Justice Watch "Post from Chris concerning Contributions" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Post from Chris concerning Contributions, v_p, 21:17:29, 9/25/2001 v_p, Tricia, 21:25:52, 9/25/2001, (#1) Tricia, zapata, 10:55:13, 9/26/2001, (#36) Tricia, v_p, 21:26:20, 9/25/2001, (#2) Yes, Tricia, 21:29:24, 9/25/2001, (#3) School tuition, v_p, 21:33:34, 9/25/2001, (#4) This thread is idiotic!, LurkerXIV, 21:38:40, 9/25/2001, (#5) Lurker, hergus, 22:06:28, 9/25/2001, (#14) Ha, hergus! You and me both., LurkerXIV, 22:10:35, 9/25/2001, (#15) Lurker, Tricia, 21:44:22, 9/25/2001, (#9) Lurker, v_p, 21:44:16, 9/25/2001, (#8) Hey Tricia ..., Mandarin, 21:39:53, 9/25/2001, (#6) Oops Tricia ..., Mandarin, 21:41:48, 9/25/2001, (#7) So, Baybb, 21:52:44, 9/25/2001, (#11) Baybb, this is nutz..., LurkerXIV, 22:03:18, 9/25/2001, (#12) Lurker, zapata, 11:04:45, 9/26/2001, (#38) Good, Tricia, 21:46:42, 9/25/2001, (#10) Thanks v_p, Gemini, 22:04:41, 9/25/2001, (#13) LurkerXIV and BayBB, Gemini, 22:18:01, 9/25/2001, (#18) Gem,, LurkerXIV, 22:23:25, 9/25/2001, (#21) You are right, Gem., LurkerXIV, 22:13:59, 9/25/2001, (#16) Huh?, Mandarin, 22:17:08, 9/25/2001, (#17) Mandarin--, LurkerXIV, 22:19:02, 9/25/2001, (#19) Now, Now ..., Mandarin, 22:21:58, 9/25/2001, (#20) Ach!, Gemini, 22:28:32, 9/25/2001, (#22) Oh, please, Gem--, LurkerXIV, 22:31:01, 9/25/2001, (#23) Chris's husband has , Real Stormy, 22:43:16, 9/25/2001, (#24) High 5's to Low 6's, LurkerXIV, 22:51:58, 9/25/2001, (#25) Lurker (re post 23), Gemini, 22:57:41, 9/25/2001, (#27) I think, Twinkle, 22:57:02, 9/25/2001, (#26) For MI, general GS-13 pay scale is as follows, Seeker, 23:27:34, 9/25/2001, (#28) As the Stomach Turns, Ally, 05:55:29, 9/26/2001, (#32) 1099s, Kip, 00:07:32, 9/26/2001, (#29) ultimate infiltration, pinker, 01:58:51, 9/26/2001, (#30) pinker, zapata, 11:16:41, 9/26/2001, (#39) Why, Twitch, 04:43:25, 9/26/2001, (#31) Oh, I see now, Real Stormy, 09:04:10, 9/26/2001, (#33) Out of hand, arvada, 10:02:05, 9/26/2001, (#34) Arvada, Colorado Babe, 10:54:04, 9/26/2001, (#35) Tricia, zapata, 10:57:45, 9/26/2001, (#37) A Sincere Appeal....., Voyager, 12:08:21, 9/26/2001, (#40) Voyager, Tricia, 13:11:23, 9/26/2001, (#41) After more thought, JR, 15:04:48, 9/26/2001, (#42) I Wish Everyone Would Calm Down, Harley, 16:29:31, 9/26/2001, (#43) Chris, history and money..., Hoot, 19:14:11, 9/26/2001, (#45) On Being Fair, pip, 19:03:46, 9/26/2001, (#44) Of course Pip, v_p, 21:20:47, 9/26/2001, (#46) Pip, StCrispin, 21:29:54, 9/26/2001, (#47) StCrispin, pip, 21:54:34, 9/26/2001, (#48) Pip, StCrispin, 21:58:48, 9/26/2001, (#49) No Pip ..., Mandarin, 22:44:48, 9/26/2001, (#50) St Crispin, Matilda, 22:59:52, 9/26/2001, (#52) You're right, pip, 22:56:55, 9/26/2001, (#51) arms, Matilda, 23:13:22, 9/26/2001, (#53) arms, Annette, 23:17:49, 9/26/2001, (#54) Dun, v_p, 23:34:06, 9/26/2001, (#55) V_P, Baybb, 23:45:34, 9/26/2001, (#56) I want to give Chris, pinker, 04:42:46, 9/27/2001, (#57) just a comment or two, Scully, 07:50:15, 9/27/2001, (#59) Another Unsolicited Opinion.., Ally, 08:16:03, 9/27/2001, (#60) Ally, Ayeka, 11:32:31, 9/27/2001, (#62) How Pathetic, JR, 06:48:19, 9/27/2001, (#58) Well, JR, Real Stormy, 08:49:47, 9/27/2001, (#61) It's OK!, Pedro, 11:50:07, 9/27/2001, (#63) LOL, Baybb, 12:04:05, 9/27/2001, (#64) Try, Pedro, 15:16:38, 9/27/2001, (#65) incomplete story, fly, 16:06:33, 9/27/2001, (#66) Fly, v_p, 16:32:18, 9/27/2001, (#67) ................................................................... "Post from Chris concerning Contributions" Posted by v_p on 21:17:29 9/25/2001 "Good Morning!" Posted by Chris on 05:41:42 9/01/2000 NOTE: This message was last edited 05:41:42, 9/01/2000 Well, I see that the server gremlins were working last night. Heh, what a frustrating week it has been. I want to let everyone know that we're going to have to make some changes to deal with the traffic. First of all, we're going to be going back to a private status and only people who actively participate and/or contribute will be members. There are people who I will call "legitimate lurkers" who include members of the media, law enforcement, Boulder officials and forum members who are uncomfortable posting yet contribute to the forum in other ways (financial, resources, etc.) We're also going to enforce a shareware concept. If you use the forum and like the forum you will be asked to contribute. Whether it's $1 or $1000 dollars (hey, a girl can dream). People with financial difficulties will not be penalized! Nor will "legitimate lurkers" (incl. members of the media, Boulder officials, etc.) I'll regularly post (probably monthly) a running balance (this will include no information about posters) for members of our current financial status, costs, etc. That will include membership numbers and other details. Members who do not contribute or contact me directly will lose their access. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "v_p" Posted by Tricia on 21:25:52 9/25/2001 you are my hero. What was that last paragraph: We're also going to enforce a shareware concept. If you use the forum and like the forum you will be asked to contribute. Whether it's $1 or $1000 dollars (hey, a girl can dream). People with financial difficulties will not be penalized! Nor will "legitimate lurkers" (incl. members of the media, Boulder officials, etc.) I'll regularly post (probably monthly) a running balance (this will include no information about posters) for members of our current financial status, costs, etc. That will include membership numbers and other details. Members who do not contribute or contact me directly will lose their access. This is all I needed. Chris stick a fork in ya. You are DUN! Tricia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Tricia" Posted by zapata on 10:55:13 9/26/2001 LOL [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Tricia" Posted by v_p on 21:26:20 9/25/2001 >>If you use the forum and like the forum you will be asked to contribute. <<< I guess that answers the question as to whether Chris ever asked for donations herself. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Yes" Posted by Tricia on 15:27:15 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 15:27:15, 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 21:29:57, 9/25/2001 indeed it does v_p. There is a good chance Chris is just slippery enough to avoid fraud issues but I am going to follow through on this as soon as possible. So did JW get all the upgraded crap she was talking about or did Chris get some money for to remodle her basement. Tricia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "School tuition" Posted by v_p on 21:33:34 9/25/2001 I'm thinking... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "This thread is idiotic!" Posted by LurkerXIV on 19:20:11 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:20:11, 9/26/2001 [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Lurker" Posted by hergus on 22:06:28 9/25/2001 I must be crazy, I'm sitting here reading all this while Geraldo reports bioterroism. Are my priorities screwed, or what? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Ha, hergus! You and me both." Posted by LurkerXIV on 19:20:49 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:20:49, 9/26/2001 . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "Lurker" Posted by Tricia on 21:44:22 9/25/2001 Read the post. Chris says she needed money to keep the forum. eveyone needed to contribute to the forum. She was going to update the software. None of that happened. She took the money, god knows how much and ran with it. 30 bucks went to the forum a month. That's it. Now if Chris wants to post an accounting of where all the money went then she can. If I am wrong in my assumption then I will apologize. In fact I would feel much better if I was wrong. Then I wouldn't feel like such an idiot for giving her money she didn't need. Lurker read the post. It is logical to conclude that Chris needed money to keep the forum up. More than 30 bucks a month. She even said those who don't contribute or contacted me will be deactivated. Chris if you want to show us where the money went or even better just show me where my 300 dollars went I will be happy. Tricia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Lurker" Posted by v_p on 21:44:16 9/25/2001 >Chris's husband has a government job that >pays in the high 6 figures, >and she doesn't need JW contributions >to remodel her home or pay >college tuition. But she did need it to pay 29.00 a month? Makes sense Lurker. >Speaking of lawsuits, you're setting yourselves and >Dunvegan up for one for defamation >and libel. LOL, how so Lurker, where do you see defamation? Did you contribute? Did you get a receipt or a thank you or an accounting of where the money went as Chris promised? Defamation suit my butt Lurker. Nothing that's been said on here can begin to compare to the defamation of another forum Chris/catnip frequents.. and rest assured, the posts are copied and stored away for future use. How absurd for a thinking person to even say something like you just said. Call an attorney tomorrow Lurker and ask them if they'd take the case... they'd ask you what YOU'VE been smoking. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Hey Tricia ..." Posted by Mandarin on 21:39:53 9/25/2001 Why don't you take her to Judge Judy's court. Can't you just see Judge Judy saying "I'm the Boss Applesauce" Ms. Wheeler and "Please don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining". This was a banner day for me ... I feel like I've been a mushroom - kept in the dark and fed bullshit for so many years. But you know, it's still the best place for me to get news, even if it gets a little distorted now and then. You have taken on a plight Tricia and I can feel your justified anger all the way here in Canada. Just wait till Dun gets the paperwork Tricia; you don't want to play your hand too quickly, know what I mean. As a matter of fact, Chris et al are probably reading every one of our posts, no? Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Oops Tricia ..." Posted by Mandarin on 21:41:48 9/25/2001 It appears one of them has shown up already. Be very careful till we whack out the weeds. Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "So" Posted by Baybb on 21:52:44 9/25/2001 I was gone a lot of the time last Fall and I don't remember seeing that post. So where is a post where she says she has implemented that rule? And does anyone have a copy of a demand letter for payment to post? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Baybb, this is nutz..." Posted by LurkerXIV on 19:21:31 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:21:31, 9/26/2001 . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "Lurker" Posted by zapata on 11:04:45 9/26/2001 Not so. When Chris started accepting "donations" she started a business. That earnings should have been reported. A gift is not a gift if it goes to run a business. So exit the 10,000 a year gift you can give to a person and that person not pay taxes on the money. The giver has to pay taxes on the gift. Not so when the money is collected to run a business. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "Good" Posted by Tricia on 21:46:42 9/25/2001 point Mandarin. I shall remain silent until Chris keeps her word. Maybe by tomorrow I will have calmed down too. Looking forward to Dunvegan saying paper work has arrived. Until then.... Goodnight Tricia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Thanks v_p" Posted by Gemini on 22:04:41 9/25/2001 This is the first time I've ever seen that post. It must not have been all that big a deal since I didn't see it and didn't comply (we knew from first hand experience it didn't cost all that much to run a forum site). The only "dunnings" (sorry Dun ... no pun intended : ) ) I've seen over the past year have been (as I mentioned on another thread) by Tricia and JR. Frankly, I wondered what on earth they were doing, but decided not to risk striking a spark. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Gemini ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "LurkerXIV and BayBB" Posted by Gemini on 22:18:01 9/25/2001 Agreed (godz I hate dittos : ( ). I can understand needing extra when servers are changing out, traffic is heavy and there are other extraordinary expenses. But, I've never understood the heavy soliciting by a couple or three users this past year or so. No statements went out, it was all voluntary. Why the complaints? Don't understand it. IMO, Chris was a helluva good sysop. Nobody can please everybody, so of course there are a few with grudges. It comes with the territory. No forum manager can carry on for over three years without stepping on some toes. Chris did better than most. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Gemini ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Gem," Posted by LurkerXIV on 19:22:12 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:22:12, 9/26/2001 . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "You are right, Gem." Posted by LurkerXIV on 19:19:29 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:19:29, 9/26/2001 . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Huh?" Posted by Mandarin on 22:17:08 9/25/2001 In your dreams buddy! Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Mandarin--" Posted by LurkerXIV on 19:22:48 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:22:48, 9/26/2001 . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Now, Now ..." Posted by Mandarin on 22:21:58 9/25/2001 Appears that even though I'm not a 'lifer' I'm getting good at picking up speed. No need to spend every day here you know. Go take a long walk off a short pier while you're lurking. Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "Ach!" Posted by Gemini on 22:28:32 9/25/2001 Mandarin! LXIV! Smack me if you want but ... darnit ... stop that. I don't agree with either one of you about the Ramsey case, but have come to admire you both as the good people you are. Puhleeeezzze don't whomp each other around like that. You're giving me backlash! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Gemini ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "Oh, please, Gem--" Posted by LurkerXIV on 19:23:34 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:23:34, 9/26/2001 . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "Chris's husband has " Posted by Real Stormy on 22:46:39 9/25/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:46:39, 9/25/2001 An income in the high six figures? $700,000 to $999,999? How could you possibly know that, Lurker? I'm sure Chris will appreciate your publicizing that. And what exactly are YOU smoking. If it is true, we must be paying our government employees entirely too much. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "High 5's to Low 6's" Posted by LurkerXIV on 19:24:17 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:24:17, 9/26/2001 . [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Lurker (re post 23)" Posted by Gemini on 22:57:41 9/25/2001 Oh yeah : ) ... you guys have been at it for a bit now, haven't you. Like Hergus said on another thread ... my mind's mostly on other things. Hergus, if I'd been using more than half a brain earlier, I'd have remembered that. I don't think anyone did it maliciously ... just out of the goodness of their hearts. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ EMAIL Gemini ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "I think" Posted by Twinkle on 22:58:25 9/25/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:58:25, 9/25/2001 that this is a very distasteful. I know it is the WOR but to be discussing how much Chris' husband makes is just awful in my books. I think Chris was dragging her feet and Dunvegan did the right thing. She forced her hand, because Chris was obviously not intending to live up to her end of the deal. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "For MI, general GS-13 pay scale is as follows" Posted by Seeker on 23:34:41 9/25/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 23:34:41, 9/25/2001 GS-13 Step 1 64,880 Step 2 67,043 Step 3 69,207 Step 4 71,370 Step 5 73,533 Step 6 75,696 Step 7 77,860 Step 8 80,023 Step 9 82,186 Step 10 84,349 These are annual salary rates before taxes, HB, Life Ins, TSP (10K), allotments, garnishments, etc. Salary breakdown is as follows, take annual salary rate and divide it by 2080 to get the hourly rate, then times that by 80 hours (fed employees are typically paid bi-weekly). After deductions the employee's usually do not really bring home as much as people think. All Federal employee's pay is considered PUBLIC and falls under the FOIA. In fact, if you have the employee's name and know where they work you can call up their HR and get 5 items of Public Information on them. What position they currently have (and prior positions they've held), Salary rate (grade, step and annual amount) where they are currently located (duty station/work not home), who their supervisor is, and their years in service. All this information can be found at http://www.fedweek.com and http://www.opm.gov I don't know what Chris's husband does, or where he works. As far as I'm concerned that's their business. Forgot to add, Lurker GS-15 is the max for GS pay. A 15-10 makes $117,239.00 annually. That's including special pay for GS. There are other special salaries for Selected Occupations. And then there's the SES pay tables. It get's very interesting the more you look. They always look good (the salaries) until after they hit you with all those deductions... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "As the Stomach Turns" Posted by Ally on 05:55:29 9/26/2001 >Forgot to add, Lurker GS-15 is the >max for GS pay. A 15-10 >makes $117,239.00 annually. L O L Seeker.. let's round that up to around, say, $118,000................... --> Ally 8-) PS- Okay I'm all for total disclosure, but, on THIS forum Chris seemed like a decent person and did "do better than most." I remember that post and was worried about losing my "lurker" status, but I think the feedback she received from that thread inspired her to reconsider. So I have decided in the wake of all this bickering, to keep an open mind. We want the forum to go *forward*, don't we? Let's not get mired in muck. I will say I am sorry for those of you who 'contributed' so much $$$. Hope you can get to the bottom of it. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "1099s" Posted by Kip on 00:07:32 9/26/2001 I think Zapata's idea of sending Chris 1099's for contributions is great. If Chris reported the income, it will be no problem. If she didn't, ... maybe there will be justice. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. " ultimate infiltration" Posted by pinker on 01:58:51 9/26/2001 So, Chris's husband is a cop type for the state of Michigan as in Charlevoix. Wonder where the alligence was from the begining...seems the locals with badges shared cookies and held hands with the Ramseys. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "pinker" Posted by zapata on 11:16:41 9/26/2001 That should be was. I think he now has another occupation. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "Why" Posted by Twitch on 04:43:25 9/26/2001 don't you all give it a rest. Leave Chris alone. You are helping to tear this forum down with this divisiveness. This is not what Dun or JW need now. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "Oh, I see now" Posted by Real Stormy on 09:04:10 9/26/2001 Lurker didn't see the post from Chris so it must not be important. Mandarin hasn't posted for a while, so Lurker thinks she isn't important. What an enormous ego. Incredible. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "Out of hand" Posted by arvada on 10:02:05 9/26/2001 The pettiness and vindictiveness here is embarassing. There are more mean spirited posters here than on jam's forum. I hope Chris sends all the whiners refunds although I sure don't want one. I believe her time and effort was worth what little bit I ever contributed. And remember please, they WERE contributions. I never felt pressured to give and I did so because I used the forum, I believed in the forum, and I wanted to do something to support it in a small way. To discuss her private life and financial situation is totally out of line. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Arvada" Posted by Colorado Babe on 10:54:04 9/26/2001 I agree with your comment. I only gave one time and I felt that the $25.00 I gave her was a small token of my appreciation. I am not asking for a refund, I am only asking Chris to come back here and respond to those that feel like they were taken. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Tricia" Posted by zapata on 10:57:45 9/26/2001 It will not cost you a dime if you go the other route. You can file criminal charges and have a law enforcement agency investigate this incident. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "A Sincere Appeal....." Posted by Voyager on 12:08:21 9/26/2001 This is a sincere appeal to everyone at Justice Watch to drop the discussion of of perceived past injustices...especially where money and donations are concerned...If you think about it carefully, it serves no constructive purpose.... A donation is money or goods given of one's own free will for a cause or for the purpose of helping another....it is a gift, not the payment of a bill or obligation... When giving the donation, it is a good idea to say to oneself..." am giving this amount to this person/cause...if I change my mind about it's worthiness later, will I regret having given this amount?Then on the basis of that decision making process, either increase, reduce, or eliminate the donation entirely.... Once the donation is given, let it go....it was given in good faith and generosity....the good faith and the generosity are yours to keep....you will benefit personally from those good feeling and disiplines.... Whether or not the receiving cause/person uses the donation for the pupose or in the way you intended, is no longer a concern for you....you have done a good thing and put out positive intentions into the universe that will be of help to you and others always.... One of the rules of generosity is give only what you can give unconditionally....that way, both the giver and the receiver are put on an equal level where no anomosity exists... Once the gift is given, it is no longer the responsibilty of the giver...let it go....the receiver is now responsible to use the gift in the way they see fit and for the needs that they have..... Never give more than you can afford to give without resentment or without wanting some repayment....give only for the joy of giving and you won't be disappointed...otherwise you will become a victim of your own generosity.... I have never been an advocate of "give till it hurts", and I do not think that is healthy....Open your heart and give what your good sense tells you that you can give without regret...give it and then forget it.... I care about Chris and her reputation and knowing her through the forum for years, I do not believe that she was actively solicitating funds, although who would not want to be compensated at least somewhat for the hundereds of hours spent working for JW's personal needs.... I care about some of the people here who are feeling hurt and betrayed because of their misconceptions about forum costs and what donations were being used for....however, it really was your responsibility to ask before giving.... Chris is not capable of fraud in my mind, and I hope that anyone exploring legal action will drop the idea and back off of this money discussion which in anger has gotten completely out of hand... Those of you who have not been here for all the years that some of us have, do not know the history of caring and sacrifices made in the name of JW's members by Chris and a number of us old timers....please give Chris and some of those who have been around long enough to know most of the history of JW, the benefit of the doubt and let all of the donation stuff be water under the bridge.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Voyager" Posted by Tricia on 13:11:23 9/26/2001 Please read v_p's first post. Chris told us she needed money to keep the forum going. New soft ware etc... I agree 100 percent that when you give you give unconditionally. I know what you are saying. Let me put it to you this way. A neighbor comes to you and asks for a donation because he wants to plant trees and flowers along your street. To make it more beautiful. He suggests everyone contribute to the project. Then you find out the project only costs, let's say 30 dollars and you know that person received 10 times that just from you. Only 30 dollars went to the project. Where did all the money go? How would you feel? You gave unconditionally to this person to do a project. No conditions other than the money was for the stated project. The money was for the project but the money you gave did not go to the project. If the person collecting the money had said, This money will go to the cost of the project AND the cost of my time, then I would have no problem. I was lead to believe the forum was expensive to run. I have found out that is not true. Please understand where I am