site for Cathy Cox, Georgia Secretary of State http://www.sos.state.ga.us/securities/charit.htm Cathy Cox Secretary of State Responsible for registration, investigation and enforcement: Cathy Cox Secretary of State Division of Securities and Business Regulation Suite 802, West Tower 2 Martin Luther King, Jr. Drive, SE Atlanta, Georgia 30334 http://sosweb@sos.state.ga.us (404) 656-4910 Governor's Office of Consumer Affairs Responsible for investigation and enforcement regarding unfair and deceptive business practices: Governor's Office of Consumer Affairs Plaza Level East Tower, 205 Butler Street, SE Atlanta, Georgia 30334 Consumer Complaint Intake Center: Metro Atlanta (404) 651-8600 Outside Metro Atlanta 1-800-869-1123 National Charities Information Bureau Provides standards to be met by charities and a current list of those organizations meeting those standards: National Charities Information Bureau 19 Union Square West, 6th Floor New York, New York 10003-3395 (212) 929-6300 For additional information about any charitable organization listed here, please contact the Securities and Business Regulation Division at (404) 656-3920. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Zapata & All" Posted by Jerrya on 14:02:43 9/20/2001 refer to post #44 Q&A--number 5. ONE DIFFERENCE IN THE FOUNDATION IS THAT IT WAS FORMED AS A TRUST NOT A NONPROFIT CORPORATION. THERE ARE DIFFERENT LEGAL IMPLICATIONS ABOUT FUNDRASING FOR A TRUST SO THAT IS WHY MONIES DO NOT COME IN ROUTINELY VIA STANDARD FUNDRAISING APPROACHES It appears that Ms S. Goebel wants to produce a vivid impression or image of a JonBenet Foundation. But when pinned down by Zapata Mr S. Goebel say's it is Trust. There is no such thing as a TRUST FOUNDATION. Maybe a trust fund? These people have a ton of guts when it comes to deception & charlatanism. I suggest for clarity to read Post #44 slowly two times. How are we going to deal with this stench? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "Jerrya" Posted by zapata on 15:57:41 9/26/2001 I believe they changed the foundation from public to private right before announced or right after they announced that all profit from their "disgusting book" would go into the JBR childrens foundation. I believe that was so we would not know what went in and what came out of the foundation. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "Jerrya" Posted by zapata on 17:40:57 9/20/2001 That explains why a poster's donation to the JonBenet foundation was deposited in an account at Merrill Lynch. The same place that Westmoreland worked, the same place John called on the morning of the 26th to get approval for an advance on his visa card. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "And, Jerrya...that makes the records private." Posted by Dunvegan on 16:12:58 9/20/2001 Private organizations can do whatever they want with their monies. Anything...they are private. Their records are basically private. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. ""Prayers"" Posted by Sabrina on 16:24:25 9/20/2001 This has been added to the friends website under "prayers". I needed a barf bag when I read it. "Prayer Requests Please check our site regularly for our most recent prayer requests: September, 2001 For the recent aol email/confession to be quickly processed by the Boulder Police For the DNA evidence submitted to the Boulder Police by a tipster to lead to the killer quickly" [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "Sabrina" Posted by zapata on 17:11:31 9/20/2001 Thanks. Don't that just make you want to go out and buy a years supply of barf bags? The part of the site that makes me especially ill is where she gives directions to JonBenet's grave and calls it a garden, a refreshing place. Nothing about JonBenet being planted 6-feet under is refeshing to me. It breaks my heart. I am outraged at the Ramsey's action. I had a picture that I had printed out of JonBenet on top of some papers on my kitchen counter. My 5-year old granddaughter asked me, "mimi, who is that little girl". I was so crushed. I did not tell her the whole story. I only told her it was a little girl that had died. She wanted to know how she died. I could not tell her. I would not tell her, and have her so afraid that she might go to sleep one night and the same thing happen to her. I now understand the fear the children and parents of Boulder had to deal with. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "Not to mention how heineous, cruel, and vicious..." Posted by Dunvegan on 17:43:51 9/20/2001 ...to say "there's a killer on the loose...hold your babies tight!" Striking fear of the "Undetectable, Untraceable, Unfindable Child Killer that can come into your house, while your entire family was there asleep, and horrifyingly murder you in you own basement. Imagine the terror this strikes in any child who hears the Ramseys on TV talking about how JonBenet was murdered after being tucked in her own bed, in her own house, on Christmas. I'm completely and utterly outraged. And, staying that way. The Ramseys need to be charged with terrorism, if you ask me...and, I don't say that lightly...if they murdered JonBenet and go on global television over and over saying to audiences that are partially made up of children, that there's an undetectable killer still roaming the country, they are doing nothing less than sowing terror in children everywhere. We need to get these reprehensible people charged. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "Dunvegan" Posted by zapata on 16:08:16 9/26/2001 I believe with all my heart that is exactly what the Ramseys have done. They have sown fear in the hearts of all our children. Now, imagine the last face little JonBenet saw. I think she is the reason we are all here still. I hope everyone will light a candle tonight. No special holiday, just to remember why we are here. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "Zapata,,,,," Posted by rose on 20:44:39 9/20/2001 Thank you for posting the exchange between you and Gobels(sp?). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "Great work, all!" Posted by Ayeka on 11:31:41 9/21/2001 WOW W O W Zapata, you ROCK! This is an AWESOME thread. How can it be called "Inc." if it isn't incorporated? There are non-profit corporations but she claims they're a "trust"? Isn't that an ironic phrase? :) Ayeka [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "Suzanne Goebel's Website" Posted by Jeanilou on 16:25:45 9/21/2001 ""Prayer Requests Please check our site regularly for our most recent prayer requests: September, 2001 For the recent aol email/confession to be quickly processed by the Boulder Police For the DNA evidence submitted to the Boulder Police by a tipster to lead to the killer quickly"...Sabrina Is that really on the site? I don't go there as I can only take so much garbage in one day. Jameson's Swamp is always enough to make be barf as it is, without going to the Ramsey's site or Goebel's. Why would they pray for the "AOL email/confession to be quickly processed by the Boulder police?" We all know that was a hoax. Even Jameson says she thought it to be false which brings me to the question as to why she turned it in to start with, which brings me to the answer, to get her name in the limelight again and try and prove that the "intruder" theory is valid. Once again, it was a dismal failure for her. She got her name in the limelight but no one is buying any intruder theory. No one ever will because the majority of the world knows that the Rams had something to do with the death of their child. The 1st crock didn't change that opinion, the Rams sham of a book did not change that opinion, the Lou Smit tour did not change that opinion, and the 2nd crock they are trying to hawk now will not change anyone's opinion either. Indeed just recently a poster got off the fence and became a believer of Ramsey guilt. And as for the DNA, it will not match unless it is Ramsey DNA, so that is not worth praying over either. Yes, Suzanne, I will pray. I will pray that the Rams go to jail just as soon as possible and that Jams does not lag far behind. Jeanilou, the Internet Sleuth Opinions are a dime a dozen and this is just one of mine. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "Jeanilou" Posted by zapata on 16:23:18 9/26/2001 Read the first chapter of DOI again and again. Note where John talks about all the kids that were at the house that morning. I bet some of those kids used the bathroom. I have always felt that JonBenet got the tiny particle of DNA off the commode seat. Then the 23rd there was at least 23 people in the house for the children's party. Some of those people used the toilet surely. I can't imagine Patsy cleaning a tiolet so that DNA was still there. It could have come from the Mall when JonBenet performed at that pageant. We don't know when the last time JonBenet had a bath. That DNA does not mean anything. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "Zapata" Posted by Nedthan Johns on 17:23:05 9/26/2001 You can't get DNA off a comode seat in 3 seperate places. The DNA IS important. It's male. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "By the way" Posted by Nedthan Johns on 17:25:10 9/26/2001 What the heck is going on with the case? Can anyone sum it up for me so I don't have to read the 30+ threads? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE