Justice Watch Support JW "Read it - and WEEP!" [ Main ] [ Post New Thread ] [ Help ] [ Search ] Table of Contents ................................................................... Read it - and WEEP!, Cutter, 13:22:04, 4/30/2001 and, Tricia, 13:26:43, 4/30/2001, (#1) Thanks, JR, 13:29:32, 4/30/2001, (#2) Cutter,, LurkerXIV, 13:30:09, 4/30/2001, (#3) Lurker...., Voyager, 13:38:08, 4/30/2001, (#4) Cutter, Jellyjaws, 13:50:21, 4/30/2001, (#5) Census Girl's Excellent Vid-Caps;, LurkerXIV, 13:55:31, 4/30/2001, (#6) Voyager, JR, 14:01:17, 4/30/2001, (#7) Census Girl's Photos, LurkerXIV, 14:07:52, 4/30/2001, (#8) That window.., listener, 14:31:44, 4/30/2001, (#11) distance, fly, 14:20:28, 4/30/2001, (#10) LurkerXIV, Watching you, 14:20:26, 4/30/2001, (#9) Cutter- Please send your findings to the media, Sabrina, 14:47:26, 4/30/2001, (#15) Fly and Cutter, Jellyjaws, 14:36:32, 4/30/2001, (#13) Fly, Cutter, 14:36:18, 4/30/2001, (#12) Cutter, fly, 14:46:15, 4/30/2001, (#14) Fly and Jellyjaws, Cutter, 15:00:52, 4/30/2001, (#16) Cutter, Nedthan Johns, 15:10:08, 4/30/2001, (#17) Sabrina, Cutter, 15:18:03, 4/30/2001, (#18) Nedthan Johns, Cutter, 15:31:23, 4/30/2001, (#20) Autopsy Description Of Marks, JR, 15:21:09, 4/30/2001, (#19) Well there it is!, Holly, 15:34:47, 4/30/2001, (#21) not a vampire, Edie Pratt, 15:38:06, 4/30/2001, (#22) I thought, Watching you, 15:45:28, 4/30/2001, (#23) gets dark early, WY, Edie Pratt, 15:48:14, 4/30/2001, (#24) Oh, Edie!, Jessa Ash, 18:52:09, 4/30/2001, (#41) Yeh,, Holly, 18:12:35, 4/30/2001, (#36) I wish, driver, 16:13:21, 4/30/2001, (#25) Watch it Driver, JR, 16:19:20, 4/30/2001, (#26) Cutter, JR, 16:40:00, 4/30/2001, (#27) Window....., rose, 16:57:17, 4/30/2001, (#28) The window, JR, 17:03:18, 4/30/2001, (#29) rose, Pope38, 17:13:01, 4/30/2001, (#30) heh, someone, Watching you, 17:20:49, 4/30/2001, (#31) Cutter, austingirl, 17:33:38, 4/30/2001, (#32) The Window, JR, 17:47:47, 4/30/2001, (#33) Different window-, LurkerXIV, 18:36:40, 4/30/2001, (#37) JR, Nedthan Johns, 17:57:56, 4/30/2001, (#34) Ned, JR, 18:09:07, 4/30/2001, (#35) Excellent Photos, Ginja, 18:45:19, 4/30/2001, (#40) I think the, Holly, 18:38:15, 4/30/2001, (#38) oh, THAT window, Edie Pratt, 18:41:21, 4/30/2001, (#39) And the band played on..., Cutter, 19:02:47, 4/30/2001, (#43) The inner aspect only counts, Holly, 19:22:40, 4/30/2001, (#46) Another look....., rose, 19:02:24, 4/30/2001, (#42) Mr Holly and our fave, Holly, 19:17:31, 4/30/2001, (#44) And another thing -, Holly, 19:19:49, 4/30/2001, (#45) It's too sad, mary99, 19:38:47, 4/30/2001, (#47) Holly, Cutter, 19:54:41, 4/30/2001, (#48) Also Cutter - , Holly, 20:14:19, 4/30/2001, (#51) Cutter., Holly, 20:06:05, 4/30/2001, (#50) Dr. Wecht, austingirl, 19:57:29, 4/30/2001, (#49) Cyril Wecht, Holly, 04:49:01, 5/01/2001, (#54) Neither did Lou Smit, LurkerXIV, 09:09:15, 5/01/2001, (#58) Mark measurements, rachel, 21:58:19, 4/30/2001, (#52) curling iron...., rose, 00:56:52, 5/01/2001, (#53) rose, rachel, 05:12:27, 5/01/2001, (#55) Yes, rachel, LurkerXIV, 09:14:13, 5/01/2001, (#59) Cutter, A.K., 05:47:27, 5/01/2001, (#56) Air Taser Expert Speaks, LurkerXIV, 09:07:42, 5/01/2001, (#57) Lurker, JR, 09:54:10, 5/01/2001, (#60) Isn't it possible..., Phantom, 12:54:50, 5/01/2001, (#61) ................................................................... "Read it - and WEEP!" Posted by Cutter on 13:22:04 4/30/2001 Q: How do you put the final nail in the Ramsey coffin? A: You turn Lou Smit loose on network TV. CensusGrrl on WS has provided amazing video captures of this morning's Today Show broadcast which are telling a MUCH different story than Team Ramsey intended. First we were treated to Lou Smit bounding gayly through the basement window, only to completely disprove his own theory. We should refresh our memories from the following GMA transcript: --- Vargas (VO) Thomas says this photo of the undisturbed dust and dirt on the outside windowsill proves no one entered through the window. Thomas: And if somebody was making entry, as Lou suggests, and stepping onto a suitcase and then into the basement, would have to either drag themselves across their rear end or their belly to get into this house. You can't dive through this window because there is some pipe chases which would obstruct your path. Vargas: You've actually done this... you and another detective tried to crawl through this window... Thomas: Yes, several of us have. What's interesting is that the dirt and debris on the sill is absolutely undisturbed so unless we have a flying spiderman who came through this window, I don't know how anyone could enter this window without coming across the sill. --- Next, at long last, the photo of the ACTUAL marks on JonBenet's back which Smit claims were made by a stun gun. I want you all to save this photo -- Then take your favorite graphics program and cut a section of the ruler out of the photo -- Rotate the ruler section to the left about 28 degrees and place it next to the marks. Note that not only are the marks radically out of alignment, but the distance between the marks measures LESS than 3 centimeters. Not even CLOSE to the electrode spacing on the Air Taser stun gun at 3.4 centimeters. In fact, it's over one-half centimeter difference. No possible way were those marks were created by an Air Taser. This finally confirms exactly what I posted here last December and on the Stun Gun Myth web page. Later this week, when I post the actual, full size, side by side, comparison of the autopsy photo marks and Taser stun gun there will no longer be a doubt in anyone's mind. Today (pun intended) is turning out to be a VERY BAD day for the Ramseys. And finally... I had no idea that when Jameson said we would all be weeping after the broadcast, she meant tears of joy.... Thank you Lou Smit. [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 1. "and" Posted by Tricia on 13:26:43 4/30/2001 Thank you so much Cutter for posting this. This is what is so wonderful about Justice Watch and other forums on the internet. People like me who have yet to learn how to REALLY use a computer or have the time research, can come to these forums and see the truth. Thank you so much. Tricia [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 2. "Thanks" Posted by JR on 13:32:06 4/30/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:32:06, 4/30/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 13:31:38, 4/30/2001 Now - for all those intruder believers - just how many fibers do you think will be picked up off the window after todays display? Edited to add - why no heel marks on the wall and yet there is a toe mark from going back out the window? LOOK at Smit's feet! Dang typos. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 3. "Cutter," Posted by LurkerXIV on 13:30:09 4/30/2001 I agree. The Rams are slitting their own throats this week by letting Lou Smit make this ridiculous presentation on their behalf. Thanks for the photo of the "stungun" marks. But now I'm wondering what did make those marks in such an unusual place on her body. Could Aunt Pammy and Patsy have slipped with some dressmakers' pins while fitting JonBenet's costumes for the Miss Hawaii pageant? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 4. "Lurker...." Posted by Voyager on 13:38:08 4/30/2001 As to what actually did make those marks on little JonBenet's back...remember Ruthee's well researched theory that they were made by a crafting potholder frame, like the one photographed at the possible crime scene in JonBenet's bedroom? Remember Ruthee went down to the local discount store, purchased one that look exactly like the one in the photo and made those very same marks on her own arm.... As I remember it she hypothesised that while JonBenet was being molested in her own bed, that somehow this potholder frame was under her body an the holes punctured in her back.... Does anyone know if this theory is still on Ruthee's internet site? Can't believe that the BPD has not picked up on this major hypothesis and tested it at least as much as they have tested and considered the ridiculous stun gun theory.... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 5. "Cutter" Posted by Jellyjaws on 13:50:21 4/30/2001 Your posts are always so enjoyable. Facts, I like facts, stuff you can measure. But that's me, on the concrete side of things. Thank you for the many things you do to make this case easier to understand. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 6. "Census Girl's Excellent Vid-Caps;" Posted by LurkerXIV on 13:55:31 4/30/2001 are here, enhanced and very clear: http://www.websleuths.com/cgi-bin/dcf/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=307&forum=DCForumID1&omm=0 Thank you very much Census Girl. Wish you still posted here. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 7. "Voyager" Posted by JR on 14:01:17 4/30/2001 Yes, the theory is still posted and I initially measured my loom for Ruthee and the measurements were right on the mark - no pun intended! Ruthee's site: http://www.webbsleuthss.com/stungun.html [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 8. "Census Girl's Photos" Posted by LurkerXIV on 14:07:52 4/30/2001 There are two autopsy photos of the alleged stungun marks. One of her back and one of her head. The mark on her head is nasty -- hard to look at. The extent of this child's torture can only be imagined. Some say this mark resembles a cigarette burn. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 11. "That window.." Posted by listener on 14:31:44 4/30/2001 I also remember reading and seeing, on Ruthee's site, about the very cracked and peeling paint on that window sill. If someone were to enter/leave through that window, surely pieces of that paint would have come off; however, her photo showed that it was undisturbed. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 10. "distance" Posted by fly on 14:20:28 4/30/2001 Cutter - I don't have a graphics program, but here's what I did - took a piece of lined paper and placed it on the screen and marked the locations of the two marks on her back. I then repositioned the paper along the ruler in the picture. Doing it this way, the separation of the middles of the marks is clearly over 3cm. Any idea as to why your version and mine produce different results? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 9. "LurkerXIV" Posted by Watching you on 14:20:26 4/30/2001 those photos are ugly, but I think it's hard to tell anything from them. You know, and I know, how photographs sometimes enhance colors and don't give a really clear understanding of what those injuries looked like. It's also hard to tell anything just by looking at that one little area where the two marks are. It's sort of like reading a statement out of context. We aren't getting the whole picture. However, the pathologist who did the autopsy saw those marks up close and personal like, and he called them abrasions and scratches. Oh, to know what that man has to say about all this. He's not talking, though. I honestly never gave Ruthie's theory on those marks much credence, but I'm beginning to wonder, now. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 15. "Cutter- Please send your findings to the media" Posted by Sabrina on 14:47:26 4/30/2001 Cutter, your analysis should be faxed to Katie Couric and Neil Shapiro (Dateline editor) Katie's story is probably already done, but Dateline is most likely still putting it together. My belief is if these marks were so remarkable the medical personnel, who are trained in this, would have "discovered" it as suspicious. It is possible the coloration in the photo is much darker than it actually was. I AM crying tears....from laughing so hard! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 13. "Fly and Cutter" Posted by Jellyjaws on 14:36:32 4/30/2001 I had a question like fly's. You measure from the inside? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 12. "Fly" Posted by Cutter on 14:36:18 4/30/2001 Sorry Fly, I guess I wasn't specific enough. The measurement is BETWEEN the marks, not to the center. Additionally, the method you used will be effected by how you have the horizontal and vertical hold on your monitor set. It will produce different results on everyone's monitor who tries it that way. But still, if you got 3 cm to the center of the marks, you should get the general idea doing it that way by measuring BETWEEN the extreme inside edges of the marks... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 14. "Cutter" Posted by fly on 14:46:15 4/30/2001 I didn't realize there would be significant distortion based on my monitor vertical/horizontal setting. But why measure from the extreme inside edges, rather than from the middle of the marks? Seems more likely to me that the middle of the marks would be a better representation of the separation of a stun gun/taser's prongs. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 16. "Fly and Jellyjaws" Posted by Cutter on 15:00:52 4/30/2001 Because the measurement on the Air Taser stun is 3.4 cm between the inside edges of the electrodes. It's just the reference point. Here ya go, compliments of the Ramsey home page. (Talk about cooking your own goose - LOL) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 17. "Cutter" Posted by Nedthan Johns on 15:10:08 4/30/2001 So Cutter how does Smit disprove his own theory, by crawling in through the window sill? He didn't carry in any debris that I saw, and he did this quite easily. Cutter I do have to admit, seeing the autopsy photos on air for the first time, those marks do not look like stun gun marks to me and appear to be much deeper. I would have to wait to see what Lou has to say later in the week. But I was surprised at the depth they appear to have. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 18. "Sabrina" Posted by Cutter on 15:18:03 4/30/2001 I can guarantee you that multiple sources made both Katie Couric and the Today Show producers aware of the problems with the stun gun match-up WELL BEFORE this week . They were warned that if they broadcast that stun gun theory crap, without first being positively sure the marks matched up, they would stand a very good chance of looking like fools. Tomorrow is stun gun day on the show. Look for Ms. Couric to join the ranks of the incompetent Barbara Walters and her sloppy 20/20 journalistic research that made the same mistake. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 20. "Nedthan Johns" Posted by Cutter on 15:31:23 4/30/2001 The issue here is not debris that might have been carried in, it's the dirt and dust on the sill that was not disturbed in any way. Read the quote from Thomas above in the original thread post. The window was open, and broken. If there was debris on the floor it could have blown in at any time. Maybe even days before through the broken pane of glass. My feeling on the marks is the exact opposite of yours. I was shocked at how little depth the marks really had. The 20/20 graphic (which was supposed to be an exact copy) of the marks made them look like they were deep poc marks. Their graphic wasn't even close. My next letter is going to be to Walters and her 20/20 show producers, telling them what totally incompetent journalists they have now been revealed to be. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 19. "Autopsy Description Of Marks" Posted by JR on 15:21:09 4/30/2001 On the left lateral aspect of the lower back, approximately sixteen and one-quarter inches and seventeen and one-half inches below the level of the top of the head are two dried rust colored to slightly purple abrasions. The more superior of the two measures one-eighth by one-sixteenth of an inch and the more inferior measures three-sixteenths by one-eighth of an inch. There is no surrounding contusion identified. On posterior aspect of the left lower leg, almost in the midline, approximately 4 inches above the level of the heel are two small scratch-like abrasions which are dried and rust colored. They measure one-sixteenth by less than one-sixteenth of an inch and one-eighth by less than one-sixteenth of an inch respectively. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 21. "Well there it is!" Posted by Holly on 15:34:47 4/30/2001 The intruder is a VAMPIRE. Great work Cutter. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 22. "not a vampire" Posted by Edie Pratt on 15:38:06 4/30/2001 unless he was INVITED IN. That's the way the lore goes, no self respecting vampire would intrude, the victim must invite him. Sorry Cutter, back to the drawing board:-) or figure out which vampire is a personal friend of the Ramsey's... [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 23. "I thought" Posted by Watching you on 15:45:28 4/30/2001 vampires were nocturnal fellas, not late afternooners. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 24. "gets dark early, WY" Posted by Edie Pratt on 15:48:14 4/30/2001 in CO in the winter it gets dark around 4:30. Plenty of time for the vampire to get up, throw on yesterday's cape, and swoooooop. Now, who let that sucker in? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 41. "Oh, Edie!" Posted by Jessa Ash on 18:52:09 4/30/2001 You crack me up! Yesterday's cape...I love it! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 36. "Yeh," Posted by Holly on 18:12:35 4/30/2001 What was that black satin thing they found in the basement? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 25. "I wish" Posted by driver on 16:13:21 4/30/2001 Dunvegan gould get a picture of Patsy when her fangs are out. Phatzee certainly could play the role.. and, lord knows, she is absolutely bats. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 26. "Watch it Driver" Posted by JR on 16:19:20 4/30/2001 You'll be sued for liable, slander etc., ;-\ [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 27. "Cutter" Posted by JR on 16:42:58 4/30/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:42:58, 4/30/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 16:40:51, 4/30/2001 I can't tell for sure, but it appears the locks on the windows are at the right and center of the frame. Can you verify this? Reposting this here because: IRMI p 27 pp 7 Each window had four panes, and Fleet White, having been down there earlier, pointed out the baseball-sized hole in the upper left pane of the middle window. "Damn it, I had to break that," John Ramsey said, adding that it had happened the previous summer when he kicked in the window to get into the house after locking himself out. Should have fixed it then, he noted, tapping his forehead. The window was closed but unlatched. IMO it isn't any more expensive to call a locksmith to open the door and re-key it than it would be to replace a window - especially one that is non-standard in size. How did the perp unlock the window or are we going to be told it was also left unlocked? Corrected for where the locks appear to be. Cutter never mind - the middle window opens backwards from the window on the left. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 28. "Window....." Posted by rose on 16:57:17 4/30/2001 The window Smitt crawled into is a replacement window put in after the murder. Does anyone have a picture of the window that was in place when the murder occurred? Did not the original window swing out from bottom to top? Would have made it harder to climb into. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 29. "The window" Posted by JR on 17:03:18 4/30/2001 Ruthee's basement link isn't working. Anyone else know where there might be pictures of the actual window? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 30. "rose" Posted by Pope38 on 17:13:01 4/30/2001 there is a window picture at maketoast that shows a very different window then the one in Lou's pictures. it opens from the bottom and swings up. can someone with more talent bring it over please? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 31. "heh, someone" Posted by Watching you on 17:20:49 4/30/2001 else is having quite a time trying to explain the window thing. Gawdamighty, talk about spinning. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 32. "Cutter" Posted by austingirl on 17:33:38 4/30/2001 Great post. Thank you. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 33. "The Window" Posted by JR on 17:49:43 4/30/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 17:49:43, 4/30/2001 http://www.maketoast.com/index3.htm Here is what is alleged to be the real window which makes my question imprtant once again - If the top left pane was broken - how did the window get unlocked or are we suppose to believe it wasn't ever locked? Edited to say - this is confusing - the site says "A window found open in the basement of the Ramsey home." [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 37. "Different window-" Posted by LurkerXIV on 18:36:40 4/30/2001 This is in another part of the basement. It's the "window to nowhere"...just a concrete wall betw. new and old parts of house (If I remember correctly). [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 34. "JR" Posted by Nedthan Johns on 17:57:56 4/30/2001 The window at milk toast, does not appear to be the same window Smit came through this morning, because I remember shelves to the right of it [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 35. "Ned" Posted by JR on 18:09:07 4/30/2001 Read through the posts and check out some of the sites - there has been speculation that the window was replaced. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 40. "Excellent Photos" Posted by Ginja on 18:45:19 4/30/2001 Great job to everyone who captured the photos here and at Websleuths. The police took into evidence the windows, the grate and the door in the back that had the pry marks. They replaced everything with new materials. After the cops finished their 'first' investigation of the house (10 days), Bynum went in and repainted the entire house top to bottom. New carpet was put in, but I'm not sure if that was throughout the house or just in the bedrooms where the cops cut the carpet up. If memory serves me correctly (from all the news programs of this crime), there were two questionable windows: (1) the well window, which was broken, and (2) an open window in another room. Window (2) had nails sticking out all along the window frame. Anyone trying to get through that would have scratched the hell out of themselves (or clothes). It was under that window where the scuff mark was left. That scuff mark was way out in East Cupcakeland. If someone scuffs the wall in getting out, the mark would be under the window. This mark was way over to the left. Why would an intruder swing his leg out to the left? Also as regards this window (2), if I'm not mistaken, this doesn't go out to the outdoors. It goes out into a crawl space between the walls of the foundation (between the new building and the original structure). Unless there were two open windows. Those marks really bother me. What the hell are they? Maybe I should put my glasses on and look at them again. They don't look like scratches; they don't look like abrasions. Although the fact they were described as rust to purple colored seems more like a bruise/contusion. If they are contusions, color makes all the difference in the world. Only thing is..I don't know what the difference is. :-) That is, I couldn't tell if the color meant it was an old bruise or a new one. That the wounds range in color could very well indicate they were effected at different times...not necessarily the night of the murder. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 38. "I think the" Posted by Holly on 18:38:15 4/30/2001 window on Maketoast is from a different room in the basement. It's the one that maybe JR closed. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 39. "oh, THAT window" Posted by Edie Pratt on 18:41:21 4/30/2001 the one that took FORTY MINUTES to close. Got it:-) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 43. "And the band played on..." Posted by Cutter on 19:02:47 4/30/2001 I doubt Frank (MaskedMan) Coffman will have a problem with me quoting him here off WS. He only complains when I misquote him. (or so he says I do...LOL) -- His post below shows Lou Smit has inadvertantly tightened the screw on the Ramseys, as even their past supporters head for the life boats... I take my hat off to Frank for being honest enough to admit the new evidence totally contradicts his previous position on this matter. MaskedMan 30-Apr-01, 03:20 PM (CST) 49. "distance between the marks" I'm not sure what caused the two marks on JonBenet's back, but the marks do look somewhat rectangular (Steve Thomas calls them "rectangular"). I think Cutter is correct that the marks don't seem to be in perfect alignment. The marks don't appear to line up in an exact straight line. The marks are a little off, although maybe someone can come up with an explanation for that. Last year, I saw an autopsy photo of those marks, but I didn't measure the marks or put a ruler under them. This morning, I video taped the "Today" show and then I replayed the tape, pausing it on the photo of the marks. As I measure the distance between the two marks (using the metric ruler in the picture), the two marks are less than 2.9 centimeters apart (in their inner aspect). The prongs of an Air Taser stun gun, however, are 3.4 centimeters apart (between their inner edges). So, the marks on JonBenet's back appear to be too close together to match up with the prongs of the Air Taser. I don't see how prongs, which are 3.4 centimeters apart, can cause marks which are only 2.9 centimeters apart. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 46. "The inner aspect only counts" Posted by Holly on 19:23:13 4/30/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 19:23:13, 4/30/2001 if you took the measurement from the stun gun from the inner aspect of the metal prongs. Look at a metric ruler. You are talking between 2.9 and 3.3 and that is not much of a difference, especially if the skin bulged downward as it was pressed into the back. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 42. "Another look....." Posted by rose on 19:02:24 4/30/2001 Will you all take another look at the picture of the supposed stun gun marks? Does it look like there is yellow brusing(sp) around the area to you? It is just as possible that someone whacked JB with the yarn loom and made those wounds. Look at Ruthies web page. she produced wounds that looked just like those shown in autopsy picture. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 44. "Mr Holly and our fave" Posted by Holly on 19:17:31 4/30/2001 computer geek Kit, just measured the marks on some program and the marks are between 3.3 and 3.4 centimeters apart. Exactly like an Air Taser. Also a line drawn between any two points will ALWAYS be a straight line. Just like lines drawn between any three points will always equal a triangle. Mr Holly does say that flesh would prolly cause a slight distortion between the marks, and make the marks not necessarily exact because flesh is pliable. Mr Holly therefore concludes, that a stun gun cannot be ruled out, if the abrasions are consistent with stun gun injury. I guess the pig will reveal that to be the case. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 45. "And another thing -" Posted by Holly on 19:19:49 4/30/2001 Weren't these marks described as DRY abrasions? As in healed over or OLD? So maybe someone stun gunned her on, say, the 23rd. Don't panic. Just a thought. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 47. "It's too sad" Posted by mary99 on 19:38:47 4/30/2001 but yes, I was thinking that might be the case. Isn't the single mark at her jawline more burned-in looking? That poor kid, didn't she spend most of Christmas Day in bed? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 48. "Holly" Posted by Cutter on 19:54:41 4/30/2001 Mr. Holly needs to use a good graphics program like Paint Shop Pro, or Adobe Photo Shop and follow my instructions in the original thread post. When he does, there will be only one conclusion, the marks are 2.8 - 2.9 centimeters apart. This dimension has been verified by two additional sources so far. Additionally Mr. Holly should take a close look at the rectangular aspect of the larger mark in relation to the smaller mark, as it is over a centimeter in misalignment from what would have been produced by the fixed prongs on the stun gun. Tomorrow, graphics will be posted that show exactly how those marks could never have been produced by an Air Taser. The stun gun theory is as dead as yesterday's fish. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 51. "Also Cutter - " Posted by Holly on 20:14:19 4/30/2001 prongs are fixed, but not flexible flesh. I don't see rectangle, but when someone showed an artist's re-creation of the marks I thought they looked rectangular. How are the prong ends of the stun gun shaped? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 50. "Cutter." Posted by Holly on 20:06:05 4/30/2001 They used Adobe photo shop. Maybe I can email you the file they created. Both of them came up with the same result. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 49. "Dr. Wecht" Posted by austingirl on 19:57:29 4/30/2001 Dr. Wecht also stated just now on Geraldo that there is no evidence of a stun gun being used. And that all the other pathologists agree as they all agree that JB had chronic inflammation in her vagina. ( this means she was being sexually abused prior to that night for you RST people) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 54. "Cyril Wecht" Posted by Holly on 04:49:01 5/01/2001 never looked at the body. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 58. "Neither did Lou Smit" Posted by LurkerXIV on 09:09:15 5/01/2001 who came on the scene weeks into the investigation. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 52. "Mark measurements" Posted by rachel on 21:58:19 4/30/2001 Thanks, Cutter! Good find. I have to say that I concur with you and Masked Man on the measurement between the inside of the marks on JonBenet's body. I took the picture, enlarged it in a program called ACDsee, and did some measurements. I found the distance to be 2.9 cm. I really don't see how this can be disputed. It rules that Taser right out of the question. Again, great job and thanks to CGrrl, too!! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 53. "curling iron...." Posted by rose on 00:56:52 5/01/2001 Could these burn looking marks be caused by the tip of a curling iron? There seems to be a pattern or design inside the marks. Do you see the dots that almostlook like a flower design? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 55. "rose" Posted by rachel on 05:12:27 5/01/2001 Yes! I blew the pic up and it does look like a pattern to me. I wondered if it was snap, or a button, or something. However, it might just be that a scab forms patterns like snowflakes. I think Cyril Wecht looked at the body by reading and interpreting what Meyer wrote, much as we all are/do. Only difference is that he is extremely qualified to form his opinion of what Meyer wrote, that his eyes saw. I really respect Wecht. I don't agree about with form of asphyxia, but I sure stand open to have egg on MY face. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 59. "Yes, rachel" Posted by LurkerXIV on 09:14:13 5/01/2001 Renowned forensic pathologist Werner Spitz has said that the mark on her cheek is from lying on an object like a snap or a button. Or an earring? What size and shape were the earrings Patsy wore to the Whites' party? I'm sure there are photos available, and BPD has them. Smit's biggest problem is that once he was discovered to be the Hairless Mole, he was no longer privy to much of the evidence. The BPD has much much more that Lou was unable to steal. They are holding their cards close to the vest. Lou, and the Ramseys, are lousy poker players. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 56. "Cutter" Posted by A.K. on 05:47:27 5/01/2001 Thanks for all your excellent work. You don't miss a trick. [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 57. "Air Taser Expert Speaks" Posted by LurkerXIV on 09:07:42 5/01/2001 ..and obliterates Lou's theory: 19. "MSNBC" Posted by Scully on 08:58:44 5/01/2001 NOTE: This message was last edited 08:58:44, 5/01/2001 A reporter just interviewed a man named "Tuttle" from Taser International, the manufacturer of the Taser gun. He held the taser gun against his forearm and the electrical charge was so uncomfortable that he had to withdraw his forearm in a hurry. He said that the Taser gun leaves NO MARKS...he proved this by demonstrating that the taser left some pink blotches that resulted from the Taser coming in contact with his forearm. He said the Taser DOES NOT INCAPACITATE an individual. Rather, it is the painful, uncomfortable electrical charge that causes an individual to do anything possible to scramble away from the instrument. He also said that his company was contacted by authorities for a demonstration early in the JBR investigation, and it is his opinion then and now that the Taser was not responsible for the marks left on the torso of JBR. (he has also seen Smit's demonstration of the taser on the pig) [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 60. "Lurker" Posted by JR on 09:54:10 5/01/2001 Thanks for posting this - I can't get the show! [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ] 61. "Isn't it possible..." Posted by Phantom on 12:54:50 5/01/2001 That if a taser or stun gun or whatever there is like that, could leave different distance marks if the skin or person was twisted in some way, and/or that the person with the taser gun pushed the skin closer, like a pinch? [ REMOVE ] [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]