coming from. I also agree that we need to let this go and Voyager I promise you I will right after I get a few answers to some things. I don't plan on suing or filing charges. Don't have the time and it would only create a more hostile enviroment. No I just want to find out the laws and such pertaining to a situation like this. Then I will post what I have found out as to let others decide if fraud was committed. Then I will let it go. Thank you again Voyager for your insightful posts. I really do appreciate them. Tricia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "After more thought" Posted by JR on 15:04:48 9/26/2001 As I stated initially, I don't begrudge the money I sent to Chris (and Dan for that matter.) While I did state Chris ought to donate any "profit" to Steve's defense fund, after thinking it through, I am sure that any "profit" Chris might have made has been used for another worthy cause. Remember, she took in Daisy and all those darling puppies. That kind of commitment also takes money and I believe this wasn't Chris's only effort at providing one of our animal friends a good home and food. I am satisfied that what I sent to Chris has been spent well be it on the forum or on those animal friends. Perhaps if we all look at it more objectively, we can just "let it go." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "I Wish Everyone Would Calm Down" Posted by Harley on 16:29:31 9/26/2001 I don't know exactly what has started all this horrible animosity toward Chris. Granted she should give whatever papers to Dun and I don't understand why she has not. But as for any contributions at no time did I feel like I had to send money to Chris. I did contribute a couple of times (no great amount). I felt it was money well spent as back then especially I really enjoyed coming to JW. I sincerely doubt that Chris got rich, remodeled her basement or whatever on the money she was sent and in my opinion talk of lawsuits to either get the money back or somehow get Chris in trouble with the IRS for not reporting the contributions is ridiculous. Talking about what her husband makes, how she has a big house, etc. I don't get. So what. If her husband has a good job (and trust me no one who works for the Government is rich) that is their business, no ours. We need to stop all of this squabling or there will not be a JW worth coming too anymore. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "Chris, history and money..." Posted by Hoot on 19:14:11 9/26/2001 Please re-read what Voyager just said above ...that pretty much covers it...this isn't getting us anywhere and it's making me really tired to even lurk it some. Wonder what JonBenet thinks of us...huh? Chris will straighten it all out after awhile. signed: Hoot bye for now... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "On Being Fair" Posted by pip on 19:04:58 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:04:58, 9/26/2001 It would seem a private business agreement between two well-meaning individuals has become a public scandal. While I don't quite understand why Dun decided to air this matter so publically, it's my understanding that the situation is resolved as far as Dun is concerned. Sadly, in airing her side of the story, Dun left the incomplete story out on the line for mindless scrutiny. Aside from Dun's reporting of her costs so far, I don't see facts about fluctuating costs Chris experienced related to increases in bandwidth usage, costs related to changing servers when that usage was too high for a given server, or other costs that may have occured. I choose to continue to trust Chris, mainly because I see no reason not to! Would you like your integrity to be called into question everytime you missed an anticipated deadline? The truth is that "life happens". Whatever the reason for the delay, I can't imagine it reflects a dishonest motive. My regret is that I didn't contribute MORE money. I know in my heart that the biggest contributor of all, in dollars and sweat and tears, was Chris herself. I suspect Dun knows that, as well. Our troubles are miniscule. Thousands are dead. Many more thousands are grieving, directly and indirectly, because of those losses. Thousands are out of work. Our troubles are miniscule. Please let it go. pip [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "Of course Pip" Posted by v_p on 21:24:31 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 21:24:31, 9/26/2001 >>>The truth is that "life happens". Whatever the reason for the delay, I can't imagine it reflects a dishonest motive. <<< Dishonest, unethical... you pick Pip. Chris posted a private email from Dunvegan today at FS... I've deleted the body of the email, but left Chris' point, in her own words, for posting the private email at the end... From: "Leia Amidon" >snip< Warmest Regards, > Leia Amidon > "Dunvegan" "I hope the members of Justice Watch appreciate the implications of their Webmaster in terms of their level of sanity." (Chris) ~*~*~*~**~ Seems as though Chris has nothing but sincere hopes for Dunvegan's success and is doing all she can to help her along, doesn't it? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "Pip" Posted by StCrispin on 21:29:54 9/26/2001 nice to see you! Back again to stir the shit? Why is that we only have the honor of your contributions when is time to bash somebody or cover for some dishonest individual? Folks, Queens & Co will try to made you loss focus on the important issues and will bring all kind of bull shit here. They will attack those who can be fired up, like Pedro or v_p or WY. Don't loss focus on the importan issue and keep asking questions! Don't let them divert your attention, that's what they want! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "StCrispin" Posted by pip on 21:54:34 9/26/2001 I'm sorry if my post seems to be stirring chit. That isn't my intention, any more that Voyager's post above is stirring chit. My post is a call for peace. I don't think I know you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Pip" Posted by StCrispin on 21:58:48 9/26/2001 Peace be welcome. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "No Pip ..." Posted by Mandarin on 22:44:48 9/26/2001 Cough, cough, cough .... Noooooo, your post wasn't anything remotely like Voyager's well thought out post. You had a very definite slant there and you did not need to be a rocket scientist to notice it. You don't fool me one bit. (JMO, you don't have to like it) Regards, Mandarin [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "St Crispin" Posted by Matilda on 23:07:25 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 23:07:25, 9/26/2001 LOL Pedro too funny you posting with the borrowed St Crispin hat that you got from River rat. Anyone who is blind in one eye, and has the other eye full of chit can still see its you. edited to add SAVE CHINA! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "You're right" Posted by pip on 22:57:52 9/26/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 22:57:52, 9/26/2001 I'm not as eloquent as Voyager. We all have our biases, and the freedom to share them. Thanks for responding. pip Edited to add: FREE CHINA! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "arms" Posted by Matilda on 23:13:22 9/26/2001 ARMS FOR PENCILBOY [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "arms" Posted by Annette on 23:17:49 9/26/2001 ARMS BY LITTLE DICK [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "Dun" Posted by v_p on 23:34:06 9/26/2001 Isn't this special... you won't go to Flamesleuths, so they're coming to you. BTW, just FYI, if you felt your personal information was safe with Chris, think again... unless, of course, you don't tick her off. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "V_P" Posted by Baybb on 23:45:34 9/26/2001 BTW, just FYI, if you felt your personal information was safe with Pedro, think again... unless, of course, you don't tick him off. Just keep on sucking. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "I want to give Chris" Posted by pinker on 04:42:46 9/27/2001 the benefit of the doubt and I don't care about money, but I did trust her which is more valuable. Whatever was being overnighted to Dunvegan on the 25th wasn't reported to have arrived in true overnight fashion on the 26th. Hmm... Also this isn't the only forum to be in a meltdown status. The new CS has been hacked to be non existent. That leaves jameson, FS and some fringe forums. As though someone doesn't want the truth about JonBenet uncovered ... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "just a comment or two" Posted by Scully on 07:50:15 9/27/2001 I have to agree with 'pip' that Dunvegan did not use the best of judgment by informing the board of an ongoing business conflict with the former webmistress of JW. If what Dunvegan has to say is true, I can sympathize with the intense frustration she must be feeling, but I certainly wish an alternative method had been sought in order to resolve their differences. From my perspective, the result of this incident has been a dramatic increase in the tension and hostilities between posters, and I think the forum now runs a very real risk of imploding. To those who feel they were cheated by contributing money to the former webmistress, I just want to say there is always a certain amount of risk involved in revealing personal information or sending money to people over the internet. I got burned to the tune of $300 on E-bay last year, but that's my own damned fault and I chalk it up to experience. (I still want to kill the mf'r, but that's beside the point). My comments today were not meant to offend or alienate anyone in this group. I would like to continue to think that both Dunvegan and Chris are decent, caring human beings whose sole mission is to provide an arena for discussing the issues of the day. I hope we can all find a way to put our differences aside and turn our attention to more important matters. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "Another Unsolicited Opinion.." Posted by Ally on 08:18:38 9/27/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:18:38, 9/27/2001 Well, if you read Dunvegan's post, I don't know what other "alternative method" you would suggest she had sought to resolve their differences.. did she not list her various attempts to make contact with Chris Wheeler, the domain owner? To me it appears that time was running out and a sense of urgency was being ignored by certain parties who claimed a lack of time to attend to business matters but demonstrated an apparent *abundance* of time to post trash on the flamesleuths forum at Delphi. As a last resort it appears that Dunvegan took it public.. and look what happened! Immediate gratification, if you will. I'm sure that Dunvegan as well as many of the rest of us regret that this final action was necessary. And yes, predictably, the impact of this decision did result in further tension and hostilities among posters some of whom I get the distinct impression would love *nothing better* than to see the forum implode under the weight of its own bandwidth! IGNORE THESE FLAME THREADS STOP FIGHTING RETURN TO THE MAIN JBR FORUM AND LET'S GET (to borrow a phrase) BACK TO CASE. There. I'm finished. PS- Scully, I shop eBay all the time and have never been burned. Of course, I am not bidding on $300 merchandise either.. what happened??? Inquiring minds want to know! I though everybody selling on eBay was decent. ;-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 62. "Ally" Posted by Ayeka on 11:32:31 9/27/2001 You said it durn good. :) I avoided coming to the WOR for the longest time after I first signed in here 'cause I didn't want the top of my head singed off. :) This is the place for puttin' up your dukes, but some people just don't know how to get over it, get it out of their system, and leave it here. FS sounds like a place for people who are too cowardly to directly address their problems with the person who's bothering them. How lame. Ayeka [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "How Pathetic" Posted by JR on 06:48:19 9/27/2001 These are grown women? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "Well, JR" Posted by Real Stormy on 08:49:47 9/27/2001 "Grown" is debatable. "Women" is also debatable. What puzzles me is their determination to disrupt Pedro's personal life. I can't imagine ever being that bored or jealous. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 63. "It's OK!" Posted by Pedro on 11:50:07 9/27/2001 No problem here. They did this before, the same group, I did lost my temper and Chris banned me from JW. It won't happen again. Posters, they try to *import* FSluts in to JW, don't let them do it, it's just a game,a divertion for use to don't focus on the main issues!. This is Dunvegan's forum, that's what made these *ladies* itch! It's Dunvegan's decission what to do about it, it isn't my busines! If these women have a good time and get athrill by posting sexual related words, it's ok with me! Pedro [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 64. "LOL" Posted by Baybb on 12:04:05 9/27/2001 I'll happen again, and again and again. It always has. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 65. "Try" Posted by Pedro on 15:16:38 9/27/2001 Try dear :-) Even Pedro can learn! Pedro. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 66. "incomplete story" Posted by fly on 16:06:33 9/27/2001 This whole mess is based on an incomplete story. As pip pointed out, we don't know the actual costs to maintain JW. I think Dunvegan stated that high traffic times runs up the cost significantly above the basic rate. We may know the basic rate, but we don't know the actual costs. Until we do, people are basing their conclusions on assumptions that might well be wrong. We also don't know the amount of money contributed. Unless a lot of people were as generous as Tricia apparently was, and I rather doubt that, the amount of contributions might be smaller than some are probably estimating. I seriously doubt that anybody would begrudge Chris pocketing a reasonable amount as payment for her time and trouble. Problem is, we don't know how things balanced out, and as long as that is the case, people are going to make assumptions (both positive and negative) and things will remain in turmoil. I also think that people would not be quite so willing to think badly of Chris concerning the contributions if we hadn't had reports of Chris posting uncharitably about Dunvegan and JW over at FS and if the problem of getting the transfer papers hadn't occured. Because that seems so unlike the positive view of Chris many people had, it opens the door to wonder whether some of these other accusations (and those made some time ago) might have some merit afterall. I think it is premature to accuse Chris of fraud. The possibility exists, of course, and I certainly understand why Tricia might feel as she does, but we need to know some fairly crucial facts before getting out the tar and feathers would be justified. IMO [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 67. "Fly" Posted by v_p on 16:32:18 9/27/2001 Thanks. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] ARCHIVE REMOVE